WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:46:56

1
00:00:21.899 --> 00:00:24.660
Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:30.059
So, we're back, and we're in one of your favourite seasons, I

3
00:00:30.059 --> 00:00:31.980
think, of Star Trek, am I right?

4
00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:33.179
If not your favourite season.

5
00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:37.200
One of my favourite seasons of Star Trek of all time, one of my

6
00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.679
favourite genres of all time, horror horror.

7
00:00:40.740 --> 00:00:42.600
This should be an absolute banger for me.

8
00:00:42.659 --> 00:00:46.859
So we're right at the end of Deep Size 9 series five.

9
00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:51.420
It's episode 24 and it's called Empoc Noor.

10
00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:56.820
And it's part of the honoured tradition of using our normal sets

11
00:00:56.820 --> 00:01:00.179
to represent somewhere else by turning the lights down.

12
00:01:00.299 --> 00:01:01.380
And...

13
00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:02.939
We have seen a bit of that already, haven't we?

14
00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.719
Doomsday machine. absolutely.

15
00:01:06.780 --> 00:01:11.040
Strange new worlds with the fabulous plants everywhere in the

16
00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:12.000
fairy tale kingdom.

17
00:01:12.060 --> 00:01:16.260
Well, that was still the enterprise, but I'm thinking of all those

18
00:01:16.260 --> 00:01:23.459
who wander, which is the 2nd last episode of series one, where the

19
00:01:23.459 --> 00:01:26.819
sets stand in for whatever that chip is that's crashed with a gone

20
00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:27.659
on board.

21
00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:33.420
So it is a thing that the show does fairly regularly, but this is

22
00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:35.700
obviously Deep Space 9's 1st go at it.

23
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:37.200
Unbelievably, though.

24
00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:41.819
We returned to Empoc Nor in series 7 and that's where Dukata set

25
00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:43.500
up his loony, but you're on Cole.

26
00:01:43.500 --> 00:01:44.579
Yeah, that's right.

27
00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:48.120
In fact, I thought that that was what we were talking about. and

28
00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:50.700
I'd forgotten this one, I think a bit.

29
00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:54.060
So I'm going to lay my cards on the table.

30
00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:58.560
I think this was okay. and there are some bits in it that I liked

31
00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:04.680
a lot, but I think it suffered a bit from the fact that it's part

32
00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:07.439
of a weekly show.

33
00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:14.639
And what that means is I don't think it has enough time, given

34
00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:17.759
everything else it has to do, to build up atmosphere.

35
00:02:17.819 --> 00:02:21.120
So I don't think it's as suspenseful and atmospheric as it could

36
00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:22.919
be, although it is quite suspenseful.

37
00:02:22.979 --> 00:02:28.080
And I think it absolutely does a massive thing and then has no

38
00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:30.060
consequences at all for it.

39
00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:32.879
And that's kind of a bit dumb, I think.

40
00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:37.620
This is one where way back in the day when I wrote reviews for

41
00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:39.960
every single Star Trek episode on Docahoe reviews.

42
00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:41.340
Go check it out.

43
00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:44.879
I do plug in very often on here, so, you know, why not?

44
00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.819
And I really liked it back in the day.

45
00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:51.900
And it's one that sort of haemorrhaged interest for me over time.

46
00:02:51.900 --> 00:02:55.800
And I don't know whether that's more exposure to you watching DS9

47
00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:59.340
you know, me figuring all these episodes were gritty drama of the

48
00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:02.460
highest order and you, you know, reminded me that it's all a big

49
00:03:02.460 --> 00:03:06.300
fast or soap, soap in particular.

50
00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:11.099
But I do think on this watch, two-thirds of this, I think, works

51
00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:16.500
really quite well as just a very simple horror story set in a

52
00:03:16.500 --> 00:03:18.120
spooky setting with people dying.

53
00:03:18.180 --> 00:03:22.860
And then it falls off a cliff in the last 3rd where poor Andy

54
00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:27.539
Robinson is asked to play serial killer for the 900th time in his

55
00:03:27.539 --> 00:03:32.639
career and makes some unusual acting choices when he does.

56
00:03:32.699 --> 00:03:36.300
It's almost sort of a camp performance, which he normally does as

57
00:03:36.300 --> 00:03:38.939
Garrick, and that works fine because he's supposed to be funny.

58
00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.180
But here he's supposed to be scary and with some of the lines that

59
00:03:42.180 --> 00:03:46.680
he gets, you know, Nathan, you have no idea how badly I want to

60
00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:47.460
kill you right now.

61
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.699
You know, it's all a bit bizarre that last third.

62
00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:51.960
Yeah, yeah.

63
00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:53.580
I think it doesn't work.

64
00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.379
Just really because Garrett goes mad for space reasons.

65
00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.159
And once that happens, you know, like he picks up a bit of chewing

66
00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:03.419
gum off the...

67
00:04:03.419 --> 00:04:06.060
I thought it was plastic scene.

68
00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:07.500
Blue plaster scene.

69
00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:10.919
I think someone stuck their gum, one of those Cardassian soldiers

70
00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:16.379
stuck his gum on the stairway, the spiral staircase, and he picked

71
00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:21.360
it up, and then he, it's the crazy xenophobe drug that makes him

72
00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:21.959
go crazy.

73
00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:25.800
Oh, I thought you just had an aversion to touching people's gum

74
00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:28.980
and that turned into a serial killer from that point on.

75
00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:29.939
That can happen.

76
00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.000
But like, I just think that that's dumb.

77
00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:34.319
So what's the point of that?

78
00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:39.360
And in a way, a version of this where Garrett gets a little bit

79
00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:45.060
too excited about killing the Cardassian soldiers might have been

80
00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:47.639
a bit more interesting and we'll get there in time.

81
00:04:47.699 --> 00:04:52.019
In a way this is sort of rightly and does want to say something

82
00:04:52.019 --> 00:04:53.639
about the 2 characters.

83
00:04:53.699 --> 00:04:59.579
O'Brien and Garak, but DS9 gets in the way.

84
00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:02.519
Or really, the need to do a Star Trek episode gets in the way of

85
00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:03.420
that, I think.

86
00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.839
I mean, DS9 does have a good track record of same thing about his

87
00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:09.839
characters in its sort of throwaway episodes like this.

88
00:05:09.899 --> 00:05:14.220
But I thought the only real point this was trying to make was the

89
00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:16.860
line that O'Brien has in the climax, which is, you know, you're

90
00:05:16.860 --> 00:05:17.160
right.

91
00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:18.779
I'm not a soldier.

92
00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:19.740
I'm an engineer.

93
00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:23.040
And I was like, okay, is that the point we've been coming up?

94
00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:25.680
We sort of knew that at the start of the episode.

95
00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:26.639
But, yeah.

96
00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:29.459
I mean, it is it is giving us a bit more background as well.

97
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:34.139
I learned something interesting reading the Deep Space 9 companion

98
00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:36.959
which I read a little bit earlier today, that there was a 1st

99
00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:40.680
draft of this story, and I didn't realise the actors got to read

100
00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:45.779
the 1st drafts, but Andy Robinson read it and went to Ira Bear and

101
00:05:45.779 --> 00:05:47.160
said, I won't, I'm not doing this.

102
00:05:47.220 --> 00:05:48.180
I won't do this.

103
00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.220
And so it was this script with all the character stuff taken out

104
00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:58.199
and Garak was just basically, you know, a berserker killer going

105
00:05:58.199 --> 00:05:59.699
around killing everybody.

106
00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:02.339
I don't even think there was the Kardashians in the tube.

107
00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:04.379
It was just Garak had gone mad.

108
00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:04.800
Yeah.

109
00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:08.160
And he was like, I can't play. took one look at the script and

110
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:09.120
said, no, we won't do that.

111
00:06:09.180 --> 00:06:12.540
And that's why they added all of that later character stuff in.

112
00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.120
But he was still a little bit uneasy.

113
00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.500
In the same way that he's uneasy when they do the parallel

114
00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:23.579
universe episodes, because he considers Garak to be quite a

115
00:06:23.579 --> 00:06:27.240
multidimensional character with lots of interesting facets to

116
00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:27.899
him.

117
00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:31.860
And this and the parallel universe, Carac.

118
00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:33.720
It's very one though, you know?

119
00:06:33.779 --> 00:06:36.540
And I'm not sure he knows how to play that note.

120
00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:38.699
Yeah, yeah.

121
00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:42.180
And the O'Brien stuff is the backstory stuff that we get for

122
00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:45.300
O'Brien in The Wounded, which we've done as well.

123
00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:49.860
So Setlick 3, do you remember he says, you know, um, I don't hate

124
00:06:49.860 --> 00:06:50.939
you.

125
00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:52.800
I hate what I became because of you.

126
00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:55.740
And so all of that stuff about war.

127
00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.519
Here, it's clearly a little bit of kind of decoration and stuff

128
00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:01.680
and it gives Garak something to talk about.

129
00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:05.160
But it doesn't really go anywhere, I think.

130
00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:10.259
And the episode deliberately avoids, I think, saying anything

131
00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:14.040
about O'Brien as a soldier, because I think he's just not that

132
00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:14.339
anymore.

133
00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:19.319
The original pitch for this was that it was Garak and Worf on an

134
00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:23.339
obsidian order ship and he got and it was sort of like a cat and

135
00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:24.959
mouse game with them going through the ship.

136
00:07:25.019 --> 00:07:28.199
But the idea of this wasn't a character piece.

137
00:07:28.259 --> 00:07:31.560
The idea of this was a horror episode of D-space 9.

138
00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:35.579
And it was pitched by your friend of mine, Brian Fuller, who

139
00:07:35.579 --> 00:07:38.879
pitched earlier in the season, the Darkness in the Light, which is

140
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:43.259
another horror themed episode with Kira's friend being bumped off

141
00:07:43.259 --> 00:07:44.459
by a serial killer.

142
00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:45.480
Fabulous episode.

143
00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:48.540
What this episode does have.

144
00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:50.399
And I've recently been watching...

145
00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.120
You won't know of this, but I'm going to educate you now.

146
00:07:54.180 --> 00:07:59.100
Babylon 5 and I'm just about halfway through the 2nd series and

147
00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:00.540
struggling immensely with it.

148
00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:05.220
But what both Babylon 5 and NPOC Nor have in common is Mike

149
00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:06.120
Vajar.

150
00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:10.259
And I think he's a really good director of science fiction.

151
00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:17.459
And if this is a bit limp and thin in both story and character, it

152
00:08:17.459 --> 00:08:18.779
does have a lot of atmosphere.

153
00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:20.160
I think he likes this really well.

154
00:08:20.220 --> 00:08:23.339
I think the points where it's supposed to scare you.

155
00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:26.100
So the points where people die, they're really affected.

156
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.160
There's one really horrific moment where someone has their neck

157
00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.460
snapped and you hear the noise and everything and the poor kid's

158
00:08:32.460 --> 00:08:33.299
screaming his head off.

159
00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:34.620
Yeah.

160
00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:38.700
So I think, I think in terms of a television production, this

161
00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:42.659
actually is above average, the Xbox 9.

162
00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:44.580
Yeah, I would say, too, that J.

163
00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:47.159
Chataway does a very good job creating the atmosphere, too.

164
00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:49.320
Enough a bit of Joe Chatterway, though.

165
00:08:49.379 --> 00:08:50.220
I do.

166
00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:51.059
I think he's very good.

167
00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:55.440
And I did notice that he was on the credits before I watched it

168
00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.740
and then just listening to how he does the music is a little bit

169
00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:02.940
reminiscent of the music in Alien, which is obviously the place to

170
00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:05.399
go for sort of scary things happening in Spain.

171
00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:07.559
And I think there are some good beats.

172
00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:10.559
And I have to say, we're going to open with a comedy scene at the

173
00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.019
beginning, which I think is absolutely magnificent.

174
00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:14.700
So good.

175
00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:15.480
So good.

176
00:09:15.539 --> 00:09:19.320
But we'll talk about how that undermines, I think, what we're

177
00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:20.700
trying to do on the show.

178
00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:30.000
But I think that because this is 90s trek and even at series 5 of

179
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:34.379
Deep Space 9, this isn't doing serialisation in the same

180
00:09:34.379 --> 00:09:38.460
thoroughgoing way that even enterprise series 4 will do.

181
00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:43.860
And certainly that Battlestar Galactica will do. or even the show

182
00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:45.299
itself in later in the run.

183
00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:48.720
Interestingly, I think this is the tipping point, though, because

184
00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.679
in the next episode is in the cars, which has the B plot about Kai

185
00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:55.259
Wynn coming to the station and meeting with Weyoon.

186
00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.320
Then it's the season finale, and then it's the 6th episode arc.

187
00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:02.460
So this is like this is like the full stop where DS9 goes from

188
00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:06.480
being, you know, standalones with loose serialisation to being a

189
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:08.399
properly serialised show.

190
00:10:08.460 --> 00:10:08.639
Yeah.

191
00:10:08.700 --> 00:10:09.299
Yeah.

192
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:12.299
Yeah, and I think this offers as a result of it.

193
00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:16.799
And we can talk about whether the show's wrong to attempt that

194
00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:21.120
given that it can't follow up on the consequences or is it okay?

195
00:10:21.179 --> 00:10:22.500
And I'm not quite sure.

196
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.279
I kind of think we'd be slightly poorer without this, but I do

197
00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:30.360
think that there is a problem where it just has no consequences at

198
00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:30.600
all.

199
00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.299
Rocks and shoals accepted.

200
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.179
Well, the course of this episode is already come up in an episode

201
00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:37.080
that we've covered.

202
00:10:37.139 --> 00:10:40.379
And it's not even a big moment, but it's a very funny scene, isn't

203
00:10:40.379 --> 00:10:40.559
it?

204
00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:41.700
where Nog won't walk.

205
00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:45.600
He won't walk in front of Garak, just because they do remember, and

206
00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.840
that's what I do like about the DSI writers, and they'll pepper it

207
00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:49.559
with little lines.

208
00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:54.179
Yeah, they've kind of put Nog and Garak together in a scene.

209
00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.120
They know that they have to adjust it so they make the scene be

210
00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:57.539
about that.

211
00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.259
I think that's really good, but he's basically murdered someone

212
00:11:01.259 --> 00:11:04.200
and we're all fine with that next week.

213
00:11:04.259 --> 00:11:05.279
It says to knock at the end.

214
00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:06.059
Cadets?

215
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:07.620
There may be hope for you yet.

216
00:11:10.379 --> 00:11:12.059
One last thing before we go in then.

217
00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:16.379
And that is um, the, there is no B plot in this episode, which I

218
00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:20.879
think is a very smart idea because can you imagine going from this

219
00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.240
darkened space station to people being killed to say quark

220
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.600
attempting to make a sex program of Kira every 5 minutes?

221
00:11:27.659 --> 00:11:30.059
It would kill the mood completely, wouldn't it?

222
00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:31.799
So I think that's a savvy move.

223
00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:34.080
But it is kind of unusual.

224
00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:37.740
I think you could probably count on 2 hands how many DSI episodes

225
00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:39.179
does not have subplots in it.

226
00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.019
And this is one of them, but because it is horror movie of the

227
00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:43.200
week.

228
00:11:43.259 --> 00:11:43.980
It's going for that.

229
00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:47.399
I mean, part of the reason they have a B plot is that everyone has

230
00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:50.460
to have a go, you know, like everyone has to be in the episode

231
00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:52.679
except under very special circumstances.

232
00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.039
And so we do have that opening scene where a whole heap of people

233
00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.740
are in it that aren't in the rest of the episode at all.

234
00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:02.279
And I think that's a great scene, but I do think that it eats up

235
00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.340
valuable time that could if he'd spent building atmosphere.

236
00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:09.120
And it does the trek thing of just having to show us every step of

237
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:09.720
the way.

238
00:12:09.779 --> 00:12:13.559
We can't start with them arriving on Empoc Nor, for instance, and

239
00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.320
then learning why they were there later, which I think would have

240
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:17.159
worked better.

241
00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:21.480
You know, we have to have a comedy scene so that um, Terry and uh

242
00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:23.399
Nanak get their paycheque this week.

243
00:12:23.460 --> 00:12:28.799
I will say one thing I noticed was that those actors have learned

244
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:32.700
how to make the one line they've got in the episode count for

245
00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:36.539
something because the bit in Cisco's office where Odo goes.

246
00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.120
Well, I suppose we could just start stolt gold to cut if he's got

247
00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:40.980
any spare manifolds lying around.

248
00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.240
That's your one line for this entire episode and you've made it

249
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:45.720
very funny.

250
00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:46.919
Thank you, Renee.

251
00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:47.399
Yeah.

252
00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:48.120
Yeah.

253
00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.639
Well, let's go into that because I think that opening seat is

254
00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:51.059
really great.

255
00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:52.320
Amazing.

256
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:53.039
I count in?

257
00:12:53.100 --> 00:12:53.759
Yes.

258
00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:54.419
All right.

259
00:12:54.600 --> 00:13:00.600
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

260
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.500
Yeah, holy crap, this is so funny.

261
00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:09.419
And so it's it's Quark's bar and it's completely deserted except

262
00:13:09.419 --> 00:13:10.440
for Nog.

263
00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:11.340
And so...

264
00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:12.779
I've got more for there, obviously.

265
00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:13.860
Nog Morn.

266
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:15.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

267
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:15.600
Yeah.

268
00:13:15.659 --> 00:13:18.299
But, and they notice that no one's here.

269
00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:23.580
And then he goes, let me get your order before, you know, the

270
00:13:23.580 --> 00:13:25.559
noise starts and you all want to go.

271
00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:27.000
And then the noise, what was that?

272
00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:29.039
And then what was what?

273
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.980
Is he slide, but he's shouting it over the noise?

274
00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:34.440
It's just...

275
00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:34.919
Can I tell you?

276
00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:38.399
I stayed in a hotel once, I had drilling like that going on all

277
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:39.419
day and all night.

278
00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.480
It is agonising.

279
00:13:42.539 --> 00:13:46.320
Terry giving the line, like when they got the Klingon restaurant

280
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.399
and Terry giving the line, it would be quieter. perfectly.

281
00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:52.080
Not playing it as a joke.

282
00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:53.100
Do you know what I mean?

283
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.679
Just saying it as a line and letting the line be funny?

284
00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:56.340
is really good.

285
00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:59.759
Did you notice as well the reference to the Tillerman froth, which

286
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:01.559
is from a T.R.?

287
00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:02.940
They love...

288
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.039
That's one of the drinks in Troubles of Triples that they talk

289
00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:05.220
about.

290
00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:08.159
I'll have a Teleman froth, please.

291
00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.080
That's brilliant.

292
00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:12.539
I think that might be wrong more.

293
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.220
He loves throwing in TRX references.

294
00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:15.419
Oh, God.

295
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.480
Nathan, I don't know why, but I just love cameras going into

296
00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.460
Jeffrey's tubes like this.

297
00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:21.539
Yeah, yeah.

298
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.139
Oh, this is this is lovely. don't you think?

299
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:29.159
So Knox watching O'Brien do all the work and he's passing into his

300
00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.860
tools and then eventually he gets to a point where he just gives

301
00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:34.559
him the tool that he knows he's going to expect.

302
00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:36.419
And he's like, well, I've been paying attention, sir.

303
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.679
Yeah, I think that's probably good, and it is sort of needed

304
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:45.659
because then it explains why he's on the thing, and it reminds us

305
00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:48.779
of the relationship between the 2 of them, which makes the ending

306
00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:52.440
land, but I still can't help thinking that it's a better episode

307
00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.500
if it opens with the writer on the station.

308
00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.320
Where the smoke comes out.

309
00:14:58.379 --> 00:15:01.440
The whole bloody Jeffrey Stew fills with smoke.

310
00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:04.440
I mean, that dry ice is going right down their mouths.

311
00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:06.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

312
00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:11.759
And so here we have Avery and Renee doing their bit, you know, and

313
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:15.840
I just think that it takes too long to get started, don't you

314
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:16.019
think?

315
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.879
Well, we don't reach in Portland until about 5 minutes after the

316
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.139
title music, don't we?

317
00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:23.399
So it's about 10 minutes into the episode.

318
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.740
I don't think we need it.

319
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:29.159
I think we can do all of this on Empok Nor, but because this is

320
00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.740
Star Trek in the 90s, it almost never does that.

321
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.340
Like it almost never starts in the middle and then just lets it

322
00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:39.960
lets us kind of fills in the gaps with Klover Ryan.

323
00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:42.059
They tried to tie it into the ark.

324
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.159
Has there been any dominion activity in the area?

325
00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:45.240
No, I don't think so, no.

326
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:53.340
But the booby trapping facility before abandoning it.

327
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.639
I would not be... for this mission.

328
00:15:56.700 --> 00:15:57.000
Would you?

329
00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:57.840
It does.

330
00:15:57.899 --> 00:15:58.860
No, no, it does.

331
00:15:58.919 --> 00:15:59.340
Yeah.

332
00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:00.720
Oh, and here we go.

333
00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:03.539
We're going to get all the red shirts coming in now. basically

334
00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:06.960
dead, dead, dead, and dead and dead.

335
00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:07.860
Yeah.

336
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:14.399
So, I think that's another point against it.

337
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.740
They can't kill a regular.

338
00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:18.419
They can kill a regular.

339
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.840
I mean, they can put them in serious danger, but yes.

340
00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:24.240
Well, yeah, but they can't.

341
00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:29.940
And I wonder what the version of this is like where Garrett gets

342
00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:30.960
killed at the end.

343
00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.220
What happens there?

344
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:34.679
Like, what if that was how it ended?

345
00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:36.360
And you couldn't do it.

346
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:37.200
The show ends.

347
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.039
You don't have Gary.

348
00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:39.960
Yeah, for the last 2 years.

349
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:42.000
And that would be no good at all.

350
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.299
So here are our red shirts.

351
00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:51.000
I like I like the Bolian, and I like the fella who is going for

352
00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.559
the Cardassian insignia.

353
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:54.659
But that's all we learn about him.

354
00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:00.000
Yeah, so Bokta is the bowling who has a very baggy, bald wig.

355
00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:02.519
Like, look how baggy he is.

356
00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:04.859
I'm claustrophobic.

357
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:06.059
Give me some air now.

358
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.180
The actor is not going to shave his head.

359
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.059
He's just going to wear a big bag on his head.

360
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.519
The 2 security people. are their names?

361
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:22.019
Uh, so Amaro is this bald guy who is a bit of a shithead and the

362
00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:23.519
woman is called Stoltzoff.

363
00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:25.799
I don't really care about those two.

364
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.299
I was quite happy when they both died.

365
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:30.480
Yeah, yeah, and Pichetti's the sort of...

366
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.460
I do feel that is the way with a horror movie, right?

367
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:33.839
It's a, you said more group of characters.

368
00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:35.160
Some you like and some you don't.

369
00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:38.279
And sort of, you're rooting for certain people to be bumped off.

370
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:41.759
I think there's definitely a scene where they make Amaro

371
00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:46.619
unlikeable so that you can cheer when he dies, but again, they're

372
00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:50.160
also thin and like they're going to kill all of them.

373
00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:54.059
Like, it is like, and you know it, like, you know it from the

374
00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:57.839
moment you see 4 red shirts having a conversation among them. 2nd

375
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.980
I saw that, that's DS9, slightly askew hanging in space.

376
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:03.420
I'm like, they're all dead.

377
00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:07.019
Only the regulars are getting out of this.

378
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:08.160
Yeah, that's right.

379
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:09.000
That's right.

380
00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:12.119
But I think you could probably have guessed.

381
00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:15.720
Do you know what I mean if we've go, if we're going on a dangerous

382
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.440
mission with Cardassian booby traps on a station and then we

383
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.039
suddenly introduce 4 new characters, you think, well, I know why

384
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.279
they're here. you know, they're pretty much here to be killed.

385
00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:29.099
The only thing I'll say in the defence of these 4 characters.

386
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:30.420
I think they're reasonably well played.

387
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.640
They're not our usual murder she wrote day players.

388
00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:33.779
They're actually quite well active.

389
00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.859
And they are as thin as every other red shirt in Star Trek.

390
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:38.579
Yeah, yeah.

391
00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:41.400
They never really get any characterisation, do they?

392
00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:43.200
You know, the arrow is on their back.

393
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:49.319
The collector thing, like there's some very kind of crapped

394
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.960
dialogue there with O'Brien where he says we're not here to

395
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.319
indulge your collecting conscience collecting or something.

396
00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:59.519
And it's just like, come on, like, what sort of who's talks like

397
00:18:59.519 --> 00:18:59.700
that?

398
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:00.660
That's crap.

399
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.519
You could make that point in some other way.

400
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.700
Yeah, yeah.

401
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.579
Can I just say, I haven't said this for a while, but how much I

402
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:11.640
love that little guy in the spaceship kicking his way through his

403
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:12.059
face?

404
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.299
I'm not sure what he's carrying and what he's taking to that upper

405
00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:17.039
pile on, but he means it.

406
00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:20.279
I appreciate that he's going to fucking do that job.

407
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.519
It's still somehow worse than the special effect of Lister

408
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.180
painting the side of Red Dwarf from 1987.

409
00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:34.740
Well, it's them trying to do little CG people.

410
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.500
We know how well that goes when Enterprise comes along.

411
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:43.380
Uh, see our episode on um, in a mirror darkly and the landing on

412
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:43.680
the moon.

413
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.920
Now, I have to say this game, what's it called?

414
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.079
I have no idea.

415
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.839
I want to say Calto, but that's the wrong game.

416
00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:52.619
We'll go with that.

417
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:57.000
Calto is the game that we play. that's the game that Tuvok and and

418
00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:57.839
thing I play.

419
00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:00.299
Tuvok and Kess play that game.

420
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.460
I do like the fact that Nog's playing it like a frog.

421
00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:04.019
Kochra. that it.

422
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.660
He's protecting his assets, whereas Garak's going on the attack

423
00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:10.380
and he's getting a bit frustrated with him, but I will say like

424
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:14.160
every other ball game in existence, it looks very boring indeed.

425
00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:20.039
I love the line about trying to get a Ferengi to play this game

426
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:23.400
without protecting his assets is like trying to get a Klingon to

427
00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:24.900
chew with his mouth.

428
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:25.380
What?

429
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.480
That races as well, though.

430
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:32.039
But it comes from Garak, so it's kind of okay, I think.

431
00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:34.440
But it's so trivial, you know what I mean?

432
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:39.059
It's like it's not to try, you know, it's, uh, uh, it's just

433
00:20:39.059 --> 00:20:40.859
hilariously trivial, I think.

434
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:43.140
Can I say something for Colomini very quickly?

435
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.339
Yeah.

436
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.880
I just think he can turn his hand to anything, this show frozen.

437
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:48.660
Oh, he's good.

438
00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:53.099
He's got a silver bullshit in this episode that he cares about

439
00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:55.980
these idiots that he's going on the mission with and he does.

440
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:57.660
Yeah, yeah.

441
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.339
So this is, I think, Garrett coming very close to the idea that

442
00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:05.819
Julian and Miles are just having sex on the holodeck.

443
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.359
So getting dressed up as fighter pilots and they're going to have

444
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:09.660
sex.

445
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:10.319
Yeah.

446
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:16.920
Um, but, uh, so this is the set, like 3 stuff uh, that we had in

447
00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:17.460
the wounded.

448
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:19.019
That is his backstory.

449
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:21.839
Uh, that Deepstace 9 has it touched on it before?

450
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.839
Have we talked about him being in a Cardassian war much before?

451
00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:26.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

452
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.299
Because in the early seasons, there was that episode, Cardassians

453
00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:32.519
where that really...

454
00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:34.200
Well, it's about the Cardassian.

455
00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:38.279
It should have an exclamation mark and it's a musical.

456
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.900
Cardassians that were centifagial and face the prejudice of the

457
00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:45.000
Bajorans because they were just abandoned there.

458
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.619
And O'Brien and Keiko take one in for the episode and O'Brien sort

459
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:53.220
of prejudices come out for a while and Keiko calls him out in it a

460
00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:53.700
couple of times.

461
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:59.039
So we do we touch on his his racism a little bit in those early

462
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.460
seasons.

463
00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:01.019
But yeah.

464
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:01.920
So what's the story?

465
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:06.660
He was in this fight and he wasn't an engineer at this point, was

466
00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:06.900
he?

467
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.099
He was an officer, but...

468
00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:11.700
No, so he says he was a soldier and he was serving with Maxwell

469
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:13.680
from the wounded, remember?

470
00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:17.339
Something needed to be repaired in order for the ship to make the

471
00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:20.940
despisive, like the decisive shot that saved them all from the

472
00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:21.180
battle.

473
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:21.839
Is that right?

474
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:24.960
Oh, no, no, I think he just goes in there with a big gun and

475
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.599
shoots a whole bunch of people as kind of my understanding what

476
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:27.960
happened.

477
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:30.359
They don't go into a lot of detail about it, but I think he just

478
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.200
shoots a lot of people and Garak says 20, 100, you know, what was

479
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.480
it like watching the light guard in their eyes and stuff like

480
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:36.660
that?

481
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.420
And all of that is all just a bit play.

482
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:40.259
Do you know what I mean?

483
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:41.220
Like that, like what?

484
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:43.799
You know, like, it's just not very interesting.

485
00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:47.099
Well, they're just trying to hang this stuff on something then

486
00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:47.460
aren't they?

487
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:48.839
Yeah, yeah.

488
00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:53.759
So they're trying to find a way of making the conflict between

489
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:58.619
Garak and O'Brien Matter.

490
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.799
And so, and that's the other thing that, and that's the other

491
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:02.880
thing that happens earlier too.

492
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:06.539
And it happens a couple times in the episode where Garak is a

493
00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:10.140
little bit dismayed that people trust him.

494
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.619
That happens quite a few times during DS9 is wrong.

495
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:14.640
That's right.

496
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:20.039
We're 10 episodes away from um, around about 10 episodes away from

497
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:22.680
in Purgatory Shadow by Inferno's Light.

498
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:27.480
Remember where we had Martoc and Worf saying what a great hero.

499
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:31.799
Garak was. you know, overcoming his claustrophobia to save them

500
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:32.039
all.

501
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.539
He was one of the gang.

502
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:34.619
He was one of our guys.

503
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:35.579
Do you know what I mean?

504
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:37.799
And he'd been pretty much domesticated by this point.

505
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:41.579
And so there's a sense in which what this episode should be doing

506
00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:46.559
is trying to bray Matt back in again and trying to make him a

507
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:50.940
little bit more of a loose cannon, a little bit less reliable. is

508
00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:52.140
in 2 episodes time.

509
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.980
He's got no place on the station when the Dominions take over.

510
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:57.359
He's got to go with the Federation.

511
00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:00.119
So now he's just an ally. on their side.

512
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:03.420
So all of this conveniently gets forgotten.

513
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:03.960
Yeah.

514
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:04.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

515
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.859
Oh, well, he'll be quite useful in this now impending war.

516
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.559
So we'll forget about those transgressions where he murdered those

517
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:10.799
people.

518
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:15.180
Can I just say I thought the shots there?

519
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.480
So it was handheld camera work with Garak going through the

520
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.859
airlock to turn the oxygen on and the best bit of trivia I've read

521
00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:27.779
in years was that special effects, man, was like, Mike Pajar came

522
00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:30.480
up to me and said, well, we want things suspended in space because

523
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.640
he's going to turn the oxygen on and then they're going to fall to

524
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.000
the ground.

525
00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:34.680
He's like, well, you're telling me on the day?

526
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:39.539
Um, so we just went out and bought some very thin wire and hung

527
00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:42.960
some props from it and then on you dropped a lot of them.

528
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:43.920
And it works.

529
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:45.599
Oh, yeah.

530
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:48.059
I never knew that that was how they did it and I thought it was

531
00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:48.539
really good.

532
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.019
And I do think that whenever they emphasise that the gravity is

533
00:24:52.019 --> 00:24:54.720
artificial, I think we need that.

534
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:58.619
You know, like I think that's really good because that makes this

535
00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:00.960
a bit more scary because this is just home.

536
00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:03.359
Otherwise with the lights turned down, isn't it?

537
00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:06.960
And I think I think it looks too much like the station.

538
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:09.660
Like, I think that's because it is the station.

539
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:13.619
Well, yeah, I know, I know, but I think like they don't find an

540
00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:17.880
interesting new way of shooting it, whereas in strange new worlds

541
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.940
I think we were in very familiar sets, but they never felt like

542
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:21.240
that.

543
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:24.960
You know, like you never felt that you knew the bit of the ship

544
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:25.920
that we were in.

545
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:30.539
Whereas here, I mean, I'm going to make the very facetious comment

546
00:25:30.539 --> 00:25:34.799
that the set designer said about changing the carpet because the

547
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.799
biggest difference she made was that the carpet and the promenade

548
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:39.000
is all geometric shapes.

549
00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:41.400
She calls it artful in the quote.

550
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.119
And they've done what they've done they put a layer of gray carpet

551
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:45.720
over the top.

552
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:51.480
I do think there is, there is enough of a difference for me in

553
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.779
that they have cleared out, obviously, all the people, and usually

554
00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:59.160
DS9 is teeming with people, especially the promenade, and and a

555
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.319
lot of the set dressing, so it feels quite bare.

556
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.220
But yeah, you're right.

557
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.859
It looks like DS9 because it is DS9.

558
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:06.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

559
00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:09.779
But then again, you know, so we just had him pick up the chewing

560
00:26:09.779 --> 00:26:12.180
gum and now he's going to slowly go mad.

561
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:16.079
And I think until maybe halfway through the episode, Andy

562
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.980
Robinson's on fairly short territory of how to play Garak, because

563
00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:22.799
it is just Garak a little bit agitated, it's kind.

564
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:26.160
It's when he's a complete psychopath, that's when things get very

565
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:26.700
amusing.

566
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:29.400
I'm going to be doing so much quoting, you better prepare

567
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:29.880
yourself.

568
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:33.660
I love this dead Cardassian, I have to say.

569
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.980
That's not bad, is it?

570
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.700
It's really good.

571
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:36.599
It is really good.

572
00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:37.079
Yeah.

573
00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:37.619
Yeah.

574
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.579
Desiccated.

575
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:39.180
Is that the word?

576
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

577
00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:42.059
I quite like that.

578
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:45.660
We've got a thing for pichetti, look, and a little badge for

579
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:46.380
pichetti.

580
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.380
It's covered in dirt, which is flying through the air now.

581
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.700
I do like the light in it.

582
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:52.859
When they came in this room and it was all lit up from those blue

583
00:26:52.859 --> 00:26:53.339
pods.

584
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.559
Do you know what those blue pods are from, Nathan?

585
00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:56.880
No.

586
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:01.319
They are the pods created for the colonists in the thor.

587
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:02.700
Do you remember?

588
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:03.779
Oh wow.

589
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:04.619
Oh, okay.

590
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.619
Do you remember when they went in and they put B'lana and Harry

591
00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:11.099
Kim in a pair of those and yeah, yeah, all that fun ensued.

592
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:13.380
Oh, I love Aaron Eisenberg so much.

593
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:15.299
I do too.

594
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.599
Do you think the pods are there to remind us of alien as well?

595
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:21.359
Like, I know that they don't play quite that role that they play

596
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.900
an alien, but they come out of a status point, which is how aliens

597
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:25.140
start.

598
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.680
The way the camera slid in that room there alongside of me.

599
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:30.720
It's very light the way it does in aliens.

600
00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:31.500
That opening.

601
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:32.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

602
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:37.319
I mean, aliens always the thing that you go to for this stuff. goes

603
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:37.980
to it for the music.

604
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.200
This scene was well shot as well, that is so good.

605
00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:46.019
The camera so he looks out the window and then it explodes and I

606
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:49.740
love his line where he just says, that's not right, where he sees

607
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:52.440
the runabout just drifting off into space.

608
00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:53.759
He's really good.

609
00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:56.700
And then that's a great cliffhanger. the explosion.

610
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.180
They look at his face and just, you know, do an exploding light.

611
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.160
Really effective.

612
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:03.359
Yeah.

613
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.000
And I was surprised by that too.

614
00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:07.920
I thought that was really good, you know.

615
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.700
Now there's lots of talk about, oh, are you telling me there's 2

616
00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:14.220
Cardassians from the 3rd battalion loose on this station?

617
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:15.599
Oh my god, yeah.

618
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:16.259
Death to all.

619
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:17.759
That was their motto.

620
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:19.440
Oh my goodness.

621
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.279
Like, I'm really sorry.

622
00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:26.519
You guys were talking about booby trucks before you even left the

623
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:26.880
station.

624
00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:30.299
You knew you were going to be a situation of extreme Beryl.

625
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:31.920
Why are you surprised?

626
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:35.460
Although, yeah, I have to think that they weren't expecting to

627
00:28:35.460 --> 00:28:36.779
lose the runabout.

628
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:38.940
That was that was a bit of a surprise.

629
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.160
I mean, that does up the stakes as well, doesn't it?

630
00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:42.059
They can't get away now.

631
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:42.960
Look at this.

632
00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:46.619
This is where we're trying to make a Maro unlikeable.

633
00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:48.960
You know, like he's being a pissy dickhead.

634
00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:51.299
We should finally... say hello.

635
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:53.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

636
00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:55.019
Oh, we're so tough, you know.

637
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.420
So we do kind of want a Maro killed.

638
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:59.759
So we'll be happy a little bit later.

639
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:04.019
I mean, they are so coded with just one beat, aren't they?

640
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:05.519
The Bolian is a wimp.

641
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:07.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

642
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.039
The one guy just wants the insignia.

643
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:13.319
Like you said, Amara's an asshole.

644
00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:15.059
Yeah, yeah.

645
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:15.660
Yeah.

646
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.839
So now we're getting an explanation.

647
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.180
Yeah, see, is this still too lit?

648
00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:21.839
don't know.

649
00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:24.900
Does he have to, you know, write to all their families when they

650
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:26.460
go back and say, oh, I'm so sorry.

651
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:28.920
We did get the plasma manifold we were after though.

652
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.359
Yes.

653
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:31.740
Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

654
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:36.480
And Mrs. Amara does get a mention. so he has a wife, despite being

655
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.680
a pissy dickhead.

656
00:29:37.740 --> 00:29:41.759
But like in, I don't know if you remember the ship. you know, when

657
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:43.559
they find the crashed Cardassian ship.

658
00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:49.079
And in that, O'Brien's already established secondhand engineer

659
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:53.579
yeah, is killed in that episode and it's so movingly done because

660
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:55.019
they've got an established relationship.

661
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.240
They've got shorthand with each other.

662
00:29:57.299 --> 00:30:00.000
When he dies, he's trying to keep him alive throughout the entire

663
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.819
episode and then in the climax, he sort of goes over to see him

664
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:03.960
and he just flops there.

665
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:07.200
And the whole sort of ending of that is dealing with the

666
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.240
consequences of that and him contacting the family.

667
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.140
These people, who cares?

668
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:14.460
That's right.

669
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:15.180
That's right.

670
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.380
We've never seen them before.

671
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.000
They're obviously dead, so we never see them again.

672
00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:19.980
Have you noticed Garak scratching his hand.

673
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:20.759
Oh, legs.

674
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:25.680
Yeah, something's going on. that's right Like, all of this with

675
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.920
Oprah, no, sorry, with Norgan, the gun going around.

676
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.019
I actually think this is a bit shit.

677
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:34.500
And I think, well, because...

678
00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:36.359
He's like, ours?

679
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.619
Yeah.

680
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:40.079
So we've got the dialogue that's happening in the background and

681
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:44.099
the dialogue's fairly trivial Star Trek episode dialogue.

682
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.240
We can't tell where he is in relation to the Carnassian, although

683
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.180
this shot where the Cardassian's face is immediately revealed out

684
00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:52.920
of the shadows is pretty good.

685
00:30:53.220 --> 00:31:00.240
But we don't get a sense of where everyone is in relation to one

686
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:00.720
another.

687
00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:04.079
So we don't know how close he is to being under threat.

688
00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:04.559
I think.

689
00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:07.019
I just don't think that that scene works.

690
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.559
I mean, I got the sense there that the Cardassian was right next

691
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.559
to Nog, because the camera sort of swung round and there Nog was.

692
00:31:13.619 --> 00:31:15.900
Yeah, but do you know what I mean?

693
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:17.039
Like, we're just sort of wandering.

694
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.420
And I don't even know what Nog's doing.

695
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.180
Like he's designed to go in there where the big gun and wave is

696
00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:21.779
coming.

697
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:22.559
Why is he doing that?

698
00:31:22.619 --> 00:31:24.480
That's why he's...

699
00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:25.380
Is that what he's doing?

700
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.420
Like, I just, I didn't know what was happening there.

701
00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:29.099
Oh, this is not the time to piss around.

702
00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:30.900
You're not on the horse now.

703
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.119
Oh, stupid.

704
00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:34.799
Oh, this is my favourite bit of the whole episode.

705
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:37.920
So this is straight out of a horror movie now.

706
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.859
So, you know, they hear something in the distance.

707
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.140
They think something's coming down in the lift.

708
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.579
Yeah.

709
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.440
And they get they separate.

710
00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:48.059
Of course they do because they're stupid.

711
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:49.140
Yeah.

712
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.640
Yes.

713
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:53.099
I I don't think this is too bad.

714
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:58.619
I have to say that there's a jump scare in this scene that just

715
00:31:58.619 --> 00:31:59.700
got me both times.

716
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:03.299
Every time I watch it, I never know when it's coming.

717
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:06.960
I know it's coming, but I don't know the exact beat where it's

718
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:07.140
coming.

719
00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:08.880
Yeah, yeah.

720
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:13.319
I think that's really well done What helps is Jay Chatterway savvy

721
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:15.119
enough to kill the music?

722
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:19.380
Mike Pajar very cleverly is putting in bangs and clangs in the

723
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:19.680
distance.

724
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:24.000
So you're sort of distracted by the sound effects, and then the

725
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.299
sound for the glass exploding is so loud.

726
00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:29.279
From nothing.

727
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.079
It really makes you jump back.

728
00:32:31.140 --> 00:32:32.220
Yeah.

729
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:35.220
But I think the episode needs more of that. needs more of that.

730
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:36.660
Don't just do it once. think it does.

731
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:41.279
Yeah, I think to really do this effectively you need more time.

732
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:43.559
And to care about the people.

733
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.200
Yeah, that helps as well.

734
00:32:46.259 --> 00:32:50.819
Um, and um, you know, like more skilled writers can make us care

735
00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:55.500
about people in less time than we've had here, but they don't do a

736
00:32:55.500 --> 00:32:57.660
very good job of that, I think.

737
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.660
But I'll repeat, I do think we have a skilled director putting

738
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:01.140
this together.

739
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:02.160
Yes, yeah.

740
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:04.200
But I just don't think we have enough time.

741
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:06.180
Oh, it's coming down.

742
00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:07.859
Now, we'll be all right.

743
00:33:07.859 --> 00:33:11.880
Oh, you're a little bit ahead of me.

744
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:15.480
Thanks for the warming, Nathan.

745
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:21.480
Oh, and they love shoving people off this promenade, don't they

746
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:22.019
from the top level?

747
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.119
Yeah, yeah.

748
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.779
Just how many people have we seen thrown from that bridge now?

749
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:28.440
Oh no.

750
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:29.400
Quite a few.

751
00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:30.960
And the odd Vedec is...

752
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:32.579
Lovely old Vedic, hanging herself.

753
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:32.940
Yeah.

754
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:34.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

755
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:40.200
Yeah, so this isn't enough of a shock, I think, because we've

756
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:41.339
watched TV before.

757
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:43.619
And so we kind of knew this was coming.

758
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:49.619
And I think we could probably guess from this point on, the

759
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:53.880
remaining characters that will...

760
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:54.720
Yeah.

761
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:55.440
Yeah.

762
00:33:56.940 --> 00:34:00.599
Oh, I love the subtitles.

763
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:02.519
Glass crunching underfoot.

764
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:08.639
And that shot of Pichetti to take the out to the break is pretty

765
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:09.059
good too.

766
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.420
Yeah, they're doing pretty good end of...

767
00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:15.360
What are they called?

768
00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:19.559
Yeah. end of act, I guess. yeah, yeah.

769
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:22.980
I think it did have the regular Star Trek, you know, music coming

770
00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:23.699
in at the end there.

771
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah. here, he's the ad break coming.

772
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:33.179
And that probably doesn't help either with the maintaining an

773
00:34:33.179 --> 00:34:33.659
atmosphere.

774
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:35.639
At this point, right, yeah.

775
00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:39.239
I would probably say, look, let's just get all our resources and

776
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:39.960
try and go.

777
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:41.639
But no, he's like, right.

778
00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:45.360
Now, if you go and get the platinum manifolds, you go and get

779
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:45.599
there.

780
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:46.800
I'm like, what are you doing?

781
00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:49.139
Like, everyone is gonna die.

782
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.079
Yeah But he does say it.

783
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:54.480
He does have a great line where he goes, what the hell am I going

784
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:55.440
to say to their family?

785
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:57.239
So I've got this fabulous bit of equipment.

786
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.260
And so this, what about this?

787
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:02.340
This thing here.

788
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:07.860
So, um, Bokta, the Bolian, uh, doesn't want to just go with

789
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:08.820
Amaro.

790
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:13.139
And um, and O'Brien says, oh, would you feel better if you went

791
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:14.159
with Garrick?

792
00:35:14.219 --> 00:35:18.539
And Garrick says, yeah, I'm flattered, but I don't want to do

793
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:18.840
that.

794
00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:23.039
I'm actually going to go off and neutralise those.

795
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.659
That's how you haven't got to worry about them anymore.

796
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:25.920
That's right.

797
00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:28.619
This shot here with the light above Garak.

798
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.679
That was a really nicely done shot because then we know when he's

799
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.679
disarming because the light goes out, but it's just, it's, it's

800
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:34.980
good shot.

801
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:36.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

802
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.320
Yeah.

803
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:42.239
I think, like, I just wonder, is there a version where we see the

804
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:47.579
real Garak, like how willing he is to kill, and in a way, how much

805
00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:52.739
he relishes doing that, and that puts us off.

806
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:57.059
Garak, you know, like, because this doesn't make us uneasy about

807
00:35:57.059 --> 00:35:59.940
Garak, because he does it for space reasons and he's back to

808
00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:02.519
normal in the infirmary at the end of the episode.

809
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:04.619
What do I say at the end?

810
00:36:04.619 --> 00:36:06.179
Is he going to a holding sale for a bit?

811
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.900
No, no, there will be an inquest.

812
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:11.699
Oh, so we'll never hear about it again.

813
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:13.500
That we'll never hear about.

814
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:14.579
No one will ever mention.

815
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.780
So it's literally a scene saying there will be no consequences to

816
00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:21.420
this episode is the subtext to that final scene.

817
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.599
And you just sort of think, wow, that was a...

818
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:27.300
You know, enough next adventure where Jake and Nog are trying to

819
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:30.420
get that baseball card, you know, Garak walked into Dodo's office

820
00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:31.619
and went, what about that inquest?

821
00:36:31.739 --> 00:36:32.699
Is it ever going to happen?

822
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:33.539
Go away.

823
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.139
Go away.

824
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.119
Don't mention it.

825
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:39.659
The paperwork's been lost.

826
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.480
Yeah, that's it.

827
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:47.340
I've got more to say about that, too, because I think it's truly

828
00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:48.000
terrible.

829
00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:52.199
Yeah, the last word really does think this a lot.

830
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:53.039
So bad.

831
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:57.719
But I noticed again there as well, in that scene on the promenade

832
00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:01.380
just saying, just how well lit it was, how the faces were picked

833
00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:04.920
out in really interesting ways, because like DSI is a dark show

834
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:06.900
but it's not normally this dark.

835
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.340
No, that's right.

836
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:09.179
Yeah, yeah.

837
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:11.940
Yeah, I quite like this scene too.

838
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.980
Like the 1st killing, like the 1st Cardassian that he kills is

839
00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:17.579
pretty good.

840
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:21.300
And he looks like he's vulnerable because he's unaware where you

841
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:23.460
see the guy advancing on him, but he doesn't.

842
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:25.260
And look how well lit that is.

843
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:26.579
We don't see his eyes at all.

844
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:27.599
We see sort of...

845
00:37:27.659 --> 00:37:29.760
Oh, there's his eyes suddenly appearing out of the darkness, but

846
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.260
we don't...

847
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:33.840
I mean, the compass your makeup is pretty menacing anyway.

848
00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

849
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.519
But having this scene, and I do think it's well done.

850
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:39.480
It's well shot.

851
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:45.900
Doesn't this then make the scene where Garak stabs Amaro totally

852
00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:46.440
moot?

853
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.400
We know he's coming.

854
00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:50.760
He says at the end of this scene, I've quite enjoyed that when he

855
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:51.539
murders the man.

856
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.239
So it's sort of preempting what's coming.

857
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:56.820
Whereas that moment, it would be shocking, even though I think it

858
00:37:56.820 --> 00:37:59.099
is very predictable the way it's shot.

859
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:04.500
Yeah, I, I think, like, it is sort of slightly shocking because it

860
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:06.480
is shocking to see Garrett go there.

861
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:11.579
Um, but only if you think that actions will have consequences in

862
00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:14.340
the show, because you think, oh, he's murdered someone now, there's

863
00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:15.719
no coming back.

864
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:16.199
Come on now.

865
00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:22.320
I mean, in this empty room, where the fuck else would he be hiding

866
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:23.699
except in one of those pulse?

867
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.420
And that felt good is a little bit shit.

868
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:29.159
I think that's a bit too much.

869
00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:31.739
Let him say, let him act that.

870
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.719
Like, let let's see him act back.

871
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.239
He looked at the gun as well.

872
00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:38.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on.

873
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:45.239
And this was just, I was getting Wesley asking Tasha about why

874
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:49.679
people take drugs vibes from this scene where...

875
00:38:49.739 --> 00:38:51.119
You used to be so savvy.

876
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:52.079
When did you become?

877
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.340
It's naive. right.

878
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:55.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

879
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:57.719
Now O'Brien will explain what a soldier is.

880
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:01.800
The best thing about this scene is how Garak very casually goes, 0

881
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:02.940
yeah, I killed one of them.

882
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:04.440
Nogs are cold.

883
00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:08.280
But, like, we really like the Pichetti would have appreciated it.

884
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:13.019
And it would be unheard of in TNG to have a regular character say

885
00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:15.420
oh, yeah, I murdered someone just off the cuff.

886
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:16.739
Yeah.

887
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.719
And but the trouble is that because it's thrown away a little

888
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:21.960
bit.

889
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.500
And because he's still being a bit camped.

890
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:26.159
Do you know what I mean?

891
00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:29.519
Like, it's kind of a little bit consequence free at this and it

892
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:32.579
could have been enough to make us wary of Garak.

893
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:36.539
Like, if we discover that Garak is a killer and a reasonably

894
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:41.519
enthusiastic and skilled killer, without him, you know, touching

895
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:45.000
the chewing gum, you know, not for space reasons, but just because

896
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.079
of his obsidian order training or whatever, his past, we could

897
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:50.400
have made him properly scary.

898
00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:52.800
But then we don't want to go there.

899
00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:55.619
And that looked like what the episode was trying to do, was trying

900
00:39:55.619 --> 00:39:58.079
to pull it back a bit, make him less cuddly.

901
00:39:58.139 --> 00:40:01.800
O'Brien talks about it in a 2nd, right, about how much work Andy

902
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:05.699
Robinson is doing with his eyes in this scene to suggest that he's

903
00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:06.420
under the influence.

904
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.380
Losing it, yeah.

905
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.260
Andy Robinson always does a lot of work with his eyes.

906
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.659
It's like Carac's eyes are boggled most of the time.

907
00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:16.920
Well, I think what they do is make him sweatier, don't they?

908
00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:22.079
Like, they make the makeup glisten more, like, as it goes on, he

909
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:24.599
becomes clammier and sweatier looking.

910
00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:27.599
Which is, and that's clearly makeup.

911
00:40:27.659 --> 00:40:29.280
Well, that's okay, but I think that's okay.

912
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.159
And you could have done that anyway, but I just think, oh, so this

913
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:33.119
scene, here we go.

914
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:34.860
Oh, yeah.

915
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:36.420
See now, I think this is a good death as well.

916
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:37.199
It's horrible.

917
00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:37.679
Yeah.

918
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:41.460
Well, what's horrible is that he just turns away for a 2nd and the

919
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:44.219
guy's dead and like it was this terrible mistake and there's

920
00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:44.940
nothing he can do.

921
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:48.300
I think that's it's so throwaway. is really quite horrible.

922
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:50.639
I think the funniest line is here.

923
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:51.300
I'll show you.

924
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:55.860
It's not the ADR about the spoonheads, is it?

925
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:57.239
No.

926
00:40:57.300 --> 00:40:59.760
So I don't buy this, right?

927
00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:03.599
So there's some talk about using a racial slur here and the slur

928
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.320
is spoonheads and we have... because our federation character says

929
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.440
it that the writing team are so appalled that it slipped through

930
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.260
as if you cannot be flawed.

931
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.559
But O'Brien has been being racist for, you know, 10 seasons now.

932
00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:23.579
And Kardassian just killed his friend Amaro and they say, oh, well

933
00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:24.480
it never gets addressed.

934
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:25.739
And it's like, well, he gets fucking killed.

935
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:27.119
I mean, I don't know what you want.

936
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:28.739
You know, like what do you want?

937
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.199
And it's not a real racial slur.

938
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:33.300
No one's being called a spoonhead in the playground.

939
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:35.760
It's a pretend made up racial slur.

940
00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:37.679
It just doesn't matter that long.

941
00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:39.360
Did you not hear that in your playground?

942
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:42.719
Sorry, that was our preferred profanity, that was.

943
00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:44.099
Yeah, that's right.

944
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:48.900
What I really love is, yeah, is how southern it is, how you

945
00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:50.400
suddenly hear the kids scream.

946
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:53.340
He turns, and then his neck is just snapped.

947
00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:56.039
And it's just one tiny mistake that he's made.

948
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:58.800
They go to town on the sound effects.

949
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:01.079
It's horrible.

950
00:42:01.139 --> 00:42:02.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

951
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.400
And of all the 4 of them.

952
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:07.559
He's the most likeable, I think Napoleon.

953
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:09.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

954
00:42:09.179 --> 00:42:09.840
He's the sweet.

955
00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:10.380
I think so too.

956
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:11.159
Yeah.

957
00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:11.699
Yeah.

958
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:12.599
Oh, there we go.

959
00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:15.179
A little bit like, do you can't?

960
00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:16.260
Oh here we go.

961
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.579
I all do.

962
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:18.480
Was that racist?

963
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:19.860
Yeah, probably.

964
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.420
That's me, though.

965
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:22.559
I started it.

966
00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:28.739
Now, this be a riot, where Garak takes the flux coupler off him.

967
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.400
He's picked up the wrong tool and stabs him in the stomach with

968
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:32.699
it.

969
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.800
Um, It is very obvious, but what I love about it is Jay Chataway

970
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.920
goes to town with the, da, da, da.

971
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:45.539
I actually laughed out loud where he goes, oh, that's a shame.

972
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.519
It's not even a coil span.

973
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:48.719
The worst part of it is.

974
00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:51.059
It is in a coils manner.

975
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:52.980
And that is such a funny line.

976
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:56.340
And then they have to fuck it up with the flux, coupler, and you

977
00:42:56.340 --> 00:42:58.619
kind of go, so why do we have that extra line there?

978
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.960
that's not actually funny at the end of the joke.

979
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:02.340
Because like...

980
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.539
They have to explain what the technology is.

981
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:08.099
Of course they do.

982
00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:09.900
Because that is really funny.

983
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:11.159
The worst thing about it.

984
00:43:11.219 --> 00:43:13.320
Not the fact that...

985
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.659
The Michael Staprophe boy is dead.

986
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.500
He does have an apostrophe by the way.

987
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:22.800
I imagine all the fans incandescent with rage going, well, what

988
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:23.280
was it?

989
00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:24.000
What was it?

990
00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:24.599
What was it?

991
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:25.980
We'll never know.

992
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:27.900
Fuck that guy.

993
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:28.440
What was it?

994
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:30.659
Oh bless him.

995
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.719
I do still think that is a great scene, though.

996
00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:35.940
Yeah.

997
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:38.400
Oh, and this is so this is so horror movie.

998
00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:41.519
So the person's dead, but he stays alive just long enough to tell

999
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:42.239
them who killed him.

1000
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:43.139
Just to deliver.

1001
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.059
Yeah, so that we know that Garak did it.

1002
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.940
Because otherwise we would just...

1003
00:43:47.940 --> 00:43:49.019
He's dead.

1004
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:49.559
That's it.

1005
00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:50.099
There he is.

1006
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.260
Yep, that's it.

1007
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:52.739
He's gone.

1008
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:54.780
Yes, you should have seen this coming.

1009
00:43:56.219 --> 00:43:58.860
But a bit of blood around the mouth there.

1010
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:00.300
Yeah, yeah.

1011
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:01.860
They been a bit more simple?

1012
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:03.599
with the blood, you know, in series 5.

1013
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:06.179
But not liberal enough.

1014
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:12.000
And, you know, again, our gone episode from series one where we

1015
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.420
just had boy all over the floor and up the walls and stuff.

1016
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:18.719
And even that episode, it was the felon that got dragged down the

1017
00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:20.460
corridor, the trail of blood.

1018
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.320
Oh, that was wonderful.

1019
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:26.940
The tardigrade ripping people up in that series one early series

1020
00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:33.239
one discovery episode, which again is Star Trek doing this in the

1021
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:33.780
ship.

1022
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:34.679
Do you know what I mean?

1023
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.119
It's the Discovery sistership, as usual, you know, dark.

1024
00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:41.099
It's on an angle, I think.

1025
00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:44.400
On an angle, I'll say.

1026
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:45.179
Are the lights down?

1027
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:46.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the lights are down.

1028
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:50.280
I think they do a better job because they have more money and

1029
00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:51.539
because Nathan, this.

1030
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:55.500
He goes, he literally goes, the psychotropic drug.

1031
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:56.880
He must have been exposed to it.

1032
00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.980
Well, thanks, I brought it.

1033
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:02.940
He's been scratching his fucking hand for the last 2 acts.

1034
00:45:03.059 --> 00:45:09.000
He does need to say that, though, because he didn't see him touch

1035
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:09.900
the drug.

1036
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:11.519
Do you know what I mean?

1037
00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:15.300
He didn't see him touch it, and he has to think that this isn't

1038
00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:17.519
just Garrick's going crazy and started killing people.

1039
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:19.559
So he does have to deliver that line.

1040
00:45:19.619 --> 00:45:23.039
It just feels like it's really bad.

1041
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:25.019
There's a great horror movie line there.

1042
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:29.099
Aaron Eisenberg delivered brilliantly where he went, he's coming

1043
00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:30.360
after us, isn't he?

1044
00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:31.920
Oh my god.

1045
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:34.260
Oh my god.

1046
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:36.480
Aaron's watched TV before as well.

1047
00:45:36.539 --> 00:45:37.139
He's great.

1048
00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:40.679
Do you know, I heard somebody make an argument the other day on a

1049
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:44.880
YouTube video that Nog had the best character development of

1050
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.179
pretty much any other character in Star Trek, and it was a

1051
00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:49.500
compelling case.

1052
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.139
I think I think they did a great job with him.

1053
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:55.380
Well, he doesn't even get a line in that 1st episode where you see

1054
00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:57.659
him robbing somewhere and being captured, don't we?

1055
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:01.320
It's a lieutenant in the... what you leave behind is about to be

1056
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:01.679
promoted.

1057
00:46:01.739 --> 00:46:06.239
Yeah, see, he gets promoted in a way that even Harry Kim doesn't.

1058
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:10.199
So now it's a lot of sort of walking around dark rooms with the

1059
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:12.780
guns, you know, all very exiles with the lights going everywhere.

1060
00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:15.719
Yeah, I think this is where it gets boring.

1061
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:16.800
Yeah, I think you're right.

1062
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:19.019
I think from the 2nd he stabs tomorrow.

1063
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:20.820
That's where this falls off the cliff.

1064
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:22.019
But, yeah, yeah.

1065
00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:24.179
And it tries to bring it all together because now he starts

1066
00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:28.260
talking about the board game and he starts talking about O'Brien's

1067
00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:33.780
backstory and he's trying to use the location to trap them and it

1068
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:36.539
just doesn't come together in the way it wants to.

1069
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.420
No, and it's all of the writing things that they've set up.

1070
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:42.659
You know, the board game is there to give Garak a chance to talk

1071
00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:45.719
about character and stuff like that, but it doesn't really go

1072
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:46.199
anywhere.

1073
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:49.440
I can see why they're like, oh, yeah, okay.

1074
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:50.940
This all dovetails beautifully.

1075
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.860
But he's even saying it.

1076
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:56.219
He's saying, what a perfect metaphor for our current situation

1077
00:46:56.219 --> 00:46:57.539
this game is.

1078
00:46:57.599 --> 00:46:59.099
It's kind of like, come on.

1079
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:03.539
Anyone would think Britain was game in the shuttlecross would have

1080
00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:05.280
provided this perfect metaphor.

1081
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:07.380
What a metaphor.

1082
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:13.260
I've seen many many many a DS9 shot down a corridor like that with

1083
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:14.159
the camera on the floor.

1084
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1085
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:18.059
So Mike for Giles getting bored now as well.

1086
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:21.420
So that's kind of crap.

1087
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:22.739
All of that sort of crap.

1088
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.139
There's that line that you pointed to where it's just like, you

1089
00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:27.599
might be wondering why I'm not killing you and it's because you're

1090
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.119
a regular character, even though I have this big gun.

1091
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:33.360
And like, it's all just a little bit shit.

1092
00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:38.639
And, and I actually think that the, the hanging the dead bodies of

1093
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:41.699
the red shirts look stupid.

1094
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:44.280
Oh, it's so funny.

1095
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:49.199
They look like they're in like sexual harnesses in some sauna.

1096
00:47:49.260 --> 00:47:52.980
And like Monctar is just standing there.

1097
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.079
No, like, what's happening there?

1098
00:47:55.139 --> 00:47:57.000
They hang babies from doors.

1099
00:47:57.059 --> 00:47:58.500
It looks a bit like that.

1100
00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:00.960
It's really bad.

1101
00:48:01.019 --> 00:48:02.039
It's not gory.

1102
00:48:02.099 --> 00:48:03.360
Do you know what I mean?

1103
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:04.380
Like, it's not gory.

1104
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.840
It just looks good. horror movie, but you would have lopped the

1105
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:07.500
heads off or something.

1106
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:08.880
I have all the heads lying around.

1107
00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:09.719
Yeah, that's right.

1108
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:12.960
So this is like it just can't do it because it's PG horror for

1109
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:13.260
children.

1110
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.900
And like all horror movies I find.

1111
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:16.199
Yeah.

1112
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:20.340
The 2nd, like the threat is revealed and out in the open.

1113
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:22.380
It just loses all interest for me.

1114
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:25.199
I like all the atmospheric stuff in horror movies in the 1st half

1115
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:25.920
the films.

1116
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:32.099
But the realisation of the antagonist is always pretty dull and it

1117
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:32.699
is here.

1118
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:33.360
Yeah, yeah.

1119
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:36.239
And this is dull because it is like someone doing this for

1120
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:37.380
literally no reason at all.

1121
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.699
You know what I mean?

1122
00:48:38.699 --> 00:48:39.960
Like, fair to Andy Robinson.

1123
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:44.039
It looks like I've captured your last piece, chief.

1124
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:45.599
Oh my god.

1125
00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:50.519
Oh, bless him.

1126
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:51.960
Well, he's trying to have fun.

1127
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:57.059
Oh, this is, I was watching the camera here as he goes around this

1128
00:48:57.059 --> 00:48:57.659
set.

1129
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.539
He does lots of swooping around Ops.

1130
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.400
Yeah, yeah.

1131
00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:03.900
Actually, that's okay.

1132
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:05.760
It looks quite nice all this up in the dark.

1133
00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:07.860
Yeah, yeah.

1134
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:11.400
I like the those lights that go up the side, which I'm just

1135
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:11.940
noticing.

1136
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.639
Yeah, but again, like I'm super bored at this point.

1137
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:15.360
What's happening here?

1138
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:17.940
This is the most exciting game I played in years.

1139
00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:19.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1140
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:22.860
But that, like, it brings out the player's true nature.

1141
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.719
This is, again, a writer thing.

1142
00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:25.380
Do you know what I mean?

1143
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:27.840
Like I'm a killer, you're a killer, blah, blah, blah.

1144
00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:30.239
I don't think Garak was ever this person.

1145
00:49:30.300 --> 00:49:34.619
I didn't ever foresee Garak in the past as just a cold-blooded

1146
00:49:34.619 --> 00:49:38.400
killer. somebody who was a bit of a sadist, you know, who went

1147
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:43.980
into interrogations and subtly, you know, sadistically tortured

1148
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:45.900
people in order to extract information.

1149
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:47.760
That's how I saw Garag.

1150
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.960
Yeah, but and all of this doesn't land and doesn't matter.

1151
00:49:52.019 --> 00:49:53.219
Like, it's so boring.

1152
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:56.219
You know, you were a soldier and you killed a bunch of people and

1153
00:49:56.219 --> 00:49:57.719
how did you feel about it and stuff.

1154
00:49:57.780 --> 00:50:00.059
It's just like, come on, how many times have we seen that?

1155
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.320
That's really super...

1156
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:08.219
Yeah, you, you, you, you, drain out of their eyes.

1157
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:09.599
Yeah, blah, blah, blah.

1158
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:13.139
It's all boring See, and now it's become now, you know, we had all

1159
00:50:13.139 --> 00:50:15.059
those scenes in silence, didn't we, earlier?

1160
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:17.579
Now it's all dialogue. talking.

1161
00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:18.119
Yeah.

1162
00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:18.960
All talking.

1163
00:50:19.019 --> 00:50:22.980
And it's, you know, he's under the influences of some plot drug

1164
00:50:22.980 --> 00:50:25.139
and so none of this matters, you know.

1165
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:29.280
Meet me on the promenade and try to avoid the baby growers.

1166
00:50:29.579 --> 00:50:31.920
Yeah, for God's sake.

1167
00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:33.239
But why?

1168
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:35.760
I mean, like, what if they killed him?

1169
00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:38.219
What if, you know, that's how they kill him?

1170
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:40.800
I think that would have been boring, actually, that's not doing

1171
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:40.980
that.

1172
00:50:41.099 --> 00:50:46.079
No, I still like my version, which, again, is a little bit less

1173
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:48.420
shocking because it doesn't have Garrett killing anyone.

1174
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:53.159
But Garrett killing someone is only pretend shocking because he's

1175
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:56.940
under the influence of a drug and so no one blames him for having

1176
00:50:56.940 --> 00:50:57.480
done it.

1177
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:02.460
And no one feels any the worse about him as a result, except maybe

1178
00:51:02.460 --> 00:51:04.380
Mrs. Amaro.

1179
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:08.280
Do you think there's a problem here that, because I think

1180
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.360
O'Brien's a great character.

1181
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:11.820
I think Garak's a great character and I think Nog's a great

1182
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:15.179
character in that because we only have these characters.

1183
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:16.440
They're just too good to kill.

1184
00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:19.559
So we know they're never going to be in any danger, you know?

1185
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:22.739
Well, no, but I don't think I don't think we have to think

1186
00:51:22.739 --> 00:51:24.900
characters are in danger for there to be drama.

1187
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.460
You know, like I think that's normal.

1188
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:28.559
We watch TV, which I'm hanging there.

1189
00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:29.760
No, aren't they?

1190
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:30.480
That's so bad.

1191
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:33.780
I think they've cleaned tomorrow's face.

1192
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.420
Like Amara doesn't have blood all over him anymore.

1193
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.159
Garak must have cleaned it off.

1194
00:51:38.219 --> 00:51:40.139
The music is...

1195
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:43.440
It's like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

1196
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:48.659
It's very, very, um, What's the word I'm looking for?

1197
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:51.360
Oh, no, no, instead of dramatic and stuff.

1198
00:51:51.420 --> 00:51:58.860
I like how this resolves itself, and I love, I love how, you know

1199
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:02.159
it relies on his ability as an engineer.

1200
00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:03.539
I think that's pretty good.

1201
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.820
You know, that's not bad.

1202
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:09.059
And I did like the line, you know, any closer.

1203
00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:09.900
You might have killed me.

1204
00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:11.460
And he goes, well, that was the idea.

1205
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:12.360
That was the idea.

1206
00:52:12.539 --> 00:52:15.300
We're all friends again in that scene.

1207
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:16.440
Do you know what I mean?

1208
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:18.360
Like he kind of goes, yes, I understand.

1209
00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:21.179
So there's that there is that tiny bit of tension between him and

1210
00:52:21.179 --> 00:52:23.699
no player, but there's never any tension between him and O'Brien.

1211
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.139
No.

1212
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:26.159
No.

1213
00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:28.079
No, and they clean it up at the end.

1214
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:31.139
Like, they absolutely, that final scene is there to say, don't

1215
00:52:31.139 --> 00:52:33.059
worry, none of this makes any difference.

1216
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:35.940
It was just a fun horror movie for you.

1217
00:52:35.940 --> 00:52:37.320
That's right.

1218
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:38.460
Before we get to the good stuff.

1219
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:43.500
But I do think that in a show that is otherwise serialised, you

1220
00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:45.059
know, it always happens, doesn't it?

1221
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:47.579
They do things and then they drop them, you know, they don't take

1222
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:50.880
them up and they're making it up as they go along and that's a

1223
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.139
good thing. you know.

1224
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:55.920
Until they do, until they do things like inquisition, you know

1225
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:59.280
where ties up 15 plot threats that they've left hanging.

1226
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:02.639
Here we go.

1227
00:53:02.699 --> 00:53:05.880
So he's put he's putting his, what, his tricorder on top of his

1228
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:06.420
phaser.

1229
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:08.880
His phaser on top of his strike order.

1230
00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:14.760
He's set the tricorder to explode, thus taking the phaser up with

1231
00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:18.420
it and hopefully killing Garak.

1232
00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:20.099
Yes, that's right.

1233
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:23.159
So he sends a message from his Apple Watch to his iPhone and it

1234
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:23.940
explodes.

1235
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:25.500
That is such a shit line.

1236
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:28.380
Oh, I'm tempted to kill you right now, but I would be depriving

1237
00:53:28.380 --> 00:53:30.000
myself of too much enjoyment.

1238
00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:31.860
Oh, come on.

1239
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:32.579
I know.

1240
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:35.099
And this... standing there.

1241
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.619
What are they standing there like, that's not...

1242
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:40.980
It reminds me of a bit of arena now, you know?

1243
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:43.920
Because the Gordon's got claws.

1244
00:53:44.099 --> 00:53:49.920
So again, we've said that there's something slightly cheap, you

1245
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:53.099
know, like a fist fight in a Star Trek episode is a way of doing

1246
00:53:53.099 --> 00:53:56.219
action, and we have had a lot of standing around talking.

1247
00:53:56.519 --> 00:53:59.340
They're still talking now while they're fine.

1248
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:01.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

1249
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:03.900
I expected to see that blood lust in your eyes, cheap.

1250
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:05.159
Oh, I see is fair.

1251
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.440
Come on.

1252
00:54:07.500 --> 00:54:08.159
Yeah.

1253
00:54:08.219 --> 00:54:09.900
Just, it's all a bit shit.

1254
00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:11.219
Kick him in the nuts.

1255
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:16.079
You're not a soldier.

1256
00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:16.980
I am not a soldier.

1257
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.079
I'm an engineer. you.

1258
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.579
What a lesson.

1259
00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:22.860
That is okay.

1260
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.260
I brought an engineer, I never knew.

1261
00:54:25.980 --> 00:54:28.199
He's never mentioned it.

1262
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:33.840
To be fair, that explosion does knock Garak stump doubles.

1263
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:36.059
Right back there, doesn't it?

1264
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:37.199
Yeah, yeah, it really does.

1265
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:37.980
It really does.

1266
00:54:38.340 --> 00:54:40.920
Yeah, you just remember there's Nog all about.

1267
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:41.579
You all right, Nog?

1268
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:42.900
Yeah, yeah, I'm all right, though.

1269
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:43.739
I'm good.

1270
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:47.099
We'll be hunting that card next week.

1271
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:47.519
Don't worry.

1272
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.159
I remember right.

1273
00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:53.340
There was a series of reviews in DreamWatch magazine.

1274
00:54:53.340 --> 00:54:56.699
And by the time you got to win the cards, because, you know, the

1275
00:54:56.699 --> 00:55:00.000
last episode was Blaze of Glory, which had that fabulous subplot

1276
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:02.099
with Nog and Martoc, do you remember?

1277
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:06.480
Yeah, and by the time it got to win the cars, the guy went, enough

1278
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:07.260
nog already.

1279
00:55:07.380 --> 00:55:09.300
I mean, you just can't have enough of him.

1280
00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:10.380
Come on.

1281
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:11.099
Yeah, shut up.

1282
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:12.000
That's ridiculous.

1283
00:55:12.059 --> 00:55:13.320
Enough nog already.

1284
00:55:13.619 --> 00:55:15.360
Yeah, okay.

1285
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:16.980
So this scene.

1286
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:24.300
I really, really, I really want, you know, uh, um, yes, uh, Dr

1287
00:55:24.300 --> 00:55:29.340
Bashir has brought, you know, with his usual skill.

1288
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:32.519
And so that's it.

1289
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:34.500
If movie ad break is now okay.

1290
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.440
He's not the same man who attacked us, blah, blah, blah.

1291
00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:38.519
None of this matters.

1292
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:41.159
Brought Amaro back to life with his usual skill.

1293
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:43.559
No, no, no.

1294
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:46.440
We don't really like that guy anyway, so...

1295
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:47.099
Yeah, we didn't.

1296
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:47.820
He was an asshole.

1297
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:50.400
He should be all right in a few days.

1298
00:55:50.460 --> 00:55:53.039
Then we go up here and they're smiling at each other.

1299
00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:55.199
You know, like it just doesn't go anywhere.

1300
00:55:57.780 --> 00:56:02.460
Only in Star Trek, could you be trying to murder somebody in one

1301
00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:05.219
scene and then sort of going, well, hope you're all right in the

1302
00:56:05.219 --> 00:56:05.579
next scene.

1303
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:08.760
Yeah, look, he's looking, he'd been embarrassed.

1304
00:56:08.820 --> 00:56:11.820
I think he's embarrassed by having that enormous contraction on

1305
00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:12.360
his forehead.

1306
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:14.460
That's right.

1307
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:16.800
We got the plasma mouth.

1308
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:18.480
I love mission accomplished. actually.

1309
00:56:18.539 --> 00:56:21.000
I think he's a pretty funny line giving.

1310
00:56:21.059 --> 00:56:23.699
And then I guess it didn't go the way anyone expected.

1311
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:24.539
It's just like, what?

1312
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:28.320
You were talking about booby traps before you left the station.

1313
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:29.400
Yes.

1314
00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:30.059
Yes.

1315
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:31.559
It's so dumb.

1316
00:56:31.619 --> 00:56:34.980
And there's going to be an inquest which she never mentioned again

1317
00:56:34.980 --> 00:56:37.079
but like it's so terrible.

1318
00:56:37.139 --> 00:56:39.780
Oh, yeah, because he says this.

1319
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:41.159
You remember that fella all stabbed?

1320
00:56:41.219 --> 00:56:42.780
Would you mind just telling his wife?

1321
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:44.460
I'm very sorry about that.

1322
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:45.360
I feel bad.

1323
00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:49.739
I touch some blue passer scene and, well, you know, the rest was

1324
00:56:49.739 --> 00:56:50.099
history.

1325
00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:52.679
Oh, for God's sake.

1326
00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:56.519
Like, it's just absolutely taming him as well.

1327
00:56:56.579 --> 00:57:00.119
Andy Robinson was bang on with his instincts about the script.

1328
00:57:00.179 --> 00:57:00.539
Yeah.

1329
00:57:00.539 --> 00:57:01.860
Yeah, yeah.

1330
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:02.820
I think it's a mistake.

1331
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:04.260
I don't think it's a mistake.

1332
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:06.599
And I think there is a way of doing it that does it without space

1333
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:11.760
reasons, but also does it without him murdering a crew member.

1334
00:57:11.820 --> 00:57:14.099
You know, which is a bit better.

1335
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:16.619
But it's clearly a direction that they don't want to go in.

1336
00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:20.940
Like he does become more a part of the our gang and does become

1337
00:57:20.940 --> 00:57:24.179
more reliable and trustworthy, however much he complains about

1338
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:24.599
it.

1339
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:29.099
The admittedly fabulous opening scene of a call to arms in 2

1340
00:57:29.099 --> 00:57:34.800
episodes time is Garak showing wedding dresses to Lita and Rome.

1341
00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:38.639
And then...

1342
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:39.780
Does anyone remember?

1343
00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:40.980
They killed people last week.

1344
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:43.320
Two weeks ago or was it last week?

1345
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:44.519
It was 2 weeks ago.

1346
00:57:45.659 --> 00:57:49.679
I've showed you every dress.

1347
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:52.920
I've showed you every dress in my repertoire and you haven't liked

1348
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:53.519
any of them.

1349
00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:55.260
I'm gonna kill you.

1350
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.639
Oh, God, in the cars has started.

1351
00:57:59.699 --> 00:58:01.260
Oh, why don't we do that instead?

1352
00:58:01.380 --> 00:58:03.659
So good. so great.

1353
00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:06.960
There's always something, Nathan, that will make you smile.

1354
00:58:07.019 --> 00:58:08.400
He says at the end, doesn't he?

1355
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:09.780
Such a good episode.

1356
00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:11.099
Gorgeous. so great.

1357
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:13.679
A bit more gorgeous than the one we just watched.

1358
00:58:13.739 --> 00:58:15.059
But we did have pub with it.

1359
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:16.440
Oh, yeah.

1360
00:58:16.500 --> 00:58:17.699
Like, I don't think it's terrible.

1361
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:20.400
I don't feel like I wasted my time and stuff and I do think most

1362
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:25.260
of the problems with it. problems just inherent to kind of 90s

1363
00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:25.980
TV.

1364
00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:28.619
You know, like it's just a thing.

1365
00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:32.940
Oh, I think if you took away Mike Vajar and Jay Chatterway, it

1366
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:35.639
would be a very lousy episode.

1367
00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:39.059
I mean, you still have those actors in there and they're good.

1368
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:42.480
But they were in the episode and they're part of the episode and

1369
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:45.179
it's their job to make it good and they do that.

1370
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:45.960
So that's okay.

1371
00:58:46.019 --> 00:58:50.159
I think, like, as we said, so the script stuff is a little bit on

1372
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:52.440
the nose and a little bit too much.

1373
00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:57.059
And I didn't notice until this time through where Garrick says

1374
00:58:57.059 --> 00:59:00.719
this game is a perfect metaphor for our relationship.

1375
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:01.260
Fuck off.

1376
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:08.219
O'Brien should look at the camera and goes, yes, we do this from

1377
00:59:08.219 --> 00:59:10.260
time to time on Star Trek, don't we?

1378
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:12.000
That's right.

1379
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:14.280
The trouble is bad.

1380
00:59:14.340 --> 00:59:17.219
The trouble is, I don't have that. can't hang a lantern on

1381
00:59:17.219 --> 00:59:17.519
anything.

1382
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:26.519
That sort of fear of subtext, you know, what if what if those

1383
00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:27.719
nerds miss this?

1384
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:31.320
What if they don't understand that the reason that we're banging

1385
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:34.860
on about Kotra is because it gives us a way to talk about the

1386
00:59:34.860 --> 00:59:37.739
characters, it's a bit, that's a little bit cheesy.

1387
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:40.860
Or even worse. is the other things we pointed out as well, you

1388
00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:44.460
know, saying what the piece of technology is before he stabs

1389
00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:48.719
tomorrow, explicitly telling the audience, you know, he's coming

1390
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:49.500
after us.

1391
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:53.099
And this is why, you know, trust us.

1392
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:54.480
We are watching the episode.

1393
00:59:54.539 --> 00:59:55.679
That's right.

1394
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:56.340
That's right.

1395
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:59.159
So there's that, and there is, of course, the fact that this is

1396
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:02.400
just, you know, Garak has to be selling a wedding dress in a

1397
01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:03.300
fortnight's time.

1398
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:06.300
So everything goes back to normal.

1399
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:07.380
I hadn't realised that.

1400
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:08.099
That's really great.

1401
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:12.719
I mean, I'll probably just sum it up as, I don't think this is

1402
01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:17.039
great, but kudos for the deaths, because I do think the deaths are

1403
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:19.380
pretty great until they're put in the baby growers.

1404
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:20.940
Yeah, no, that's silly.

1405
01:00:27.719 --> 01:00:31.440
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to

1406
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:37.079
work out where we're going next, and inspired by Inner Mirror

1407
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:42.360
Darkly, which we just watched a couple of episodes ago.

1408
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:45.659
I'm choosing, no, I'm not really choosing Enterprise again.

1409
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:49.800
I want us to do Star Trek the original series.

1410
01:00:50.820 --> 01:00:52.559
A great choice.

1411
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:56.460
I don't think I've watched an episode of Star Trek, the original

1412
01:00:56.460 --> 01:01:00.179
series for entire Star Trek project that I haven't really enjoyed

1413
01:01:00.179 --> 01:01:02.579
talking about, even when it's been awful.

1414
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:05.219
I know you struggled a few times, but yeah.

1415
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:06.659
No, no, no.

1416
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:08.579
I quite like it even when it's a bit awful.

1417
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:09.360
I have to say.

1418
01:01:09.420 --> 01:01:14.219
This is the only time in my Star Trek journey where I have managed

1419
01:01:14.219 --> 01:01:18.360
to achieve a real appreciation for those 1st 2 seasons.

1420
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:19.619
So let's do it.

1421
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:21.119
Let's do it.

1422
01:01:21.179 --> 01:01:21.539
All right.

1423
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:26.219
Your random Star Trek, the original series episode is Spock's

1424
01:01:26.219 --> 01:01:33.000
Brain, which we covered in episode 11 of... that you struggled

1425
01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:33.179
with?

1426
01:01:33.239 --> 01:01:35.159
Yeah, that's really bad.

1427
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.960
Not in a fun way.

1428
01:01:37.019 --> 01:01:38.639
Apart from the miniskirts.

1429
01:01:39.179 --> 01:01:43.559
Okay, season two, episode nine, metamorphosis.

1430
01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:46.440
I have no idea what that's about.

1431
01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:49.320
That's such a nothing title, isn't it?

1432
01:01:49.380 --> 01:01:50.340
It's like a session.

1433
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:52.079
I'll go to our usual resource.

1434
01:01:52.139 --> 01:01:53.820
Jama.

1435
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:58.320
Just so we can see your, how many stars he gave it.

1436
01:01:58.320 --> 01:01:59.280
Right, Siri.

1437
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:00.300
How many bams he gave it?

1438
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:02.039
Metamorphosis.

1439
01:02:02.099 --> 01:02:02.400
Okay.

1440
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:07.019
Kirk, Spock, McCoy and a Federation negotiator become stranded

1441
01:02:07.019 --> 01:02:11.639
when their shuttle is sucked into a celestial body by a mysterious

1442
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:15.360
force that has somehow revitalised Zefram Cochrane.

1443
01:02:15.420 --> 01:02:20.579
The man who invented war drive 2 centuries before, 3 stars out of

1444
01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:20.820
four.

1445
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:23.760
So just a bit better than Ben.

1446
01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:24.539
Slightly.

1447
01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:25.679
Slightly.

1448
01:02:25.739 --> 01:02:29.760
I think I've seen that a long time ago, I think, because I

1449
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:33.000
certainly remember Zefron Cochrane. who is nowhere near as fun as

1450
01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:34.079
James Cromwell.

1451
01:02:34.380 --> 01:02:37.019
Is that from Cochrane back in the 60s?

1452
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:40.559
I guess we'll never know because I'm pressing the button in.

1453
01:02:41.579 --> 01:02:47.219
It's series two, just 3 episodes later, episode 12.

1454
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:49.679
The deadly years.

1455
01:02:49.739 --> 01:02:51.599
Oh that sounds wonderful.

1456
01:02:51.719 --> 01:02:52.739
Let's see what it's about.

1457
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:54.780
Um, a disease.

1458
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:55.559
Oh, not a good start.

1459
01:02:55.619 --> 01:03:00.000
A disease that causes rapid ageing affects several members of the

1460
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.139
enterprise crew, and eventually leaves the captain's senile, oh

1461
01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:06.719
latex, and unable to command the ship.

1462
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:09.239
Oh, it sounds...

1463
01:03:09.300 --> 01:03:13.500
It's the one like the USS, what is it?

1464
01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.599
The Britain or something?

1465
01:03:15.659 --> 01:03:16.559
What's that one called?

1466
01:03:16.619 --> 01:03:18.659
It's going a really boring title.

1467
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:24.360
It's in series 2 of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and it's Poor

1468
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:27.179
Old Pulaski covered in latex.

1469
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:28.260
Oh, okay, yes.

1470
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:29.880
Oh, poor Diana Mulder.

1471
01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:31.679
They make her hideous, don't they?

1472
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:35.579
Oh, I mean, I'm just looking at the review on Jammers now and he

1473
01:03:35.579 --> 01:03:39.659
says that there is, in fact, a hearing in the middle of it, a bit

1474
01:03:39.659 --> 01:03:41.760
like, you know, the Scotty Murder one.

1475
01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:43.079
So let's not do that one.

1476
01:03:43.139 --> 01:03:46.679
We can't have another 10 minute sequence of people sitting around

1477
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:48.059
the table talking about the episode.

1478
01:03:48.239 --> 01:03:50.340
Well, how about this one?

1479
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.380
Bread and circuses.

1480
01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:54.480
Season 2, episode 25.

1481
01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:57.599
Very keen on season 2 right now, aren't you?

1482
01:03:57.659 --> 01:04:00.300
Apparently, the Randomisers got a thing for it.

1483
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:01.380
Right, here we go.

1484
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:06.360
A landing party beams down to a parallel earth that resembles 20th

1485
01:04:06.360 --> 01:04:11.579
century Rome upon which Kirk Spock and McCoy are taken prisoner.

1486
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:14.940
Oh, that sounds gold. 20th century Rome.

1487
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:15.539
Sounds great.

1488
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:18.780
Lots of lovely pasta people driving Lamborghinis.

1489
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:22.139
Women dressed fabulously.

1490
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:26.219
I think I've seen it and I think it has the cheesiest ending of

1491
01:04:26.219 --> 01:04:29.099
any Star Trek, an indefensibly cheesy ending.

1492
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:31.679
And if you haven't seen it, I want to hear your reaction.

1493
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:32.460
I never, ever seen this.

1494
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:33.960
Gemma gets this.

1495
01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:36.539
2.5 stars.

1496
01:04:36.599 --> 01:04:38.099
So exactly the same.

1497
01:04:38.099 --> 01:04:38.880
One Bam.

1498
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:40.260
One, one, one.

1499
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:44.820
And so this is well executed but completely by the numbers.

1500
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.539
Well, that's what we've just watched in...

1501
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:51.420
That seems to be the theme.

1502
01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:56.400
And it is my role, even though I choose, I've chosen quite a good

1503
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:02.940
series this time to bring the mediocrity, I think, seems to be my

1504
01:05:02.940 --> 01:05:04.500
role on the randomiser.

1505
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:05.219
So what do you think?

1506
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:06.179
Bread and circuses?

1507
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:09.420
20th century Rome, bring it on baby.

1508
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:21.420
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1509
01:05:21.420 --> 01:05:25.440
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project

1510
01:05:24.659 --> 01:05:27.900
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1511
01:05:27.900 --> 01:05:28.800
media accounts.

1512
01:05:28.860 --> 01:05:32.820
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

1513
01:05:32.820 --> 01:05:34.079
by Cameron Lamb.

1514
01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:38.340
This episode was recorded on the 27th of August 2024 and released

1515
01:05:38.340 --> 01:05:39.900
on the 30th of August.

1516
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.500
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the original series, Bread

1517
01:05:43.500 --> 01:05:44.340
and Circuses.

1518
01:06:02.699 --> 01:06:05.579
Oh, it's gonna be terrible, isn't it?

1519
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:09.480
It's, I think it is pretty terrible, and the ending is super

1520
01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:10.260
cheesy.

1521
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:12.000
Like terrible.

1522
01:06:12.059 --> 01:06:14.940
Kirk's pop and bones are caught and imprisoned and scheduled to

1523
01:06:14.940 --> 01:06:18.300
face death if Kirk doesn't agree to turn over the rest of the

1524
01:06:18.300 --> 01:06:22.860
Enterprise crew for use in their televised deadly arena games.

1525
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:25.019
Oh god, this sounds glorious.

1526
01:06:25.139 --> 01:06:29.820
Yeah, see, it's not 20th century Rome. 20th century ancient Rome

1527
01:06:29.820 --> 01:06:30.300
that's the thing.

1528
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:31.980
Like, because 20th century Rome.

1529
01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:35.400
I was in 20th century Rome, at least once.

1530
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:36.599
It was lovely, you know.

1531
01:06:36.659 --> 01:06:38.400
Televised game.

1532
01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:43.019
So is this a bit, a bit, um, Is this a talking about television?

1533
01:06:43.139 --> 01:06:44.340
This episode.

1534
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:45.659
Like making television.

1535
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:48.599
Actually, that is kind of interesting, but it is, you know, making

1536
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:53.579
television, but it's gladiatorial games on TV because it's Rome

1537
01:06:53.579 --> 01:06:56.219
but it's in the 20th century with present-day technology.

1538
01:06:56.699 --> 01:07:00.059
And it's also that thing which Star Trek sort of abandons a little

1539
01:07:00.059 --> 01:07:07.260
bit-ish, which is that other planets have parallel development, so

1540
01:07:07.260 --> 01:07:10.500
you can go to the Hitler planet and you can go to the, you know

1541
01:07:10.500 --> 01:07:13.980
the ancient Rome planet and stuff, the cowboy planet.

1542
01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.079
Like it kind of abandons that a little bit.

1543
01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:21.179
There's a delightful um, Earth colony in the last episode of

1544
01:07:21.179 --> 01:07:24.960
series 2 of Strange New Worlds, which it's like, and we've

1545
01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:29.579
modelled our colony on a beautiful 20th century kind of village or

1546
01:07:29.579 --> 01:07:32.519
something, and it's the design is really wonderful.

1547
01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:36.420
It's kind of like, oh, this is Star Trek doing this in 2023 and

1548
01:07:36.420 --> 01:07:37.920
I'm so totally here for it.

1549
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:39.960
Yeah, with money.

1550
01:07:40.019 --> 01:07:42.420
So that is a very strange thing.

1551
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:46.079
This is one before Simon Earth, obviously.

1552
01:07:46.139 --> 01:07:47.280
Okay.

1553
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:49.980
And obviously 2 before series three.

1554
01:07:50.039 --> 01:07:53.940
So this is our chance to learn whether Star Trek, in fact, got bad

1555
01:07:53.940 --> 01:07:55.500
in series or not.

1556
01:07:55.619 --> 01:07:59.400
Or was already bad, which is probably what's going to happen, I

1557
01:07:59.400 --> 01:07:59.579
think.

1558
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:04.380
Yeah, I think two's got great episodes in it, but it is a little

1559
01:08:04.380 --> 01:08:05.880
hit and miss.

1560
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:09.179
Obsession, you were you were less so about that one.

1561
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:12.539
Well, I thought obsession was good in retrospect, but when I 1st

1562
01:08:12.539 --> 01:08:14.880
saw it, I thought, 0 my god, this is barely competent.

1563
01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:18.000
You know, like it's just kind of, and it is that thing.

1564
01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:23.760
Like, um, my friend Matthew sent me a list of someone's list of

1565
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:26.220
bottom 5 episodes of Star Trek.

1566
01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:29.579
And I can't remember which one it was, but they said this is the

1567
01:08:29.579 --> 01:08:32.699
only episode of Star Trek that's completely incompetent.

1568
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:35.880
And like we'd already said, I think, sometimes you chewed it

1569
01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:38.819
because like dagger of the mind wasn't even on that list, not

1570
01:08:38.819 --> 01:08:39.779
dagger of the mind.

1571
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:42.659
Wolf in the fold wasn't even on that.

1572
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:48.420
No, what was what was the one with the man who was just bonkers.

1573
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:49.319
You killed the green woman.

1574
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:50.100
Do you remember?

1575
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:52.079
Yeah, isn't that dagger of the mind?

1576
01:08:52.140 --> 01:08:53.520
Or whom God's destroyed?

1577
01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:54.539
when God's destroyed?

1578
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:55.560
Barely complicated.

1579
01:08:55.619 --> 01:08:56.760
Yeah, yeah.

1580
01:08:56.819 --> 01:08:57.720
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1581
01:08:57.779 --> 01:08:58.979
It's kind of like, what are you doing?

1582
01:08:59.039 --> 01:08:59.939
Like, what?

1583
01:08:59.939 --> 01:09:03.060
Actually, that did have a Tellerite that didn't look shit in it.

1584
01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:05.699
And that woman did explode on that roll.

1585
01:09:05.819 --> 01:09:07.500
The exploding green woman.

1586
01:09:07.560 --> 01:09:08.279
Which was great.

1587
01:09:08.579 --> 01:09:10.079
Awful.

1588
01:09:10.140 --> 01:09:13.079
But there are I can see there are some absolute dubs in this

1589
01:09:13.079 --> 01:09:13.800
season as well.

1590
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:18.239
Maybe Freiburger wasn't entirely flame.

1591
01:09:18.420 --> 01:09:22.619
But the worst thing, like, what were we watching the other day?

1592
01:09:22.739 --> 01:09:27.180
Like, what was the last Star Trek TOS one that we did?

1593
01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:30.840
Oh, no, no, it was me.

1594
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:32.699
I was watching...

1595
01:09:32.699 --> 01:09:34.560
Oh, you did it...

1596
01:09:34.619 --> 01:09:35.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1597
01:09:35.220 --> 01:09:39.659
As for the Enterprise episode and just having them all do the crap

1598
01:09:39.659 --> 01:09:45.720
joke at the end of the episode and then having produced by Freddie

1599
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:48.960
Freiberger appear on the bottom of the screen was just so

1600
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:49.800
depressing.

1601
01:09:49.859 --> 01:09:52.920
It was so funny. every episode that season.

1602
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:56.460
And every episode coming up in your rubber podcast.

1603
01:09:56.520 --> 01:09:57.840
That's right.

1604
01:09:57.899 --> 01:10:01.260
That's right, every episode in Space 1999 series 3.

1605
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:05.100
I wonder if, I wonder how the production values stack up between

1606
01:10:05.100 --> 01:10:11.880
TOS 3 and, well, I mean, uh, you know, clearly there's a massive

1607
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:16.560
budget cut in Space 1999 between series one and 2 because they

1608
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:19.920
can't erect those big, beautiful sets, which were half of the

1609
01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:21.899
reason that I enjoyed watching it as a kid.

1610
01:10:22.020 --> 01:10:25.260
I didn't think, oh, I would get past the 1st episode and I was so

1611
01:10:25.260 --> 01:10:26.760
impressed by the 1st episode.

1612
01:10:26.819 --> 01:10:28.739
I was the 2nd and I really enjoyed it.

1613
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:32.880
I only got about maybe 5 or 6 in, but less further than I thought

1614
01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:33.300
I would.

1615
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:34.859
It's weird.

1616
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:38.100
Like, I like it, and it, that's the thing in, in series, one.

1617
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:42.420
It's like kind of weird and philosophical and strange and do you

1618
01:10:42.420 --> 01:10:42.899
know what I mean?

1619
01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:44.819
It's not just an alien comes along.

1620
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:48.840
Whereas in series 2, It's often just, you know, like rubber

1621
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:50.699
monster. and Cheryl.

1622
01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:53.399
Yeah, yeah. turning into a gorilla.

1623
01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:55.319
A nylon gorilla.

1624
01:10:55.380 --> 01:10:57.479
Like, it's so bad.

1625
01:10:57.539 --> 01:11:00.239
Also, we have those.

1626
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:01.199
Barbara Bane.

1627
01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:03.119
Glorious.

1628
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:04.560
So great.

1629
01:11:04.619 --> 01:11:07.260
She taught Beverly everything she knows.

1630
01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:09.539
Oh, God, the similarities.

1631
01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:10.560
Oh, there, aren't they?