WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:39:05

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we're back, and we're in one of your favourite seasons, I think, of Star Trek, am I right?

3
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If not your favourite season.

4
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One of my favourite seasons of Star Trek of all time, one of my favourite genres of all time, horror horror.

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This should be an absolute banger for me.

6
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So we're right at the end of Deep Size 9 series five.

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It's episode 24 and it's called Empoc Noor.

8
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And it's part of the honoured tradition of using our normal sets to represent somewhere else by turning the lights down.

9
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And...

10
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We have seen a bit of that already, haven't we?

11
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Doomsday machine. absolutely.

12
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Strange new worlds with the fabulous plants everywhere in the fairy tale kingdom.

13
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Well, that was still the enterprise, but I'm thinking of all those who wander, which is the 2nd last episode of series one, where the sets stand in for whatever that chip is that's crashed with a gone on board.

14
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So it is a thing that the show does fairly regularly, but this is obviously Deep Space 9's 1st go at it.

15
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Unbelievably, though.

16
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We returned to Empoc Nor in series 7 and that's where Dukata set up his loony, but you're on Cole.

17
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Yeah, that's right.

18
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In fact, I thought that that was what we were talking about. and I'd forgotten this one, I think a bit.

19
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So I'm going to lay my cards on the table.

20
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I think this was okay. and there are some bits in it that I liked a lot, but I think it suffered a bit from the fact that it's part of a weekly show.

21
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And what that means is I don't think it has enough time, given everything else it has to do, to build up atmosphere.

22
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So I don't think it's as suspenseful and atmospheric as it could be, although it is quite suspenseful.

23
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And I think it absolutely does a massive thing and then has no consequences at all for it.

24
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And that's kind of a bit dumb, I think.

25
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This is one where way back in the day when I wrote reviews for every single Star Trek episode on Docahoe reviews.

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Go check it out.

27
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I do plug in very often on here, so, you know, why not?

28
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And I really liked it back in the day.

29
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And it's one that sort of haemorrhaged interest for me over time.

30
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And I don't know whether that's more exposure to you watching DS9, you know, me figuring all these episodes were gritty drama of the highest order and you, you know, reminded me that it's all a big fast or soap, soap in particular.

31
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But I do think on this watch, two-thirds of this, I think, works really quite well as just a very simple horror story set in a spooky setting with people dying.

32
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And then it falls off a cliff in the last 3rd where poor Andy Robinson is asked to play serial killer for the 900th time in his career and makes some unusual acting choices when he does.

33
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It's almost sort of a camp performance, which he normally does as Garrick, and that works fine because he's supposed to be funny.

34
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But here he's supposed to be scary and with some of the lines that he gets, you know, Nathan, you have no idea how badly I want to kill you right now.

35
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You know, it's all a bit bizarre that last third.

36
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Yeah, yeah.

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I think it doesn't work.

38
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Just really because Garrett goes mad for space reasons.

39
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And once that happens, you know, like he picks up a bit of chewing gum off the...

40
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I thought it was plastic scene.

41
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Blue plaster scene.

42
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I think someone stuck their gum, one of those Cardassian soldiers stuck his gum on the stairway, the spiral staircase, and he picked it up, and then he, it's the crazy xenophobe drug that makes him go crazy.

43
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Oh, I thought you just had an aversion to touching people's gum and that turned into a serial killer from that point on.

44
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That can happen.

45
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But like, I just think that that's dumb.

46
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So what's the point of that?

47
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And in a way, a version of this where Garrett gets a little bit too excited about killing the Cardassian soldiers might have been a bit more interesting and we'll get there in time.

48
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In a way this is sort of rightly and does want to say something about the 2 characters.

49
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O'Brien and Garak, but DS9 gets in the way.

50
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Or really, the need to do a Star Trek episode gets in the way of that, I think.

51
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I mean, DS9 does have a good track record of same thing about his characters in its sort of throwaway episodes like this.

52
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But I thought the only real point this was trying to make was the line that O'Brien has in the climax, which is, you know, you're right.

53
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I'm not a soldier.

54
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I'm an engineer.

55
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And I was like, okay, is that the point we've been coming up?

56
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We sort of knew that at the start of the episode.

57
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But, yeah.

58
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I mean, it is it is giving us a bit more background as well.

59
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I learned something interesting reading the Deep Space 9 companion, which I read a little bit earlier today, that there was a 1st draft of this story, and I didn't realise the actors got to read the 1st drafts, but Andy Robinson read it and went to Ira Bear and said, I won't, I'm not doing this.

60
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I won't do this.

61
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And so it was this script with all the character stuff taken out. and Garak was just basically, you know, a berserker killer going around killing everybody.

62
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I don't even think there was the Kardashians in the tube.

63
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It was just Garak had gone mad.

64
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Yeah.

65
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And he was like, I can't play. took one look at the script and said, no, we won't do that.

66
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And that's why they added all of that later character stuff in.

67
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But he was still a little bit uneasy.

68
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In the same way that he's uneasy when they do the parallel universe episodes, because he considers Garak to be quite a multidimensional character with lots of interesting facets to him.

69
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And this and the parallel universe, Carac.

70
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It's very one though, you know?

71
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And I'm not sure he knows how to play that note.

72
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Yeah, yeah.

73
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And the O'Brien stuff is the backstory stuff that we get for O'Brien in The Wounded, which we've done as well.

74
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So Setlick 3, do you remember he says, you know, um, I don't hate you.

75
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I hate what I became because of you.

76
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And so all of that stuff about war.

77
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Here, it's clearly a little bit of kind of decoration and stuff and it gives Garak something to talk about.

78
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But it doesn't really go anywhere, I think.

79
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And the episode deliberately avoids, I think, saying anything about O'Brien as a soldier, because I think he's just not that anymore.

80
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The original pitch for this was that it was Garak and Worf on an obsidian order ship and he got and it was sort of like a cat and mouse game with them going through the ship.

81
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But the idea of this wasn't a character piece.

82
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The idea of this was a horror episode of D-space 9.

83
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And it was pitched by your friend of mine, Brian Fuller, who pitched earlier in the season, the Darkness in the Light, which is another horror themed episode with Kira's friend being bumped off by a serial killer.

84
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Fabulous episode.

85
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What this episode does have.

86
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And I've recently been watching...

87
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You won't know of this, but I'm going to educate you now.

88
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Babylon 5 and I'm just about halfway through the 2nd series and struggling immensely with it.

89
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But what both Babylon 5 and NPOC Nor have in common is Mike Vajar.

90
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And I think he's a really good director of science fiction.

91
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And if this is a bit limp and thin in both story and character, it does have a lot of atmosphere.

92
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I think he likes this really well.

93
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I think the points where it's supposed to scare you.

94
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So the points where people die, they're really affected.

95
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There's one really horrific moment where someone has their neck snapped and you hear the noise and everything and the poor kid's screaming his head off.

96
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Yeah.

97
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So I think, I think in terms of a television production, this actually is above average, the Xbox 9.

98
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Yeah, I would say, too, that J.

99
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Chataway does a very good job creating the atmosphere, too.

100
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Enough a bit of Joe Chatterway, though.

101
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I do.

102
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I think he's very good.

103
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And I did notice that he was on the credits before I watched it and then just listening to how he does the music is a little bit reminiscent of the music in Alien, which is obviously the place to go for sort of scary things happening in Spain.

104
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And I think there are some good beats.

105
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And I have to say, we're going to open with a comedy scene at the beginning, which I think is absolutely magnificent.

106
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So good.

107
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So good.

108
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But we'll talk about how that undermines, I think, what we're trying to do on the show.

109
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But I think that because this is 90s trek and even at series 5 of Deep Space 9, this isn't doing serialisation in the same thoroughgoing way that even enterprise series 4 will do.

110
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And certainly that Battlestar Galactica will do. or even the show itself in later in the run.

111
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Interestingly, I think this is the tipping point, though, because in the next episode is in the cars, which has the B plot about Kai Wynn coming to the station and meeting with Weyoon.

112
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Then it's the season finale, and then it's the 6th episode arc.

113
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So this is like this is like the full stop where DS9 goes from being, you know, standalones with loose serialisation to being a properly serialised show.

114
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Yeah.

115
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Yeah.

116
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Yeah, and I think this offers as a result of it.

117
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And we can talk about whether the show's wrong to attempt that given that it can't follow up on the consequences or is it okay?

118
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And I'm not quite sure.

119
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I kind of think we'd be slightly poorer without this, but I do think that there is a problem where it just has no consequences at all.

120
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Rocks and shoals accepted.

121
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Well, the course of this episode is already come up in an episode that we've covered.

122
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And it's not even a big moment, but it's a very funny scene, isn't it?

123
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where Nog won't walk.

124
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He won't walk in front of Garak, just because they do remember, and that's what I do like about the DSI writers, and they'll pepper it with little lines.

125
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Yeah, they've kind of put Nog and Garak together in a scene.

126
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They know that they have to adjust it so they make the scene be about that.

127
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I think that's really good, but he's basically murdered someone and we're all fine with that next week.

128
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It says to knock at the end.

129
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Cadets?

130
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There may be hope for you yet.

131
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One last thing before we go in then.

132
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And that is um, the, there is no B plot in this episode, which I think is a very smart idea because can you imagine going from this darkened space station to people being killed to say quark attempting to make a sex program of Kira every 5 minutes?

133
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It would kill the mood completely, wouldn't it?

134
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So I think that's a savvy move.

135
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But it is kind of unusual.

136
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I think you could probably count on 2 hands how many DSI episodes does not have subplots in it.

137
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And this is one of them, but because it is horror movie of the week.

138
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It's going for that.

139
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I mean, part of the reason they have a B plot is that everyone has to have a go, you know, like everyone has to be in the episode except under very special circumstances.

140
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And so we do have that opening scene where a whole heap of people are in it that aren't in the rest of the episode at all.

141
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And I think that's a great scene, but I do think that it eats up valuable time that could if he'd spent building atmosphere.

142
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And it does the trek thing of just having to show us every step of the way.

143
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We can't start with them arriving on Empoc Nor, for instance, and then learning why they were there later, which I think would have worked better.

144
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You know, we have to have a comedy scene so that um, Terry and uh, Nanak get their paycheque this week.

145
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I will say one thing I noticed was that those actors have learned how to make the one line they've got in the episode count for something because the bit in Cisco's office where Odo goes.

146
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Well, I suppose we could just start stolt gold to cut if he's got any spare manifolds lying around.

147
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That's your one line for this entire episode and you've made it very funny.

148
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Thank you, Renee.

149
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Yeah.

150
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Yeah.

151
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Well, let's go into that because I think that opening seat is really great.

152
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Amazing.

153
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I count in?

154
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Yes.

155
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All right.

156
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

157
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Yeah, holy crap, this is so funny.

158
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And so it's it's Quark's bar and it's completely deserted except for Nog.

159
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And so...

160
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I've got more for there, obviously.

161
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Nog Morn.

162
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

163
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Yeah.

164
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But, and they notice that no one's here.

165
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And then he goes, let me get your order before, you know, the noise starts and you all want to go.

166
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And then the noise, what was that?

167
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And then what was what?

168
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Is he slide, but he's shouting it over the noise?

169
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It's just...

170
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Can I tell you?

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I stayed in a hotel once, I had drilling like that going on all day and all night.

172
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It is agonising.

173
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Terry giving the line, like when they got the Klingon restaurant and Terry giving the line, it would be quieter. perfectly.

174
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Not playing it as a joke.

175
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Do you know what I mean?

176
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Just saying it as a line and letting the line be funny?

177
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is really good.

178
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Did you notice as well the reference to the Tillerman froth, which is from a T.R.?

179
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They love...

180
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That's one of the drinks in Troubles of Triples that they talk about.

181
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I'll have a Teleman froth, please.

182
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That's brilliant.

183
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I think that might be wrong more.

184
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He loves throwing in TRX references.

185
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Oh, God.

186
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Nathan, I don't know why, but I just love cameras going into Jeffrey's tubes like this.

187
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Yeah, yeah.

188
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Oh, this is this is lovely. don't you think?

189
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So Knox watching O'Brien do all the work and he's passing into his tools and then eventually he gets to a point where he just gives him the tool that he knows he's going to expect.

190
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And he's like, well, I've been paying attention, sir.

191
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Yeah, I think that's probably good, and it is sort of needed because then it explains why he's on the thing, and it reminds us of the relationship between the 2 of them, which makes the ending land, but I still can't help thinking that it's a better episode if it opens with the writer on the station.

192
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Where the smoke comes out.

193
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The whole bloody Jeffrey Stew fills with smoke.

194
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I mean, that dry ice is going right down their mouths.

195
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

196
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And so here we have Avery and Renee doing their bit, you know, and I just think that it takes too long to get started, don't you think?

197
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Well, we don't reach in Portland until about 5 minutes after the title music, don't we?

198
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So it's about 10 minutes into the episode.

199
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I don't think we need it.

200
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I think we can do all of this on Empok Nor, but because this is Star Trek in the 90s, it almost never does that.

201
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Like it almost never starts in the middle and then just lets it lets us kind of fills in the gaps with Klover Ryan.

202
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They tried to tie it into the ark.

203
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Has there been any dominion activity in the area?

204
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No, I don't think so, no.

205
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But the booby trapping facility before abandoning it.

206
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I would not be... for this mission.

207
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Would you?

208
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It does.

209
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No, no, it does.

210
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Yeah.

211
00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:00.720
Oh, and here we go.

212
00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:06.960
We're going to get all the red shirts coming in now. basically dead, dead, dead, and dead and dead.

213
00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:07.860
Yeah.

214
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:14.399
So, I think that's another point against it.

215
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.740
They can't kill a regular.

216
00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:18.419
They can kill a regular.

217
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.840
I mean, they can put them in serious danger, but yes.

218
00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:24.240
Well, yeah, but they can't.

219
00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:30.960
And I wonder what the version of this is like where Garrett gets killed at the end.

220
00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.220
What happens there?

221
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:34.679
Like, what if that was how it ended?

222
00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:36.360
And you couldn't do it.

223
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:37.200
The show ends.

224
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.039
You don't have Gary.

225
00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:39.960
Yeah, for the last 2 years.

226
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:42.000
And that would be no good at all.

227
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.299
So here are our red shirts.

228
00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:52.559
I like I like the Bolian, and I like the fella who is going for the Cardassian insignia.

229
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:54.659
But that's all we learn about him.

230
00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:00.000
Yeah, so Bokta is the bowling who has a very baggy, bald wig.

231
00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:02.519
Like, look how baggy he is.

232
00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:04.859
I'm claustrophobic.

233
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:06.059
Give me some air now.

234
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.180
The actor is not going to shave his head.

235
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.059
He's just going to wear a big bag on his head.

236
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.519
The 2 security people. are their names?

237
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:23.519
Uh, so Amaro is this bald guy who is a bit of a shithead and the woman is called Stoltzoff.

238
00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:25.799
I don't really care about those two.

239
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.299
I was quite happy when they both died.

240
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:30.480
Yeah, yeah, and Pichetti's the sort of...

241
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.460
I do feel that is the way with a horror movie, right?

242
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:33.839
It's a, you said more group of characters.

243
00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:35.160
Some you like and some you don't.

244
00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:38.279
And sort of, you're rooting for certain people to be bumped off.

245
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:50.160
I think there's definitely a scene where they make Amaro unlikeable so that you can cheer when he dies, but again, they're also thin and like they're going to kill all of them.

246
00:17:50.220 --> 00:18:01.980
Like, it is like, and you know it, like, you know it from the moment you see 4 red shirts having a conversation among them. 2nd I saw that, that's DS9, slightly askew hanging in space.

247
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:03.420
I'm like, they're all dead.

248
00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:07.019
Only the regulars are getting out of this.

249
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:08.160
Yeah, that's right.

250
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:09.000
That's right.

251
00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:12.119
But I think you could probably have guessed.

252
00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:26.279
Do you know what I mean if we've go, if we're going on a dangerous mission with Cardassian booby traps on a station and then we suddenly introduce 4 new characters, you think, well, I know why they're here. you know, they're pretty much here to be killed.

253
00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:29.099
The only thing I'll say in the defence of these 4 characters.

254
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:30.420
I think they're reasonably well played.

255
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.640
They're not our usual murder she wrote day players.

256
00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:33.779
They're actually quite well active.

257
00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.859
And they are as thin as every other red shirt in Star Trek.

258
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:38.579
Yeah, yeah.

259
00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:41.400
They never really get any characterisation, do they?

260
00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:43.200
You know, the arrow is on their back.

261
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:55.319
The collector thing, like there's some very kind of crapped dialogue there with O'Brien where he says we're not here to indulge your collecting conscience collecting or something.

262
00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:59.700
And it's just like, come on, like, what sort of who's talks like that?

263
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:00.660
That's crap.

264
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.519
You could make that point in some other way.

265
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.700
Yeah, yeah.

266
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:12.059
Can I just say, I haven't said this for a while, but how much I love that little guy in the spaceship kicking his way through his face?

267
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:17.039
I'm not sure what he's carrying and what he's taking to that upper pile on, but he means it.

268
00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:20.279
I appreciate that he's going to fucking do that job.

269
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:30.180
It's still somehow worse than the special effect of Lister painting the side of Red Dwarf from 1987.

270
00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:34.740
Well, it's them trying to do little CG people.

271
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.500
We know how well that goes when Enterprise comes along.

272
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:43.680
Uh, see our episode on um, in a mirror darkly and the landing on the moon.

273
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.920
Now, I have to say this game, what's it called?

274
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.079
I have no idea.

275
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.839
I want to say Calto, but that's the wrong game.

276
00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:52.619
We'll go with that.

277
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:57.839
Calto is the game that we play. that's the game that Tuvok and and thing I play.

278
00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:00.299
Tuvok and Kess play that game.

279
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.460
I do like the fact that Nog's playing it like a frog.

280
00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:04.019
Kochra. that it.

281
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:14.160
He's protecting his assets, whereas Garak's going on the attack and he's getting a bit frustrated with him, but I will say like every other ball game in existence, it looks very boring indeed.

282
00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:24.900
I love the line about trying to get a Ferengi to play this game without protecting his assets is like trying to get a Klingon to chew with his mouth.

283
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:25.380
What?

284
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.480
That races as well, though.

285
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:32.039
But it comes from Garak, so it's kind of okay, I think.

286
00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:34.440
But it's so trivial, you know what I mean?

287
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:40.859
It's like it's not to try, you know, it's, uh, uh, it's just hilariously trivial, I think.

288
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:43.140
Can I say something for Colomini very quickly?

289
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.339
Yeah.

290
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.880
I just think he can turn his hand to anything, this show frozen.

291
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:48.660
Oh, he's good.

292
00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:55.980
He's got a silver bullshit in this episode that he cares about these idiots that he's going on the mission with and he does.

293
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:57.660
Yeah, yeah.

294
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:05.819
So this is, I think, Garrett coming very close to the idea that Julian and Miles are just having sex on the holodeck.

295
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.660
So getting dressed up as fighter pilots and they're going to have sex.

296
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:10.319
Yeah.

297
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:17.460
Um, but, uh, so this is the set, like 3 stuff uh, that we had in the wounded.

298
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:19.019
That is his backstory.

299
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:21.839
Uh, that Deepstace 9 has it touched on it before?

300
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.839
Have we talked about him being in a Cardassian war much before?

301
00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:26.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

302
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:32.519
Because in the early seasons, there was that episode, Cardassians, where that really...

303
00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:34.200
Well, it's about the Cardassian.

304
00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:38.279
It should have an exclamation mark and it's a musical.

305
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:45.000
Cardassians that were centifagial and face the prejudice of the Bajorans because they were just abandoned there.

306
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:53.700
And O'Brien and Keiko take one in for the episode and O'Brien sort of prejudices come out for a while and Keiko calls him out in it a couple of times.

307
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:59.460
So we do we touch on his his racism a little bit in those early seasons.

308
00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:01.019
But yeah.

309
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:01.920
So what's the story?

310
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:06.900
He was in this fight and he wasn't an engineer at this point, was he?

311
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.099
He was an officer, but...

312
00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:13.680
No, so he says he was a soldier and he was serving with Maxwell from the wounded, remember?

313
00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:21.180
Something needed to be repaired in order for the ship to make the despisive, like the decisive shot that saved them all from the battle.

314
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:21.839
Is that right?

315
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:27.960
Oh, no, no, I think he just goes in there with a big gun and shoots a whole bunch of people as kind of my understanding what happened.

316
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:36.660
They don't go into a lot of detail about it, but I think he just shoots a lot of people and Garak says 20, 100, you know, what was it like watching the light guard in their eyes and stuff like that?

317
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.420
And all of that is all just a bit play.

318
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:40.259
Do you know what I mean?

319
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:41.220
Like that, like what?

320
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:43.799
You know, like, it's just not very interesting.

321
00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:47.460
Well, they're just trying to hang this stuff on something then, aren't they?

322
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:48.839
Yeah, yeah.

323
00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:58.619
So they're trying to find a way of making the conflict between Garak and O'Brien Matter.

324
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.880
And so, and that's the other thing that, and that's the other thing that happens earlier too.

325
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:10.140
And it happens a couple times in the episode where Garak is a little bit dismayed that people trust him.

326
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.619
That happens quite a few times during DS9 is wrong.

327
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:14.640
That's right.

328
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:22.680
We're 10 episodes away from um, around about 10 episodes away from in Purgatory Shadow by Inferno's Light.

329
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:27.480
Remember where we had Martoc and Worf saying what a great hero.

330
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:32.039
Garak was. you know, overcoming his claustrophobia to save them all.

331
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.539
He was one of the gang.

332
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:34.619
He was one of our guys.

333
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:35.579
Do you know what I mean?

334
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:37.799
And he'd been pretty much domesticated by this point.

335
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:52.140
And so there's a sense in which what this episode should be doing is trying to bray Matt back in again and trying to make him a little bit more of a loose cannon, a little bit less reliable. is in 2 episodes time.

336
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.980
He's got no place on the station when the Dominions take over.

337
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:57.359
He's got to go with the Federation.

338
00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:00.119
So now he's just an ally. on their side.

339
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:03.420
So all of this conveniently gets forgotten.

340
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:03.960
Yeah.

341
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:04.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

342
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.859
Oh, well, he'll be quite useful in this now impending war.

343
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.799
So we'll forget about those transgressions where he murdered those people.

344
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:15.180
Can I just say I thought the shots there?

345
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:33.000
So it was handheld camera work with Garak going through the airlock to turn the oxygen on and the best bit of trivia I've read in years was that special effects, man, was like, Mike Pajar came up to me and said, well, we want things suspended in space because he's going to turn the oxygen on and then they're going to fall to the ground.

346
00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:34.680
He's like, well, you're telling me on the day?

347
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:42.960
Um, so we just went out and bought some very thin wire and hung some props from it and then on you dropped a lot of them.

348
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:43.920
And it works.

349
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:45.599
Oh, yeah.

350
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:48.539
I never knew that that was how they did it and I thought it was really good.

351
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:54.720
And I do think that whenever they emphasise that the gravity is artificial, I think we need that.

352
00:24:54.779 --> 00:25:00.960
You know, like I think that's really good because that makes this a bit more scary because this is just home.

353
00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:03.359
Otherwise with the lights turned down, isn't it?

354
00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:06.960
And I think I think it looks too much like the station.

355
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:09.660
Like, I think that's because it is the station.

356
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:21.240
Well, yeah, I know, I know, but I think like they don't find an interesting new way of shooting it, whereas in strange new worlds, I think we were in very familiar sets, but they never felt like that.

357
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:25.920
You know, like you never felt that you knew the bit of the ship that we were in.

358
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:39.000
Whereas here, I mean, I'm going to make the very facetious comment that the set designer said about changing the carpet because the biggest difference she made was that the carpet and the promenade is all geometric shapes.

359
00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:41.400
She calls it artful in the quote.

360
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.720
And they've done what they've done they put a layer of gray carpet over the top.

361
00:25:45.839 --> 00:26:01.319
I do think there is, there is enough of a difference for me in that they have cleared out, obviously, all the people, and usually DS9 is teeming with people, especially the promenade, and and a lot of the set dressing, so it feels quite bare.

362
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.220
But yeah, you're right.

363
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.859
It looks like DS9 because it is DS9.

364
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:06.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

365
00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:12.180
But then again, you know, so we just had him pick up the chewing gum and now he's going to slowly go mad.

366
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:22.799
And I think until maybe halfway through the episode, Andy Robinson's on fairly short territory of how to play Garak, because it is just Garak a little bit agitated, it's kind.

367
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:26.700
It's when he's a complete psychopath, that's when things get very amusing.

368
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:29.880
I'm going to be doing so much quoting, you better prepare yourself.

369
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:33.660
I love this dead Cardassian, I have to say.

370
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.980
That's not bad, is it?

371
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.700
It's really good.

372
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:36.599
It is really good.

373
00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:37.079
Yeah.

374
00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:37.619
Yeah.

375
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.579
Desiccated.

376
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:39.180
Is that the word?

377
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

378
00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:42.059
I quite like that.

379
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:46.380
We've got a thing for pichetti, look, and a little badge for pichetti.

380
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.380
It's covered in dirt, which is flying through the air now.

381
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.700
I do like the light in it.

382
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:53.339
When they came in this room and it was all lit up from those blue pods.

383
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.559
Do you know what those blue pods are from, Nathan?

384
00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:56.880
No.

385
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:01.319
They are the pods created for the colonists in the thor.

386
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:02.700
Do you remember?

387
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:03.779
Oh wow.

388
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:04.619
Oh, okay.

389
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:11.099
Do you remember when they went in and they put B'lana and Harry Kim in a pair of those and yeah, yeah, all that fun ensued.

390
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:13.380
Oh, I love Aaron Eisenberg so much.

391
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:15.299
I do too.

392
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.599
Do you think the pods are there to remind us of alien as well?

393
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:25.140
Like, I know that they don't play quite that role that they play an alien, but they come out of a status point, which is how aliens start.

394
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.680
The way the camera slid in that room there alongside of me.

395
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:30.720
It's very light the way it does in aliens.

396
00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:31.500
That opening.

397
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:32.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

398
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:37.980
I mean, aliens always the thing that you go to for this stuff. goes to it for the music.

399
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.200
This scene was well shot as well, that is so good.

400
00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:52.440
The camera so he looks out the window and then it explodes and I love his line where he just says, that's not right, where he sees the runabout just drifting off into space.

401
00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:53.759
He's really good.

402
00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:56.700
And then that's a great cliffhanger. the explosion.

403
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.180
They look at his face and just, you know, do an exploding light.

404
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.160
Really effective.

405
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:03.359
Yeah.

406
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.000
And I was surprised by that too.

407
00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:07.920
I thought that was really good, you know.

408
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:14.220
Now there's lots of talk about, oh, are you telling me there's 2 Cardassians from the 3rd battalion loose on this station?

409
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:15.599
Oh my god, yeah.

410
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:16.259
Death to all.

411
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:17.759
That was their motto.

412
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:19.440
Oh my goodness.

413
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.279
Like, I'm really sorry.

414
00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:26.880
You guys were talking about booby trucks before you even left the station.

415
00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:30.299
You knew you were going to be a situation of extreme Beryl.

416
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:31.920
Why are you surprised?

417
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:36.779
Although, yeah, I have to think that they weren't expecting to lose the runabout.

418
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:38.940
That was that was a bit of a surprise.

419
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.160
I mean, that does up the stakes as well, doesn't it?

420
00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:42.059
They can't get away now.

421
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:42.960
Look at this.

422
00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:46.619
This is where we're trying to make a Maro unlikeable.

423
00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:48.960
You know, like he's being a pissy dickhead.

424
00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:51.299
We should finally... say hello.

425
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:53.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

426
00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:55.019
Oh, we're so tough, you know.

427
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.420
So we do kind of want a Maro killed.

428
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:59.759
So we'll be happy a little bit later.

429
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:04.019
I mean, they are so coded with just one beat, aren't they?

430
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:05.519
The Bolian is a wimp.

431
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:07.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

432
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.039
The one guy just wants the insignia.

433
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:13.319
Like you said, Amara's an asshole.

434
00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:15.059
Yeah, yeah.

435
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:15.660
Yeah.

436
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.839
So now we're getting an explanation.

437
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.180
Yeah, see, is this still too lit?

438
00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:21.839
don't know.

439
00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:26.460
Does he have to, you know, write to all their families when they go back and say, oh, I'm so sorry.

440
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:28.920
We did get the plasma manifold we were after though.

441
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.359
Yes.

442
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:31.740
Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

443
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:37.680
And Mrs. Amara does get a mention. so he has a wife, despite being a pissy dickhead.

444
00:29:37.740 --> 00:29:43.559
But like in, I don't know if you remember the ship. you know, when they find the crashed Cardassian ship.

445
00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:55.019
And in that, O'Brien's already established secondhand engineer, yeah, is killed in that episode and it's so movingly done because they've got an established relationship.

446
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.240
They've got shorthand with each other.

447
00:29:57.299 --> 00:30:03.960
When he dies, he's trying to keep him alive throughout the entire episode and then in the climax, he sort of goes over to see him and he just flops there.

448
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:09.240
And the whole sort of ending of that is dealing with the consequences of that and him contacting the family.

449
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.140
These people, who cares?

450
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:14.460
That's right.

451
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:15.180
That's right.

452
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.380
We've never seen them before.

453
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.000
They're obviously dead, so we never see them again.

454
00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:19.980
Have you noticed Garak scratching his hand.

455
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:20.759
Oh, legs.

456
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:28.920
Yeah, something's going on. that's right Like, all of this with Oprah, no, sorry, with Norgan, the gun going around.

457
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.019
I actually think this is a bit shit.

458
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:34.500
And I think, well, because...

459
00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:36.359
He's like, ours?

460
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.619
Yeah.

461
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:44.099
So we've got the dialogue that's happening in the background and the dialogue's fairly trivial Star Trek episode dialogue.

462
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:52.920
We can't tell where he is in relation to the Carnassian, although this shot where the Cardassian's face is immediately revealed out of the shadows is pretty good.

463
00:30:53.220 --> 00:31:00.720
But we don't get a sense of where everyone is in relation to one another.

464
00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:04.079
So we don't know how close he is to being under threat.

465
00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:04.559
I think.

466
00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:07.019
I just don't think that that scene works.

467
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:13.559
I mean, I got the sense there that the Cardassian was right next to Nog, because the camera sort of swung round and there Nog was.

468
00:31:13.619 --> 00:31:15.900
Yeah, but do you know what I mean?

469
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:17.039
Like, we're just sort of wandering.

470
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.420
And I don't even know what Nog's doing.

471
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.779
Like he's designed to go in there where the big gun and wave is coming.

472
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:22.559
Why is he doing that?

473
00:31:22.619 --> 00:31:24.480
That's why he's...

474
00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:25.380
Is that what he's doing?

475
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.420
Like, I just, I didn't know what was happening there.

476
00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:29.099
Oh, this is not the time to piss around.

477
00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:30.900
You're not on the horse now.

478
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.119
Oh, stupid.

479
00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:34.799
Oh, this is my favourite bit of the whole episode.

480
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:37.920
So this is straight out of a horror movie now.

481
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.859
So, you know, they hear something in the distance.

482
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.140
They think something's coming down in the lift.

483
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.579
Yeah.

484
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.440
And they get they separate.

485
00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:48.059
Of course they do because they're stupid.

486
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:49.140
Yeah.

487
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.640
Yes.

488
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:53.099
I I don't think this is too bad.

489
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:59.700
I have to say that there's a jump scare in this scene that just got me both times.

490
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:03.299
Every time I watch it, I never know when it's coming.

491
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:07.140
I know it's coming, but I don't know the exact beat where it's coming.

492
00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:08.880
Yeah, yeah.

493
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:15.119
I think that's really well done What helps is Jay Chatterway savvy enough to kill the music?

494
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:19.680
Mike Pajar very cleverly is putting in bangs and clangs in the distance.

495
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:27.299
So you're sort of distracted by the sound effects, and then the sound for the glass exploding is so loud.

496
00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:29.279
From nothing.

497
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.079
It really makes you jump back.

498
00:32:31.140 --> 00:32:32.220
Yeah.

499
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:35.220
But I think the episode needs more of that. needs more of that.

500
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:36.660
Don't just do it once. think it does.

501
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:41.279
Yeah, I think to really do this effectively you need more time.

502
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:43.559
And to care about the people.

503
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.200
Yeah, that helps as well.

504
00:32:46.259 --> 00:32:57.660
Um, and um, you know, like more skilled writers can make us care about people in less time than we've had here, but they don't do a very good job of that, I think.

505
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:01.140
But I'll repeat, I do think we have a skilled director putting this together.

506
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:02.160
Yes, yeah.

507
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:04.200
But I just don't think we have enough time.

508
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:06.180
Oh, it's coming down.

509
00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:07.859
Now, we'll be all right.

510
00:33:07.859 --> 00:33:11.880
Oh, you're a little bit ahead of me.

511
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:15.480
Thanks for the warming, Nathan.

512
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:22.019
Oh, and they love shoving people off this promenade, don't they, from the top level?

513
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.119
Yeah, yeah.

514
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.779
Just how many people have we seen thrown from that bridge now?

515
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:28.440
Oh no.

516
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:29.400
Quite a few.

517
00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:30.960
And the odd Vedec is...

518
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:32.579
Lovely old Vedic, hanging herself.

519
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:32.940
Yeah.

520
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:34.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

521
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:41.339
Yeah, so this isn't enough of a shock, I think, because we've watched TV before.

522
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:43.619
And so we kind of knew this was coming.

523
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:53.880
And I think we could probably guess from this point on, the remaining characters that will...

524
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:54.720
Yeah.

525
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:55.440
Yeah.

526
00:33:56.940 --> 00:34:00.599
Oh, I love the subtitles.

527
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:02.519
Glass crunching underfoot.

528
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:09.059
And that shot of Pichetti to take the out to the break is pretty good too.

529
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.420
Yeah, they're doing pretty good end of...

530
00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:15.360
What are they called?

531
00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:19.559
Yeah. end of act, I guess. yeah, yeah.

532
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:23.699
I think it did have the regular Star Trek, you know, music coming in at the end there.

533
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah. here, he's the ad break coming.

534
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:33.659
And that probably doesn't help either with the maintaining an atmosphere.

535
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:35.639
At this point, right, yeah.

536
00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:39.960
I would probably say, look, let's just get all our resources and try and go.

537
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:41.639
But no, he's like, right.

538
00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:45.599
Now, if you go and get the platinum manifolds, you go and get there.

539
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:46.800
I'm like, what are you doing?

540
00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:49.139
Like, everyone is gonna die.

541
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.079
Yeah But he does say it.

542
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:55.440
He does have a great line where he goes, what the hell am I going to say to their family?

543
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:57.239
So I've got this fabulous bit of equipment.

544
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.260
And so this, what about this?

545
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:02.340
This thing here.

546
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:08.820
So, um, Bokta, the Bolian, uh, doesn't want to just go with Amaro.

547
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:14.159
And um, and O'Brien says, oh, would you feel better if you went with Garrick?

548
00:35:14.219 --> 00:35:18.840
And Garrick says, yeah, I'm flattered, but I don't want to do that.

549
00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:23.039
I'm actually going to go off and neutralise those.

550
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.659
That's how you haven't got to worry about them anymore.

551
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:25.920
That's right.

552
00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:28.619
This shot here with the light above Garak.

553
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:34.980
That was a really nicely done shot because then we know when he's disarming because the light goes out, but it's just, it's, it's good shot.

554
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:36.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

555
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.320
Yeah.

556
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:52.739
I think, like, I just wonder, is there a version where we see the real Garak, like how willing he is to kill, and in a way, how much he relishes doing that, and that puts us off.

557
00:35:52.800 --> 00:36:02.519
Garak, you know, like, because this doesn't make us uneasy about Garak, because he does it for space reasons and he's back to normal in the infirmary at the end of the episode.

558
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:04.619
What do I say at the end?

559
00:36:04.619 --> 00:36:06.179
Is he going to a holding sale for a bit?

560
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.900
No, no, there will be an inquest.

561
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:11.699
Oh, so we'll never hear about it again.

562
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:13.500
That we'll never hear about.

563
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:14.579
No one will ever mention.

564
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:21.420
So it's literally a scene saying there will be no consequences to this episode is the subtext to that final scene.

565
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.599
And you just sort of think, wow, that was a...

566
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:31.619
You know, enough next adventure where Jake and Nog are trying to get that baseball card, you know, Garak walked into Dodo's office and went, what about that inquest?

567
00:36:31.739 --> 00:36:32.699
Is it ever going to happen?

568
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:33.539
Go away.

569
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.139
Go away.

570
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.119
Don't mention it.

571
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:39.659
The paperwork's been lost.

572
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.480
Yeah, that's it.

573
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:48.000
I've got more to say about that, too, because I think it's truly terrible.

574
00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:52.199
Yeah, the last word really does think this a lot.

575
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:53.039
So bad.

576
00:36:53.280 --> 00:37:06.900
But I noticed again there as well, in that scene on the promenade, just saying, just how well lit it was, how the faces were picked out in really interesting ways, because like DSI is a dark show, but it's not normally this dark.

577
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.340
No, that's right.

578
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:09.179
Yeah, yeah.

579
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:11.940
Yeah, I quite like this scene too.

580
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:17.579
Like the 1st killing, like the 1st Cardassian that he kills is pretty good.

581
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:23.460
And he looks like he's vulnerable because he's unaware where you see the guy advancing on him, but he doesn't.

582
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:25.260
And look how well lit that is.

583
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:26.579
We don't see his eyes at all.

584
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:27.599
We see sort of...

585
00:37:27.659 --> 00:37:31.260
Oh, there's his eyes suddenly appearing out of the darkness, but we don't...

586
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:33.840
I mean, the compass your makeup is pretty menacing anyway.

587
00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

588
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.519
But having this scene, and I do think it's well done.

589
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:39.480
It's well shot.

590
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:46.440
Doesn't this then make the scene where Garak stabs Amaro totally moot?

591
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.400
We know he's coming.

592
00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:51.539
He says at the end of this scene, I've quite enjoyed that when he murders the man.

593
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.239
So it's sort of preempting what's coming.

594
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:59.099
Whereas that moment, it would be shocking, even though I think it is very predictable the way it's shot.

595
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:06.480
Yeah, I, I think, like, it is sort of slightly shocking because it is shocking to see Garrett go there.

596
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:15.719
Um, but only if you think that actions will have consequences in the show, because you think, oh, he's murdered someone now, there's no coming back.

597
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:16.199
Come on now.

598
00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:23.699
I mean, in this empty room, where the fuck else would he be hiding, except in one of those pulse?

599
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.420
And that felt good is a little bit shit.

600
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:29.159
I think that's a bit too much.

601
00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:31.739
Let him say, let him act that.

602
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.719
Like, let let's see him act back.

603
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.239
He looked at the gun as well.

604
00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:38.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on.

605
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:49.679
And this was just, I was getting Wesley asking Tasha about why people take drugs vibes from this scene where...

606
00:38:49.739 --> 00:38:51.119
You used to be so savvy.

607
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:52.079
When did you become?

608
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.340
It's naive. right.

609
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:55.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

610
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:57.719
Now O'Brien will explain what a soldier is.

611
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:02.940
The best thing about this scene is how Garak very casually goes, 0 yeah, I killed one of them.

612
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:04.440
Nogs are cold.

613
00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:08.280
But, like, we really like the Pichetti would have appreciated it.

614
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:15.420
And it would be unheard of in TNG to have a regular character say, oh, yeah, I murdered someone just off the cuff.

615
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:16.739
Yeah.

616
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.960
And but the trouble is that because it's thrown away a little bit.

617
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.500
And because he's still being a bit camped.

618
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:26.159
Do you know what I mean?

619
00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:32.579
Like, it's kind of a little bit consequence free at this and it could have been enough to make us wary of Garak.

620
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:50.400
Like, if we discover that Garak is a killer and a reasonably enthusiastic and skilled killer, without him, you know, touching the chewing gum, you know, not for space reasons, but just because of his obsidian order training or whatever, his past, we could have made him properly scary.

621
00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:52.800
But then we don't want to go there.

622
00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:58.079
And that looked like what the episode was trying to do, was trying to pull it back a bit, make him less cuddly.

623
00:39:58.139 --> 00:40:06.420
O'Brien talks about it in a 2nd, right, about how much work Andy Robinson is doing with his eyes in this scene to suggest that he's under the influence.

624
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.380
Losing it, yeah.

625
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.260
Andy Robinson always does a lot of work with his eyes.

626
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.659
It's like Carac's eyes are boggled most of the time.

627
00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:16.920
Well, I think what they do is make him sweatier, don't they?

628
00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:24.599
Like, they make the makeup glisten more, like, as it goes on, he becomes clammier and sweatier looking.

629
00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:27.599
Which is, and that's clearly makeup.

630
00:40:27.659 --> 00:40:29.280
Well, that's okay, but I think that's okay.

631
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:33.119
And you could have done that anyway, but I just think, oh, so this scene, here we go.

632
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:34.860
Oh, yeah.

633
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:36.420
See now, I think this is a good death as well.

634
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:37.199
It's horrible.

635
00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:37.679
Yeah.

636
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:44.940
Well, what's horrible is that he just turns away for a 2nd and the guy's dead and like it was this terrible mistake and there's nothing he can do.

637
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:48.300
I think that's it's so throwaway. is really quite horrible.

638
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:50.639
I think the funniest line is here.

639
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:51.300
I'll show you.

640
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:55.860
It's not the ADR about the spoonheads, is it?

641
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:57.239
No.

642
00:40:57.300 --> 00:40:59.760
So I don't buy this, right?

643
00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:13.260
So there's some talk about using a racial slur here and the slur is spoonheads and we have... because our federation character says it that the writing team are so appalled that it slipped through as if you cannot be flawed.

644
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.559
But O'Brien has been being racist for, you know, 10 seasons now.

645
00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:24.480
And Kardassian just killed his friend Amaro and they say, oh, well, it never gets addressed.

646
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:25.739
And it's like, well, he gets fucking killed.

647
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:27.119
I mean, I don't know what you want.

648
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:28.739
You know, like what do you want?

649
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.199
And it's not a real racial slur.

650
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:33.300
No one's being called a spoonhead in the playground.

651
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:35.760
It's a pretend made up racial slur.

652
00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:37.679
It just doesn't matter that long.

653
00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:39.360
Did you not hear that in your playground?

654
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:42.719
Sorry, that was our preferred profanity, that was.

655
00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:44.099
Yeah, that's right.

656
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:50.400
What I really love is, yeah, is how southern it is, how you suddenly hear the kids scream.

657
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:53.340
He turns, and then his neck is just snapped.

658
00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:56.039
And it's just one tiny mistake that he's made.

659
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:58.800
They go to town on the sound effects.

660
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:01.079
It's horrible.

661
00:42:01.139 --> 00:42:02.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

662
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.400
And of all the 4 of them.

663
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:07.559
He's the most likeable, I think Napoleon.

664
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:09.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

665
00:42:09.179 --> 00:42:09.840
He's the sweet.

666
00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:10.380
I think so too.

667
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:11.159
Yeah.

668
00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:11.699
Yeah.

669
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:12.599
Oh, there we go.

670
00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:15.179
A little bit like, do you can't?

671
00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:16.260
Oh here we go.

672
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.579
I all do.

673
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:18.480
Was that racist?

674
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:19.860
Yeah, probably.

675
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.420
That's me, though.

676
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:22.559
I started it.

677
00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:28.739
Now, this be a riot, where Garak takes the flux coupler off him.

678
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.699
He's picked up the wrong tool and stabs him in the stomach with it.

679
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:40.920
Um, It is very obvious, but what I love about it is Jay Chataway goes to town with the, da, da, da.

680
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:45.539
I actually laughed out loud where he goes, oh, that's a shame.

681
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.519
It's not even a coil span.

682
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:48.719
The worst part of it is.

683
00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:51.059
It is in a coils manner.

684
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:52.980
And that is such a funny line.

685
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:58.619
And then they have to fuck it up with the flux, coupler, and you kind of go, so why do we have that extra line there?

686
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.960
that's not actually funny at the end of the joke.

687
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:02.340
Because like...

688
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.539
They have to explain what the technology is.

689
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:08.099
Of course they do.

690
00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:09.900
Because that is really funny.

691
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:11.159
The worst thing about it.

692
00:43:11.219 --> 00:43:13.320
Not the fact that...

693
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.659
The Michael Staprophe boy is dead.

694
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.500
He does have an apostrophe by the way.

695
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:23.280
I imagine all the fans incandescent with rage going, well, what was it?

696
00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:24.000
What was it?

697
00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:24.599
What was it?

698
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:25.980
We'll never know.

699
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:27.900
Fuck that guy.

700
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:28.440
What was it?

701
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:30.659
Oh bless him.

702
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.719
I do still think that is a great scene, though.

703
00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:35.940
Yeah.

704
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:38.400
Oh, and this is so this is so horror movie.

705
00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:42.239
So the person's dead, but he stays alive just long enough to tell them who killed him.

706
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:43.139
Just to deliver.

707
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.059
Yeah, so that we know that Garak did it.

708
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.940
Because otherwise we would just...

709
00:43:47.940 --> 00:43:49.019
He's dead.

710
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:49.559
That's it.

711
00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:50.099
There he is.

712
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.260
Yep, that's it.

713
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:52.739
He's gone.

714
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:54.780
Yes, you should have seen this coming.

715
00:43:56.219 --> 00:43:58.860
But a bit of blood around the mouth there.

716
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:00.300
Yeah, yeah.

717
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:01.860
They been a bit more simple?

718
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:03.599
with the blood, you know, in series 5.

719
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:06.179
But not liberal enough.

720
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:15.420
And, you know, again, our gone episode from series one where we just had boy all over the floor and up the walls and stuff.

721
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:20.460
And even that episode, it was the felon that got dragged down the corridor, the trail of blood.

722
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.320
Oh, that was wonderful.

723
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:33.780
The tardigrade ripping people up in that series one early series one discovery episode, which again is Star Trek doing this in the ship.

724
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:34.679
Do you know what I mean?

725
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.119
It's the Discovery sistership, as usual, you know, dark.

726
00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:41.099
It's on an angle, I think.

727
00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:44.400
On an angle, I'll say.

728
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:45.179
Are the lights down?

729
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:46.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the lights are down.

730
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:51.539
I think they do a better job because they have more money and because Nathan, this.

731
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:55.500
He goes, he literally goes, the psychotropic drug.

732
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:56.880
He must have been exposed to it.

733
00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.980
Well, thanks, I brought it.

734
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:02.940
He's been scratching his fucking hand for the last 2 acts.

735
00:45:03.059 --> 00:45:09.900
He does need to say that, though, because he didn't see him touch the drug.

736
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:11.519
Do you know what I mean?

737
00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:17.519
He didn't see him touch it, and he has to think that this isn't just Garrick's going crazy and started killing people.

738
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:19.559
So he does have to deliver that line.

739
00:45:19.619 --> 00:45:23.039
It just feels like it's really bad.

740
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:25.019
There's a great horror movie line there.

741
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:30.360
Aaron Eisenberg delivered brilliantly where he went, he's coming after us, isn't he?

742
00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:31.920
Oh my god.

743
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:34.260
Oh my god.

744
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:36.480
Aaron's watched TV before as well.

745
00:45:36.539 --> 00:45:37.139
He's great.

746
00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:49.500
Do you know, I heard somebody make an argument the other day on a YouTube video that Nog had the best character development of pretty much any other character in Star Trek, and it was a compelling case.

747
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.139
I think I think they did a great job with him.

748
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:57.659
Well, he doesn't even get a line in that 1st episode where you see him robbing somewhere and being captured, don't we?

749
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:01.679
It's a lieutenant in the... what you leave behind is about to be promoted.

750
00:46:01.739 --> 00:46:06.239
Yeah, see, he gets promoted in a way that even Harry Kim doesn't.

751
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:12.780
So now it's a lot of sort of walking around dark rooms with the guns, you know, all very exiles with the lights going everywhere.

752
00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:15.719
Yeah, I think this is where it gets boring.

753
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:16.800
Yeah, I think you're right.

754
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:19.019
I think from the 2nd he stabs tomorrow.

755
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:20.820
That's where this falls off the cliff.

756
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:22.019
But, yeah, yeah.

757
00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:36.539
And it tries to bring it all together because now he starts talking about the board game and he starts talking about O'Brien's backstory and he's trying to use the location to trap them and it just doesn't come together in the way it wants to.

758
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.420
No, and it's all of the writing things that they've set up.

759
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:46.199
You know, the board game is there to give Garak a chance to talk about character and stuff like that, but it doesn't really go anywhere.

760
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:49.440
I can see why they're like, oh, yeah, okay.

761
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:50.940
This all dovetails beautifully.

762
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.860
But he's even saying it.

763
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:57.539
He's saying, what a perfect metaphor for our current situation this game is.

764
00:46:57.599 --> 00:46:59.099
It's kind of like, come on.

765
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:05.280
Anyone would think Britain was game in the shuttlecross would have provided this perfect metaphor.

766
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:07.380
What a metaphor.

767
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:14.159
I've seen many many many a DS9 shot down a corridor like that with the camera on the floor.

768
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

769
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:18.059
So Mike for Giles getting bored now as well.

770
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:21.420
So that's kind of crap.

771
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:22.739
All of that sort of crap.

772
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:30.119
There's that line that you pointed to where it's just like, you might be wondering why I'm not killing you and it's because you're a regular character, even though I have this big gun.

773
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:33.360
And like, it's all just a little bit shit.

774
00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:41.699
And, and I actually think that the, the hanging the dead bodies of the red shirts look stupid.

775
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:44.280
Oh, it's so funny.

776
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:49.199
They look like they're in like sexual harnesses in some sauna.

777
00:47:49.260 --> 00:47:52.980
And like Monctar is just standing there.

778
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.079
No, like, what's happening there?

779
00:47:55.139 --> 00:47:57.000
They hang babies from doors.

780
00:47:57.059 --> 00:47:58.500
It looks a bit like that.

781
00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:00.960
It's really bad.

782
00:48:01.019 --> 00:48:02.039
It's not gory.

783
00:48:02.099 --> 00:48:03.360
Do you know what I mean?

784
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:04.380
Like, it's not gory.

785
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.500
It just looks good. horror movie, but you would have lopped the heads off or something.

786
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:08.880
I have all the heads lying around.

787
00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:09.719
Yeah, that's right.

788
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:13.260
So this is like it just can't do it because it's PG horror for children.

789
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.900
And like all horror movies I find.

790
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:16.199
Yeah.

791
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:20.340
The 2nd, like the threat is revealed and out in the open.

792
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:22.380
It just loses all interest for me.

793
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:25.920
I like all the atmospheric stuff in horror movies in the 1st half the films.

794
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:32.699
But the realisation of the antagonist is always pretty dull and it is here.

795
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:33.360
Yeah, yeah.

796
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:37.380
And this is dull because it is like someone doing this for literally no reason at all.

797
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.699
You know what I mean?

798
00:48:38.699 --> 00:48:39.960
Like, fair to Andy Robinson.

799
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:44.039
It looks like I've captured your last piece, chief.

800
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:45.599
Oh my god.

801
00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:50.519
Oh, bless him.

802
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:51.960
Well, he's trying to have fun.

803
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:57.659
Oh, this is, I was watching the camera here as he goes around this set.

804
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.539
He does lots of swooping around Ops.

805
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.400
Yeah, yeah.

806
00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:03.900
Actually, that's okay.

807
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:05.760
It looks quite nice all this up in the dark.

808
00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:07.860
Yeah, yeah.

809
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:11.940
I like the those lights that go up the side, which I'm just noticing.

810
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.639
Yeah, but again, like I'm super bored at this point.

811
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:15.360
What's happening here?

812
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:17.940
This is the most exciting game I played in years.

813
00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:19.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

814
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:22.860
But that, like, it brings out the player's true nature.

815
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.719
This is, again, a writer thing.

816
00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:25.380
Do you know what I mean?

817
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:27.840
Like I'm a killer, you're a killer, blah, blah, blah.

818
00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:30.239
I don't think Garak was ever this person.

819
00:49:30.300 --> 00:49:45.900
I didn't ever foresee Garak in the past as just a cold-blooded killer. somebody who was a bit of a sadist, you know, who went into interrogations and subtly, you know, sadistically tortured people in order to extract information.

820
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:47.760
That's how I saw Garag.

821
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.960
Yeah, but and all of this doesn't land and doesn't matter.

822
00:49:52.019 --> 00:49:53.219
Like, it's so boring.

823
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:57.719
You know, you were a soldier and you killed a bunch of people and how did you feel about it and stuff.

824
00:49:57.780 --> 00:50:00.059
It's just like, come on, how many times have we seen that?

825
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.320
That's really super...

826
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:08.219
Yeah, you, you, you, you, drain out of their eyes.

827
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:09.599
Yeah, blah, blah, blah.

828
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:15.059
It's all boring See, and now it's become now, you know, we had all those scenes in silence, didn't we, earlier?

829
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:17.579
Now it's all dialogue. talking.

830
00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:18.119
Yeah.

831
00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:18.960
All talking.

832
00:50:19.019 --> 00:50:25.139
And it's, you know, he's under the influences of some plot drug and so none of this matters, you know.

833
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:29.280
Meet me on the promenade and try to avoid the baby growers.

834
00:50:29.579 --> 00:50:31.920
Yeah, for God's sake.

835
00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:33.239
But why?

836
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:35.760
I mean, like, what if they killed him?

837
00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:38.219
What if, you know, that's how they kill him?

838
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:40.980
I think that would have been boring, actually, that's not doing that.

839
00:50:41.099 --> 00:50:48.420
No, I still like my version, which, again, is a little bit less shocking because it doesn't have Garrett killing anyone.

840
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:57.480
But Garrett killing someone is only pretend shocking because he's under the influence of a drug and so no one blames him for having done it.

841
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:04.380
And no one feels any the worse about him as a result, except maybe Mrs. Amaro.

842
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:09.360
Do you think there's a problem here that, because I think O'Brien's a great character.

843
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:15.179
I think Garak's a great character and I think Nog's a great character in that because we only have these characters.

844
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:16.440
They're just too good to kill.

845
00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:19.559
So we know they're never going to be in any danger, you know?

846
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:24.900
Well, no, but I don't think I don't think we have to think characters are in danger for there to be drama.

847
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.460
You know, like I think that's normal.

848
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:28.559
We watch TV, which I'm hanging there.

849
00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:29.760
No, aren't they?

850
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:30.480
That's so bad.

851
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:33.780
I think they've cleaned tomorrow's face.

852
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.420
Like Amara doesn't have blood all over him anymore.

853
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.159
Garak must have cleaned it off.

854
00:51:38.219 --> 00:51:40.139
The music is...

855
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:43.440
It's like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

856
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:48.659
It's very, very, um, What's the word I'm looking for?

857
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:51.360
Oh, no, no, instead of dramatic and stuff.

858
00:51:51.420 --> 00:52:02.159
I like how this resolves itself, and I love, I love how, you know, it relies on his ability as an engineer.

859
00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:03.539
I think that's pretty good.

860
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.820
You know, that's not bad.

861
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:09.059
And I did like the line, you know, any closer.

862
00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:09.900
You might have killed me.

863
00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:11.460
And he goes, well, that was the idea.

864
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:12.360
That was the idea.

865
00:52:12.539 --> 00:52:15.300
We're all friends again in that scene.

866
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:16.440
Do you know what I mean?

867
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:18.360
Like he kind of goes, yes, I understand.

868
00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:23.699
So there's that there is that tiny bit of tension between him and no player, but there's never any tension between him and O'Brien.

869
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.139
No.

870
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:26.159
No.

871
00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:28.079
No, and they clean it up at the end.

872
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:33.059
Like, they absolutely, that final scene is there to say, don't worry, none of this makes any difference.

873
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:35.940
It was just a fun horror movie for you.

874
00:52:35.940 --> 00:52:37.320
That's right.

875
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:38.460
Before we get to the good stuff.

876
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:45.059
But I do think that in a show that is otherwise serialised, you know, it always happens, doesn't it?

877
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:52.139
They do things and then they drop them, you know, they don't take them up and they're making it up as they go along and that's a good thing. you know.

878
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:59.280
Until they do, until they do things like inquisition, you know, where ties up 15 plot threats that they've left hanging.

879
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:02.639
Here we go.

880
00:53:02.699 --> 00:53:06.420
So he's put he's putting his, what, his tricorder on top of his phaser.

881
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:08.880
His phaser on top of his strike order.

882
00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:18.420
He's set the tricorder to explode, thus taking the phaser up with it and hopefully killing Garak.

883
00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:20.099
Yes, that's right.

884
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:23.940
So he sends a message from his Apple Watch to his iPhone and it explodes.

885
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:25.500
That is such a shit line.

886
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:30.000
Oh, I'm tempted to kill you right now, but I would be depriving myself of too much enjoyment.

887
00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:31.860
Oh, come on.

888
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:32.579
I know.

889
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:35.099
And this... standing there.

890
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.619
What are they standing there like, that's not...

891
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:40.980
It reminds me of a bit of arena now, you know?

892
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:43.920
Because the Gordon's got claws.

893
00:53:44.099 --> 00:53:56.219
So again, we've said that there's something slightly cheap, you know, like a fist fight in a Star Trek episode is a way of doing action, and we have had a lot of standing around talking.

894
00:53:56.519 --> 00:53:59.340
They're still talking now while they're fine.

895
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:01.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

896
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:03.900
I expected to see that blood lust in your eyes, cheap.

897
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:05.159
Oh, I see is fair.

898
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.440
Come on.

899
00:54:07.500 --> 00:54:08.159
Yeah.

900
00:54:08.219 --> 00:54:09.900
Just, it's all a bit shit.

901
00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:11.219
Kick him in the nuts.

902
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:16.079
You're not a soldier.

903
00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:16.980
I am not a soldier.

904
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.079
I'm an engineer. you.

905
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.579
What a lesson.

906
00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:22.860
That is okay.

907
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.260
I brought an engineer, I never knew.

908
00:54:25.980 --> 00:54:28.199
He's never mentioned it.

909
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:33.840
To be fair, that explosion does knock Garak stump doubles.

910
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:36.059
Right back there, doesn't it?

911
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:37.199
Yeah, yeah, it really does.

912
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:37.980
It really does.

913
00:54:38.340 --> 00:54:40.920
Yeah, you just remember there's Nog all about.

914
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:41.579
You all right, Nog?

915
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:42.900
Yeah, yeah, I'm all right, though.

916
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:43.739
I'm good.

917
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:47.099
We'll be hunting that card next week.

918
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:47.519
Don't worry.

919
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.159
I remember right.

920
00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:53.340
There was a series of reviews in DreamWatch magazine.

921
00:54:53.340 --> 00:55:02.099
And by the time you got to win the cards, because, you know, the last episode was Blaze of Glory, which had that fabulous subplot with Nog and Martoc, do you remember?

922
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:07.260
Yeah, and by the time it got to win the cars, the guy went, enough nog already.

923
00:55:07.380 --> 00:55:09.300
I mean, you just can't have enough of him.

924
00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:10.380
Come on.

925
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:11.099
Yeah, shut up.

926
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:12.000
That's ridiculous.

927
00:55:12.059 --> 00:55:13.320
Enough nog already.

928
00:55:13.619 --> 00:55:15.360
Yeah, okay.

929
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:16.980
So this scene.

930
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:29.340
I really, really, I really want, you know, uh, um, yes, uh, Dr. Bashir has brought, you know, with his usual skill.

931
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:32.519
And so that's it.

932
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:34.500
If movie ad break is now okay.

933
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.440
He's not the same man who attacked us, blah, blah, blah.

934
00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:38.519
None of this matters.

935
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:41.159
Brought Amaro back to life with his usual skill.

936
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:43.559
No, no, no.

937
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:46.440
We don't really like that guy anyway, so...

938
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:47.099
Yeah, we didn't.

939
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:47.820
He was an asshole.

940
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:50.400
He should be all right in a few days.

941
00:55:50.460 --> 00:55:53.039
Then we go up here and they're smiling at each other.

942
00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:55.199
You know, like it just doesn't go anywhere.

943
00:55:57.780 --> 00:56:05.579
Only in Star Trek, could you be trying to murder somebody in one scene and then sort of going, well, hope you're all right in the next scene.

944
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:08.760
Yeah, look, he's looking, he'd been embarrassed.

945
00:56:08.820 --> 00:56:12.360
I think he's embarrassed by having that enormous contraction on his forehead.

946
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:14.460
That's right.

947
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:16.800
We got the plasma mouth.

948
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:18.480
I love mission accomplished. actually.

949
00:56:18.539 --> 00:56:21.000
I think he's a pretty funny line giving.

950
00:56:21.059 --> 00:56:23.699
And then I guess it didn't go the way anyone expected.

951
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:24.539
It's just like, what?

952
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:28.320
You were talking about booby traps before you left the station.

953
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:29.400
Yes.

954
00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:30.059
Yes.

955
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:31.559
It's so dumb.

956
00:56:31.619 --> 00:56:37.079
And there's going to be an inquest which she never mentioned again, but like it's so terrible.

957
00:56:37.139 --> 00:56:39.780
Oh, yeah, because he says this.

958
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:41.159
You remember that fella all stabbed?

959
00:56:41.219 --> 00:56:42.780
Would you mind just telling his wife?

960
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:44.460
I'm very sorry about that.

961
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:45.360
I feel bad.

962
00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:50.099
I touch some blue passer scene and, well, you know, the rest was history.

963
00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:52.679
Oh, for God's sake.

964
00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:56.519
Like, it's just absolutely taming him as well.

965
00:56:56.579 --> 00:57:00.119
Andy Robinson was bang on with his instincts about the script.

966
00:57:00.179 --> 00:57:00.539
Yeah.

967
00:57:00.539 --> 00:57:01.860
Yeah, yeah.

968
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:02.820
I think it's a mistake.

969
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:04.260
I don't think it's a mistake.

970
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:11.760
And I think there is a way of doing it that does it without space reasons, but also does it without him murdering a crew member.

971
00:57:11.820 --> 00:57:14.099
You know, which is a bit better.

972
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:16.619
But it's clearly a direction that they don't want to go in.

973
00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:24.599
Like he does become more a part of the our gang and does become more reliable and trustworthy, however much he complains about it.

974
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:34.800
The admittedly fabulous opening scene of a call to arms in 2 episodes time is Garak showing wedding dresses to Lita and Rome.

975
00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:38.639
And then...

976
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:39.780
Does anyone remember?

977
00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:40.980
They killed people last week.

978
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:43.320
Two weeks ago or was it last week?

979
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:44.519
It was 2 weeks ago.

980
00:57:45.659 --> 00:57:49.679
I've showed you every dress.

981
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:53.519
I've showed you every dress in my repertoire and you haven't liked any of them.

982
00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:55.260
I'm gonna kill you.

983
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.639
Oh, God, in the cars has started.

984
00:57:59.699 --> 00:58:01.260
Oh, why don't we do that instead?

985
00:58:01.380 --> 00:58:03.659
So good. so great.

986
00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:06.960
There's always something, Nathan, that will make you smile.

987
00:58:07.019 --> 00:58:08.400
He says at the end, doesn't he?

988
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:09.780
Such a good episode.

989
00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:11.099
Gorgeous. so great.

990
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:13.679
A bit more gorgeous than the one we just watched.

991
00:58:13.739 --> 00:58:15.059
But we did have pub with it.

992
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:16.440
Oh, yeah.

993
00:58:16.500 --> 00:58:17.699
Like, I don't think it's terrible.

994
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:25.980
I don't feel like I wasted my time and stuff and I do think most of the problems with it. problems just inherent to kind of 90s TV.

995
00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:28.619
You know, like it's just a thing.

996
00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:35.639
Oh, I think if you took away Mike Vajar and Jay Chatterway, it would be a very lousy episode.

997
00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:39.059
I mean, you still have those actors in there and they're good.

998
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:45.179
But they were in the episode and they're part of the episode and it's their job to make it good and they do that.

999
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:45.960
So that's okay.

1000
00:58:46.019 --> 00:58:52.440
I think, like, as we said, so the script stuff is a little bit on the nose and a little bit too much.

1001
00:58:52.500 --> 00:59:00.719
And I didn't notice until this time through where Garrick says, this game is a perfect metaphor for our relationship.

1002
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:01.260
Fuck off.

1003
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:10.260
O'Brien should look at the camera and goes, yes, we do this from time to time on Star Trek, don't we?

1004
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:12.000
That's right.

1005
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:14.280
The trouble is bad.

1006
00:59:14.340 --> 00:59:17.519
The trouble is, I don't have that. can't hang a lantern on anything.

1007
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:27.719
That sort of fear of subtext, you know, what if what if those nerds miss this?

1008
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:37.739
What if they don't understand that the reason that we're banging on about Kotra is because it gives us a way to talk about the characters, it's a bit, that's a little bit cheesy.

1009
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:49.500
Or even worse. is the other things we pointed out as well, you know, saying what the piece of technology is before he stabs tomorrow, explicitly telling the audience, you know, he's coming after us.

1010
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:53.099
And this is why, you know, trust us.

1011
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:54.480
We are watching the episode.

1012
00:59:54.539 --> 00:59:55.679
That's right.

1013
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:56.340
That's right.

1014
00:59:56.400 --> 01:00:03.300
So there's that, and there is, of course, the fact that this is just, you know, Garak has to be selling a wedding dress in a fortnight's time.

1015
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:06.300
So everything goes back to normal.

1016
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:07.380
I hadn't realised that.

1017
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:08.099
That's really great.

1018
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:19.380
I mean, I'll probably just sum it up as, I don't think this is great, but kudos for the deaths, because I do think the deaths are pretty great until they're put in the baby growers.

1019
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:20.940
Yeah, no, that's silly.

1020
01:00:27.719 --> 01:00:42.360
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work out where we're going next, and inspired by Inner Mirror Darkly, which we just watched a couple of episodes ago.

1021
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:45.659
I'm choosing, no, I'm not really choosing Enterprise again.

1022
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:49.800
I want us to do Star Trek the original series.

1023
01:00:50.820 --> 01:00:52.559
A great choice.

1024
01:00:53.159 --> 01:01:02.579
I don't think I've watched an episode of Star Trek, the original series for entire Star Trek project that I haven't really enjoyed talking about, even when it's been awful.

1025
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:05.219
I know you struggled a few times, but yeah.

1026
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:06.659
No, no, no.

1027
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:08.579
I quite like it even when it's a bit awful.

1028
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:09.360
I have to say.

1029
01:01:09.420 --> 01:01:18.360
This is the only time in my Star Trek journey where I have managed to achieve a real appreciation for those 1st 2 seasons.

1030
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:19.619
So let's do it.

1031
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:21.119
Let's do it.

1032
01:01:21.179 --> 01:01:21.539
All right.

1033
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:33.179
Your random Star Trek, the original series episode is Spock's Brain, which we covered in episode 11 of... that you struggled with?

1034
01:01:33.239 --> 01:01:35.159
Yeah, that's really bad.

1035
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.960
Not in a fun way.

1036
01:01:37.019 --> 01:01:38.639
Apart from the miniskirts.

1037
01:01:39.179 --> 01:01:43.559
Okay, season two, episode nine, metamorphosis.

1038
01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:46.440
I have no idea what that's about.

1039
01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:49.320
That's such a nothing title, isn't it?

1040
01:01:49.380 --> 01:01:50.340
It's like a session.

1041
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:52.079
I'll go to our usual resource.

1042
01:01:52.139 --> 01:01:53.820
Jama.

1043
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:58.320
Just so we can see your, how many stars he gave it.

1044
01:01:58.320 --> 01:01:59.280
Right, Siri.

1045
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:00.300
How many bams he gave it?

1046
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:02.039
Metamorphosis.

1047
01:02:02.099 --> 01:02:02.400
Okay.

1048
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:15.360
Kirk, Spock, McCoy and a Federation negotiator become stranded when their shuttle is sucked into a celestial body by a mysterious force that has somehow revitalised Zefram Cochrane.

1049
01:02:15.420 --> 01:02:20.820
The man who invented war drive 2 centuries before, 3 stars out of four.

1050
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:23.760
So just a bit better than Ben.

1051
01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:24.539
Slightly.

1052
01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:25.679
Slightly.

1053
01:02:25.739 --> 01:02:34.079
I think I've seen that a long time ago, I think, because I certainly remember Zefron Cochrane. who is nowhere near as fun as James Cromwell.

1054
01:02:34.380 --> 01:02:37.019
Is that from Cochrane back in the 60s?

1055
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:40.559
I guess we'll never know because I'm pressing the button in.

1056
01:02:41.579 --> 01:02:47.219
It's series two, just 3 episodes later, episode 12.

1057
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:49.679
The deadly years.

1058
01:02:49.739 --> 01:02:51.599
Oh that sounds wonderful.

1059
01:02:51.719 --> 01:02:52.739
Let's see what it's about.

1060
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:54.780
Um, a disease.

1061
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:55.559
Oh, not a good start.

1062
01:02:55.619 --> 01:03:06.719
A disease that causes rapid ageing affects several members of the enterprise crew, and eventually leaves the captain's senile, oh, latex, and unable to command the ship.

1063
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:09.239
Oh, it sounds...

1064
01:03:09.300 --> 01:03:13.500
It's the one like the USS, what is it?

1065
01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.599
The Britain or something?

1066
01:03:15.659 --> 01:03:16.559
What's that one called?

1067
01:03:16.619 --> 01:03:18.659
It's going a really boring title.

1068
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:27.179
It's in series 2 of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and it's Poor Old Pulaski covered in latex.

1069
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:28.260
Oh, okay, yes.

1070
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:29.880
Oh, poor Diana Mulder.

1071
01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:31.679
They make her hideous, don't they?

1072
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:41.760
Oh, I mean, I'm just looking at the review on Jammers now and he says that there is, in fact, a hearing in the middle of it, a bit like, you know, the Scotty Murder one.

1073
01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:43.079
So let's not do that one.

1074
01:03:43.139 --> 01:03:48.059
We can't have another 10 minute sequence of people sitting around the table talking about the episode.

1075
01:03:48.239 --> 01:03:50.340
Well, how about this one?

1076
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.380
Bread and circuses.

1077
01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:54.480
Season 2, episode 25.

1078
01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:57.599
Very keen on season 2 right now, aren't you?

1079
01:03:57.659 --> 01:04:00.300
Apparently, the Randomisers got a thing for it.

1080
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:01.380
Right, here we go.

1081
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:11.579
A landing party beams down to a parallel earth that resembles 20th century Rome upon which Kirk Spock and McCoy are taken prisoner.

1082
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:14.940
Oh, that sounds gold. 20th century Rome.

1083
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:15.539
Sounds great.

1084
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:18.780
Lots of lovely pasta people driving Lamborghinis.

1085
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:22.139
Women dressed fabulously.

1086
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:29.099
I think I've seen it and I think it has the cheesiest ending of any Star Trek, an indefensibly cheesy ending.

1087
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:31.679
And if you haven't seen it, I want to hear your reaction.

1088
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:32.460
I never, ever seen this.

1089
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:33.960
Gemma gets this.

1090
01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:36.539
2.5 stars.

1091
01:04:36.599 --> 01:04:38.099
So exactly the same.

1092
01:04:38.099 --> 01:04:38.880
One Bam.

1093
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:40.260
One, one, one.

1094
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:44.820
And so this is well executed but completely by the numbers.

1095
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.539
Well, that's what we've just watched in...

1096
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:51.420
That seems to be the theme.

1097
01:04:51.480 --> 01:05:04.500
And it is my role, even though I choose, I've chosen quite a good series this time to bring the mediocrity, I think, seems to be my role on the randomiser.

1098
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:05.219
So what do you think?

1099
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:06.179
Bread and circuses?

1100
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:09.420
20th century Rome, bring it on baby.

1101
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:28.800
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1102
01:05:28.860 --> 01:05:34.079
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1103
01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:39.900
This episode was recorded on the 27th of August 2024 and released on the 30th of August.

1104
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:44.340
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the original series, Bread and Circuses.

1105
01:06:02.699 --> 01:06:05.579
Oh, it's gonna be terrible, isn't it?

1106
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:10.260
It's, I think it is pretty terrible, and the ending is super cheesy.

1107
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:12.000
Like terrible.

1108
01:06:12.059 --> 01:06:22.860
Kirk's pop and bones are caught and imprisoned and scheduled to face death if Kirk doesn't agree to turn over the rest of the Enterprise crew for use in their televised deadly arena games.

1109
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:25.019
Oh god, this sounds glorious.

1110
01:06:25.139 --> 01:06:30.300
Yeah, see, it's not 20th century Rome. 20th century ancient Rome, that's the thing.

1111
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:31.980
Like, because 20th century Rome.

1112
01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:35.400
I was in 20th century Rome, at least once.

1113
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:36.599
It was lovely, you know.

1114
01:06:36.659 --> 01:06:38.400
Televised game.

1115
01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:43.019
So is this a bit, a bit, um, Is this a talking about television?

1116
01:06:43.139 --> 01:06:44.340
This episode.

1117
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:45.659
Like making television.

1118
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:56.219
Actually, that is kind of interesting, but it is, you know, making television, but it's gladiatorial games on TV because it's Rome, but it's in the 20th century with present-day technology.

1119
01:06:56.699 --> 01:07:13.980
And it's also that thing which Star Trek sort of abandons a little bit-ish, which is that other planets have parallel development, so you can go to the Hitler planet and you can go to the, you know, the ancient Rome planet and stuff, the cowboy planet.

1120
01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.079
Like it kind of abandons that a little bit.

1121
01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:32.519
There's a delightful um, Earth colony in the last episode of series 2 of Strange New Worlds, which it's like, and we've modelled our colony on a beautiful 20th century kind of village or something, and it's the design is really wonderful.

1122
01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:37.920
It's kind of like, oh, this is Star Trek doing this in 2023 and I'm so totally here for it.

1123
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:39.960
Yeah, with money.

1124
01:07:40.019 --> 01:07:42.420
So that is a very strange thing.

1125
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:46.079
This is one before Simon Earth, obviously.

1126
01:07:46.139 --> 01:07:47.280
Okay.

1127
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:49.980
And obviously 2 before series three.

1128
01:07:50.039 --> 01:07:55.500
So this is our chance to learn whether Star Trek, in fact, got bad in series or not.

1129
01:07:55.619 --> 01:07:59.579
Or was already bad, which is probably what's going to happen, I think.

1130
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:05.880
Yeah, I think two's got great episodes in it, but it is a little hit and miss.

1131
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:09.179
Obsession, you were you were less so about that one.

1132
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:14.880
Well, I thought obsession was good in retrospect, but when I 1st saw it, I thought, 0 my god, this is barely competent.

1133
01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:18.000
You know, like it's just kind of, and it is that thing.

1134
01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:26.220
Like, um, my friend Matthew sent me a list of someone's list of bottom 5 episodes of Star Trek.

1135
01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:32.699
And I can't remember which one it was, but they said this is the only episode of Star Trek that's completely incompetent.

1136
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:39.779
And like we'd already said, I think, sometimes you chewed it, because like dagger of the mind wasn't even on that list, not dagger of the mind.

1137
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:42.659
Wolf in the fold wasn't even on that.

1138
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:48.420
No, what was what was the one with the man who was just bonkers.

1139
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:49.319
You killed the green woman.

1140
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:50.100
Do you remember?

1141
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:52.079
Yeah, isn't that dagger of the mind?

1142
01:08:52.140 --> 01:08:53.520
Or whom God's destroyed?

1143
01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:54.539
when God's destroyed?

1144
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:55.560
Barely complicated.

1145
01:08:55.619 --> 01:08:56.760
Yeah, yeah.

1146
01:08:56.819 --> 01:08:57.720
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1147
01:08:57.779 --> 01:08:58.979
It's kind of like, what are you doing?

1148
01:08:59.039 --> 01:08:59.939
Like, what?

1149
01:08:59.939 --> 01:09:03.060
Actually, that did have a Tellerite that didn't look shit in it.

1150
01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:05.699
And that woman did explode on that roll.

1151
01:09:05.819 --> 01:09:07.500
The exploding green woman.

1152
01:09:07.560 --> 01:09:08.279
Which was great.

1153
01:09:08.579 --> 01:09:10.079
Awful.

1154
01:09:10.140 --> 01:09:13.800
But there are I can see there are some absolute dubs in this season as well.

1155
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:18.239
Maybe Freiburger wasn't entirely flame.

1156
01:09:18.420 --> 01:09:22.619
But the worst thing, like, what were we watching the other day?

1157
01:09:22.739 --> 01:09:27.180
Like, what was the last Star Trek TOS one that we did?

1158
01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:30.840
Oh, no, no, it was me.

1159
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:32.699
I was watching...

1160
01:09:32.699 --> 01:09:34.560
Oh, you did it...

1161
01:09:34.619 --> 01:09:35.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1162
01:09:35.220 --> 01:09:49.800
As for the Enterprise episode and just having them all do the crap joke at the end of the episode and then having produced by Freddie Freiberger appear on the bottom of the screen was just so depressing.

1163
01:09:49.859 --> 01:09:52.920
It was so funny. every episode that season.

1164
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:56.460
And every episode coming up in your rubber podcast.

1165
01:09:56.520 --> 01:09:57.840
That's right.

1166
01:09:57.899 --> 01:10:01.260
That's right, every episode in Space 1999 series 3.

1167
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:21.899
I wonder if, I wonder how the production values stack up between TOS 3 and, well, I mean, uh, you know, clearly there's a massive budget cut in Space 1999 between series one and 2 because they can't erect those big, beautiful sets, which were half of the reason that I enjoyed watching it as a kid.

1168
01:10:22.020 --> 01:10:26.760
I didn't think, oh, I would get past the 1st episode and I was so impressed by the 1st episode.

1169
01:10:26.819 --> 01:10:28.739
I was the 2nd and I really enjoyed it.

1170
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:33.300
I only got about maybe 5 or 6 in, but less further than I thought I would.

1171
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:34.859
It's weird.

1172
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:38.100
Like, I like it, and it, that's the thing in, in series, one.

1173
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:42.899
It's like kind of weird and philosophical and strange and do you know what I mean?

1174
01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:44.819
It's not just an alien comes along.

1175
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:50.699
Whereas in series 2, It's often just, you know, like rubber monster. and Cheryl.

1176
01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:53.399
Yeah, yeah. turning into a gorilla.

1177
01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:55.319
A nylon gorilla.

1178
01:10:55.380 --> 01:10:57.479
Like, it's so bad.

1179
01:10:57.539 --> 01:11:00.239
Also, we have those.

1180
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:01.199
Barbara Bane.

1181
01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:03.119
Glorious.

1182
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:04.560
So great.

1183
01:11:04.619 --> 01:11:07.260
She taught Beverly everything she knows.

1184
01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:09.539
Oh, God, the similarities.

1185
01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:10.560
Oh, there, aren't they?