WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:41:34

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back aboard Deep Space 9 this week for a another episode

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of Star Trek, The Next Generation.

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It's season three, episode eight.

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It's directed by Jonathan Frakes.

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Bless him.

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Um, and it's called Meridian.

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Early days for Jonathan Friends, directs in Star Trek.

9
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Now, I mean, he's still doing it now, isn't he?

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He certainly did last year.

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He did the 2nd last episode of Discovery earlier this year.

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Do you feel like watching that recently and then watching this?

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Do you feel as if there's techniques may have become a little bit

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more sophisticated over time?

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Yeah.

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There certainly whirls the camera around like an absolute bastard

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these days.

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Oh, no wonder I love this more then.

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Nice, nice, sedate pictures of a nice park.

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You know, people wandering around.

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I'm not sure the camera moved once in this, if I'm honest.

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So this is a this is a romance.

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And I am a big fan of romance as a genre, but one of the things

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that I think we've discovered from Untitled Star Trek project is

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that when the women in the show have a romance, it's always

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terrible and it's always with an absolute creep and it's really

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kind of embarrassing for everyone.

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And that's less true when the men have a romance.

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Well, when the men are the romance.

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It tends to be strong women.

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And when the women have a romance, it tends to be strong men.

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And that power imbalance is just a bit dodgy.

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Whereas I don't think he is a very strong man in this.

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In fact, he's just very wet.

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Well, so I think the problem is this, right?

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In 45 minutes, I think you can do a romance and I am going to make

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a rare reference to Doctor Who because this year Doctor Who did a

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45 minute romance with the doctor.

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It's something that it's done before, and I thought that the

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romance worked as a romance and that you discovered things about

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the people and that it centred on the 2 people and their

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relationship.

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This is a show about a space anomaly, and a romance happens in

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order to give it some kind of weight or something.

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But the romance never has time to land because we're all busy with

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the space anomaly.

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And so it's unclear what the 2 of them see in each other and why

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this is suddenly such a big thing.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Why they're prepared to kind of make life altering plans on the

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basis of someone that they've met a day or 2 ago.

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And so that's the other thing.

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You know, the scale of the romance is so great and they never get

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the chance to sell it and it's not really what the episode's

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interested in.

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And so the whole thing doesn't really work.

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So Terry Farrell or memory alpha makes a comparison between this

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and rejoined.

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And actually, it has quite a bit in common with what you just said

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there.

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That is also about a space of anomaly.

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They're creating artificial wormholes.

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And there's a load of tender babble in that episode like there is

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in this, but that episode is not concerned with the artificial

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wormholes at all.

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It's just an excuse to get the 2 characters together to brilliant

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actresses who have great chemistry and history together as

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characters.

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Yes.

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And then let that play out.

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Whereas you're right, in fact, in between the scenes where they're

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off to a park eating berries out of a lake and all of this.

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They're just looking at pads going, what, the telemetry of

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brickadoon.

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Sorry, Meridian.

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Yes, it does seem to be stabilising.

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Yes.

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Oh, by the way, what?

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lovely spots you have.

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Anyway, back to the techno babble.

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And it's more interested in the concept than it is in the

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romance.

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And so it fails as romance.

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No, and the concept isn't that interesting either in itself.

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We were just talking before we started recording about blink of an

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eye, which is a Voyager episode, which is something a bit similar

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in its high concept, but it actually tells the story of a

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civilisation developing over a period of time.

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Like it has something to say about people and it's not just

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talking about space anomalies.

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I mean, I'm not entirely sure how, but I think there is a way that

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you could make this work as a concept, this idea of a planet that

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sort of zaps back into existence every 100 years.

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Is that right?

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60 years it disappears.

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Yeah. 60 years. 60 years.

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So and the idea of a community then coming together, picking up

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where they left off.

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And if you could sort of do something with the characters on the

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planet and they're interacting with you and what that means to

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them.

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But what instead what happens is, is every 60 years, the community

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comes together and they all go, oh, how lovely.

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We're all here again.

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Well, we'll be gone, but I'll see you in 60 years. you know, that's

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so boring.

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And there's a kind of last minute mantlepiece, masterpiece society

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thing happening.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Where he can't go off with like the guy whose name is Daryl, for

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God's sake.

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Darrell.

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Darrell.

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Darrell.

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Daryl.

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Daryl.

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So, Daryl and and Jetsy, like he can't go off with Jansia because

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there's a lady that he should be having a relationship with or

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something on the planet because there's very few people left on

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the planet.

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And that's that's the other thing.

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There's some sort of crisis.

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They disappear for 60 years, but they're appearing for just a few

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days at a time, and it used to be longer and there used to be time

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to bang and have children and build buildings and all of that sort

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of thing.

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But now, because it's sped up, they're only here for a few more

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days and then they sort of disappear.

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And so there's some crisis.

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You could tell a human story about feelings within that premise.

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If you wanted to, but they just choose not to.

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But you've got to make it kind of relatable.

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Like, I don't know, how do you feel about, you know, becoming

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incorporeal for 60 years, like, is that a good thing, a bad

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thing?

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I don't know.

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Am I scared?

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Am I boring?

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visit England once every couple of years, okay?

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All right.

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So there's only the possibility for us.

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Fuck every 5 years.

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Okay.

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I don't know how you would do this.

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No, I don't know how you would do that.

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But within all of that.

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I didn't hate this.

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I think mostly because I think these characters are getting

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slightly well worn now, as in they're comfortable playing the

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characters.

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So the interactions, even though I've been buy it for a second.

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The bit where Cisco goes to her course and goes, well, I guess

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you're leaving us forever to go to that Brigadoon planet and all

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of that.

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But the chemistry between the characters is so great.

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I've said you before about hanging out with these characters.

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It does hold, and may I say, oh, no, you're going to fire me on

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this.

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I really enjoyed the B plot.

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So the B plot is about collecting celebrity deep fake porn of not

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a visitor.

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No, I mean, it shouldn't exist.

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It is deeply problematic of what Jeffrey Coombes is asking Corp to

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do.

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All of it is deep.

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But I thought there were some witty moments.

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There's a lovely people where he's trying to do the whole scanner

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of Kira on the promenade.

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And that scene, as written, but said by those actors, is so

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funny.

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Oh, and that's one where I noticed Jonathan Frakes directing as

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well because there's lots of stuff where you're getting to see

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into the camera so the characters are looking at the camera

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stuff.

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And that's actually quite fun.

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Look, it's just a toy bit.

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It goes, what's it?

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They want to, they want to know what it feels like, major, to be

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on the bridge with you, fighting Jem'Hadar ships, and then Odo

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goes naked, I presume.

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That's some funny stuff.

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Look, I think it's really funny.

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It's Jeffrey Combs again in a, you know, rocking the bow mask

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scale.

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This is his birth appearance.

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Oh, it really?

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That's...

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In fact, there's a wonderful special feature on the series 5 D

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Space 9 where he sort of lists out all the people that he played

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and at the end he goes, and Tarah in Meridian.

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Like I see embarrassing side character that he plays.

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Yeah, no, it's a rough looking alien.

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Like all of that stuff's quite fun.

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Is this the 1st indication that there's going to be something

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between Odo and Kira?

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No, that that occurs in series two.

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And it's after she leaves the room in one scene and he, like this

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you, you, you, the camera lingers on him and he's thinking about

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what they're talking about.

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You're like, what the hell's that all about?

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So it's just a sort of a flirtation.

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So we're still, we're still kind of laying the groundwork for it.

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And I thought that worked very well, that 1st scene where Kira

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pretends to be with Odo. just the interaction. with the characters

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working.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Even in these god awful dreary episodes.

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They're sort of bringing a bit of life to it because they're so

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fun to watch.

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The end of the B plot, right?

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Is Eva the most inspired ending of any plot ever or the most

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cringing juicy scene in Star Trek of all time?

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When Armatuma's head comes up.

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I mentioned I was in fits of laughter.

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But it was more sort of, I can't believe they did that than that's

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a really funny joke.

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I mean I think we'll have fun with this.

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Yeah, I think so.

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Let's play spot the TNG cliches.

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Okay, let's do that among other things.

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All right.

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I will count it in.

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Of course.

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Above all of those things, of course, you're going to be extremely

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pleased with this episode because they go outside.

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We will talk about that.

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We will talk about that.

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All right, sorry.

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Please count us in.

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All right.

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Okay, and that's it.

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Five, four, three, two, one.

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And we're off.

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I do have some quotes, you know, but I'll pepper them throughout

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the episode if we get a bit desperate.

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Everyone talking about one, is that right?

237
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Pretty much, yeah. pretty much.

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Although they all like working with Jonathan Frakes.

239
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Of course they did.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

242
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Yeah.

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Because he's our space dad.

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So we're in the reprimand.

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Is that, is the replemat said?

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Yeah, I wanted to ask you about this, you know, you know when you

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have a hot drink.

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Are you Kira?

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Do you have it too hot to savour the taste or do you make it sort

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of and then I like that dialogue.

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It's super cheesy.

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Like it's such TV dialogue.

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That's just whole episode, though, to be fair.

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Yeah, but I did like it, you know, like it's a it's a fun sort of

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thing.

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Oh, I like the fact that they just hang out and have lunch

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together in the replabat.

258
00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:40.200
You get loads of scenes like this.

259
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.440
Usually the best ones are, Bashir Garak.

260
00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:46.919
And that's mostly because he's winding him up.

261
00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:48.960
Yeah, yeah.

262
00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:50.279
I mean, I don't mind this said.

263
00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:52.139
It turns up it turns up late, doesn't it?

264
00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.779
It must turn up in series 3 or is it even earlier than that?

265
00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:56.820
The replemats in the series.

266
00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:57.419
Yeah.

267
00:11:57.419 --> 00:11:57.720
Okay.

268
00:11:57.779 --> 00:11:58.379
Okay.

269
00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.220
Yeah, they're sitting at this table when um, garage, uh, shop

270
00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:05.519
blows up in, no, no, Keiko school blows up.

271
00:12:05.580 --> 00:12:07.500
A lot of things love on the propenade, right?

272
00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:07.740
Okay.

273
00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:08.100
Yeah.

274
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.360
Oh, he's a son.

275
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:15.419
Can you describe this alien on the Beaumont scale, please?

276
00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:24.059
So he's got kind of big floofy red hair and he's got a kind of

277
00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:25.379
it's something about his mouth.

278
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:26.100
What's going on?

279
00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:27.720
He's got no lips or something.

280
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:33.179
It's, and he's got like green teeth, and he's got like big bug

281
00:12:33.179 --> 00:12:36.539
head, forehead and chin and stuff.

282
00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:38.519
And just sort of mottled and unpleasant.

283
00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:40.919
Weird deep lines all over his face.

284
00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:44.519
Segmenting his face in a strange way.

285
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:45.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

286
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:46.259
It's nothing.

287
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.200
This is definitely mid-season.

288
00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:51.720
Michael Westmore can't be our Australian.

289
00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:55.200
Yeah, he's got 4 nostrils and they're all upside down.

290
00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.559
It's to make up for the woman with no nose.

291
00:12:58.620 --> 00:12:59.940
He's got two.

292
00:13:00.899 --> 00:13:04.799
Oh my god, Odo's face when she goes, Oh, sorry.

293
00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:06.600
Odo's my partner.

294
00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:08.820
And he goes, yeah.

295
00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:10.139
Can I do Jeffrey Coombs?

296
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.740
He goes, what a interesting couple you make.

297
00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:21.419
Like, even with a thankless role like this, he just embodies it

298
00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:21.600
does he?

299
00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:22.259
He goes for it.

300
00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:24.419
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

301
00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:25.139
Yeah, yeah.

302
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:29.340
No, I think it would be less fun if it wasn't for him.

303
00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:33.179
And like he's a sleaze and like that's Odo's thing.

304
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:38.039
Like, just the idea, just the very clear thing that people just

305
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:44.639
use the holo sweets to kind of jerk off is so hilariously great.

306
00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:48.000
And there's some really funny stuff about it here, but it just

307
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.340
seems like a very odd thing for a Star Trek show.

308
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.320
For me, right, when I watch Deep Space Noy.

309
00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.820
That was the thing that really separated this from TNG in that.

310
00:13:56.820 --> 00:14:00.299
Obviously, in TNG, Riker goes on and sees Minuet, and we know what

311
00:14:00.299 --> 00:14:02.340
they're using it for, but no one talks about it.

312
00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:04.919
Whereas they're just so open about it on the show.

313
00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:07.559
In the 1st series, Quarks going, you know, don't you have sex on

314
00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:07.860
your world?

315
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:09.419
You know, use these programs.

316
00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:12.960
They were just a bit more honest about what was going on.

317
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:17.100
Odo looks at his hand, the hand that she's been holding in the

318
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:21.779
thing, and Odo looks at it, which I thought was...

319
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:22.379
Yeah, yeah.

320
00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:23.279
I like the bit.

321
00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:26.100
She goes, she calls in sweetheart, and looks Odo in the face.

322
00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:29.759
And then Odo looks Taran in the face and goes, yes, sweetheart.

323
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:36.419
So here we have the define, and clearly the reason we've

324
00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:39.539
introduced the Defiant is so that we can do Star Trek the Next

325
00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:40.440
Generation episodes.

326
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:43.440
Is that what you think is happening?

327
00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:46.860
And weirdly enough, three, season three, is peppered with these

328
00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:48.240
sort of TNG, yes.

329
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:49.799
Every sort of 3rd episode.

330
00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:55.379
And then in season four, they just abandon it completely. and use

331
00:14:55.379 --> 00:14:59.519
the defiant one for the war and 2 for somewhere for war to sleep

332
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:02.220
because he's not going to hang out with those primitives on the

333
00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:02.519
station.

334
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:03.960
Yeah.

335
00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:04.559
Yeah.

336
00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:07.679
And like, so this is a step backwards, I think.

337
00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:10.620
I can I can imagine being disappointed at the time that we're just

338
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:14.700
doing Star Trek shit and the reason that we have a ship is so that

339
00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:17.159
more than 2 people can go on a mission at once.

340
00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:21.720
It's a very weird period, this, and it's almost odd and even, good

341
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.720
and bad, because you get this, which is pretty bad.

342
00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:27.179
Then you get defiant, which is wonderful.

343
00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:32.519
Then you get fascination, which is the love virus. then you get

344
00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.740
civil defence, which is the Cardassian.

345
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.860
It's like you're sort of spearheading between good and bad

346
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:39.539
constantly in three.

347
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:40.139
It's really weird.

348
00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:44.700
And and civil defence, which is on the same videotape as this?

349
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:46.080
Is it civil defence then Meridian?

350
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:47.100
the one just before this?

351
00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:48.720
Oh, is it?

352
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:48.960
Okay.

353
00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:50.100
I think it might be.

354
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:51.720
I maybe misremembering that.

355
00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:55.379
But civil defence is a great episode of Deep Space 9 that

356
00:15:55.379 --> 00:15:59.220
absolutely, like, depends on the premise of Deep Space 9.

357
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.860
It's not a Star Trek the Next Generation episode at all.

358
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:02.759
It's really great.

359
00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:06.240
But sort of, from series 4 almost, we just had a line of

360
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.580
technobabble there where they were all looking at the viewscreen

361
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:12.779
and going, my God, the gravitation fluctuations are destabilising

362
00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:13.259
or something.

363
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:16.799
Well, we don't, we just don't do that in the latter half of these

364
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:17.220
nine.

365
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:18.240
Yeah, yeah.

366
00:16:18.299 --> 00:16:20.460
So are they still trying to figure it out at this point?

367
00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.320
Oh, I think so.

368
00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:25.440
But I think that, I mean, that's what this show does, isn't it?

369
00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:28.919
Like it just reinvents itself every year as it tries to work out

370
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:32.039
what's working and get rid of what's not working and that's good.

371
00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:32.940
I'm glad it does that.

372
00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:38.639
I think the hit rate is like the latter half of season 2 is one

373
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.480
banger after another and they're really leaning into the premise

374
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.000
of the show and they're doing lots of Cardassian episodes and

375
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:46.019
great character tales.

376
00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:47.519
They're not doing any of this.

377
00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:50.879
While they suddenly decided to start doing TNG light.

378
00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:52.320
Leave it to Voyager.

379
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.860
Is it because TNG is now off the air?

380
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.659
Oh, maybe.

381
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.179
Yeah, maybe we'll throw him a bone.

382
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:01.860
We'll give him a couple of TNG episodes.

383
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:02.639
Yeah, yeah.

384
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:04.619
I don't know.

385
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.859
Like, there's one later in the season called Visionary where

386
00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:13.920
O'Brien is having visions of like 3 hours in the future, and

387
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:16.980
eventually it leads to a vision where the station explodes.

388
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.140
And so we have to stop that from happening.

389
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.480
It's totally a TNG episode.

390
00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.519
Right.

391
00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:23.880
Yeah.

392
00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:26.640
Or do you remember the one inside Bashir's head?

393
00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:30.660
inside his head, the station.

394
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.279
Yeah, of course it is.

395
00:17:32.339 --> 00:17:34.380
With the lights down a little bit.

396
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.119
Yeah, yeah.

397
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:37.200
Okay, right.

398
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:37.980
Well, what is this?

399
00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:40.859
Oh my god, do you know what the planet appearing out of nowhere is

400
00:17:40.859 --> 00:17:41.099
like?

401
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.240
It's a bit like Aldea from...

402
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:46.920
Yeah, absolutely.

403
00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:48.059
I was thinking I'll die.

404
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.200
Or even Megas 2.

405
00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:51.299
You know, appear in half.

406
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.599
It doesn't look as lickable, though, as make us too.

407
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:55.920
No, mega C.

408
00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:58.319
Oh, this woman, she is so boring.

409
00:17:58.380 --> 00:17:59.880
Do you think?

410
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.460
Well, I mean, it's a kind of boring character, but she's kind of

411
00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:07.680
you know, charismatic enough, I think.

412
00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:09.000
Yeah.

413
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.460
Do you know what they do, right?

414
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:16.140
In series five, they do children of time, and it is an identical

415
00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:19.920
opening to this, where it's like, 0 god, this, we're going through

416
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.599
this gravitational what's it?

417
00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:24.839
And then a woman appears on the screen in stock colony set number

418
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:27.480
58, just like she does, with a similar sort of lighting.

419
00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:30.660
And I was thinking, oh, God, no, please.

420
00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:31.859
We're doing Meridian again.

421
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.440
And instead they go, no, we've learnt our lesson now.

422
00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:36.960
We're going to give you the best character drama you've ever had

423
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:37.799
on Disney.

424
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:38.220
Yeah.

425
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:39.059
Yeah.

426
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:43.980
Yeah, see, that's quite a good painting thing.

427
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:45.240
Yeah.

428
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.079
What do you think about that sort of backdrop there with the plots

429
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:49.500
everywhere?

430
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.579
Well, like what they've done is rather than do the sky.

431
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.460
They got it lead in such a way that the camera blows out slightly

432
00:18:56.460 --> 00:18:58.859
so that it looks like a sky.

433
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.819
But of course, he's never looks like anything other than a said.

434
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.579
And as you said, it's stock colony set one.

435
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:10.440
Now, here is this guy who is who opens with a creepy line.

436
00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:14.099
Nathan, I was just admiring your markings.

437
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.019
Oh, yeah, no.

438
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:16.980
Jesus Christ.

439
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.539
I was just admiring your markings.

440
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.079
If you don't mind my asking, how far down do they go?

441
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:23.099
That's so awesome.

442
00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:24.299
Like, this is the 1st time.

443
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:25.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

444
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:28.259
But she just goes all the way.

445
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.920
And then look, Miles is having a little bit of a reaction there.

446
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:36.420
Cisco looks very relaxed there at the Roman table, doesn't he?

447
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:37.859
Yeah, he does.

448
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:39.779
He's a Roman table, isn't it?

449
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:42.059
Did you notice as well?

450
00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.059
They keep having these sort of delicious fruits and vegetables

451
00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:48.359
right in the front of the shot just to show that these people are

452
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:49.680
very sophisticated.

453
00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:51.660
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

454
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:52.140
Yeah, yeah.

455
00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:54.900
It's sort of shorthand to eat anything.

456
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:55.559
No.

457
00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:57.839
Oh, I mean, there's just peppers and things.

458
00:19:57.900 --> 00:19:58.799
You know what you're going to do?

459
00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:00.660
Pick one up and bite into it.

460
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:01.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

461
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:02.640
They don't look very alien.

462
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:03.180
Do they?

463
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:03.900
Oh, God.

464
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.599
He has a line in a minute about the fruit, though, where he goes

465
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.660
oh, the trick is to get really get the pulp out.

466
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.599
And that's supposed to be like sexy dark. sexy.

467
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:13.799
Yeah, yeah.

468
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:15.480
Like, I can't see.

469
00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:17.759
Why do they they like one another?

470
00:20:17.819 --> 00:20:18.960
They're like, there's nothing there.

471
00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:21.059
There's no...

472
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:21.720
She's a woman.

473
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:23.640
What more do you need?

474
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:24.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

475
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:25.559
What do that?

476
00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:26.700
What could they possibly have in common?

477
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.700
Like, it's nothing.

478
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:30.839
It's not just nothing.

479
00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:33.420
I think the problem with this... the woman, the leader.

480
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:33.900
What's her name?

481
00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:38.039
Her name is Celton Rakard.

482
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:39.539
Space name.

483
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.700
Celton Ricard, you say.

484
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:42.900
She has 2 names.

485
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:43.440
Celton.

486
00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:46.079
Probably with Celton. or Ricard.

487
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:49.619
Yeah, depending on what her 1st name is. is she just says

488
00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:50.640
everything on one level.

489
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.579
She never really displays an emotion.

490
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.519
Even when he wants to leave, she's just like, oh, look, here's

491
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:57.359
fruit sex here.

492
00:20:57.420 --> 00:21:00.000
Look, eat the thin layer inside the rind.

493
00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:01.140
Oh my god.

494
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.160
Fucking hell.

495
00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:03.839
Excuse me, feeding her.

496
00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:05.339
Can someone pass me a cushion, please?

497
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.839
I'm getting to a dog mile.

498
00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:08.160
Oh, yeah, yeah.

499
00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:09.779
This is the sexiest thing that ever happened.

500
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:11.819
She goes, it's delicious.

501
00:21:16.259 --> 00:21:20.640
Oh, that goes, oh, no, it's one of those terrible Star Trek Jag

502
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:21.180
jokes.

503
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:25.680
Oh, it's a long time between meals, 60 years. yeah.

504
00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:27.599
But that means between banging, doesn't it?

505
00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:31.079
That's a long time between we've come back to this porny subplot.

506
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:33.180
This is where all the fun is.

507
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.619
He goes, I want Kira. doesn't he?

508
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:42.839
That is actually very Geoffrey Coombs, isn't it?

509
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:47.579
No, no, this, you know, he didn't need to stay the whole hour and

510
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:49.559
he goes, yes, it's a very effective program.

511
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:50.700
On the contrary.

512
00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:53.640
I found it quite dull. immediately.

513
00:21:54.539 --> 00:21:59.279
But it's just so explicitly you're in there to rub one out.

514
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.819
That's why it's out of a thing.

515
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.880
Nathan, I'd like to pretend that if we had hola sweets, then we

516
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.559
wouldn't be using it for that purpose.

517
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.640
Yeah, of course we would.

518
00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:10.619
But, you know, we are men after all.

519
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:11.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

520
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:12.720
No, we absolutely would.

521
00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:15.779
Well, with lower decks, remember, you have to clear out the hollow

522
00:22:15.779 --> 00:22:16.740
suite sometimes.

523
00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:18.539
If you're a lower decker, it's your job.

524
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.599
It's always going on about the pleasure goddess of ricks.

525
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:24.599
We do hear about her quite a bit.

526
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:25.920
That's his favourite program.

527
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:27.539
Oh, okay.

528
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:29.279
No, I don't know about that.

529
00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:33.900
Oh, I see it's like Marina Certius from Reg Barclays.

530
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:36.119
Yes, the goddess of empathy.

531
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:37.259
Yeah.

532
00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:39.299
I don't like picnics quack.

533
00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:49.019
But let's not pretend that having a custom built sex program made

534
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:51.839
for you is very icky.

535
00:22:52.259 --> 00:22:54.900
Yeah, yeah, of a person.

536
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:55.799
Do you know what I mean?

537
00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:56.579
Like of someone.

538
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:57.779
Yeah.

539
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:01.140
But but obviously the comedy comes from all the different various

540
00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:01.559
ways.

541
00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:06.299
He tries to trick Kira into having a hologram scan done.

542
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:10.680
Also, is it because we can do this now and there's a word for it

543
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:14.339
and it happens and it's really super creepy.

544
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.240
Whereas it's, there's a level of sort of space fantasy to it

545
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.980
because it isn't a real thing in 1990 or whatever.

546
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:24.720
Is that a thing?

547
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:25.799
make a difference.

548
00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:26.279
I don't know.

549
00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:28.500
I don't know It is still creepy.

550
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.799
And Kira rightly regards it as creepy, like she thinks it's

551
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:33.180
terrible and it doesn't happen.

552
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.700
Like, to be fair, quite gets thwarted.

553
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:41.940
Um, So, what I like about it is, go with me here.

554
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.119
This just doesn't happen on any other Star Trek show.

555
00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:49.380
Like, like this sort of dodgy, underhanded things that are going

556
00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:51.480
on behind the scenes on DS 9.

557
00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:53.400
Perhaps we shouldn't be privy to them.

558
00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:55.740
I think this is the sort of thing, you know, when the Enterprise

559
00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:59.039
docks and they go, oh, we're going to that sleazy station, DS9.

560
00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:00.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

561
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:06.240
It's a it's a little more honest. maybe about humanity.

562
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:08.220
Maybe.

563
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:12.000
It's just a little bit kind of, to be unfortunate.

564
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.420
But it's not as offensive as it could be.

565
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.660
But then why was I having more fun with this than I was with

566
00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:19.380
Meridian?

567
00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:22.920
Yeah, this is more fun than the meridian pot.

568
00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:28.559
But that is another problem with season three. is very often the B

569
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.799
plot is more enjoyable than we've done a couple now.

570
00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:36.539
That's such a funny line from Quark, where he goes, the things I

571
00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:37.200
do for money.

572
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.079
Yes, that's the point.

573
00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:42.299
It's such a funny line.

574
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.119
I've just suddenly realised why these 2 are infatuated with it

575
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:45.299
up.

576
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.099
They both walk around with their arms behind their backs.

577
00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:48.299
Their arms like that.

578
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:49.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

579
00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:50.099
Yeah.

580
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.859
I think that that's a thing that they've decided to do to show

581
00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:56.880
that, you know, like you, you know, you sometimes imitate people, I

582
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:58.980
don't know, I think it's a deliberate acting choice.

583
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:06.000
When they start to decide to actually give these characters long

584
00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:09.599
standing relationships, that's when they think, right, what sort

585
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.299
of actor can we bring in that would truly compliment?

586
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.200
Let's bring in Penny Johnson Gerald to go with Avery Brooks.

587
00:25:16.259 --> 00:25:17.279
Oh my god.

588
00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:20.880
Michael Dawn and Terry Fowell have great chemistry, less explore

589
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:21.119
that.

590
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:24.839
I don't just bring in these bland murder she wrote actors. to come

591
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:30.420
in and seduce Jadzia for one week. such a generic white guy who is

592
00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:35.339
sort of roughly attractive, I guess, in a very dull way.

593
00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:40.079
She would not fall for somebody this bland in a million years.

594
00:25:40.140 --> 00:25:40.980
Yeah, yeah.

595
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:41.940
Yeah, yeah.

596
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:42.660
Yeah.

597
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:47.819
Is it because it's what men think women find attractive or

598
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:48.180
something?

599
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:51.599
I can't tell the gender of...

600
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:53.099
I think maybe you're right.

601
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.279
I think maybe the writers of Star Trek, the Express 9 are nice

602
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:59.279
blokes and they think, well, you know, just like we always laud

603
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:00.299
writers on this show.

604
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.119
Let's put ourselves in it because obviously Jad Zero would fall

605
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:04.259
for a nice guy like me.

606
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:08.039
But unfortunately, this is not sort of bloke that women usually

607
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:08.640
fall for.

608
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:14.099
I mean, I found it far more believable when Jadzia had her arms

609
00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:16.500
around Vanessa Williams and they were doing the pottery together.

610
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:19.259
That's the sort of person she would fancy.

611
00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:21.539
Yes, yeah, exactly.

612
00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:25.559
Oh, well, did you like Cisco playing with the kid there?

613
00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:26.339
I quite like that.

614
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.279
It's just, he's got a very natural way.

615
00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:30.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

616
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.319
Here we are, now we're back on the station.

617
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:36.480
For the B plot.

618
00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:40.619
That's right Oh, this is when he tries to trick Kira into going

619
00:26:40.619 --> 00:26:42.000
into the holo suite, isn't it?

620
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.299
You've won all these special treats because you're my 1000000th

621
00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:45.599
customer.

622
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:47.819
That's so great.

623
00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:55.380
There was a beat of character work in this that I liked where she

624
00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:57.119
went, I've never won anything before.

625
00:26:57.180 --> 00:26:59.880
Of course she hasn't, she's like...

626
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:01.440
She was in a refugee camp.

627
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:04.380
Yeah, yeah. that's right I liked that.

628
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.539
I thought that was, you know, it's a boring thing.

629
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:09.539
It's a sort of fairly standard bit of dialogue, but it works with

630
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:10.380
Kira, I think.

631
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:11.579
I thought that was good too.

632
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:16.140
I think that our visitor is a strong enough actress to know, God

633
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.460
this bullshit subplot.

634
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:19.319
I will just dig something out of it.

635
00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:21.960
You made that lie, you 1000000 customer.

636
00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:23.460
She's really great.

637
00:27:23.579 --> 00:27:26.220
And she's doing like cute business as well.

638
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.059
Like I really like how exasperated, how busy she is. oh come on

639
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:30.900
don't do this to me now.

640
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.619
Can I can I point out as well, because I do this quite a bit with

641
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:37.859
DS9, but do you remember the scene in Emissary?

642
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.859
If you don't take your hand off my thigh, you'll never lift a

643
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:45.779
glass of it again to this to the very last scene in what you leave

644
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:50.880
behind. which is her going, no, all betting pools are off.

645
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:55.859
Like, they, they just have, they, they do these duos of characters

646
00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:58.980
and they run it throughout the series and they just give them lots

647
00:27:58.980 --> 00:27:59.700
of great moments.

648
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.960
This is perhaps not the best, but she's actually quite excited by

649
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:04.859
the champagne.

650
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:08.099
She's quite happy about that.

651
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:08.940
Doesn't she say?

652
00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:10.859
Thanks for the champagne quark.

653
00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:16.200
Well, it's Ensign Quintana's birthday, so he'll like the hola

654
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:19.140
sweet tokens. not transferrable.

655
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:20.339
Why doesn't he say that?

656
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.259
Yeah, like she likes the champagne.

657
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:26.039
Thanks for champagne.

658
00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:28.980
And then she holds up her little dabbo things and goes, oh, I've

659
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:29.339
got these.

660
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:30.900
Like she's actually been excited.

661
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:33.480
And then she goes back to work. with her champagne.

662
00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:34.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

663
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:35.400
Good for her.

664
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.720
The only thing is, right, is in the very next episode, because I

665
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.119
watched a fire after this, I don't know if you remember the

666
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.180
beginning of the fire, it was having a bit of a nervous breakdown

667
00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:49.259
because she's overworked.

668
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:52.619
So Bashir goes, right, you're relieved of duty and I'm taking you

669
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:56.220
to Quarks and he forces her to sit down and Quark comes in with

670
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:57.119
another load of stuff.

671
00:28:57.180 --> 00:28:59.700
Gambling tokens, hollow sweets, jumpjaw sticks.

672
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:01.319
I'm like, didn't we do this last week?

673
00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:02.579
Did you do that last week?

674
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:04.440
Whoops.

675
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.940
Like the defiant sense, you know.

676
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:12.960
I like how claustrophobic it feels.

677
00:29:13.019 --> 00:29:14.160
Yeah.

678
00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:19.140
And I'm like going with that brown colour that isn't quite the

679
00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:22.920
brown from the station, but reminds you of it.

680
00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:25.500
Like you can see why they did that as well.

681
00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:27.359
Oh, God, look at this.

682
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:29.579
It's the same as that bit where...

683
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:32.339
Chakotay said to Janeway, oh, every time you've got a tough

684
00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:34.980
decision, you play with your badge. and she's never done it.

685
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:39.000
Jazzy, I never bites so low a leg when she's coming.

686
00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:40.740
You've got to tell.

687
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:42.059
You always look to the side.

688
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:44.220
They're constantly doing that in Star Trek.

689
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.319
She goes, I suppose I do.

690
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:49.920
I've never noticed it before You must be a man of deep insight.

691
00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:51.420
Oh my god.

692
00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:54.000
Like, what is this?

693
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:55.920
Are they are they going to bone?

694
00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:56.700
Like what's happening?

695
00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:58.619
Like she's adjusting the neck of her thing.

696
00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:01.500
Can you see Cisco watching from behind?

697
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:02.579
Yeah, yeah.

698
00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:05.400
Oh my god.

699
00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:07.859
We're going outside.

700
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.440
Now this is a very pretty park, don't you think?

701
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:14.759
It looks like the planet Trill from Star Trek Discovery.

702
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:17.039
You don't have those lovely CGI creatures coming out of the

703
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.339
bushes.

704
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:18.359
No, that's true.

705
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:20.279
Little flying things coming out of the water.

706
00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:21.119
It is refreshing.

707
00:30:21.180 --> 00:30:25.740
Although DS9 has a weird habit. of spending its location work on

708
00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:27.900
episodes like this and times orphan.

709
00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:33.779
Maybe they were thinking, how can we shush this up a bit?

710
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:34.980
Let's go outside.

711
00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:38.220
Yeah, well, imagine if they'd done it.

712
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:39.779
Oh, look, there's a waterfall.

713
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:41.819
There's a thing, blah, blah, blah.

714
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.400
But you know the bit later on where they climb the tree, or it

715
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.039
might be in a 2nd and you see the sort of the whole view of the

716
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:48.299
park and the river and everything.

717
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:50.940
I'd love to sit there and read.

718
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.160
That'd be a lovely park to read and have a little picnic.

719
00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:58.680
So there was a moment and I'll show you why, in a sec, where I

720
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.460
thought, no, look, look, look, we go over here to the tree, now

721
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:04.740
we're at the tree, and I'm thinking, oh, we're back in the fucking

722
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:05.220
studio.

723
00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:06.720
Look at that.

724
00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:12.660
Because they've put fake grass down around the tree for some

725
00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:14.759
reason, like there wasn't sufficient grass.

726
00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:18.180
They've put, look, you can see the edge of the fade grass. and

727
00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:20.099
they've scattered the fake grass with leaves.

728
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:23.519
That was that's like the sub-rosa grass there, isn't it?

729
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:25.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

730
00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:29.640
And they've added some extra sort of branched things to the tree

731
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:30.299
as well.

732
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:35.759
See these fuzzy branches so that he can climb up without falling

733
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:36.000
over.

734
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.099
Oh, how funny.

735
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.319
Oh my god.

736
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:41.640
It's a sitting branch here.

737
00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:45.599
I can tell you a small quote from David Livingston now who says

738
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.059
this episode was mostly talking.

739
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:51.599
Jonathan got some really nice performances out of Terry and our

740
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:52.380
guest actor.

741
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:53.339
I'm not sure about that.

742
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:57.299
But he does say we went back to Huntington Gardens and we found

743
00:31:57.299 --> 00:31:59.339
this tree and that was great.

744
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.200
That's all he's got to say.

745
00:32:01.259 --> 00:32:03.240
He liked the trade.

746
00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:06.420
So this guy is in everything.

747
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.599
Brett Cullen. you look at his memory alpha page.

748
00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:11.460
He just has a massive career.

749
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.759
Well, as bit parts or, yeah, yeah.

750
00:32:14.819 --> 00:32:16.500
Big parts and things.

751
00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:19.440
I've seen lost and shit.

752
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:21.059
Desperate housewives.

753
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:23.160
Maybe it's the rice in there.

754
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:24.240
I don't know.

755
00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:24.900
I don't know.

756
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:31.500
Well, it's kind of a, I don't know, he's in Allie McBeal, V, Ghost

757
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:33.599
Whisperer, just stacks of stuff.

758
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:36.900
You got to remember, this is the Jonathan Frakes that's directing

759
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:40.079
you know, Captain Burnham and her hot boyfriend.

760
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:43.140
You know, he can read some passion to the screen.

761
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, about, you know, Captain Burnham and his hot and

762
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.579
her hot boy boyfriend are kind of hotter than these couple, I

763
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:50.759
think.

764
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.460
Terry Farrow is very hot.

765
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.279
Terry is a very, very beautiful woman.

766
00:32:56.339 --> 00:32:57.180
I agree.

767
00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.039
Ugh, yuck.

768
00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:01.500
And you're going to eat be these fucking...

769
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:03.480
I think they're blueberries out of a pond.

770
00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:04.140
Yeah.

771
00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:05.759
In a pond.

772
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:08.640
Well, no, we cut away, so I'm assuming it wasn't the ones that he

773
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:09.539
took out of the water.

774
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:13.380
No, no, no, but I'm just saying that's what he's doing in the

775
00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:13.559
story.

776
00:33:13.619 --> 00:33:18.839
Now, I, now that I'm going to say, I did like these park scenes.

777
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.539
I mean, not so much for the romance, just because it was nice to

778
00:33:21.539 --> 00:33:21.900
look at.

779
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:26.700
And I think Dennis McCarthy, who's fresh from Star Trek

780
00:33:26.700 --> 00:33:31.440
generations doing the sport for this, actually did quite a nice

781
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:36.359
it's almost more sort of sad than romantic, but the music was

782
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:37.500
quite nice in this scene as well.

783
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:39.660
So I'll give them a few props.

784
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:40.740
Yeah.

785
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.460
Yeah.

786
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:42.779
Oh no, here we go.

787
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.640
Very chaste.

788
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:46.500
It's that sort of chin kissing.

789
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.259
You know, when you sort of push your chin in like that.

790
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.019
It's like yeah, you're kneading dome with your face.

791
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:59.400
Whereas, if you see her later when she grabs hold of Michael Dorm

792
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:01.140
She gets her tongue so far down his throat.

793
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.140
Yeah, well, like Terry Powell's been waiting for that moment.

794
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:08.280
We saw him in far beyond the stars recently and he's very, very

795
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:08.639
pretty.

796
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.239
He's a big guy.

797
00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:14.639
I think this lighting in the set's not too bad.

798
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:16.980
Yeah, that is actually pretty good.

799
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.300
What I what I like in this era is where they have that really

800
00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:25.619
bright yellow lighting and even though the lighting's really flat

801
00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:28.199
at the beginning, there's lights and shadows in the background.

802
00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:31.619
Like it's in the foreground, it's really, oh, no, like there's

803
00:34:31.619 --> 00:34:32.639
silights on her head.

804
00:34:32.699 --> 00:34:33.360
Do you know what I mean?

805
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:35.460
The lights reflecting off their hair and stuff like that.

806
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:36.539
Like, it's okay.

807
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:40.260
I can't believe I'm going to say this as a critical remark, but I

808
00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:42.840
like the fact there's tons of foliage and they're put in the light

809
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:43.320
through that.

810
00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:45.239
So it's throwing shadows everywhere.

811
00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:45.719
I don't know.

812
00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:49.440
A bit more effort than we saw in TNG series one, you know?

813
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:50.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

814
00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:53.579
It's it's even better than Ensigns of Command.

815
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:57.179
Go and watch the, what's it called?

816
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:02.099
The Bendy City, Benzardi City, an encounter of Far Point, where

817
00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:03.599
it's all just flat lit.

818
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:05.219
Yeah, yeah.

819
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.000
They're learning.

820
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:11.820
They are learning, but this, like, interestingly, again, by the

821
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:15.480
time we get to children of time, they do lots of scenes where they

822
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.159
go on location at dusk as the sun's going down and then they match

823
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.820
it in the studio with the same precisely.

824
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:25.260
So they really do start learning.

825
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.599
Sorry, what were you going to say?

826
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:29.579
just super bored.

827
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:31.079
They're just looking at these pads.

828
00:35:31.139 --> 00:35:33.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

829
00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:33.960
Yeah, yeah.

830
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:34.860
Yeah.

831
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:37.199
One thing needed to be card.

832
00:35:37.260 --> 00:35:38.099
Do you know what I mean?

833
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:42.539
Like, just, like, if you don't need to do a romance about Dax, like

834
00:35:42.539 --> 00:35:43.079
I don't know.

835
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:47.280
So the romance here is to make give her what?

836
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.460
So her romance falls foul of a space anomaly.

837
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:52.559
That's right.

838
00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:53.880
Yeah.

839
00:35:53.940 --> 00:35:56.280
I just don't know like what's...

840
00:35:56.340 --> 00:35:58.199
She just said a load of text about what. jumped up sort

841
00:35:58.199 --> 00:35:58.739
excitedly.

842
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.960
Now, I did like it when she ran off and then came back and given

843
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.400
him a kiss and then ran off again.

844
00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:03.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

845
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:03.719
Daxy.

846
00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:05.820
My favourite scene of the whole episode.

847
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:06.599
See this?

848
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:09.539
Well, I think this is directed in a fun way as well.

849
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:11.699
I've only got one thing to say to you.

850
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.940
If I ever catch you pointing a hollow image of me again, you will

851
00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:16.019
end up eating it.

852
00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:21.659
I was hoping she was going to say that I was going to go and go

853
00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:22.679
and threaten to feed it to him.

854
00:36:22.739 --> 00:36:23.099
Go on.

855
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.860
Oh, and there's a wonderful way because Cork keeps telling lies as

856
00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:30.420
to why he's using this hollow imager.

857
00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:35.159
And with every lie, Odo goes, ha, ha, ha.

858
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.500
And he goes, will you stop doing that, please?

859
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.360
It's so great.

860
00:36:39.659 --> 00:36:42.719
This is a very witty scene, I think.

861
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:43.739
Yeah.

862
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:44.400
Yeah.

863
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:46.260
No, but I love the direction of it.

864
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:49.860
I loved having them just run towards him as well in that tiny

865
00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:50.400
set.

866
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:52.619
They manage to get a bit of a run happening.

867
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.320
He goes, he's bored in an hour.

868
00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:56.400
He goes, where are you going?

869
00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:58.380
And then he realises she's heading straight.

870
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:00.179
He goes, oh, no, Jesus.

871
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.800
I mean, I wouldn't say this is the best These are 3 very good

872
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:08.280
actors.

873
00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:10.739
Well, yeah, yeah, I agree.

874
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:12.900
He's the program.

875
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:19.199
If if you ever needed a better example of 3 prestige actors

876
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.320
lifting terrible material, here, yeah.

877
00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:25.079
And a director doing it as well.

878
00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:26.219
Look at Lodo.

879
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:31.079
Look at Odo, smiling indulgently because he knows it's all a lie.

880
00:37:31.139 --> 00:37:33.420
Naked, Irish.

881
00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:36.480
Isn't there some petty thief?

882
00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:38.820
Isn't there some petty thief he can harass?

883
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:39.960
And he goes, just you.

884
00:37:40.019 --> 00:37:44.400
Just you. so fun.

885
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:48.420
It reminds me.

886
00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:50.519
That reminds me of that scene from Emissary as well.

887
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:53.760
You know, at first, I didn't think I was going to like him.

888
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:58.320
Is that a no?

889
00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:02.219
So funny.

890
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:05.340
And then she throws it away.

891
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:07.739
And he goes, it's definitely a no.

892
00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:11.039
It just clatters though.

893
00:38:11.099 --> 00:38:12.840
They should have followed you at smashing.

894
00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:15.000
Oh, back on that footage.

895
00:38:15.059 --> 00:38:18.179
We're back on the, back in the, yeah, we're outside.

896
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.880
I mean, I will say one thing about this park.

897
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:24.059
It's a bit too cultivated, isn't it, to be this sort of random

898
00:38:24.059 --> 00:38:24.360
planet.

899
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:28.440
But look, we're shooting we're shooting the the reflection in the

900
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:28.800
water.

901
00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:29.519
That's a thing.

902
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:31.139
That's definitely a thing.

903
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:33.539
He's trying, isn't he?

904
00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:34.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

905
00:38:34.980 --> 00:38:36.960
Do you remember the park in Silicon Avatar?

906
00:38:37.019 --> 00:38:37.860
Yeah.

907
00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:39.659
Where the colony was taking place?

908
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:43.500
This is a little bit more lush than that, but, you know, it's the

909
00:38:43.500 --> 00:38:43.980
same sort of thing.

910
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:47.280
Can I throw a quote at you from Hillary J.

911
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:48.659
Bader, the writer of this episode?

912
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:52.440
Yeah, now, I was trying to work out whether Hillary was male or

913
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.559
female a little bit earlier and I can't find out.

914
00:38:55.619 --> 00:38:58.739
There's a couple of times because there are sort of gender

915
00:38:58.739 --> 00:39:01.619
nonspecific names in the Star Trek creatives.

916
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:02.519
There's a few times.

917
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:06.480
Well, their partner is called Jay, which also is probably gender

918
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:07.320
nonspecific.

919
00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:08.519
So I couldn't work it out.

920
00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:11.280
Because Kim Friedman's a director and that's a man.

921
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:12.480
That's a man.

922
00:39:12.539 --> 00:39:12.960
Yeah.

923
00:39:13.739 --> 00:39:19.139
Anyway, he or she says, of all the stories I've done for Star Trek

924
00:39:19.139 --> 00:39:21.659
Meridian is my least favourite.

925
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:25.739
And then Ronald D. Moore says, I don't think anyone likes the

926
00:39:25.739 --> 00:39:26.099
show.

927
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:28.019
I don't think we like the show.

928
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:31.019
This one just went wrong and it never jailed.

929
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:34.380
And visual effects supervisor Glenn Newfield says.

930
00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:37.559
It's a classic case of making it up as we go.

931
00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:39.179
I don't wanna talk about it.

932
00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:43.500
Now, Ira Bear says about the visual effects, he goes, there's some

933
00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.559
nice things in this episode, but to make that show really work, we

934
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:50.219
would have needed to have had another $200,000 for opticals.

935
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:52.500
What opticals?

936
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.079
Well, I think he's talking about the bit at the end where she's

937
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.320
trying to breathe in that weird void as the planet's vanishing

938
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.360
because it looks really bad.

939
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:04.500
But, but I have to say that it's not the problem.

940
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:05.460
Do you know what I mean?

941
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.900
Like, it tells the story.

942
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.760
We know what's happening.

943
00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:11.880
It may not look great, but it's Star Trek in the 90s and sometimes

944
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:15.360
that doesn't quite work, but the special effects actually tell us

945
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.980
what's happening, which is their job.

946
00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:20.219
What can I say something kind then?

947
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:21.480
Because Terry Farrell should go.

948
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.599
And she says, I thought that show was done well.

949
00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:27.719
I loved working with Jonathan, but to be honest, I thought

950
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:29.820
rejoined work better as a love story.

951
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:33.719
I don't think Meridian was as emotionally honest as rejoined in

952
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:36.300
its approach to the Dax relationship and its dialogue.

953
00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:38.820
I just sort of fell in love with this guy.

954
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:39.719
Boom.

955
00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:43.260
Many people enjoyed the show and as an actress, I did too

956
00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:46.139
especially the scene where I had to say goodbye to Avery Brooks.

957
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:49.559
Those kind of scenes are easier to play because it's with Avery

958
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:51.840
and because he's very sportive of me.

959
00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:54.960
If it hadn't have been for Avery, I don't know if I would have

960
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:55.980
gotten through our 1st season.

961
00:40:56.099 --> 00:41:01.380
So I agree with her criticism, but I can see that she's sort of

962
00:41:01.380 --> 00:41:02.039
having fun with it.

963
00:41:02.099 --> 00:41:05.639
I mean, they only get 2 episodes a year with the focus.

964
00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:06.960
Like I said, yeah, yeah.

965
00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:10.559
I think, like, I do think that scene between her and Avery is

966
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:10.860
good.

967
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:14.280
I actually, I think there's some good things in this scene as

968
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:14.579
well.

969
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.460
Look how chill they are, and that's a thing that you need to do.

970
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:19.440
Like if she was really leaving.

971
00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:21.719
You would have to have this scene.

972
00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:25.380
And, you know, the scene about Tongo where it turns out she

973
00:41:25.380 --> 00:41:28.920
doesn't know that Quark is letting her win Tongo all the time

974
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:34.139
because Quark fancies her, which is a thing that, you know, comes

975
00:41:34.139 --> 00:41:38.880
up in series 7. you know, like um, in shadows and symbols and

976
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:39.119
stuff.

977
00:41:39.179 --> 00:41:43.500
Um, and when, you know, he, you start selling weapons on the

978
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:43.920
station.

979
00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:47.699
He goes to Dax's quarters because he knows he's going to die

980
00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:51.420
because he's about to expose the whole the whole chain and goes to

981
00:41:51.420 --> 00:41:53.519
Dax's quarters and gives her the tongo wheel.

982
00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:55.800
So they play with that quite a bit later on as well.

983
00:41:55.860 --> 00:41:57.179
Yeah, okay.

984
00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:58.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

985
00:41:58.559 --> 00:41:59.639
It's a it's a game.

986
00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:03.599
I'm very good at it Season 3 is really where they got Bashir right

987
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:03.900
as well.

988
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:04.860
He's so chill here.

989
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:09.179
Compared to one and 2 where he was so hottight all the time.

990
00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:12.719
Well, it's kind of overwritten, isn't it?

991
00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:16.260
You know, like, are they just decide to let the actor do his thing

992
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:16.619
I think?

993
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:19.619
One thing in this episode's favour, and I said this to you on the

994
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:23.579
chat, is if this was a TNG episode, I don't think we'd ever do the

995
00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:25.860
point where the man was choosing to leave Meridian.

996
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:30.059
It would just be Beverly Crusher or Councillor Troy staying on

997
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:30.599
Meridian.

998
00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:32.460
And I do like the fact...

999
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:36.059
Yeah, I do like the fact that we go there first, and that's his

1000
00:42:36.059 --> 00:42:39.840
natural assumption is that he is going to leave rather than she is

1001
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:40.500
going to stay.

1002
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:41.039
That was nice.

1003
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:50.159
No, because both Odan and Ronan want Beverly to give up her job

1004
00:42:50.219 --> 00:42:52.019
can't believe you remember their names.

1005
00:42:52.139 --> 00:42:53.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1006
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:57.840
And creepy guy from the price wanted, I think, wanted Deanna to

1007
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:58.559
give up her job.

1008
00:42:58.619 --> 00:43:01.380
Like the assumption was that she gives up her job.

1009
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:03.900
Yeah, I don't know.

1010
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:06.539
Like that that is better.

1011
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:10.920
But why are they making these kind of weird career altering

1012
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.659
decisions in like 2 days?

1013
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.900
Like are they are they 17?

1014
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:17.760
Like, what's going on?

1015
00:43:17.820 --> 00:43:21.059
Because the episode is only 45 minutes long and we want to forget

1016
00:43:21.059 --> 00:43:21.780
about it next week.

1017
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:23.579
That's right.

1018
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:26.940
And so what you do, you have to rein it in.

1019
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:32.340
You have to, like, like, none of that happens again. the recent

1020
00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:36.059
Doctor Who episode as a, as a, as a comparison.

1021
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:37.440
They don't do any of that.

1022
00:43:37.500 --> 00:43:38.760
Do you know what I mean?

1023
00:43:38.820 --> 00:43:42.840
Like they don't, like, it doesn't get to that point.

1024
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:49.320
What works in rejoined is that it's Susanna Thompson's character

1025
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:51.179
Lenara, that makes a choice.

1026
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:52.019
I'm going to stay here.

1027
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:53.639
I'm going to defy trial tradition.

1028
00:43:53.699 --> 00:43:54.300
I love you.

1029
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:55.139
I'm going to be with you.

1030
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:59.699
Then her brother talks to her and her career would be over and all

1031
00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:02.639
of this and she's like, I don't know what to do.

1032
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:03.239
I know what to do.

1033
00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:05.159
She goes, well, the shuttle's going tomorrow and make your choice

1034
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:06.719
because I really want to be with you.

1035
00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:10.260
And Dax is there all hopeful, hoping that she's going, and of

1036
00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:11.639
course she goes off and she's devastated.

1037
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:12.960
But that works.

1038
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:14.519
Yeah.

1039
00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:16.019
But they've got a history.

1040
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:19.440
You know, there's stuff invested in it in that relationship

1041
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:20.039
already.

1042
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.619
But this doesn't work because we know Dax isn't going to be

1043
00:44:22.619 --> 00:44:24.960
leaving DS9 on this God awful episode.

1044
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:28.619
Whereas in that episode, we don't know that Leonara isn't going to

1045
00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:30.179
join the station because Barell did.

1046
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:31.440
You know, Chicago did.

1047
00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:34.559
We've had love interests come along, so she maybe she would have

1048
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:34.800
stayed.

1049
00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:35.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1050
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.579
Penny Johnson, Gerald will, you know, like everyone will.

1051
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:41.639
Nathan, I really like the lighting in this episode, this sort of

1052
00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:44.940
suffuse glow of the lads in my time.

1053
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:45.599
Yeah.

1054
00:44:45.659 --> 00:44:46.679
It's quite nice on that.

1055
00:44:46.739 --> 00:44:48.960
And the fact that it seems to be open to the outside.

1056
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:50.940
What's Daryl doing?

1057
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.239
Well, I... how I sit with my other half.

1058
00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:57.420
I do just sit in his lap while we're watching the TV and he

1059
00:44:57.420 --> 00:44:59.820
strokes my hair and the way she's sort of stroking his arm.

1060
00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.579
So body language wise, I can buy this.

1061
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:06.239
I think they do do a good job of trying to sell that.

1062
00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:07.199
Do you know what I mean?

1063
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:09.480
Like, I think they do try.

1064
00:45:09.539 --> 00:45:15.059
But I can't, I don't get anything from them because I don't, he

1065
00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:15.599
what's he?

1066
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:17.639
He's got no characteristics at all.

1067
00:45:17.699 --> 00:45:19.199
What's he like as a person?

1068
00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:21.119
He's just blonde.

1069
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:25.619
She could find out he's a beast when they come back 60 years

1070
00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:26.099
later.

1071
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:29.699
Oh, God, all my friends are 60 years older, I'm stuck here with

1072
00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:30.480
this monster.

1073
00:45:30.539 --> 00:45:31.739
You know?

1074
00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:36.239
I don't think that was going to pan out that way, B. Oh, God

1075
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:37.380
listen to this dialogue.

1076
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:40.559
I could lose you What if you didn't have to lose me?

1077
00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:44.280
Oh, what if I stayed here with you?

1078
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:45.360
sent a robot.

1079
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:46.619
I wish you could.

1080
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:47.639
But that's not possible.

1081
00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:50.820
It's like if you asked AI to write a romance in Star Trek, isn't

1082
00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:50.940
it?

1083
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:51.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1084
00:45:51.900 --> 00:45:55.440
Well, particularly the line, your molecular structure wouldn't

1085
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.900
survive dimensional shift.

1086
00:45:58.019 --> 00:46:02.159
No, she goes, I could build a quantum stabiliser.

1087
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.820
Oh, my matrix and yours could be joined or something.

1088
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:09.119
It's like, my gosh, I'm getting weak at the knees.

1089
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:10.679
That so sexy, isn't it?

1090
00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:16.559
Only Insta, the only genre.

1091
00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:19.739
Sorry, the only franchise that does romantic dialogue worse than

1092
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:21.659
this is George Lucas.

1093
00:46:21.780 --> 00:46:23.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1094
00:46:23.699 --> 00:46:26.639
That's considerably worse.

1095
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:28.619
Oh, possibly JMS on Babylon 5.

1096
00:46:28.860 --> 00:46:32.760
He does terrible romantic dialogue as well. have never even heard

1097
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:33.000
of it.

1098
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.159
Maybe just romance in science fiction.

1099
00:46:35.219 --> 00:46:36.300
It's not a great movie.

1100
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:37.980
No, I don't think that's true.

1101
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:41.159
I don't think that's true because I think the relationship between

1102
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:44.820
book and and Michael is good.

1103
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.699
I think the relationship between Paul and Hugh is good.

1104
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:55.500
Like, Cisco and Cassidy, Gray and Adira, you know, like...

1105
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.659
Do you remember that wonderful scene where, oh, I know I keep

1106
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:00.539
bringing it up, where she wants to move in and he's like, that's a

1107
00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:00.960
big step.

1108
00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:02.280
What the hell do you mean by that?

1109
00:47:02.340 --> 00:47:06.599
She goes, you are afraid of commitment, Ben Cisco?

1110
00:47:06.659 --> 00:47:08.219
I'm off.

1111
00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:09.420
I'm never going to see you again.

1112
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:11.099
It's wonderful.

1113
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:13.800
I suppose it's how you play it and how you write.

1114
00:47:13.860 --> 00:47:20.760
Well, but these single episode romances never really work, do

1115
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:21.059
they?

1116
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:22.079
Have they tried it?

1117
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:23.219
Kursman Trek.

1118
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.199
The single episode romance?

1119
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:27.239
I'm trying to think.

1120
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:28.500
I don't think they have.

1121
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.019
No, it's because they're all actual people.

1122
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:32.579
Yeah, yeah.

1123
00:47:32.699 --> 00:47:37.199
In lift me up where suffering cannot reach in series one, which is

1124
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.420
one that you haven't seen, which I think is really good, and you

1125
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:39.900
should watch.

1126
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:45.599
Um, um, Pike has a, an old fling.

1127
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:46.679
Do you know what I mean?

1128
00:47:46.739 --> 00:47:49.980
Like he comes back to a planet where it's a woman that he's had a

1129
00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:51.119
relationship.

1130
00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:51.960
Do you know what I mean?

1131
00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:54.300
Like a brief relationship with and they're going to have sex again

1132
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:55.079
sort of thing.

1133
00:47:55.139 --> 00:47:58.920
And that seems much more grown up and much more kind of sensible.

1134
00:47:58.980 --> 00:48:00.780
Do you know what I mean, than this stuff?

1135
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:03.480
Terry Farrell says in that quote that she didn't leave the

1136
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:06.719
relationship herself because why on earth would Dax just fall in

1137
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.619
love with this man?

1138
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:09.119
But she liked this scene.

1139
00:48:09.179 --> 00:48:13.380
And you can see it because even the situation is absurd.

1140
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:14.820
Everything she's saying is crazy.

1141
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:16.019
The emotion is real.

1142
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1143
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:24.599
She's really doing a great job of this too, isn't she?

1144
00:48:24.659 --> 00:48:29.519
Selling this sort of stuff and look, look at Avery.

1145
00:48:29.820 --> 00:48:32.460
And then they hug in a minute as well.

1146
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.519
I've always said to you, I love, don't take this for a while.

1147
00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:37.679
I love how much they touch each other on DS 9.

1148
00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:39.659
It just suggests a familiarity.

1149
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:43.079
And then I can call you old man.

1150
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:44.460
I look forward to it.

1151
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:45.840
It's beautiful, isn't it?

1152
00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:46.619
Look at them.

1153
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:47.159
Yeah.

1154
00:48:47.219 --> 00:48:50.099
That I buy, that relationship.

1155
00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:51.480
Just great.

1156
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:58.800
I say, there are just way better Cisco taxi elsewhere.

1157
00:48:59.099 --> 00:49:03.539
Yeah, and because this isn't really a thing, like, but I thought

1158
00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:05.400
that was pretty good, I thought that was great.

1159
00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:05.880
All right.

1160
00:49:05.940 --> 00:49:08.340
Back to the proper plot, the A plot.

1161
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:08.880
Oh, yes.

1162
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:10.980
This program is as good as you claim.

1163
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:15.239
Oh, it goes, I've got my own holosuite back at home and Quark is

1164
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:17.039
so impressed by that, isn't it?

1165
00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:19.920
That's such a funny line too.

1166
00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:24.360
It's like the things I do for money earlier.

1167
00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:27.300
He, his very own holly's hollow sweet.

1168
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:28.500
What's he say?

1169
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:32.519
Just a little present I bought myself, he says. good to have

1170
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:32.820
money.

1171
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:39.719
Again, I think it's great how Jonathan Frakes shoes this, sort of

1172
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:42.179
going through these lustrous peak silks.

1173
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:43.139
Yeah, yeah.

1174
00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:45.719
It's pretty basic.

1175
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:49.260
It's just a visual gag of having nanal visitor lying on that bed

1176
00:49:49.260 --> 00:49:52.260
an almond shimmerman underneath it, and it's...

1177
00:49:52.260 --> 00:49:54.239
Don't you think it's a body double?

1178
00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:55.739
Don't you think it's her body double?

1179
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:57.960
Oh, I hope that's...

1180
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.699
It would be pretty great if it was a...

1181
00:49:59.699 --> 00:50:02.519
They still talk about it to this day.

1182
00:50:02.579 --> 00:50:04.739
Remember that time we were in that porn program together?

1183
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:12.059
I went home and goes, I've been waiting for you.

1184
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:18.300
Oh, say these terribly gross pan up her body.

1185
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:20.820
What, whoever that woman is, she's got...

1186
00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:22.500
Great legs.

1187
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:29.280
I mean, it doesn't work convincing.

1188
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:30.840
He's probably selling it, though.

1189
00:50:33.179 --> 00:50:37.559
I don't know how Quark, but I will ruin you for this.

1190
00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:41.579
Great.

1191
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:47.579
And actually, I love Odo and Kira going, oh, I never satisfy

1192
00:50:47.579 --> 00:50:50.639
customer and they come in like a good work, you know, a good job

1193
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:51.059
done.

1194
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.880
They do these fun little subplots.

1195
00:50:57.059 --> 00:50:58.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1196
00:50:58.980 --> 00:51:02.820
So they outwit Quark's doing something skeevy and porny and they

1197
00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:03.900
beat him.

1198
00:51:04.019 --> 00:51:05.280
Is that the end of that play?

1199
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:06.059
Yeah, it is.

1200
00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:10.139
Do you remember Nathan in sound of her voice when it's um...

1201
00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:13.679
Uh, oh, God, I can't even remember what it is now.

1202
00:51:13.739 --> 00:51:14.880
There's a wonderful.

1203
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.920
Oh, no, Jake and Quark are working together to get these crystals

1204
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.980
on the station and they're trying to go to all these lengths to

1205
00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:26.159
outwit Odo so he doesn't realise that it's coming.

1206
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:29.760
And then and but Odo sees through it all.

1207
00:51:29.820 --> 00:51:32.699
And at the end of the episode. him and Kira going off to the holo

1208
00:51:32.699 --> 00:51:35.519
suite again, and she goes, are you sure you want him to get away

1209
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:36.420
with these crystals?

1210
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.400
And he goes, look, I owe him one, all right?

1211
00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:39.900
He did introduce me to you.

1212
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.780
But he'll only get this one and that's it.

1213
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:43.440
And he walks off.

1214
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:47.579
I really like those those fun little subplots.

1215
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:51.659
Need I remind you of the no J consortium?

1216
00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:57.239
Yeah They've sort of set that stuff up so that they kind of write

1217
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.199
themselves.

1218
00:51:58.320 --> 00:51:59.820
Like, that was a bit nothing.

1219
00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:03.420
Again, there's no sort of reversals or anything like that

1220
00:52:03.420 --> 00:52:04.500
particularly.

1221
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:06.780
I guess there's the surprise reveal at the end.

1222
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:07.619
But that was pretty good.

1223
00:52:07.739 --> 00:52:10.380
It's a bit nothing good. thank god it's there.

1224
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:11.519
Yeah.

1225
00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:15.480
Otherwise, we'd be stuck watching this. for 45 minutes.

1226
00:52:15.539 --> 00:52:19.440
But, you know, like if they gave this 45 minutes, would that give

1227
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:21.900
us enough time, I just don't think they're interested in that

1228
00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:22.500
relationship.

1229
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:26.099
It's not a story about Quark falling in love with a guy and then

1230
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:26.699
losing him.

1231
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:28.860
It's about.

1232
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:30.300
Sorry, didn't I say Quark?

1233
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:33.420
falling in love with a guy and losing him.

1234
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:34.920
It's Clark.

1235
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:36.179
That would be, I'd watch that.

1236
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:38.039
No, that's rules of acquisition, remember?

1237
00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:48.179
Um, yeah, it's, it's a story about Jadzia falls in love with a guy

1238
00:52:48.179 --> 00:52:51.360
and then they're separated forever by a space anomaly and you just

1239
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:52.920
sort of think, well, that's super boring.

1240
00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:55.019
I love story for the ages.

1241
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:59.760
Yeah, and even the separation doesn't fall out of the relationship

1242
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:01.320
in any particular way.

1243
00:53:01.380 --> 00:53:02.280
Do you know what I mean?

1244
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:06.000
It's just, and they're randomly parted. and they don't even really

1245
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:10.019
like there's, it's a very strange low-key farewell too.

1246
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:11.340
Mrs. Hall was there.

1247
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:12.960
It's just so flat.

1248
00:53:13.019 --> 00:53:17.039
And like, they're like, oh, something's destabilising the Matrix.

1249
00:53:17.099 --> 00:53:18.179
I wonder what it could be.

1250
00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:21.360
And then it takes them about a minute to realise it's Dax when

1251
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:22.980
she's the only one not turning gray.

1252
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:24.960
That's right.

1253
00:53:25.019 --> 00:53:27.239
That's the other thing, too, is that there's something in the

1254
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.539
script that doesn't rely that doesn't think it can rely on the

1255
00:53:30.539 --> 00:53:32.219
visuals to tell that part of the story.

1256
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:35.820
And so while we've seen this happen for like a couple of minutes

1257
00:53:35.820 --> 00:53:39.599
now, these scenes where it rocks and now she puts her hand through

1258
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:45.059
him, all of that stuff, but we still need it explained to us, you

1259
00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:46.860
know, like it takes them a long time to work it out.

1260
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:50.460
The visuals or it doesn't trust a view, you can tell. to figure

1261
00:53:50.460 --> 00:53:51.599
out what's going on.

1262
00:53:51.659 --> 00:53:53.340
Yeah, maybe both.

1263
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:56.219
But, you know, like, that's why I don't think the visuals are that

1264
00:53:56.219 --> 00:53:59.340
terrible because I think this, you know, it does sell what's

1265
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:00.119
happening.

1266
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:04.079
Do you know, that poor woman playing Stalim Rana or whatever her

1267
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:04.559
name was?

1268
00:54:04.619 --> 00:54:07.320
She just came along at the beginning and went, did a bit of

1269
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:08.280
exposition, didn't she?

1270
00:54:08.340 --> 00:54:10.139
And then at the end she went, well, come on, let's go.

1271
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:11.820
That was her whole role in this episode.

1272
00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:12.599
How thankless?

1273
00:54:12.659 --> 00:54:16.739
I mean, she does, she, she does a few more kind of, I mean, telling

1274
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:17.280
you about the thing.

1275
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:19.440
Yeah, that is pretty shit, is that?

1276
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:23.880
Actually, I think Terry made a bit, maybe to play it fast.

1277
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:26.340
That shot is.

1278
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:27.659
She does have more.

1279
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:28.860
Terry, come on.

1280
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:30.900
Yeah, that was terrible.

1281
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:33.960
I don't think another $200,000 would have helped.

1282
00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:37.079
No, no, how would that have happened?

1283
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:43.260
Oh, and this is now when she slides down the wall in utter despair

1284
00:54:43.260 --> 00:54:44.400
and then we never mention it again.

1285
00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:45.900
Yeah, yeah.

1286
00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:47.880
So pure TNG.

1287
00:54:47.940 --> 00:54:49.440
Oh, we didn't do the cliches.

1288
00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:50.579
Can you quickly go through them now?

1289
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.039
Well, no, that was basically it.

1290
00:54:53.099 --> 00:54:56.519
It is an absolute Star Trek, the Next Generation romance, you know

1291
00:54:56.519 --> 00:55:00.539
that it is about the high concept rather than the romance that the

1292
00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:02.519
guys are creeping in a sort of way.

1293
00:55:02.579 --> 00:55:04.079
What about the masterpiece society?

1294
00:55:04.139 --> 00:55:08.280
We did sort of mention that, but again, that's another romance

1295
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:08.760
isn't it?

1296
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:11.039
Is there a romance episode?

1297
00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:13.920
Yeah, yeah, Troy, I've forgotten.

1298
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:14.880
Troy bangs that guy.

1299
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:18.000
They snorke in front of that dreadful window. you remember?

1300
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:18.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1301
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:20.880
Oh, Dax, don't worry.

1302
00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:21.719
Wharf's coming.

1303
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:25.679
Oh, for God's sake. 60 years or so.

1304
00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:26.519
Yeah.

1305
00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:28.679
That's super boring.

1306
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:34.559
And yet, the close-up she gets at the end of rejoined where she's

1307
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.500
trying to keep it together and she can't quite do it.

1308
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:39.239
It's so moving.

1309
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:43.920
Avery Brooks just zooms in very slowly on her face and it's all

1310
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:45.360
done with Terry Farrell, you know?

1311
00:55:46.139 --> 00:55:48.179
Yeah, yeah.

1312
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:48.900
Yeah.

1313
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:54.000
No, it's, I think it's just the romance is the problem, isn't it?

1314
00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:57.179
Well, just the general concept is boring.

1315
00:55:57.239 --> 00:56:01.440
I've tried to think of any single episode romances in DSI.

1316
00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:04.860
I know we've had this conversation before, but now, you know, it's

1317
00:56:04.860 --> 00:56:08.579
another time and I still can't think of any weather romance was.

1318
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:09.659
Do you remember Fenna?

1319
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:15.059
Do you have a fenna in 2nd sight, the mysterious woman in red. that

1320
00:56:15.059 --> 00:56:19.079
Cisco keeps seeing around the station, and then it turns out she's

1321
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:21.059
the, where go with this.

1322
00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:26.099
She's the lover of Professor Sayatik, this mad eccentric that's

1323
00:56:26.099 --> 00:56:27.539
going to ignite.

1324
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.360
He's there doing a scientific experiment as we tend to do in these

1325
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:31.320
romance episodes.

1326
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:36.119
And it turns out that Fenner that he's seeing is a projection of

1327
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:38.880
her anxieties because she's sort of beaten down in this

1328
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:39.420
relationship.

1329
00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:42.239
I mean, it's just terrible.

1330
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:44.099
The level I can't describe.

1331
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:51.840
But then, I don't know, after in series four, they barely do the

1332
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:53.460
single episode romances after that.

1333
00:56:53.699 --> 00:56:55.079
Yeah.

1334
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:58.320
I mean, I think it's a shame because as I said, I like romance.

1335
00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:03.480
And when we did, when we did all those episodes ago.

1336
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:09.539
When we did subrosa, I said that one of the things that it does is

1337
00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:14.699
it moves into areas that are domestic and that are traditionally

1338
00:57:14.699 --> 00:57:17.159
female concerns.

1339
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:23.400
And, um, I don't mean that it's doing it to appeal to women or

1340
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:24.000
anything like that.

1341
00:57:24.059 --> 00:57:29.820
What I mean is that it takes in and deals with some aspects of

1342
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:33.840
life that are kind of absent, say, from original track, and that

1343
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:36.960
have the potential to make the characters more rounded and

1344
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:41.460
interesting and increase the kind, you know, the range of stories

1345
00:57:41.460 --> 00:57:43.380
that the show can tell.

1346
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:47.519
But they just do it badly all the time, I think.

1347
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:49.079
And that's a problem.

1348
00:57:49.139 --> 00:57:51.659
In Kurtzman Trek.

1349
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:56.880
The assumption is that in the future, yeah. women and men do

1350
00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:01.260
exactly the same roles, they're as competent as each other, and

1351
00:58:01.260 --> 00:58:05.219
when they have romances, they're equally as adept at handling them

1352
00:58:05.219 --> 00:58:07.860
and that's the approach to take, right?

1353
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:09.179
Yeah.

1354
00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:14.699
I mean, this I, this kind of does that because, you know, you have

1355
00:58:14.699 --> 00:58:18.300
the sort of drag factor of the original casting of Star Trek, the

1356
00:58:18.300 --> 00:58:22.199
Next Generation, where you have women in traditionally caring

1357
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:22.679
roles.

1358
00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:27.780
I know that doctors are traditionally men, but, you know, it's a

1359
00:58:27.780 --> 00:58:31.199
caring role and Deanna's role.

1360
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:35.460
And then you've got kind of yeah, kind of going against height by

1361
00:58:35.460 --> 00:58:38.159
being security thing, but then she's very quickly not in the show

1362
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:38.639
anymore.

1363
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:42.300
And so the 2 female leads have these sort of traditional roles

1364
00:58:42.300 --> 00:58:42.659
here.

1365
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:47.940
You've got Kira, who is 2nd in command and you've got Dax, who is

1366
00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:49.679
science officer.

1367
00:58:49.739 --> 00:58:52.980
And so they're a bit less stereotyped.

1368
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:56.940
Like I don't think there's any indication in this episode.

1369
00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:00.300
For instance, that she was going to give up, you know, as you said

1370
00:59:00.300 --> 00:59:04.019
he was going to give up his life and stay with her and let the

1371
00:59:04.019 --> 00:59:07.800
planet kind of warp off into its other dimension for 60 years

1372
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:08.940
without him.

1373
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:12.840
So I don't think that the sexism of it's a problem.

1374
00:59:12.900 --> 00:59:17.760
But I do think that there's no real sense of what makes someone

1375
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:19.380
attractive here.

1376
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:22.380
Or what makes someone attractive to Dax.

1377
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.840
Why is Dax attracted to this man?

1378
00:59:24.900 --> 00:59:26.579
And if you're doing a romance?

1379
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:28.199
That's what's interesting, isn't it?

1380
00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:30.179
Like, it's got to be about the characters.

1381
00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:32.099
It can't be about the space anomaly.

1382
00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:34.619
And I think that that's the problem, why it doesn't work.

1383
00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:38.519
Where, and we talked about this, but where DS9 strengths lie, is

1384
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:41.760
long form storytelling and not really single episodes.

1385
00:59:41.820 --> 00:59:46.619
So doing a romance like this doesn't work, but say just putting

1386
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:50.760
something out of a hat, having Cisco and Cassidy's engagement and

1387
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:55.019
wedding threaded through the last 10 episodes of the series or

1388
00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:58.800
having Odo and Kira's relationship threaded through the 6 part arc

1389
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:01.559
at the beginning of series 6 where it looks like he's defecting to

1390
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:04.980
the Dominion and they're doing really interesting things with the

1391
01:00:04.980 --> 01:00:05.880
relationships.

1392
01:00:05.940 --> 01:00:08.699
Although, I mean, the payoff to that where they just go in a

1393
01:00:08.699 --> 01:00:10.079
cupboard in Dax's wedding.

1394
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:13.980
And just sort out their problems and then come out and go, well

1395
01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:15.480
we've sorted it, you know, wonderful.

1396
01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:19.559
But that's where DS9 thrives, isn't it?

1397
01:00:19.619 --> 01:00:23.340
By giving us a little bit at a time rather than doing it all in

1398
01:00:23.340 --> 01:00:23.760
one go.

1399
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:28.739
Can I throw one last quote at you from Renee Chivaria?

1400
01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:30.539
I think makes an interesting point.

1401
01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:33.840
He goes, I think it's Ira's sister is the one who said it seemed

1402
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:37.380
like an original series episode, and I'll take that as a

1403
01:00:37.380 --> 01:00:38.039
compliment.

1404
01:00:38.099 --> 01:00:39.960
On the original Star Trek.

1405
01:00:40.019 --> 01:00:43.739
They often ask the audience to accept a love story, a huge premise

1406
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:48.599
or a tragic separation, sometimes all 3 in a single episode.

1407
01:00:49.019 --> 01:00:54.840
I don't think that's untrue, but I think the original series would

1408
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:56.159
probably have done it better than this.

1409
01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:57.719
Yeah.

1410
01:00:57.780 --> 01:00:58.619
Yeah.

1411
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:00.480
I don't I don't know.

1412
01:01:00.539 --> 01:01:02.039
I like the idea.

1413
01:01:02.099 --> 01:01:03.599
Like, I get the idea.

1414
01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:07.920
A romance, high concept thing and a tragic separation.

1415
01:01:07.980 --> 01:01:11.880
I think that all of that has a potential to be really good, but I

1416
01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:14.159
just don't think they're interested in the romance at all.

1417
01:01:14.219 --> 01:01:19.320
And so there's nothing there and that needs to be the centre of it

1418
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:19.559
I think.

1419
01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:29.340
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1420
01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:31.079
find out where we're going next.

1421
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:35.099
You chose this one, Joe, so it's my turn.

1422
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:39.179
I would like to just say before you even tell us which series

1423
01:01:39.179 --> 01:01:40.019
you're going to choose.

1424
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:44.460
I did, in fact, want a truly dreadful episode of DS9.

1425
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:46.199
So I think I...

1426
01:01:46.260 --> 01:01:47.880
We should have made that point.

1427
01:01:47.940 --> 01:01:49.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1428
01:01:49.260 --> 01:01:52.739
And I think what we learn is that a truly dreadful episode of Deep

1429
01:01:52.739 --> 01:01:56.400
Space 9 isn't quite the atrocity that it might be in another

1430
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:58.679
series and that we can still have fun watching it.

1431
01:01:58.739 --> 01:02:00.480
We did laugh a lot, yes.

1432
01:02:00.539 --> 01:02:01.380
We did.

1433
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:08.880
So a thing has happened over the past few weeks, which is that 20

1434
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:15.239
episodes of Prodigy dropped on Netflix, which means that Prodigy

1435
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:18.000
is now our least covered series.

1436
01:02:18.059 --> 01:02:25.739
We have done 11.34% of the episodes of Enterprise.

1437
01:02:25.739 --> 01:02:30.420
And 12.31% of the episodes of Discovery.

1438
01:02:30.420 --> 01:02:31.920
Prodigy.

1439
01:02:31.980 --> 01:02:34.199
We've done 7.69%.

1440
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:36.059
And so that's 40 episodes.

1441
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:40.980
We make it 39 because the 1st episode was, you know, our long

1442
01:02:40.980 --> 01:02:41.280
one.

1443
01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:45.960
Um, and so I'm going to pick a prodigy one.

1444
01:02:46.019 --> 01:02:49.500
Now, I don't want to pick one from too late in the run because it

1445
01:02:49.500 --> 01:02:52.800
is super serialised, and I think it would be kind of

1446
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:57.659
incomprehensible, and I don't want to have to kind of watch...

1447
01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:00.840
Well, basically, to choose one up until the port you've watched

1448
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:01.139
it.

1449
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:02.699
Yeah, basically.

1450
01:03:02.820 --> 01:03:05.519
So let's see how we go.

1451
01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:08.699
Okay, we're not going to do this one.

1452
01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:12.539
Your random Star Trek prodigy episode is the Ascension part one

1453
01:03:12.539 --> 01:03:14.340
which is season two, episode 15.

1454
01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:17.639
Let's try another one.

1455
01:03:17.699 --> 01:03:18.960
Part one.

1456
01:03:19.019 --> 01:03:20.940
Hmm.

1457
01:03:21.059 --> 01:03:24.000
So this is Into the Breach part two.

1458
01:03:24.059 --> 01:03:26.219
I actually watched this today.

1459
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:31.199
That would mean that we'd have to watch Into the Breach part one

1460
01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:31.980
as well.

1461
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:33.480
That's our rule.

1462
01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:37.260
That would be season two, episodes one and two.

1463
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:42.360
So we would see the 2nd season start off.

1464
01:03:42.539 --> 01:03:44.519
Well, let's do that then.

1465
01:03:44.579 --> 01:03:45.239
Let's do that then.

1466
01:03:45.300 --> 01:03:49.739
I'm not sure that you've watched much of the 2nd half of series

1467
01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:53.639
one, which was sort of 10 episodes that dropped and kind of

1468
01:03:53.639 --> 01:03:56.519
changed the premise of the show quite a bit.

1469
01:03:56.579 --> 01:04:02.639
Although we did, I think, do we did do one of these.

1470
01:04:02.699 --> 01:04:04.139
One that was quite late.

1471
01:04:04.199 --> 01:04:04.619
Quite late.

1472
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:06.300
Things were starting to roll.

1473
01:04:06.360 --> 01:04:07.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1474
01:04:07.860 --> 01:04:10.800
And some new interesting things happen at the beginning of series

1475
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:15.659
2, which I quite liked, some, you know, new character development

1476
01:04:15.659 --> 01:04:20.280
things, and it is heading off into quite a complex plot, and that

1477
01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:26.639
is very serialised, but this is, I think this is a good

1478
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:29.760
introduction to the 2nd series.

1479
01:04:29.820 --> 01:04:30.780
Colam intrigue.

1480
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:32.639
Plus you love a series two, episode one.

1481
01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:37.380
I do. to see how that's a nice year is reformats itself in its 2nd

1482
01:04:37.380 --> 01:04:37.559
year.

1483
01:04:37.679 --> 01:04:38.159
Exactly.

1484
01:04:38.219 --> 01:04:40.980
And actually, it'd be quite interesting to just jump in not having

1485
01:04:40.980 --> 01:04:44.400
watched the tail end of series one, to see how well that does if

1486
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:46.500
somebody was just jumping in at the start.

1487
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:47.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1488
01:04:47.579 --> 01:04:49.380
Okay, yeah let's do it.

1489
01:04:56.699 --> 01:05:00.539
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1490
01:05:00.539 --> 01:05:04.619
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

1491
01:05:03.719 --> 01:05:07.320
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1492
01:05:07.320 --> 01:05:08.280
media accounts.

1493
01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:12.539
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisarin and the theme was composed

1494
01:05:12.539 --> 01:05:13.800
by Cameron Lamb.

1495
01:05:13.860 --> 01:05:18.599
This episode was recorded on the 16th of July, 2024, and released

1496
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:20.219
on the 26th of July.

1497
01:05:20.219 --> 01:05:24.119
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Prodigy into the breach part

1498
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:26.159
one and into the breach part two.

1499
01:05:41.219 --> 01:05:44.159
And I'll get my notes such as they are.

1500
01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:46.920
There's really nothing.

1501
01:05:46.980 --> 01:05:49.860
I'm hoping you can tell me something about brigadoo.

1502
01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:51.659
No, I really don't know anything about it at all.

1503
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:53.280
No, I don't either.

1504
01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:55.920
Let's look it up very quickly.

1505
01:06:01.980 --> 01:06:06.780
A musical, because there was a TV show called Schmigadoon recently

1506
01:06:06.780 --> 01:06:11.400
which was, it's by Lerner and Lowe, Mysterious Scottish Village

1507
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:14.760
that appears for one day every 100 years.

1508
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:18.420
How does that end?

1509
01:06:19.619 --> 01:06:21.900
Blah, blah, blah.

1510
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:25.320
Okay, I don't care.

1511
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:32.039
So essentially it's the same premise, yeah?

1512
01:06:32.099 --> 01:06:32.579
Like that.

1513
01:06:32.579 --> 01:06:33.059
Yeah.

1514
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:33.960
Yeah.

1515
01:06:34.619 --> 01:06:38.579
Yeah, they must be very excited by that, but I think it's a bit

1516
01:06:38.579 --> 01:06:38.940
shit.

1517
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:41.880
What's the other one?

1518
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:43.079
That was the idea, though.

1519
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:46.260
Wink of an eye.

1520
01:06:46.260 --> 01:06:47.340
Much better than this.

1521
01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:49.800
Wink of an eye, blink of an eye, wink of an eye.

1522
01:06:49.860 --> 01:06:52.199
Although interesting, I think they use the same picture you've got

1523
01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:55.440
behind you there. blink of an eye for one of the various stages of

1524
01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:55.860
that planet.

1525
01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:57.420
Oh, do they?

1526
01:06:57.480 --> 01:06:59.400
Is Blink of an eye the Voyager one?

1527
01:06:59.460 --> 01:07:03.420
Yeah, it's the one where forages in space, there's like a star and

1528
01:07:03.420 --> 01:07:08.699
they build like whole religions around it because time is...

1529
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:15.179
They do the same thing in the orval as well. can't remember that.

1530
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:19.139
And then there's an episode called Wink of an eye.

1531
01:07:19.199 --> 01:07:21.239
That's the original here, isn't it?

1532
01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:22.920
is original Trek.

1533
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:25.260
And what happens there?

1534
01:07:25.500 --> 01:07:28.320
Wink of an eye works best.

1535
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:32.340
If you don't try to use reasoning or logic.

1536
01:07:35.400 --> 01:07:37.679
That's Star Trek in general.

1537
01:07:38.460 --> 01:07:40.860
Oh, and that's the same thing.

1538
01:07:42.179 --> 01:07:44.880
Okay, all right, that's super boring.

1539
01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:52.559
Yeah, no, um, Orville does a great version of it, a really good

1540
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:53.159
one.

1541
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:55.199
I can't remember.

1542
01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:59.639
I don't remember too much. that being a god being made into a

1543
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:00.000
god.

1544
01:08:00.059 --> 01:08:03.059
And then the people from that planet appear again in the 3rd

1545
01:08:03.059 --> 01:08:06.059
series, which is a fucking brilliant series.

1546
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:07.619
Yeah, I haven't watched it.

1547
01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:08.280
I need to.

1548
01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:09.539
It's really great.

1549
01:08:09.659 --> 01:08:12.960
I watched it over a weekend and it's like 8 episodes, but they're

1550
01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:16.560
all like an hour and 20 minutes or an hour, 30 minutes long.

1551
01:08:16.619 --> 01:08:19.739
They're all like short movies and they're really good.

1552
01:08:19.739 --> 01:08:25.319
Like and the whole plot, the whole thing hangs together. they. good

1553
01:08:25.319 --> 01:08:25.920
reception really well.

1554
01:08:25.979 --> 01:08:26.699
I don't know.

1555
01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:28.079
I thought it was fucking great.

1556
01:08:28.140 --> 01:08:29.640
Like, it was a problem.

1557
01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:31.560
You used to have so much money from it.

1558
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:33.180
That 2nd series anyway.

1559
01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:38.279
The 3rd series looked brilliant and it picked up on all of these

1560
01:08:38.279 --> 01:08:41.520
threads from the previous series in a way that didn't, wasn't

1561
01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:44.279
annoying and yeah, just good.

1562
01:08:44.340 --> 01:08:48.300
Unlike this episode, which has stock colony set number 68.

1563
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:49.800
Yeah, number one.

1564
01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:54.180
Although, I do think this is the point where they have started to

1565
01:08:54.180 --> 01:08:54.960
learn how to lie.

1566
01:08:55.020 --> 01:08:57.659
You know, you said there was a point where they, do you not?

1567
01:08:57.779 --> 01:09:00.779
No, the inside was super boring.

1568
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:02.100
Oh, yeah.

1569
01:09:02.100 --> 01:09:03.960
Disagree.

1570
01:09:04.380 --> 01:09:06.359
Yeah, it's okay.

1571
01:09:06.420 --> 01:09:07.739
But it's not the inner light.

1572
01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:10.560
Because where they...

1573
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:15.000
I just remember that for a test makeup that Patrick Stuart's to

1574
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:15.659
wear on Patrick.

1575
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:16.979
That's what he looks like now.

1576
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:19.260
No, that's not true.

1577
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:24.659
His face would have to be out here.

1578
01:09:26.460 --> 01:09:28.439
Oh god.

1579
01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:33.300
All right, all right, all right, right, right, right, right, right

1580
01:09:33.300 --> 01:09:33.539
right.

1581
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:34.020
Okay.

1582
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:35.340
And it's my choice at the end.

1583
01:09:37.140 --> 01:09:40.500
Yeah, let's have something good after this pair, right?

1584
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:42.539
That's how it Dixon.

1585
01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:44.699
Don't choose our best.

1586
01:09:46.020 --> 01:09:47.460
Okay.

1587
01:09:47.699 --> 01:09:49.319
Here goes.

1588
01:09:50.100 --> 01:09:53.399
Hey, Joe. Hi.