WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:36:23

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So we're back in the middle of the 22nd century this week for a

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voyage aboard Enterprise, and I think, was this one my choice?

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Because I usually choose Enterprise.

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If you have the last 2 or 3 times, yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I never really said go on board.

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Well, I have to say that I don't hate this episode and it's series

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3, episode 12.

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We're right in the middle of the Zindi Arc, and it's written by

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Manny Koto and directed by Roxanne Dawson.

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And so it is actually really good for an episode that's sort of

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fairly slide.

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And I thought what it does well is that it takes the new setting

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of being in the Delphic expanse.

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And it bases a sort of fairly standard Star Trek story, but it

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bases it around an important kind of element of the kind of law

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for this story.

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So the spheres and the makers.

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And I think we discover this episode that the spheres are

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generating or manipulating the Delphic expanse or something.

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And we see makers later in the season, and I think we learn that

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that's exactly what happened and stuff.

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So all of that is building towards something in a way that I think

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is kind of interesting.

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And then it's got this theme which is sort of relevant to the

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Zindi thing as well.

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I mean, in the 1st half of season three.

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There's a lot of these rando episodes that are tenuously linked to

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the overarching plot, that actually have nothing to do with it at

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all.

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It's a bit like season 6 of Deep Space 9 where every single piece

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of that season is connected to the Dominion War Arc, but not

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necessarily the ongoing narrative.

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So it's just adding sort of shades to the overall picture of the

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season.

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But my issue here was DF9 had 7 years to play about with the

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Bajoran faith, right?

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So by the end of what you leave behind, I felt as if I understood

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it quite well, you know, and I understood what they believed in

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and all the different ceremonies and all this stuff that they do.

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I was about to say nonsense.

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Sorry.

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An hour of enterprise in the middle of this season.

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It's action-packed season.

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I didn't at all understand the religion that was focussed on in

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this episode and quite how it came to be, quite what they believed

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in and all that.

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So I'm like, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding why any of

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this is relevant.

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So why I think it's relevant is this. clearly season 3 is a

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response to 9-11. and so you have a massive terrorist attack on

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earth and you stop doing the kind of liberal exploration, making

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alliances nonsense that characterises Star Trek, and you go off to

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kind of, you know, kick some ass and stop a 2nd attack from

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happening.

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You've watched it anomaly.

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They're angry.

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They're angry.

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And here what they're doing is looking at another aspect of that

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in a different way.

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So what we have are religious fanatics who have suicide bombers

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who take over the enterprise, and because they're such religious

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maniacs, they don't care about how much havoc they wreak, how many

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people they kill, they're completely impossible to persuade.

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Right is on that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And and for me, and there was a strand of commentary after 911

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that located the problem that led to 911 in the religious beliefs

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of the people involved, that Islam had a problem, and that Islam

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was inherently irrational and mediaeval and violent and

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incompatible with the modern world.

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And so the people that we were up against, the problem with them

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was that they were religious, and that absolutely is such a gross

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oversimplification of the whole thing, and I don't know enough to

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talk really confidently about the geopolitics here.

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But there's a reason that, uh, certain areas of the world are more

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religious than others, and I think that there's a reason that

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certain societies have a grudge against the United States, and I'm

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not in any way defending like who is defending, you know, horrific

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and murderous terrorism, but just the idea that it's caused by

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dumb religious people seems really reductive and ridiculous to

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me.

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But I hear what you're saying.

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But I don't think they entirely go down that route, because

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amongst this religious sect, we meet people that are questioning

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the faith and what they're being asked to do, and I thought this

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was the essential part to making the 1st half of this episode work

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they cast a very thoughtful actor in the role of the head

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extremist, who is a sort of a reasoning man, who, you know

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everything in his religion tells him that he should be

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annihilating the enterprise crew, because they committed heresy.

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And at one point he goes to Archer.

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Well, look, I know you did this, but I like you and I think you

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are a good man.

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And so they could so easily have painted them, you know, black and

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white.

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I do think there's a bit more shade than maybe we could have hoped

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to expect.

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I think that's true, but I think that it's more like hated in the

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characters of, like, I said, Yarik and the his wife, you know, the

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young man whom Archer is eventually able to persuade to help them

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to kind of take the ship back, whereas this guy, I think, he's a

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manipulative kind of cult leader.

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And so all of his appearances of charm and rationality kind of

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belie the fact that he's just an absolute maniac.

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I did like the performance, though.

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I thought the guy gave...

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Oh, I did too.

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I think it's a great performance.

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A more subtle performance that I thought we would have got.

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Trouble is, Nathan, is, you know, we had gold to cut as a

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religious leader.

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An insane despot, religious cult leader at one and everybody

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powers in comparison to that in terms of entertainment.

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So, of course, this guy, the character, I think it's called DJ

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Mart, and he was the guy, Conor O'Farrell, who played Jeff in

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Little Green Man.

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Is he really?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah. not make the connection.

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Earl Green Men more times than it's healthy.

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Okay, that's a good term.

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I'll tell you what, my biggest issue with this episode was, because

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you, you know, you'd watch this before me and you sent me a

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message saying, uh, this, that was better than I thought it was

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going to be, you know?

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So I went in with high expectations, saw the teaser and went, oh

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god, this looks so boring.

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What is he smoking this week?

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And then the 1st 3rd of the episode, there's 2 parts of them. well

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talk about it when we're in there really made me sit up and I was

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like, ooh, Enterprises was being a bit edgy for once.

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This is unusual.

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And then in the middle, 3rd.

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I thought, oh, suddenly everyone's behaving a bit stupidly, you

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know, especially the religious people.

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And then in the end, even though it was well staged, it was

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basically Voyager action on Enterprise, you know?

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And that's fine.

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You know, it's quite dynamic, but there's no surprises in that

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last third.

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No.

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I did think it was just competently done and enjoyable to watch

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and the action was quite good and I like there being action.

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You know, that's a fun thing.

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Nope, the camera work during the early scenes when they take over

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the ship.

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I was really aware that she, uh, Roxanne Dawson, quite impressive

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direction here, was doing a lot of handheld camera work and just

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sort of, I don't know, framing the shots in really interesting

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sort of tight ways.

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I thought, okay, even she's got, you know, we're not doing this

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lame ass, naughty's trek direction anymore, you know?

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We're kicking into the new millennium now.

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She doesn't go on to continue with acting all that much, does

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she?

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I mean, she basically becomes a director.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. hot demand.

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If you look at her IMDb, she's done a lot of work.

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Yeah, no, she's great.

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I mean, we think she's a great actor as well.

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But she does a good job here, I think.

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Well, you know what?

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think we should probably watch this episode.

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We wondered if we were going to have much to talk about, but I

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think we will.

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Yeah, I think we probably will.

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All right, let's count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one.

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And we're off. 42 minutes and 50 seconds.

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I like that in an enterprise episode.

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Can I say immediately?

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Yeah, I love the design of the stairs in series three.

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Yeah.

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Like, this is all about uncompleted one.

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But when they're eventually done and they've got this sort of net

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of webbing going around them and they're spinning, they're really

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quite dynamic.

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So I think the next episode after this is proving ground, which

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we've already done, like we have done the next episode, and that

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contains the Zindi weapon, which has all of that spinning stuff.

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This is where I think, which looks pretty great.

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The leaps in CGI work with enterprises, when they're doing stuff

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in space, you know, so you had that shot there of the shuttle

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going around the sphere.

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I look pretty good.

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It's when they start trying to do something a bit more detailed

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and recognisable like people is when it all falls apart.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think the final scene too is probably more than they can

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actually technically achieve too.

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I was thinking of you the whole time I was watching it.

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They do look a bit like Bajorans, these people, don't they?

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Yeah, yeah.

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And sort of the hippie bead thing and the, and the, all of that

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you know, that's a bit Bajoran as well.

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You know, something that's vaguely kind of Native American.

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Clearly, religious zealots have a look. you know, in the future.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think that's it.

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It's been a long road.

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So, what are the... is that we get to see those people by

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themselves in scenes, and that's the thing that 90s Trek doesn't

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do, and it's in the normal Bible and stuff.

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So that scene there where we just had the 3 what are they called?

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They're called trianons.

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Cool, say off.

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You know, yeah, they're talking to one another.

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That's actually not too bad a thing.

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And then later on we get Yarik and his wife talking to one another

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too, about their feelings about being an a cult led by DJ Mart. So

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you know, like, I think all of that stuff is pretty good.

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Again, it's more fun and confident, no, when Goldger cuts fucking

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off the cult and calls the woman to.

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And the baby's born and it's half Cardassian.

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My God.

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It's a miracle.

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The car rides to set as a sign.

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I mean, it's more fun than this, I'll tell you.

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Yeah, 0 yeah.

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No, look, I mean, he will go on to revisit that, obviously, in

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Battlestar Galactica with Gaius Baltar, kind of weird sex cult in

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the late seasons.

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I quite like this title sequence.

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I made Mark listen to the title sequence music. this time around.

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I was on a train. listen to this.

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And he listened to it and he went, oh, what a terrible song.

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I went, that's that's the title music to start a Enterprise.

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He went no, it's not.

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I mean, it is.

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Why?

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he said.

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I went, I don't know, really.

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Bless them.

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What's this astrometrics?

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And so I don't know, but it is like a very skinny, very tiny broom

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on the ship.

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And you complained again about how gray this all looks.

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So gray, Nathan.

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Yeah.

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Why?

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It's because it's great and their uniforms are blue.

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There's just no colour in the screen at all.

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Well, I think the sets are small as well.

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But you know why they are.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

250
00:12:43.139 --> 00:12:46.620
And the screens as well, all these Dell monitors everywhere.

251
00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:48.240
It is so hilarious.

252
00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:50.700
What's weird is, you know, we watched some TNG lately.

253
00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:52.559
I feel like the graphics are going backwards.

254
00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:55.500
I mean, I know there's supposed to be a more primitive time, but

255
00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:57.120
it's made afterwards.

256
00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:58.799
So technically this should look better.

257
00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:00.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

258
00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:02.639
No, they're trying to make it look less.

259
00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:05.580
But I mean, but like, remember what we talked about in discovery

260
00:13:05.580 --> 00:13:08.519
you know, just use the technology you have now, okay?

261
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:10.740
They were never going to do that.

262
00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:13.799
That's why they were capitals.

263
00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:17.639
Yeah, they would they have more monitors than the enterprise that

264
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:17.940
does.

265
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.279
Nice way that ship's sort of latching onto the edge of the

266
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:21.000
enterprise there.

267
00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:21.419
Did you see?

268
00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:22.740
Yeah.

269
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:23.580
Yeah.

270
00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:25.980
Oh, John Billingsley.

271
00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.440
He's great in this.

272
00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:33.299
I have to say he has a really, really good, um, like a really

273
00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:37.320
really terrifically good scene and uh, some fun scenes as well

274
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:42.899
where he talks to the wife of the, of the cult member, where I

275
00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:46.139
just was obsessed with his body language, because he refused to

276
00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:49.860
hold himself in a naturalistic way, every part of the scene, and I

277
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:50.879
couldn't take my eyes off him.

278
00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:55.019
See, I think that's an ugly moment.

279
00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.379
So we look across and we say one of the cartworms in his face is

280
00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:01.559
all disfigured and it's the disfigurement that's caused by the

281
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:07.320
anomalies in the Delphic expanse, the we see those, you know, on

282
00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.539
the ship that they go and investigate early on.

283
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:10.860
I can't remember what the episode is.

284
00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:15.059
And so they're warped, do you know what I mean, physically warped

285
00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:20.220
by their desire to contact the makers and stuff.

286
00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.200
Is that considered like a spiritual experience?

287
00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:24.059
Exactly right.

288
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:24.659
Exactly right.

289
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.559
And in fact, Dejamat makes that and shows Archer where on his

290
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:29.399
forearm.

291
00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:30.600
It's happened to him as well.

292
00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:34.980
And so, you know, they deliberately caught being disfigured

293
00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:37.139
because they're such maniacs.

294
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:42.299
Um, yeah, I just think all of this stuff about religion is ugly.

295
00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:47.700
Wow, I don't think, uh, post 911, we were going to get a non-ugly

296
00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:50.039
treaties on religion, if I'm honest.

297
00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:53.519
But that's the point, I think, with for me about enterprise.

298
00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:57.659
I made a joke the other week that Voyager was next gen only more

299
00:14:57.659 --> 00:15:02.159
right wing and Enterprise was next gen only even more right wing

300
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:02.639
than that.

301
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:04.139
And that's what we have here.

302
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:06.480
We have America's reaction to 911.

303
00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:09.059
Voyager had come along a couple of years later.

304
00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:14.580
So Voyager had been around post 911, all of this sort of ugliness

305
00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:15.840
would have seeped into that show as well.

306
00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:20.519
Well, like, Voyager has a problem where we're not making alliances

307
00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.179
we're in the distant Delta Quadrant, and we aren't cooperating

308
00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:24.840
with anyone.

309
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:28.559
You know, we're just one ship bravely making our way in anyone

310
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:32.159
who's in series 7 when she suddenly decides, no, we do need to do

311
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:32.340
that.

312
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:33.779
Oh, no, wait.

313
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:34.559
It was a bad idea.

314
00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:37.679
I was right all along That's right.

315
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:39.419
So that's a problem here.

316
00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.539
It is just basically, you know, here's how America wants to

317
00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:43.620
respond to 9-11.

318
00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.320
And they just go all in on it.

319
00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:49.440
There's no one suggesting that there's sort of better angels of

320
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.059
America's nature or that America.

321
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.440
Yeah, here we go.

322
00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.299
There's his warped forearm.

323
00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.740
My one sort of reaction to that, though, is I do thing.

324
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.740
I know you don't really like what it's saying.

325
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:06.360
I do think it's a better television show in series 3 than series 2

326
00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:10.559
because they just try to do something ambitious for once. you know

327
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.500
and they're finally saying, Jesus, we're on the verge of being

328
00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:13.980
cancelled.

329
00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.399
If we don't do this season long arc now, we're not going to get a

330
00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:18.059
chance to do it.

331
00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:19.860
So they just go for it.

332
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:20.820
I really like that.

333
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:27.000
Well, you see, I think that that's why I like series 4. and I like

334
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.820
series 4 not because it goes back and visits all this sort of Star

335
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:33.240
Treky thing and has, you know, a Klingon arc and an augment arc

336
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.279
and a, you know, Vulcan arc.

337
00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:41.100
But because it does do, it tells a continuous story and they've

338
00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:47.460
kind of nailed how to do, um, like how to do serialisation in it

339
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:48.720
and they prepared to do it.

340
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.600
It's almost like a reaction to three, isn't it?

341
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:54.779
Because 3 didn't really work in terms of numbers.

342
00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.139
Like they started bleeding viewers who didn't have the patience to

343
00:16:58.139 --> 00:16:59.820
watch this thing play out over a whole year.

344
00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:03.059
I thought, well, I think people were just born of Star Trek anyway

345
00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:03.539
at this point.

346
00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:04.859
So I were in four.

347
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.380
They said, yeah, like you said, let's tell a big picture, but

348
00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:12.000
let's tell individual stories, but we'll do three parters, so we

349
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.859
can do them, our own pace, you know, focus on a different races.

350
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.740
We can do lots of character moments because it's a three, you know

351
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:21.059
3 hours long effectively.

352
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.980
It was yeah, it was a great move.

353
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:27.299
But there is just something, I know it winds up being a big sort

354
00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:32.279
of cartoon in space because it ultimately ends up archer on top of

355
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:36.779
that great big bomb, you know, fighting the Zinti in all of this.

356
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.180
But, I don't know.

357
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.660
There's just, there's so much more substance to it than series 2

358
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:46.140
where the show was just floundering like a fish out of water.

359
00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:47.579
Yeah.

360
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.180
Yeah, but I think it is the big problem is that Berman doesn't

361
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:58.140
have any real personal kind of interest in the, um, Star Trek's

362
00:17:58.140 --> 00:17:59.940
kind of ideals and stuff.

363
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.519
Now, this woman in background who's having dinner.

364
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:04.079
She's going to be killed, right?

365
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:06.839
She's the one that gets blowed up.

366
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:08.579
She's got a lovely bit of carrot cake there.

367
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:09.119
Did you notice?

368
00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:12.779
Yeah, she does some really shit acting in that scene.

369
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:13.859
And so...

370
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:18.539
So... watches him, injecting himself.

371
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.299
Yeah, I'm just saying...

372
00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:23.460
I'm not being out of here, Nathan, let's go.

373
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:29.519
I've seen enough episodes of Star Trek to no, that's not good

374
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:29.940
news.

375
00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:37.500
Yeah, so now we're getting to see how terrible he is like what an

376
00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:39.240
absolute maniac this guy is.

377
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:43.619
And what a sort of cult leader, you know, the charismatic cult

378
00:18:43.619 --> 00:18:45.539
leader. completely charming.

379
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.559
Oh, char, hasn't he, in order to get people in places he needs

380
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:50.700
them to be to take over the ship.

381
00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:55.019
I've got to say, though, the bit where, even though I feel like

382
00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:58.799
the scene in basics where the Kazon does it in his quarters is

383
00:18:58.799 --> 00:18:59.940
much better done.

384
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:03.599
It's far more intensely shot than the sort of long shots that

385
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:04.619
Roxanne does in this.

386
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:09.900
Um, It really did make me sit up and pay attention to the

387
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:10.259
episode.

388
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:11.940
I was like, okay, shit.

389
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:13.259
There are some stakes to this now.

390
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:16.680
When they start taking over the ship, mind you, then I've started

391
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.579
getting basics vibes when all the religious leaders started taking

392
00:19:20.579 --> 00:19:22.859
over the whole of the ship, you know, there was loads of them

393
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:23.640
about on the bridge.

394
00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

395
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.819
Yeah, so is this the scene with the ultimatum where he explains

396
00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:35.160
what's been going, you know, what he thinks.

397
00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:37.980
Oh yeah, you're all about to embark on a glorious mission.

398
00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:39.960
And so we are a, yeah, yeah.

399
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:44.099
See, I really love how he does this. because he plays against what

400
00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:44.700
he's saying.

401
00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:47.460
He's not making a threat or anything like that.

402
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.700
It's kind of like I'm making you an exciting offer.

403
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:54.480
Um, and he's not playing it as a, you know, like a massage

404
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:55.319
twirling villain.

405
00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:56.700
I think it's actually pretty good.

406
00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:01.019
And I like the fact that Scott Bacula actually doesn't do an

407
00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:03.119
absurdly over the top reaction to it either.

408
00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:04.740
He's like, is he serious?

409
00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:06.420
Yeah.

410
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.079
Now, part of the problem too, here is that this guy looks too much

411
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.359
like the other guy and I can't tell them apart.

412
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:14.519
The pretty guy is about to blow himself up.

413
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:17.460
That woman's looking mildly interested.

414
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:19.559
Purple veins all over his body.

415
00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:21.599
It's not good news.

416
00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:22.500
Will you please run away?

417
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.059
Oh, no, she's been sucked out.

418
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:25.200
Nope, she's dead.

419
00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:27.420
Yes, and that's where the CGI doesn't work.

420
00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.480
Did you see a little CGI outline?

421
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:32.039
blesser.

422
00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:35.279
But this is now right.

423
00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:35.579
Okay.

424
00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.680
So we are in genuine danger from these people.

425
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:41.940
Although, I remember saying to Mark on the train, you know, he was

426
00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:43.980
getting a commentary on this episode as I was watching it.

427
00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:48.240
I remember going, why did they invite, you know, 50 people over to

428
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:48.660
the ship.

429
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.519
Like just one or 2 would be enough.

430
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.420
Oh, no, but wasn't their ship damaged or something?

431
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.859
I don't know what's happening.

432
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:01.619
I also think it's kind of weird that there's one woman among the

433
00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:04.500
religious people too, and that they're all white.

434
00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:05.819
Wow.

435
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:07.859
Like, it just struck me that everyone's wine.

436
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:09.539
And there's just one woman.

437
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:14.339
I was confused because in series three, you know, there's this

438
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:19.019
whole thread about these macos, trained soldiers on board the ship

439
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:20.940
and they do get some shooting.

440
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.640
Well, they do, but they don't do anything till the last fucking

441
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:24.119
third.

442
00:21:24.180 --> 00:21:25.619
What is the point of these people?

443
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.359
They're supposed to be the best of the best.

444
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.000
And this bunch managed to take over the ship.

445
00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:33.180
I really like this.

446
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:34.619
I really...

447
00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:35.400
Oh, when he says a lie.

448
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:38.279
I'm going to treat this person whether you hurt me or not.

449
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:39.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

450
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:40.680
Whether you want me.

451
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:43.859
You know, I'm I'm not leaving until I've treated these people.

452
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:46.619
It's really good.

453
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:48.599
Can I ask what Hoshi's up to in this episode?

454
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:53.160
Is she Venus?

455
00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:54.900
She's on the bridge at one point.

456
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.539
I'm...

457
00:21:57.539 --> 00:21:58.380
What about Mayor?

458
00:21:58.440 --> 00:21:59.759
whatever his name is.

459
00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:00.539
Is he about?

460
00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:02.160
Oh, yeah, it was in the teaser.

461
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:02.819
That's right.

462
00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:03.240
Yeah, yeah.

463
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:04.440
He got his lawyer teaser.

464
00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:05.640
You know, be grateful for that.

465
00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:07.319
Yeah, exactly.

466
00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:14.039
I did like, I liked it when he said, you know, I've just said 2 of

467
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:16.619
my, my suicide bombers to your walk core, right?

468
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.059
If you don't exceed to my demands.

469
00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:19.980
I did like that line as well.

470
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:23.460
And then the other moment that really made me sit up and pay

471
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:26.880
attention was when he said, you guys have committed heresy.

472
00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:28.140
I do like you.

473
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:29.400
I'm not going to kill everybody.

474
00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:31.380
You need to choose somebody to murder.

475
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:35.579
And for 2.5 seconds, I didn't realise, oh, of course, he's got to

476
00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:36.000
choose himself.

477
00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:39.059
I actually was like, shit, who the hell do you choose?

478
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:42.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

479
00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:43.319
Hoshi.

480
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:44.160
She don't get many lines.

481
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.539
Who would you choose on the Enterprise crew?

482
00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:52.380
Yeah, I choose Archer as well, actually, by the most amazing

483
00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:53.279
coincidence.

484
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:54.960
He's the biggest arsehole.

485
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:57.059
No, don't say to it.

486
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:57.839
Is that true, doesn't he?

487
00:22:57.900 --> 00:22:58.559
No, no, no, no, no.

488
00:22:58.619 --> 00:23:01.680
Once we're done with you, you know, your crew are going to need a

489
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:02.099
captain.

490
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.720
Assuming not.

491
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:04.500
What are they going to do?

492
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.519
Just put them off the ship.

493
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:07.920
Yeah, I guess.

494
00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:08.880
I don't know.

495
00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:09.539
I don't know.

496
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:12.119
No, they were, no, they were going to take the ship.

497
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:14.099
They were going to blow everyone up and then they were going to

498
00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:15.059
let everyone on their way.

499
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.000
Because remember, like, he says your crew will need a captain.

500
00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:20.700
So they're not intending to keep the ship.

501
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.039
They're just intending to go and blow up the heretics on their

502
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:23.460
home world.

503
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.819
I love to poll in this.

504
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:28.440
There's one thing she gets.

505
00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:32.519
One thing I learned in this episode is she has the best resting

506
00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.740
bitch face of anyone.

507
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:35.819
Oh, that is so good.

508
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:37.980
Yeah, just the look on her face.

509
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.400
And I, there are a few lines there where I was kind of mentally

510
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:46.079
adding in, you fucking idiot at the end of them, which is

511
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:47.759
obviously her signature move.

512
00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:49.680
She said they worked really well.

513
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.539
And just has eyes for daggers.

514
00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:54.480
And I was like, oh, I would not want to be on the receipt.

515
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.839
They say, you know, open fire.

516
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.380
And she just goes, no, I'm not going to do that. love that scene.

517
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.759
Yeah, so good.

518
00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:07.259
That scene earlier on where he says, look, I lost a man in that

519
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:08.279
explosion as well.

520
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:10.500
He's so mental.

521
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:11.819
It's so crazy.

522
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.539
There is something I do really like about Kurtzman Trek. is that

523
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:18.480
they remember to turn the fucking lights on so we can see people

524
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.019
in that.

525
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:20.339
I mean what is going on in this room?

526
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:21.900
Jesus Christ.

527
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.119
I think this is actually quite, this is okay.

528
00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:25.019
There's shadows.

529
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:28.200
There's, you know, backliding happening from the screens and stuff

530
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:28.559
like that.

531
00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:31.559
But do you know, like, how we talk about the lightning, as we

532
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:33.240
check, how every scene?

533
00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:36.779
It's just so beautifully lit and all the images all come at you.

534
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.059
My eyes are just going to sleep watching this.

535
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:39.720
All of it.

536
00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:42.119
Come on, Roxy.

537
00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:43.019
Put the lights on.

538
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:47.460
That exchange is really good too, where he tries to say, well, you

539
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:51.119
know, the heretics would say that about you, and his comeback is

540
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.480
well, they're wrong, you know, because they don't know the truth

541
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.000
and he says your truth, and he says, no, no, there's there's only

542
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:57.960
one truth.

543
00:24:58.019 --> 00:25:01.079
And like all of that is actually really.

544
00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:04.319
Yes, and this, you know, it doesn't matter if heretics die.

545
00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:08.700
It doesn't matter how many of them die at all, because, you know

546
00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:10.859
that's what God wants me to do.

547
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:12.660
And all of that stuff.

548
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.240
He delivers really calmly and straightforwardly.

549
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:17.759
He doesn't sound like he's unhinged or anything like that.

550
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:19.619
Does he say how good?

551
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.859
how this religion all started, how they started to believe the

552
00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:23.519
makers were.

553
00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:28.079
No, but I like, you know, it would have been something else if

554
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:29.940
this had not been in series three.

555
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.200
Do you know what I mean?

556
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:36.059
Like, and series 3 gives them something...

557
00:25:36.059 --> 00:25:37.200
Exactly.

558
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.160
Although I did find, I get the point they're trying to make when

559
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:46.079
they say the difference between the 2 sides is one day, that how

560
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:48.480
long it took for something to be built as one day.

561
00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:51.660
But I was like, oh, that's so on the nose, isn't it?

562
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:52.920
It's obvious.

563
00:25:52.980 --> 00:25:54.779
Yeah, no, I think that's terrible.

564
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.180
Like, I think it shows a real contempt for religion.

565
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:00.119
And like, I'm not religious in any way at all, and I don't find

566
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.180
the beliefs of any religious system compelling.

567
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.700
I don't really properly understand.

568
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.180
Maybe if that was being played for comedy, that might work.

569
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:09.900
Yeah.

570
00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:15.240
But like, you know, like the, and the history of Europe has, you

571
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.900
know, 2 large, well, you know, large religious groups that have

572
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:22.920
differed from one another in ways that just look stupid from

573
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:23.700
outside.

574
00:26:23.819 --> 00:26:26.940
And obviously those are not the real reasons.

575
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:28.259
Do you know what I mean?

576
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:32.160
Like, the schism, the great schism doesn't happen really because

577
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:36.960
one side thinks the word filioque belongs in the Nicene Creed and

578
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:38.279
the other one doesn't, right?

579
00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:38.880
That's stupid.

580
00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:39.900
That's not...

581
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.480
That is what they're suggesting less than that. that's what

582
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:43.079
they're suggesting.

583
00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.960
They're just saying religious people believe dumbass random things

584
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.259
and then they go around blowing the rest of us up. how it's

585
00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:49.740
slightly different.

586
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:53.099
They've gone to holy war and lots of people have been murdered.

587
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:54.059
Okay.

588
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:56.700
Thank you, Enterprise are pointing that out.

589
00:26:56.819 --> 00:27:01.500
So you don't have a backup on enterprise, aren't you?

590
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:02.759
This isn't all on Dropbox.

591
00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:04.619
Like, I don't know what's happening. is deleting all of the

592
00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:04.920
files.

593
00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:06.119
This is a common edition.

594
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:07.500
This issue you have with Star Trek.

595
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.319
Do you remember on the Voyager episode?

596
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:10.920
What was that?

597
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:13.259
19.3 XB.

598
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:15.000
That seems like a lot of data.

599
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:20.160
I think this file's going to be bigger than that, you know?

600
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.700
That's right, this episode.

601
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.599
Oh, so now he tries to reach out to the, you know, sympathetic

602
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:28.680
cult member.

603
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:29.519
The pretty one.

604
00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:31.619
I keep calling it a cult...

605
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:32.099
They not really.

606
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.859
They're just religious fanatics, but...

607
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:35.940
It's sort of the same thing.

608
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:37.859
Yeah, it is being portrayed that way, is it?

609
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:38.700
TV religion.

610
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:40.920
Yeah, yeah.

611
00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:45.180
Yeah, but, like, look what we had with, look what we look.

612
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:50.160
I think that the original conception of Star Trek, which is a post

613
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:54.359
religious society where no one in the original 2 series had any

614
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:58.319
religious commitments, and we rarely heard about religion.

615
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:00.059
And I think that's good.

616
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:01.019
Do you know what I mean?

617
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:02.880
Like, I think that, you know, that's fine.

618
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.240
And that's a sort of utopian future, like whatever.

619
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:07.200
Look at Kira.

620
00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:09.539
It's so interesting. look at Kira.

621
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:10.680
Exactly right.

622
00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:14.519
And you get to deal with religion sympathetically as a feature and

623
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:19.380
really probably an ineradicable feature of human experience.

624
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.599
And so what is it?

625
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:22.440
Do you know what I mean?

626
00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:24.119
And how do adherents feel about it?

627
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:28.740
These are cartoon religious people, and they're just here to say

628
00:28:28.740 --> 00:28:32.940
the reason that Muslims don't like us is because they believe

629
00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:37.200
irrational, stupid things for no reason out of sheer perversity.

630
00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:40.380
And that's not good enough, I think.

631
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.619
So you're saying, just don't go, if you're not going to...

632
00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:47.039
Well, I think that this is just a sort of kind of pro-American

633
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:51.359
cartoon about religion and about our enemies and how terrible they

634
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:51.900
are.

635
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.380
And so I think there's a sort of just a massive level of bullshit

636
00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:58.200
here that doesn't belong in Star Trek, to be honest.

637
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:02.339
But I don't think it's a bad Star Trek episode apart from that.

638
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:05.759
Like, I think, you know, as, and, because the other thing that's

639
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:08.579
super interesting, is that she's gone to Dr. Flock's for an

640
00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:12.119
abortion, and he won't give her one yet because he doesn't know

641
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:16.920
enough about their physiology, because he can't scan them because

642
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:22.980
they're full of bombs, and, and, the show itself doesn't seem to

643
00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:27.420
say that's a bad thing, and it never gets resolved, and her

644
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:30.480
reasons for wanting an abortion, which is she doesn't want her

645
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:34.019
child to grow up in a world ruled by this dipshit. like Like, that

646
00:29:34.019 --> 00:29:37.619
seems to me, to be absolutely rationalised, seems to the show to

647
00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:38.279
be rational.

648
00:29:38.339 --> 00:29:41.400
I think that's actually a surprisingly progressive view of

649
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.119
abortion for a show, you know, from a country that's so insane

650
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:45.720
about it.

651
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:51.480
Are you saying then that religion cannot only really be handled in

652
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:57.480
Star Trek, effectively, sensitively, if it's being told sort of

653
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:01.740
long form over a series rather than a glimpse in an episode?

654
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:06.599
Oh, no, I think that you could do a well-written episode that was

655
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.119
sort of sympathetic and had interesting things to say about

656
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:10.200
religion could do it.

657
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:12.359
I mean, obviously do it.

658
00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:14.279
I think confident it was a great episode of DS Knight.

659
00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:15.839
There's nothing sensitive about it.

660
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:16.859
No, no.

661
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:18.960
It's absurd, but it's fun.

662
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:25.140
At the moment in Star Trek Discovery season five, Q is going on

663
00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:30.599
some kind of spiritual journey and I actually half think, oh my

664
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.359
god, that just sounds terrible woo woo nonsense.

665
00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:37.319
But on the other hand, I sort of think that might be an

666
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:39.599
interesting thing for discovery to do on the way out.

667
00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:44.220
But we've talked in the past about Cisco's journey in DS9, where

668
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:45.900
he starts off gone.

669
00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:51.119
We're having one of those speeches, one of those backstory

670
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:52.380
backstories.

671
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:54.180
Oh, we go, yeah.

672
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.400
I knew there was one action I had to take.

673
00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:59.279
I had to kill the 6 year old kid.

674
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.160
You're proud of that, aren't you?

675
00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:02.759
No.

676
00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:05.339
I love his response.

677
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:06.839
No, that's not what he says.

678
00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:09.059
The makers are blessed ones.

679
00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:11.940
Yeah, that's great, isn't it?

680
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:15.359
But go back to Cisco quickly.

681
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.960
Well, because he sort of finds religion, doesn't he, throughout

682
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:19.259
the show?

683
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:23.339
He starts off, you know, learning about the prophets and then we

684
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:24.900
have the 1st half of the series.

685
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.420
That's 4 seasons where he pushes against that.

686
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.359
I don't want to be the emissary. is a bit of a chore.

687
00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:33.359
And then somewhere in the middle, that gets taken off him.

688
00:31:33.420 --> 00:31:35.940
He's like, Jesus Christ, I was doing such good for those people.

689
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:36.599
Look at this.

690
00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:38.880
Look at this arsehole coming in and ruining it.

691
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:40.859
No, I'm going to embrace this.

692
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.859
And then by the end, obviously he finds out he's from the

693
00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:44.460
prophets.

694
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.839
That's where he came from.

695
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:50.160
And I mean, it sounds try, but it works.

696
00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:54.480
I think a lot of it's accidental, but it works.

697
00:31:55.140 --> 00:32:00.180
Don't don't you think it's interesting, his reaction, that Deja

698
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:04.619
Matt's reaction to the choice that Archer has made, and he's

699
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:06.059
hostile to that choice.

700
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:09.359
You know, like Archer can only make that choice.

701
00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:11.279
How can you justifiably make any other choice?

702
00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:12.059
He's the captain.

703
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:14.700
I'd respect him more. to kill someone.

704
00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:19.980
But just kill Malcolm, no one will know.

705
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.619
Have that line, Brad Dora, if I had.

706
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:24.720
I didn't like the way he looked at me. choose him.

707
00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:25.680
You know?

708
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:26.640
Yeah, yeah.

709
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:27.359
Yeah.

710
00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:30.839
But he's kind of shocked and staff.

711
00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:31.920
Yeah here we go.

712
00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:35.400
Yeah, but this is like this is beyond lame now.

713
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:37.980
And I know they don't know what a transporter is.

714
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.400
But we do, so we know exact, but the next 3 scenes.

715
00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:43.740
We know how this is all going to play out and it shouldn't be this

716
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.339
predictable.

717
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:48.180
When that bomb went off earlier in the episode, I was shocked

718
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:49.500
didn't think they'd go that far.

719
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:53.940
Now it's like, and then in the last 3rd, you said this before this

720
00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:55.140
was a good episode of Star Trek.

721
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.180
I think it starts off as a good episode of Star Trek.

722
00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.519
But by the end, it's also predictable.

723
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.440
Yeah, I think just as well, you know, like I'm entertained by the

724
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:05.339
action and stuff.

725
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:06.779
It not particularly thoughtful and stuff.

726
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:11.640
I think, again, this is playing on the idea as well that our

727
00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:17.700
religious enemies are primitive and stupid and easily kind of, um

728
00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:21.359
easily tricked, and they don't have to go to any effort.

729
00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:22.680
He never, ever pushes back.

730
00:33:22.740 --> 00:33:26.279
He never once for a 2nd considers this might be a hoax.

731
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:29.400
We know as well that this obviously, I mean, we know anyway, but

732
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:32.339
we know because none of the way this is filmed, suggesting

733
00:33:32.339 --> 00:33:33.059
somebody dying.

734
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:36.539
It's all done, you know, very near, isn't it, the way it's done?

735
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

736
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:39.299
Paul doesn't even react.

737
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.160
You know, there's no swelling music or anything.

738
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:45.059
Not like when Jad Seaer died, you know, in a hail of fire and

739
00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:45.299
music.

740
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:47.700
Yeah, yeah.

741
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:51.059
If Archer went out this way, it would be very anticlimactic.

742
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:52.019
Very boring.

743
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.240
Wow, that's enterprise, isn't it?

744
00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:55.740
Yeah.

745
00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.180
But look, I actually quite like, again, this guy O'Farrell's just

746
00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:01.380
reactions to all of this.

747
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:05.460
And look, Tupol's doing some acting.

748
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:06.720
His praying.

749
00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:10.619
Yeah, he's doing the Bajoran sort of nonsense speak, you know, that

750
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:11.219
they just make up.

751
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:13.380
Oh, just say something, use some consonants.

752
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.099
Yeah, yeah.

753
00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:20.039
So now we know Archer's somewhere on the ship.

754
00:34:20.099 --> 00:34:22.139
So I was like, okay, so this could be quite interesting now.

755
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:24.119
He's going to run rings around them a lot.

756
00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:27.300
Actually, it didn't really play out in a especially dynamic way.

757
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:28.800
No.

758
00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:34.019
In fact, what he does is he gets a chance to persuade Yarik to, you

759
00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:34.920
know, change the size.

760
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:37.079
He texts Dr. Flock, so doesn't he?

761
00:34:37.139 --> 00:34:41.519
Which, very obviously, I thought that was actually pretty great.

762
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:44.820
I was watching the graphics though, going, oh, this is so

763
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:45.480
primitive.

764
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:49.860
The funny thing is that no other Star Trek would ever have done

765
00:34:49.860 --> 00:34:50.579
that, I think.

766
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.179
Like the chorus, this is 2001 and we're all texting one another.

767
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:57.900
I do like the fact we know it's Archer because he says don't

768
00:34:57.900 --> 00:34:59.159
figure him cheese about the dog.

769
00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:03.719
Yes, don't feed Porthos cheese, and we've mentioned Porthos then.

770
00:35:03.719 --> 00:35:04.619
Fucking dog.

771
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:05.579
For God's sake.

772
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:09.059
That the Dr. Flogs will be looking after him.

773
00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:12.780
If there's one thing that we've discovered about Nathan and I, an

774
00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:16.139
untitled Star Trek project, is that Nathan has far more sympathy

775
00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:18.960
and patience with children and dogs than I do.

776
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:20.099
No, they're awesome.

777
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:21.719
There should be more of them on TV.

778
00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:25.320
Although I did like that dog's that terrible fake dog

779
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:27.119
suspended...

780
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:28.920
They were drilling a hole in the head.

781
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.340
So bizarre.

782
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:33.840
Because that'll be fun.

783
00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:35.820
It's so strange.

784
00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:37.320
Oh, dear.

785
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:38.460
That's right.

786
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:39.480
The fella behind him there.

787
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:41.400
Look, the religious guy is a bit suspicious.

788
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.340
Also type it out on that on that console.

789
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:45.599
So much fun.

790
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.380
Oh, there he is.

791
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:48.119
And then cut, there's the dog.

792
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:49.679
The dog's reacting.

793
00:35:49.739 --> 00:35:52.139
Beyond a night in sick bay.

794
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.460
Has he ever used as a plot point?

795
00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:55.320
Again, isn't it?

796
00:35:55.380 --> 00:36:00.599
He is down on board the he's down on the planet in Strangely World

797
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:01.079
isn't he?

798
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:06.239
Oh, all of that's left my brain in, I'm honest, for good reason.

799
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:07.619
No, that's got the joke.

800
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:08.280
He's...

801
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.619
Don't believe me.

802
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:14.219
He's only got to stare at her screaming until hilarious. just

803
00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:14.519
wonderful.

804
00:36:14.579 --> 00:36:16.619
There's so much of him in this.

805
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:21.239
I love I love how they put him in this sort of ill fitting

806
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:21.719
costume.

807
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:26.940
You know, he's got no interest in looking sexy on telly, does he?

808
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:31.739
No, but I think he's got a rather sort of louche 70s sexiness, 70s

809
00:36:31.739 --> 00:36:32.940
style sexiness.

810
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.679
Like, you've said this.

811
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:35.400
I love that.

812
00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:38.699
Like, I can say that he's a swarm. especially when he talks about

813
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:40.739
you know, co-husbands and all of this.

814
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.360
Yeah, yeah, he's definitely...

815
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:44.699
Which co-husband are you fucking this week, my love?

816
00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:49.559
Oh, I tried to think what he gets up to in progress.

817
00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:50.760
Probably best we don't find out.

818
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:52.860
Oh, yi, yi.

819
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:53.880
Okay.

820
00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:54.900
What's going on?

821
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:58.199
So archer's in the Jeffries tubes and he's just kidnapped one of

822
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:04.320
them and he's tricorded him so that we can... yeah there we go.

823
00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:06.900
And so now Billingsley has found the weapon.

824
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.699
Action was very well shot, but actually there's a few bits, you

825
00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:14.519
know, where people are shot by phasers where they do very

826
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:16.440
laboured...

827
00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:19.079
Looking forward to seeing that. keep an eye out for it.

828
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.519
Oh, so much gross.

829
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.440
And is everyone just being a dick here?

830
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:30.420
Like, are they all being uncooperative?

831
00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:33.719
Because they keep saying, oh, Archer's pulling all the plugs out

832
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:34.320
and stuff.

833
00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:37.679
So maybe that explains it. to poll, yeah, playing innocent.

834
00:37:37.739 --> 00:37:39.480
I can't identify the location.

835
00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:40.079
I'm sorry.

836
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.780
This console doesn't do that, yeah.

837
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:43.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

838
00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:46.260
No, but look at him. pulling all of the bloods out.

839
00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:47.280
Oh, man, no man.

840
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:50.159
I really love that engineering set.

841
00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:52.559
Just the physicality and engineering.

842
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:53.099
Yeah, yeah.

843
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:53.699
Yeah, yeah.

844
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.460
It might be my favourite of all of them, you know.

845
00:37:56.519 --> 00:38:00.480
I still think that the one with the wall in Strange New Worlds is

846
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.800
pretty damn incredible.

847
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:05.099
Well, you can't really climb all over it.

848
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:06.000
No, that's true.

849
00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:07.679
It just sort of goes off into the distance.

850
00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:09.000
But it is stunning.

851
00:38:09.059 --> 00:38:13.019
Oh, Connor Tranilla looking absolutely gorgeous. isn't pretty.

852
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:13.500
Bless him.

853
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:14.460
Yeah.

854
00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:17.820
Yeah, look, the way you shot that film.

855
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:19.380
Just wait a 2nd.

856
00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:23.099
That was so boring.

857
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:24.539
That was unbelievable.

858
00:38:24.659 --> 00:38:27.360
I'm not sure how you can do it well, if I'm honest, you know, being

859
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:28.320
hit by a phaser.

860
00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:34.739
They're a bit better in DSI and Voyager, that sort of thing.

861
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:36.119
Yeah.

862
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:37.199
What is it about?

863
00:38:37.260 --> 00:38:40.559
Is this what the makers really want to kill people, but the

864
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:41.039
thousands?

865
00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:41.760
Yes.

866
00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:42.780
Yeah, yeah.

867
00:38:42.780 --> 00:38:44.219
That's exactly what they wanted to do.

868
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.159
But what he's relying on the fact is that a normal person is going

869
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.400
to think, that's terrible, you know, like, that's kind of mad.

870
00:38:50.579 --> 00:38:53.099
Um, yeah.

871
00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:57.300
Oh, bless this guy doing some serious acting in this bit of alter

872
00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:58.079
bless him.

873
00:38:58.139 --> 00:38:59.280
Yeah, I think he is pretty good.

874
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:00.599
I think he's pretty great.

875
00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:02.699
He's got a career ahead of him I think.

876
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:04.199
Well, he's got something ahead of him probably.

877
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:08.460
As for Scott Bacula, where his career ends here, okay, with this

878
00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:09.239
dreary character.

879
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:13.800
I know I'll say it in every episode.

880
00:39:13.860 --> 00:39:17.820
I just can't reconcile him with that charismatic man that William

881
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:21.900
Shatner met on the farm playing his guitar and sitting on a horse

882
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:23.280
just so likeable.

883
00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:25.199
How is that Captain Archer?

884
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:30.719
Those ships, they do look a bit sort of Kazon-esque, don't you

885
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:30.840
think?

886
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:32.159
Yeah, they, yeah.

887
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:33.719
Yeah. think they're pretty good.

888
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:34.980
Like, I think they look great.

889
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.159
They're kind of a little bit like slave one about, you know, Boba

890
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:39.059
Fett's ship, you know.

891
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:40.260
Yeah here we go.

892
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:43.320
Another thing we've learned in untitled Star Trek project is

893
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:46.079
Nathan has a bit more of a hard on for Starship design, yeah.

894
00:39:46.139 --> 00:39:48.599
So again, do you know what I mean?

895
00:39:48.659 --> 00:39:51.719
There's just reductive idea that religious people just have wars

896
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:52.800
about stupid things.

897
00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:55.980
It's kind of like you do understand those things are almost

898
00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.960
certainly pretexts for something else.

899
00:39:58.019 --> 00:40:01.199
You know, it's yeah, here we go.

900
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:04.800
Dr. Flocks has synthesised an enzyme, you know?

901
00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:05.639
Airborne.

902
00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:09.239
No, good for him. it's airborne, so it just deactivates all of

903
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:11.219
their trigger mechanisms, which is pretty cool.

904
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.679
Now, do you recognise this guy on the screen?

905
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:15.719
Oh, who is it?

906
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:16.139
Tell me.

907
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:19.800
It is Solok in from Take Me Out to the Holo Suite.

908
00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:24.900
It's the Vulcan captain.

909
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:30.719
Last scene in a much better problem in that episode, didn't he?

910
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.199
Do you remember the unrestrained anger between him and Cisco?

911
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:38.280
Have a seat.

912
00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:39.239
It was so good.

913
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:39.840
It was great.

914
00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:40.800
That's such a great episode.

915
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:41.760
Holy crap.

916
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:48.420
And in a way, enterprises the story of, you know, guests and semi

917
00:40:47.219 --> 00:40:51.480
regulars in much better episodes and much better shows, getting to

918
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:55.619
have their last go on Star Trek, you know, in something somewhat

919
00:40:55.619 --> 00:41:00.599
inferior. disappointed girl on Star Trek.

920
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:05.340
Just in case you were thinking of doing this again.

921
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:06.480
This is how bad it's got now.

922
00:41:06.539 --> 00:41:08.820
I quite like, oh, there you go.

923
00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:09.420
Come on.

924
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:11.639
I'll give him a Vulcan neck pinch or something.

925
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:14.099
Did you see Tapold doing a bit of Emma Peel?

926
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.460
I thought that she might get on there and do a bit of a neck pinch

927
00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:19.320
but apparently, do we do that?

928
00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:20.460
Do they do that?

929
00:41:20.460 --> 00:41:21.780
Should have kicked the shit out of him.

930
00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:23.880
Oh, here we go.

931
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:25.440
This is awesome.

932
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:26.940
So the bat is so great.

933
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:28.800
Don't let him bite you.

934
00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:29.639
He's poisonous.

935
00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:31.260
It's so funny.

936
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:34.260
No, firstly, he's just said, don't worry, it's harmless.

937
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.139
But then later on, unless it's agitated.

938
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:42.420
Oh, no, the payoff, though, the comic payoff when he goes, you're

939
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:44.639
going to get an extra porcelain of Snow Beatles tonight.

940
00:41:44.699 --> 00:41:46.139
Love that line.

941
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:47.340
Oh, my little girl.

942
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:48.119
I love that.

943
00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:50.699
Oh, it was wonderful.

944
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.480
I mean, why isn't why doesn't flocks just run every episode?

945
00:41:54.539 --> 00:41:56.340
It's so good. so much fun.

946
00:41:57.179 --> 00:42:00.420
I think he's the one character they chill out with.

947
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:01.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

948
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:04.860
Yeah, he gets to be silly and kind of enjoyable and it's partly

949
00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:06.239
because he's alien, I think.

950
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.619
Well, I didn't understand after 4 years.

951
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.960
I didn't realise, actually, it's really working with Dr. Flocks.

952
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:14.639
Why don't we just do it with the rest of them?

953
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:20.400
So we did have denobulence very heavily name checked in discovery

954
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:21.239
a couple of weeks ago.

955
00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:27.840
I just would like to point out that Merriweather, Mayweather, did

956
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:28.679
just get a shot.

957
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:31.320
He didn't get a line, but he got a shot. appear on the screen.

958
00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:32.400
Excellent.

959
00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:33.960
Yeah, careful.

960
00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:35.760
No antidote for the venom.

961
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.539
Then he just hyposphrases.

962
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:40.559
And then does it land on him?

963
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:41.760
Or is it still flying around?

964
00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:43.019
Oh, for you, young lady.

965
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:44.699
Yeah, for you, young lady?

966
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:45.360
That's awesome.

967
00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:46.679
Is it wonderful?

968
00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:48.599
How does he get hold of her, he doesn't.

969
00:42:48.659 --> 00:42:51.000
Oh, and there was something, this is going to seem like a bizarre

970
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:51.539
observation.

971
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.360
There was something I really liked about him screwing in this

972
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:58.019
liquid and then we watched the liquid going down because normally

973
00:42:58.019 --> 00:42:59.340
we're just told, aren't we?

974
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:01.139
We're sold, oh, there's an agent in the air.

975
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:04.019
They actually like the brass fittings and stuff, the things that

976
00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:06.719
are like milled metal that look really...

977
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:11.280
They have definitely put some detail in the design of that to make

978
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:15.719
it look more like our technology than just space technology, which

979
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:16.320
I really like.

980
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:17.280
Look at it, look at that.

981
00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:20.460
There's a, you know, a washer with a nut and stuff, you know, like

982
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:22.800
it just looks like a Mecano set or something.

983
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:27.420
So this is sort of the action you was talking about now. 2 levels

984
00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:31.500
phaser shots, hiding behind gantries and staircases and things.

985
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:32.760
Yeah, yeah, that's kind of fun.

986
00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:35.820
It's not, it's, it's competent, I'd say.

987
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:36.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

988
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:40.440
I think it's a bit more like, yeah, go on.

989
00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:41.760
Where's this episode going now?

990
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:45.719
Yeah, well, I just think we sort of shoot one another until we get

991
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:50.519
off the ship or something until we, you know, we kind of, is there

992
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:51.300
a big setback?

993
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.679
What we need has come some kind of moment where, you know, we

994
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:56.699
think something's going to happen.

995
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.980
We think that they're they're winning and then something

996
00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:01.500
disastrous happens and then they don't. then there's another

997
00:44:01.500 --> 00:44:02.699
reversal, don't we?

998
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:04.500
Is it just all a bit too linear?

999
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:05.400
Is it too easy?

1000
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:08.519
you know, discovery would discovery would have an ending like this

1001
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:10.739
you know, with phase of fights and one, it would look more

1002
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:11.219
impressive.

1003
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:13.980
And two, there'd also be like a thematic conclusion.

1004
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.300
A character, you know, decision made and we'd learn something

1005
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:18.659
about them.

1006
00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:22.500
It wouldn't just be, okay, well, we need to get on with this indie

1007
00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:22.920
arc now.

1008
00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:26.099
So let's get these people off the ship as fast as we can. when

1009
00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:28.860
they talked about how much they all loved one another and then

1010
00:44:28.860 --> 00:44:30.000
we'd go into the closing credits.

1011
00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:31.079
Oh yes.

1012
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:34.619
Michael would stare off camera with tears in her eyes.

1013
00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:39.780
Look, we're shooting the fuck out of these guys.

1014
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:40.500
That's awesome.

1015
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:44.699
I don't know why there's only one woman among the cultists.

1016
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:46.380
How much better is this?

1017
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:49.440
Do you remember indeeds on the voyages where those that those

1018
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:51.300
terrible pirates took over the ship?

1019
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:52.619
It was so boring.

1020
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:54.599
How much better resist than that?

1021
00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:58.199
Yeah, yeah, like Connor's not having to kill himself here, but

1022
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:02.219
there's heaps more people with more guns and stuff, but, you know

1023
00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:03.900
suddenly and these are the voyages.

1024
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.079
Tripp goes, oh, well, nothing for it, but to kill myself at this

1025
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:09.119
point, you know, like, it just seems so...

1026
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:11.400
I can't help but notice, so you all seem to have forgotten that

1027
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.519
they are suicide bombers and they could just blow up parts of the

1028
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.320
ship doesn't work.

1029
00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:18.659
And the other one has just pulled out his thing to stick in his

1030
00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:20.760
hand and he gets shot before it happens.

1031
00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:23.820
They have waited about 10 minutes, though, to reach that

1032
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:24.360
conclusion.

1033
00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:27.360
But we have had some scenes of them trying to do it, which I think

1034
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:28.320
is sort of reasonable.

1035
00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:32.639
I love this woman who is trying to decide whether to shoot.

1036
00:45:32.699 --> 00:45:34.139
Is it Reid?

1037
00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:38.639
She's head bitch macco shoes.

1038
00:45:38.699 --> 00:45:41.940
And then she just gets thrown against the wall and stuff like this

1039
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:43.980
is all a bit kind of a bit shit, I think.

1040
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:47.219
You know, like it's not terribly badly directed, but it's a bit of

1041
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:48.659
a waste of time.

1042
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:51.059
Malcolm Reese action hero.

1043
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:51.960
Look at that.

1044
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.300
He can punch like an absolute man.

1045
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:55.860
Nathan, I'm perfectly convinced.

1046
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:58.860
Malcolm Breed is the worst character in all of Star Trek.

1047
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:01.559
I did like how pregnant.

1048
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:02.460
What's her name?

1049
00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:06.599
In Darver or whatever her name is gets to shoot the guy.

1050
00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:10.860
Like, so husband and wife are both kind of, they've both changed

1051
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:11.639
sides.

1052
00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:15.659
Okay, so I think that's it.

1053
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:17.639
We've got the shit back, but there's still 5 minutes to go.

1054
00:46:17.699 --> 00:46:18.420
What?

1055
00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:18.719
Well.

1056
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:20.280
Yeah.

1057
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:22.019
We're going to come to some sort of a conclusion.

1058
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:24.480
Oh, of course, we're going down onto the planet, aren't we?

1059
00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:27.599
Yeah, so one of the things that I did is research for this is I

1060
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:31.980
watch the end of Let This Be at your last battlefield, because it

1061
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:33.059
has a very...

1062
00:46:33.059 --> 00:46:36.119
Ah, because they invite comparison on memory, don't they?

1063
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:38.519
And so what do you have is the 2 people running through the ship

1064
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:42.719
one of whom's Frank Gautian, I think, with the, you know, white

1065
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:43.679
and black faces.

1066
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:45.840
I've never watched it all the way through, but obviously I'm aware

1067
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:46.199
of it.

1068
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:51.000
And the same conclusion is that their hatred for one another has

1069
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.440
destroyed their planet.

1070
00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:56.219
And so, uh, it's it's really kind of an interesting looking

1071
00:46:56.219 --> 00:46:56.820
scene.

1072
00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:58.380
Oh, here we go.

1073
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:02.460
Is that then the foregone conclusion to our holy walls?

1074
00:47:02.699 --> 00:47:06.960
No, no, because I think that people can still be reasoned with.

1075
00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:08.159
Do you know what I mean?

1076
00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:08.940
Like, that's the point.

1077
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.599
The point isn't that these people are massively different from

1078
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:13.920
us.

1079
00:47:13.980 --> 00:47:14.579
Do you know what I mean?

1080
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:18.659
Like people still love and like people, some people are maniacs

1081
00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:21.179
all of that, but just because someone's religious doesn't mean

1082
00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:22.860
that they can't be reasoned with.

1083
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:24.599
That's not how it works.

1084
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:25.739
I don't think.

1085
00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:28.320
You know, I don't know.

1086
00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:28.980
I don't know.

1087
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:30.480
Maybe religion does make people.

1088
00:47:30.539 --> 00:47:31.860
What are we trying to say in that last scene?

1089
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:36.599
Well, I just think like what they're trying to say is that all of

1090
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:41.639
the destruction and devastation that you people experience is your

1091
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:45.659
own fault for being so religious and and so intransigent and stuff

1092
00:47:45.659 --> 00:47:46.019
like that.

1093
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:49.139
Maybe it just wasn't as subtle as I was suggesting about the

1094
00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:49.380
start.

1095
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:51.179
I think that's a bad message too.

1096
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:53.400
You know, like I just think that's awful.

1097
00:47:54.059 --> 00:47:57.539
Well, surely that doesn't, if you're sort of projecting that

1098
00:47:57.539 --> 00:48:01.079
message to people via television, surely you're suggesting that we

1099
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:02.519
hate all religious people.

1100
00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:08.099
I mean, that's no good, but look at, look at England. you know

1101
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:08.519
what I mean?

1102
00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:10.440
Like there are Catholics and they're a Protestant.

1103
00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:12.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're in it.

1104
00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:13.860
I don't have to be.

1105
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:16.199
Miserable, just looking out the door now.

1106
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:18.780
But there are Catholics and Protestants.

1107
00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:23.400
Two groups of people who fought for 100s and 100s of years, but

1108
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.139
don't find anymore. wouldn't dream of it.

1109
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:25.920
Do you know what I mean?

1110
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:29.579
And they disagree on matters of doctrine, but they don't fight one

1111
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:30.360
another over.

1112
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:33.059
It doesn't have to end like that, you know?

1113
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:39.300
Um, Yeah, so we've persuaded Solok, what have we persuaded him to

1114
00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:39.480
do?

1115
00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:41.039
Oh, that...

1116
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.000
I quite like how he just goes.

1117
00:48:45.059 --> 00:48:47.159
He just kind of goes, yeah, all right, I'll go.

1118
00:48:47.460 --> 00:48:48.659
He doesn't say anything.

1119
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:50.519
I was done with this anyway.

1120
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:51.780
My favourite show's on soon.

1121
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:53.579
He just looks at him.

1122
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:55.380
I thought that was actually quite a good response.

1123
00:48:57.179 --> 00:48:58.619
Okay.

1124
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:04.139
So, okay, so if this if this episode isn't really trying to

1125
00:49:04.139 --> 00:49:10.260
examine religion in a very thoughtful way and if this episode

1126
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:16.679
isn't a part of the larger picture of the season, what are we

1127
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:16.980
doing?

1128
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:17.579
Just filling an hour?

1129
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:18.599
Well, no, no.

1130
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:22.500
I think I think that what we're doing is they think what Star Trek

1131
00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:26.639
does, which Star Trek takes a social issue and examines it through

1132
00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:28.380
the lens of the show.

1133
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:30.059
And so I think they're doing that.

1134
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:32.400
And I think they do it well.

1135
00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:37.920
They examine an issue and they construct a fairly exciting piece

1136
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.579
of television around it with a good guest star and all of that

1137
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:42.059
sort of thing.

1138
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:45.960
I just think that what they're saying about religion is awful and

1139
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:50.519
kind of, you know, just upsettingly crap.

1140
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:54.480
And so is this the wrong time to tell this episode?

1141
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:56.099
Well, I just think it's the wrong thing.

1142
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:59.579
Yeah, I just think it's a, given their reaction, given what

1143
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:00.599
they're doing this thing.

1144
00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:02.219
Well, I think that's why they're telling it.

1145
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:05.639
I mean, they're telling it as, you know, here's another angle at

1146
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:08.820
which, you know, from which we can examine 911, essentially.

1147
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.039
Yeah.

1148
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:12.059
Oh, yeah, this doesn't work.

1149
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:13.380
Final effect shot.

1150
00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:15.659
Not really.

1151
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.380
I mean, I don't mind so much the the landscape.

1152
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:20.760
I think that's okay.

1153
00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:25.500
You start putting actual people into it. and it's very off. great.

1154
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:26.400
Do you know what I mean?

1155
00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:30.539
But they just can't blend the people against the backdrop, can

1156
00:50:30.539 --> 00:50:30.780
they?

1157
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:32.340
Not in the way they can now.

1158
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:33.719
Yeah.

1159
00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:34.920
And I don't know what it is.

1160
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:37.380
Oh actually, no, some of the some of the buildings look a bit

1161
00:50:37.380 --> 00:50:37.980
cartoony.

1162
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:40.920
It's something about the lighting and you're never really

1163
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:43.920
convinced, I think, that they're outdoors.

1164
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:45.179
You know what I mean?

1165
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:48.300
So this is Archer basically going, well, fuck you guys.

1166
00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:49.619
Look, this is where it all leads to.

1167
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:53.519
Yeah, yeah. that's right Stop believing what you believe, all

1168
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:53.760
right?

1169
00:50:53.820 --> 00:50:54.719
Oh, you're all going to die.

1170
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.340
That's miserable.

1171
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:02.099
Yeah, so this is the pace that your faith will bring, you know

1172
00:51:02.099 --> 00:51:05.280
like, um, and then he just leaves him.

1173
00:51:05.579 --> 00:51:09.360
DS no, I never took this angle with the Bajorans.

1174
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:10.559
No, no.

1175
00:51:10.619 --> 00:51:15.360
I mean, it questioned it, and sometimes it gave it a negative

1176
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:15.960
sphere.

1177
00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:16.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1178
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:20.639
But it was always shown that like that, yeah, oh, well, fabulous.

1179
00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:25.500
It always showed that the faith gave Kira strength, you know?

1180
00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:30.119
Yeah. and that sort of highlighted the community aspect of

1181
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.000
religion. just all the good sides of religion.

1182
00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:33.360
Yeah.

1183
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:33.960
Yeah.

1184
00:51:34.019 --> 00:51:36.599
Like I said, I've got no religious commitment at all.

1185
00:51:36.659 --> 00:51:40.619
I don't really have a dog in this game, but I think that that's a

1186
00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:45.059
kind of weird, self-justifying and fairly simplistic take on what

1187
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:50.460
was going on to lead up to 9-11. and the role that religion played

1188
00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:50.760
in that.

1189
00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:54.360
And I think religion does play an enabling role and can get people

1190
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:58.139
to do terrible things that they might not otherwise do.

1191
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:00.360
But that's not all there is to religion.

1192
00:52:00.420 --> 00:52:04.920
And there were other things going on.

1193
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:08.579
Do you think this would have been a better episode of this was a

1194
00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:10.860
more sympathetic portrayal of religion?

1195
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:16.619
Well, like, I think if you want to say, yeah, I don't know.

1196
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:17.280
I don't know.

1197
00:52:17.340 --> 00:52:21.780
Like, I just think saying that religion is a very bad thing and

1198
00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:27.780
our religious enemies are just perverse and don't value human life

1199
00:52:27.780 --> 00:52:32.699
and are behaving in a way that is ultimately self-destructive and

1200
00:52:32.699 --> 00:52:36.599
all of the ruin and misery in which they live their lives is their

1201
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:37.139
fault.

1202
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.739
I think that that's simplistic and self-justifying.

1203
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:44.280
And I think it's an ugly message for Star Trek to be saying.

1204
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:49.739
A very odd message for the Americans to be making, a staunchly

1205
00:52:49.739 --> 00:52:50.820
religious story.

1206
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.860
No, I think it's other people's religion.

1207
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:53.579
That's the problem.

1208
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:56.460
Although Manny Corto, I think those people.

1209
00:52:56.519 --> 00:53:00.960
Yeah, but I also think too, that, you know, that Star Trek does

1210
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:05.760
depict a post-religious human society where religion and money and

1211
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:08.760
stuff like that has all been sort of more or less left behind.

1212
00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:16.079
And so in that context, is religion a kind of a thing that we

1213
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:18.780
don't have anymore that we're too enlightened to have.

1214
00:53:18.780 --> 00:53:22.619
And so now we can sort of say terrible things about religion

1215
00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:25.559
because we never examine any kind of good religion.

1216
00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:26.820
Do you know what I mean?

1217
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:30.659
Or any, any characters, any human characters whose religion

1218
00:53:30.659 --> 00:53:34.199
provokes them to behave well and be kind to people.

1219
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:38.880
We didn't start doing it until after Roddenberry died.

1220
00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:41.880
He vetoed religion in the next generation.

1221
00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:43.260
We're not touching it at all.

1222
00:53:43.260 --> 00:53:44.519
Don't do it.

1223
00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:47.099
And I think that's kind of okay, but I do think it actually just

1224
00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:50.099
freezes out a whole heap of really interesting stuff and the Deep

1225
00:53:50.099 --> 00:53:51.719
Space 9 was right to do it.

1226
00:53:51.780 --> 00:53:55.320
I mean, I mean, just Kai win alone justifies.

1227
00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:00.780
Yeah, really great stuff and like credible stuff and making fun of

1228
00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:02.159
American civil religion.

1229
00:54:02.219 --> 00:54:02.880
Do you know what I mean?

1230
00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:07.380
Kai Wing is like a right wing, you know, Christo fascist kind of

1231
00:54:07.380 --> 00:54:12.059
leader of the kind that exists in America and she's great.

1232
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:13.559
She's a great portrayal of that.

1233
00:54:13.619 --> 00:54:17.340
And so that's part of that self-criticism that, um, deep say sign

1234
00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:17.820
does.

1235
00:54:18.059 --> 00:54:22.679
But the way that religion is handled in DS Night, it's just in a

1236
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.019
far more entertaining show as well.

1237
00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:30.059
You know, like this show was never going to present this in a

1238
00:54:30.059 --> 00:54:31.619
truly riveting way.

1239
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:36.119
Because I feel like just enterprise is always, it's never quite

1240
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:38.280
edging towards top tier, you know?

1241
00:54:38.340 --> 00:54:41.400
It's always just above average at best.

1242
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:44.159
And I'm not sure why.

1243
00:54:44.219 --> 00:54:47.039
You know, I've yet to do one on, on top of such a pretty well.

1244
00:54:47.099 --> 00:54:49.260
Well, I've been able to just say, that was just an incredible

1245
00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:50.940
piece of television, you know?

1246
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:54.599
We've done it a fair few finds with TNG, with a Voyager, with, well

1247
00:54:54.599 --> 00:54:56.639
maybe not, incredible, you know, very good.

1248
00:54:57.900 --> 00:55:02.639
But there's just something a little tired about this show.

1249
00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:03.900
Yeah, I think that's it.

1250
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:06.539
I think, you know, I think we've identified it.

1251
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:07.199
They're played out.

1252
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:10.260
They've got nothing really new to say that's why they're having to

1253
00:55:10.260 --> 00:55:12.659
do season 3 in the 1st place.

1254
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:16.260
They've run out of actual Star Trek stories to tell and they're

1255
00:55:16.260 --> 00:55:19.739
just doing something else instead and something a bit ugly, I

1256
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:20.460
think, at times.

1257
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:25.320
But to their credit within that fatigue.

1258
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:28.980
You can have guest actors coming and do interesting things.

1259
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:32.579
You can have the regulars desperately trying to claw some kind of

1260
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:35.880
charisma out of these boring characters that are being asked to

1261
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:36.179
play.

1262
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:39.179
You know, and occasionally there can be the odd surprise, like

1263
00:55:39.179 --> 00:55:41.880
there was at the beginning of this episode for me, that actually

1264
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:44.099
makes you go, oh, maybe this one's going to be good.

1265
00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:45.659
Oh no, it's not.

1266
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:47.219
I thought that was okay.

1267
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:48.059
You know.

1268
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:50.280
I'm not sorry that I spent time watching that, I think.

1269
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:02.699
Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to find

1270
00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:04.679
out where we're going next.

1271
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:11.579
I chose this excellent episode of Enterprise, and so it is our

1272
00:56:11.579 --> 00:56:14.219
show's turn to turn the tide.

1273
00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:17.219
Joe, what series are you choosing from?

1274
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:20.940
An excellent use of the term excellent there, might I say?

1275
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:24.000
I'm trying to keep that as ambiguous as possible.

1276
00:56:24.179 --> 00:56:26.460
Yes, well, you know what?

1277
00:56:26.519 --> 00:56:29.699
I know we're sort of slightly inching ahead of the other shows

1278
00:56:29.699 --> 00:56:33.719
percentage wise with my absolute favourite, the love of my life

1279
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:37.679
Deep Space 9, but I just fancy watching Deep Space 9 this week

1280
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:38.460
because I'm off.

1281
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:40.380
So that's why I'm going to break it.

1282
00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:43.260
It's been about 7 or 8 episodes, doesn't it, since we did?

1283
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:45.239
And the last one we did was profit moment.

1284
00:56:45.300 --> 00:56:47.340
We did enjoy, but was very slight.

1285
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:49.139
Yes, that's true.

1286
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:53.880
What would be quite nice would be if we got a really, really shit

1287
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:58.619
DS9 episode that we could just tear apart for once, you know

1288
00:56:58.619 --> 00:56:59.820
because I'm always so nice about it.

1289
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:01.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1290
00:57:01.619 --> 00:57:05.400
It feels like a long time since the halcyon days of dramatis

1291
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:06.300
persona, doesn't it?

1292
00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:09.780
Why is he making that clock?

1293
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:12.059
He's still got the clock, you know?

1294
00:57:12.300 --> 00:57:15.300
Please say it one last time.

1295
00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:19.679
At the time, right.

1296
00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:23.159
Obviously, I knew you very well then, but at the time, I just

1297
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:26.280
remember thinking listening back, what a sarcastic cunt.

1298
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:31.139
Okay, all right.

1299
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:32.460
Let's press the button.

1300
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:35.159
Oh, looking for a palmark in all the wrong places.

1301
00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:39.179
The glorious Klingon sex comedy that we walked in before.

1302
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:41.579
Oh, tacking into the wind.

1303
00:57:41.639 --> 00:57:44.880
Oh, they were just picking...

1304
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.440
The arc episode that we did.

1305
00:57:46.500 --> 00:57:48.179
Oh.

1306
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:50.880
Oh, I don't think we can go far.

1307
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:51.900
It's not really terrible.

1308
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:56.280
It's probably the most celebrated episode of Deep Space 9.

1309
00:57:56.340 --> 00:57:58.019
What should we do this?

1310
00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:03.300
Season six, episode 13, far beyond the stars.

1311
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:05.820
Oh, wow.

1312
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:07.739
Yeah, I think we have to do it.

1313
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:09.360
That's a biggie, isn't it?

1314
00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:11.280
I want to say terrible though.

1315
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:12.719
That's really not terrible.

1316
00:58:12.780 --> 00:58:16.860
No, but I think once we've rolled it, I think we have to do it.

1317
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:20.280
I mean, it's got Penny Johnson Gerald in period outfits.

1318
00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:22.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1319
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:23.760
People out of latex.

1320
00:58:23.820 --> 00:58:25.199
We could get married.

1321
00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:26.340
Have a baby.

1322
00:58:27.059 --> 00:58:28.619
So good.

1323
00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:30.179
That'd be great.

1324
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:31.320
And you know what?

1325
00:58:31.380 --> 00:58:35.039
I think this properly gives us the chance to talk about Avery

1326
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:39.960
Brooks, who gets a central role, who directs this, and there's so

1327
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:42.659
much brilliant trivia about his direction of this.

1328
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.179
Both good and bad.

1329
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:49.500
This is the episode where him and Renee John Moir came to blows on

1330
00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:50.219
the set.

1331
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:54.900
And it's because they were both so passionate about the work and

1332
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:58.019
getting it right, but they had creative differences about how they

1333
00:58:58.019 --> 00:58:59.219
wanted a scene to be played.

1334
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:03.780
And obviously, his those 2 characters have some big scenes in this

1335
00:59:03.780 --> 00:59:04.139
episode.

1336
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:05.099
Yeah, yeah.

1337
00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:06.539
Oh, boy.

1338
00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:07.679
Yeah, that would be amazing.

1339
00:59:07.739 --> 00:59:09.239
Wow, let's do it.

1340
00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:10.619
Let's do it.

1341
00:59:17.460 --> 00:59:21.420
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1342
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:22.559
and Nathan Bottomley.

1343
00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:26.039
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1344
00:59:26.039 --> 00:59:28.739
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1345
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:32.519
Now, podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1346
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:34.199
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1347
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:38.639
This episode was recorded on the 14th of May 2024 and released on

1348
00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:39.840
the 31st of May.

1349
00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:44.159
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, Far Beyond the

1350
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:44.519
Stars.

1351
01:00:02.579 --> 01:00:10.500
So, I have copied down to two notes from this, like, just 2 bullet

1352
01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:10.800
points.

1353
01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:12.360
How many do you normally do?

1354
01:00:12.420 --> 01:00:13.199
Are you ready?

1355
01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:14.519
Sometimes I do more.

1356
01:00:14.579 --> 01:00:16.019
But this one.

1357
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:21.900
This episode was formerly known as untitled sphere story. all

1358
01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:22.139
that.

1359
01:00:22.860 --> 01:00:26.639
So they shouldn't have say that in the beginning, all right?

1360
01:00:26.699 --> 01:00:28.440
This is the tag.

1361
01:00:29.219 --> 01:00:32.039
Oh, untitled sphere.

1362
01:00:32.460 --> 01:00:34.739
I think they should have kept it.

1363
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:35.219
We did.

1364
01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:35.760
Come on.

1365
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:40.559
And then the other one, which I think is super important, is this

1366
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:44.340
episode marks the final appearance of the Pyrithian bat.

1367
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.400
Oh, is it the last one?

1368
01:00:47.460 --> 01:00:49.739
It's the last Pyrethian bad episode.

1369
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:54.239
Oh, I did like it.

1370
01:00:54.300 --> 01:00:57.599
It just made me figure that dreadful episode we watched last

1371
01:00:57.599 --> 01:00:57.840
time.

1372
01:00:57.960 --> 01:00:59.460
Which one?

1373
01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:00.900
Oh, it's so funny.

1374
01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:01.679
These are the voyages.

1375
01:01:01.739 --> 01:01:04.500
No, the bat's great in that.

1376
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:06.719
That's a good scene, yeah.

1377
01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:10.800
No, all those scenes about what arsehole archery is. all gold.

1378
01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:12.000
All right, we should start.

1379
01:01:12.059 --> 01:01:13.500
Does he have a few moments in this?

1380
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:15.659
I don't remember annoying me too much in this.

1381
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:16.980
Yeah.

1382
01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:17.579
Yeah.

1383
01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:20.400
I mean, he did a very predictable thing, didn't he?

1384
01:01:20.460 --> 01:01:22.320
of like, oh, yes, I choose me.

1385
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:26.519
I'd have said, you know, oh, I choose Marjorie on tactical.

1386
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:27.420
She really annoys me.

1387
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:29.219
So kill her.

1388
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:31.980
Yeah, I'm captain.

1389
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:33.300
I can pick anyone I want.

1390
01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:36.840
I actually thought that was a good moment for him, but, of course

1391
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:39.059
he'd found a way out of it because religious people are stupid

1392
01:01:39.059 --> 01:01:40.559
about it.

1393
01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:42.840
So that was also lame.

1394
01:01:43.139 --> 01:01:45.659
Matter dissemination.

1395
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:47.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1396
01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:51.719
We use it to just, you know, when the little portholes that you

1397
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.579
can throw stuff out of them jammed.

1398
01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:55.260
We put it in the matter disseminator.

1399
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.500
Oh, no, Nathan, we've just done all the talking points of the

1400
01:01:58.500 --> 01:01:58.739
episode.

1401
01:01:58.800 --> 01:01:59.940
But now.

1402
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:01.320
I put this in the tag.

1403
01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:02.280
Okay.

1404
01:02:02.340 --> 01:02:03.420
All right.

1405
01:02:04.019 --> 01:02:07.260
It's been a while since we've had a tag that's from before we

1406
01:02:07.260 --> 01:02:09.420
start rather than after we finish, you see?

1407
01:02:09.659 --> 01:02:13.440
There was one, which was just you and me talking, which I loved.

1408
01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:15.960
I was like, oh, is this the sort of things we normally talk

1409
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:16.199
about?

1410
01:02:16.260 --> 01:02:18.599
I was like, what about Star Trek?

1411
01:02:18.659 --> 01:02:21.239
It wasn't 5 minutes long.

1412
01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:23.099
You and me gossiping.

1413
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:24.239
I was like, oh, this is great.

1414
01:02:24.300 --> 01:02:27.239
It didn't have anything too personal in there, did I?

1415
01:02:27.300 --> 01:02:29.219
No, I don't think so.

1416
01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:31.739
No, I'm sure you...

1417
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:32.159
Yeah, yeah.

1418
01:02:32.219 --> 01:02:34.619
I would have chosen it just us.

1419
01:02:34.739 --> 01:02:37.320
Although the funniest one was when you're talking about the back

1420
01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:37.920
fence.

1421
01:02:37.980 --> 01:02:39.780
That's the best one.

1422
01:02:40.500 --> 01:02:43.320
But it's sort of shit coloured.

1423
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:47.219
That doesn't show the shit on it.

1424
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.440
It just makes sense. so ugly, you guys.

1425
01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:50.639
Oh my god.

1426
01:02:50.699 --> 01:02:54.179
All right, all right, right, right, right, right, right.

1427
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:54.599
He goes.

1428
01:02:54.659 --> 01:02:55.679
He goes, he goes.

1429
01:02:58.739 --> 01:03:01.260
Hey, Joe. Hi.