WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:39:59

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we're back in the final series of Enterprise, and we've already done the last 3 episodes of Enterprise, but after this episode, we will have done the last five.

3
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So this is a 2 parter, at the end of series 4, and it just comes before Demons and Terra Prime, and then these are the Voyages.

4
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It's called Inner Mirror Darkly, and Inner Mirror Darkly, part 2.

5
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We're going to watch both of them because that's the rule.

6
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Um, and it's a pretty amazing two-parter.

7
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I really enjoyed it.

8
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What did you think?

9
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Proof conclusive that Enterprise was finally getting his act together in its final season, just as the curtains going down.

10
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I would quite like to issue an apology to the creators of Enterprise, the actors taking part, and to you, because when you predictably chose Enterprise to put into the randomiser, I was there rolling my eyes going, oh, God, you know, it's going to be terrible.

11
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It's going to be awful.

12
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I had a lot of fun watching this episode.

13
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For once.

14
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I feel like all the rules are off.

15
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All the enterprise rules are off and no one has to make any boring speeches and Archer can be as much of a prick as he likes and, you know, everyone's working true of a normal episode.

16
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But with a good reason this time.

17
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Yeah, I mean, we're supposed to like him normally.

18
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And yeah, I've got to say, I think this might be my favourite of all the enterprises we've watched so far.

19
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And I think it might be my favourite Mirror Universe episode we've done an untitled Star Trek project so far as well.

20
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It might be as well.

21
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So, yeah, yeah.

22
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This is Enterprise basically saying, or Manikoto saying, let's just tick off every box we want to, because the rules are off.

23
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We can have the gall.

24
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We can have the folions, we can have original series sets, you know, all those things that he probably would have liked to have seen in Enterprise, since series one.

25
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And now we're doing it.

26
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And boy, shoving it all in this two-parter. a riot.

27
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Well, I mean, I've watched a fair amount of series 4, but not all of it, and I've enjoyed everything.

28
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I think it's really sort of well told, um, the episodes are fun and eventful, interesting things happen.

29
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I think, like I think this is pretty dumb, but I really, really enjoyed it.

30
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There are things about it that I I still have some reservations about it.

31
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But it's the sheer audacity of the fan wank that's on display that I just think is so amazingly great.

32
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And he's clearly gone, all right, the Tholian Webb and Mirror Mirror.

33
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I will have both of those, somehow he weaves them together.

34
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So he makes the Tholian web into a kind of sequel to Mirror, Mirror without anything really in the original episode, kind of suggesting that.

35
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And then he creates a sequel to those.

36
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And I think that's magnificent.

37
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And it just has the sort of usual thing.

38
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There's reversals and exciting things.

39
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And of course, something, I think, and we're going to talk to you about this during the course of the episode.

40
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Something that I think Deep Space 9 loses is the original Mirror Mirror idea, which is our crew, but they all have the knife one another to survive and and kind of progress up the hierarchy.

41
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And that's the shocking thing about Mirror, Mirror, is that it's the enterprise, but it's that.

42
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And so this really leans into the original conception of the mirror universe in mirror, mirror.

43
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I'm actually kind of pleased this is the only chance because I read on memory alpha.

44
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Had series 5 come along, they would definitely, because the reception to this was huge.

45
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There definitely would have been another Mirror Universe enterprise episode.

46
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And I always feel like it's like the law of diminishing returns a lot of the time.

47
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And like you said, with DS9, it started off as this amazing holding up the mirror to our regular characters and continuation of Mirror, Mirror.

48
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And by the end of this on, in series 7, you know, going to the mirror universe just meant that you were a cartoon villain and gay.

49
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And that was it.

50
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You're like, that was as lazy as it got by the end there.

51
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Whereas this is, is still sort of comic book fun, but it, I think it does have something to say in a few pertinent scenes, which I appreciated because, I mean, I would have gone along with this if it was just knives coming out and foley and webs popping up in space and things like this.

52
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But actually, to have the thread of Tapal realising how things are different in the other universe and inciting her own rebellion, that really boosted up that 2nd part and made me really pay attention.

53
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But just visually.

54
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This was an excitement to my eyeballs in a way that enterprise so rarely is.

55
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And I did send you a message during part one going, oh, God, I thought this was all TOS says, and I'm just stuck on these boring enterprise sets as usual.

56
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And then when that blew up, I literally jumped out the chair and went, yes.

57
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And twice is gone and we're on the Defiant for episode two.

58
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That's not DS9 is defiant by the way.

59
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Yeah, like, and the whole 2nd episode, visually, they brought in director of photography to do that one.

60
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And it just looks amazingly good, I thought.

61
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Yeah, I feel we're going to have so much fun watching this.

62
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And I would never, ever get to say that about enterprise ever again.

63
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So there's one other thing that I want to say, we did an episode a while ago of Discovery Series one called Vaulting Ambition.

64
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And we thought that was pretty boring.

65
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Yeah, that was like the 2nd last episode of their Mirror Universe Arc, which I think is generally good.

66
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To be fair, there are some good episodes.

67
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There's like 4 episodes, isn't there, in series one?

68
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A couple of them are pretty.

69
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We just chose the most boring one.

70
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We chose the worst one.

71
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I think it may be the worst episode of season one.

72
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The placeholder mirror episode, that one, isn't it?

73
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Because I think that's really great.

74
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But even in vaulting ambition, that episode, Giorgio is referred to by her full title, which is her most Imperial Majesty, Mother of the Fatherland, Overlord of Vulcan, Dominus of Kronos, Regina, Andor, Philippa Giorgio, Augustus Yaponius Centaurius.

75
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And Japonius is Japanese.

76
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She gets that title from her predecessor, Koshisata.

77
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And it's a deliberate reference to it.

78
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And she says, so the crew of discovery, know about the Defiant, going into the mirror universe, and they want to retrieve it in order to find out a way out of the mirror universe through interphase space.

79
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And so that's a reference to this episode.

80
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It's not really a reference to the Tholian web because it's this episode that establishes that the defiant ends up in the mirror universe, and she actually says, Giorgio says that she's read the files on the Defiant, and they're full of dangerous ideas like equality and freedom and cooperation.

81
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Yes.

82
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And she says, we won't let you infect us again, because the reason that there's no, there's no interaction with our regular crew.

83
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Like our crew don't find out about the mirror universe in this episode because they're not in.

84
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I want to talk about that in a second, but yeah.

85
00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:14.459
Yeah.

86
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But, but Giorgio knows about the Mirror Universe before the people on Enterprising Mirror, Mirror, find out about it, she knows about it because she's read the Defiance files.

87
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And she refers to how the defiant gets here through interphasic space, which resulted in a temporal anomaly, which sent the defiant back in time.

88
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And so there's a really, really detailed reference to this 2 parter in vaulting ambition.

89
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And so I don't think I realised that at the time because I hadn't seen this.

90
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And so it's absolutely Kurtzman doing what he does with Enterprise, which is, I think, taking an unloved and kind of unsuccessful series and giving it love and properly canonising it in a way that I think is really generous and wonderful.

91
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Yeah, I think it's awesome.

92
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It's so good, but it's still there and it's still Star Trek and we're still going to acknowledge it. basically what you say about it every time we watch one of these.

93
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That's right.

94
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What I think is wonderful about it is the Tholian web, mirror, mirror, vaulting ambition, all kind of centre around this 2 parter.

95
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And I think that's wonderful.

96
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I think that's really, really top quality fan wank of a kind that Manny Koto is, you know, fan wank guy, but, you know, he's excelled himself, I think, with this 2 parter.

97
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You're sorry to sound dangerously like one of those Star Trek fans that write spinoff books now, you know?

98
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loves all like your own personal folio and web of continuity threading through the series.

99
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I mean, you know me.

100
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I think that's wonderful and I think it is great that they are endorsing enterprise in a sort of backhand in kind of a way.

101
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But for me, less the continuity, more is this entertaining.

102
00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:08.519
Yes.

103
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This is really entertaining on its own.

104
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That would have been a flaw if it hadn't been entertaining on its own terms because it's fun.

105
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Well, I mean, there was a chance.

106
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This is still enterprise, you know.

107
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Yeah, very good chance.

108
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But because it's fun and because it relies on our memories of 2 good original series episodes, you know, like I just think it works really well.

109
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There's not many times when you and I could talk about an enterprise episode and a Kurzman era episode and say the enterprise episode is more entertaining.

110
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

111
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Yeah, I certainly think that, you know, this has nothing to say about the mirror universe and the only thing that's interesting is when Tapol reads the defiance files in part 2 and it inspires a rebellion.

112
00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:59.279
Um, you know, series one of discovery uses the mirror, a universe as a kind of...

113
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MAGA, parallel universe version of the uh, Trump Federation.

114
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Yeah.

115
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

116
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And so it's commenting on contemporary politics in a way that this doesn't do.

117
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And it has some great images.

118
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And even vaulting ambition ends with, you know, Gabriel Lorca stomping that guy in the head and killing him.

119
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Like it's pretty amazing.

120
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But yeah, this is just so far.

121
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Do you know what the inspiration was to do a Mirror Universe episode was originally?

122
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No.

123
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It was because they wanted to bring William Shatner into Enterprise.

124
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I'm sorry, we're like, oh, how could we possibly do this?

125
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Oh, let's do a mirror universe episode and we'll somehow, you know, all rules are off and he can be in this.

126
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That all fell through, but they still wanted to do it, right?

127
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And then Manikoto says...

128
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Let's not do the usual mirror universe thing then of having our characters going into the mirror universe episode and judging everything that's going on because then we can avoid and how does he say it?

129
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What was great about our approach where people aren't crossing over to the universe is, we can avoid any of those moralising speeches where Archer or somebody waves their finger and leches these bad people about, well, you really ought to try this other way.

130
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And instead, instead, you just hang out with these dreadful people doing awful things.

131
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And Kel Suprees, that's a lot more fun to watch than our usual boar against prize characters.

132
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I mean, um, Hoshi Sato in this 2 parter.

133
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If she was like this all the time, I'd be all over that character.

134
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And they do it, they do prove in Kursman Trek, you'd think it would be an impossibility for a mirror universe character, like how they're characterised to work in the prime universe.

135
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They made it work.

136
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Yeah, twice.

137
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They've Gabriel Walker and then they have Philippa Jordan.

138
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There's absolutely a possibility that, you know, our regular enterprise characters, maybe not, you know, trying to kiss and knife each other and poison each other all the time and things like that.

139
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I don't know, just have getting their fucking hair down and having some farm, you know?

140
00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:14.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

141
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Oh, it's so great.

142
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Yeah.

143
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Well, like, in a way, they do get to have our prime universe judging the mirror universe because of the defiant files and the files about the federation that Tapole reads.

144
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But otherwise, her reading or fall is far less damning.

145
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Yes, exactly.

146
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You know.

147
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But can you imagine?

148
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Scott Back, you're like, oh, you're terrible.

149
00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:51.059
Although we do have Scott Bacular in a dual role in this in some very odd sequences where suddenly our universe archer is there, like a forced ghost from Star Wars, saying to Mirror Universe, Archer, you know, there's a better way than this.

150
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We still have a bit of that in here.

151
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I think that's different though.

152
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And when we get there, I'll talk about what I think's happening.

153
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I just figured it was his conscience tickling a little, you know?

154
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Not quite.

155
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I don't think that's quite But I guess the whole idea too is to just let the actors let their head down and have fun and that's the other thing that gets to happen here.

156
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.279
Well, what I will say is this.

157
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Yeah, usually I'll lead this till the end, but let's do it at the start at this time.

158
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The reception of this episode.

159
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And bear in mind, the reception of Enterprise generally was everyone wanted to pour it down the plug-hole, you know, and put it, put it in a, been on fire.

160
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One of the most popular instalments they ever did.

161
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The New York Daily Time says the best hours of Enterprise yet.

162
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At a Star Trek convention for the 50th, it was chosen as part of the 10 best Star Trek episodes of all time, this two-parter.

163
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Newsweek says it was the best episode of Enterprise there ever was.

164
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City Fantastique, said it was number 4 of the top 10 television episodes of 2005.

165
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Wired named this two-part instalment as one of the 12 all-time best Star Trek episodes of all time.

166
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Star Trek 101.

167
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This is episode as one of the 10 essential episodes from Enterprise.

168
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So all of the critics at the time, we're watching this and probably going, geez, Louis, we could have had this all along.

169
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This is amazing. you know, her original series episode.

170
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Branham Braga was highly impressed by the episode's teaser sequence stating when I saw this two-parter, it was like, hmm, this should be a whole season, and I'll be behind that totally.

171
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Interesting.

172
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Scott Bacula described the two-parter as a favourite episode of his.

173
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Now, interestingly, John Billingsley and Conor Trinier were not fans of this 2 parter at all.

174
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Billings that he called the episodes banal, and Trinier described them as pandering.

175
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Yes, that's what we want.

176
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Pandaras, you know. that's so far.

177
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But we'll save the last word before we go into Linda Park. how she said to herself, finally being given something fun to do.

178
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She says, I think it's well known that these are my favourite episodes of all time.

179
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Brilliant.

180
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So I think the consensus is this is great.

181
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Billingsley likes being a bit controversial.

182
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Trinier, maybe it's because he didn't have such a big role and he usually gets a bigger role in enterprise.

183
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Well, I think it's because he didn't get to be quite as pretty as he normally is, is probably the thing.

184
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You didn't really get to fuck no one either.

185
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Bacular was having all the fun there, wasn't he?

186
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, for worlds.

187
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Well, what do you think?

188
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I think we go in Let's do it.

189
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Let's do it.

190
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:40.980
All right.

191
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I will count us in.

192
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

193
00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:54.840
You know what's sad, Nathan. is we won't get to sing the song.

194
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I know, I know.

195
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:57.899
We'll talk about that.

196
00:16:57.960 --> 00:16:59.039
Oh my god.

197
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:00.659
This opening is so brilliant.

198
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.179
So what do you think they're doing?

199
00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:09.299
Like, I think, like, like, what is this bit four?

200
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.180
And the one thing that I try...

201
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.160
Yes, I like that idea.

202
00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:19.920
I don't think it can really be that, but yes, it's like this is where it diverged.

203
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:26.099
And so the mirror universe becomes just a sort of quantum parallel universe where things went another way.

204
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:29.700
So is this the actual footage from 1st contact?

205
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.299
Some of it, and it's the same actor, I think, isn't it?

206
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.859
Attention to detail is great because I couldn't really see where they had entered 2 movies.

207
00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:40.140
Yeah, like wild show. where they had.

208
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:41.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

209
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:43.920
That shot there is from 1st contact, I think.

210
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:45.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

211
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:47.759
And so you've got Cromwell back.

212
00:17:47.819 --> 00:17:50.700
You know, who doesn't seem to be credited?

213
00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:54.960
No, this is from 1st contact because you only see the gun and not his face.

214
00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:58.259
So I think they just edited it really, really well.

215
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.339
It's a shame.

216
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.519
But come on, if you're going to start this, we're going to, what a fun way of doing it.

217
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:06.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah. one of the most celebrating scenes in Star Trek.

218
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.160
And then doing the music...

219
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:09.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

220
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:16.319
Yeah, so either it's just subverting it, but I do love the idea that this is where the universe is diverge.

221
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:20.819
They even do the comedy bit where he's trying to do the voice.

222
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.559
But it's much more ominous.

223
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:23.339
Yeah.

224
00:18:23.339 --> 00:18:24.539
And now come, yeah.

225
00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:25.799
Yeah, so you look, our comes to go.

226
00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:26.940
You don't see his face.

227
00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:28.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

228
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:32.160
This is very political right now.

229
00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.880
Look, I'm all writing, running in, to say, look, get whatever you can grab.

230
00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:51.059
So, and so what we get here, because, you know, Star Trek Enterprise, the opening titles tell the story of the various white men that are responsible for promonialism and then the federation.

231
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:53.220
This is great.

232
00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:55.619
Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

233
00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:57.359
Like, there's a nine.

234
00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:59.640
Biplane, a German biplane.

235
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.640
And... the evil symbol of the, what they're called?

236
00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:05.940
the Terran the Terran Empire.

237
00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:10.140
Look, explosions, atom bombs going off.

238
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.079
This is much more exciting than enterprise normally is.

239
00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:16.019
It's much cheaper than it is.

240
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:16.920
Who cares about that?

241
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:17.400
fair enough.

242
00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:18.420
It's only for 2 episodes.

243
00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:23.279
Excuse me, I think the general consensus is people prefer this theme tune.

244
00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:26.400
Oh, yeah, they're crazy.

245
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:28.680
And that is so shit.

246
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.940
CGI man on the moon.

247
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.160
That is so bad.

248
00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:36.480
See, I thought it was going to end here with Enterprise bombing the planet and then it goes into more.

249
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.460
And the cause comes in.

250
00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:40.500
There's the scenes from the building.

251
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:43.259
That's dragon's teeth. final episode from the next episode.

252
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:45.119
That's from Dragon's teeth in Voyager.

253
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.119
Oh, yeah, that's I can voyage shots.

254
00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:55.259
I think the last bit there with all the ships coming in, that's from Sirius 3 of Enterprise during the Zindi Arc, you know, one of their space powers.

255
00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:57.240
No, but come on.

256
00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:06.960
As 2 ways to start this, one the 1st contact and then changing the title sequence, you're straight away on a footing of like, this is going to be great.

257
00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:08.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

258
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:10.019
It is pretty good. isn't it?

259
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.299
And I love how the enterprise looks.

260
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:13.920
Okay, so we get a tellrite.

261
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:15.299
Oh, you're right.

262
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:16.319
I do look terrible.

263
00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:16.920
Don't they?

264
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah. never work.

265
00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:22.559
I think that Janken Polk is the only one that doesn't look utterly terrible.

266
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:33.599
So this is Malcolm Reed inventing the pain booths and the pain booths are the big thing, aren't they?

267
00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:36.539
They're kind of the most signature thing in mirror, mirror.

268
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.039
So they're from Mirror, Mirror.

269
00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:40.380
That absolutely says the mirror universe.

270
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:47.579
So there's probably tons of this, you know, in this that we didn't. where they're sort of saying our stuff for mirror, mirror.

271
00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:49.619
That one is quite obvious.

272
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:50.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

273
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:51.900
It is great.

274
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.740
You get lots of scenes of Conor Trinier later on, arriving about in agony.

275
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:56.940
It's quite fun to watch.

276
00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:02.880
But, you know, you have, like, it's Reed invented it, which I think is pretty great.

277
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.759
He doesn't quite know why he's torturing him.

278
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:09.539
He's so horrible, he goes, I suspect he was late for his shift or something.

279
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:19.500
Apparently, Mike Sussman, the writer of this, thought he was only writing a single episode and they were like, no, this is so great.

280
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:21.480
We're gonna have to make it a 2 barter.

281
00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:23.579
And he was a bit overwhelmed.

282
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:28.440
Apparently he had to have like the whole Christmas break away and he wrote it sort of over a couple of weeks.

283
00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:30.299
He did a great job though, I think.

284
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:31.500
It is really good.

285
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:33.299
And having Forrest as well.

286
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:46.140
So we have Forest and then, you know, like in the next episode we have Soval, uh, and we have uh, an admiral who only gets mentioned by name and is never seen, except in the very universe.

287
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.079
All far less tedious than they normally are as well.

288
00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:52.259
I thought, you know, whilst they're trying to incite rebellions and things.

289
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:58.920
Well, I think James L. Conway directs this episode and he hasn't been around for some time.

290
00:21:58.980 --> 00:22:05.039
I think he did the very 1st Enterprise episode and then didn't direct Star Trek until this point after that.

291
00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:11.160
And they pulled him in because they knew this was going to be quite effects heavy and quite a big deal.

292
00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:17.759
He directed like some of the DS9 big hitters like Way, the Warrior, and Shattered Mirror, and things like that.

293
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:21.119
So he's quite a big deal getting him back.

294
00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:26.160
And I do think you can feel a lift in the production with this and with the 2nd part.

295
00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:27.240
Yeah.

296
00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:30.359
So he's Hashi, who just looks beautiful.

297
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.220
Like, she's sort of drunk.

298
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:33.059
Sexy in this.

299
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

300
00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:36.960
She'd be great.

301
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:39.119
Not to put too far apart a minute.

302
00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:40.619
She'll fuck anyone to get to power.

303
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.660
She's all like that.

304
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.460
All forests right now as it works.

305
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:49.079
Shortly, she'll be all over Archer, and then by the end of it, she's grabbing Mayweather.

306
00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:50.279
She's snogging in.

307
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:53.519
Yeah, well, that's finally the one that she thinks is hot.

308
00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:54.240
Do you know what I mean?

309
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.099
Well, no, she's wrong by then.

310
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.000
She's right.

311
00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:57.960
Well, she's right.

312
00:22:58.019 --> 00:22:59.220
But she's won by then.

313
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.480
She's going to be emperor so she can just pick someone pretty rather than someone powerful.

314
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:06.119
What's lovely about her story?

315
00:23:06.180 --> 00:23:14.279
is unlike Norm Werns Prize, which signposts everything in every scene all the time and there are very few surprises.

316
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:16.259
Her thread throughout this.

317
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.539
It's quite delicately done.

318
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:20.279
So at the end, when she takes power.

319
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.519
The 1st time I watched it, I didn't see it coming.

320
00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:24.779
No.

321
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:31.559
Do you know, one thing that I like is that little bit of dialogue too, where she talks about going back to Brazil to resume her teaching?

322
00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:43.140
You know, like, like, as if she had a normal life, there's something like there's something normal in the in the mirror universe, because this is the earliest that we've seen of the mirror universe, isn't it?

323
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.339
Yes, I don't know.

324
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.099
I mean, if the moon landing was the Terran Empire.

325
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:52.380
Is that what we're supposed to see, the stupid CG moon landing at the end of the thing?

326
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.240
Yeah, anyway, doesn't matter.

327
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:57.119
That was the only part of the title circus where I burst out laughing.

328
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.619
So bad, isn't it?

329
00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:02.279
They just can't do people.

330
00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:06.480
They have a good stab at the corn in this, but just put a person on there.

331
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:07.319
You know what I mean?

332
00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.599
Just build a crappy moon set.

333
00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:10.680
Yeah, yeah.

334
00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:12.359
Oh, here he is.

335
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:13.740
Captain Archer himself.

336
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:15.000
Oh, no, he's not a caption, is he?

337
00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:15.900
He's a commander?

338
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:17.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

339
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.680
But, I mean, the great thing about it is that he's just a massive fucking loser.

340
00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:24.720
Oh, I mean, he usually is as well, remember?

341
00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:25.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

342
00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:28.259
But he's like, he's an angry loser.

343
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:38.819
And then in episode two, he discovers that there is a much better archer who is famous and beloved and you know, is going to be remembered forever.

344
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:40.619
So pissed about that.

345
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.960
He wants all of those files destroyed, doesn't he?

346
00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:45.839
I don't want any record, but there's a better V out there.

347
00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.539
Oh, I love Mayweather with his earring.

348
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:49.740
Doesn't he look hot?

349
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.099
Yeah, although the wig is not doing in many favours.

350
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.640
Now this, I think this is awful, right?

351
00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:58.079
Can I ask you about this?

352
00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:00.359
Because I kind of think she looks quite sexy.

353
00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:04.079
Say it with very uniform middle cutaway.

354
00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:05.099
Yeah.

355
00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:18.660
So, so we do see, do we see Ahura in Mirror, Mirror, and she has a sexy version of the, um, Star Trek, you know, of the, of the Starfleet thing, but yes.

356
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:27.059
But it's camp and sexy, whereas this is just the, you know, the boring fucking overalls, but we'll just cut the middle out of them.

357
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:31.619
Like it's not camp and it's like designed by a straight guy.

358
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:43.019
Oh, this fucking, um, so Billingsley is playing evil flocks and we keep seeing flocks just chopping up animals every time you go back to him.

359
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:45.059
He has an animal in my show.

360
00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:51.599
And they actually, they go to the legs of all the guts and all of that, you know, someone's made that prop.

361
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:57.960
You got to remember, these are the same prop people that put that fake dog in liquid in a night in Sick Bay, you know?

362
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:03.480
I will say one thing about these uniforms, yeah, is they're not designed to appeal to you and me.

363
00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:07.079
And I would imagine if a man is watching this.

364
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:10.859
I imagine if they would enjoy this a lot.

365
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.200
Yeah, but I think it's a bit gross.

366
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.019
Yes, but then straight men are.

367
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:24.900
No, like it should have been camp and fun and revealing, like absolutely do the revealing outfit.

368
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:37.740
Certainly what Hoshi is wearing in that 1st thing, like, like there's something sexist and demeany about the plot about how she has to fuck her way up to power, but we'll go for it because that's kind of the, you know, the genre or whatever.

369
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:47.220
I mean, you know when, you know, when men, you know, sort of, I've seen, you know, gay men proudly wearing tops where it just sort of comes up to just below their chest, you know.

370
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:47.880
Sure.

371
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:49.440
And I think that's really sexy.

372
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.460
I think it looks lovely.

373
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:57.299
No, but I just think the actual outfit itself is just the overalls with the middle cut out of it.

374
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.799
It's so low effort.

375
00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:02.220
Like it's so much in the mind of a straight man, though.

376
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.220
And, you know, you can sort of spangly shit on it and stuff.

377
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:06.240
Like, make it fun.

378
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.099
Like, you want to make it. make it gay.

379
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:09.000
You want to make it cow?

380
00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:09.900
I want to make it.

381
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.819
Yeah, but it's not funny, is it?

382
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:12.660
It's a universe.

383
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.099
It's supposed to be sexy.

384
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:20.160
No, the origin of the mirror universe, I think, is a genre busting thing.

385
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:37.200
Like, I think it is what if Star Trek, instead of being lots of people in uniforms and being terribly Siri and stuff, was lurid, terribly serious and stuff, was lurid, ridiculous space opera, where everyone was wearing, you know, like giant boots and...

386
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:39.180
That's why I wish Star Trek was all the time.

387
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

388
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:41.160
Yeah, that's right.

389
00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:43.019
And that's what they do in Mirror, Mirror.

390
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:44.759
Like there's something very camp about it.

391
00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:46.680
That is not can.

392
00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:51.779
They do take the baton in DS9 as well because, you know, everybody is hamming it up.

393
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:57.900
Paul Garak, with his lines like, post you, you know, everyone's very camp.

394
00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:01.740
Look at what Philippa wears in the mirror universe as emperor.

395
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:03.059
Ridiculous, isn't it?

396
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:04.440
That's fabulous.

397
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:07.079
Enormous gold lame gown.

398
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:08.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

399
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.079
You know, it needs to be more fun and that is not fun, I think.

400
00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:20.460
But the thing that we have identified in this show before is they are aiming for that heterosexual audience.

401
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:22.619
And I think this is part of that as well.

402
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.440
It's the same designers that are saying, yeah, great.

403
00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:28.319
Let's have them in their underwear doing that decontamination gel.

404
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:29.279
Yeah, yeah.

405
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:30.539
I kind of get it.

406
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:31.740
I don't really like it.

407
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:33.480
I don't like how exploitive it is.

408
00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:37.680
But I think for people that aren't you and me. would be very appealing.

409
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.500
Yeah, yeah, I don't care about them, though.

410
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.859
Like it needs to be camp.

411
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:47.039
Anyone straight listening to this, all right?

412
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:48.539
You're not welcome here.

413
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:50.279
No, that's not true.

414
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:52.079
We love you all.

415
00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:53.759
Just a bit less.

416
00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:55.559
Oh, sorry, don't move.

417
00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:58.619
What's going on now?

418
00:28:59.339 --> 00:29:01.380
Yeah, so...

419
00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:03.480
Oh, look, look at the guns on the wall.

420
00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:05.400
Yeah, yeah, he's got guns in the background.

421
00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:09.660
No, later on, he's or was it, is that how this scene opened?

422
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:10.019
It is.

423
00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:11.519
Oh, no, it's closing.

424
00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:13.559
There you go. holding the gun now, alert.

425
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:14.279
He's putting it on.

426
00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:19.619
That's the gun that Cromwell used to shoot that Zefron Cochran used to shoot the Vulcan.

427
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.160
When Picard had a stab at doing. alternative universe.

428
00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:24.839
They were like, right, you want guns on the wall?

429
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:31.440
No, we're going to display the heads of the people that are being killed in the mirror universe.

430
00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:34.319
Oh, it's so great. love that episode.

431
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:37.619
No, that's an alternative 24th century.

432
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:43.799
Can you believe this as an actual quote on memory alpha where they went, well, we don't usually give Mayweather too much to do.

433
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:48.539
So we'll write him up in this episode and make him Scott Bakula's bodyguard.

434
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:51.480
I'm like, so you know you're not getting...

435
00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:54.059
You know you're just neglecting this attractive man.

436
00:29:55.259 --> 00:29:57.240
What about both?

437
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:02.759
Think how many episodes we've done where she has literally had a line or a reaction shot or something.

438
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:09.119
Remember, these are the voyages where they had one scene with the riker on the holodeck and that was it.

439
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:11.940
And look, I'm the universe.

440
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:13.319
Porthos is a pit bull.

441
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:18.240
I also prefer this stalk, you know.

442
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.640
Imagine that pit bull suspended in liquid in fluxes.

443
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:24.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

444
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:26.220
You wouldn't tolerate it terrible.

445
00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:29.339
No, I'm not sort of listening.

446
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:30.420
I've got the subtitles on.

447
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.720
All I'm seeing is what's the actress's name who plays Sato?

448
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:36.480
Linda Parks, her body language.

449
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:40.200
Everything, her body language is sexualised.

450
00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:45.119
So when she walks towards him like that, she literally looks like she's about to bang bang him.

451
00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:50.759
Yeah, yeah, but she doesn't seem kind of downtrodden.

452
00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:51.480
Do you know what I mean?

453
00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:52.799
Like, I don't know.

454
00:30:52.859 --> 00:31:03.180
I think that when the Mirror Universe comes back, they drop the women fucking their way to the top idea and I think they're right to do that.

455
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:12.299
And I think it's probably in 2005, it's probably they should not really be doing it, to be honest, I think it's bad.

456
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:19.200
I mean, the intendant was highly sexualised, but she's already out the top when we 1st meet. right.

457
00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:20.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

458
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.799
We don't need to find out how she got there.

459
00:31:22.859 --> 00:31:24.000
No.

460
00:31:24.059 --> 00:31:26.099
And she's just fucking away to the top.

461
00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:28.259
And to Paul accuses her of that, remember?

462
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.059
Like, tells her off.

463
00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:34.740
I think Linda Park has a wonderful stab, but I think this character in this.

464
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:39.299
I think that's, um, uh, oh, God, what's her name, cousin?

465
00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:40.259
Cousin Michelle.

466
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:40.980
Michelle Yeoh.

467
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:41.759
I can remember her name.

468
00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:50.700
She is outstanding as Giorgio. but nobody will ever quite top than our visitor as the attendant intendant.

469
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:53.099
She is so outrageously over the top.

470
00:31:53.160 --> 00:32:05.579
Yeah, so I think I said to you on the chat that I think it lets offend everyone, that putting a bisexual woman on TV is the easiest sort of queer representation that you can do, which is why Deep Space 9 does it.

471
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:09.059
It's the only queer rep that the show does in the 90s at all.

472
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:13.019
And, you know, they don't make any of the men say in the merry universe.

473
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:15.599
O'Brien and Bashir in series 7.

474
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:17.880
Like where they're almost saying it, but no.

475
00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:19.799
But yes, I know what you're saying.

476
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:22.680
Yeah, it's a bromance and that's very sweet.

477
00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:36.480
But, you know, like, sexualising Kira, and, you know, just making a beautiful woman bisexual and stuff and just sort of gesturing at it a little bit, like having 2 women kiss on tally, isn't that confronting, I think.

478
00:32:36.539 --> 00:32:40.680
I think they do a reasonable snipe with Darks in DS 9.

479
00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:42.839
They have clearly attracted to women.

480
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:47.819
Well, in one episode in between, but Vanessa Williams, I'll keep mentioning it. that pottery scene.

481
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:53.160
She's having a wonderful time with her arms around Vanessa Williams.

482
00:32:53.220 --> 00:33:02.759
That's awesome But I do think it is our problem. that the only truly acceptable way in this iteration of Star Trek.

483
00:33:02.819 --> 00:33:08.160
You know, Burman era is really going to an alternative universe where being gay is okay.

484
00:33:08.220 --> 00:33:09.599
Well, yeah.

485
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.700
Well, it's a lazy shorthand, isn't it?

486
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:13.740
It a lazy shorthand for this is how people are different.

487
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:15.000
Yeah.

488
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:17.940
Yeah, but also because it's camp.

489
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:18.720
Do you know what I mean?

490
00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:19.500
That's fun.

491
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:33.059
And the big thing that Deep Space 9 does, with the mirror universe, it doesn't really use it to comment on politics, it doesn't really do it much beyond the 1st one or 2 to kind of refer to Star Trek.

492
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:38.279
Because, you know, Deep Say sign does care about the original series and does reference it, doesn't it?

493
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:40.079
in a way that, yeah.

494
00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:50.759
It's saying that if they had wanted to have, you know, like Tripp and Mayweather asset in this episode, I would not have objected at all.

495
00:33:50.819 --> 00:33:52.740
But they would never have done it.

496
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:56.940
No, I know it's a shame. another dead animal. you know, he's carving up another animal.

497
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:01.259
But that is strange because they don't do it at all in this two-parture, do they?

498
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:02.039
They don't do that.

499
00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:04.319
The bisexual thing.

500
00:34:04.380 --> 00:34:05.880
No, no.

501
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:10.500
Which is odd because, you know, when we go across to Kurtzman. they are doing it.

502
00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:12.179
Giorgio's quite happy too.

503
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

504
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.760
Whatever comes her way, you know, she'll have fun with it somehow.

505
00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:19.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

506
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:26.280
I think that's in the season finale where she has, she gets to, um, Orion lap dancers or whatever.

507
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:26.760
All right.

508
00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:29.099
So here we have Vitholian.

509
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:38.159
And and as research, to prepare for this just before we record, Nathan refuse to tell me anything about his research.

510
00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:40.139
Just so it could tell me that exciting.

511
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:42.239
But I did watch Thetholian Web.

512
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:46.980
Oh, did they look like that sort of weird crystal people?

513
00:34:47.039 --> 00:35:07.860
So all you get to see is kind of from the nose up, it's very static, and there is a kind of like flames background thing, but it's very kind of, there's a lot of effects over it, and it talks because they've got a universal translator, I guess, at this point.

514
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:09.480
So it's got a name and it talks.

515
00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:14.039
Um, and, but you only see sort of the top of its head.

516
00:35:14.099 --> 00:35:14.940
It doesn't move.

517
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:21.840
It's sort of spooky looking, but it had been decided, I think, that that was heat.

518
00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:33.960
And so sort of in, so, you know, sort of extra canonically the idea is that they lived in very hot temperatures and here they live, you know, 200 degrees hotter than us or something like that.

519
00:35:35.099 --> 00:35:38.699
What I love about that, because I don't think that's great, CGI.

520
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:40.380
I think that does look pretty terrible.

521
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:42.840
But it is weird and different.

522
00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:43.800
And I like that.

523
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:45.000
You know?

524
00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:50.460
Yeah, it's not just someone slavered in latex. you know, with an extra nostril or something.

525
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:51.420
It does look different.

526
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:53.940
And the Tholians did look different.

527
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:54.840
Do you know what I mean?

528
00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:56.340
And they did look spooky.

529
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:02.579
And I think that this is a pretty good thing bringing them back and getting them to look weird getting them to like a video effect.

530
00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:03.539
Yeah, Nathan.

531
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.559
I think the eyes are quite cool.

532
00:36:04.619 --> 00:36:06.239
The eyes are original.

533
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:13.199
The sort of thing that you'd see in the 1st series of Next Generation, you know, before they learned to be embarrassed by that sort of thing.

534
00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:14.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

535
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:16.079
Yeah, I think it's pretty good.

536
00:36:16.139 --> 00:36:22.139
And, um, Fox is there, ready to tear it apart. as soon as you can.

537
00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:36.539
It's so interesting, you know, it's so interesting that Andrew Robinson and John Billingsley, who are 2 of their strongest actors, respectively, of their 2 shows, both hated doing the Mirror Universe episodes.

538
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:37.199
Oh, did they?

539
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:42.000
Yeah, but it might be just because those are doing the actors that get good work in the prime universe, you know?

540
00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:43.860
They get some decent material normally.

541
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:48.239
So, because Billingsley is not being fun.

542
00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:52.559
Like, that's the thing that you don't get, like, I think...

543
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:58.920
He's interesting in the 2nd episode when she's trying to show him how things could be and then when he makes his choices.

544
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:05.519
But is it because he's trying to play, you know, like he's the fun character on Enterprise normally.

545
00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:12.960
And so even though he could be camping it up, he just decides to know I'm kind of Dr. Mangela and I'm not going to be any fun at all.

546
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:16.980
I do still think the carving up animals thing is pretty funny though.

547
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:26.579
I like watching him, you know, scrabbling about with Conor Trinier and the engineering section in episode 2 when he's trying to, you know, sabotage the ship.

548
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:29.579
I think it's really fun But yeah, maybe you're right.

549
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.340
And also, you know, Garak's really fun normally.

550
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:43.440
And in the mirror universe episodes, he's very one note, you know, he's just a boy that goes around screaming at people and desperate to have sex with the intendant and it's not going to happen.

551
00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:45.840
And that's just not very fun to play.

552
00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:47.039
Ooh, now look at this.

553
00:37:47.099 --> 00:37:53.579
I love this because in our universe, obviously, Tripping, I've had a relationship.

554
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:54.659
Yeah, and they're very close.

555
00:37:54.780 --> 00:38:03.179
They managed to make that with their body language and how they play that scene really uncomfortable in a way that normally we watch them together and it's perfectly fine.

556
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:05.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

557
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.059
Okay, so this is the thing.

558
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.139
So there's an explosion.

559
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:12.960
So, what, they're trying to attach the cloak.

560
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.380
They're trying to attach a cloaking device.

561
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:29.639
It was Conor Trenier that came up with the explanation as to why his face is all scarred like that, with the radiation exposure, because it's the same radiation that scars Captain Pike in the original series.

562
00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:34.739
Yes, I thought it was probably a reference to Captain Pike just from the look of the scarring.

563
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:55.739
Uh, but he also says that there's radiation here and I guess because it's the Terran Empire and they don't give a shit about kind of occupational health and safety that it's not properly shielded and he says something like, you know, like every uh, so often, you know, like every decade you work on these things, you lose a year of your life or something like that.

564
00:38:56.039 --> 00:39:02.219
It's very sad. that pretty man and some mount is going to become scarred like that, isn't it?

565
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:04.380
And it turns out okay in the end.

566
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:05.579
I hope so.

567
00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:07.019
Yeah, yeah.

568
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:08.579
No, I mean, it does.

569
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:09.239
We've seen it.

570
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:12.599
Usually I find this admiral character so dull.

571
00:39:12.659 --> 00:39:14.519
It's great, yeah, yeah.

572
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:18.960
Well, doesn't he get killed next episode or, you know, the episode after this?

573
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.320
He gets killed in the attack on the Vulcan embassy or something?

574
00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:24.239
They knew they were going.

575
00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:25.500
That was in Keshara.

576
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:26.219
It was earlier.

577
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:27.420
Wasn't it?

578
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:29.340
Oh, so they brought him back.

579
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:30.719
Is he dead at this point?

580
00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:31.920
Yeah I think he is.

581
00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:32.699
Yeah, you're right.

582
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:35.460
It's the bombing of the Vulcan embassy, isn't it?

583
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:36.119
Yeah.

584
00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:37.800
So he's dead.

585
00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:39.420
And because that's the other reason.

586
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:54.960
In Discovery, at the end of series one, because Discovery encounters the Mirror Universe about 10 years before, the Enterprise doesn't, because no one's heard of it in Mirror, Mirror, they're sworn to secrecy, they're not allowed to say anything about it.

587
00:39:55.019 --> 00:40:06.719
It's classified because dead people from our world are still alive, like Philippa, are still alive in the mirror universe and we're at war with the Klingons, right?

588
00:40:06.780 --> 00:40:16.260
DS9 tried to do that and they chose the dullest character of all-time barrile to bring back... my god.

589
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:19.019
We're in the universe where Barile's still alive.

590
00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:30.179
But that is the all-time clangour of the alternative universe episodes because they bring 2 alternative universe characters into our universe.

591
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:31.860
We don't want to hang out in our universe.

592
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:33.239
That's where we normally are, you know?

593
00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:34.440
Yeah, yeah.

594
00:40:34.619 --> 00:40:36.059
Oh, look, the knives are out.

595
00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:39.900
He's going to murder Admiral Forrest or does that?

596
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:40.380
Do you know what?

597
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:51.960
This was the point where I remember messaging you and I was like, okay, this is fun and they're all having fun playing evil versions of their characters, but we are still stuck on the same dull sets that we're normally on.

598
00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:55.079
And I remember the sort of TOS stance.

599
00:40:55.139 --> 00:40:57.659
I'm thinking, well, where's did I did I imagine all of that?

600
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:03.599
And then when the Defiant shows up in that asteroid film or whatever it is, I was like, yes, here we go.

601
00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:05.820
It's so great, isn't it?

602
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:15.780
Because obviously the set's on the defiant because we are on the defiant in the Tholian web at the very beginning before it vanishes into interphasic space.

603
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.300
Is that what it's called, Nathan?

604
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:19.320
into phasic space.

605
00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:22.679
Yes, they say it quite a lot in Matholic.

606
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:24.059
They do.

607
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:26.639
We've just thought, oh, this amazing new space.

608
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:27.179
Yes, yeah.

609
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:28.739
Into phasic.

610
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:32.940
And it's a money saving thing, isn't it?

611
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:36.059
Because we get to use the enterprise sets for the defiant.

612
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.760
But here they have to build and they build more.

613
00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:42.059
Oh, look at...

614
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:48.480
I'm not sure what it says about me. but watching Malcolm Reed torture trip like this and he's all sort of sweaty in the tube.

615
00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:51.300
Yeah, he's going to disagree on television.

616
00:41:51.420 --> 00:41:53.039
Well, he's a bit hideous though.

617
00:41:53.099 --> 00:41:54.360
It is a bit unfortunate.

618
00:41:54.420 --> 00:41:55.679
He is unfortunate looking.

619
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:01.019
Yeah, they build more of the enterprise, don't they, than they ever have.

620
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:10.920
Like they obviously had built the original enterprise set for relics in series 6 of Star Trek, the next generation.

621
00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:15.119
Corridor and the Bridge and that for trials and tribulations. for trials and tribulations.

622
00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:17.760
But you build everything way more.

623
00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:18.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

624
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:30.900
And apparently, because, I mean, I couldn't read it all, but the laborious detail that they go into on memory alpha, talking to the designers about every single detail that they wanted to get, like, this was a passion project.

625
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:32.099
Yeah.

626
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:33.659
But do you know what I mean?

627
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:38.760
Even additional fan wank beyond what we really mentioned before we started watching.

628
00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:41.340
It's such fan service.

629
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:46.800
You know what really shocks me right about Sato and Archer sort of in bed like this, yeah?

630
00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:49.920
And it's even more apparent in episode 2 when they have it off.

631
00:42:49.980 --> 00:42:55.079
Is they're really sweaty and messed up in a way that Star Trek never is.

632
00:42:55.139 --> 00:43:01.619
People make love in Star Trek and their hair is perfect and they have not one drop of sweat has broken from their brow.

633
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:06.179
This actually feels like that, you know, having a bit of rough and tumble.

634
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:07.139
Yeah.

635
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:10.320
Archer's hair is really bad, isn't it?

636
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.539
It's so bad.

637
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.659
It's all feathered because it's so short, you know?

638
00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:22.019
It's like how mine looks, but it's too short because it, yeah, it's, there's too much volume to it.

639
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:22.800
I can't explain it.

640
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:30.239
But he also looks kind of old and a bit pathetic, and he, like, you know, he's doing that.

641
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:31.559
Dying, haven't they?

642
00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:34.139
Like a slightly darker hue to his hair as well.

643
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:35.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

644
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.340
You know what it reminds me of?

645
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:45.360
It reminds me of a previously successful boy band member coming back together with the boy band and trying to recapture his youth.

646
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:47.699
It's that sort of look.

647
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:49.500
Yeah.

648
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:54.960
Yeah, I mean, it's actually kind of a relief to see, oh, massive midrift shop on.

649
00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:57.420
Well, she's got a Pierce Navel.

650
00:43:57.480 --> 00:43:58.500
It pierced.

651
00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:01.619
Blow those bastards.

652
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:04.440
When you hear her being interviewed.

653
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:09.719
She's so shy Given, given some of the performances she gives.

654
00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:09.960
Yeah.

655
00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:11.039
Oh, here we go.

656
00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:11.760
Action at last.

657
00:44:11.820 --> 00:44:13.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

658
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:14.519
Yeah.

659
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.760
This is what you want from every Mirror Universe episode.

660
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:19.139
Exactly.

661
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.019
They're supposed to be stabbing one another, for God's sake.

662
00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:25.440
Archer looks like he's just gone down the high street and bought that t-shirt.

663
00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:25.920
Do you see him?

664
00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:26.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

665
00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:27.480
I quite like it.

666
00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:28.199
It's tied.

667
00:44:28.260 --> 00:44:29.940
He's wearing a tie T-shirt that looks good on him.

668
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.679
Yeah, God, if they were doing this all the time, you know, double crosses and things on enterprise.

669
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:36.119
This would be a great fun show to watch.

670
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:41.400
Do you think that the set of the bridge set is more colourful than normal?

671
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:44.760
I mean, it's not much more colourful than normal.

672
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.099
But I feel there's a bit more red in there than usual.

673
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:51.420
Yeah, and displays of stuff and stuff are a little bit more interesting.

674
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.059
They know we're about to go to this amazingly colourful set.

675
00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:56.280
Yeah, maybe, maybe.

676
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.980
I like the symbol on the door there.

677
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

678
00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:02.460
I mean, it's very subtle, isn't it?

679
00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:03.780
A huge knife going through the earth.

680
00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:05.400
Going through the earth.

681
00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:09.059
Oh, look at Archer at the door.

682
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.940
I really like how this works.

683
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:18.900
Like, again, he's clever at double crossing because he's from a world that operates on those terms.

684
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:21.659
So he manages to make himself indispensable.

685
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.360
Is he wearing jaw girls?

686
00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:25.679
Has he just come from his trailer?

687
00:45:25.739 --> 00:45:27.179
Is it time for my shot?

688
00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:30.239
Those clothes are so casual.

689
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:36.059
I do like, I love all of the, like, who can be trusted?

690
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:39.059
It's going to be murdered next all well. love all of that.

691
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:40.079
All of that's really fun.

692
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:44.280
This is how I imagine if we were going to have our sort of Klingon series, we'd spend every episode, you know.

693
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:45.840
Yeah.

694
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:51.420
Oh, now I'm talking to you now.

695
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:52.139
Yes, good.

696
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:56.880
Excellent. 10 hours in the booth, says Dr. Flux.

697
00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:57.659
Impressive.

698
00:45:57.719 --> 00:45:58.559
Look at him.

699
00:45:58.619 --> 00:45:59.400
It's so great.

700
00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:05.039
He's a twisted also, isn't he?

701
00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:05.639
Don't you float?

702
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:07.019
Yeah.

703
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:12.539
Maybe he's right to not like not chew the scenery to kind of just rein it in a little bit.

704
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:13.920
Maybe that's the right decision.

705
00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:16.679
Much like every episode of Event Prize.

706
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:20.579
Whenever he's on the screen in this super art up, my eyes go to him straight away.

707
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:22.199
Oh no, he's great.

708
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:27.300
He has a weird way of owning every scene, even when he's not the focus at all.

709
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:42.119
So Fleet Admiral Gardner does get a mention, I think, in other episodes, I might have said this before, but he doesn't actually appear in any episode other than, I think, next week.

710
00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:46.440
You betrayed me.

711
00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:48.659
Don't think for one moment I'm going to forget that.

712
00:46:50.099 --> 00:46:52.079
And down he goes.

713
00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:54.659
Yeah, you know, it's indispensable.

714
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:59.460
Like, you know, the phonia webs come in, the defiance come in, the gaunts come in.

715
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:00.599
We do need it.

716
00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:02.880
We couldn't have had 2 episodes of justice.

717
00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:03.960
No, no, absolutely not.

718
00:47:04.019 --> 00:47:06.059
I'm starting to kind of...

719
00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:06.599
Yeah.

720
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:07.800
Well, I think we both are.

721
00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:13.320
Yeah, it was at this point of the episode where I was going, come on now. get things moving.

722
00:47:13.380 --> 00:47:21.840
But I think if you just squeeze all of that, the corn, the folians, the defiant into one episode, it would have just gone by a bit too fast.

723
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:23.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

724
00:47:23.820 --> 00:47:45.900
Well, I mean, what this, see, that image there, so that description of interphasic space, that is based on a graphic that's shown to the crew in the Tholian web, where they're explaining where Kirk has gone, because the original thing is, Kirk's on the defiant, it disappears into interphasic space and they think he's gone with it and they can't recover him.

725
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:55.079
And so that image there with those those lines, you know, like creating a hole in space, that's actually from the folian ware.

726
00:47:55.139 --> 00:47:56.400
Season is the folium web.

727
00:47:56.460 --> 00:47:57.659
Season three.

728
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:58.739
It's three.

729
00:47:58.800 --> 00:47:59.280
Is it good?

730
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:00.420
It's a good episode.

731
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:01.440
Yeah, yeah.

732
00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:06.119
There's one or 2 unfortunate moments and it has some sexist moments like this does.

733
00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:08.820
But on the whole, it's pretty strong.

734
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.860
Freiburger could get it raw then.

735
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:13.019
Well, yeah, ish.

736
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:15.420
I mean, there are good episodes in series three.

737
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:16.320
They not all terrible.

738
00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:17.280
We watch one, haven't we?

739
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:19.619
Spectra in the G. Spector of the Garden. great.

740
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:22.800
We've gone nowhere near than the deer yet though.

741
00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:23.639
No.

742
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:28.019
And we did Spock's brain, which is somewhere near the Nadir, I think, probably.

743
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:42.480
But, and certainly, I did have a little moment when I saw the closing credits and the, like, the crap joke at the end and Kirk smiling and then, uh, you know, produced by Freddie Freiberger appears on the bottom of the screen, which is always upsetting to see.

744
00:48:42.539 --> 00:48:46.980
Imagine if you like just switched on now. like, oh, shit, enterprise is on.

745
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:48.179
I've missed a start.

746
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:48.599
Oh, well.

747
00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:54.059
And it's them around the tactical table there, but they've all got crazy hair and scars all over their faces.

748
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:58.260
Do you think people would realise straight away that this is alternative universe or just go, what happened?

749
00:48:58.320 --> 00:48:59.460
I was only gone half an hour.

750
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:00.840
No, no.

751
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:03.539
Anyway, Star Trek would know, I think.

752
00:49:05.219 --> 00:49:07.920
And, you know, to Paul's makeup.

753
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:14.699
To be fun, this is still like, at this point, it's still within the realms of a regular Star Trek episode, right?

754
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:19.860
Like we've done a bit of double crossing, but we've been on the ship, we're investigating something.

755
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:24.900
Yeah, I think, you know, like it is the double crossing.

756
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:35.760
It's the, like, removing the captain and putting him in the brig and then taking over and, you know, torturing people and stuff, like they've only got the one booth, but I, yeah, she does have a pierce navel.

757
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:44.039
There was a very strange line, wasn't there, about the 2 of them, uh, to po and trip, him sort of saying how many times they've done it before.

758
00:49:44.099 --> 00:49:48.420
Yeah, he says I had a really good time or something like that.

759
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:49.500
Oh, here we go.

760
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:50.820
Yeah, here's a flashback look.

761
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:54.059
No, so that sort of flashback to their original thing.

762
00:49:54.119 --> 00:50:04.679
That's a flashback to earlier during the time of the episode where she, um, mind melded with him, uh, said she was gonna fuck him and then got him to sabotage the thing.

763
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:10.500
So he he sabotages the thing and then she wipes his memory.

764
00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:15.719
I thought her performance, Jolene Blaylocks was the closest to what she normally plays.

765
00:50:15.900 --> 00:50:24.360
Yeah, but remember the Spock, you know, we see Mirror Universe, Spock in Mirror, Mirror, and he is the same.

766
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:27.360
Because he's a Vulcan, you know?

767
00:50:28.139 --> 00:50:30.420
So I think that's fair enough.

768
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:31.860
I don't know.

769
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:33.599
I think Linda Park's having all the fun though.

770
00:50:33.659 --> 00:50:35.159
Yeah, she's so great.

771
00:50:35.219 --> 00:50:38.219
I think that's why I prefer the 2nd episode.

772
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:39.659
She gets a lot to do with that 2nd episode.

773
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

774
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:41.460
Yeah.

775
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:44.340
Well, and just, and I'll just keep saying it.

776
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.679
It's just some nicer looking sets.

777
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:49.380
It's... eyeballs.

778
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:54.420
I mean, look, they're turning the lights down here on the enterprise set.

779
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:55.440
Can you really tell the difference?

780
00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:56.039
I can't.

781
00:50:56.099 --> 00:50:57.599
No, no, it's so miserable.

782
00:50:57.659 --> 00:50:57.960
All right?

783
00:50:58.019 --> 00:50:58.619
They're cloaking.

784
00:50:58.679 --> 00:50:59.820
Woo, that looks really cool.

785
00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:00.900
That was awesome.

786
00:51:01.619 --> 00:51:04.079
Okay, we've reached the coordinates.

787
00:51:04.139 --> 00:51:05.699
I think this is really going to start picking up now.

788
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:06.960
Yeah, something's gonna happen.

789
00:51:07.019 --> 00:51:10.079
Yeah, because we're gonna come across the defiant now, aren't we?

790
00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:10.920
Mhm.

791
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:12.239
Yeah.

792
00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:13.800
That's not a bad...

793
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:14.639
Oh, no.

794
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:16.260
Yeah, I think that looks pretty good.

795
00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:19.260
The gas giant in the system that we heard about.

796
00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.599
Magnify the moon to the far right.

797
00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:22.320
There's something there.

798
00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:23.400
OMG.

799
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:23.940
Yep.

800
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:24.719
And there it is.

801
00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:25.440
He's found it.

802
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:26.940
The defiant.

803
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:27.599
Hooray.

804
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:28.679
So what is that?

805
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:31.320
What is that?

806
00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:32.639
Where is that more?

807
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:33.659
The docking thing.

808
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:35.820
Like, it's in the moon.

809
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.539
They've dug a big hole in the moon and...

810
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:40.800
Yeah, look, it's great.

811
00:51:40.860 --> 00:51:42.119
But those little shit.

812
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:43.920
This is what they can do with CGI.

813
00:51:43.980 --> 00:51:45.360
The little ships running around.

814
00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:47.219
The gridding everywhere.

815
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:48.300
They can do that detail.

816
00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:49.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

817
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.860
The little ships aren't taken directly from Natholeon Web.

818
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.139
That's what the ships look like in the Natholeon web too.

819
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:58.800
Oh, that's a really nice graphic on the wall there.

820
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:00.780
That sort of colourful graphic.

821
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:02.159
Yeah, it's cute.

822
00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:04.320
I think the graphics are more colourful here.

823
00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:10.019
We've detected no lie signs, but more visually arresting sets. lets go.

824
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:10.440
Yeah.

825
00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:11.579
Yeah let's go.

826
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:25.559
And so they're suggesting that the crew is executed, but of course, when the crew of the Enterprise go on board the Defiant, they learn that the crew have all killed one another and everyone on board is dead.

827
00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:28.440
And that's what Giorgio says later.

828
00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:37.739
So she says the defiant crossed through interphasic space and that resulted in the temporal anomaly and had devastating cognitive effects on every crew member.

829
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:38.519
They went insane.

830
00:52:38.579 --> 00:52:39.719
They tore each other apart.

831
00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:52.139
And it's actually one of the most upsetting things in Natholeon Web is they're wandering through and there's just dead people everywhere, including women with fabulous 60s hairstyles in those minis comics.

832
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:53.639
Yeah, probably.

833
00:52:53.699 --> 00:52:54.719
Yeah.

834
00:52:55.739 --> 00:53:01.739
Come on now, we're heading over to the...

835
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:02.460
Not fight yet.

836
00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:05.039
There it is It's like desperate for them together.

837
00:53:05.099 --> 00:53:06.119
Yeah, Blaze.

838
00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:06.840
Here we go.

839
00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:10.260
Transportation effect was pretty great as well. great, doesn't it?

840
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:11.280
It looks really good.

841
00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:15.300
And it's really nice because you've got the enterprise sort of space suits there.

842
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:16.800
The original series says.

843
00:53:16.860 --> 00:53:20.460
I like it when it's sort of the 2 eras bleed together like that.

844
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:25.199
Oh my god, the spacesuits in the Thalian web are so bad.

845
00:53:25.260 --> 00:53:27.179
Are they all really amazing?

846
00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:32.280
They look like giant microphones on their heads.

847
00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:34.440
Somebody tell me...

848
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:35.219
We want to see it.

849
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:47.280
Apparently, though, apparently the detail that they put into where the bodies were and all of this on the Defiant, they watch that episode again and again and again to get it right.

850
00:53:47.340 --> 00:53:58.440
Yeah, because that line about the captain's neck being broken is also what they say on, uh, on in the Tholian web.

851
00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:07.380
They notice like the captains on the ground with someone's, you know, hands around his neck and he's, say that's how we see him here.

852
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:11.400
You know what he's got a look of, flocks, when he's evil like that?

853
00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:16.800
He reminds me a bit of when Bilbo Baggins goes bad in Lord of the Rings, you know?

854
00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:22.139
That sort of normally nice old man with a sadistic gleam in his eye.

855
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:24.539
Look at that.

856
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:25.679
He's loving it, isn't he?

857
00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:27.000
His contacts were amazing.

858
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:29.099
Yeah, he's doing really well, isn't he?

859
00:54:29.219 --> 00:54:29.699
He's great.

860
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:33.179
Just so good. face is not moving at all, is he?

861
00:54:33.539 --> 00:54:36.599
Will you kindly die, he says.

862
00:54:36.659 --> 00:54:38.460
Yeah, yeah, he's doing really well.

863
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:39.539
There it goes.

864
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:41.400
Is it crystalline then?

865
00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:42.300
It seems to shatter.

866
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:43.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

867
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:46.619
But all of that, like all you get to see is the head.

868
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:49.559
You learn nothing about the Tholians from the episode at all.

869
00:54:49.619 --> 00:54:56.579
And they are much quicker at building a web than they are in the Tholian web.

870
00:54:56.699 --> 00:55:00.719
Did you watch it with the new CGI web or the old?

871
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:03.239
But it is pretty sympathetic to the old one.

872
00:55:03.300 --> 00:55:06.000
Like, basically they don't attempt anything too fancy.

873
00:55:06.059 --> 00:55:10.380
It is just 2 ships slowly going across the screen laying the web behind them.

874
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:12.840
You see where these bodies are on the bridge.

875
00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:14.159
Is that where they were in the phone?

876
00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:15.179
You've only just watched this.

877
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:18.420
I have only just watched it. sort of in the middle of the bridge.

878
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:22.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. near the near the thing, near the captain's chair.

879
00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:28.380
See, this is where I got really, Oh, look at this, the web.

880
00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:29.159
Yeah, yeah.

881
00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:33.300
Yeah, so this is more impressive.

882
00:55:33.300 --> 00:55:34.980
Absolutely.

883
00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:35.699
Napoleon web.

884
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.980
This is what Star Trek should always be doing.

885
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:40.679
It should always be, because that's quite simple, right?

886
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:45.480
I mean, I know it's an expensive effect, but it's quite a simple idea, but it just looks so striking.

887
00:55:45.539 --> 00:55:47.820
It's unlike anything you're gonna see elsewhere.

888
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:49.380
Yeah, yeah.

889
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:53.699
So not at all what you get in the Star Trek.

890
00:55:53.699 --> 00:55:54.239
Oh, really?

891
00:55:54.300 --> 00:55:55.619
show series episode.

892
00:55:55.739 --> 00:55:57.420
What does that look like?

893
00:55:57.539 --> 00:56:11.699
Slightly less 3D. Much less 3D, uh, and it is, it's the ship's just slowly crossing back and forth over a period of about 20 minutes, uh, laying the web.

894
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:13.559
But somewhat more tellingly.

895
00:56:13.619 --> 00:56:17.400
That's also more visually interesting than what we normally see in Enterprise as well.

896
00:56:17.460 --> 00:56:18.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

897
00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:22.380
And we've borrowed it. you know, 14 years later.

898
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:23.579
Yeah, exactly.

899
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:24.480
Yeah.

900
00:56:24.539 --> 00:56:26.940
We should be doing that sort of weird all the time.

901
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:28.079
Yeah exactly.

902
00:56:28.980 --> 00:56:32.519
Yeah, now my interest is I'm captured again now.

903
00:56:32.579 --> 00:56:34.199
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

904
00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:37.199
Because we are on the set and something exciting is happening.

905
00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:40.019
And all the lights got on in the dead bodies there.

906
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:42.360
Are the lights gone on the outside?

907
00:56:42.420 --> 00:56:48.420
This is everything I ever wanted from Enterprise, you know, walking around on the original series bridge.

908
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:50.940
Look how colourful it is.

909
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:51.780
It looks so great.

910
00:56:51.960 --> 00:57:06.840
And interestingly, Manikoto says he was really worried because of our, the usual level of sophistication in our sets, he says that, you know, people would think it's quite plain and dull that we go over to the TOS sets, are you mad?

911
00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:09.300
Are you serious, make it?

912
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:10.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

913
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:14.340
Your sophisticated governmental gray can bog off.

914
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:23.400
But you know you've got those big flats that are sort of fairly featureless in the original enterprise corridors and stuff. brilliantly.

915
00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:24.960
That's why all the gels come in.

916
00:57:25.019 --> 00:57:25.800
That's exactly.

917
00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:26.699
Yeah, yeah.

918
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:31.079
There's a bit less gels, I think, probably in this, like the way they should.

919
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:33.900
Walk around there quite a lot.

920
00:57:33.960 --> 00:57:37.559
This was when I got really excited when they blew up Enterprise.

921
00:57:37.619 --> 00:57:38.280
I was like, yes.

922
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:40.920
Yeah, yeah, and blew up Forrester again.

923
00:57:40.980 --> 00:57:43.920
It is another one of those trek cliches, isn't it?

924
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:48.960
We'll only blow up, you know, enterprise G in course of an effect when we're in a time loop and we can undo it.

925
00:57:49.019 --> 00:57:55.260
When I need blow up DS9, when O'Brien's having visions of the future, and we'll change what happens in the future.

926
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:59.340
I have watched them crash the Enterprise, do you remember though?

927
00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:02.219
Well, and we watched them Destroy the Defiant as well.

928
00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:03.960
Change your face of evil.

929
00:58:04.019 --> 00:58:06.000
Look at all this now.

930
00:58:06.059 --> 00:58:07.320
This is where all the money's gone.

931
00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:08.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

932
00:58:08.940 --> 00:58:11.519
The little, oh, look, some of them explode when they hit the web.

933
00:58:11.579 --> 00:58:14.280
Do they have no, they don't like splash if they pick them up.

934
00:58:14.340 --> 00:58:15.960
It's out of the enterprise sets now.

935
00:58:16.019 --> 00:58:17.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

936
00:58:17.340 --> 00:58:17.820
It's awesome.

937
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.280
They saved it for the end of the season to shoot this.

938
00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:21.780
Just before they tore them down.

939
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:30.599
Do you think the view thing comes out of the, uh, comes out of the thing using a mechanism that must have been more expensive than the whole original set?

940
00:58:30.659 --> 00:58:32.820
There we go. explode.

941
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:37.199
So, I mean, can you think of anything more cool than that than that way?

942
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.139
Yeah, that is great. away on a starship and the ship.

943
00:58:40.139 --> 00:58:40.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

944
00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:42.420
Blowing to smithereens.

945
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:43.980
And then we're into the cliffhanger.

946
00:58:44.039 --> 00:58:50.340
Yeah, yeah. awesome. that's so good Yeah, I did think that did get a bit flabby in the middle.

947
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:52.139
Yeah, yeah.

948
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:57.599
I think it is the weaker of the 2 episodes, but I have to say that I was pretty hooked by that point.

949
00:58:57.659 --> 00:59:07.860
Um, but yeah, it perhaps is a little bit less interesting that I remember from watching it uh, yesterday.

950
00:59:07.980 --> 00:59:10.440
I only watched it yesterday as well.

951
00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:15.300
I think effectively the 2nd the Defiant appears in that move.

952
00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:20.099
This two-parter just runs right up until the very last scene.

953
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:37.860
And and I think this one, like I said, the 2nd one justifies its existence as part of this show by having the, um, files on the, on the defiant inspire a rebellion, I think.

954
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:54.420
I wonder if the if the original plan had gone ahead, and this had just been one episode, we might have, they might have excised all of that interesting subplot in part 2 about, um, to pull, trying to pull together all the aliens and takeover.

955
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:58.920
We may have lost either the Foley and Webb or the gore, one part of it or another.

956
00:59:58.980 --> 01:00:06.900
So I think the extra time is good, but there is just 15 minutes there where you're like, okay, where's this going?

957
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:14.340
Get moving Yeah, I mean, I don't think that we were ever in any danger of getting less than 2 episodes, though, were we?

958
01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:16.679
I mean, this is series 4 of Enterprise.

959
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:18.780
That's all they do is 2 and 3 parties.

960
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:23.699
Sussman says he was originally just put down to do one episode and then they said they wanted to do two.

961
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:24.179
Yeah.

962
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:25.980
I think they made the right choice.

963
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:27.480
Yeah, I did too.

964
01:00:27.539 --> 01:00:41.219
Because I do think, you know, we said that about Kashara, like we only did Kashara because it's a three-parter, I think, and our rule is, if it's an episode of a two-parter, we do both, but if it's a three-parter, then we just do the one.

965
01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:53.579
But we did watch it and we felt that it was a really just an expansive story that having 3 episodes meant that they could reach for something that changed the status quo and did something interesting.

966
01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:55.860
What's really sad?

967
01:00:55.920 --> 01:00:58.920
I know we've talked about this before is obviously I know every show.

968
01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:01.079
It takes a little while to get going, right?

969
01:01:01.139 --> 01:01:04.199
You learn what your cast can do.

970
01:01:04.260 --> 01:01:07.619
You learn what your premise can do. you know, DS9 took a while.

971
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:09.539
TNG took a while. fair enough.

972
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:15.179
Man, oh, man, imagine if they got here in series 4, where we would be in series 4.

973
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:27.059
Yeah, like in a way in year, you know, 15 or something of this version of Star Trek, you know, this era of Star Trek.

974
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:30.300
They shouldn't really be failing.

975
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:31.559
Do you know what I mean?

976
01:01:31.619 --> 01:01:33.719
Like they should really already know how to make it.

977
01:01:33.780 --> 01:01:45.420
And because they've deliberately made some dumb creative decisions because they think, you know, they're trying to sort of extricate Star Trek from Star Trek.

978
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:47.639
I mean, they're not even calling it Star Trek at that point.

979
01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:50.099
And those are dumb decisions that they have to walk back.

980
01:01:50.219 --> 01:01:55.380
And then, you know, series 3 just goes off format altogether.

981
01:01:55.619 --> 01:02:01.019
And so, you know, like, it's really only in four.

982
01:02:01.139 --> 01:02:04.800
And it's not the 2 and 3 partners that I like about four.

983
01:02:04.860 --> 01:02:08.699
It is just the sort of continual storytelling, which I just think works really well.

984
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:10.679
I'm not the vibe before, though.

985
01:02:10.739 --> 01:02:17.579
I just feel like there's a confidence in 4 that isn't there in the rest of the series and that's come from Maniko, so I think.

986
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:20.280
The reason, we've talked about this.

987
01:02:20.340 --> 01:02:29.159
The reason Enterprise technically failed is because 2 old hands that they've been doing this show for over the franchise for over a decade now.

988
01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:32.519
They were just knackered and what else can you bring?

989
01:02:32.579 --> 01:02:35.579
And yeah, they were making lots of stupid decisions.

990
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:42.300
Finally, someone comes in, a breath of fresh air who hasn't showrun Star Trek ever before and said, right, let's go.

991
01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:43.619
And then the blow comes.

992
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:46.199
Yeah, compared to shame.

993
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:53.099
The more I watch four, the more irritated I get because I think there's huge potential in this show.

994
01:02:53.219 --> 01:03:04.079
Do you know the thing that annoys me about it is that it's kind of received fan wisdom that 4 is really great and it does sort of things and it annoys me to agree with that?

995
01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:06.900
But it is... a lot.

996
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:07.679
It is true.

997
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:08.760
I think it is true.

998
01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:16.739
And even though they do like a stupid, you know, story about why Klingons have ridges, which is such a dumb idea.

999
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:18.179
Do you know what I mean?

1000
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:22.320
It's all just done with so much fun and so much love for the original series.

1001
01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:25.619
And, you know, just...

1002
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:26.579
Yeah, it is a confidence.

1003
01:03:26.639 --> 01:03:29.699
Like they just tell kind of fun stories.

1004
01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:30.599
Do you know what I mean?

1005
01:03:30.659 --> 01:03:33.539
without the chip on their shoulder about being Star Trek.

1006
01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:34.739
You know, I don't know.

1007
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:35.460
I liked it.

1008
01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:37.320
Well, I like it too.

1009
01:03:37.380 --> 01:03:39.659
Should we go and watch an episode we both like?

1010
01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:43.079
I think we should watch episode two.

1011
01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:46.320
All right, so I'll count it in then.

1012
01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:52.380
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

1013
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:57.960
This might be my favourite episode of Enterprise that we've done today.

1014
01:03:58.019 --> 01:03:59.639
I can't wait.

1015
01:03:59.699 --> 01:04:00.119
Really?

1016
01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:00.659
Yeah.

1017
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:01.619
Yeah, yeah.

1018
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:03.239
Yeah, no that's fair enough.

1019
01:04:03.300 --> 01:04:06.059
It's so nice to be able to say positive things about this show.

1020
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:07.619
Yeah, yeah.

1021
01:04:07.679 --> 01:04:09.900
Because we usually so horrible.

1022
01:04:12.179 --> 01:04:17.159
Of course they got that midrift shot in the previously not enterprise.

1023
01:04:17.219 --> 01:04:18.360
So upsetting.

1024
01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:26.940
Actually, look, it's very, it's very telling, you know, that the larger percentage of the previously on is from the last 5 minutes.

1025
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:28.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1026
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:31.559
Yeah, when it's visually, really interesting and stuff.

1027
01:04:31.619 --> 01:04:33.059
Yeah, I love that way.

1028
01:04:33.900 --> 01:04:41.880
Yeah, it's great seeing a detailed version of the Little Tholian ships as well. going through Enterprise being blown to shit.

1029
01:04:41.940 --> 01:04:44.280
Admiral Forrest, the explosion.

1030
01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:47.280
You'd think it couldn't get any better.

1031
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:51.239
And then when they said the word gone, I was like, yes, I know.

1032
01:04:53.219 --> 01:04:58.139
And the Gordon is really just like, oh, we haven't done a Gordon.

1033
01:04:58.199 --> 01:04:58.980
Do you know what I mean?

1034
01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:00.840
We have to fit a Gordian somehow.

1035
01:05:00.900 --> 01:05:03.000
It's just like...

1036
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:05.639
You could have just been a humanoid captain of...

1037
01:05:05.639 --> 01:05:08.099
That would have been so much more boring.

1038
01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:18.059
And and we've said it before. the gone in this, the CG gone in this is the gone that's in Strange New World.

1039
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:18.780
Yes.

1040
01:05:18.780 --> 01:05:22.260
The Gordian Strange Worlds don't look like the Gorn from Arena.

1041
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:24.599
They look like the gone from this episode.

1042
01:05:24.659 --> 01:05:30.179
Neither Enterprise or Strange New Worlds was ever going to do that cumbersome costume, were they?

1043
01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:36.599
Although it is pretty great. when they're talking about doing the corn on memory alpha.

1044
01:05:36.659 --> 01:05:40.860
They said, can we do the costume and Manicoto was like, no.

1045
01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:44.519
No, will you do this as CGI or not?

1046
01:05:44.579 --> 01:05:46.380
Can we do it?

1047
01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:50.039
Oh, here we go into that.

1048
01:05:50.340 --> 01:05:54.300
The scary black credits with...

1049
01:05:54.360 --> 01:06:00.719
They did mention that that was deliberate, you know, to show just how menacing everything's got Star Trek Enterprises no longer in white.

1050
01:06:00.780 --> 01:06:01.980
It's black.

1051
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:02.519
Yeah.

1052
01:06:02.519 --> 01:06:04.320
Don't even, all right?

1053
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:07.079
Oh, here we go.

1054
01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:07.619
Yeah.

1055
01:06:07.679 --> 01:06:08.340
Yeah.

1056
01:06:09.539 --> 01:06:11.280
I really love this.

1057
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:13.199
Yeah, I do too.

1058
01:06:13.260 --> 01:06:13.980
I think it's great.

1059
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:17.219
It's always a fun thing. shows can almost never afford it.

1060
01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:24.300
The 2 title sequences show yours and mine approach to Star Trek, you know, you like it being optimistic.

1061
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:28.380
You know, a view of humanity going out into space aspiring to being better.

1062
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:33.179
And there's me, the realist, watching the bombs falling.

1063
01:06:33.179 --> 01:06:34.800
Watching us, everyone's miserable.

1064
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:39.000
People were destroying planets, the terrible CGI man on the moon.

1065
01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:44.340
What's making the flag ripple on the moon in that shot?

1066
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:46.739
imagine if Bill Armstrom would look that bad.

1067
01:06:48.659 --> 01:06:51.539
It's not real dragon's teeth.

1068
01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:52.920
Is that what your best teeth?

1069
01:06:52.980 --> 01:06:53.280
Yeah.

1070
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:53.639
Yeah.

1071
01:06:53.699 --> 01:06:59.699
And then obviously footage from other enterprise episodes, as they are in stock cave set number four, sort of coming down.

1072
01:06:59.820 --> 01:07:00.900
It's number one.

1073
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:05.219
And then, of course, the knife going straight through the earth.

1074
01:07:05.340 --> 01:07:06.719
Exactly.

1075
01:07:06.780 --> 01:07:07.920
So awesome.

1076
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:08.699
Exciting.

1077
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:10.800
Yes, look at this sad.

1078
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:12.360
Enterprise is destroyed.

1079
01:07:12.420 --> 01:07:14.820
We're on safe territory now with the sets.

1080
01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:16.500
Yeah, on the defiant.

1081
01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:17.280
So good.

1082
01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:24.480
Alan, just watch the director of photography, Marvin Rush is directing this now.

1083
01:07:24.539 --> 01:07:27.059
And as you and I have spoken about off Mike.

1084
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:28.380
He's only done a couple of episodes.

1085
01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:30.000
He did the host for TNG.

1086
01:07:30.059 --> 01:07:32.699
The Thor for Voyager.

1087
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:36.840
So they usually bring him in when there's some sort of visually demanding things to do.

1088
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:40.139
And he lights this episode brilliantly.

1089
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:41.340
Yeah.

1090
01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:41.940
Yeah.

1091
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.420
It's not quite lit like original trek, is it?

1092
01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:47.519
But that's okay, I think.

1093
01:07:47.579 --> 01:07:50.280
It's like you said, it's more than television.

1094
01:07:50.340 --> 01:07:58.920
It would be like if they, you know, where they did, um, when they've done things in Kurtzman track, had they just made it look like the original, they would do it, would they?

1095
01:07:58.980 --> 01:08:00.840
It's still modern television.

1096
01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:02.159
Well, this isn't now.

1097
01:08:02.219 --> 01:08:10.559
And in fact, when we go back to the Enterprise in series 2 of Discovery, they make the decision to update it.

1098
01:08:10.619 --> 01:08:14.159
It's not just a copy like this or relics.

1099
01:08:14.219 --> 01:08:21.539
They decide to make it big and expansive and look modern and stuff, which is, of course, the right decision so many years later, I think.

1100
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:26.520
Not only did they steal the defiant, but they also fire off...

1101
01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:28.500
They do photon torpedoes to blow up the moon.

1102
01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:29.039
Yeah.

1103
01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:30.840
Yeah. true assholes.

1104
01:08:34.739 --> 01:08:39.420
Yeah, you can't help but really hate Archer.

1105
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:41.819
Yeah, even more than usual.

1106
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:44.159
Yeah, that's exactly right.

1107
01:08:44.220 --> 01:08:51.060
Maybe, maybe the alternative Archer should have been a really nice guy like Scott Bakula, you know, really fun.

1108
01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:53.460
That's the alternative version.

1109
01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:56.699
Yeah, that's right, charming and likeable.

1110
01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:58.199
He rides horses.

1111
01:08:58.260 --> 01:08:59.579
He plays classical music.

1112
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:01.020
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1113
01:09:01.079 --> 01:09:02.159
That's right.

1114
01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:04.140
He doesn't know what water polo is.

1115
01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:05.819
He still has a dog, obviously.

1116
01:09:06.300 --> 01:09:07.680
Yeah.

1117
01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:14.939
That would have been a proper insult, though, wouldn't it?

1118
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:16.260
I don't think they'd go that far.

1119
01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:17.220
No.

1120
01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:30.479
No, I quite like what they do here, where, where in a way, they get a kind of look into a world that's much better than theirs.

1121
01:09:30.539 --> 01:09:34.739
You know, where you're not constantly living in fear of being stabbed.

1122
01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:42.000
Uh, you know, and where he is a good person who's famous and recognised.

1123
01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:44.340
And because he is such a fucking loser.

1124
01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:46.619
You know, we, he's still a commander.

1125
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:51.899
We don't see him in charge of the ship, you know, like that, it's surprising, isn't it?

1126
01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:58.020
That 1st captain's log in the 1st episode where it's being read by someone else and you kind of go, where's where's Archer?

1127
01:09:58.739 --> 01:10:07.680
And I really, really love the moment when Tapol goes up to flocks and says, this is how things are, like, we're equals.

1128
01:10:07.739 --> 01:10:10.319
And flux is appalled, isn't he?

1129
01:10:10.380 --> 01:10:12.960
And he sort of holds back for quite a bit.

1130
01:10:13.079 --> 01:10:14.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1131
01:10:14.819 --> 01:10:22.439
As if, you know, he's been put in his place and he cannot imagine. that ever being the case where he's an E4?

1132
01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:23.039
that's right.

1133
01:10:23.100 --> 01:10:23.640
Yeah.

1134
01:10:23.699 --> 01:10:28.500
It's a lot more interesting than these alternative universe episodes usually are, that's for sure.

1135
01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:29.640
Yeah, I think so.

1136
01:10:29.760 --> 01:10:30.779
I think so too.

1137
01:10:31.500 --> 01:10:47.100
But like, like, we've recently done an episode which we both really, really hated about an alternative version of the crew discovering that there is a better version of the crew elsewhere, and that was coarse oblivion.

1138
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:53.520
Well, yeah, except that was an alternative version of the crew who were better than our crew, like they were nearly home.

1139
01:10:53.579 --> 01:10:55.140
You know, they were doing a much better job.

1140
01:10:55.140 --> 01:10:57.899
But the normal crew, were they?

1141
01:10:57.960 --> 01:10:58.739
No, that's true.

1142
01:10:58.800 --> 01:11:00.119
That's true.

1143
01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:06.420
But what we watch there is lots of just kind of gross, ugly crap.

1144
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:07.199
Do you know what I mean?

1145
01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:12.060
I just think that the reaction to learning is so much more interesting here there.

1146
01:11:12.180 --> 01:11:16.859
It's like, well, we're just going to try and find them and accept the inevitable eventually, you know.

1147
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:18.960
Look at, look.

1148
01:11:19.020 --> 01:11:20.640
Oh, the uniform.

1149
01:11:20.699 --> 01:11:21.659
Oh, she.

1150
01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:24.659
Yes, that is such a great choice.

1151
01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:26.699
Holy crap, can we get ocean?

1152
01:11:30.659 --> 01:11:34.319
We have to go back to normal ball against Bryan's next week.

1153
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:37.140
Oh, no, it's demons and terrible episodes.

1154
01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:37.680
That's true.

1155
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:37.920
Yeah.

1156
01:11:37.979 --> 01:11:38.880
That is true.

1157
01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:48.779
It is quite telling though, isn't it, that, and they did know at this point they were going out, that in the last 5 episodes, 3 of the five.

1158
01:11:48.899 --> 01:11:55.859
Whatever you're going to say to me right now, pause it, are not in our universe, you know?

1159
01:11:55.920 --> 01:11:57.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1160
01:11:57.180 --> 01:11:59.039
It's like, well, let's do all the things we could do.

1161
01:11:59.100 --> 01:12:01.739
We'll do a TNG episode, disguise us an enterprise episode.

1162
01:12:01.800 --> 01:12:05.039
We'll do an alternative universe episode. and we'll do a two-part wrap up.

1163
01:12:05.100 --> 01:12:06.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1164
01:12:07.020 --> 01:12:13.140
Well, and it's a it's a good call because it's mostly all very entertaining apart from the last episode.

1165
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:14.640
But, yeah.

1166
01:12:14.640 --> 01:12:16.140
Yeah.

1167
01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:19.739
I just can't imagine any of the other shows going out on this, though.

1168
01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:21.000
No.

1169
01:12:21.060 --> 01:12:22.140
Yeah.

1170
01:12:22.199 --> 01:12:25.739
Oh, look, there's our little dorky Hoshi there.

1171
01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:33.060
A little picture of her being a bit dorky rather than our incredibly sexy and self-confident one, I hear.

1172
01:12:33.180 --> 01:12:46.800
Well, they sort of conceptualiser in the prime universe as a character who is obviously very smart, good with languages, but very nervous of the transporters and a bit sort of socially distant from everybody.

1173
01:12:46.859 --> 01:12:50.279
And whilst those are things to explore.

1174
01:12:50.340 --> 01:12:52.619
One, they don't do it much.

1175
01:12:52.680 --> 01:12:54.899
Maybe once a year, maybe once a year they do that.

1176
01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:59.039
And two, it doesn't make her very fun to be around.

1177
01:12:59.100 --> 01:13:01.199
Not like this character. that's go wrong.

1178
01:13:01.260 --> 01:13:04.439
Poisoning and fucking people left right in the centre.

1179
01:13:04.500 --> 01:13:13.739
But I don't think I'd ever realised how beautiful she is, and I think it's the makeup, but more than that, it's just how relaxed. smile.

1180
01:13:13.800 --> 01:13:16.619
Look at that beautiful confident smile.

1181
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:17.760
She's so gorgeous.

1182
01:13:17.819 --> 01:13:19.859
She's usually so mousey.

1183
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:21.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1184
01:13:22.020 --> 01:13:33.119
And so reading this thing where she's reading what a great success, this version of Archer is from their world, whereas this guy is such a fucking loser.

1185
01:13:33.180 --> 01:13:35.279
You know, look how angry he is.

1186
01:13:35.340 --> 01:13:36.899
Two planets were named after him.

1187
01:13:36.960 --> 01:13:44.520
I mean, I'm not entirely sure I recognise that other archer either from the evidence that we've seen.

1188
01:13:44.579 --> 01:13:49.439
There is a planet called Archer 2 that gets mentioned in Star Trek, the next.

1189
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:59.640
And they've taken the 4th last episode of this to, you know, to make it canon that that planet is named after Jonathan Archer.

1190
01:13:59.699 --> 01:14:02.939
It's between Aldea and Denib 4.

1191
01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:05.399
Oh, Chitsu.

1192
01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:07.079
I'm looking it up.

1193
01:14:07.619 --> 01:14:17.279
But you can you can actually feel the actors responding to the scripts in this in a way that you don't normally feel that watching Enterprise.

1194
01:14:17.399 --> 01:14:19.979
Yeah, look at the light in there.

1195
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:22.920
My God, all the shadows. so good.

1196
01:14:22.979 --> 01:14:27.479
Oh, there was one hilarious moment in this episode, Nathan.

1197
01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:31.079
When the gorn attacks the fella in the tube and lifts him up.

1198
01:14:31.140 --> 01:14:33.300
There's no resistance to him.

1199
01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:35.939
It just all goes, whoop, up tube.

1200
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:37.680
It's really tight.

1201
01:14:37.739 --> 01:14:38.880
It's quite terribly dumb.

1202
01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:42.840
You know, Kurtzman would have gone, let's go for another take.

1203
01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:47.819
Um, no, I've just discovered the planet's called Archer 4.

1204
01:14:48.239 --> 01:14:51.300
Uh, and it is...

1205
01:14:51.300 --> 01:14:52.199
So is there's a four?

1206
01:14:52.260 --> 01:14:53.760
Does that then mean there's one, two, and three?

1207
01:14:53.819 --> 01:14:55.260
I think so.

1208
01:14:55.319 --> 01:15:00.720
And they call it Archer 4 and that's the planet that they land on in Strange New World, apparently.

1209
01:15:00.779 --> 01:15:01.199
All right.

1210
01:15:01.260 --> 01:15:10.680
So here's this this guy, this red shirt here, although it's just a little red stripe because it's enterprise, and he's the one who gets killed by the gore.

1211
01:15:10.739 --> 01:15:12.899
He just has victims stamped on his forehead, doesn't he?

1212
01:15:13.020 --> 01:15:13.979
He does.

1213
01:15:14.039 --> 01:15:15.720
But look at the wonderful set.

1214
01:15:15.779 --> 01:15:17.819
It's a fantastic set.

1215
01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:19.560
Beautiful, yeah. awesome, isn't it?

1216
01:15:19.619 --> 01:15:21.600
You know, here we go.

1217
01:15:21.659 --> 01:15:22.500
Watch him going up the tube.

1218
01:15:22.560 --> 01:15:24.479
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1219
01:15:24.479 --> 01:15:25.140
His leg.

1220
01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:27.420
You know, when you sort of get an itch on your leg.

1221
01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:28.859
His leg just sort of wiggles like that.

1222
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:30.659
Just wiggle your legs about it.

1223
01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:31.800
With your legs.

1224
01:15:31.859 --> 01:15:38.159
I think they said to him, don't struggle too much on the harness or snap or something like that, you know. might be right.

1225
01:15:38.819 --> 01:15:44.220
But when I think of those people being dragged down corridors by the Gordon in strange new worlds.

1226
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:45.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1227
01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:51.539
Just leaving a giant trail of blood. blood. can't do that on enterprise.

1228
01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:53.939
That was such a brilliant episode, wasn't it?

1229
01:15:54.659 --> 01:15:56.460
Because I love this.

1230
01:15:56.520 --> 01:15:59.100
I just love them all hanging out on this TOS bridge.

1231
01:15:59.159 --> 01:16:00.840
I could just watch this.

1232
01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:06.239
Please don't go back to the usual bore against prize.

1233
01:16:06.300 --> 01:16:06.960
I keep saying it.

1234
01:16:07.319 --> 01:16:09.840
Yeah, well, really.

1235
01:16:09.899 --> 01:16:11.699
This scene, I thought, was really well done.

1236
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:18.300
As a as a one scene role for an actor, I think the actor in the blue makeup there does a great job.

1237
01:16:19.140 --> 01:16:20.640
Yeah.

1238
01:16:20.699 --> 01:16:24.420
Oh, look, Travis looks so camp, doesn't he?

1239
01:16:24.479 --> 01:16:30.899
Like he's all sweaty and he's singlet and his little, like his hair, like his wig that he's wearing and his earring and stuff.

1240
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:32.579
Oh, my God.

1241
01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:34.380
He's so pretty, isn't he?

1242
01:16:34.439 --> 01:16:35.399
Look at that.

1243
01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:36.779
Oh he's so sweated up as well.

1244
01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:37.979
Yeah, yeah.

1245
01:16:38.039 --> 01:16:40.079
Why would you not focus on that man?

1246
01:16:40.140 --> 01:16:41.340
Just wasted.

1247
01:16:41.399 --> 01:16:42.659
Why would you ignore him?

1248
01:16:42.720 --> 01:16:43.920
Disgraceful.

1249
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:46.020
It's so bad too.

1250
01:16:46.079 --> 01:16:48.060
Like, it's so upsettingly bad.

1251
01:16:48.119 --> 01:16:51.239
They waste the 2 non-white characters in this show.

1252
01:16:51.300 --> 01:16:58.079
In that, um, cool Brandon Braga's task interview that they did when they brought the whole trip together.

1253
01:16:58.140 --> 01:17:06.359
You know, he's so humble and he goes, yeah, I didn't care too much that I didn't get too much to do because I was just hanging out with these amazing actors and having a great time.

1254
01:17:06.420 --> 01:17:09.180
What I wanted him to say was, what the fuck?

1255
01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:14.039
Like you gave me 3 lines a season. you know.

1256
01:17:14.100 --> 01:17:14.760
Yeah, yeah.

1257
01:17:14.819 --> 01:17:17.939
And Jolene Blaylock got to play every bloody moment.

1258
01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:19.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1259
01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:23.100
I actually think this is a little bit unpleasant to watch.

1260
01:17:23.340 --> 01:17:25.800
Oh, see, I love all this.

1261
01:17:25.859 --> 01:17:28.619
Well, I'm happy to play blood coming out his mouth.

1262
01:17:28.680 --> 01:17:29.819
Yeah, no.

1263
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:32.520
When they put you in the tube and tort you, that's one thing.

1264
01:17:32.579 --> 01:17:33.899
They will do sausage.

1265
01:17:34.020 --> 01:17:37.619
It does look a bit like the blue man who was in the voice.

1266
01:17:38.460 --> 01:17:40.319
It's straight 2 hours episode, yeah.

1267
01:17:40.380 --> 01:17:43.979
He also looks a bit like the blue man in the Pal Moonlight.

1268
01:17:44.039 --> 01:17:44.460
Do you remember him?

1269
01:17:44.579 --> 01:17:46.260
Yeah.

1270
01:17:46.260 --> 01:17:51.119
I can't tell you how grateful I am to see you, captains, just go about Villa.

1271
01:17:51.180 --> 01:17:53.220
He was wonderful, poor guy.

1272
01:17:53.279 --> 01:17:54.119
He gets blowed up.

1273
01:17:54.239 --> 01:17:56.819
Off screen, though. offscreen.

1274
01:17:56.880 --> 01:17:57.479
Offscreen.

1275
01:17:57.539 --> 01:18:00.960
I'll be along to say, hello, says Garak.

1276
01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:11.279
Oh, look, Anthony's changed into, into his, um, into his, uh, TOS outfit there.

1277
01:18:11.340 --> 01:18:15.000
Why does everybody automatically look more hot in the TOS uniform?

1278
01:18:15.060 --> 01:18:16.380
Yeah, yeah, they're great.

1279
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:19.619
But can we not put Hoshi in in one?

1280
01:18:19.680 --> 01:18:21.779
Can't we see her in the miniskirt?

1281
01:18:21.840 --> 01:18:24.119
because they want to show off a midrift.

1282
01:18:24.180 --> 01:18:24.659
That the trouble.

1283
01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:26.039
Yeah, yeah.

1284
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:30.779
Yeah.

1285
01:18:31.319 --> 01:18:33.899
I'm just watching the pretty pictures now.

1286
01:18:33.899 --> 01:18:36.479
I know, I know, it's amazing, isn't it?

1287
01:18:36.539 --> 01:18:41.159
But there's Mayweather in the background, Mayweather, Merriweather.

1288
01:18:41.220 --> 01:18:43.859
Oh my god, there's the gone.

1289
01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:46.199
And in sort of silhouette as well, you know?

1290
01:18:46.260 --> 01:18:47.340
Yeah, it's good though.

1291
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:49.380
And it's not long enough for you.

1292
01:18:49.380 --> 01:18:50.939
It's kind of what he looks like.

1293
01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:52.380
So you're just like, no, no, no.

1294
01:18:52.439 --> 01:18:53.760
Turn around, turn the camera around.

1295
01:18:53.819 --> 01:18:54.359
I wanna see it.

1296
01:18:54.420 --> 01:18:56.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1297
01:18:56.699 --> 01:18:58.800
Yeah, well, sorry when they do that.

1298
01:18:58.859 --> 01:19:02.039
I think the bit where he struggles with archer and all of that.

1299
01:19:02.100 --> 01:19:04.739
I still think for the time it looks pretty impressive.

1300
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:06.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1301
01:19:06.060 --> 01:19:06.479
Yeah.

1302
01:19:07.439 --> 01:19:11.159
I know I keep going on about the line and I'm going to again.

1303
01:19:11.220 --> 01:19:18.539
But just remember those scenes in episode one on the bridge where it is that very flat lighting and there's no depth to the shots.

1304
01:19:18.659 --> 01:19:20.340
Just watch all these shots in this episode.

1305
01:19:20.399 --> 01:19:24.420
All the characters stand out because they're being lit so effectively.

1306
01:19:24.479 --> 01:19:30.060
So I think our archer, that's just his ambition, isn't it?

1307
01:19:30.180 --> 01:19:34.140
Because our archer represents for him, represents success.

1308
01:19:34.199 --> 01:19:43.380
He's successful, and our archer is constantly telling him to, you know, sees things and be impressive and stuff.

1309
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:46.260
So it's it's a little bit odd.

1310
01:19:46.319 --> 01:19:48.659
Like, I'm not sure that it properly works.

1311
01:19:48.720 --> 01:19:53.699
And surprisingly, seeing our archer is actually quite a relief.

1312
01:19:53.760 --> 01:19:54.420
Do you know what I mean?

1313
01:19:54.479 --> 01:20:03.779
Because this version of Archer is so much more of an asshole, even than our archer, who is a bit more relaxed. an impossibility.

1314
01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:04.859
There we are.

1315
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:18.119
Yeah, because he's such a focussing they could have done. would have been for him to have had a redemptive story where at the end he's like, I'm going to be a better person now I've read this. and you know, and he goes, instead, no.

1316
01:20:18.180 --> 01:20:19.500
He portrays everybody.

1317
01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:21.239
No, he's an absolute loser.

1318
01:20:21.239 --> 01:20:22.199
I'm going to be the emperor.

1319
01:20:22.319 --> 01:20:27.060
Yeah, I'm going to be the emperor and then he's dead and better people take over.

1320
01:20:27.119 --> 01:20:29.880
Please, I can read.

1321
01:20:29.939 --> 01:20:32.579
Where did he learn to fucking use a gun like that?

1322
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:34.380
That's the campus thing I've ever seen?

1323
01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:35.579
He's having fun.

1324
01:20:35.640 --> 01:20:37.199
He's having fun.

1325
01:20:37.380 --> 01:20:39.600
Again, I'm gonna say it.

1326
01:20:39.659 --> 01:20:42.300
Watch the framing, watch the camera movement.

1327
01:20:42.359 --> 01:20:45.960
There is some real effort going into this episode into how it looks.

1328
01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:46.680
Yeah.

1329
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:50.399
Yeah, they just want this to stand out a lot.

1330
01:20:50.460 --> 01:20:51.119
Come on, man.

1331
01:20:51.180 --> 01:20:52.140
I want to see the gourd.

1332
01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:53.100
Stop teasing me.

1333
01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:55.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on.

1334
01:20:55.199 --> 01:21:01.800
Oh here we go. here we go Oh, his claw goes down on the button when he talks.

1335
01:21:01.859 --> 01:21:02.520
Yeah, that's awesome.

1336
01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:07.020
That's really great Those guys get exploded.

1337
01:21:07.079 --> 01:21:08.880
Oh, does Reed get killed nearly.

1338
01:21:08.939 --> 01:21:09.659
No, that's right.

1339
01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:10.319
No.

1340
01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:14.699
It's left ambiguous because they wanted to bring it back for the 5th season Mirror Universe.

1341
01:21:14.699 --> 01:21:15.720
Okay.

1342
01:21:15.779 --> 01:21:17.159
So we're not too sure.

1343
01:21:17.220 --> 01:21:18.420
They're super callous about it.

1344
01:21:18.479 --> 01:21:25.079
Like, Archer could have looked over him. the captain just ignores him.

1345
01:21:25.140 --> 01:21:29.579
I mean, I'm wondering if, because he is sort of very obsequious to Archer.

1346
01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:34.140
I'm wondering if he's supposed to fancy him a little bit. looking for a gay reading anywhere in this.

1347
01:21:34.199 --> 01:21:37.319
Yeah, I just don't think there is any in this thing.

1348
01:21:37.560 --> 01:21:41.579
We're well and truly alpha in enterprise, aren't we?

1349
01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:42.180
Yeah.

1350
01:21:42.180 --> 01:21:45.000
Oh, that's...

1351
01:21:45.060 --> 01:21:47.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1352
01:21:47.819 --> 01:21:55.560
It's still not as good as the massive blood that they normally have in strangely worlds with the dawn, though.

1353
01:21:55.619 --> 01:21:59.699
If you sort of switch this on now, you could have sworn you were in an original series episode, couldn't you?

1354
01:22:00.300 --> 01:22:02.939
Maybe not now.

1355
01:22:03.180 --> 01:22:13.319
Yeah, yeah, it really looks like an original series episode, but those sort of plastic, you know, like mustard bottles stuck to the wall and stuff, you know.

1356
01:22:13.380 --> 01:22:16.260
But they're stepping over bodies, left, right, and centre.

1357
01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:21.000
Huge close up on Archer's face as they're going down the darkened corridor.

1358
01:22:21.060 --> 01:22:22.800
There's proper suspense in this.

1359
01:22:22.859 --> 01:22:30.239
But, I mean, that's the scene in in the Tholian Web where the sheep is full of dead bodies, you know.

1360
01:22:30.659 --> 01:22:32.819
Oh my god, here we go.

1361
01:22:32.880 --> 01:22:34.859
Yeah, I know that Gordon's around here somewhere.

1362
01:22:34.920 --> 01:22:36.239
Yeah, come on.

1363
01:22:36.300 --> 01:22:38.039
I mean, we love all of this.

1364
01:22:38.100 --> 01:22:39.359
We love go. there he is.

1365
01:22:40.319 --> 01:22:42.180
He's above you.

1366
01:22:42.779 --> 01:22:46.680
Why isn't he wearing a cocktail dress, like the original gone?

1367
01:22:46.739 --> 01:22:48.659
Why isn't he wearing something spangled?

1368
01:22:48.720 --> 01:22:51.479
There's no need to protect his modesty, this call.

1369
01:22:51.539 --> 01:22:53.520
He is saying something.

1370
01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:54.960
Yeah, yeah.

1371
01:22:55.020 --> 01:22:56.039
No, but he is wearing something.

1372
01:22:56.100 --> 01:22:59.760
He's just not wearing something quite as fabulous as the born in arena.

1373
01:23:02.340 --> 01:23:04.560
That's really terrible.

1374
01:23:05.340 --> 01:23:06.960
Come on.

1375
01:23:07.979 --> 01:23:10.500
Look at him punching it.

1376
01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:12.479
He has hold of him.

1377
01:23:12.539 --> 01:23:15.180
He should be able to just disembowel him in a second.

1378
01:23:15.300 --> 01:23:17.939
It's like it's in a completely different room.

1379
01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:22.619
That's because it is Look, he picks up that man.

1380
01:23:22.680 --> 01:23:23.699
Yep.

1381
01:23:23.760 --> 01:23:25.560
And they follow him against the wall.

1382
01:23:25.619 --> 01:23:27.479
They should bite his head off.

1383
01:23:27.539 --> 01:23:30.119
There, that shot where he turns around, though, is great.

1384
01:23:30.180 --> 01:23:31.439
Yeah that is pretty good.

1385
01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:33.239
And then POV shots.

1386
01:23:33.300 --> 01:23:33.960
Love it.

1387
01:23:34.020 --> 01:23:34.680
Yeah.

1388
01:23:34.739 --> 01:23:36.420
Cheaper POV shots.

1389
01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:39.420
You see the gravity on and squash him.

1390
01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:42.000
Yeah, he's got great hatting along the corridor.

1391
01:23:42.060 --> 01:23:42.899
Oh yeah.

1392
01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:50.760
Oh, see, he's not wearing the, he's wearing a dress, but it's not the Spangly dress that gone from.

1393
01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:52.979
They can't get the lighting, right?

1394
01:23:53.039 --> 01:23:54.960
They can't get the texture right yet.

1395
01:23:55.020 --> 01:23:55.739
Do you know what I mean?

1396
01:23:55.859 --> 01:23:56.460
That's the problem.

1397
01:23:56.520 --> 01:23:58.859
So it never really looks like part of the scene.

1398
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:01.560
But good on them for trying, I think.

1399
01:24:01.680 --> 01:24:02.640
Fabulous.

1400
01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:03.779
Oh, come on, yeah.

1401
01:24:03.840 --> 01:24:06.359
It's captured Archer, against Argor.

1402
01:24:06.420 --> 01:24:07.500
I know.

1403
01:24:07.500 --> 01:24:08.100
I know.

1404
01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:08.640
Absolutely.

1405
01:24:08.699 --> 01:24:09.600
It's terrific.

1406
01:24:09.659 --> 01:24:12.960
And then he just shoots the gun in the hand, which is pretty awesome.

1407
01:24:13.020 --> 01:24:18.119
Things weren't going to get better than that phone and web being spun in space. here we are.

1408
01:24:18.180 --> 01:24:19.140
Yeah.

1409
01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:21.960
Oh, glorious.

1410
01:24:22.079 --> 01:24:28.739
And it is like, it's like you said, it's total fan wank, but it is sort of tickling all the right areas, isn't it?

1411
01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:30.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1412
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:36.720
You know, you can't be a fan of Star Trek and not love the Folian Web and the Gorn being in the same... episode.

1413
01:24:36.779 --> 01:24:37.560
Absolutely.

1414
01:24:37.619 --> 01:24:41.460
If you're universe. you don't, there is something very wrong with you.

1415
01:24:41.699 --> 01:24:45.539
Oh, look, they're eating the space plaster scene, look.

1416
01:24:45.600 --> 01:24:46.859
Yeah, yeah.

1417
01:24:48.600 --> 01:24:51.539
That always looks so grim, doesn't it?

1418
01:24:51.600 --> 01:24:53.220
Yeah, doesn't it terrible?

1419
01:24:53.279 --> 01:24:53.939
Blue beers.

1420
01:24:53.939 --> 01:24:54.659
There's some fruit there.

1421
01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:56.819
I think he's got some mango on his plate.

1422
01:24:57.359 --> 01:25:07.739
I love this line where in the mirror universe, Shakespeare is really grim and everyone dies. which I think is really great.

1423
01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:10.500
It's equally grim, equally grim.

1424
01:25:10.560 --> 01:25:25.199
And so that does break the idea that that scene, that 1st contact is where the divergence happens because he's been reading literature from earlier, which is different in the 2 universes.

1425
01:25:25.800 --> 01:25:31.140
Billingsley played this as he learned as she says that they're equal.

1426
01:25:31.199 --> 01:25:36.119
He doesn't react, but his eyes move as if to say he's taking it in.

1427
01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:40.079
Yes, yeah.

1428
01:25:40.140 --> 01:25:44.220
And he's kind of thinking of along the captain's lines, isn't he?

1429
01:25:44.279 --> 01:25:45.359
Do you know what I mean?

1430
01:25:45.420 --> 01:25:48.720
He saying if I was the captain, I'd restrict knowledge of that database.

1431
01:25:48.779 --> 01:25:54.060
As if that's in his interest, which, of course, it isn't, you know, who's attacking us?

1432
01:25:54.119 --> 01:25:54.899
All Vulcans and stuff.

1433
01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:56.520
Oh, what was I in his head?

1434
01:25:56.579 --> 01:25:57.300
Did you see that?

1435
01:25:57.359 --> 01:25:58.199
Shrapnel in his head.

1436
01:25:58.260 --> 01:25:59.880
An outdoor rim?

1437
01:26:00.060 --> 01:26:01.979
Oh, here he is.

1438
01:26:02.039 --> 01:26:03.960
Captain, what's his fella's name?

1439
01:26:04.020 --> 01:26:10.020
Soval. but the Vulcan Saval, who is the captain.

1440
01:26:10.079 --> 01:26:11.579
Enterprise, isn't he?

1441
01:26:11.640 --> 01:26:14.460
Uh, no.

1442
01:26:14.520 --> 01:26:18.840
So, isn't this, so, I can't remember.

1443
01:26:18.899 --> 01:26:21.840
I think they're blowing the shit out of that ship.

1444
01:26:21.899 --> 01:26:23.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1445
01:26:23.399 --> 01:26:24.539
It's really great, isn't it?

1446
01:26:24.600 --> 01:26:26.819
we ever wanted from your enterprise.

1447
01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:33.359
So this is the ISS Avenger is the name of this show.

1448
01:26:33.479 --> 01:26:34.199
Avenger.

1449
01:26:34.260 --> 01:26:34.920
Yeah.

1450
01:26:34.979 --> 01:26:42.359
Notice that Soval, of course, has a goatee because Spock has a goatee in Mirror, Mirror.

1451
01:26:42.420 --> 01:26:48.539
So obviously our Vulcan has to have a, has to have a goatee here as well.

1452
01:26:48.600 --> 01:26:51.659
You know why I remember that fella, the captain.

1453
01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:53.640
It's not because he's a regular enterprise.

1454
01:26:53.699 --> 01:26:57.720
He's the guy who comes to the station to put Dax on trial in series one.

1455
01:26:57.779 --> 01:26:59.159
Oh, really?

1456
01:26:59.220 --> 01:27:02.460
It's his father that he accuses Dax of murdering.

1457
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:03.060
Yeah.

1458
01:27:03.119 --> 01:27:07.380
And he's one of those actors that just has lots of different roles in Star Trek.

1459
01:27:07.439 --> 01:27:08.819
Right, right.

1460
01:27:10.560 --> 01:27:16.079
I want to find the other rebels where I feel like we're in Star Wars territory now.

1461
01:27:16.380 --> 01:27:33.960
But there is something, I do think, certainly in, um, through the Looking Glass, in DS9 series 3, where they're talking about the rebel alliance, that there is something sort of Star Wars-y that started to creep into those alternative universe episodes.

1462
01:27:34.020 --> 01:27:35.340
Yeah.

1463
01:27:35.399 --> 01:27:46.920
Yeah, so, so, like, that's what I was kind of wondering about what I was asking you about earlier, like kind of off Mike, which is that...

1464
01:27:48.600 --> 01:28:19.199
You know, the thing about the Federation, that, like, this is the opposite of the Federation, and you, we, we had that scene earlier where, um, where Archer scoffs at the idea that it's a federation that's multiracial and based upon, um, you know, alliances and equality and stuff because the Terran, uh, empire is supremacist and it's human supremacist, you know, and it, it's a little bit surprising in episode one how many aliens we see on board the ship.

1465
01:28:19.319 --> 01:28:22.920
But here he puts the aliens off the ship, remember?

1466
01:28:22.979 --> 01:28:29.279
And there's one good alien as far as he's concerned, and that's flocks, and he wants to put everyone else off the ship.

1467
01:28:29.340 --> 01:28:30.000
Yeah.

1468
01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:30.539
Yeah.

1469
01:28:31.319 --> 01:28:35.939
Yeah, Archer looks so much more chill, doesn't he?

1470
01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:40.619
People are saying that he's camp in this, that...

1471
01:28:40.619 --> 01:28:42.539
The dark archer.

1472
01:28:42.600 --> 01:28:44.039
But I don't think he's camp.

1473
01:28:44.100 --> 01:28:45.779
He's not scenery chewing.

1474
01:28:45.840 --> 01:28:48.119
He's just an angry asshole.

1475
01:28:48.180 --> 01:28:49.979
He's an angry loser, you know.

1476
01:28:50.039 --> 01:28:53.939
There was just something about him. just screamed pathetic in every scene.

1477
01:28:54.000 --> 01:29:00.359
And I think that's that's quite hard because Scott Bacula. is an effortlessly sort of charismatic bloke.

1478
01:29:00.420 --> 01:29:02.819
So he has to work hard to seem pathetic.

1479
01:29:03.420 --> 01:29:13.560
Yeah, and he said that line earlier where we've got these new phases from the 22nd century and he and they can completely disintegrate someone.

1480
01:29:13.619 --> 01:29:16.859
So he says, I want to try that.

1481
01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:18.420
And so he tries it on the captain.

1482
01:29:18.600 --> 01:29:20.399
You know what it is?

1483
01:29:20.460 --> 01:29:26.939
It's, it's the sort of, um, is, is basically stressing that he's got ideas above his station.

1484
01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:28.619
That's the sort of performance he's playing.

1485
01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:33.899
He wants to be this and he's only capable of this, but he's going to go for it anyway.

1486
01:29:33.960 --> 01:29:40.560
And so that's why he's so kind of, like, put himself in a position of authority here.

1487
01:29:40.619 --> 01:29:44.159
He's walking above the walkway looking down at his entire crew.

1488
01:29:44.220 --> 01:29:45.960
Look at Jolene.

1489
01:29:46.020 --> 01:29:48.899
She's wearing she's wearing the she's wearing a miniskirt.

1490
01:29:49.020 --> 01:29:50.939
Oh, sexy.

1491
01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:54.359
Yeah, I've been a soldier for my life.

1492
01:29:54.420 --> 01:29:55.680
Yeah, yeah, loser.

1493
01:29:55.739 --> 01:29:56.699
You'll always be a soldier.

1494
01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:57.960
You'll never be a commander.

1495
01:29:58.020 --> 01:30:06.840
But, I mean, that's what's so great, is that that's why he's so kind of destroyed by seeing Archer's file because the other archer.

1496
01:30:06.899 --> 01:30:07.680
It's proper.

1497
01:30:07.739 --> 01:30:08.760
You know what really sells it?

1498
01:30:08.819 --> 01:30:11.039
Is that just for men hair dye he's got on?

1499
01:30:11.159 --> 01:30:15.960
Somebody who's got, yeah, got gray and really put in a terrible cup.

1500
01:30:16.020 --> 01:30:17.579
I have to try.

1501
01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:18.960
He can't accept it.

1502
01:30:19.020 --> 01:30:22.260
He bought some supermarket hair tie.

1503
01:30:25.319 --> 01:30:28.260
He doesn't realise that going gray is very sexy.

1504
01:30:29.279 --> 01:30:38.520
Can I just say, um, Anthony Montgomery in the background looking at, um, uh, it's actually Montgomery plays.

1505
01:30:38.579 --> 01:30:40.020
Yeah, yeah, Mayweather, yeah.

1506
01:30:40.079 --> 01:30:41.220
Pretty. yeah, yeah, yeah.

1507
01:30:41.279 --> 01:30:45.899
Looking with contempt at Archer, whose bodyguard he is.

1508
01:30:46.079 --> 01:30:47.880
I forgot.

1509
01:30:47.880 --> 01:30:48.420
Yeah, look at her.

1510
01:30:48.479 --> 01:30:48.899
Look at this.

1511
01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:52.020
I thought he had a bigger role in this, actually.

1512
01:30:52.079 --> 01:30:56.699
I think it's just because he's prominent in a few scenes that it feels like he's got a big role.

1513
01:30:56.760 --> 01:30:58.260
Yeah, yeah, he doesn't really.

1514
01:30:58.319 --> 01:31:00.779
They just let him be in front of the camera a bit.

1515
01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:02.340
There is one wonderful moment.

1516
01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:04.260
I think it's towards the end of this episode.

1517
01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:09.779
You know, where that thing, that bit of technology that comes out of the console on the bridge that you look through.

1518
01:31:09.840 --> 01:31:14.399
Yeah, it gets a big long shot looking through that and I was like, well, there we go.

1519
01:31:14.460 --> 01:31:15.359
He's doing something.

1520
01:31:15.840 --> 01:31:16.800
Good for him.

1521
01:31:16.859 --> 01:31:18.539
You patronising kit.

1522
01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:21.539
That's all he gets.

1523
01:31:21.659 --> 01:31:23.699
At least he's hanging out with his friends.

1524
01:31:23.699 --> 01:31:25.020
Yeah, that's true.

1525
01:31:25.140 --> 01:31:26.279
That is true.

1526
01:31:26.399 --> 01:31:28.199
Oh, here we go.

1527
01:31:28.260 --> 01:31:28.439
Right.

1528
01:31:28.500 --> 01:31:30.060
She's trying to incite rebellion now.

1529
01:31:30.119 --> 01:31:31.260
Yeah.

1530
01:31:31.319 --> 01:31:35.100
She's really great in this scene, I have to say, she's awesome.

1531
01:31:35.159 --> 01:31:36.779
She's so animated.

1532
01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:41.699
I could just imagine them all getting these scripts and going...

1533
01:31:41.760 --> 01:31:42.600
What's this?

1534
01:31:42.659 --> 01:31:43.680
these characters with life?

1535
01:31:43.739 --> 01:31:44.579
Let's go.

1536
01:31:46.500 --> 01:31:48.840
Oh, yi, yi.

1537
01:31:48.899 --> 01:31:51.060
I quite like her hair too.

1538
01:31:51.119 --> 01:31:51.899
Do you know what I mean?

1539
01:31:51.960 --> 01:31:58.800
I know what sort of blonde girl hair is sort of super boring and kind of mid, but I think it's, he's an insane idea.

1540
01:31:58.859 --> 01:32:03.899
Do you think that a series could be sustained in the Mirror Universe?

1541
01:32:03.960 --> 01:32:04.619
No.

1542
01:32:04.680 --> 01:32:06.180
Because what would it be about?

1543
01:32:06.300 --> 01:32:07.500
Do you know what I mean?

1544
01:32:07.560 --> 01:32:08.340
Like, what's it about?

1545
01:32:09.539 --> 01:32:12.119
I suppose it would be this, wouldn't it?

1546
01:32:12.180 --> 01:32:17.340
It would be trying to regain our humanity, create a federation in this terrible place.

1547
01:32:17.399 --> 01:32:18.840
That's kind of boring, though.

1548
01:32:18.899 --> 01:32:29.579
I think, you know, like, I think that this works because it gives our actors fun new things to do, and that's particularly waste their excuse.

1549
01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:37.319
If they inadvertently say something thoughtful about Star Trek, then happy days, but it's actually, let's just let them have a laugh.

1550
01:32:37.439 --> 01:32:37.979
Oh, yeah.

1551
01:32:37.979 --> 01:32:44.880
I mean, like, I think I think in discovery is where it has the most clear political purpose.

1552
01:32:44.939 --> 01:32:58.380
Mirror, mirror, you know, like mirror, mirror is what if Star Trek had been like a cheesy space opera and Star Trek, all the stuff on DS9 is, let's put Nana Visitor in some leather and...

1553
01:32:58.380 --> 01:33:00.960
This scene here, which is all in silhouette, right?

1554
01:33:01.020 --> 01:33:07.619
You've got Linda, Linda Park and Scott Bacula, and they eventually end up sort of fucking on the bed.

1555
01:33:07.680 --> 01:33:07.920
Yeah.

1556
01:33:08.039 --> 01:33:10.319
It's quite explicit.

1557
01:33:10.380 --> 01:33:13.319
It's sexy in a way this show never is.

1558
01:33:13.380 --> 01:33:16.380
But look at what she's talk- look at what he's talking about.

1559
01:33:16.439 --> 01:33:23.939
He's saying, we're going to put all the aliens off the ship, that it's only going to be human beings on the ship.

1560
01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:27.779
Um, and then she says...

1561
01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:29.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1562
01:33:29.100 --> 01:33:30.899
But he's a good alien.

1563
01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:33.359
You know, that's the thing supremacist.

1564
01:33:33.359 --> 01:33:33.960
That's the thing.

1565
01:33:34.079 --> 01:33:35.100
Yeah, you know, yeah.

1566
01:33:35.159 --> 01:33:37.979
It's possible to be an acceptable.

1567
01:33:38.039 --> 01:33:39.479
Yeah, I've got nothing against flocks.

1568
01:33:39.539 --> 01:33:41.640
You know, it's possible to a mansion.

1569
01:33:41.760 --> 01:33:45.899
You just can't see what she's doing to him, but, you know, my imagination is going crazy.

1570
01:33:46.619 --> 01:33:49.739
Yeah, they've got proper chemistry.

1571
01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:50.819
I'm like Jesus, who knew?

1572
01:33:50.939 --> 01:33:52.319
Yeah, yeah.

1573
01:33:52.380 --> 01:33:57.180
Well, no, we have talked a bit about romance in 90s trek lately.

1574
01:33:57.239 --> 01:33:58.859
This is quite sexy.

1575
01:33:58.979 --> 01:34:00.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1576
01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:00.720
Yeah.

1577
01:34:00.899 --> 01:34:03.840
Never been the consort of an emperor before.

1578
01:34:03.899 --> 01:34:06.720
And I don't plan to be the consort of an emperor.

1579
01:34:07.079 --> 01:34:10.020
I think they might actually be fucking right now.

1580
01:34:10.319 --> 01:34:14.279
Like, if you wanted to read that into that scene, then...

1581
01:34:14.279 --> 01:34:18.720
No, this is, they go discreetly out of shot, you know, the fuck.

1582
01:34:18.779 --> 01:34:24.180
I am so on board with Jolene wearing that Starfleet outfit there.

1583
01:34:24.239 --> 01:34:29.640
That's so much more fun and can than that couple things she's been wearing.

1584
01:34:29.699 --> 01:34:31.920
Look at those coloured buttons.

1585
01:34:32.039 --> 01:34:34.199
And I love those cars.

1586
01:34:34.199 --> 01:34:37.380
They insert in.

1587
01:34:37.439 --> 01:34:39.539
And the plaster scene food.

1588
01:34:39.600 --> 01:34:41.460
We just want to watch the original series.

1589
01:34:44.880 --> 01:34:49.380
Enterprise, stop reminding us how much better things were back in the day.

1590
01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:50.100
That's right.

1591
01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:51.000
That's right.

1592
01:34:51.060 --> 01:34:55.560
Doesn't Travis look so hot in the red uniform, too.

1593
01:34:55.619 --> 01:34:56.640
He just looks great.

1594
01:34:56.699 --> 01:35:02.640
But I'll tell you the difference is, like, you see, you see the lighting at the back of the set there with the gridding on the wall.

1595
01:35:02.699 --> 01:35:06.600
It's got a depth to it that the original series didn't have, you know?

1596
01:35:06.659 --> 01:35:07.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1597
01:35:07.619 --> 01:35:09.479
It's like the best of both worlds.

1598
01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:12.960
Yeah, so who's this guy?

1599
01:35:13.260 --> 01:35:16.859
He's demanding unconditional surrender.

1600
01:35:16.920 --> 01:35:18.600
Yeah, I don't know.

1601
01:35:18.659 --> 01:35:23.039
But then it becomes, doesn't it, a battle between the 2 of them and I love all of this stuff.

1602
01:35:23.579 --> 01:35:31.680
And then flocks is trying to sabotage one ship and they're trying to get the other hand on the other and they're throwing the shit out of each other.

1603
01:35:31.739 --> 01:35:32.760
Oh, it's just great.

1604
01:35:33.960 --> 01:35:36.659
And so this is him, isn't it?

1605
01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:39.539
It's him, you know, how far are we?

1606
01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:49.680
We're, you know, 10 minutes from the end and he's very, very close to his sort of absolute final victory and he's going to blow the shit out of earth and he's there.

1607
01:35:49.739 --> 01:35:51.539
He's saying, I'm going to destroy your cities.

1608
01:35:51.600 --> 01:35:53.760
You know, until you surrender to me.

1609
01:35:53.819 --> 01:35:54.479
It's so great.

1610
01:35:54.539 --> 01:35:57.779
Oh my god, I've got to stop talking about the lion.

1611
01:35:57.840 --> 01:35:59.279
That corridor looks so great.

1612
01:35:59.340 --> 01:36:04.260
I mean, only in a Star Trek podcast, because I probably say that corridor looks great.

1613
01:36:04.859 --> 01:36:08.279
So they don't do the colour gels, do they?

1614
01:36:08.340 --> 01:36:13.800
But there's light spilling on the thing, you know, they have light spilling on the, here we are.

1615
01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:14.760
So what are you doing here?

1616
01:36:14.819 --> 01:36:15.779
It's really moody.

1617
01:36:15.840 --> 01:36:17.819
Oh, yes, yeah.

1618
01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:20.340
We're going to sabotage the fire.

1619
01:36:20.399 --> 01:36:21.840
Because he trusts flocks.

1620
01:36:21.899 --> 01:36:25.739
He's the only one that could get in there and sabotage without arousing suspicion.

1621
01:36:27.180 --> 01:36:27.479
Yeah.

1622
01:36:27.539 --> 01:36:29.939
And Flock's still, he can't quite...

1623
01:36:29.939 --> 01:36:32.819
No, no, break out of his chase, can he?

1624
01:36:32.880 --> 01:36:33.600
Yeah, exactly.

1625
01:36:33.659 --> 01:36:35.460
So what makes him do it?

1626
01:36:35.520 --> 01:36:38.699
Do we have, do we have sort of, it just makes a decision.

1627
01:36:39.239 --> 01:36:46.140
No, doesn't she say that if Archer fails?

1628
01:36:46.199 --> 01:36:53.100
If Archer fails to kill the emperor, then he will be tried. and execute.

1629
01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:54.300
We would all be executed.

1630
01:36:54.359 --> 01:36:54.899
Yeah, yeah.

1631
01:36:54.960 --> 01:36:55.319
Yeah.

1632
01:36:55.380 --> 01:36:56.340
And so...

1633
01:36:56.340 --> 01:36:58.619
And what was the other one?

1634
01:36:58.680 --> 01:37:00.000
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right.

1635
01:37:00.060 --> 01:37:01.979
And he'll get as many wives as he likes.

1636
01:37:02.039 --> 01:37:04.800
He'll get as many women as he likes if he saves the emperor's life.

1637
01:37:04.859 --> 01:37:07.859
He'll be able to ask the emperor.

1638
01:37:07.859 --> 01:37:08.880
The facility of your own.

1639
01:37:08.880 --> 01:37:09.659
No, no.

1640
01:37:09.659 --> 01:37:12.239
Conduct experiments as you see fit.

1641
01:37:12.300 --> 01:37:15.300
You can carve up as many animals as you like.

1642
01:37:15.420 --> 01:37:17.640
And plus, lots of females.

1643
01:37:17.699 --> 01:37:19.020
And that's what he reacts to.

1644
01:37:19.079 --> 01:37:20.699
Look, even his tongue comes out.

1645
01:37:20.760 --> 01:37:28.500
Females, you can have as many concubines as you like. and we know that he's Polly, so he's like, oh, well, in that case.

1646
01:37:28.560 --> 01:37:31.680
Torturing animals and women, you say.

1647
01:37:31.739 --> 01:37:32.939
Oh, yes.

1648
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:42.000
Well, because our flocks is just lovely, and I have no doubt that he has no difficulty attracting people.

1649
01:37:42.060 --> 01:37:44.340
Swinger uncle, isn't he?

1650
01:37:44.579 --> 01:37:47.699
Look at her swinging her hips there.

1651
01:37:47.760 --> 01:37:49.439
Oh, the guns are out now.

1652
01:37:49.439 --> 01:37:50.279
Confident as anything.

1653
01:37:50.340 --> 01:37:56.699
My God, can I just say this fight in a minute between Tapal and good grief, what's her name?

1654
01:37:56.760 --> 01:37:57.600
Hoshi.

1655
01:37:57.659 --> 01:37:58.439
Hoshi?

1656
01:37:58.500 --> 01:37:59.939
It's so great.

1657
01:38:00.000 --> 01:38:00.960
It's vicious.

1658
01:38:01.020 --> 01:38:04.319
I love watching 2 women going at it like that.

1659
01:38:05.279 --> 01:38:09.960
Look at this. punches him in her face, grabs the gun.

1660
01:38:10.020 --> 01:38:11.159
Yep, yep.

1661
01:38:11.220 --> 01:38:15.000
She's got the knife out. green blood smear across her face.

1662
01:38:15.060 --> 01:38:16.739
Yeah, that's pretty good too.

1663
01:38:16.800 --> 01:38:19.680
And now look. look how excited she is.

1664
01:38:19.739 --> 01:38:21.539
Holy shit.

1665
01:38:21.539 --> 01:38:22.800
The park is so good.

1666
01:38:22.920 --> 01:38:24.420
They're in their teeth, aren't they?

1667
01:38:24.539 --> 01:38:26.880
Yeah, when they're up against the wall.

1668
01:38:26.939 --> 01:38:30.119
These carriages are so fucking boring normally.

1669
01:38:30.180 --> 01:38:30.779
What's going?

1670
01:38:31.079 --> 01:38:33.000
Yeah, that's right.

1671
01:38:33.060 --> 01:38:49.260
That's right So she's, she says something cruel to Hoshi about how she's hopping from bed to bed and then, and then Hoshi says, yeah, um, Tucker told me that I should give you some tips because you're really shitting bed, which I thought was okay.

1672
01:38:49.439 --> 01:38:52.920
That something did stand out for me in that scene, no.

1673
01:38:52.979 --> 01:38:57.420
And that is it's only in the alternative universe that they could possibly have dialogue like that, right?

1674
01:38:57.659 --> 01:39:01.380
this show in this very boring show.

1675
01:39:01.560 --> 01:39:08.220
Whereas, come to us 9 series 7, Wharf was calling Ezra, Dax are slut in every other episode.

1676
01:39:09.479 --> 01:39:12.180
Say, look at Ryan's a bag.

1677
01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:17.819
Like Enterprise brings Orion's back to Star Trek, which was a thing that we should always have had.

1678
01:39:18.180 --> 01:39:23.399
There was a shot of the manacles there, but I think it was just an excuse to get another shot.

1679
01:39:24.119 --> 01:39:24.720
Another.

1680
01:39:24.779 --> 01:39:25.439
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1681
01:39:25.500 --> 01:39:25.979
Yeah.

1682
01:39:26.159 --> 01:39:30.600
They're not quite out of that exploiting the ladies phase.

1683
01:39:30.600 --> 01:39:31.560
No, no.

1684
01:39:31.619 --> 01:39:33.359
They never break out of it.

1685
01:39:33.420 --> 01:39:34.680
No, no.

1686
01:39:34.739 --> 01:39:39.600
And they don't do it when the Mirror Universe comes back in Discovery Series one.

1687
01:39:39.659 --> 01:39:41.159
No.

1688
01:39:41.220 --> 01:39:45.180
I mean, Emperor Giorgio's head to toe in chiffon, for goodness sakes.

1689
01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:47.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah, looking fabulous.

1690
01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:48.479
Like, looking incredible.

1691
01:39:48.539 --> 01:39:49.920
Kicking people in the head.

1692
01:39:49.979 --> 01:39:51.060
You know what I mean?

1693
01:39:51.119 --> 01:39:55.619
I saw someone sword in one hand, a gun in the other. and she's got more frills.

1694
01:39:55.979 --> 01:39:58.500
She's got an opera singer.

1695
01:39:58.560 --> 01:39:59.939
She looks fabulous.

1696
01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:02.460
Oh, dear.

1697
01:40:04.020 --> 01:40:07.319
Oh, yeah, this doesn't traumic module, is it?

1698
01:40:07.319 --> 01:40:12.060
So Geotronic, like there are Duotronic computers in original Star Trek.

1699
01:40:12.119 --> 01:40:14.520
I think that's an original Star Trek reference.

1700
01:40:14.579 --> 01:40:19.020
And so he removes the power, doesn't he?

1701
01:40:19.079 --> 01:40:22.859
Like, he disengages the power, but then it doesn't work.

1702
01:40:22.920 --> 01:40:24.180
Trip comes and puts it all back.

1703
01:40:24.300 --> 01:40:25.619
Oh, I'm so sad.

1704
01:40:25.680 --> 01:40:26.760
There's only 6 minutes left.

1705
01:40:26.819 --> 01:40:28.020
Yeah, yeah.

1706
01:40:28.020 --> 01:40:29.460
And it's all going down at the moment.

1707
01:40:32.159 --> 01:40:35.579
This is like this battle in a minute, this space.

1708
01:40:35.640 --> 01:40:37.199
Oh look at Mayweather.

1709
01:40:37.260 --> 01:40:39.960
He's bulging out costume, isn't he?

1710
01:40:40.020 --> 01:40:40.920
he really is.

1711
01:40:40.979 --> 01:40:42.420
It's really working for him.

1712
01:40:42.479 --> 01:40:44.640
Oh, God, Trenier looks somewhat less attractive.

1713
01:40:44.699 --> 01:40:48.000
Yeah, we are getting his best side there.

1714
01:40:48.060 --> 01:40:48.720
Oh no, there we go.

1715
01:40:50.939 --> 01:40:53.819
Yeah, it is a pike thing, isn't it?

1716
01:40:53.880 --> 01:40:56.699
It's a very definite reference to Pike.

1717
01:40:57.180 --> 01:41:02.579
Come on, start the, oh, take a team aboard the Avenger. provide every alien on that ship.

1718
01:41:02.640 --> 01:41:03.119
There we go.

1719
01:41:03.180 --> 01:41:04.619
Yep, yep.

1720
01:41:04.680 --> 01:41:05.520
Yeah.

1721
01:41:05.579 --> 01:41:06.899
So something's gonna happen.

1722
01:41:06.960 --> 01:41:14.279
And um, Hoshi is determined to have Tapole killed now for having the nerve of uh, does she get murdered?

1723
01:41:14.340 --> 01:41:15.060
fighting her.

1724
01:41:15.180 --> 01:41:18.180
No, we don't see it, do we?

1725
01:41:18.239 --> 01:41:21.119
We can assume that's the case though after the last scene.

1726
01:41:21.899 --> 01:41:23.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1727
01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:31.380
But like you said, if they imagined a series 5 and they wanted to do a sequel, they can't have her killed on camera.

1728
01:41:34.439 --> 01:41:36.359
There we go. shit versus shit.

1729
01:41:36.420 --> 01:41:41.100
Like they, they have, they have poured a lot of money into this 2 part, haven't they?

1730
01:41:41.159 --> 01:41:48.300
We've had, you know, hand-hand fights, CGI monsters, a ton of makeup, lots of different aliens, new sets.

1731
01:41:48.420 --> 01:41:49.680
Yeah, yeah.

1732
01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:51.659
They've really gone to town.

1733
01:41:52.319 --> 01:41:54.000
Good on them.

1734
01:41:54.060 --> 01:41:56.100
Good on them for doing that in this bit of fluff.

1735
01:41:56.159 --> 01:41:57.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1736
01:41:57.060 --> 01:41:58.439
Well, at the end, at the end.

1737
01:41:58.500 --> 01:41:59.039
Why not?

1738
01:41:59.100 --> 01:41:59.939
Let's go crazy.

1739
01:42:00.000 --> 01:42:05.460
But what I really just thought was like, let's do lots of Star Trek shit, this is our last chance.

1740
01:42:05.520 --> 01:42:08.460
So let's make it a Star Trek as we possibly can.

1741
01:42:08.520 --> 01:42:09.720
You know what, right?

1742
01:42:09.779 --> 01:42:11.760
They're literally blowing the shit out of these sets now.

1743
01:42:11.819 --> 01:42:14.100
Every time it happens, your face lights up.

1744
01:42:14.159 --> 01:42:20.520
I didn't think you could look at any more beautiful than you usually do. every time there's an explosion, here we are.

1745
01:42:20.939 --> 01:42:24.239
Yes, there, there, Connor's putting them all back.

1746
01:42:24.300 --> 01:42:28.079
Lots of exciting thing trying to shove rubber tubes into...

1747
01:42:28.079 --> 01:42:30.420
They're fluorescent, they're fluorescent lights.

1748
01:42:30.479 --> 01:42:32.220
He's putting fluorescent lights back in.

1749
01:42:32.579 --> 01:42:34.500
Shit versus shit.

1750
01:42:34.560 --> 01:42:36.420
And do you know what was really exciting about this battle?

1751
01:42:36.479 --> 01:42:38.579
Because this is the alternative universe?

1752
01:42:38.640 --> 01:42:40.079
Because all bets are off.

1753
01:42:40.140 --> 01:42:41.159
Anything could happen.

1754
01:42:41.220 --> 01:42:42.300
I didn't know.

1755
01:42:42.300 --> 01:42:46.260
Enterprises already been destroyed. always know Enterprise is going to win, don't you?

1756
01:42:46.319 --> 01:42:47.640
Whereas in this, I didn't have a clue.

1757
01:42:47.699 --> 01:42:53.100
So I was like, okay, so is this going to be, are they going to kill off all of the alternative regulars?

1758
01:42:53.159 --> 01:42:55.920
No, but we are going to kill Sauval though.

1759
01:42:55.979 --> 01:42:57.600
Oh, look, it's great.

1760
01:42:57.659 --> 01:43:01.079
We're blasting the hell out of those enterprise sets again.

1761
01:43:01.140 --> 01:43:04.020
Again, yeah, we blow up the Enterprise twice.

1762
01:43:04.079 --> 01:43:07.979
I genuinely think they did wait till the end of the season to shoot this, you know.

1763
01:43:08.039 --> 01:43:09.359
Well, we don't need these sets anymore.

1764
01:43:09.420 --> 01:43:10.380
Go to town.

1765
01:43:10.800 --> 01:43:14.399
Oh my god. saw some rocks on the floor.

1766
01:43:14.460 --> 01:43:16.859
There are rocks on the floor.

1767
01:43:16.920 --> 01:43:17.460
Absolutely.

1768
01:43:17.699 --> 01:43:19.260
There we go.

1769
01:43:19.319 --> 01:43:21.600
Oh, that blows up getting prop up.

1770
01:43:21.659 --> 01:43:25.619
And then in exactly the same time, Archer has an extreme orgasm.

1771
01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:26.819
Did you notice them?

1772
01:43:26.880 --> 01:43:27.239
right.

1773
01:43:27.300 --> 01:43:29.819
They can only really do it in metaphor win.

1774
01:43:29.880 --> 01:43:31.020
No, he's trekk.

1775
01:43:31.079 --> 01:43:31.439
Yes.

1776
01:43:31.500 --> 01:43:32.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1777
01:43:32.640 --> 01:43:34.920
Not a very subtle metaphor, but there you go.

1778
01:43:34.979 --> 01:43:36.180
He really is quite sweaty.

1779
01:43:36.239 --> 01:43:37.680
They both are.

1780
01:43:37.739 --> 01:43:43.680
And Hoshi has been pouring drinks quite a bit throughout this two-parter.

1781
01:43:43.680 --> 01:43:45.420
Yeah.

1782
01:43:45.479 --> 01:43:50.039
So how do you see him a bubbly now is not unusual.

1783
01:43:50.159 --> 01:44:04.199
Actually, the bit that I think is really funny that made me twig that was poison is her reaction when he pours it on himself and it's almost like you watch what she does because he pours the wine on his face.

1784
01:44:04.260 --> 01:44:05.640
Like he drinks some of the wine.

1785
01:44:05.699 --> 01:44:13.199
She's, then he pours it on himself and she reacts as if it's like, oh, I hope none of her got on me, you know?

1786
01:44:13.680 --> 01:44:19.380
But that's like the last pathetic act he did, just literally pouring it all over his body.

1787
01:44:19.439 --> 01:44:21.060
Yeah, yeah, yeah. there he goes.

1788
01:44:21.119 --> 01:44:22.260
What a twat.

1789
01:44:22.319 --> 01:44:23.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1790
01:44:23.760 --> 01:44:24.899
Yeah.

1791
01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:25.800
Look, yeah.

1792
01:44:28.260 --> 01:44:30.060
I love it, love.

1793
01:44:30.119 --> 01:44:31.800
Because he's going to be dead.

1794
01:44:31.859 --> 01:44:33.840
She still has a little sip.

1795
01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:34.680
She's so cool.

1796
01:44:34.739 --> 01:44:37.199
She's like, I'm going to drink some of this champagne, you know?

1797
01:44:38.220 --> 01:44:41.520
And then hot Mayweather walks in in a second.

1798
01:44:41.579 --> 01:44:42.539
Yeah.

1799
01:44:42.600 --> 01:44:43.680
There he goes.

1800
01:44:44.159 --> 01:44:49.079
Before he dies, she lets him see her kissing Mayweather.

1801
01:44:49.140 --> 01:44:49.739
Yeah.

1802
01:44:49.739 --> 01:44:54.899
You're pathetic, and look at this hunk I've got.

1803
01:44:54.960 --> 01:44:56.399
Here's my hot boyfriend.

1804
01:44:57.060 --> 01:45:02.640
I don't I don't think your chances are very high on survival, frankly, if you're gonna...

1805
01:45:02.640 --> 01:45:03.600
I don't know.

1806
01:45:03.659 --> 01:45:05.340
Remember, she's at the top now.

1807
01:45:05.399 --> 01:45:08.520
She doesn't have to knife her way any further up and he is pretty.

1808
01:45:08.579 --> 01:45:10.979
I mean, I think if I was emperor.

1809
01:45:11.039 --> 01:45:12.300
I would keep him around.

1810
01:45:12.420 --> 01:45:17.039
Love this last scene where she walks in and says on the emperor.

1811
01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:19.439
Emperor Sato.

1812
01:45:19.500 --> 01:45:21.659
It's such a girl.

1813
01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:22.979
Look at this.

1814
01:45:23.340 --> 01:45:25.859
No wonder she loved this episode.

1815
01:45:25.920 --> 01:45:27.300
Yeah, yeah.

1816
01:45:27.359 --> 01:45:31.500
Well, she's having fun and she's so, she gets me attractive.

1817
01:45:31.560 --> 01:45:33.539
Look at the sexy makeup she has.

1818
01:45:33.600 --> 01:45:34.800
So good.

1819
01:45:35.279 --> 01:45:37.920
That's it. end it there.

1820
01:45:37.979 --> 01:45:40.079
We don't ever need to go back here.

1821
01:45:40.140 --> 01:45:41.399
What a great place to end.

1822
01:45:41.460 --> 01:45:46.979
Prepare to receive instructions and then a little smile and then we're out.

1823
01:45:47.100 --> 01:45:52.439
I just don't think anything good's going to happen with her being in charge, but boy, 0 boy, what an idea.

1824
01:45:52.739 --> 01:45:53.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1825
01:45:53.939 --> 01:45:54.899
That was pretty great.

1826
01:45:54.960 --> 01:45:59.760
And it is nice to know that her descendant, the fabulous Empress George.

1827
01:45:59.819 --> 01:46:03.779
Not her descendant, but her successor, let's say.

1828
01:46:03.840 --> 01:46:11.640
And so has the kind of triumphal name that Hoshi adopts when she...

1829
01:46:11.699 --> 01:46:17.340
You know, one day Emperor Sato is going to wear costumes as fabulous as Giorgio.

1830
01:46:17.399 --> 01:46:24.300
I'm sure she does. in a palace full of scantily dressed men with a huge whip, you know?

1831
01:46:24.359 --> 01:46:26.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1832
01:46:26.100 --> 01:46:28.859
Sorry, I've got back into my fantasy land again.

1833
01:46:29.939 --> 01:46:33.359
I just want to be empress of the alternative universe.

1834
01:46:33.359 --> 01:46:37.140
That was great.

1835
01:46:37.199 --> 01:46:39.239
I have really enjoyed that.

1836
01:46:39.300 --> 01:46:45.119
Like, like, like you said, you could pull up the threads of that and they're also really much to it.

1837
01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:50.520
And even like the subplot of them, you know, forming a rebellion is half-assed.

1838
01:46:50.579 --> 01:46:52.439
And doesn't go anywhere.

1839
01:46:52.500 --> 01:46:53.880
They lose, but that's okay.

1840
01:46:53.939 --> 01:46:57.960
Like that's, you know, the mirror universe, you know, they're never going to win.

1841
01:46:58.020 --> 01:47:04.380
It does inspire a rebellion, but this is the mirror universe and we know what the mirror universe is like in the future.

1842
01:47:04.439 --> 01:47:04.920
It terrible.

1843
01:47:04.979 --> 01:47:06.300
They're not going to fix anything.

1844
01:47:06.359 --> 01:47:12.239
But, like, it's so rare for me to watch Enterprise, I just have a big smile on my face.

1845
01:47:12.300 --> 01:47:21.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and just have a blast with it and just, you know, just for once, I'll push any sort of criticisms I've got to one side, that deserves its place.

1846
01:47:21.239 --> 01:47:25.319
Maybe not on the all of the, you know, best Star Trek episodes ever.

1847
01:47:25.380 --> 01:47:28.680
That might be grading on the curve a little bit, I think.

1848
01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:35.220
In your terms, they definitely have a ceiling and they don't ever really bumper above that.

1849
01:47:35.279 --> 01:47:37.199
But on the enterprise scale.

1850
01:47:37.260 --> 01:47:39.840
Yeah, that is way up there.

1851
01:47:39.899 --> 01:47:45.180
I don't think there's anything wrong with aspiring to be fun and entertaining.

1852
01:47:45.239 --> 01:47:46.619
Do you know what I mean?

1853
01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:49.199
Like, so often enterprise doesn't manage that?

1854
01:47:49.260 --> 01:47:54.300
And sometimes all kind of TV shows fail at that and no one's ever intending not to be that.

1855
01:47:54.359 --> 01:47:57.420
But this is just solidly entertaining.

1856
01:47:57.479 --> 01:48:04.260
There's explosions and fights and and battles and people get to camp it up and, you know, fun things happen.

1857
01:48:04.319 --> 01:48:05.579
Like I just thought it was really good.

1858
01:48:05.640 --> 01:48:14.460
In terms of alternative universe episodes, and there's a lot of them now, you know, there's like, there's a half season of them in 90s strict terms.

1859
01:48:14.520 --> 01:48:22.739
I'd say I would probably put Mirror, Mirror, and Crossover, the 1st DS91, like top tier.

1860
01:48:22.859 --> 01:48:25.260
I think they're both astonishing.

1861
01:48:25.319 --> 01:48:28.680
But this might be sort of my 2nd one.

1862
01:48:28.739 --> 01:48:32.579
And then and then I do think some of the discovery stuff is good.

1863
01:48:32.640 --> 01:48:34.319
But there's so much of it.

1864
01:48:34.380 --> 01:48:36.600
Like there's 4 or 5 episodes of it, isn't there?

1865
01:48:36.659 --> 01:48:39.539
And so it's sort of hard to grapple.

1866
01:48:40.020 --> 01:48:43.380
There's moments where it's not so great and there's moments where it's brilliant.

1867
01:48:43.439 --> 01:48:46.560
I think, you know, it ends tremendously well.

1868
01:48:46.560 --> 01:48:48.119
The beginning of it is really great.

1869
01:48:48.180 --> 01:48:54.420
You know, there's a fight sequence between Jorjo and what's the fella's name?

1870
01:48:54.479 --> 01:48:56.520
Lorkar. which is amazing.

1871
01:48:56.579 --> 01:49:07.619
You know, like the scene where Ash sees Volk, you know, like the Klingon version of himself, all of that sort of stuff happens in the mirror universe.

1872
01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:10.260
Like, I think it's a really fun sequence, but it's not a story.

1873
01:49:10.319 --> 01:49:16.979
It's 5 episodes in the Mirror Universe, which is a strange thing to do, but I'm glad that they attempted it.

1874
01:49:17.039 --> 01:49:19.260
And it does fit into the themes of the show.

1875
01:49:19.319 --> 01:49:27.720
So, you know, it's doing something quite different using Star Trek stuff and repurposing it for something different.

1876
01:49:27.779 --> 01:49:30.300
And I think that's a good thing to do.

1877
01:49:30.359 --> 01:49:37.380
But what I do love is how much it draws from this 2 part story. terrific.

1878
01:49:37.439 --> 01:49:42.300
What I love about this two-part story is how much it's willing to draw from TOS.

1879
01:49:42.359 --> 01:49:45.720
Some of the most memorable TOS as well.

1880
01:49:45.779 --> 01:49:48.180
Yeah, and do it pretty well.

1881
01:49:48.239 --> 01:49:57.180
Um, sort of my ultimate accolade for this two-parter is, and I will very, very rarely make this comparison.

1882
01:49:57.239 --> 01:50:10.260
It takes hold of something, the alternative universe, that DS9 basically pissed all over and spoiled by overexposure, and actually pulled it back into something that's really worth watching.

1883
01:50:10.319 --> 01:50:16.920
So Bravo, Manikoto, Bravo Enterprise, you went out on a bit of a high.

1884
01:50:16.979 --> 01:50:17.399
Yeah.

1885
01:50:24.000 --> 01:50:29.579
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to find out where we're going next.

1886
01:50:29.699 --> 01:50:33.000
A rare success for you this time, I thought.

1887
01:50:33.060 --> 01:50:39.479
Yes, it doesn't happen very often, but I feel like I'm vindicated in my choice last time.

1888
01:50:39.539 --> 01:50:41.340
So good for me.

1889
01:50:41.399 --> 01:50:43.619
How are you going to ruin it all for us?

1890
01:50:43.920 --> 01:50:51.119
Well, I've chosen one series from sort of each iteration of Star Trek.

1891
01:50:51.180 --> 01:50:52.739
Just totally randomly.

1892
01:50:52.800 --> 01:50:53.039
Okay.

1893
01:50:53.100 --> 01:50:54.960
The animated series?

1894
01:50:55.079 --> 01:50:57.539
No, I have actually put in the original series.

1895
01:50:57.960 --> 01:50:59.340
Okay.

1896
01:50:59.340 --> 01:51:05.579
I've put in DS9 from 90s track. and Discovery from Kosman's track.

1897
01:51:05.640 --> 01:51:05.880
Okay?

1898
01:51:05.939 --> 01:51:06.600
Okay.

1899
01:51:06.659 --> 01:51:08.520
We're going to bat about all over the place now.

1900
01:51:08.640 --> 01:51:09.539
Okay.

1901
01:51:09.600 --> 01:51:16.199
Your random Star Trek discovery episode is season four, episode four.

1902
01:51:16.260 --> 01:51:18.000
All is possible.

1903
01:51:19.140 --> 01:51:29.340
So this episode is, I think, the inspiration or possibly a kind of weird backdoor pilot for Starfleet Academy.

1904
01:51:29.399 --> 01:51:31.859
So we've talked about it before on here.

1905
01:51:31.920 --> 01:51:48.659
It's the episode where Tilly takes a shuttle full of cadets and it crash lands on an ice planet and they have to deal with a monster and stuff and they learn a valuable lesson about themselves and, you know, the usual thing.

1906
01:51:48.720 --> 01:51:57.840
So it is a sort of, it's a Star Trek standard, I think, like learning curve or something, but not crap, you know, done well.

1907
01:51:57.899 --> 01:52:00.539
It could be worse than learning curves.

1908
01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:01.560
No that's right.

1909
01:52:01.619 --> 01:52:18.000
But it's Tilly and Adira in one of those beautiful future shuttles landing on a planet with a fabulous, convincing monster and kids that have kind of political issues with each other and stuff and who learn something about one another.

1910
01:52:18.060 --> 01:52:28.920
So a very standard, very Star Treky thing done well, you know, unfortunately, I have already pressed the button again, although that was thinking...

1911
01:52:28.979 --> 01:52:29.819
Not really.

1912
01:52:29.880 --> 01:52:33.359
Well, I mean, I'm not sure I want this one either, but I'll see what you think.

1913
01:52:33.420 --> 01:52:37.079
Your random Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season five.

1914
01:52:37.140 --> 01:52:39.539
So that's usually a good bit for me.

1915
01:52:39.600 --> 01:52:44.220
Episode 24 Empoc nor.

1916
01:52:44.939 --> 01:52:53.819
Oh, this is like the sex cult and the great tradition of reusing our sets to be something else.

1917
01:52:53.880 --> 01:52:55.380
See, also the defiant.

1918
01:52:55.380 --> 01:52:59.399
You're thinking of the confident from episode series 7.

1919
01:52:59.460 --> 01:53:05.039
This is the one where O'Brien needs some technobabble technology.

1920
01:53:05.039 --> 01:53:10.319
So we go to Empoc Nor, because covenant's on Empoc Nor, but it's not the episode Empoc Nor, right?

1921
01:53:10.380 --> 01:53:14.340
We take Garak with ours because there's bound to be Cardassian booby traps.

1922
01:53:14.399 --> 01:53:15.720
Okay.

1923
01:53:15.720 --> 01:53:24.779
And it turns out it's an experimentational facility to create Cardassian psychopaths and Garak gets infected with the thing.

1924
01:53:24.779 --> 01:53:28.560
And stars get...

1925
01:53:28.619 --> 01:53:32.220
And Andrew Robinson gets to do what he does in every other thing.

1926
01:53:32.279 --> 01:53:33.479
Let's kill a load of people.

1927
01:53:33.539 --> 01:53:34.319
Wow.

1928
01:53:34.380 --> 01:53:38.640
And there's a ton of sort of red shirts there that die in various spectacular ways.

1929
01:53:38.699 --> 01:53:43.619
It's very well directed, but it's like, it's just like a, it's like a horror movie.

1930
01:53:43.800 --> 01:53:45.000
Right, okay.

1931
01:53:45.060 --> 01:53:45.840
What do you think?

1932
01:53:45.899 --> 01:53:47.579
I don't mind.

1933
01:53:47.640 --> 01:53:48.840
I'd be I'd be up for it.

1934
01:53:48.960 --> 01:53:53.399
I think it's probably sort of mid as well, and we haven't done a lot mid, have we?

1935
01:53:53.460 --> 01:53:54.600
We haven't done any mid ones.

1936
01:53:54.659 --> 01:53:59.399
Maybe it's a work of challenges. one great jump scare in it that I remember.

1937
01:53:59.460 --> 01:54:00.600
I'll screw it.

1938
01:54:00.659 --> 01:54:01.140
Let's do it.

1939
01:54:02.880 --> 01:54:06.779
And plus we'll get to see those fabulous sets with just the light down a little bit more.

1940
01:54:06.840 --> 01:54:09.300
Lie down, camera on a bit of an angle.

1941
01:54:09.359 --> 01:54:10.920
I'm thinking, perhaps.

1942
01:54:10.979 --> 01:54:16.140
I think the station's on an angle, just a differentiator from our usual station.

1943
01:54:16.199 --> 01:54:17.939
I mean, it's like Brian.

1944
01:54:18.000 --> 01:54:19.859
Oh, and knock goes as well.

1945
01:54:19.920 --> 01:54:22.859
And terrible things happen to porn.

1946
01:54:22.979 --> 01:54:24.420
Oh, yes.

1947
01:54:24.479 --> 01:54:27.720
You remember when we watched Rox and Shoals and he wouldn't go behind Garak?

1948
01:54:27.720 --> 01:54:30.539
That's right. he'd been torturing him.

1949
01:54:30.600 --> 01:54:31.260
Okay.

1950
01:54:31.319 --> 01:54:35.100
Well, let's go watch a load of Starfleet cadets getting murdered horribly.

1951
01:54:35.159 --> 01:54:36.180
Okay.

1952
01:54:36.239 --> 01:54:38.699
Not learning available lesson about themselves.

1953
01:54:38.760 --> 01:54:39.239
Anything at all.

1954
01:54:39.300 --> 01:54:40.560
No, okay, good.

1955
01:54:46.619 --> 01:54:51.779
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1956
01:54:51.779 --> 01:54:58.079
We're online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1957
01:54:58.140 --> 01:55:03.779
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Larm.

1958
01:55:03.840 --> 01:55:09.359
This episode was recorded on the 6th of August 2024 and released on the 16th of August.

1959
01:55:09.420 --> 01:55:13.920
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9 and Pop Nore.

1960
01:55:34.979 --> 01:55:36.840
God, it's been so long since I've seen that.

1961
01:55:36.899 --> 01:55:37.739
It might be great.

1962
01:55:37.800 --> 01:55:39.180
I can't even remember.

1963
01:55:39.420 --> 01:55:41.399
Charles is off.

1964
01:55:42.479 --> 01:55:46.680
I seem to remember it's fairly well directed.

1965
01:55:46.739 --> 01:55:50.699
I think that's Mike Vajar, who did, like, change your face of evil.

1966
01:55:50.760 --> 01:55:54.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. mention him several times, I think.

1967
01:55:54.060 --> 01:55:56.159
Oh well, let's find out.

1968
01:55:56.220 --> 01:55:57.060
All right.

1969
01:55:57.119 --> 01:55:57.600
Okay.

1970
01:55:57.659 --> 01:56:01.680
He won't have to phone in web and he won't have the corn in it.

1971
01:56:01.739 --> 01:56:03.060
But it does have Garak.

1972
01:56:03.119 --> 01:56:04.859
Yeah, that's something.

1973
01:56:04.920 --> 01:56:05.819
He's pretty great.

1974
01:56:05.880 --> 01:56:07.020
Have we outed yet?

1975
01:56:07.079 --> 01:56:09.539
I'm not entirely sure How did what?

1976
01:56:09.600 --> 01:56:10.380
The episode.

1977
01:56:10.500 --> 01:56:12.659
Choosing this episode.

1978
01:56:14.039 --> 01:56:16.079
Have we out of there?

1979
01:56:16.140 --> 01:56:19.319
Yeah, have we, you know, the bit where we stopped talking about choosing the episode.

1980
01:56:19.380 --> 01:56:21.420
Have we reached the end of that?

1981
01:56:21.479 --> 01:56:22.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1982
01:56:22.199 --> 01:56:23.100
And now we're just talking?

1983
01:56:23.100 --> 01:56:24.659
Or are we just talking?

1984
01:56:24.659 --> 01:56:25.800
No, no, no.

1985
01:56:25.859 --> 01:56:26.939
I noticed a bit.

1986
01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:29.819
I noticed a bit, which I e-marked for the end of it.

1987
01:56:29.880 --> 01:56:30.539
Oh, okay.

1988
01:56:30.600 --> 01:56:31.140
Yeah.

1989
01:56:31.199 --> 01:56:32.699
Yeah, murder we loaded.

1990
01:56:32.760 --> 01:56:34.920
Starfleet cadets Yeah.

1991
01:56:34.979 --> 01:56:37.260
And none of them learning available lesson about themselves.

1992
01:56:37.319 --> 01:56:38.579
Oh, yeah, that's great.

1993
01:56:38.640 --> 01:56:39.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1994
01:56:39.899 --> 01:56:40.920
Yes.

1995
01:56:40.979 --> 01:56:49.859
Yeah, we should, I mean, we'll do all this possible at some point because it is pretty good, and it is a standalone in series four, which is a thing.

1996
01:56:50.220 --> 01:56:52.020
Discovery is now.

1997
01:56:52.079 --> 01:56:53.220
Now we've got...

1998
01:56:53.279 --> 01:56:56.760
We've got our actual finite amount of discovery episodes.

1999
01:56:56.819 --> 01:56:58.800
So the percentage will now only go down.

2000
01:56:58.859 --> 01:57:00.060
It can never go up.

2001
01:57:00.119 --> 01:57:00.600
Yes.

2002
01:57:00.659 --> 01:57:01.260
Well, up.

2003
01:57:01.319 --> 01:57:03.960
It'll go up to the percentage of ones that we've done.

2004
01:57:04.079 --> 01:57:04.739
Yeah, yeah.

2005
01:57:04.800 --> 01:57:09.479
Yes, but that's true of all of the series, except for lower text.

2006
01:57:09.600 --> 01:57:13.319
And Strange New Worlds. and Stranger Worlds.

2007
01:57:13.380 --> 01:57:18.779
And Star Trek Academy, which will eventually end up on the random, which is going to come.

2008
01:57:18.840 --> 01:57:19.260
Thatll be cool.

2009
01:57:19.380 --> 01:57:20.279
Yeah.

2010
01:57:20.340 --> 01:57:21.300
Yeah.

2011
01:57:21.420 --> 01:57:25.319
And we've got we've got one more series of lower decks coming later this season.

2012
01:57:25.380 --> 01:57:33.840
Oh, and only murders and only murders in the building is out in October on August the 27th, like in just a couple weeks.

2013
01:57:34.199 --> 01:57:36.600
I'm so enjoying that and I don't know why we stopped watching it.

2014
01:57:36.659 --> 01:57:43.739
I think it's because we've got we've got all of these shows we're juggling and none of them, we just need to watch one.

2015
01:57:43.800 --> 01:57:44.699
You know?

2016
01:57:44.760 --> 01:57:47.640
I've watched the 1st episode of this Obi-Wan Kenobi.

2017
01:57:47.699 --> 01:57:51.119
And like in central, I want to watch the next one because I know what a happen is.

2018
01:57:51.180 --> 01:57:55.319
You'll go, oh, let's try this and then that's another one that will get shelved for 10 years.

2019
01:57:55.380 --> 01:57:58.859
Um, that was...

2020
01:57:58.859 --> 01:58:01.260
Well, because when I go to Robert's place, That was our show.

2021
01:58:01.319 --> 01:58:04.260
Like we would watch only motors in the building when it came out.

2022
01:58:04.319 --> 01:58:07.800
And, you know, it's so clever and so funny.

2023
01:58:07.920 --> 01:58:13.439
Yeah, I love wonderful. name director I love him so much.

2024
01:58:13.500 --> 01:58:15.779
Oh, Martin Short's character.

2025
01:58:15.899 --> 01:58:16.859
Did you say that again, please?

2026
01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:17.939
But with more meaning?

2027
01:58:18.359 --> 01:58:19.920
So good.

2028
01:58:19.979 --> 01:58:23.640
But just Selena Gomez is kind of going, oh my god.

2029
01:58:23.699 --> 01:58:28.319
Like these weird octogenarians that I'm kind of lumbered with is so funny.

2030
01:58:28.380 --> 01:58:29.819
So great.

2031
01:58:29.880 --> 01:58:38.399
But I've got to say, I could not believe how visually stunning Obi-Wan Kenobi was.

2032
01:58:38.460 --> 01:58:41.880
I just was like, I kept saying to Mark, I can't believe this is telly.

2033
01:58:41.939 --> 01:58:44.880
I cannot believe I'm watching TV.

2034
01:58:44.880 --> 01:58:45.779
Mandalorian.

2035
01:58:45.840 --> 01:58:51.539
Well, that's on this run, so I will watch the Mandalorian because we're doing the whole lot through in order.

2036
01:58:51.960 --> 01:58:59.399
Okay, because I, I mean, I like the Mandalorian until it gets too Star Wars, Ian, and I don't give a shit.

2037
01:58:59.699 --> 01:59:03.119
I was so drab looking.

2038
01:59:03.180 --> 01:59:05.100
I couldn't believe it.

2039
01:59:05.220 --> 01:59:07.500
Yeah, blue, you know?

2040
01:59:07.560 --> 01:59:09.539
It was like series 9 of Doctor Who.

2041
01:59:09.600 --> 01:59:10.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2042
01:59:10.680 --> 01:59:11.579
Show me some green.

2043
01:59:12.899 --> 01:59:26.939
The, like, like, I thought, you know, because you've got Tandy Newton and you've got, you know, um, Woody Harrelson and you've got all of these people who are actually really good actors and stuff.

2044
01:59:27.539 --> 01:59:30.060
He's Woody Harrelson, isn't he?

2045
01:59:30.119 --> 01:59:31.260
Is he in it?

2046
01:59:31.319 --> 01:59:33.000
Oh, in a dreamy?

2047
01:59:33.060 --> 01:59:33.960
Yeah, no, he is, yeah.

2048
01:59:34.020 --> 01:59:35.880
Yeah, like it's got good actors, isn't it?

2049
01:59:35.939 --> 01:59:37.800
Mia Clark was good in it as well, I thought.

2050
01:59:37.859 --> 01:59:43.500
Beautiful, um, um, what's his face, who plays Lando?

2051
01:59:43.619 --> 01:59:46.260
Oh, Donald Glover.

2052
01:59:46.319 --> 01:59:47.279
Donald Glover.

2053
01:59:47.340 --> 01:59:47.579
Yeah.

2054
01:59:47.640 --> 01:59:49.079
I think he's tremendous.

2055
01:59:49.140 --> 01:59:51.180
He was the best thing, isn't it?

2056
01:59:51.239 --> 01:59:52.619
His lando was so accurate.

2057
01:59:52.680 --> 01:59:54.060
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2058
01:59:54.060 --> 01:59:59.819
I didn't think the solo man, though, was...

2059
01:59:59.819 --> 02:00:07.619
I think just, yeah, I think recasting, like, if you're going to keep hauling these characters out, you have to recasting.

2060
02:00:07.619 --> 02:00:09.720
It's so interesting here, because that one bombed.

2061
02:00:09.779 --> 02:00:13.380
And so they were going to do 2 sequels and then, yeah, yeah.

2062
02:00:14.039 --> 02:00:30.779
Well, like, people think Rogue One is better, but I think, like Rogue One's visually more interesting, but there's so many men in it, and like, it's been cut to ribbons, so I don't know what Felicity Jones's character stands for or is doing.

2063
02:00:30.840 --> 02:00:36.359
And then they get those elements and they bring them all, like, and Cassian Andor is super boring.

2064
02:00:36.420 --> 02:00:48.420
And then they make Fiona Shaw, his mother, and they bring, you know, those elements into Andor, and I think Andor's just terrific.

2065
02:00:48.539 --> 02:00:54.300
We watched all the trailers for all the shows and that one was the one visually, the trailer stood out to me.

2066
02:00:54.420 --> 02:01:00.060
Yeah, and Mon Mothma's in it, like the woman who plays Mon Mothma in...

2067
02:01:00.060 --> 02:01:03.119
It might be a bit too much of a reference for me. don't know who that is.

2068
02:01:03.180 --> 02:01:11.760
The woman who plays, so Monmouth is in Return of the Jedi, and she's the woman who says, Benny Botham's died to bring us this information.

2069
02:01:11.819 --> 02:01:28.920
You know, the woman who gives the briefing, you know, um, and then she, she's like, um, Felicity Jones's antagonist in Road Guan, and she's Senator Monmoutha, and she's super posh with this sort of cut glass accent.

2070
02:01:28.979 --> 02:01:30.779
Oh, even though I think Oh, I remember.

2071
02:01:30.840 --> 02:01:40.439
Yeah, and she's played by an Australian hilariously. and she's fucking fabulous in in Andor.

2072
02:01:40.500 --> 02:01:41.159
She's so good.

2073
02:01:41.220 --> 02:01:42.960
And the new companion.

2074
02:01:43.020 --> 02:01:49.319
And the new Doctor Who companion is also in it as a, um, you know, character.

2075
02:01:49.380 --> 02:02:06.899
She's, she's the girlfriend of Shona from last Christmas, who is also a very posh rebel who, um, yeah, like, I think it's really good, and it's so beautifully written.

2076
02:02:06.960 --> 02:02:09.659
There's some great speeches and some terrific acting in it.

2077
02:02:09.720 --> 02:02:11.520
Like I just thought it was fucking great.

2078
02:02:11.579 --> 02:02:14.100
And I don't care about any of the law heavy stuff.

2079
02:02:14.159 --> 02:02:16.619
And like I wasn't going to watch Obi-Wan.

2080
02:02:16.680 --> 02:02:20.279
I wasn't going to watch the book of Boba Fett. like I just thought those are for other people to enjoy.

2081
02:02:20.340 --> 02:02:25.140
But people started talking about Andor and I believed them and they're fucking so good.

2082
02:02:25.439 --> 02:02:31.500
I think it, like, Ewan McGregor wants to be there, you know, what can I be?

2083
02:02:31.560 --> 02:02:33.239
And the difference in his performance.

2084
02:02:33.300 --> 02:02:38.039
Yeah, he's like, that would be properly acting in that, you know?

2085
02:02:38.100 --> 02:02:39.659
Yeah, okay, which is great.

2086
02:02:39.720 --> 02:02:45.600
But just a little girl that they've got playing Leia, it's sublime.

2087
02:02:45.960 --> 02:02:51.119
She's like 8 years old and she's acting all of these adults off the screen.

2088
02:02:51.180 --> 02:02:52.260
She's amazing.

2089
02:02:52.319 --> 02:02:54.960
And she's a total cow as well.

2090
02:02:55.619 --> 02:02:57.420
Really fun.

2091
02:02:57.479 --> 02:02:59.819
I was like, I wasn't sure what to expect.

2092
02:02:59.880 --> 02:03:00.960
I got to go to that episode.

2093
02:03:01.020 --> 02:03:02.279
I was like, yeah, next one please.

2094
02:03:02.399 --> 02:03:04.739
Yeah, okay. that's really good