Hey, Joe. Hi.
Now, I'm really excited about this one, because this might be one
of my favourite hours of Star Trek across the whole franchise.
It's Star Trek, the Next Generation series 5, episode 5. and it's
called Disaster.
And I think when it comes to just delivering an hour of TV that's
incredibly fun to watch, this is very nearly unequalled in the run
of Star Trek, the next generation.
And it does a thing, I think, that's really only available to Star
Trek the Next Generation, which is taking characters that are made
to be in a procedural and putting them all in sort of odd
situations and stuff.
So this is an episode with an A, B, C, D, and E plot.
Not much time to get bored in this one.
That's where you skip from one to the other.
Exactly.
And, you know, they're all happening in different parts of the
ship and characters are put in sort of various positions that
they're not really designed to fulfil.
And there's just a kind of deft lightness to the whole thing.
It's terribly enjoyable and not afraid to be a bit silly and I
think it works really well.
I think that the director, Gabrielle Beaumont, has something to do
with that.
And I had a good look at the episode she directs.
She does 7 Next Generation's, one DS9 and one Voyager, and on the
whole, there's maybe one dub there, but you know, you get the
script you're handed, right?
Yeah, booby traps in there.
That's a bit dull.
That's where she came in.
But I think the actors respond well to her and the script here and
everyone's just fucking chilled out for one week, which is really
nice.
You always say about the Next Generation's characters having us
stick up their baths. you know.
But no one really has in this episode.
They're all in a situation of extreme peril, utterly absurd
situations, and half the time.
I feel as if I'm watching the actors rather than the characters.
Yeah, which is a lot more fun than watching the characters, if I
was.
I mean, because this is a procedural show and the characters are
basically their jobs.
We've said this lots of times.
It's competent people solving space problems.
Here we have a space problem where they're not really kind of
suited to dealing with it in all sorts of ways.
It's a very ambiguous space problem, the quantum filament.
Yeah we'll get there.
So what it was originally supposed to be.
No.
That originally the Enterprise was going to be bombarded with
asteroids.
Oh, yeah, they realised that that was that was going to cause a
lot of physical effects.
I didn't want to spend no money.
So they thought, well, we'll just create a quantum filament, shake
the camera a bit and turn the lights out and there we go. in our
dangerous situation.
Yeah, because I mean, the nature of the dangerous situation is
absolutely unimportant to the story.
And what is important is getting to see these characters do things
that they weren't designed to do.
They were designed to be in a procedural show here.
They're put in various fish out of water situations, and they're
fun and funny, I think.
And we have 3 kind of regular guest stars as well, augmenting the
crew in Keiko and Miles, and also in Roe Laren too.
And they all work really well as well.
And I always kind of, you know, it always disappoints me that
there are only sort of 7 or 8 people on the ship and we never get
to know anyone in Star Trek, the Next Generation, and here, you
know, we have an expanded cast of people that we know who get to
be involved in the action.
It works really well.
I do feel as hard to bring a semblance of sort of reality to this
conversation, though, and dismiss this hyperbole that this is one
of the best ever Star Trek the next generation episodes.
Because the trouble with having 5 plots is they're kind of ranked
right?
As to how effective they are, and I do think 3 of these plots have
issues.
One suffers from the curse of the child actor, 3 child actors that
are just dismal one.
That's great, unfortunately, and Patrick Stewart's doing a lot of
the legwork.
One, where the characters are so thin, they are just stuck talking
a load of techno babble for the entire episode, apart from a very
cute scene at the beginning, which I really liked.
At one where a character kind of has to feel more like a plot
function than a character because of the direction that plot's
going in and does a complete reversal at the end in about 5.5
seconds.
That feels so unreal sick. it almost sort of does a bit of harm to
the character.
I doubt that.
I don't think that's the case.
I think that's Ronald D Moore wanting to be much more gum than the
show wants to be.
And we'll talk a little bit about that reversal because I think it
works in context.
He's the strongest critic of that plot.
He doesn't like that plot at all.
I think he's wrong.
I think that's bad criticism.
I think there is a good reason why it ends the way that it does.
I also think too, the child actors are kind of terrible, but that
that plot is adorable and I don't care.
And there are one or 2 lines that the kids deliver that I think
are fantastic. scene where they're on the bridge and Picard's
winking at him and she's doing her cute look.
I'm like, this is so fucking broad at this point.
God's sake.
That's the other thing too, is that this is a fun and accessible
hour of TV.
And even though there is technobabble and stuff.
It's not that complicated.
It's all very clear what's going on in that shuttle bay.
The technopabil's kind of decoration more than anything else.
And it's very clear what everyone's doing and there are physical
actions that they perform that have physical consequences.
And anyone walking in here will know what is happening and will
see the next generation characters who they've known for a number
of years now, chilling and being in a fun adventure.
The whole thing is directed by Gabrielle Beaumont as if it's just
a normal hour of television rather than space people wandering
around solving space problems.
Most of his direction like is a sitcom, right?
Those glorious scenes with Keiko giving birth at the end.
Could have come out of any American sitcom at the same time?
It's very funny.
Michael Dawn, you know, you can see the relief on his face as he's
getting to play comedy.
Yeah, yeah.
That those 2 are great together.
It's a really, really good sumplot, I think.
So if the job of Star Trek is to be entertaining television, this
is an episode that absolutely does that at a really top level, it's
not really about anything, and the characters are still thin, but
what we're getting them to do is material that they don't normally
get to do, and we allow them to be a little bit more relaxed and a
little bit more silly than normal.
And I think that makes for a really memorable and enjoyable hour
of Star Trek the Next Generation.
Well, I got a quote here from Jerry Taylor, who talks about fan
reaction, and she says, I thought some fans thumb their nose at it
but in a mix of varied stories, it was a good infusion of life.
And it's the thumb there knows that you're part of this episode
that I want to focus on there because I think Star Trek fans, you
know, the Star Trek fan, wants everything to be, who watches the
watchers and Dharmok, you know, and tapestry and things like that
and don't want these fabulous characters caught in these sitcom
situations.
And that's kind of a shame because I think this is something that
TNG could do with a bit more role bit, I'm honest.
Yeah, yep. yep.
I think data's day.
Yeah, that's that's another good example.
And, you know, weirdly enough, you you suggested lower decks in
series 7, which is another Gabrielle Beaumont episode, brilliant
one like that.
And it is doing the same thing is that it's following a load of
characters, but in obviously very different, very dramatic, very
moving way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's a much more serious episode, but it is also fun and
it's formally distinct.
I mean, what this is doing is not what any other Star Trek The
Next Generation thing does.
Deanna observes perhaps that the quantum filament is a bit like a
cosmic string, which hits the ship in the loss, remember, and
causes her to lose her empathic powers.
And even though it's the same sort of thing in a way, we never
have an episode that splinters into 5 subplots and doesn't have a
clear A plot that just has these 5 plots.
It's a formal experiment.
And it's something that Star Trek could have done more often.
And I think day to day is another one where there is a plot and it
is a little bit similar to the weird Cardassian subplot in lower
decks, isn't it?
There's something going on that we don't really understand or know
about.
But what we're interested in. periphery of all the fun stuff
though. doesn't get in the way.
Well, because part of the fun of Star Trek 2 isn't imagining what
these people's lives are like, and I know it makes no sense, and
it's the sort of thing that lower decks makes fun of all the
time.
But any little insight into just day-to-day stuff on the ship
because these characters are likeable, and because the whole thing
is, is so much fun, it just kind of works really well.
Just relaxed again in day or day.
That scene where Dr. Beverly teaches data how to does.
It's her best scene in the entire run. because it's McFadden just
chilled out, utterly, you know, in her comfort zone, having a
great time. and it's so fun to watch.
I do very quickly want to talk about the DS9 episode Starship Down
which I watched after this and I knew they basically took the
premise of this and did it again.
It's sort of in the middle section of the Dominion War.
They're in a gas cloud, the Jemadar attacking the ship.
The ship is, you know, submarine in danger, people in various
parts of the ship and it's down.
And, you know, the production value of it is way better because I
think things have just come on in 4 or 5 years.
But the big difference between the 2 episodes, and I'm not going
to say one's better or worse because they are sort of doing
different things tonally, is those DS9 characters are so fully
formed.
Every single one of those plots is a character journey in itself.
You get Cisco and Kira and Kira's trying to keep the spiritual
leader of her people alive and panicking through it and talking
about how they've never really had a friendship.
They've only had a professional relationship and that comes to a
conclusion.
You get Dax and Bashir.
Finally talking about how creepy he was in series one when they're
stuck in a Jeffreys tube together and and her garage house, she's
a bit disappointed, though he's not lost an after her anymore.
And he says, well, tough shit, you know, basically.
Wharf, Wharf, figure it out how to, now he's in command of the
defiant, how to sort of work alongside people without being a
complete asshole, which is quite fun to watch.
And all of this stuff is going on.
Oh, Quark and what's the fella's name?
J Random guest star.
No, no, it's it's the fellow from First Contact.
It's Armand Shimmerman and James Cromwell playing the alien of the
week.
Oh, yes, okay.
Yeah.
With an enormous torpedo sticking into the room that they're stuck
in.
And it leans into quarks, you know, it's a game of chance and all
of this.
And everyone in those plots, it serves a character function.
I'm not saying it's a better episode.
I think it's a more fulfilling episode of Deep Space 9 because it
is doing interesting things with the characters and saying
something about them.
The characters in this show, I do think they are a lot of fun, but
they are very thin.
And in these plots, there really isn't much to do with any of
them.
No.
But put them in these absurd situations.
Yeah.
Well, like, it's only DC Snyder that really attempts to do that
with the staple of character, because it has.
And here, they're really just relying on the charm of the actors
performances and that we know Geordie and we know data and, you
know, we kind of know what they're like, not because we've spend a
lot of time with scripts that explore those characters in any way
but just because we've seen them solve space problems together
over 4 years now.
And so just seeing them do something else.
He's so much fun.
And so I think it's a different type of thing.
And I think it's probably only TNG that could do this episode.
There isn't a big enough ensemble on the original series.
I think Deep Space 9 would do exactly what it did in Starship Down
and make it about the characters.
In Voyager.
The characters are also paper thin and less charming, I think, on
the whole, than the TNG characters.
Although it is astonishing, given all the other TNG episodes, they
ripped off that they didn't do this again.
That's right.
And then, you know, well, enterprise is enterprise.
So I think that this is something...
I think this is definitely something that Ali TNG can do and I am
really glad they did it because they think it's a magnificent
piece of work.
I feel like I've been slightly hard on an episode I had great fun
with.
I've watched this twice.
The 1st time I enjoyed the hell out of it.
The 2nd time I was seeing more of the flaws, but I think that's
the problem with watching things twice, right, is that you do
start seeing things that you don't in your 1st experience.
But in terms of telling a quick, pasty, original for TNG, unique
slice of sitcom TNG action.
It is a little bit addictive.
I think we should watch it.
I think we should.
All right.
I will count it in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Top 10.
What madness is this?
I reckon it's top 10, Star Trek and Exteration, for sure.
It does start like your average.
That lovely lady talking in there.
I know, it's got fabulous heels as well.
I like as well how we sort of set people up in different locations
you know, in the 1st round of scenes.
I, I, this episode reminds me of how charming Riker is.
You know, just how incredibly charming Riker is.
And there's one reaction, like this.
He's adorable in this scene where he goes, William, you've got to
call the baby William.
It's a great name.
And it's really cute.
Like, he's really funny.
He's enjoying Data's reaction to touching Keiko's belly.
All of it's fun.
He's so great.
I've forgotten how fucking chill.
Keiko was on the next generation.
I mean, when she, my 1st couple of seasons of DS9, I mean, you
would be.
Look at the state of the place.
But she's miserable when she goes over there.
She so relaxed here.
Yeah, she's loving her life.
Well, she has a job, she's Bill.
I love this scene so much.
This is the best scene of the Beverly Geordie thing where she
forces him to sing, I am the very model of a model major general.
Yeah, and he sings it really badly out of tune and she just says
oh, I can work with that.
I can fix on it.
She's so...
She go, you're a bit tone deaf or something like that. but don't
worry.
I'll sort out.
I'll sort it out.
I just imagine.
Very amusing, Nina.
She's going around all the departments trying to blackmail people
into being in a dreadful musical.
That's it.
You're a little off pitch.
I really, really enjoy the way the camera's moving and following
them as well.
There's something really breezy about that scene, and the 2 of
them are kind of adults who like one another and stuff.
Okay, see, these kids, I adore Patterson.
That's rude of the damn.
There we go.
I think Patterson is really cute.
And he's, can we see the Battle Bridge in the Torpedo Bay?
And Picard goes, no, we're going to go see the Operetum and these
sort of boring. things.
Do you not think there's a visual clue as to how relaxed this
episode is going to be that Picard's uniform is open, which is
very unusual.
No, well, that's his series 5 jacket thing. and he does wear it in
Darmach as well.
Did you know that?
It seems to be swayed.
Yeah, yeah.
He only wears it in series 5 in the beginning of series 6.
Don't go down on the rain planet, Captain Picard.
I mean, this this kid, he won the science fair by growing some
radishes.
No, I think the standards were too high.
So, and his reaction is that.
So poor old Picard can't cope very well.
The kids look just absolutely horrifically uncomfortable.
I think the little girl who plays Marissa is not too bad.
She's not terrible, although that last look.
That giant, look, he's giant teeth.
Patterson's giant teeth and he goes, I grew radishes in this
special dirt and they came up all weird.
Like, that's such a cute line delivery.
I like this kid as well.
Can I say I die?
Oh yeah, that's very funny.
And actually, this is leaning into, you remember the line in the
very 1st episode encounter at PowerPoint?
I want you to stop me making an ass of myself with children.
So we're leaning into this again and we do it a couple of times.
I think you've got a bit more patience with children than I do
Nathan, given our respective careers.
Oh yeah, I think these are bad, these are not great child actors
but, you know, you, you know, you get what you can.
It's a bit where they have to cry, you know, that's why the cry is
really bad.
But his reaction to it is pretty funny.
Everybody, we're wobbling the camera.
Throw yourselves around the set.
Well, I quite like it's when it's when Picard is about to speak to
Marisa that the whole thing goes to hell.
Now we get these 2 really charming extras.
One of them lives, but the other one dies.
So Lieutenant Monroe is about to get killed.
I thought the sort of, because there was very little destruction
going on as they went through the quantum film, but one console
explodes, which takes her out, which I think is why Council of
Troy has to take her out. right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's a bit of a lame explosion.
There wasn't even any rocks.
No, and I kind of think that they can't really properly emphasise
that.
Like there is sort of talk about there being more death than we
ever want to mention.
And so we just sweep that under the carpet for the sake of having
fun.
Okay, this to be a fun episode, don't they?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
We can't be focussing too much on that.
Okay, so is everybody where they need to be?
Dr. Bev and Georgie, they're in the cargo base.
Keiko is in 10 forward, ready to pop.
We've mentioned the baby, so that's all set up.
Yeah, then so Keiko and Riker and Wharf and Data are all in 10
forward.
So Riker.
Yeah, Riker and Data are going to go off on their own plot later
on.
And then we've got Roe and Deanna and 2 red shirts, but they're
not red shirts because they're wearing gold on the bridge at one
of whom's just been killed.
And what is nice is it doesn't lock all those characters in those
places.
They sort of move about it. move, yeah.
Riker and Data end up in the Jeffries tube.
Row ends up on the bridge.
Rowe actually hasn't turned up yet on the bridge.
Has she has she?
She's not there yet.
And, oh, I love the quote on memory alpha about um, Data and Riker
where um, Michael Piller goes, you know, oh, I've had a great
idea.
Well, our data's head hooked up to a console.
He goes, uh, he goes to, um, run more, put it in the script.
He goes, they won't let it through.
Rick Berman will take it out.
But just put it in anyway.
You know, let's try our luck.
Apparently Rick Burmer read the script and he didn't say a word.
They were like, yes.
That's really fun.
And one of my favourite bits of the episode is Riker's reaction
when data suggests... is so funny.
He goes, oh, I'm going to step into that electric field now.
And data is just so calm about it.
He goes, oh, my Xoskeleton's made out of this thing.
We forget he is, in fact, not a person.
Or is he?
So what do you think about Counsellor Troy then in this episode?
So I think this is actually quite a good plot for Council Troy, and
they do, um, they do kind of follow it up because she ends up
doing, uh, that time when I was on the bridge.
Yeah, during the concept filament.
I think that's the exact line, actually.
She mentions the thing in the babble.
Now I want to be and have commander training.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think she's great because she is initially a fish out
of water.
She doesn't know what's happening.
And what ends up happening is that she uses her abilities as a
counsellor to manage the 2 people, to manage 2 people who disagree
and to manage someone who could potentially be a problem in that
situation, who is nevertheless giving good advice and shouldn't be
shut down.
So I think she does a great job.
And the moment where she sits in the bridge is in the in the
captain's share is magnificent.
So good.
I think Marina must have asked for the follow-up.
She thought, I love sitting in that chair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you see that high angle shot then of them all in the turbo?
I love it when they do that.
I really do.
And it's worth noting as well.
Like they've turned the lights down on that bloody bridge set and
automatically once again, it is more atmospheric.
Yes.
Oh here we go.
Oh, God.
Cheers.
And Picard just tries telling them all to shut up and it makes
them even worse.
Oh, I'm going to have to do this with a bit of tact and finesse
instead.
No, well, what he does is he's the captain.
He creates a crew and he orders them around and he uses all of his
abilities as a captain, all of the things that he does in his
everyday job, and that works with the kids.
It's wonderful.
I did think this was quite funny.
Now you all need to stop crying.
Oh, but this would be my idea of hell being in that turbo lift
with them.
I like I like how it's the little girl who ends up being number
one as well.
You know, the little boys are much younger than her and I think
she's pretty good.
Like, I think she's pretty great.
I like the line where he goes, you will be the commander in charge
of radishes.
That's so cute.
It's so ridiculous, but I love it.
Oh, here comes here comes some Rome now.
Yeah, I'll tell you what it is.
She's just a little too...
Unwielding, you know, she just won't accept any other opinion and
she has to in order for Troy to obviously to, you know, stand up
to her and have a hero moment.
I just hoping it does row any favours.
Well, like, she apologises, but she doesn't do it very graciously
and I think, you know, that's a reasonable thing, and and this
should perhaps...
More than one or two, did he?
He wanted her to turn around and say, look, you still could have
got us all killed, all right?
Yeah, but then we don't resolve the plot in an amicable way.
This is a fun episode.
Do you know what I mean?
You don't end it on a note of conflict, but that's more the sort
of thing you would have done on Boulestar Glats.
Exactly.
But what has to happen is that Deanna, because she's the
counsellor, because she's being a good commander, for that reason
she says, no, you could have been right.
And she was doing the right thing.
Roe was doing the right thing by offering an alternative view, you
know, and allowing the captain to, you know, and she get, she does
get her moment.
She does get a moment saying, you could have just killed us all or
something. you know what I mean?
She does get to say something, but she doesn't need to do it at
the end of the episode because that's when we're winding that plot
up.
And I think ending it with the 2 of them in conflict is totally
wrong for this episode.
Not next generation, is it?
You know, they just wouldn't do it on the next generation.
There is a wonderful bit of trivia in memory alpha that says, you
know, in given sort of genuine naval tradition.
There is no way that the counsellor would ever be put in charge of
the ship.
No shit, Sherlock.
We are just, we're being creative here.
Well, so what we haven't ever had is her referred to as Lieutenant
Commander Troy before, and we get that, you know, as you know, Bob
Deanna holds the rank of Lieutenant Commander, where Miles
explains that.
And so she's the ranking officer on the ship.
And I think it's commander Beverly Crusher as well, isn't it?
You know?
What surprised, surprised me, actually, was normally, I can't bear
it because Counsellor Troy in her day-to-day job is usually so
fucking arrogant all the time, isn't she?
sort of lauding it over everybody and their emotions.
But when she's a fisher out of water, like she is in this episode
I thought, okay, this can be quite interesting.
She's sort of, but she's so indecisive.
Yeah, I did like that shot of that seeing the closing shot of the
scene with her looking a little bit stricken and a little bit
vulnerable.
I think that's quite good.
No, I mean, it's an interesting direction to take her in.
You know, and it is great there.
It has consequences as well for the show that very often doesn't
do that sort of thing.
I just I just figured she'd just put it on a bit more, you know
like, even if you don't know, pretend you do.
But I mean, what is fun is that she does use her abilities as a
counsellor to actually negotiate it because she's good with
people.
She's actually good at command.
Did you see Jonathan Frakes or Riker, comforting Keiko?
Again.
The intimacy, the tactile nature of their relationships.
Yeah, when they just let them be people.
It's so nice.
It is nice.
Why are they Star Trek characters all the time.
Yeah.
And and we know, you know, that now we have a version of this show
in strange new worlds, which is every bit of Star Trek, every bit
is procedural as as this, but knows that you can also have fun
with the characters and that's fine.
Featuring actual people.
Yeah.
I mean, they have the luxury of a restricted season or like series
order, like a smaller number of episodes a year.
They can be put a little bit more effort into each of them, and
they aren't in this sort of world of syndication where everything
could be shown in any order, and so we can't have really kind of
much in the way of ongoing plot threads, or we think we can't
anyway.
I know they do say that less is more sometimes.
But actually, I do love with these 90s shows that more is more
though.
And we just have so much time with them.
It's wonderful Yeah, that's true.
Oh, did you notice in this Dr. Beverly plot that they did the
thing that we always laugh at when they open up the room to space
and everyone's fire.
They just sort of grab older things.
No one's sucked out into space.
They should have, they should just cover that with a line
somewhere.
It's just a very small hole that's opened or something that's
sucking out all of the...
No, they open.
They open the whole door.
We see it.
That's not what would happen in real life, is it?
They'd be out that door in a second. hanging on.
They hanging on.
I think the suction is... when you open something to space.
I mean, wind over them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It is funny.
Yeah, where he sends them up on the roof.
Sorry?
Yeah, just a bit where he sends him up on the roof.
Yeah I like that.
Yeah, yeah.
God.
Well, I was gonna say, I always love it when you see different
parts of the ship.
And just being on top of the turbo lip.
See what's around it.
I really like that.
It's like Star Trek 5.
You know, it's like the sort of thing that would happen in the
movies. you get to see.
And I actually think this is quite well realised.
The shot where the...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Where the turbo left behind the kids. is really good, I think.
Well, and it's that great moment of like, thank God they went
through the roof.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
All those kiddie wings would have been dead. right.
They're doing squash.
Actually, the roof.
Maybe Picard should just gone up through the roof then.
Well, see, this where he kind of decides now I have to do, I have
to get this to work and he makes the right decision.
And one of the great things about that final scene is when he sees
them on the bridge the next time he is genuinely delighted to see
them.
Now, I don't think you would have noticed that because I didn't
get you in time.
Did you see the 2 holes on her collar where they've done a
reshoot?
I've already done this shot once.
Never mind.
Maybe she knew she was going to be the commander.
Maybe she came prepared.
I mean, I'll be fair, they are the cutest looking kids you've ever
seen in your life.
One of them's boss eyed.
One of them's got weird teeth, and the other one's the cutest
blonde girl you've ever seen in your life.
And look at her, look at those white boots that she's wearing.
They're so 60s.
It's wonderful.
I mean, it's like Picard's hanging out with a Brady Bunch right
now, but yeah, yeah.
We don't normally do this sort of thing, do we?
Well, I think that Jake Gordon is like a dime store Macaulay
Culcom.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, it's this little block.
You mean pound lamb, McCall, yeah?
Well, I was going for I was going for the American expression.
What's the Australian version of that?
A dollar shop?
$2 shop?
dollar shop.
We don't really have the shop, Macaulay Golkin.
And I don't know why.
I do just love exploring all over the ship.
Every time they do it in all the shows, even for Enterprise or
anything.
Yeah.
Yeah, that, that, um, civil defence episode of um, DS9, yeah
that's entirely like that.
The track goes off and they're just crawling through various parts
of the ship where we've never seen before.
That's great.
They sort of really go to that.
I think they know this is something that Star Trek fans pay close
attention to the schematics of the ship.
So they go to a lot of effort to get it right.
Yeah, yeah.
It's really fun too, isn't it?
Oh, how cheap do those barrels look there?
There's no weight to them as well. really amazing.
Plastic, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I don't know what they're talking about now, if I'm honest.
Stuff gets unstable at 300 and the stuff in the thing is going to
explode unless we move it out of the way of the radiation.
It's all very clear and then they move it out of the way.
Like it's all of that stuff's super straightforward.
Wouldn't it have been quite fun if the thing they set up at the
start of the episode, the song?
had something to do with the conclusion of this plot, you know?
The symphonic resonance of the radiation.
Ah, I could do it too. a bit cheesy, I mean.
Well, I know.
Well, anything's better than the Tetla Battle.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean, the Techno Battle said are fairly obvious
I think.
You know, these things are going to catch fire and we have to blow
them out the shuttle bay door is pretty obvious.
So here she is trying to understand the quantum filament.
How big is the quantum filament?
It's about 100 metres long.
It doesn't seem to have much mass.
It's like the cosmic string.
You riot.
She's remembered the loss.
No, because O'Brien just goes, no, that's a completely different
phenomenon.
It's like, it's just like, she thought she was in.
I've heard of a cosmic string. was my episode last year.
It reminds you, like, East Doctor Who, when they say, they
literally did that from story to story.
Perry goes, what, was it the comparator, you know, because that's
the one thing she remembers from the last story.
I wonder if in the next episode they go, what?
A bit like the quantum strict.
No, no.
We've done that one. doing this now.
Aye, aye, aye.
Oh, dear.
I mean, I'll take the piss out of Tetna babble, but it wouldn't
really be Star Trek about it, would it?
Yeah, yeah.
And I think this version of Star Trek does Techno Babble, like
Star Trek, the Next Generation does it much better than, say
Voyager, where it's just horrific, I think.
And I let you in on a little secret.
You know, when these used to come out on VHS, it's 2 episodes per
VHS.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I used to get them out of blockbuster video.
We're a close-up of the screen there.
I used to pause the videos so I could read what was on the
screen.
In a series one episode of The Next Generation, I found out that
they listed all the Doctor Who actors from William Hartle to Peter
Davidson.
So I figured there was going to be like Easter eggs.
Obviously that episode.
I figured there was gonna be Easter eggs all the time.
So I used to always pause the screens.
There never was, unfortunately, that was just something about our
quantum filament.
I do think that it's implausible that she doesn't know what a core
breach is, given that she...
Do you know what I mean?
She has been right in the ship before.
No, I don't think it is.
It is to try and show that she's a fish out of water because she
says, and that means what?
And kind of Michelle Forbes goes, it means the ship is going to
explode.
Like, why are you in charge if you don't know that?
I think.
I adore every single thing about how this scene has acted.
You've got data, like I said, absolutely.
Well, I'm going to stand into that electric because that's fine.
I'm made out of this, you know, hardwire material and you've got
Riker there appalled.
Oh, Mr. Data.
No, really.
Are you sure you want to do this?
No, but I show you that I love most.
They all think of him as a person, don't they?
And so do we.
I think it's these moments where I'm shocked.
I'm going, oh, yeah, he's just a robot, right?
Well, he's not just a robot.
He's a person.
He's a robot played by Brent Spiner.
That's right.
All the other people are made of meat, you know, like it's like it
doesn't matter what you're made of.
We're not going down that route again.
The moral complexities of quicksilver people.
Yes, exactly.
So, this, it's the reaction to my cradial unit, the word migrating
unit.
Look, and he's laughing.
He's, you want me to take your head off and he's kind of, like, he
doesn't quite know how to react.
He looks away, he smiles.
He's about to, you know, like it's such a Jonathan reaction.
It's so great.
It's really good.
This is the Riker from Picard, I think.
Yeah, I think so too.
He's already Michael, we should have seen more of.
And there are glimpses of it throughout, sort of, from series 3 to
series 7.
There are lots of little glimpses.
Usually when he's playing the trumpet or poker or something like
that.
Someone, someone, my friend, Peter, a friend of the podcast, Peter
said the other day, the bit where he's playing the, it's his
birthday, perhaps, and he's playing the trombone, and someone says
did you wish for anything?
And Frakes just bursts out laughing and says, yeah, music
lessons.
And it's just such a Frakes moment.
It's absolutely him.
This is so much fun.
And look at Dana's reaction.
A remarkable experience.
Come on, Diary says.
This whole chest you that's been burnt out.
Well, his costume anyway.
Don't worry, don't worry.
His neural nets are fully operational.
Fully operational.
We know what that means.
Oh yeah.
You just touch my panel there.
It's located 2 centimetres away from my ear.
All that stuff is so ridiculous and so you press that to detach
the head.
That's the thing.
And they just play it.
They play it for laughs, but they play it for real.
The way you have to play it.
Yeah.
Well that's cute.
Look at the kid on Picard's shoulders.
That's right.
Most dreadful costumes they put all the kids in.
Those sort of all in one costumes.
Terrible.
Yeah.
And they've all come from the gap.
Look at the colours.
It's very 60s as well.
Like, there is a kind of 60sness to it, like Maurice's boots, I
think.
A bloody good thing they weren't standing on top of that turbo
lift, you know, when it free falls later.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I kind of like too.
Like, the way that he describes it really precisely in a way that
a child would understand, like, he's doing a good job.
And that shot of the broken groove thing, I think, is pretty
good.
And I think, like, watch Patrick Stewart in When the Bowel Breaks
where the kids will get stolen from the Enterprise in the series
season one episode, and Patrick Stewart hasn't relaxed at this
point.
He's still playing this like his drama, despite the fact it's
patently absurd what's going on.
And he has scenes with this little girl, Alexandra, and she's got
this sort of wide little fluffy toy that she sticks to his back in
the last scene and everyone's sort of going, ha, ha, how funny.
Patrick Stewart is just so uncomfortable.
The whole scene is just so awkward.
Now look at him here with the kids.
Oh my god, this show is a massive success where a ratings hit.
I've been able to give demands about having directorial
assignments and more women on the show.
And so he's just loving it.
He's playing every scene, just so chill, so funny.
Well, I think this scene with him and Marissa, where he just tells
her the truth and the unvarnished truth that they're in
significant danger and that they're going to have to kind of do a
thing.
Like he's not patronising her.
He's just talking to her like she's a person.
It's great, I think.
I actually think there's something to that.
Very quickly, when my dad went to prison and we lost our house.
My mum sat me down and said, look, I'm not going to sugarcoat
this.
This is what has happened and that was far more useful to me than
any bullshit she could have come up with. as to why we were moving
house.
Yeah.
Be honest with kids.
I think so too.
And I think, you know, like failing, just not patronising them is
important, I think.
And she does a great, great job.
I think she's really good because she's clearly sort of depressed
or whatever.
You know, she won't speak.
She's super, super shy, and they don't overplay it because no
one's particularly good, but, you know, she blossoms.
She comes out of herself when she's given some responsibility.
And this stuff too, where he's just, he's just laying it down.
I actually think, see, I think she does quite a good job of
looking nervous, don't you think?
I think she's doing okay.
She's the one of the 3 of them that's acting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, she's not hard to shine compared to these 2 boys.
That fella just went, oh, I don't want to be an officer anymore. if
it means we're gonna have to do some work.
You know, come on now.
Oh, let's line here.
He goes, I want you also know this is mutiny.
Because they won't leave him behind.
But she, he's not serious and she knows that he's not and she
smiles immediately in a way that I think is really charming.
It's very sweet.
It is very nice.
At this point, it is it is delicate, but come the last scene.
Number one.
Yes, sir.
Oh, please.
I love that scene.
It's so cheesy.
It's so 90s TV cheesy that I, but I just don't care.
I was drowning in a fondue at that point. so funny.
Oh, look at them trying to make this barrel look really heavy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Look.
Gates is really giving it, haven't she?
Just put rocks in it.
Yeah, normally do, to be fair.
Oh, dude, the energy's fed by the ship's internal power grip.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, see what?
That's all normal talk.
That's okay.
I know, but I don't like it.
It's Star Trek.
That's what they're saying.
They're in space.
The rarest of things, you know, in Starship Down.
There was so much tech that bad boy in that and DS9 usually just
avoids that completely.
But because they were in this situation of extreme peril, we had
to understand it somehow.
Yeah, but I mean, look at this.
I mean, these are physical objects moving around and stuff.
You got Geordie waving his arms around to show, you know, where
like what's going to happen and what they have to do.
It is all sort of pretty clear.
I love the bit where, at the very end, you know, where gates.
Oh, please.
Dr. Bears goes...
We're gonna open the door to space and she goes, oh, this ladder.
We can hold this ladder.
Oh, please.
I'm not sure that's very scientific.
Never mind. sure it'll be fine.
I noticed how we're having the odd cut to people that are very
bloody, you know, just to show there is a bit of danger here.
Bit wharf?
Good, good.
You bore that well.
Oh, it's so funny.
It's so...
Plays comedy.
I mean, and they learn this as they go, don't they?
And then Coco goes, here, white woman, put this pad on your face.
She's like this very blonde American lady sitting in dead
forward.
It's not the actual birth that makes me laugh the most, although
it's very funny.
It's the bit where he goes, I will slap the baby and then you just
hear this.
It's so funny I still like it.
I still like the I am pushing line from Keiko, which is so funny.
And like you said before, absolute sitcom staff.
Like the, you know, being trapped somewhere where a woman's giving
birth.
It's just such an obvious joy wolf being played by comedy.
But why they didn't do, sir, I'm not a Merry Man from Cupid and
find him and kill him from Take Me Out to the Hollow Suite more
often.
He's just baffling.
Michael Dawn is very funny.
His line deliveries are great.
Yeah, and I think they only really discovered in series three
don't they?
We saw it in Survivors a few weeks ago, you know, good house, nice
to you.
You know, they they did say in the memory out for interviews that
he was thrilled to get this script.
And the quote is, it was sick to death of being beaten up.
I wanted to play some comedy, you know?
Yeah, or being wrong.
This is the one point where it feels like a normal Star Trek TNG
episode now. in the conference room discussing the situation.
Yeah.
Come on, Deanna. can do it.
She can do it.
I mean, I get why it's Rowe as well, because Rowe is such a force
of nature that it's somebody very powerful that Diana Troy has to
like sort of step up against.
But she doesn't do it by confronting her or conflict or anything
like that.
She does lay down the law.
She says he is what we're going to do.
Interestingly, in Starship Down, the plot where Worf has to figure
out how to work alongside these engineers and not be a total
bastard to them.
It's O'Brien, who's learned so much from all disaster and all
these other episodes.
He's basically saying to him, look, you know, you can cut them a
little slack, but you've got to keep them on the reins.
That's the conclusion of that plan.
I think O'Brien's sort of sucking up all the knowledge now from
all the mistakes everyone else is making.
Yeah, insane, right?
It's insane to think that he's an encounter at Farpoint all the
way through to what you're in.
It's amazing, isn't it?
Yeah, there's some overlap, but here we go.
So this is her, and this is her making her point, and she doesn't
need to apologise for it. and Deanna thanks her.
Do you know what I mean?
And she does go off and do what she's told.
Like, and all of this is things functioning as they should, that
she should be making that point, and that it's Deanna's job to
decide between the 2 of them.
And so when she comes up and apologises at the end, because
essentially it turns out she was wrong, you know, that there were
people and that they would have been abandoning people to die.
And Deanna has to say, no, you could have been right.
And it shouldn't have been her saying it.
It needed to be Deanna to cement her role as a commanding officer
I think.
The funny, I'm sorry to keep making these embarrassments in
Starship Down, when the same decision has to be made, like we go
I'll cut off this part of the ship.
Otherwise, we're going to lose the ship and there's loads of
people in there, including Dax.
Cisco just goes, do it.
So hesitation at all.
He goes, taxis here.
He went, yeah, we're going to lose the ship.
Do it.
And that's why Bashir ends up saving her in the championship.
The singing song as well.
The fucking climbing song.
They do a French one.
That shot is amazingly good. good, isn't it?
It's really good.
So that's a model.
Like, I think it's a model turbo lift, isn't it?
A miniature?
Yeah.
It's not the only scene with miniatures.
There's some stuff on the cargo bay that's miniatures.
I can't actually tell that's been superimposed with them in it.
It's really well done.
That's where your sort of increased budget comes in.
Yeah, your healthy science TNG budget.
And at this point, I know the budget was very healthy because the
show was getting amazing view of figures.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the climbing song.
Jesus Christ.
So here we get our Star Trek. and his dolphins.
Please can't they sing that?
Well, the laughing Vulcan is Cybok, isn't it?
Oh, that's as far as they'll go in referencing Cybalk, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Until we get to Coastman Shrek.
Yeah.
And now we see a French song.
For God's sake, we should be grateful it's not Sourle Paul
d'Avignon at this point, I think.
By the time we got to Kurtzman Trek, I feel the embarrassment of
Star Trek fired had maybe waned a little.
Yeah, yeah.
And people saw how great it was in all sorts of ways, even though
it was utterly terrible as well.
Imagine the, you know, the very serious Star Trek fan, I talked
about earlier, watching this.
They're climbing up a lift with kids singing this song.
I think...
The kids all climb past the camera is really great.
That's a really great choice.
You know, they're directing this like an ordinary TV show, I
think.
I really like it.
Well, and normally, like, you know, I've watched a lot of Star
Trek.
They climb up and down these ladders quite a bit and you've got
you know, Jay Chataway going, da, da, da, da, da, usually.
But for one week we're just going to sing this French song.
Oh, here we go.
And look, he's watching her downstairs measuring how much she's
dilated.
He goes, you are now fully dilated.
You may now give birth.
Thanks for the permission wharf.
What a twat.
Oh dear.
And I love his embarrassed admission that he's never done it
before.
He says yes, and then he goes, no.
It was not like this in the Starfleet maternity training.
No, yeah, the simulation.
He did it on holodeck.
Oh, and you know, do you remember the follow-up gag to this in a
session?
It's not an episode where, um, what goes, Keiko's having a baby
and wharf goes, now?
He goes, no, in 7 months.
Oh dear.
Oh, Rose, can we just give some props to Rosalind Chow?
I mean, I think she's always great.
She always delivers.
She's so funny in these, she's doing proper sitcom.
Oh, I'm trying.
I am pushing.
I've seen this scene a 1000000 times in comedy shows, but it still
works.
Well, it works because it's weird here, right?
Yeah exactly.
It's not what we're used to seeing.
No, and that's what's so fun about it.
That is what's so great about.
Oh, can we move on from this techno bubble, please, Dr. Bev.
Come on.
I don't really like it.
We'll go unconscious where you get 10, like, what is it, 40
minutes, 40 seconds of useable kind of consciousness, then 10
seconds of disorientation, and then we block, you know, then we
black out.
And this shot is pretty good.
It all relies on all of the fucking panels being in ridiculous
places.
Oh, yeah, they have to go across the road that they're fighting
the wind as they go across...
But like, I feel like all the other plots are trying to do
something.
Yeah, this is very minimal, I think.
This is the one that just has no character to it at all.
They're just there in a situation of peril, the end.
But I think just the charm is we've got gates and and LeVar, you
know, doing a scene together, which is fun.
You know.
That's a lovely shot of the barrels going out.
That's of a miniature and the barrels are falling down.
It's a miniature shot from above and they let the barrels loose to
fall down, which makes them look like they're going out.
To be fair, I feel as if you do not need the vacuum of space, a
light sneeze would have sent them all going, but never mind.
Well, or just get some fire extinguishers.
Yeah, this is so funny.
This is having to do some physical acting.
And she just sort of smack it.
Just smack it. doesn't matter.
You hit it.
We're done.
And then she falls to the floor.
She's like, am I unconscious?
I'll just sort of smile and look relieved.
Oh, thank God.
That's adorable.
Oh, we are having fun with this one, aren't we?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But even that plot, which is the thinnest of them.
He's still tired.
The trouble is, you know, you know what the trouble is with this
Nathan, is that now we've done this one.
There's never as fun again.
We've never got this much fun with the next generation ever
again.
I don't think we do.
Not until, uh, perhaps Picard season three.
I know, Rascals.
Oh, yeah, Rascals is really fun.
And of course, the other one we always mentioned.
The game.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's great fun.
Oh, there are fun episodes.
I love this, how the little things move around.
I just don't think there's another one, like you said, there's not
another one that bounces from one plot to another.
So sort of boy, you know, pacely.
Yeah, yeah.
It just feels like it's over with. like before it's even begun.
It goes so quick.
Oh, I think it's that's really good.
You know, like, I think there are a bunch of things going on in
data's day.
Um, and in lower decks, but it doesn't just have these 5 discrete
plots.
It is experimental, I think.
Yeah, look, look, wait, here's her hero moment.
She's just decided, yep, I'm sitting in the fucking chair now and
look, the camera gives her a big moment.
Gabrielle moves in on her.
She crosses her leg.
And she grasps the arms.
Did you see?
Yeah.
Oh, here now.
I think the reason why these stupid plastic neck.
Where's his body?
I don't understand. like it's under the table, isn't it?
He sticks through the thing.
Hand through that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, no.
There's a fellow doing that in the London dungeons, you know. on
King Henry the 8th table.
The reason why Data's Day and Lower Decks, I think, are considered
more than this, is that this is just a bit of fluff and it doesn't
really, we say consequences for Troy, but it doesn't really, it's
just, it's a little fun thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Data-day, absolutely has a Star Trek plot going on in the
background and it's Marvel Keiko's wedding, which is sort of
important going forward and lower decks is an incredible bit of
drama.
Yeah.
But I just think it's okay to let our hair down and be fun.
How many times have we said this when we just hung out on DS9?
Like, this is just fun, you know?
This is Dharmok era.
Do you know what I mean?
And in a week or so, like I can't remember exactly what number
Darmok is, but it's the same month.
Surely that this is on.
We get Darmok and we get this.
And, you know, the show can do power play, you know?
Everyone get down on the floor.
Why, we do get the masterpiece society as well in this season.
That is the curse of 26 episodes.
And so here's where we discover that Miles's and and Deanna's
decision, uh, um, is the right one.
And it, like, I, you know, no, I think that's absolutely
reasonable because there you go.
She touches her and says you could easily have been right.
And again, that scene is about her as a commander and it's not
about Ron Ronald Dimour's favourite play thing.
I feel like the getting the photo.
The apologies, like a sour sweet in Michelle Forbes's mouth.
She's like... yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not the nice guy in anything, all right?
Ron Moore's ironer up for Battle Star as we speak.
Yeah, absolutely.
And here we go.
This is the end of this plot.
I love kitty winks.
Oh, and I actually thought this was... is climb up by the lift.
Yeah that's right.
That's right.
But he also turns them into a crew and he bonds with them.
So this does have a character thing happening.
And like this.
Look, I just think the hug is so sweet.
Yeah, that's nice.
You've lost one of the kids, so...
Look, there have been at least some sacrifice.
And then Marisa just gives you a hug and he's in there and then I
yeah, that's right.
The boys shake hands.
Nathan, that is enough, all right?
I don't need that last scene as well.
No, I love the last scene. really funny.
I'm going to be unbearable.
The last scene, the fun of the last scene is seeing Riker and
Troy's reaction to the captain's, the way the captain gets with
the kids.
Here we go.
She's fully dilated.
Wolf goes...
Why has it not begun?
And it's one of those fabulous sitcom births, which happens in
about 3 seconds, you know, she just...
The baby is perfectly clean as well, isn't it?
When it's happened.
No, actually, I was surprised by how kind of, like the baby's eyes
are open a little bit earlier than you would normally expect.
Like...
Excuse me, you wait for the last shot of this scene.
The baby is in her arms in a shawl clean.
Yeah, yeah, but it's still, it looks a bit grody when it comes out
of it.
Push gate goal. push hard.
Push, get on this.
Push.
Here we go.
I am pushing.
He's so procedural.
The baby is emerging headfirst.
Oh, look at her face.
Go on, Rosa.
She's really, Sally, isn't she?
She's so good.
She's so funny.
That's it.
Look, that's it.
The paint's all over.
Two seconds.
Whee.
I will smack the child to induce breathing.
So funny.
Oh yeah, it's a bit gunky there, actually.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
See, there you go.
That's little Molly. will cut the umbilical cord.
He's got a space thing to do that with, which is kind of cool.
We cut away.
We can't see that.
Yeah.
You know, the baby's sort of sweaty and gunky there.
He adds it to her. clean watch.
It's a special fabric that cleans up babies, you know, in the
future.
It's a space future fabric.
I really love how he says I believe she looks like Chief O'Brien.
That's so cute.
And look, again, the warmth, it's so nice, isn't it?
It's lovely.
But yes, you're right.
The baby is very, very cleaned up and quite alert for some for a
newborn, I think.
Astonishing to think, you know, that cute little baby there could
grow up to be one of those loathsome children that we've spent
this episode with.
I only insult children to see your reaction.
I love Molly.
She goes, tell me a story.
Oh.
That's in my name.
And this is so much fun.
And you know the Battle Bridge?
The thing about the Battle Bridge is we love the fucking Battle
Bridge and we love the separation.
We never go there because we introduce a new model of the
enterprise that doesn't do that.
And so it never happens again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So they build this new model, which is more detailed. world.
Yeah.
Oh, look.
I'm genuinely happy he is to see them.
Sheep ass plaque that they've made him look.
They've handwritten it and they've spelled poor old Patterson's.
They've spelled poor old Patterson's last name.
I think the radish kid goes, I did the back bit.
Yeah, that's Patterson.
He's great.
Oh, yeah, he's got to grow up to do great things.
I can tell.
Oh, I can't watch this next back.
Sorry, the plaque has the actor's last names on it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Marissa, Jake Gordon, and Patterson have the same last names as
the actors do.
Is it the plaque that comes back later on or is it the Captain
Picard State sign?
One of them is in Kursman Track.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. very funny.
Oh, boy, that look.
Oh, I don't even, I think that's so key to look.
Oh, that's so adorable.
You know what that is.
That is the end of a Brody Bunch episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I love it.
Little house on the Prairie or something like that.
Yeah.
Oh boy.
I think that's the bit where the Star Trek fans were going, no
searching for their remotes desperately.
That is so much fun.
Just tremendous.
Oh my god.
The next episode started.
And guess what it is?
The game.
Yeah.
See, this is an incredible run, the beginning of series 5, Star
Trek, the Next Generation, and it's varied, you know, like the
game is serious in all sorts of ways, but it's hilarious and camp
and sort of wonderful as well.
Riker is wrestling a woman around in a bedroom on Riker.
I'm just going to turn that off quickly because I don't want to
see that.
So that woman comes back.
She actually is the one who takes over the ship at the end.
Remember, she's the scary one who appears on the on the view
screen. at the end.
She sort of camps.
She seems to suggest, she seems to suggest, she's dressed in lever
as well, and she goes, hard.
You will take the Enterprise to Starfleet Command and start
handing them out to everybody.
And the idea is they're going to take home that whole federation
with this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's awesome.
It's like an alien version. like the Borg only.
What if the Borg but sexy ladies with video games, you know?
Star Trek Appreciation Society, their latest fans in, what has
happened to the magic of Star Trek?
But that's the exact thing that Star Trek should be doing.
It's a really glorious era of the show, I think.
Not always, but definitely a good couple of times a year.
They should just go for camp, bum, sort of B movie, Star Trek.
I absolutely think that, yeah.
I mean, they kind of do.
To varying degrees of success.
Yeah, that's right.
Captain's Holiday, Cupid, Genesis, tapestry.
Like tapestry is serious.
It does have a serious moral in a way, but it also is just
hilariously camp and funny.
You have a bit in tapestry that always gets me.
So I know we're talking about upper episodes now.
But John, the...
That was very funny.
The bit where where he goes back to the ship after history's been
changed and he's this lonely lieutenant and Reich goes, I don't
really think you're for command.
You know, you're getting a bit above yourself.
I think you'll be fine, you know, in the bowels of the ship.
The look on Picard's body.
Do you know who you're talking to?
It's marvellous.
And I know.
And we've said this a 1000000 times.
This is the golden period of the next generation, you know?
They're odd, but they're knocking them out one after another. very
watchable sort of genre TV.
Yeah, worth saying, these aren't terrific character tales, any of
them.
No, no, no, but they're not intending.
It's fun to watch.
How can we object to that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And these sort of high concept stuff is what the other 90s Star
Trek things build on, I think.
I think given the amount we laughed through that episode.
I'm going to have to dismiss my somewhat, you know, cold comments
at the start and just say what a riot that was.
Yeah, 10 out of 10.
We're back at madness.
No, no.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to
find out what we're going to be doing next time.
It's my turn on the randomiser. and I am just going to choose 90s
trek.
Oh, wonderful.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that was so much fun.
I think we've had a bit of a kind of good round of 90s Streke
episodes, and both types are really fun to talk about, and who
knows, maybe we'll get a very mid...
Well, no, I think given...
So far, you just made that statement.
Odds are, it's going to be very boring indeed.
Very boring.
All right.
Well let's see how we go.
Lineage.
Which we did in episode three.
Come on, Bala, talk to me.
Oh my god.
Similitude, Star Trek Enterprise episode similitude, series 3
episode 10.
I think it's another one of those sort of, those 2 trips
episodes.
That doesn't sound very fun.
Probably again.
Okay, let's not do that.
These are the voyages.
No, it's not fun.
I'm following it again.
Yeah.
Series 7, episode 5 of Deep Space 9, yet another series 7, episode
of Deep Space 9.
Chrysalis.
So you know what that one is, don't you?
It's the 2nd episode with the jackpack.
Yeah, yeah, statistical probabilities and then chrysalis.
It's where they're trying to change the cosmological constant of
the universe. and they sing, do re, me, fas.
Oh, that is really great.
It is also one of those romance episodes where you're sort of on
edge because Bashir is technically romancing one of his patients
in his charge again.
Yeah.
All right.
I think we can move quickly on from that.
Oh, what do you think of this?
Your random Star Trek The Next Generation episode is season one
episode 20, Heart of Glory.
Always, what, the best episode of series one.
Possibly, it's the 1st Klingon episode of Star Trek the Next
Generation.
It's got some very good direction, as far as I remember.
So this is, this is, uh, Rob Bowman's 1st episode of TNG that he
directs, he goes on to direct Q Who in episode two.
He's our very good pair of hands when it comes to TNG and he would
go on to direct a ton of X-Files and one of the movies as well.
And you can see it on the screen.
I remember there's a sequence towards the end where they're in
engineering and he's shooting up through the glass and the action
is just being done in really dynamic ways.
I think that's probably something worth doing.
It's probably worth being nice about the 1st season as well
because let's be honest, we're not going to have many
opportunities to do that.
Well, there are things about the 1st season that I think are lost
that are genuinely interesting that are lost when we kind of get
the takeover at the beginning of series 3 and everything is kind
of homogenised and made a bit more sensible.
And I think we do lose something and part of that is in the
lighting in the direction.
We haven't quite established the look of the show.
So things happen in those series.
Yeah, that never happen again.
I think it'll be an interesting an interesting one to look at.
It is very mid.
And it's the 1st spotlight on Wharf as well.
Yeah, let's do it.
That's a really interesting choice.
Yeah, brilliant.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online is untitled Star Trek project
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social
media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 30th of April 2024 and released
on the 17th of May.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, The Next Generation, heart
of glory.
Yeah, good choice.
Yeah.
They haven't fully formed the Klingons as well.
So it's, you can see they're not quite raw, I don't think he run
walls on board yet, and he does all of that.
Well, yeah, it's like the 1st annual wharf Klingon story, but it's
the 1st one that's, and it's the one that's done without Ron
Moore.
And then we get, like, what's the one that happens in series 2.
Uh, Oh, maybe it's just matter of honour.
Um, a matter of honour, but that's not really war.
Riker, isn't it?
Riker goes.
Yeah.
And then we get the emissary.
Oh, brilliant.
Yeah.
It's not until late.
Actually, you're right. when we get into the later seasons, I was
playing on episodes, you get birthright and that are also boring
and shitty.
Yeah, the last series.
There's a couple of Cleveland episodes, which...
Yeah, yeah.
But I think that kind of happens.
Like, what's the K-less one?
Rightful, rightful air.
Yeah, that's so boring.
Like all of that stuff is sort of super dull, I think.
It is diminishing returns.
I think they made the right choice, actually, when they brought
the Klingons big into DSN Iowa. just go to war with them for a
year, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Like the shit out of a load of things.
Yeah.
Well, I still think, like, I understand why people don't like the
Discovery Klingons from series one, but I do because I think the
Kleons were so played.
And if you were going to do the clunes, you had to reinterpret
them.
And the film is already doing that.
Like the way the Klingons look in Discovery Series one is how they
look in Star Trek into Darkness.
Very similar.
Like the makeups is quite similar.
Like, and they're no longer cuddly.
Like they're much scarier looking.
Are they even around in discovery now?
We haven't seen them, no.
Yeah, maybe because there was such a reaction.
I just thought, okay, we'll park back.
Well, no, they are in Strangely Worlds, though.
They're in Strangely World Series too.
So we do see them and they do look much more like...
But there's actually a really great, like a, it's like a, it's
like episode 2 where Laan comes back and the Klingons are in that
and they're really good.
Like I think that's a pretty good episode.
Oh, yeah, actually, there's, and there's a thing with Mabenga and
um, and Christina.
Christine?
I think I called her Christina the other way, Christine Chappel.
Everyone's called Chris or Christine on that show.
Christina Chong, Christine Chappel, Chris.
I've got Roberts in all the Rogers.
Harry Cruz, are there?
And, you know, in DS9, good, Chris, though.
DS9, it's hard to figure out which of the aliens names, the actual
aliens or the actors.
You know, they're all for such weird names.
Americans.
I'm supposed to watch some of that. my week up.
I suppose we got another week coming.
In fact, my 2nd week off is a lot lighter than my 1st week off.
So, I, I, I just so enjoy it.
The last 4 days, I've so enjoyed just doing nothing.
It's so nice.
After a couple of walks and yeah, we watched some movies, but
that's doing nothing, isn't it?
No.
Nice.
Well, and we're halfway through Discovery Series 5.
There's only like 5 episodes left.
I'm liking it, but...
You know, all the things that I wanted, which were, it would be
lighter and more fun and a little bit kind of higher concept and
Celia and stuff.
Um, all of that's happening and the episodes have been quite
varied.
They did a strange time loopy paradox episode, which is sort of
like a cross between magic to make the sanest man go mad and, um
worst case scenario.
Um, like, and that was pretty good and it had a character thing
and all of that.
So they're doing weird, surprising things, but it's not, you know
when it's sort of being strange.
It's a little bit too kind of, we've mastered this now, we know
how to do it.
And part of what I liked about Discovery was just kind of that it
was a bit ramshackle and was never quite sure what it was doing
and it was doing things that were trying things that were strange
and stuff like that.
And then we've had 2 seasons of Strangely Worlds where everything
is behaving.
Do you know what I mean?
according to plan and well thought out and well done.
And in fact, the 5th episode just now used all of the enterprise
sets.
We actually go on the Enterprise, uh, or an Enterprise, but just
using the Strangely World sets.
And it is just a little bit too in control of itself, I think.
A bit like the poetry era, you know, it came in with series season
7, a shock to the system, and what the hell is this, and we've
never done any of this before, and then it just got very good at
doing what it was doing, but it was less edgy and...
Or maybe, maybe series 3 of Star Trek, the Next Generation, where
it's kind of like, let's put a stop to all this nonsense.
We know how to do this and so they just do it and it is sort of
confident and stuff, but it just kind of feels a little bit less
odd and experimental.
And of course, the big appeal for me when Discovery 1st came on
was like, this is TV, Star Trek, and I've never seen anything like
it before.
And it's like, I'm so here for that.
That's absolutely what I want.
I don't want to just capture the...
It's still discovery.
Do you know what I mean?
It still does things that TNG would never do, but it is stuff that
we have mostly sort of seen before, I think.
Right.
Yeah.
I probably really like it then, wouldn't I?
The other thing, too, is that I think they're finding it hard to
schedule the regulars and so so Detma and Owo aren't in it as much
as they could be.
And in the last episode, they seemed really clearly just absent.
Do you know what I mean?
In fact, Michael sends them off.
We don't even see something, but Michael says, oh, they're going
back to Federation headquarters to do a thing.
And so it's like they can't get those actors.
They've been in the season, but they're not in the whole season.
But they do have Tilly and Adira back who, and they cross both of
them in series 4.
They're off and they notice the last season, so they're off doing
auditions.
We can't, no, we've got no time.
The whole thing was interrupted 1st by COVID, and then by the
rider's strike, and so it's been going since 2017 or something
like that, you know, like it's been going a long time.
Think that we've had 4 series of lower decks and 3 of Picard and
like even 2 of Strangely Worlds in the time that that's been on.
You know, that's lasted longer than Star Trek the Next
Generation.
I wouldn't be surprised.
So they're finding it hard to keep the, and you know, that, like
that's a difference that discovery has over the other episodes
over the other shows mostly, is that the cast changes all the
time.
There are always people joining and leaving, which is good.
I think that's fine.
Um, But you know, you haven't got Saru on the ship.
Um, uh, he's still in it, but he's not on the ship, um, and he
wasn't in the last episode and possibly even the episode before
that.
I can't even remember.
So it all just feels like the party's over a little bit, I think
too.
Oh, it'd be interesting to see it.
Oh, I need to watch 4 first. and I need to watch.
The last lower deck season and I need to watch the 2nd stretchy
well season.
I reckon the 2nd Stranger World season should be the priority
because it's as fun as hell.
I've been watching Babylon 5.
What is wrong with me?
God, what are you thinking?
Oh, some of those costumes, mate.
It's a cardboard and the...
Every fucking cartoon spaceships.
Now, I won't say it's not enjoyable. because there's some bloody
good act.
Andreas Catsula is one of the regulars and fucking amazingly good
in it.
Yeah, he is great.
He's pretty good.
And so is the fellow who plays blondo piece of Jurassic.
He's terrific as well.
Every time they're on the screen.
I'm just gripped the rest of the time when Claudia Christian and
what's his name, Michael O'Hare and all that, I'm just like, oh.
Oh, the human characters are so boring.
He writes all of the aliens with eccentricity and humour.
So they immediately just very likeable, flawed, funny characters
and you love being with them.
The 2nd you go across 2 of them, and they do, honestly, it's the
worst example of daytime soap romance dialogue I've ever seen.
And because there's this sort of cod electronic score playing.
It is literally like a scene from Neighbours or murder she wrote.
Oh, man.
The woman's, what is it, she said?
You know, don't touch me unless you mean it.
I can't have you break my heart.
Oh no.
And yet people were telling me that this stuff is beyond criticism
you know, this fully formed TV show and the special effects.
Like there's real, there is genuine, it's leagues ahead of what
they're trying to do with TNG at this point, which TNG. just doing
flyovers. or things like that.
They're trying to do battle Star Galactica style effects of, you
know, X-Wings coming out, going in through the bowels of Babylon 5
and all of this ambition.
It's just the technology just isn't there for them to do it.
So it veers between being dynamic.
And a blurry cartoon.
You know, it's...
And you know, I've made a few comments about that and boy, oh, boy
I'll bring shit some pushback.
How dare you?
you know?
The 1st show to get it, right?
is Battle Cy Galactica, isn't it?
Like the new Battle Circle Galactica just absolutely nails.
The technology was there then, you know?
Yeah that's right.
Well, the right time to get it right.
Well, and because it does all of that.
Weird camera workout in space, doesn't it?
All the...
That's technology too.
You can't do that without the technology.
Do you know what I mean?
It's that odd camera work where you're even pulling focus, like
the camera guy's trying to find where the action is happening and
kind of like overshooting and having to pull focus and stuff to
get the, it's really clever.
I would never, as a director, I would never in a 1000000 years
think to take that approach and yet it's masterful, isn't it?
Yeah, it really sounds it.
It makes it seem real.
It's like, there's a news crew out there and space flying about
going, what's going on?
And also just the way that things fall as well. like the way that
like it does, like not everything's up.
You know, like it's not, you know, like Star Trek, the next
generation where everything happens just on a plane, you know, on
the same plane as if it's the surface of the ocean.
It's it's cool.
And yeah, you know, like, they did go to show, didn't they?
With the last season of Picard when they got the Enterprise D back
what you could do at that point with it ducking and dying.
It just, I was like, well, this feels very strange.
Yeah, this ship just moves in a very stately way, we thought.
You telling me it could do this the whole time?
All along.
We only do it on special occasions. you know?
Oh, there you go.
Look, you've got all kinds of Battlestar Galactica Babylon 5
compensations for the tag, you know?
for the tag.
That's right.