Hey, Joe. Hi.
So this week, we're back on board the Cerritos, which is an
absolute pleasure.
It's Star Trek Lower Decks series 3 episode one, which is called
grounded, and it resolves the cliffhanger from last year, which
saw Carol Freeman marched off her ship in front of the entire
crew.
I can't remember whether it was soon before or soon after Una got
marched off her ship. in Star Trek, Straight Shit World, in that
Cliffhanger, but it was a, a kind of bad few months for, uh, for
the ladies.
Starfleet command officers.
Yeah, that's right.
We saw our 60s, right?
I didn't get into the pool there and go, right, there's too many
smart ladies in these shows.
That's right.
Can you do me a favour?
Can you remind me what happened in that last episode?
Because I was sort of scratching at my brain watching this.
And I can't recall.
I absolutely can't remember.
I can't remember.
All I remember is that they had to take the kind of the outer hull
off for some reason, which is why the Cerritos looks the way it
does in this episode.
So they've taken the hull off.
I think there was some kind of space anomaly and they needed to
reduce the weight, but I absolutely can't remember.
And I don't...
Planet blows up, doesn't it?
At the end of it.
Yeah, yeah.
Somewhere.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's not the PackLeds Planet.
It's called PackLed Planet.
That's what they call it.
Of course they do.
That's the name they do.
Yeah, big, strong city is their capital city on Panacled Planet
and it gets blown up, which is kind of hilarious.
But fortunately, even if we can't remember last year's cliffhanger
we are filled in very nicely by a newsreader, like just before the
opening credits.
It gives us a lot of detail.
And if we watch the Chiron and stuff, there's a lot of news
stories that are of interest to people who are fans of Star Trek
the Next Generation. and a few other things as well.
I could have done with that, you know, when I was watching through
Picard, those heavily serialised shows where I couldn't figure out
what was going on.
There was a news reader at the start of every episode going
breaking news.
Captain Picard has been up to this last week.
I would have been very helpful.
Do you know, when we pulled this one out of the randomiser?
I had an instant glow because I remember on 1st watch thinking to
me, and I've always loved lower decks, but this is where it really
clicked into place with me, and I understood all the dynamics
really, really well.
It's a wonderful episode for showing the family feel amongst the
lower deckers going on this insane mission and this space rocket
to try and save Captain Freeman and they just do it because they
do it for Mariner because they absolutely love her.
But there's stuff that leads into all their characters as well
because there's crazy science fiction shit going on over there
that gets Tendi all excited.
And so there's lovely stuff going on amongst the regular group.
But then it also really leans into what I think is the best thing
about this show and that is Mariner's relationship with her
mother.
And she's doing all this because despite the fact that they're
trying to tear 2 shades of hell out of each other on a regular
occasion, like all the best mother-daughter relationships in
television, they fucking love each other, and she'll go to heaven
and earth ends to try and help her mum in this episode, which is
why the rug pool at the end of the episode, which shows you an
entire other episode has been playing out amongst the core cast.
Yeah, with Tuvok. so funny And all we get to see, it's not even
animation.
It's just stills of this amazing episode that we've missed while
we've been titting around in this bloody rocket.
Oh, I just think this is lower decks firing on all cylinders
because all the jokes aside, all the crazy plots aside.
It's about the people, and this pushes that right to the front in
a really, really touching way.
It's been announced, I think, since we last did lower decks that
the 5th series of lower decks is coming up later this year and
that it's the last one that it will end after 5 series.
And it's the sort of thing that they could always bring back.
It's not like striking the sets means it's going to be expensive
to remount or whatever, but it's going to kind of stop for the
time being.
And I have to say that I'm really going to miss it because I think
it's wonderful and I absolutely love that core team of 4 people
and particularly just on the last rewatch of this episode.
I was just reminded how much I loved Handy and I don't know how
many people's favourite character, she's not the 2 big ones
Boimler or Mariner.
You know, it's her and Rutherford or the other pair.
But she is so great and she has such a great cartoon character
voice and there's those little moments that she has where she has
little moments of hysteria and stuff and she's so funny and so
wonderful.
Like her enthusiasm is just wonderful.
It should be annoying.
Boy, isn't it?
She's just so great.
I just love her so much.
She might be my favourite character.
You know what they could do?
They could do a reverse.
Remember when the series 3 ended and they said it was too
expensive to make the sets.
So they did the animated series.
They might come back and say, well, to draw these people anymore.
We'll just build sets and make live action lower decks, which I
would be absolute.
I don't think it's a bad call ending it after 5 seasons because I
wonder if the joke could wear a bit thin if it went on and on and
on.
And it just means we've got 5 really consistent seasons of lower
decks that we can cherish.
And this is stuff I know you watch this over and over again where
if you're having a tough day, you can just put on 25 minutes of
these joyful characters in these insane situations and it puts a
smile on your face.
And it's Star Trek.
You know, like I love Star Trek.
You and I have talked about a lot of Star Trek now. episode number
is this?
Numbers, man.
114?
We talked about wasting our lives, just a few episodes back.
And we know that every other Star Trek show that we talked about
has consistency issues, shall we say?
Yes, you know?
We haven't done a bad lower decks.
I'm not sure there is a bad lower decks.
And that's that's something for this show to be proud of, I
think.
I think I think there are lesser and greater episodes that are
more important episodes.
There are funnier episodes.
The peanut hamper, the 2nd episode was just an absolute joy.
Why do we never roll that one?
I always want that one to come.
But yeah, just in terms of from beginning to end being a really
good show, Bravo, lower decks.
Yeah, it's pretty great.
All right, I'm going to count us in.
I'm going to prepare to laugh for 25 minutes, so anyone who
doesn't like that sort of thing.
Depart now.
All right.
Okay, here goes.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
I was trying to think who my favourite character is when you said
that then.
I think Boimler might be my favourite character just because
he's...
He tries so hard.
He gets the funniest line of this episode.
It's absolutely my favourite moment I was roaring out loud.
All right, now watch the ticket.
This is Sylvia Ront, who is covering this thing.
Admiral Jellicoe band Zebulon sisters from active duty starships.
I'm not sure who they are, but there was Admiral Jellicoe getting
a mention.
There's Packled Planet.
Solar Knights, Eclip, London Kings in game, one of EL as yet, well
not sure what that means.
No idea what that is, but there's a six-year-old Zactor, and the
youngest to be crowned, Stratagema, uh, champion, grand Milestar.
Strategma.
Yeah, yeah, from I can't remember what it is.
It's a P performance, isn't it?
And that guy is his actor, the guy with the lumpy cheeks.
And this country stampede, dozen teens injured rushing stage at
Sonny Clemens concert.
He is the guy who they unfreeze on board the Botany Bay in the
neutral zone.
Oh, my God.
That is a deep dive.
He goes on to have a massive country music career.
Can I ask, what is the cat doctor's name?
There's that bit there where they were in shades. and she's
telling them to fuck off.
But she just goes, wow.
Oh, wait.
So one of the problems with things being easy to replicate is that
when Mariner loses her shit, she can just smash...
They say true.
Why do you keep having smashable things in your house?
He goes, I don't know if I want it.
Oh, she goes, why do you have this bridge here?
People don't drive cars anymore.
I like the bridge, don't you like the bridge?
But have you ever noticed that before?
Have you ever thought that?
Watching the films?
The original films?
I mean, that is...
Pointing out all those things about 90s trek than we never
noticed.
So what's interesting here.
This is our 1st view, I think, of, is he called Bonamigo?
Admiral Bonamigo, who is the...
Uh, Buen amigo, Spanish is very good.
He's the villain who has created the Texas class starships that
play into the finale of this season.
So he's actually a bad guy.
Uh, and Mariners, uh, Father is played by Phil Lamar, who is a lot
of people in um, Futurama, and he's actually a cartoon voice actor
who, basically everything.
Got A-less actors to do these roles, didn't they, in low days?
But what they've done, what they haven't done is they haven't got
just A-list actors who aren't good at, you know, cartoon comedy
acting.
Like, that's a definite skill.
You know, just, you know, calling David Schwimmer's agent and
getting him to play someone that's super boring, but you get
people who are good at cartoon voices.
And so these are proper cartoon voices where everyone's slightly
childish, slightly saturated.
You talked about Carol Freeman and the performance that Dawn Lewis
does in that role.
I mean she's great.
They've got to be able to pace the dialogue as well, because it's
so fast, isn't it?
Yeah.
But just slightly hiked.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Visually and orally in this show.
Oh, we cut to a vineyard, which is a terrible rip on Picard
obviously.
And Boimless surrounded by these beautiful women that are
effectively throwing themselves at him and he just keeps telling
them to go kick the grapes.
That's right.
He keeps telling them to go away. keeps ignoring them.
And it's, you know, those things, we saw those things watering
Shadow Picard in Star Trek Picard.
Like, it's not just a reference. the final episode.
He's wearing the he's wearing the hat from all good things.
He's another woman.
Do you want to taste the sweetness of one bushel?
No, the funniest one is the woman who goes, I'm covered in all
this sticky juice.
And he goes, I'll just go and go and hose yourself down.
No, that's the funniest line.
Because she says, can you help me get naked?
And he says, hold yourself flattened down, Leanne.
Like, it's so funny.
So great.
Yeah, he's always trying to fucking attract women on the surreal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he's not interested in these ones for some
reason.
Look at his face. so uninteresting.
I mean, that would be my reaction if I'm honest.
But I mean, it's also, it's also that Picard makes wine and his
family makes raisins, which are like just the shittest thing
ever.
It's like you just take fruit, perfectly good fruit, and then
shrivel it out until it's shrivelled up.
Who thought of that?
It's so bad.
I hate raisins.
They're shockingly bad.
Yeah, dreadful.
Oh, I do, you know.
Oh, dude.
Oh, bless you.
Of course he's going to come along.
Of course he is.
He's our best friend.
He's Leanne.
It's coming.
So they've got to get to the Cerrito switches in DryDoc, but they
don't know where it is, but obviously, obviously Rutherford's
going to be able to help them find it.
Um, and here, Brad, when I'm stoked in juice, and I need help
getting naked.
I can't just spray off with ice, Leanne.
Fuck it's funny.
Here we are, Cisco's.
We haven't been here since.
Oh, yes.
Since Imogen is science.
Image in the sand, yeah.
It looks exactly the same in animation.
Yeah.
It's got a dish of gumbo there.
Joseph Cisco's fabulous gumbo.
And he's wearing one of Jake Cisco's jump.
I know it's not.
It's exactly the same as the one who wears the purple with that
dreadful pattern on it.
It's so, isn't it?
I love the fact there's an Andorian beyond there, just enjoying
dinner with his lady friend.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's not Jenny.
Jennifer.
It does remind me.
What was lovely about that set was all the foliage around, you
know, making it feel a bit more.
But just the warm light, too.
I think he's wearing something that Jake wore as well, if memory
alphas to be believed boiler is wearing something too.
You see here where Marino waits to get her line in.
She literally says she's been waiting outside the door to come in
and say that line.
I'll do that all the time. you know, wait for your moment.
Make your entrance.
Oh, catch yourself hot, white sauce.
So, why not?
And again, because Bradwood's a white guy.
He just has one drop of it and he's like fainting and stuff and
Marin is just pouring tons of it into her food.
She's still pouring it.
She has a little mouthful and she goes, oh, it's got a bit of a
kick.
Is she?
So cute.
The whole scene.
Poor Boyemler is literally apoplectic there.
Pouring there down his neck.
So, this is strange.
It's so good, isn't it?
It's so much fun They're doing a little heist, you know, and
they're defeated by the fact that the guy is just a sweetheart
which is kind of adorable.
Yeah.
I love the fact that this massive espionage plot involving the Pac
Meds is taking place at exactly the same time right now.
You know, we're tittling around trying to nick this fairground
ride.
It's it's actually kind of good because Marin is wrong here, isn't
she?
That Starfleet does do the right thing.
There is something about it.
You would think normally a TV show that says no, just trust in the
legal system.
Everything's going to be fine.
That's always wrong. isn't it?
That's always wrong in every TV show.
But in a Star Trek TV show, it can be right because this is a sort
of, you know, utopia and these people are clever and stuff like
that.
Pre-programmed, though, because the 2nd he said, trust the system
and I was like, no, they're going to do the Rona thing, you know.
Mind you, maybe I've watched a few too many sort of discovery DS9s
where Starfleet is not always as Lily White as it makes itself out
to be.
This fella, who looks like Santa Claus, with his little walking
stick.
He's in charge of all the old transporter pads.
And the Joker's buffer buff.
The Joker is that, I was just such a lovely old man.
I would never hurt you.
No, because they were going to knock him out, tie him up, and then
use the transport.
No way.
He's like my grandpa.
And then he goes, do you want a butterscotch?
Just like April, old man.
Very good.
And then he crashed the car.
There's an outfit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh bless.
He does look a bit like Santa Claus, did he?
Yes.
So he's the same guy who will go on to play Gavin later in the
episode.
Bobby Moynihan, who is also a comedian and a comic character.
I used a joy with these cartoon series, isn't it?
Obviously, your voice is very dextrous.
You can play all these different roles.
Not like an actor where your face is your face and yeah, yeah, yeah
yeah.
No, that is kind of fun, but they also do get like proper, you
know, they get old Star Trek people.
Obviously, James Cromwells in this episode.
But they also just get comedians and stuff to be in it too, which
is pretty great.
Now, it is worth noting that we've heard about this pink field
that's going to be surrounding the planet ever since the news at
the start of the episode.
Yeah.
And now this lovely old man reminds us about it again.
Now this, there is something about the music for 1st contact.
Like, I almost choke up a little bit at this moment because the
music for 1st contact just absolutely comes in.
There's the statue of Zefron Cochrane that freaks Cochrane out, you
know, where he runs away because Geordie's described the statue
that's just over here at that point.
So we actually get to see it.
We get to see the bar with its famous one song jukebox because
presumably the film only licensed that one song.
So James Cromwell keeps playing it all the time in the film.
The Vulcan ship that came down for 1st contact.
They've turned into a ride covered in swings.
I'm very often certain that it's just a replica.
I mean, in the future, I hope this is true, you know, that they
have real space shuttles going up, you know, for kids.
Yeah, great fun.
And he's James Cromwell on the on the tally. and I think
Rutherford and Tandy have gone and bought themselves special James
Cromwell hats as well.
What are they eating?
Are those churros?
Juros, yeah.
Yeah, they get them down quick.
No, well, they have to.
And that's part of the joke is, you know, Rutherford delivering
this dialogue through his chewed guro.
He's Gavin at the back.
This thing in a minute is so true, this joke about this, um, 5th
person that comes on the shuttle.
It always happens on Rise for Me.
I'm usually the one that's, okay, fine.
I'll sit on my own and then I'll get some bloody loser sitting
next to me vomiting.
Do we see him again, this bloke?
No, no, no.
He just goes off into the galaxy at the end of the episode.
Oh no, he's arrested, I think, at the end of the episode.
That it.
We do see him go off, look.
James Cromwell's octagonal green CD player.
Just fantastic.
Oh, I love it when they start hijacking the show.
That's like the enterprise.
That's like the opening credits of the enterprise, that shot.
That's just...
Oh, and the song here kicks in and I'm just like, man, this is
just the best time.
Hanging out with these characters.
Listening to rock music.
We're in a rocket.
Come on.
But, you know, like just that 1st contact music, the one that they
used at the end of Picard series 3 is so good.
Like so incredibly good.
Uh, you know, better than the original Star Trek, the Next
Generation theme by a mile.
I just found...
You couldn't get much worse, you know?
No, I know.
We would have learned to love it.
Had it been the UTSP theme shoot.
I'm sure.
He looks like a big baby, that kid, didn't he?
I like these.
The sales coming out in the rocket.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty good.
I thought you should get hard on the technology, but that just
looks great.
Looks great, doesn't it?
Look so good.
All right.
They're leaving Gavin behind.
Here we go.
To the Cerritos in Dry Dock.
They all look the same, didn't they?
Like a clawed hands coming down and grabbing the ship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's that McKinley station thing from Star Trek the Next
Generation, isn't it?
And they don't they don't deviate because it's something that we
recognise as fans, you know?
They could draw something fabulous.
Why would they, you know?
No, no, no, that's right.
That's kind of part of the thing.
I say, he's going to go off into space now, all on his own.
Yep, yep.
This is my ship now, he says.
Geese Captain Gavin.
Gavin the pilot, Gavin.
I mean, well chosen.
So good.
You know any Gavins?
No, not since primary school.
I used to know Gavin and he made up a song called Chicken Legs.
I'll never forget it my whole life but I won't sing it to you
now.
Here we go now.
It's like Ocean's 11 with spaceships.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's terribly cute.
We just are about to get the bit where, uh, um, is it here?
Boemler says that he's run out of purple hair dye and he can't let
people know that the real colour of his hair is and then we switch
to something else.
So, it's always that sort of thing.
Is his hair really purple and we do know that it's purple now
because we've actually seen him on Star Trek.
Do you know what?
didn't they get it perfect?
His hair in that episode...
There was no mistaken who that was.
Oh my goodness, that was so good.
I can't wait for us to do that one, Nathan.
I can't wait.
Gee, it was enjoyable.
It was just terrifically good.
Yeah, and it's probably the only time we'll ever have live action
lower decks.
Oh, yeah, got it right.
They got it right.
Yeah, they really did.
Oh, I like the bit in a minute.
I'm not sure maybe it's just yet where she really starts panicking
because she thinks she can't save her mum.
And it all just bleeds through while she's really doing this.
Yeah, she's angry to her point and then she just lets the emotion
see through.
Yeah.
Also, there's that kind of we get a whole heap of cartoon violence
and stuff because, you know, she's trying to rescue her mother and
they're kind of trying to rescue her so she doesn't get in trouble
for trying to rescue her mother.
You know, they don't want her to take the rap for stealing the
ship and sort of heading off to Klingon space or whatever.
Um, it's, it's nice.
You know, like it's silly and, you know, absolute sort of cartoony
and things.
But it just sells that relationship between everyone.
But what I adore is, is a, um, God, I forget, I almost forget her
mother's name, Freeman says, I love you for what you did for me.
However, there are consequences.
And then that leads into the next episode with it is a wonderful
premise.
Well, you take the rest of the season, in fact. how they start to
respect each other.
It's just beautiful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, look how big they look on the screen.
It reminds me of the Ferengi in the last outpost.
I see, she's going to go off and do it herself, though.
Oh, bless her.
She is all noise and violence and all of that, but she really
cares.
And you know, I was getting a bit of a lump in my throat
watching.
And I'm like, this is absurd with these costume characters.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I was too.
I just thought the end of it was actually really sort of terribly
sweet.
There's a couple of times in the run where I think it's pro, maybe
it's moving a structure it gets. you know?
But it's because you care about the people.
Exactly.
Even though it's sort of ridiculous It does lean into a
conversation that you and I have had many, many times about, you
know, artificial people.
Why are they any different from fleshy people and cartoon people?
Why are they any different from live action people?
It's it's, people in books.
Do you know what I mean?
Like people, like we care about the people in our media, you
know?
But do you think some people would write this off just because it
is a cartoon, like Star Trek fans, I mean?
because it's a comedy.
Well, I think that's the other problem that it poses for Star Trek
fans is that because if they see Star Trek is depicting a coherent
future world, then when very, very ridiculous things happen in
that world, that makes the world ridiculous.
Do you know what I mean?
Oh, it makes the world bearable.
Well, I think it makes the world better.
Do you know what I mean?
Like much better.
It's a great thing.
And, you know, it's not like there aren't plenty of ridiculous
things in live action Star Trek anyway.
You know, that's part of the point. coherent anyway.
We've been watching original Star Trek episodes that completely
contradict things that are told in 90s trek and beyond.
No.
So if Star Trek's a type of TV show and it is, and it's the type
of TV show that we like, it's actually quite fun to see Star Trek
do different genres.
You know, we've talked about Deep Space 9 doing sitcoms or, you
know, like heists or whatever and just out and out comedies as
well.
You know, we've done comedies.
It's a surprisingly malleable format, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But is it because this is an entire, this is an entire Star Trek
series as a comedy?
Outrageous.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And and I also think too, that makes a problem for people who like
Strange New Worlds, because Strange New Worlds is quite Trad in a
lot of ways, but it's not Trad, I think, in the way that some of
the fans wanted it to be.
It's still very queer.
There's still more women than men in the regular cast and... like
you know, it's not being made in the 60s.
No, that's right.
And, you know, it's topped and tailed with cartoon scenes with
Rutherford and Tandy at the beginning, and then with the crew of
lower decks, you know, at the end.
Even I realised even I had my limit, though, when those Klingons
came up and started singing that boy band song.
I was like, 0 my god.
That was Hammer.
I've reached the end.
This is too much.
But yeah, no, that's just personal taste.
But there, that bit there where you just saw the tears in her eyes
and she broke down on the floor.
It's so, so sad.
Oh, that's right.
Of course, Tendi can pretend that they're doing a biological
survey. you know, it's all science, you know.
But when she takes over, she has that little moment of kind of
hysteria.
Do you know what I mean?
That little sort of strange moment where she's does the sort of
high voice slightly out of control thing, which I just think is so
funny.
It's one of my favourite things that she does.
I love it as well.
Don't you love her look?
She's got that sort of shape on me, not shaved, but it looks
shaved at the back of her head.
She reminds me a bit of these, the con office, sorry, Strange New
Worlds.
What's her name?
Erica.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That sort of very, very cool looking.
Yeah, slightly it's slightly queer looking too, isn't it?
This is taking this out of Elosium with all of these, you know, how
do we say it?
Oh, the things come to have sex with Voyager.
These massive sperms that they're currently tangling with.
Well, that's what it is.
Well, they wouldn't say it in Voyager, you know, they yeah, they
sticks up their butt, so they wouldn't just say, oh, it's a load
of cum, basically, you know.
No, it's an orgy, isn't it, taking place on the Harlow
Versaritos?
They've found, you know, they're reproducing, they've found carbon
or something like that, and they're all just having sex on them
more explicit about it, and I like that.
You know, we've loosened up a bit. in the intervening years.
I mean, look at the giant sperm tales coming around them.
I know, I know.
I fucking love that cat doctor.
Look at her in Beverly Crusher's coat. so funny.
Oh, yes, of course.
But I mean, the great thing about that too, is that Carol arrives
to save Mariner.
Yeah, here's the here's what we didn't see.
Oh, look, that's a...
No who?
It's Captain Bateson, Captain Bateson from Cause and Effect.
Section 31 on the Packers Planet.
Ah yeah.
Faked evidence of Freeman.
There was actually a pack led, a space battle.
We missed all of this. in the Romulan.
Oh, Tuvok doing a mind meld?
I mean, I'm not going to lie, Nathan.
That episode looks amazing.
But she says it was a huge reveal.
Do you know what I mean?
Because it was an episode.
You know, that was the big reveal.
That's how that's how Carol refers to it.
A classic pack-led Samaritan snare.
I can't believe they said Samara.
And then look at them all.
You've got the whole crew standing there like at the end of Star
Wars, everyone applauding them.
That's right.
In fact, that's a really brilliant way of reinforcing the premise
for the 1st episode of a new series as well.
This is what these guys get up to while a proper Star Trek is
happening, a proper Star Trek episode is happening. is the premise
of the show, basically, isn't it?
But in a wonderful visual gag.
That just makes you long to see the other episode as well.
You're never going to see it, all right?
Tandy wasn't in the other episode.
We got the better deal.
I think they realised they were onto a good thing with this
because all of our core characters, the lower deckers are really
wonderful, but I think they realised very quickly that actually
the upper deckers were great characters as well.
And so as the show goes on, we explore both sets of characters in
a great way.
Well, I mean, the 4 of them, aren't they, the 4 of them?
So Freeman, Ransom, Shacks and Tana are all in the opening credits
like their names are in the opening credits.
So it's those 4 and our 4 lower deckers, isn't it?
They're the 8 people whose names.
So it was, I think, always intended to be them, but yes, they were
in other rooms doing exciting things that our guys would never
find out about.
I mean, I'll never forget the cat doctor and the sex episode where
she was going around clawing at everybody.
Do you remember Aaron Sharks?
I don't know what they were getting up to.
What about the one where they were having sex in the holiday?
There's a couple of them, actually.
One where Boimlet is moved into another crew quarters because he's
a lieutenant and...
You are missing out on all this fun.
So great.
Look at what good time we're having.
Come on, you could be having this time as well.
What is that ransom saying, I'm your mama now?
I love...
I know I've said it.
I love her performance.
I think the actress playing Freeman is so great.
Someone that sort of anchors it, you need someone that's serious
but it's still sort of playing it, like you said, in that cartoony
way.
Yeah, yeah.
Just slightly bigger.
Okay, so Picard was trying to solve Fermat's last theorem in an
episode of season two, I think, but then Fermat's last theorem has
actually since been solved.
But he was still trying to solve it in the 23rd century for some
reason.
I think they named the noons around Jupiter at one point in the
80s as well, and since then, several 100,000 have been
discovered.
Don't worry about that.
Tobin Dax also tried, I think, to say to solve Fermat's last
theorem.
It worth saying that the kid does look a bit Wesley Crusher-ish as
well.
Dreadful haircut.
And of course, we talked over Gavin being arrested by some people
in a runabout as well, still going crazy and, you know, insisting
it's his ship, bless him.
I do really love...
I do really love the fact that obviously Mari needs to be punished
for what she's done because she stole a shuttle, you know, broke
lots of rules and didn't trust in the system and all of that.
And they realise that we're your parents and you're never going to
listen to us.
We're in these authority roles for you.
So then she hands him over to help me out.
Ransom?
Ransom.
She goes, because we are going to take none of your shit.
It's a great solution as well because those 2 have had a
fracturous relationship ever since the 1st season.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's really fun seeing them work together.
It's really great.
So it just promises more laughs to come.
I think that's wonderful.
I think it's really, it's a far story.
So it doesn't hang around anywhere too long for you to get bored
but it just always puts the characters first.
And I think the best episodes are low.
I think the weaker ones or the the less good ones are the ones
where it's all sort of premise and there's just light character
stuff going on, but these ones where you really get up close with
them and you see the bond between them.
That's the best of this show, I think, by a mile.
And that's absolutely what this one's about, isn't it?
It's about reestablishing those relationships, I think, after some
time off and I just think it's really terrific.
Just bringing the crew back together.
Weirdly enough, given it's uh, a sequel to the last season, you
know, it's tied up all of those bits, because it did end on a
great cliffhanger series too with her being taken away.
Oh, yeah.
I think you could probably pick up the show here and quite happily
understand exactly what lower decks is all about and just watch it
from this point on.
This was your, you know, your 1st episode.
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's intention.
And that bit at the end, you know, the snapshots of the other.
That's just them laying out the premise one more time, just in
case nobody was paying attention.
Absolutely brilliant.
I have to say, Nathan, that, or I'm sure we'll do plenty of other
Star Trek between now and the next time we do lower decks, but
none of it will be as enjoyable.
Yeah, I love it too.
Well, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work
out what we are doing next.
I chose this one because I have impeccable taste, but it's time
for the rains of the randomiser to return to you.
So let us know what you're going to pick.
It's been far too long since we last went on a journey with
Captain Kirk and Crew.
We're heading back to the original series.
Obviously, we just had great fun with Lower Decks, and we
generally always have fun with TOS as well.
So let's keep the thread of fun going.
Okay.
Let's press the button.
Oh, one we've already done.
Season two, episode six, the superb doomsday machine.
Yep, that was great.
One we've already done.
Season three, episode six, the Superb Spectre of the Garden.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Ooh, that's an early one.
Season one, episode three, where no man has gone before.
So this is actually the 2nd pilot.
Isn't it?
No, the man trap's a 2nd pilot, isn't it?
No, the matchup's the 1st episode, but where no man has gone
before doesn't have McCoy in it, and it has Gary Mitchell, who has
been referenced recently, I think, in Discovery.
Um, so it's, it's different.
It's not quite Star Trek as you remember it, we do get to see
Captain Kirk's Tombstone with James R.
Kirk on it.
So it's before he was James Tiberius Kirk.
And it also features, does it feature the galactic barrier?
I think that's the episode where the galactic barrier comes from.
You know, I'm not sure I want to watch an episode without McCoy in
it, though, you know.
The last couple we've done.
Really haven't featured him much at all.
Yeah, it's strange.
It's not quite Star Trek because you remember it.
I do remember the guy with the creepy powers, his eyes.
He was quite the scale.
Charlie X, isn't it?
Oh, no, no, no, the wrong episode.
You might be thinking of Charlie X. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, let's press again then.
Oh no, let's do this.
Yeah, let's do this.
I remember this being very well directed.
Season one, episode 25.
The Devil in the Dark.
Oh, that's an absolute classic.
It's really hang up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's proper Star Trek, too, in a really, you know, like sort of
this early on, but they actually nail what Star Trek's about in
all sorts of ways.
I think it's really good.
I'd love to see it again.
That's a great show.
They do some interesting innovations with the special effects on
that one as well.
Plus Leonard Nemoy, you know, telepathic contact with an alien.
With a big rock.
It's brilliant.
Oh, let's do it.
Awesome, awesome.
That's brilliant.
Can't wait.
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lam.
This episode was recorded on the 4th of June 2024 and released on
the 14th of June.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, The
Devil in the Dark.
Since we last recorded, discovery ended, which happened and was a
thing, in a longer episode...
And I saw, I did see snippets of the episode, you know, I just
watched a few bits to see, well, is it going to end in pure
triumph?
Now, did you watch the...?
Because they did this weird thing.
I watched the last 10 minutes. so they leap ahead.
But, and it's a weird, like, it's how you expect, like, it, it's
it is an epilogue, you know, like, it's not really part of the
previous episode, it does, like, the previous episode ends on the
sort of themes that you would expect original, like, you would
expect discovery to end on because it's all about loving one
another and blah, blah, blah.
But, um, But, like, we'd had, like, O O and Debt, were barely in
it.
They're in an episode where they sort of travel back, they travel
in time to sort of random points in Discovery's history in a sort
of high concept time episode, and so they're obviously in that.
But they're there to sell that it's the past.
And, you know, the thing is that Discovery is the longest running
Star Trek TV series.
What, in terms of how many years?
Yeah Yeah.
Certainly not in running.
No, no.
But because because of COVID and because of the rider's strike, it
had that big gap.
And so clearly they have trouble getting people back for series
5.
And so they get a Dira and they get Tilly back full time, they
lose Saru, who is in a couple of episodes at the beginning and a
couple of episodes at the end.
And, you know, we end series 5 proper on Saru and Tarina getting
married, which is just absolutely adorable and a wonderful way to
end. don't blame these actors getting other work in another...
They can't hang around forever waiting to make the last...
No, exactly right.
And I think that they made the right decision.
You know, that before it just stopped being quite the show that
we'd been used to.
They just sort of decided, we're going to have difficulty getting
these people back regularly.
Let's just end it.
And so what they do is they do that sort of 20 minute scene or 15
minute scene at the end where it's the future.
And it, it's really, like I liked it quite a lot, you know, like
book, like just getting book and Michael together, which is nice.
You know, the season starts with them, sort of estranged, and
getting back together in a nice way, and that was sort of sweet
and, you know, they're on a planet that looks a bit like Quaishon
you know.
Um, and they've got a handsome son and stuff like that.
But what they're doing is they're sending discovery off, uh, and
you know, they re, they do it up so that it looks like it used
to.
Did you notice that?
They're in space dog, like, you know, they were in this episode
and you see a scene of the dots rubbing the A off, you know, the
thing.
And so they make it look like it did in season 2 because they're
dropping it off to prepare for the short trek calypso to happen.
And I think the short track Calypso is the best of the short
tracks.
I think it's magnificent.
It's beautiful and sad and lyrical and it's a sort of romance
between, um, I think it's called Tricky, like a man called Tricky
who has a wife and kid, but he's kind of travelling and Zora.
It's the 1st time we see Zora, and we know that it's the 31st
century or the 32nd century.
We know that the ship's deserted and suddenly the, it's the 1st
time we see Zora.
We see Zora later when the show goes into the future, but this
short trek was made before the show ever went into the future.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
It's stunning.
And they didn't need to do that.
They didn't need to kind of tie it up in that way.
But it did give Michael a chance to say goodbye to Discovery, and
it just gave us the big group hug that, you know, that show was
always going to end with.
With all those people back.
From what I've heard, because I know Mark Donaldson quite well.
He does the Dr. Hoop podcast in the time lash and he writes for
screen rant, so he writes Star Trek reviews for an online
resource.
And it's sort of I've been asking him because he's been watching
it and I've been obviously talking to you as well.
And his sort of opinion was, it's been a good last year.
It's been solid.
But it hasn't been triumphant in the way that, say, Picard series
3 was, which was a huge last hurrah, you know, into the sunset.
This was good telly and very watchable and you, like you said, you
can clearly see the cars coming in and out.
I just wonder if that's a sad note for a show that came in so
willing to make ripples, you know, and be like, right, we're
different.
This is the Star Trek you're used to, and you might not like it
but bloody hell, we're gonna, we're gonna shock your system a
bit.
I think that...
Am I wrong with that?
I think that's exactly what I missed with it because like that's
what I loved about Star Trek discovery when it 1st turned up.
It looked just absolutely fucking incredible.
You'd never seen Star Trek in the cinema or on television that
looked anything like it.
It looked magnificent.
It was taking risks.
It was doing strange things.
It was telling the story from a completely different point of
view.
It looked like it was a Star Trek series, but it was just a series
set in the Star Trek universe.
You know, we've made that distinction before.
And then gradually it gets its kind of, it loses its edge in two
which I think is a massive apology tour, and it says, we'll try
and be much more better behaved Star Trek.
You know, we get Pike and his, you know, dad, space dad being, you
know, making everyone be sensible and stuff like that.
And then we go to the future.
And I think 3 is really good and weird in a good way, and they're
struggling to make this new show, but they've found a way of
making it look even more visually distinct from any other Star
Trek we've ever seen.
It gives the chance for Michael to chill out as well.
Like all of that stuff is really great.
Series 4 is a triumph.
And 5 is we've learned how to make this now, and so it no longer
has the edge, I think, that it once had.
It's where TNG got, wasn't it?
Like we said, TNG started off being risky and bumpy and terrible
Kenny.
But trying, trying lots of things, you know, and seeing precisely
why they don't work.
Yeah.
But Troy in.
And then and then 3 comes along and they're clearly they've
learned how to make this now and they're producing great work and
then eventually it gets to a point where it's like, okay, yeah
we're making good telly.
Well, we ain't take those risks anymore.
We're not trying new things.
And I'm wondering if this is a good place to say goodbye before it
just gets too safe because I think we're it's heading there.
Yeah I think so.
Like, this is a sort of fairly standard quest with clues and stuff
like that.
So it's a sort of, you know, in Doctor Who terms, it's like the
key to time season.
They're finding things.
And I think the final conclusion that we come to is a fairly
predictable one.
And we get some really spectacular stuff, like just amazing
visuals in that final episode at the very beginning.
Yeah, when I was sort of skipping through it, I was going, yeah
yeah, really trippy weird stuff, you've got 2 new characters who
are quite good in Moll and Locke.
You get the Breen as an adversary who are visually, really
spectacular and super interesting.
They always pull them out in the last season, didn't they?
Yeah, we learn a lot more about the brain, you know, and we, you
know, we see a character without their helmet on.
We learn what they look like for the 1st time without ruining
them.
Do you know what I mean?
without making them dumb.
One thing that really stood out to me watching, because I, you
know, was going to always going to watch the last scene.
Because, and you know me, I'm not a massive DevoC of discovery.
So watching that last season was never going to ruin my enjoyment
watching the last season.
And I, so I watched from when you, you see Michael in the future
in the garden with all the red leagues around and all of that
right up until the end.
And I was like, okay, so this show is ending where it began with
its focus on Michael Burnham.
And it really hasn't left that stance all the way through.
My issue is, obviously, you know I don't find her the most
interesting of characters.
I love the, I think she's a terrific actress, but I think some
mistakes were made along the way, um, with all the weepiness and
all that.
And I know you, yeah, she does have moments where she's very fun
and we've seen her in that wonderful episode where she was down on
a planet and having a laugh and when she's drugged to the eyeballs
in series 3, episode one.
All very funny.
Um, So I think, I basically think your reaction to discovery as a
whole is your reaction to Michael Byrne as a character.
See, for me, because it's her journey.
I don't think there's ever been a Star Trek show that has been so
focussed on one show, one character from beginning to end.
It's a long move.
Maybe deep space nine.
Although that's more of an ensemble, but you know, Discovery's an
ensemble as well.
And when Michael becomes the captain, she is a very collaborative
captain who lets people do things and, you know, isn't threatened
you know, like is collaborative, you know, I think she's really
good.
I just think that Sanequa is so beautiful.
Like, just if the show's about her and her face is in shot and the
smile, that smile and just the...
Even in that dreadful old age makeup.
She had gorgeous.
Oh, H makeup is actually surprisingly good. in high death.
It was subtle for once, but she's just so beautiful and so, so
charismatic.
And then in real life, she's, if anything, even more stunning and
just wonderful.
Like I just love her so much as an actress, I think she's really
great.
And yeah, we did have that problem with a lot of gloopy crying and
shit in series 2, but they did kind of read.
Oh my god.
That's been a lot of creepy crime for a while.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But fortunately, I saw a balance there.
Series 2 was kind of the high points of it, I think.
But I just think she's...
I've got a theory, you know.
I've got a theory they've presented her with one of those dreadful
latex masks, you know, like the man in 2 short a seasons.
She went, I'm not wearing that.
Jesus Christ.
Just put a few wrinkles around me eyes.
I'm gorgeous.
That's just not how I'm going out in discovery.
I think that old old age makeup has to be better now because the
cameras are so much less forgiving, you know, like...
And so you, it just has to be subtle.
I thought it worked really well.
We still have seen some dreadful examples of Curtis when Shrek
ain't that good?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. they don't do it all.
But you know what?
I mean, even though Discovery, it's probably my least favourite
Star Trek show, animated series aside.
Enterprise.
Yeah, yeah, enterprise.
No, probably my 2nd...
But even I would say, I love the fact that it metamorphs every
season into something new.
I think that's really refreshing.
I think Tilly is wonderful.
I think Giorgio is one of the best things that ever happened to
Star Trek. absolutely hilarious.
I, you know, I love that dive into the alternative universe.
I thought it felt very refreshed when it went into the future and
that 1st half of series 3 where we're exploring all the races that
we know, but in a way that we don't know them was really great.
The true episode there was awesome.
The one on Saru's home planet in series two.
There's been some absolute standout episodes.
So even within a show that I've been less than impressed with.
I think there's gold in there.
And it's worth celebrating.
Yeah.
And it's how they learn to make Star Trek, you know, how they
learn to make Star Trek again.
And look at what came of it.
I mean, you know, Stranger Worlds is just spun off discovery
series too.
The weakest season of discovery at least gave us Strange New World
and that cast, Rebecca Romayne, you know, Ethan Peck, and
Beautiful Anson Mount. you know, it's pretty pretty amazing.
Sacrificed the time we spent watching Discovery series 2.
Just for that scene where the gore ripped out of that blue man in
that fabulous...
It was worth the sacrifice.
And I think, as Jonathan Frakes said in an interview this week, you
know, it's discovery and he's very clear on this.
He won't.
I am not taking any questions.
Discovery reinvigorated.
It set fire out of this franchise again.
And look at everything that came out of it.
Lower deck, prodigy, you know, if discovery had been a flop.
Yeah, then they wouldn't have been doing more.
They certainly wouldn't have been doing 5 shows at once.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he was there in the 2nd last episode, wheeling the camera
around like an absolute fucking bastard.
You would have been proud of him.
So fucking annoying.