Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are against all sensible advice heading back into series
one of Star Trek the Next Generation this week, and not just
series one of Star Trek the Next Generation, but an episode that
is very widely disliked, and it's Angel one.
It's written by Patrick Barry, who never does another Star Trek
episode and directed by Michael Rhodes, who also never does
another Star Trek episode.
This is the one example of their work.
Yeah?
This is like the only example of their work that we're ever going
to see. this podcast.
Very unsurprising reason.
So what did you think of this one?
You say it's widely disliked by a lot of people, including me.
Oh, God.
How did they ever recover from this season?
As each scene was playing out, I was like, do you know what, I
just discovered today, Nation, that William Shatner's been at it
again, it's on another Star Trek documentary series on Amazon
Prime.
No, this one's called Chaos on the Bridge.
And he's got together all the creatives of series one and 2 of
Star Trek, the Next Generation.
And it's all about the power struggles that were going on.
Gene Robinbury trying to put his vision in, the studio exits
trying to get their vision in, and why, uh, frankly, I should have
watched it before.
I was talking.
I sure we'll come back to one or 2 at some point. looks pretty
amazing.
Um, and I think that documentary.
We'll probably explain why Angel one is quite as appalling as it
is.
Now, you said to me in a chat that you thought this was quite
interesting.
Well, I don't think it's an interesting episode.
I think it's kind of mostly boring.
I think there are 2 twists that are pretty good.
I didn't see coming.
Yeah, I think so.
Um, so it's sort of functional in a way that's a manhunt is, like
it is actually an episode of TV with a beginning, a middle, and an
end.
But I think it exposes.
I think the reason that it's interesting, I love the end, it's
over after that.
I mean, you've said, out of beginning, a middle of an end, like
most stories should.
Bravo, Angel one.
Well, yeah, but this era of Star Trek doesn't always manage that.
That's right.
We've watched a few, haven't we?
all middle.
Yeah, yeah.
So, you know, like, in some ways, it's a functional bit of drama
but I think the reason that it's interesting is that it exposes a
problem with the way that Star Trek deals with social issues.
And, well, all hair.
No, very frequently.
And the most serious analogue, I think, is probably the outcast
which will roll at some point.
I think it's sort of important for the history of Star Trek.
But what goes wrong in the outcast is what goes wrong here.
I think you'll be quite angry when we do the outcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I like it as a kid because it, well, as a young man because I felt
like this is about gay people and I'm one of those and I don't see
that on TV very much and that's interesting that my show is doing
it and it's doing it in a way that's generally supportive.
But I think it's doing it in a way that's actually really very
bad.
And that's what's happening here too, because they can't do, um
they can't do sort of gender inequality.
They can't do, you know, the oppression of one group of people by
another group of people in any kind of wholehearted and proper
way.
And so what they do is they do it in a sort of science fiction way
and they abstract it from its history.
And in a B movie way.
And we'll get there as well.
I mean, it's clear.
I think that this episode isn't here particularly to say anything
interesting about patriarchy or chauvinism or anything.
I think it's here because Roddenbury's really horny and, you know
like he wants to have big women, you know, like it's the planet of
large women that you can have sex with and isn't that hot, you
know, we've done that already with justice, right?
Yeah, well, I thought it was less social commentary, more like, oh
aren't we brave?
We've done a female dominated society, and they think that's
enough that they've just done it without saying anything about it
at all.
No, and the resolution has really nothing to say about, you know
feminism and nothing to say about patriarchy and nothing to say
about sort of gender politics that's in any way interesting.
And in fact, by flipping the genders, by making it, the women who
are the oppressors instead of the man, what we really get is a
kind of, you know, bitches be crazy, you know, like the women are
super unreasonable because that's what women are like.
You know, the 2 the 2 head bitches, Mistress Mealsa.
And what's the other woman's name with the big Ariel?
And Ariel was it.
Oh, wow.
I was hoping that I was going to have a massive bitch fight
somewhere in the episode and it ends.
It never happened.
I thought it was going to be, you know, like pulling hair handbags
at dawn sort of thing, you know.
But no, nothing.
So do you know what I mean?
The fact that Bayard is oppressive and wants to repress and
execute the man, the wayward man who won't conform to their proper
gender stereotypes.
That isn't, you know, some systemic thing or some sort of giant
problem thing.
It's just women are really super unreasonable and just look at
Bayata being like this.
So it actually is misogynist.
I think, um, while ostensibly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, trying to be about gender equality.
And also, I think the assumption that the people on board the
Enterprise are great heralds of gender equality is pretty rough
given that of the 8 main cast members, 2 of them are women or 3 of
them are women, aren't they?
Because we've still got Dasha at this point.
But the highlights still are Riker, even though they're down on
the back.
Exactly.
That's exactly right.
You should be like, no, go away, Riker.
We're going to only deal with Troy.
We're going to give them something to do this week, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right.
Troy doesn't get to make the speech at the end.
It's Riker who gets to make the speech, you know, like, and the
speech is so empty of any content.
Do you remember justice?
They have a habit of doing these empty speeches at the end of the
episode.
But all I, like, just compare it to the speech that Captain Pike
gives in the 1st episode of Strange New Worlds.
He gives a big lecture to the alien society and it lands.
That's right.
It's a properly good speech, whereas this is terrible.
And so, so I think that's a problem.
I think the problem is that by making it space patriarchy or space
matriarchy, it really takes anything interesting away from it.
It has nothing really to comment on.
Um, and so it just ends up being a bit crap, I think.
I was so annoyed at the end because Mistress Ariel.
Oh man, I'm so glad to say that.
I'm not going to say it throughout the whole episode.
It's just Ariel.
She does sort of want to be told what to do by a man, doesn't
she?
She sort of found that.
So that's icky.
And then Mistress Bearta.
Oh, mistress is so wonderful.
Mistress Bearta is absolutely obsessed with Commander Riker
because he's a man in a position of authority.
So when they go to bed together, she's like, oh, I'm so pleased to
meet a man who knows what he wants.
So she's utterly beguiled by it as well.
Yeah, that's a real woman power. going on here.
No, no, no.
That's right.
The moment one of our men come along.
Do you know what I mean?
to fuck some sense into me, it's just they are, you know, like
it's so bad.
I mean, it really is super offensive.
I have to say, though, in terms of, so recently, you and I did
assignment Earth, and we said it perfectly encapsulated the 60s
visually, you know?
that fabulous style.
Well, Enter Angel one, which encapsulates the 80s.
Perfect, the hair, the clothes, everything.
It is pure 1980s.
And may I say how bold it was for Bonnie Tyler to take a role on
Star Trek for this generation as Mistress B.R. said.
I mean, the hair is incredible.
The thing I love about the altar is like she has a habit of doing
what I wish I could get away with in life, but don't.
And that is before she makes a dramatic proclamation about
something.
She sort of stands up, goes across the room and then sort of
switches her head around and then she makes it.
She's all about being the big presence in the room.
I think it's a really quite bad performance, but man, I couldn't
take my eyes off her.
Well, look, I think there's heaps of incidental sexism and
appalling behaviour that we haven't even touched on.
So let's go in and deal with it as it turns out.
The most enlightened show on television series one of the next
generation and it's flaunting sexism, racism.
Homophobia in every direction.
Just shockingly bad.
Let's be ill-educated then, shall we?
Okay, let's do it.
I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
No, for that shot of the Enterprise.
Little preamble there.
We didn't even mention the flu subplot.
Oh my god.
I have a way to kind of make that work, but it would still be very
bad, I think.
I think they all know it's just an irrelevant subplot, you know
they're all just like, well, we're doing our bit this week.
Although Nathan, what's that smell around you?
That's right.
It's kind of... like a Klingon perfume.
Oh, data, will you set up, please?
You're gonna do your backing.
Yeah, I know.
I think I think there are some actual little funny moments here
too, that almost land that almost land.
That's fashion is what it is. showing it?
Yeah, almost lands.
Yeah.
I did ask you earlier on the chat, whether you thought Denise
Crosby was ever truly comfortable in the skin of Tashi Yar, because
I'm not sure she ever was.
So, see this where, where data gives the complete thing down to
the 2nd and Riker goes, thank you, data, in the middle of it, and
he just goes, fuck you, I'm finishing it, and he just keeps
going.
It's really great.
There is something about Denise's performance where she's holding
back. something, like when you say she's uncomfortable.
Like, There's something, I can see what it is about her
performance that you're identifying, but I'm just not very good at
talking about an actor's performances.
There is something there that I can identify.
You know, like I know what you're saying.
I don't want to be here, but I'm going to do this because I'm
being paid.
Well, yeah, but you know, you can probably get that from Patrick
Stewart, actually, in this episode, to be frank.
For the 1st 2 seasons, yeah.
No, but I don't get it from Marina Surtis.
No, even though she's not very...
No, she's terrible.
But I feel like she's here for the long run, you know?
Whereas I don't feel like Tachiaris.
Yes.
Yeah, there was a there was a few jokes flying about this 1st
scene here.
Yeah, yeah. didn't think were very funny at all.
It wasn't sort of forager band, so I wasn't truly ghastly.
No, I don't know.
I mean, already this situation is ridiculous because it's a planet
run by women and that's kind of ridiculous, but I do like that
Deanna says, oh, that's like my planet at home.
I thought that was good.
Do you know what I mean?
That normalises it.
Maybe it means that there are other matriarchies as well.
How long has it been since these people have gone missing?
Seven years?
So and what, they're looking for them now?
Apparently.
Oh, yeah.
Do you remember those people that went missing 7?
We better send someone after.
And then the whole 1st 3rd of the episode is Mistress Biala going
hmm, maybe I'll tell you about them.
Maybe I won't.
And we do that like twice, I think.
Ah dear.
Yeah, so in terms of sort of like an opening premise.
It's not the most enticing, is it?
No.
It's a dreadful episode, but I'm not sure if it's in the future or
in the past.
I think it's in the future.
When the bowel breaks, which is a ghastly episode.
But it does open with the magical planet of Aldea uncloaking in
front of them, you know, and it's like, ooh, what's this?
You know.
But I mean, I guess this is just kind of telling us what sort of
things that we can do still, you know, this is midway through
season one.
We still kind of seeing what sort of missions we're on.
And here there's another mission coming up, which is a thing in
the neutral zone.
This is our 1st mention of the Romulans in Star Trek, the next
generation.
I'd forgotten how much they see did that, actually.
Because there's a few mentions on the lead up to the last
episode.
But then they don't do anything with the Romulans at all, really
do they?
No.
Well, not until series five.
I think they do eventually do things with wrong.
And, you know, like there are some good episodes.
What's the one with, um, what's a face from Quantum Leap?
Um, Carolyn Seymour.
So not just face of the anime before that.
The one with the Atonian Gateway.
Oh, yeah, there's a...
Oh, the line's high with Jordan.
We talk about that one quite a lot.
Yeah.
So I think the Romulans do eventually land.
I think they're quite good adversaries now that the Klingons are
our allies.
It's quite a nice planet, you know.
Clearly they've got lots of lush foliage on angel one.
Well, that's just the new thing though.
That's the new special effect.
Where's the Crusher and his little mate?
They're off, they're going skiing.
Is that appropriate skiing gear, really?
It's space skiing gear.
Holy crap.
That's so shit, isn't it?
Like they go in there.
It's a backdrop, a photographic backdrop.
An incredibly shit kind of like attempt at some snow on the
ground.
They immediately run in there and start throwing the sawdust at
each other or whatever.
They call it is.
They can't sort of move more than 2 metres.
No, no, it's tiny.
Yeah, yeah. tiny, tiny sand.
Oh dude.
You know, when they come out later and they throw that snowboard
Captain Picard, when it hits him.
Yeah.
Well, I thought things couldn't exist outside the holodeck.
Well, they can for a little while.
It's replicated, remember?
It's just replicated.
Okay, yeah, fair.
Oh, here we go. the little twink on the left with the long black
hair.
He's cute.
See him?
think he's cute.
Trent can just fuck off though.
I hate Trent.
You've got some serious issues with this man.
I do.
So pretty guy with the long black hair who's in this shot.
Now there's Trent in the other shot.
Little whipping boy.
Yeah, little whipping point.
Now, Trent actually does reappear in, he's in a Voyager episode
but he is also famously Lal on the holodeck in the offspring.
You can see it, can't you?
Yep, you can.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, when he's when he's just sort of like the robot version.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, he hasn't chosen his gender or species yet.
Who was he, Voyager?
Oh, I don't know.
Okay, some asshole.
I'm in and out of these shows, don't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love all of the, um, the sticky out shoulder pads that
everybody's got.
I've not seen such dramatic clothing since the Horns of Naimon
from Doctor Who.
So the women are meant to be vegan strong, but they have the
skinniest arms ever.
And those outfits, make their arms look even skinnier.
She's got her...
Yeah, look, I am a bit distracted by that guy, I have to say.
Oh, no, please tell me you don't like those outfits that they're
wearing.
No, no, no, I think they're cute.
With the one flap that opens, it exposes part of the chest.
Yeah, nipple.
Yeah, no, they're just a little bit.
Well, I think Trent, because he's so completely hairless, is
actually a little bit off putting.
He doesn't do anything for me at all.
I think he was sexier as well.
I don't know about this. guy.
Oh, Mistress Bearta.
Your hair is incredible.
So amazing.
I feel like she could be in like a Timothée advert or something
like that, you know, because she's worth it.
Oh, there is a wonderful moment because when they put they force
Riker into one of these garbs, yeah, with the flap open exposing
his chest.
But clearly, like Jonathan Frakes has gone, well, look, make me
look really muscly.
So give me one that's a bit too small.
So all my chest is bursting out of this thing.
The 2nd Denise Crosby and Marina Surtis see him in it, they both
piss themselves laughing, don't they?
I will talk about that because that's a very formative moment for
me that...
Yeah, I'm afraid so.
Is he still your type now?
No, not at all, but I do like a hairy chest and when I was young
and closeted and that was really quite a striking image as far as
I was concerned.
It's just a lot, doesn't it?
You was looking at Riker and young me was looking at Wesley
Crusher. that's right.
It's an age different.
Why say sorry about our taste now as well, you know?
Oh, bloody hell.
Back to the Enterprise.
Has anyone got the flu??
Oh no, this is a bit weird.
No, this is where the snowball comes in.
The flu happens.
See, I think Worf is kind of funny in this.
There's a moment in the very 1st scene.
Oh, here we go.
Yep.
So he's the snow hit.
Little mate, doesn't even get a line.
No, no, no, no, his little mates not being paid to say anything.
He's not even being paid to look...
You notice how, there's one or two.
They love getting stuff all over Picard's uniform.
Do you remember Sonya Naff and the hot chocolate?
Lucioneff playing Sonya Gomez?
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Sonya Nap.
Sonia and F. Oh, there's a she's back now, Dex, you know, Captain
Gomez writes you about it.
The bit where they get in the turbo lift and the 2 of them just
stare out waiting for the door to shut.
It's just everything about it, the way it's acted, the way it's
directed.
It's so robotic.
Watch them.
Yeah, yeah.
They don't even look at each other.
They don't even talk...
Will's not having a facial expression.
So this stuff is stupid, isn't it?
Like why Data hasn't heard of perfume and doesn't know the word
aphrodisiac?
Do you know what I mean?
Like, what is that?
Like, that's always had a database of all human intellects in his
head.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, I can just about get, you know, understand that he might not
know slang or something, but how does he not know a word like
aphrodisiac?
God.
Afridiziac is used to stimulate and enhold sexual pleasure.
See, this is all this horny roddenberry shit as well. which just
is so like look at the way they're looking at each other.
Trent, fuck off.
Go away.
And then he comes in and starts spraying the perfume on himself
for some reason.
Is that to show that the men are a bit feminine in this world?
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
I think so.
There are better ways of doing that, sort of more subtle ways.
Yeah.
Oh, can we talk about this backdrop out the window, please?
Oh my god.
Yeah, aren't there rocks out the window?
We're in a city.
In a city.
We've seen them at painting.
I've ever seen.
Awful.
Oh my god, you can actually see Riker's chest hair sort of
bursting out his uniform there.
It's good, isn't it?
He's all man, Nathan.
He is.
Oh, yeah, like in these trees.
It's so bad isn't it?
Like, you know, you could go to a, a, like, couldn't you just go
to an office block or a hotel or something?
Do you remember an enterprise where they go to that miserable
cheap conference room in that sort of crappy holiday inn in order
to, you know, for the final 2nd or the 2nd last episode?
At least they're outside.
This is so terrible.
Can I just please watch Mrs. Bearta and how she tosses her head
with every line?
Her hair sort of moves dramatically, but she's drunk on power, this
woman.
With that skinny armed woman.
What is it?
I'll do the line for a far beyond the scars.
Her arms may be skinny, but her hair is art.
I mean, I think the shampoo supplies on Angel one must be through
the roof, you know.
They must have to have it all shipped in.
Yeah, yeah, but look at the guards.
The guards, women aren't wearing makeup and they don't have
massive 80s hair.
You know, they've just got slicked back hair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the guy.
They told it gay, because they're in, you know, oh, okay, they're
like lesbians.
Yeah.
Oh, here's Kate, the fact you can see now, Maurice Hurley's
watching the Russians coming in at this episode going, now, get
rid of her in series two.
I mean, she's not great in this, is she?
Well, no.
But you know, look at the material.
I think I think what might have sold this is, and it may be the
original idea is that they've never had the cold before.
They've never had a cold.
You know, the cold, the common cold has been cured because it's
the 21st century.
No one ever gets respiratory viruses anymore.
And so we see the ship laid low by the common cold.
And that's at least a hook to give that plot something, but it's
still just shit.
You know, like a number of episodes where people are sick.
Oh yeah, yeah, but that doesn't matter.
This is just in this context. you know what I mean?
We're learning what the 24th century is like in this season.
It's one of the things they do.
It's one of the reasons why they waste time on stuff that you
would never waste time on, you know, in a later episode.
But you can't win with it because you can't play, well, everyone
on Earth Price gets as cold as drama, which is what they try and
do.
Yeah, it's dismal.
But then you can't sort of underplay it because it's like, well
then what are we doing?
But you play it for comedy.
So you have sneezing wharf and you have everyone kind of shitty at
their job because they've got a cold.
Yeah, like sneezes are so loud, they reverberate around the ship.
Well, you know that's nearly a joke.
That's approaching a joke.
It's closest to a joke that this episode gets.
It's certainly much better than the crap joke at the end, which is
so bad.
There was one wonderful bit, you know, where La Forge sat in the
command share for the 1st time and looked so proud that he was
there.
I did like that.
I love that.
The music is really good.
And then Worf later, when Worf says, no, no, don't go to
engineering and fix the thing, other people can do that.
You stay here.
And Worf appreciates it.
All right, all right.
So this scene is offensive because the women laugh at him dressing
in a gender non-conforming way.
And he doesn't give a shit because he's a man and he's secure in
his sexuality.
He's quite happy to wear this.
He doesn't think it's any different from wearing feathers on
Armist 9 or whatever.
Armist 9 as well.
Like, I don't know what that is.
Are you sure it's because it's a non-conformist gender costume or
just a fucking ridiculous costume?
No, no, either.
Look at what they're wearing.
Look at what Troy's wearing.
She's hardly in a position.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, it's not that they object ridiculous clothes.
He does look stupid though.
Oh, no, no.
Yeah.
Look, he does he does a bit, but I do think that they're laughing
at him because he's not, you know, not being gender conforming.
And I think that's sort of means what you would ever do in the
room.
Exactly right.
He's a grown-up about it.
He's not being a dickhead about it.
Oh, he says me?
I wore feathers on that other planet and you didn't laugh at me
then.
Armist nine.
Yeah, I noticed that.
They must have had the word arm was flying around the office
somewhere.
Yeah.
Oh, this scene between James McFadden and Patrick Stewart.
I think I sent you the clip where she's like, you are not able to
work, Jean-Bu.
You are sick.
Please go to bed.
He's like, doctor, I've got a ship to run.
I'm like, when I said to you earlier, how did they ever recover
from this?
It seems like that.
Well, I'm like, what, what are they doing?
What are they trying to do?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's the only thing I can imagine is that the thing is the
ships brought low by a common cold and that's not, you know, that's
something that we wouldn't care about.
That's what a great story, is it?
No, it's not great, but it's certainly better than this.
Like, there seems to be no reason for this at all.
Oh, look, LeVar, he's probably...
Wolf giving him the advice as well.
Geordie, nice. you know, there's other people that can do that for
you now.
You're in charge.
I think it's really good.
Oh, God almighty.
See, I'm laughing now.
No, he's nothing for me.
I'm afraid.
No, no, he doesn't do anything for me even now, but like now, no.
But at the time, like, that is one hell of a good hairy chest, I
have to say.
If that was Avery Brooks right now.
Now, you might be talking.
Okay?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, he doesn't do anything for me particularly.
I mean, but I do think he's a lovely man and like, yeah, like they
come off as just looking stupid and trivial.
Do you know what I mean?
The women.
And that's...
That's all he's bad on the actresses, but it's nothing to do with
them.
It's just this terrible script.
No, but this is just like women are crap.
Do you know what I mean?
Women are stupid.
He's noble and self-assured and stuff and they're being trivial
and laughing at his clothes.
I just think that makes them look stupid.
Oh my god.
You had your opportunity to object to Ariel.
You were in the minority.
It's like listen to Shakespeare, isn't it?
That ear thing is bad.
I have to say the ear thing that Riker is wearing is very bad.
It's a bit like their Bajoran earring, isn't it?
Yeah, but crapper though.
Look at it.
Actually, now I'm looking at it more closely.
You know, that's sort of silks and that.
They're quite rich, aren't they?
I don't think it's terrible.
I think it's all right.
Oh, it's just the way its chest is out.
Yeah, yeah, it's all right. run your hands through that.
That's okay.
It's always, it's certainly in series one and two.
They tone it down from 3 onwards.
He's always exerting his masculinity, isn't he?
In every scene.
Every posture.
He carries himself.
Yeah.
I wondered, you know, if they weren't a little bit jealous, Troy
and Y'all, in this.
I thought they were doing a bit of that when they're mocking him.
Because there's another episode.
There's another episode where he fucks somebody and y'all gets a
bit a bit off about it.
Well, in fact, he even calls him on it, doesn't he?
Is this is the issue that it's Mistress Beardo and she's a
beautiful woman?
You know, is that the is that the problem that you have?
They should have said, no, you just look really silly.
I don't know There is a way they could have laughed and it could
have worked.
But you're right.
Yeah, they could have.
Yeah, it just seems petty, you know.
Okay, so, uh, Yar and Troy now are going to be doing the
investigations because Mrs. Bearta says, you know, are your women
incapable of carrying out the investigation without you, whilst I
bonk you senseless?
Yeah, no, but he's made the point.
He said we're equal.
And of course, as we've seen, you know, the gender politics on
board the Enterprise, like terrible.
Nathan, you've got to watch this whip pan now around the set.
It's so bad.
Watch the camera move around.
Ready?
Oh, that is bad.
That's really terrible.
And who's this fucking MacGyver ass looking bastard. like Richard
Dean Anderson, doesn't it?
It does.
It's so bad.
He's so hideous.
So this is his only Star Trek as well, but he has a long history
of being in literally everything ever in 80s television.
See, then... she wrote.
I'm sure he did.
He probably did.
He did some moonlighting and stuff.
Diagnosis murder, all of them, the daytime TV shows.
So why does he want to stay because he's falling in love with
Mistress Ariel?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is she mistress Ariel or just Ariel?
I don't know. don't know.
Just to give her some respect.
Yeah, I think.
Okay, she's his best Biata.
He's in a situation of peril, is he?
Or are they just being left to stay in the cave?
So they're high.
Why am I asking these questions?
So they're hiding out because they've clearly fallen foul of the
authorities because they've started advocating for men's rights.
And so they've gone into hiding and aerial has a secret
relationship with fucking MacGyver.
Um, and, um, and so she sneaks out and sees him and stuff.
So that's where they're hiding.
They kind of political refugees and stuff.
But, but, you know, they don't know where they are.
That's the thing.
That Bayata doesn't know where they are, so can't get hold of
them.
And for me, I think the twist was that when we arrive, they say we
don't want to go.
Do you know what I mean?
We just assume, of course, that they want to go, but they've put
down roots and that's a surprise.
And it's supposed to be a twist as well, that Vicious Ariel's in a
relationship with one of them.
Yeah, that's much more boring.
That's been signposted quite a bit.
It goes it goes somewhere a bit different.
It's kind of like, no, we don't want to go, and it turns out that
you can do nothing to make us go.
And I think that's kind of interesting.
That was a surprise.
And then when they come back and say, look, sorry, we can't take
them.
We said we would, but we didn't realise that they would want to
stay.
She says, all right, well, I'm going to execute them.
And that was a surprise as well.
Like, I thought both of those were decent twists in what is a
pretty mean.
We got know these people.
No, we don't.
There's no impact on anything.
Like why is any of this relevant to anything at all?
What is it telling us about our regular characters?
You know, what are we learning about anybody in this?
No, no, no, but that's not what this show is doing.
It's about how he's the mission going.
Yeah, but then not doing it yet.
And they're still mostly about what the mission is.
Like how does the mission go?
So these are too surprising obstacles for our mission, I guess.
What a very nice sort of flowery mandala on the...
Yeah.
Did you notice the sort of crystal lamp in the caves as well?
It was a bit out of place, sort of hanging down from stone.
There we go.
She's got a very small room given she's sort of leader of this
huge grand world.
Just a tiny, tiny corner of the studio.
It's like you say, it's like some dreary old back alley travel
lodge.
It really?
It's smaller than that.
Like, yeah, yeah.
To be fair, I should, I should, you know, um, I should be able to
appreciate these scenes because I've spent a few times, you know
in back alley travel lodges having it off with.
I mean, I always find it's really odd though. really really odd.
I found it odd with Kirk.
I find it odd with Riker that even though I know she wants to fuck
she wants to be fucked, Mistress Bearta, that these people can go
on these missions and just beam down and have sex with the leaders
of the planets.
But even... is that how Ambassador will... duties happen on this
planet.
Like, people get to do it.
Captain Pike does it in series, one of Strange New Worlds, in one
of the episodes that you haven't seen, Lift Us, where Suffering
cannot reach, or whatever it's called, which is a really good
episode, and he has a lead of a planet that he fucks as well
relations might be there might be some sort of issues there.
Well they do talk about that.
They actually do talk about that.
I actually love that line.
I have to say, will you respect me in the morning?
She goes, yes, I hope so.
Oh, Trent, fuck off, honestly, what are you doing?
Well, no, I don't get this. because...
It looks like they're about to have it off.
He walks in handsome this.
They play with it for a bit and then they have it off anyway.
It's just killing time this, isn't it?
This is what is this important?
he's jealous.
Maybe he does look a little bit downcast, doesn't he?
I don't know what that is.
Crystal.
No, that's a very expensive prop.
They put a light bulb in it.
She's super impressed.
This is the sort of thing my other raft takes to piss out all the
time.
I could just see him now going, oh, thank you, Commander Rikerfel
this amazing gift that you brought to our planet.
That's right.
Very impressive.
Look, it lines up.
Now I'm going to repay.
I must repay.
But what does that mean, in kind?
She's going to give him a crystal?
What's happening?
Very chaste kiss as well, isn't it?
You know?
No, she was properly getting, like, rubbing his, um, rubbing his
chest. yeah.
Yeah, well, you would, wouldn't you?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Shut up, Richard Dean Anderson, you fucking asshole.
What's happening?
My point is, okay, is that when you have sex with somebody?
The relationship changes a lot.
You know, this is this is the 24th century and it's post-jealousy
just horny sex.
It's uh, that's that's the thing.
Well, I think that this is the absolute motivation.
It is, you know, sex with large women.
And like Mr. Ramsey actually says, you know, the women I hear are
beautiful and strong and sexy and stuff and that was really great
for a while and then they started not giving me the vote and, you
know, telling me to shut up.
And that was terrible and I couldn't tolerate that.
You know, um, And all of that political stuff is just this sort of
weird background to the fact that it's the planet where you get to
have sex with Mistress Bayata, essentially.
Geo, isn't it?
isn't that icky?
Yeah, it is icky.
So this, there, TV tropes has a name for the trope where you go to
a planet and it's run by women.
Is there something called TV troops?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. take it on.com.
It's actually a thing. it's worth looking at.
What was it called?
It's called Ladyland.
We do too many ladylands, do we, in Star Trek?
There's a few Star Trek.
But it is a sort of thing that happens and it almost always is
about how crazy women are.
It's not about how gender.
It's that's because the proper kind of gender inequality is when
men tell women what to do.
That's normal and not crazy, but when women are telling men what
to do, you know, that's terrible and outrageous.
And that's what the outcast does as well.
Remember?
The outcast is, it's a planet where heterosexuality is forbidden
and it's enforced by a, a large group of humourless lesbians who
persecute the hapless straight people, and that's our pro-gay
message episode of Star Trek, the next generation.
It's terrible.
Well, you know, recently we did far beyond the stars, which was
all about a writer in the 50s, dreaming of a better future, where
you know, black people get to be in positions of power and space.
And here we are in 1987 in Star Trek, the Next Generation, dreaming
of a future where women might actually be in charge.
I mean, it's...
So that's the thing, though.
Do you know what I mean?
Like you can do a, you can do a kind of allegory of racism.
You can do something like that, let that be your last battlefield
um The strategism of racism.
Oh, yeah, this is racism.
Do they do they ever do it well?
Yeah, yeah, turn that intro is great.
Shut up.
No, but like what happens is this no longer is an issue, is it?
Now, in Kurtzman Trek, because women are just equals and hugely
competent and fabulous, you know?
Well, in fact, in fact, still, I think Strange New Worlds is the
1st Star Trek series to have more women than men in the opening
titles.
You know, but it's still run by, you know, like 2 men.
Oh, well, Una's the 2nd in command, but you've got Spock and
Pike.
It's worth noting, you know, when Doctor Who threatens to Planet
of the Women in Prison in Space and Mission to Magnus, both times
they were cut short.
Because, yeah, yeah, we know enough about what those would have
been like and they would have been horrific.
Trent, can you fuck off?
Get out.
Honestly, every time.
I always find it very strange.
This is going to sound awful when very short people are sort of
muscled like that.
I think that's cute, but I don't think trend is cute though.
No, trend is not cute.
I'm not really sure there's anyone too cute in this.
Well, Tasha's pretty cute, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I could put that hairy chest away.
No, I'm watching it.
Shut up.
I'm watching the heritage.
I love how flakes are so unfazed by all of them.
But that's actually, that's, I look amazing.
Why shouldn't everyone see me?
But that's it.
I think, you know, the bits of Riker that are freaks, you know, the
things that we love about Riker that are also the things that we
love about our parasocial relationship with John Frakes.
I think it works. way better when they tone that avert masculinity
down.
And he's charming.
He's so much more attractive when he's charming.
I think Stuart has said, if Jonathan could get his shirt...
I'm sorry, I'm going to get lied out in this episode.
He's been working out.
What's your excuse Well, I mean, I mean, to be fair, Nathan, I'll
be happy with a body like that. don't get me wrong Patrick
Stewart's about your age, I think. in this episode.
By the time we get to 1st contact, you know, when he's topless.
And he's hanging from the ceiling. looks fantastic.
They've got him a personal trainer by that for him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, he's shredded.
But you know what?
You see how I can't believe we're having this conversation.
You see how his chest hair?
It's sort of dark, but then it's got sort of like the white just
on the top there.
I think that's really quite sexy, you know.
You know, just sort of touch of what?
Why are you looking down at your chest there, right?
that's what I'm rocking under this hoodie.
Maybe we shouldn't meet again, you know.
Next time we won't be watching justice.
Actually, that's why nothing happened when you was here.
We was watching Rodden bree's sex episode.
That's right.
The most unhorny sex episodes that you could possibly imagine. and
Ephonesiacs.
Oh, dude.
Somehow, Zoo, we was going to end up talking about Chester.
Say that, you know, where he waves his hand and says you are
excused, doctor, and he's completely kind of laid low by this.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, if they were a better show and they had more control, clearly
that's meant to be the comedy subplot.
Don't you think?
Am I wrong?
But is it, it's not very funny though, is it?
No, that's a problem.
That's how it is so happy.
It is hampered a bit by the fact that it's not very funny, but
they are trying for it.
They just sort of learn to be funny, I think, later on, you know
goddess of empathy, that sort of thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or disaster.
We really enjoyed disaster and thought... when they finally let
their hair down and go, do you know what?
We can relax and just, you know, put something a bit absurd on the
screen.
Having a cold is not absurd.
Yeah, but what it's the fish out of water thing, the fact that
they can't cope with having a cold because they're from a future
uh, socialist utopia where the common cold and respiratory
illnesses have been eliminated, you see, that would be fun.
At least when DS9 did its virus episode in series one, it was at
it was at a phaseic virus episode where everyone taught bollocks
you know, nobody could understand each other.
And then all knew.
No, no, but all you had left was Odo and Quark running the whole
station.
And that was funny.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, oh, here he is.
Here he is.
Recap your ways, MacGyver, your evil sexist ways.
That's right.
I'm glad the police have apparently beating him up, though.
I've not had a good look at these police women.
Hang on, I need to see.
No, they're men, look.
They're not women.
No, there, no, those, some of those guys are men, but they're, he's
they're Ramsey's evil men from the eyes. ocean.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's looking surly.
Yeah.
Oh, God, look at, look at her.
What did I say, Alice?
what's her name again That power couple, Ariel and Ramsey?
I call them MacGyver and Timothay.
So what I also like here as well, which I think is the one
political thing that they get right is that this is absolutely
anti, um, capital punishment.
And given that America is still absolutely in love with capital
punishment, you know, nearly 40 years after this was broadcast.
I think just the assumption that capital punishment is brutal and
ridiculous, which isn't necessarily an assumption in original
trek.
I'm not sure, but it's very definitely here.
And one of my favourite lines that is coming up that Denise
delivers, you know, saying how bad capital punishment is, not in a
kind of something.
They've already suffered justice.
Do you remember that?
Yeah, that's true.
If you fall into a bunch of flowers, You get murdered there.
You get killed.
Yeah.
I like the I like Riker the way he knelt down in front of her
there.
She's like, you'll accomplish nothing, you know, by being
aggressive with me.
So he sort of comes down and puts her in a power position so she
will talk to him.
Maybe I'm giving this too much thought.
No, no, no.
I think, you know, like I think he's good in this.
There's something, you know, there's something good about him in
this.
Oh, look, I don't know.
No one else is good.
Slightly whole Asian man in the background there.
I'm not sure what he's doing, but.
Yeah, no, I think he's someone from the Odin as well.
There's just a few...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, certainly you've got MacGyver with his miserable head there
in the middle of the...
Denise Crosby says every line, like it's going to be her last.
Don't you understand, Ramsey?
You're going to be executed tomorrow.
You're gonna die.
She's so great.
Ah, dear.
She's good when she comes back.
I don't know what's happening.
No.
Well, yeah.
Just because they were like, we fucked it up. let's get it right
this time Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you see, I like that.
Look at that fella in the background there.
He's also got skinny arms, though, doesn't he?
I like that.
I don't mind wet men.
The reason you have to pin down.
We're learning a lot from each other.
It's like, oh, yeah.
Who said this isn't one of Angel Dr.?
Next generation can't get you horny.
Yep, yep.
Me.
I'd see, I'm on games, too, Willie.
No, Gates, I can't I actually really like that delivery.
I think it's really good.
And she delivers it in a gateway, you know, not in a McCoy way.
She's just, you know, I can't allow you to bring anyone up and she
knows it's a problem.
I don't know why she's looking up.
Why is she looking up?
Because they're on the on the thing.
I don't know. anyway.
The funniest thing. don't think it's bad.
The funnyest bit with her is when she goes, my god, the smell.
She goes, an airborne particle is travelling by smell.
And I'm like, no one could deliver that. and especially not
against that.
And it's such a boring revelation.
Like, that's the revelation.
It's a nice smell, so you go...
And breathe it in and then you get the illness.
But everyone's been going on about this smell that she feels the
meat to put it all together for us as well.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think there's only 4 year old that hasn't figured that
out.
No, that's right.
That's right.
Oh what's happening here?
Troy looks very angry.
Sad sack.
Richard Dean Anderson is there waiting to be executed.
Troy has done nothing.
No, and she in this planet of the what's called Ladyland episode.
Ladyland.
Yeah.
Do you ever think about that painting?
He loves walking in, doesn't he?
Fucking Trent.
Oh, Trent.
I think he'll be fine.
Where she says is that the civilised word for murder on this
world?
Good for you, girl.
Bring the politics.
That's awesome.
Yeah, but she's the one that was so thick in justice.
But she picked up the syringe and she went, oh, it's some kind of
a syringe.
Do you remember when they were about to kill him?
Yeah?
She's so great.
A sort of stupidity rises and falls, depending upon the right of
the episode.
But I thought that was pretty good.
I thought that was a pretty good line there.
Data alone on the bridge now.
This is a show I can buy into.
They're still talking about the Romulans coming, although I don't
think we see one, do we, in this episode?
No, we don't see the Romulans here.
And so they're just the kind of the colony that needs the vaccine
or whatever.
Do you know what I mean?
We need to get somewhere urgently in order to create some kind of
drama.
In series one and two.
They always need a vaccine for something.
Some dreadful medical emergency on comedy Planet B. But it also
does happen in original Trek.
We've seen it once or twice, haven't we?
Where we've had someone on board urgently telling Kirk that he
needs to be somewhere else.
You know, yeah, yeah.
Like that's the thing that happened.
There is one where we can cut into Beverly Crusher on the planet.
It's in series one.
I can't remember which episode it is And she just keeps like
messaging the ship going, people are dying here.
Get us, at all course, get us the vaccine, you know.
You're right, though.
Everything you said about series one in the past is true. don't
really know what they're doing at this point.
They are, like we said, they are trying lots of things and most of
it isn't working, which is why in three, someone actually sits
down and goes, right, what has worked?
And what can we do with this bloody show?
So this, see, they make it in just like onboard enterprise in um
in that episode that we, the most recent enterprise we did where
the religious fanatics take over the ship and they decide to
disintegrate Archer in the transporter.
Yeah, but the trouble is, is we care even less for Archer than we
do about MacGyver here.
Yeah, that's true either time.
I do like the fact that they sort of use a crystal ball.
To do their transporter.
Transporter.
Yeah.
Mid-20th century technology, but they must execute a lot of people
and they don't want to clean up afterwards.
And so they have the thing that just sort of disintegrates you
which they've invented.
The sort of lesbian security guard was getting a great close-up
there.
Did you see?
Yeah, yeah.
She wasn't looking at camera.
I like the one there behind aerial.
Now, so this speech is just literally fucking nothing.
So he was big speech.
So he says that these people aren't causing the changes in your
society, which we've heard nothing about, and it's just a thing
that's happening in your society evolution in a sort of
evolutionary way.
And if you kill them, they'll become martyrs and it won't stop
anything.
Um, And I I actually like the bit where Ariel just says, oh, for
God's sake, Beata, you know, and she goes, yes, okay, right.
And she can't bring herself to kill them.
Like, I think the reason isn't this contentless speech that Riker
gives.
It's uh, it's just like a little moment of kind of humanity and
sympathy that means that she, she doesn't do it.
He sums it all up, Nathan, with martyrs cannot be silenced.
Yeah, but it's just like nothing.
They've got nothing to say about patriarchy because they're not
interested in it.
I'm so sorry.
Trent's nipple was caught on his clothes there.
Did you see?
Oh no, I didn't.
I wasn't really looking.
You don't want to see it, really.
Yeah, awful.
Trent.
You've punctuated this entire episode with fuck off, Trent.
There he is.
See, Trent, he's a killer as well.
He's their executioner, the little shit.
He does have sort of an androgynous face, doesn't he?
It's perfect for Lau.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I want to see what board your episode is in now.
Maybe we'll roll it next.
That's it.
We'll do a series of episodes centred around Trent.
Oh, look, she's, look at the way Mistress Biarta flounces out of a
room.
They're terrible outfits, aren't they?
The women are quite tall.
Yeah, you know, I'm going to say a lot.
They're nearly as tall as, as, um, thing.
They're not the design of the gap, but they are the colours, the
sort of primary colours they love.
It's terrible.
I mean, I'm not sure any outfits are worse than what Jake Sisco
wears in DS9 in.
But this would be a close second.
He's smart, casual, where...
Although, when that turned up in that lower decks episode, the
other day, the jumpsuit.
Has she figured out what the virus is yet?
Have we got to that scene?
But I can't remember.
No, she's still working it out, isn't she?
No, yeah, she's got...
She just said bingo.
She's got it Did you notice that bit where she went up to the
glass panel and it just had sort of random chips glued to it?
And that was how there was.
I don't know.
They haven't really worked out the tech yet either.
Well, she's got a lot of post-it notes there with it.
It's like clues.
Is that what's happening?
I'm not sure we mentioned...
We did off my, but I don't think we have on my.
We haven't mentioned the brilliant Matte painting of the city.
Yeah, yeah, it is really amazing, isn't it?
It really is something.
I think it's quite beautiful.
And they use the camera.
They sort of zoom in in a clever way.
That almost tricks you into thinking into 3D. the 3D effect of
some kind happening there.
And it is beautiful.
They'll just reuse the fuck out of it over the next sort of 8
years, but it is stunning and it's something that Star Trek hasn't
managed before.
I mean, we had Devil in the Dark last time.
Well, they learn to do, isn't it?
is to animate certain parts of a map painting and then they really
come alive.
Yeah, like in Devil's Dew, you know, the planet with all the
fleeing people and the buildings on fire.
It's a map painting that we see over and over again, but it's, you
know, everyone's terrified of Ardra.
Like that's the classic one, I think.
Wait, wait, wait.
I love this.
I will just be doing impressions of Ardra the whole episode.
So good.
I am the god of this planet.
She doesn't quite go pantomime enough, does she?
No.
And so she, she has decided that they all have to live in exile
somewhere very hard where they don't have time to do any political
descent, and then that young twink goes up and looks at them
disappear and maybe he has a political awakening or whatever.
But basically the, you know, forces of conservatism win. and Riker
because he's fucked Beata, gives her a little smile and then
leaves, because he still kind of likes or emotions and optimistic
conclusions in this episode.
No, no, no.
No, no optimistic conclusions.
The little thing of what we've always said about them, you know
warping to a planet, not really making much of a difference
actually, possibly leaving it worse state and then warping off
again.
Yeah, what needs to happen is they need to inspire the people on
the planet to do something about it, but that's absolutely not
what this is interested in.
It isn't, you know, an allegory about feminism at all. how
everyone's in that shot.
Did you see that?
Data in the form?
And everyone behind.
This absolute non-joke.
Like, you know, you've got poor Patrick Stewart trying to do his
voice of having a cold and he can't say engage. you know it's so
bad.
There's a lot of season one episodes. with the terrible joke.
I mean, it's not quite as bad as when those bloody kids brought
that terrible plaque to Picard at the end of disaster.
No, that's awesome.
It's pretty bad.
Absolutely.
Deliberately an awesome crap joke.
Do you know what I mean?
Like an absolutely conscious attempt to deliberately do a crap
joke at the end of the episode, whereas this was just a terrible
joke that didn't work. the end of the episode.
Can I just say the next episode started?
I'm not sure what it is Oh, it's 11001001.
And the Enterprise has just docked.
That fabulous space station.
You know?
Oh, okay, the big one.
Yeah.
I mean, in 5 seconds, it seems better than Angel one.
That is a pretty good episode, I think.
Yeah, well, you know, they evacuate the ship. they separate the
sorcerer in that one as well.
It's all going on in.
Is it the binars?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But isn't that the one with minuet?
Oh, of course.
Now there's a sexy sultry 80s goddess for you.
Yeah, you both got Mistress Beata.
And that's another sort of, that's a Star Trek romance that is
super weird, but that actually kind of works because he sort of
loses her forever, which is sort of really weird and interesting.
I think it's good.
I think it's not bad.
We've just watched an episode that is sort of trying to make a
statement for women, but...
It is trying to make a statement at all.
In a million ways.
No, no, I think I mean, I think the intent was for that.
They failed horribly was to have a large woman that Riker could
have sex with and that we could all enjoy watching that and we
could all fantasise about the planet of the large and aggressive
sexy ladies.
And that's exactly what that was about.
I really think it's an absolute morniness thing.
Fucking hell.
I am certain that that's the game.
I don't think this has anything to say about patriarchy.
I say they succeeded with flying colours.
That's it.
This episode's a success.
Let's contact jammer again.
We need to give it an extra start.
All right, it's time for us to pick what we're going to be doing
next time.
As usual, this was a terrible episode, which means that I chose it
last time.
And so it's your turn to come right the ship and choose something
that's actually intentionally fun to watch.
So let's see what series you're going to pick from, Joe. We can
practically guarantee that it will be a better episode than that.
But I'm not sure we can guarantee we'll laugh as much as we did in
that episode because...
Unintentional was the word in your opening statement there.
All right.
So, you know what I'm going to do, don't you?
It's Voyager.
No, they're all going in.
Yeah, every now and again I do this.
I'll throw them all in and just let's just see what we get.
Okay.
Oh boy. secretly hoping for a Voyager.
Your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is season one, bad sign.
Episode 24 Desert Crossing.
No, I've never heard of it.
Keep going.
Oh, it is a Voyager episode.
And it's one that you and I have talked about a lot.
Okay.
That doesn't mean it's good.
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season seven, although we
have done a lot of season seven.
We're often drawn to the sevens, aren't we, in 9 Street?
Yeah, we have a lot of DS9, season seven.
Episode 15, the void.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
The one episode of Voyager that leans into the premise in the 11th
hour.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I don't know.
We haven't watched it.
It's got those bizarre aliens.
Do you remember that communicate with music?
They've all got like music pads and there's a very old sequence
where the camera's roving around them and they're all going...
Oh, my God.
Very strange episode.
But I think props for them for saying, do you know what?
We didn't really explore that a lot.
Yeah, yeah.
I wonder if we should do that.
No, I'd be really interested.
It might give us a chance to talk about Voyager. just generally
and um, you know, how it goes wrong.
And because she's building a lives of all of these species, yeah.
The latex quotient in this episode is through the roof.
So we can rate every alien that she means.
On the bow mask scale.
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
It sounds perfect. sounds like a great 45 minutes to me.
I mean.
And I'm always intrigued to watch more of 6 and 7 of Voyager, that
point where they were on their own.
There was nothing else on and what the hell were you doing when
you had the chance to really make your mind?
Your Star Trek.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh well, let's do it.
Brilliant.
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social
media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Caleb Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 18th of June 2024 and released on
the 28th of June.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, The Void.
Yeah, because it gives me a chance to talk about just Voyager
generally, because I think Voyager is, you know, like I said, was
it a few weeks ago where I said that, you know, um, Voyager is
what if Star Trek, but more right wing and then Enterprise is what
it's Star Trek, but even more right wing?
It's highly right wing.
Yeah.
Because, you know, there's no diplomacy and negotiation.
You know, we did alliances, which I think is a really good episode
and we learned a valuable lesson about not, you know, involving
ourselves in diplomacy.
Yeah, yeah, which is stupid and it's just like, why are we, why
are we doing a Star Trek series then if that's not what we're
going to talk about?
It just seems stupid.
Well, she goes, we will follow the rules of the Federation.
But we won't invite anyone else in.
Let's go Yeah.
No, are you aware of what the Federation actually does, you know?
Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's kind of a bit crap, really.
I think it's Mike Vajar, the directors one as well, who is one of
the better latter 90s directors.
I seem to remember, I don't remember this really standing out
beyond the premise side.
It would be interesting to see.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
No one's as fabulous as Mistress B. Alto, though.
Well, no, no one has since 1988.
It's been...
You know how these things come back, so fashion's come back and
hometown.
I hope that ever happens.
See, I remember as a kid, it going from the 70s to the 80s, right?
And I remember, like, you know, like watching Doctor Who, the 1st
Doctor Who that I watched, like I started watching in 78, and I
was a kid, and like I was aware of the 70s and things, and then
when the 80s come along, you just think, wow, the 70s were so
brown and kind of stylus in the 80s, it's really neon and
thrilling, and everyone looks great and has fabulous air.
And now, of course, the 80s is just horrific, like an absolute
atrocity.
And the 70s kind of like...
It all got a bit muted, didn't it?
Yeah. sort of a bit alternative.
Yeah, yeah, they would sort of splintered a bit, I think.
Everyone was trying to be a bit edgier, weren't they?
Unless...
Oh, I don't know.
I still have a bit of a hard on for the 80s, though, especially
the movies in the 80s.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well that was my childhood, you know, going to movies in the 80s
was like you're talking about Amadeus the other day.
Like, I remember that incredibly well, but all of those things
like I sometimes go with my sister to see things.
I remember seeing like, you know, like gremlins for the 1st time
and stuff.
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.
Ghostbusters, which is actually probably better.
Nathan.
Do you know what?
I didn't see the goodies until last year.
No.
Yeah.
It's a seminal pub.
Everyone's child.
I know.
And it's so 80s.
Like, it's so unbelievably 80s.
And it's got thingo.
Like, um, the guy from everything everywhere all at once.
Yeah, like short round from, um, uh, Corey Feldman, who turns up
in every, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right.
Like stand by me, you know, just wonderful movies and the Lost
Boys.
I found some great movie..
Oh, yeah, hugely.
Don't ever fight.
Vampire at your house, you silly boy.
It rendered you powerless.
They had Diane Weist.
Is that her name?
She's fine.
Did you wash her in the 10th kingdom?
Did you ever watch that?
I don't know how that would hold up now, but it was that was early
2000s and a fella from one of these networks that could just, he
basically said, I wanted to make this, and it's a huge, it was
massively expensive, like 5000000 or something for a TV show at
the time.
It was hugely expensive.
And they went out and filmed it a bit like Lord of the Rings and
all these beautiful locations.
And it's all a fairytale land come to life with 2 New Yorkers. sort
of traversing all the lands, little bone peep land and things like
this.
Um, and Diane Weist is the, um, she's the evil queen in it.
Wow, fabulous.
Wow.
You should probably wash that at some point.
I think you might quite like it I'm not sure the humour lands, but
no, it sort of went under the radar.
No one really really talks about it too much, but it's got I send
you a link to the title sequence and you'll see the sort of thing
they're playing with.
It's yeah, it's pretty amazing.
All right, all right.
I am not going to do a report reading.
I'm gonna want to go to bed.
I'm just gonna go to sleep.