Hey, Joe. Hi there.
Today is an important day for us.
This is the day that we do our 2nd Star Trek, the original series
episode, and we've got a real winner on our hands today.
What are we watching?
Well, we're going from like opposing polls, aren't we?
We did the call might maneuver, which was like, as we both kind of
said, fantastic.
Yep.
And now we're doing, you know, one of the most successful episodes
in the Star Trek franchise.
Spock's brain.
I mean, just the title alone inspires me.
It's, uh, it's really something. kind of legendary, this one, isn't
it?
We were super excited when it turned up on the randomiser last
time because it is famously bad.
And I don't think necessarily it's the worst episode of Star
Trek.
Oh, no, not by long shot.
I like, like there are episodes of Star Trek that are painfully
boring.
Like there are many episodes of The Next Generation that are very
very dark.
This is not boring.
It's just, well, really fucking stupid.
That's the problem.
I have to say that just like I think that I counted the phrase box
brain happens like 14 times or something.
Like it happens quite a lot in dialogue and the use of the word
brain over and over again.
And the premise is so kind of stupid that it can't be an
accident.
Surely it's not an accident.
Well, I don't know, like, because there are many episodes of TOS
which I think are kind of being played with a wing to the audience
but I don't detect any of that here.
I feel as if this is being played as a drama.
And that's that is the funniest thing of all about this, you
know.
But it's just hard to imagine that no one involved realised that
it was stupid.
You know, like there's certainly you're right.
They do.
Shatner says that he was deeply embarrassed making.
And so does Leonard Nemoy.
Ronald D Moore causes the 2nd worst episode of Star Trek ever.
And it's only the 2nd worst because it kind of has like a
campiness to it that makes it bearable.
Like, everybody knows this is really stupid.
But for some reason, they just chose to sort of the director chose
to make this a drama rather than a comedy.
I mean, this is ripe for comedy, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, but the script isn't funny.
And so, like, what are you gonna do?
And playing it straight is a very strange choice, but that's what
they seem to have gone with.
Well, before we go in, I just want to talk about the pedigree. that
went into this episode.
Okay, because this is written by Lee Cronin, okay?
And that is a pseudonym of Gene Coon, who wrote a prolific amount
of TOS episodes and produced, I think, quite a bit of it as well.
This guy, it's kind of suggested that this is the guy that shaved
Star Trek and not Gene Roddenbury.
Right.
Okay, so I'm just going to read out a small list of things that
this guy invented, okay, in TOS.
So he invented the Klingons.
Khan Singh, Zephron Cochran, the definition of the prime directive
the naming of the United Federation of Planets, the naming of
Starfleet Command, like the building blocks of Star Trek, were
Gene Coon, and not Gene Woodenby.
And a lot of people say, so what happened in season two, Bread and
Circuses was written between the 2 genes.
Right.
And there was massive creative differences.
And Gene Rodenery essentially fired him and said, I think the real
story is that he quit.
And saying, look, you know, we just can't work together anymore.
And then he kind of, he wrote 3 scripts, I think it's 3 for season
three.
Spock's brain is one of them.
Spectra of the gun is one of them, a wink of an eye is one of the
wink of an eye.
So Spectral of the Gun and Winkle are actually both really good
high concept episodes.
I don't know what happened here, but there we go.
Was it revenge?
Was he so cross with rod and bree that he submitted spark
spraying?
By all lookouts, like Gene Coon, he's like famously one of the
fastest writers in Hollywood and he could literally turn out a
script or a rewrite overnight.
Right.
Which might explain a lot here.
If they needed a script in a hurry.
Well, this feels like it was turned out overnight.
You and I know that in another TV show that we love.
Doctor Who, that very creative things can come out of
desperation.
Yeah.
Perhaps that's not the case here.
And this was directed by Mark Daniels.
Now, Mark Daniels directed the Menagerie, Mirror, Mirror
Assignment Earth.
I think he's got about 9 or 10 episodes in his belt before this
and this was the last one he directed.
He didn't want to make any more after this after getting this
script.
He famously said, I don't like the direction the show's going in, I
don't want to be a part of this anymore.
Because I think we'll both agree that there is some pretty good
direction. in this episode.
Unfortunately, you can only direct the script that you've been
handed.
But the weirdest thing is, is so both of the director and the
writer have form and they have good, good form.
They've written and directed good stuff.
So what the hell went wrong?
Yeah, it's inexplicable, isn't it?
It's very, very strange. and we have a new producer in series 3 as
well don't we?
Well, you know more about this fella.
Fred Fred Freiberger.
So he comes in in series three.
The only reason I know about him is, I mean, I think series 3 has
a reputation for having some silly broad camp episodes.
He came into space 1999, which is another sort of Star Trek
adjacent thing that I really like.
And that did 2 series, and the 1st series was very stately and
very sort of inspired by 2001 and had beautiful sets and stuff and
was very sort of philosophical and things in a way that people
imagine Star Trek is, but it often isn't.
And then Freiburger came along in series 2 and just, you know
fucked it up, essentially, and made it stupid and kind of...
But I think, you know, it's interesting because there are some
interesting parallels there.
Now, and I think it is easy to point a finger at this guy and say
he ruined both shows.
I think in both Star Trek's case and in Space 1999's case, the
budgets were slashed a lot in the 2 seasons that he did.
And actually they wanted to cancel Star Trek after series two.
NBC had had enough of it.
The ratings had kind of dived a little bit, and they said, right
we've had enough, and it was only because of, and only a few shows
have succeeded in this vein.
Massive fan campaign meant that, oh, God, all right, we'll make
another year.
But we'll give it the death slot.
Yeah, they know that.
They promised that it would be a great slot and they gave it
Friday night at 10 PM when nobody was watching television and they
slashed the budget.
So essentially they were trying to kill off.
Star Trek.
And I think Shatner famously says, which box brain that it's like
basically like an ode to the NBC executives that wanted it gone
because this is what you get when you give it no time.
You give it no money.
The fact that it's made at all is probably a miracle.
And the fact as well, the fact that some of season 3 of TOS is of
worth, it's to their credit because, you know, they really, they
really weren't given this the resources it served.
Yeah.
That killing off Star Trek thing.
That didn't really work out although well, did it?
Well, no, they tried.
It's like the exact I wanted to kill off Doctor Who, isn't it?
Yeah, these days, that's right.
Quality endures.
That's it.
All right.
Well, speaking of quality, let's queue up Spock's brain.
This shall be the height of our podcasting experience.
Unless Shades of Grey turns up on the Randomiser, this is probably
the depths.
Oh, that's pretty great. right?
If we got shades of gray afterspot's brain.
What did we do wrong?
All right, so I have my finger poised over the play button.
So I will counter it in. 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off.
Are you watching the new effects or the old effects?
I actually have the old effects?
So the new effects are on Netflix or whatever streaming service is
still running this show?
But yeah, no, I'm doing the old effects, which are crummy.
Um, Well, I'm happy to report that the new effects are incredibly
good.
So this is a baffling scene.
Like, I just don't know what's happening here.
Did, like, did Mark Daniels, like, accidentally leave off page one
of the script?
Like, he left it at his desk and then he came down to the studio
floor and everyone is just standing around?
No one's saying anything.
There's no time.
Yeah, because they're all in awe of the mysterious objects that's
approaching the enterprise.
Oh, God, someone broke the ice.
Thanks.
It's it's baffling.
Like, is it meant to be tense because they're all just kind of
sitting around?
You know, it's just comparing it to the Corbamite maneuver, which
was sort of crappy in all kinds of ways, but had proper tension.
I opened up.
You remember that amazing shot above the bridge.
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely incredible.
But this, interestingly, this has an effect shot in a minute, which
is unique unto this episode, I believe, and that is Kirk standing
in front of the moving starscape.
Oh, we'd never done that before.
So even with a reduced boat, they're still trying to push the boat
out a bit. and do creative things.
So they would have just caded in.
It would have just been, you know, the thing was a square, so they
would just have keyed it in sort of optically or whatever.
And instead, they've got a back projection thing with the
Starfield actually running.
So it's a practical effect.
Oh my god, here she is.
The beautiful woman who's going to beguile them all.
Now, does she appear green when she 1st appears in the updated
special effects she still does?
It certainly does.
And now she's in a fabulous purple number.
Dear idea.
Every alpha describes her as a lady.
A lady comes on board the Enterprise.
It's so sad.
I mean, I can't think of more 60s costume than what she's got on
right now, do you know?
Yeah, yeah.
No, she's got my mother's hair.
It's absolutely a thing.
And I also think that this woman, look at these people falling
over.
That woman absolutely gives it her all.
There's Major Barrett, Robin B. Absolutely.
Jeez.
She's really going.
The lighting is really nice here.
It's really effective.
Look at her shadow against the wall.
Okay, it's a ridiculous sequence, but he is trying to give it a
bum.
Oh my god, a hero's got her legs open.
Shut your legs, love.
Oh, no, this is great.
The way she touches his head.
Yes.
That'll come off.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so I hate to inform you, but that's probably the highlight
of this episode.
I think there's I think there's a superb bit of direction when
they discovered that Spock is missing, which I will point out when
we reach it.
Do you know the bit of direction that always makes me laugh every
time that this every time Spock appears?
Like, there's a massive close-up on his comatose face.
Like dramatic zooms are, you know, very original trek, aren't
they?
Yeah, yeah.
This is uh, it's, it's very, very silly.
There's one where we throw to an ad break on that stupid face, like
and oh.
But you know what?
You have said to me before, though, you like original track
because it is willing to be a bit silly.
Oh, I, yeah, yeah.
Maybe this is silly over a cliff though, isn't it?
Well, I, it's maybe not silly that's the problem.
It might be that it's kind of boring.
And and thin.
Like, yeah, there's no real point to it, is there?
There's no... there's no substance to any of it It's just stuff
happening.
Yeah, yeah.
A whole bunch of things happen and then they go home, you know.
So look where the camera is now, it's where Spock was sitting
before, right?
So the cameras moved.
So that's exactly where Spock's seat is.
And so we can't see that Spock's missing because we're where Spock
is.
And I kind of like that.
So that's how we notice it. you know, we don't get a dramatic shot
of where Spock would normally be.
I just think it's a...
I just point out that and it's very distracting.
I think I messaged you whilst I was watching this the 1st time.
This is where Scotty discovered brewl cream.
So he suddenly slicking his hair back in a very cool way.
You know, it's kind of like a modern hairstyle really.
So yeah, these things in Sick Bay, you know, the instrument things
that still go over people that we still have inside. bio beds, bio
beds.
Oh, dear.
And he's got a space bandage on.
There's a whole heap of brain surgery that happens without kind of
interfering in any way with Leonard Nemoy's hair, which is pretty
impressive, I think.
I mean, they've got to put that bandage over him.
He's got no brain, you know, they're not gonna show us that, are
they?
What's Shannon doing?
Like what is Shatner doing here?
Look at all these...
Oh my word.
In a minute, in a minute, it's the funniest line of dialogue ever
when Deforest Kenny like proclaims, where in the universe are you
going to find Spuck's brain?
Yeah, normally that's a question that can be answered fairly
easily, you know, but right now.
It's not there.
Is this is this the most B movie?
Star Trek episode.
Yeah, and I think that that's kind of okay.
Like Star Trek doesn't have to be sort of philosophical all the
time or political or whatever.
And I think it is less those things than we like to think it is.
You know, there's a there's a strong strain of sort of B movie
shit in Star Trek.
I don't think there's enough these days, you know, though.
I think there's not enough B movie and trek.
In modern trek.
Modern Trek is kind of political, isn't it?
And, and, and intellectual and, but, you know, they get Rain
Wilson in to play Harry Maud and, and, you know, we've had the
Guardian of Forever on it and all of that sort of thing.
Like it absolutely leans into that nonsense.
It's still not embarrassed by it.
I think I think Star Trek the Next Generation is embarrassed by it
but I don't think Discovery is.
Star Trek the Nation is sometimes completely B-movie.
You remember the game?
You remember when they all turned into monsters?
That's pretty crazy, you know?
But I, you know, I will say, you know, you know, I always love to
like, pump up DS9 on this podcast, but in the magnificent Ferengi
when they absolutely do a homage to Spock's brain.
They do it the way it should have been done as a comic set piece.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I watched the magnificent Ferengi yesterday.
And it's possible that I'd never seen it before.
I really couldn't remember it and didn't know how it went.
And it is really, really cool. funny, isn't it?
Yeah, Christ, there's a lot of latex in that show, though.
Do you know, it's just it's full of like insanely camp, theatrical
actors, just going for it, isn't it?
But obviously they have the sequence at the end where the water is
anim- as an animated call.
Corpse.
Yeah.
Using neural stimulators exactly.
Exactly like Spock in this.
Yeah.
And it is a complete ripoff, but in a wonderful way.
Look at her.
The woman in the miniskirt just walked in front of the screen.
Look, they're just getting everyone to walk in front of the screen
now Kirk goes up there and he walks across as well.
We are showing off this special effect.
No, Sulu's kind of hot, you know, isn't he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's got the, it's the eyebrows, I think.
Don't think the hair's doing him any favours, but the eyebrows are
you know, honestly, you have got a serious issue with these beetle
haircuts, you know.
Yeah, I like them.
I think it's definitely a look.
It's a look.
Oh my god.
I've got to say, I'm seeing updated special effects now of this
beautifully rendered CGI enterprise. going across the screen.
And it looks it's just stunning.
Like, I know people that refuse to watch with the new effects and
you know, I kind of, I kind of get it, that they want the
authentic experience.
But like you said, if you can give this stuff extra life, you know
and some people will be painfully embarrassed by the original
model effects.
And, and, you know, the quality of the, you know, the film was a
bit rough in places.
You know, when they do the fade to black and the film drops down a
generation and all sorts of stuff like that.
What do we think of this, uh, schematic on the, on the view
screen?
I couldn't do any better.
If I'm honest.
I quite like it.
We're using Futura.
I'm a big fan of Futura as a font and there it is.
This is hilarious where they need to try and choose...
There's no sense to this scene. where they're going up.
Which of these 3 M class planets are we going to go to?
Just make a load of shit up and they go, well, we'll go to we'll
go to the ice planet.
All right.
We've not been to one of those for a while.
Yeah, no, it's uh, it's super boring.
I mean, it's just sort of crazy boring.
It's like...
Do you see Chehov here?
Chekhov, um, kind of uh, to decide explaining everything.
In series 2, there's this real, because he only joins the series
too.
Um, about him like being a student and, you know, finding his feet
as a as a young ensign and blah, blah, blah.
And I think this is now, you know, he's made it.
Look at it.
He can talk techno babble like the best of them.
But, like, this scene is just interminable, and it is we decide
which planet to go to, and there's literally no tension because, of
course, we know that probably Spock will get his brain back.
And, you know, by the end of the episode.
And so, you know, Kirk has to make a difficult decision between
these 3 planets, none of which looks promising, and he goes on his
hunch, and just a lot of space words get said, and...
The good thing is, Hunch was right then, isn't it?
Oh, yeah.
They do this. they do this fake tension count.
Like, if we don't find Spuck within 24 hours, he's going to die.
And then in the immediate next scene, there's a voiceover, we've
only got 5 hours to go.
It's like, do it even a day.
That's in a plain canaster and stuff.
It's a hurry.
Oh, God, yeah, so they're talking about, look, the ice planet, it's
it hasn't got any technology.
So that's an excuse to beam down and we're going to be attacked by
primitives in a minute.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there's sort of something happening.
It's Nathan, do not try and give this an intelligent reading, all
right?
Do not try.
I think I think it's ripping off the time machine, like very
clearly ripping off the time machine.
And so in HG Wells time machine, in the future, uh, uh, an
advanced race, like a scientifically advanced version of humanity
splits into 2 separate species.
And in the time machine, it's on, based on class, so the working
class become the Morlocks and the upper classes who live off the
Morlocks, work become the Eloy.
And the Eloy have devolved to such a point where they can't
speak.
So they can speak in the film, but not in the book, right?
And so you've got the 2 races, the Morlocks and the Eloy.
And here you've got the morgues and the eye morgues, and they live
in the remains of an advanced technology and something about that
advanced technology, their reliance on that technology has made
them stupid or something.
You know, they've averted it.
I'm sorry.
I cannot believe you've managed to give a small reading on Spock's
brain.
Well done.
But I mean, there's nothing to it.
It is all bullshit, but it's very clear that that's where it comes
from.
Now, I'm watching the original special effects version, and
basically what they've done is just scattered a bit of flour
around their shitty planet set.
Yeah, no, that's exactly, that's on the new ones.
But when they 1st beam down, Yeah, they've done this fabulous
mountain scaping. looks stunning.
I think it's so bad though.
Oh no, it is.
No, it is worse in the original version.
They did do something to the to the set in the in the updated
version.
At least they've made it. snowy. is blue.
It looks like a sky.
When they do these pinks and purple sky, it looks so fake, doesn't
it?
I love it.
Like, if I squint, I could almost pretend I'm on an ape.
Yeah, no, you couldn't.
And they put try and pull this shit in series one of Star Trek, the
next generation, you know, like 20 years later.
I don't think.
I don't think an alien punters ever look more like a sounds, like
stage in Paramount than in, like, hiding Q when they do that green
backdrop.
Awful.
But I mean, that's on the holiday, isn't it?
Or is it?
No, that's in a real planet, isn't it?
It's a real, it's a Q planet, but you know, yeah.
Oh, look at these, look at these primitive slur.
See, part of the problem too is that you can see the relics of the
time machine here, because the dialogue wants these to be huge
muscle men, right?
And they're not.
Like they just didn't get the note, did he?
No.
So, you know, all of our away team are men, but the men are not, um
morgues or whatever, they're kind of midway between the morgues
and the eyeborks.
Jesus Christ.
The I'm also the ones that are released by Apple, I think
probably.
But you know what, Nathan, you're a smart man.
Yeah, no, you have a smart profession.
I can't believe we're doing a podcast talking about the books in
the eye.
That's such bullshit.
Oh, life.
Our life has come to this.
Where do they get the nylon from?
Don't you love the way as well?
They entice them in with food in a cave, you know?
And then and then the door slams down and it's a lift.
It takes them so long to work out, it's a trap.
They're also dumb.
But the, so, so, so, oh my god, it's got his hair.
I'm sorry.
It's got his hair.
It's incredible.
Yeah.
But so this guy doesn't know the word man and or doesn't know male
or female and says that they're small like the women.
These guys, so these guys are meant to be giant muscle man, and
that would have been, I could have enjoyed that a bit more because
that is Super B movie, isn't it?
Chekhov is appalled in a minute.
He goes, oh my god, it's a humanoid and he doesn't know what a
woman is.
It's... leading into that thing that everybody's heterosexual as
well.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's it.
Like they describe the eye morgs as sources of pain and delight.
And so I guess the eye morgs, they bone, do they?
Like, is that what we're talking about?
Oh, I don't want to think about it.
I really don't want to think about that, you know, and I don't
usually mind that sort of stuff in podcasts.
But there is one like, okay, I said to you that the dialogue. seems
like it was written by a three-year-old because the dialogue is so
simplistic.
And the weird thing is, is the dialogue of the primitives and the
dialogue of the supposedly, you know, the smart people
underground.
It's all written in this incredibly childish kind of broken
English.
Yeah.
It's so tedious to listen to.
I'm just like, why am I watching this?
Well, I mean, you wouldn't do that now?
Like if Star Trek finds a species of people who are at a lower
technological level, we wouldn't patronise them quite in the same
way.
You know, the idea that people with low technology are stupid or
that their language is really simple, like we've never discovered
a tribe of people with a simple language, you know, like languages
always complicated.
And so like this is kind of, there's a sort of weird ass
colonialist kind of thing going on with this and and so that's
kind of a little bit hard to take.
See this, a storehouse for our muscular friends, you know, but
they're not muscular.
They're just slightly taller than them.
And then they've got the weapons and they're like, these were not
forged by the primitives.
But the thing is, is like nobody is talking with any
intelligence.
There's no contrast. you know, and it's and they're supposed to be
a contrast, isn't there?
And then even Kirk and all of this start talking in this weird
broken language as well.
Yeah, yeah, just when they're talking to them.
But this, like, why are they standing around wondering whether
this is a trap?
It just makes them look stupid.
It does make them look stupid.
You think only this scene makes them look stupid.
All the talk about Spock's brain isn't helping either.
But remember when the packlids turn up and they look for things to
make them go and go, you are smart and stuff like that.
No, no, no, no.
Because we talked about that.
That is a specifically tailored language to that alien race and it
makes sense within that culture.
Look at Darmok, where they're talking metaphor.
And it's smart.
Oh, Jesus.
The dramatic, the dramatic.
And you know what?
I love looking like that.
The music is like, da, da, da, da, da, da.
The music is actually pretty good in this episode.
Do you know the music later on?
Every time his disembodied voice comes along and it's like, It's
like this weird magic music. love it.
It's really good It is great.
I mean, we are literally, you know, reaching for scraps here.
I think there are elements of the design that I quite like a
little bit later, but this shitty cave set.
Well, is it the screensaver you've got behind you by the chance?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Spock's brain. brain is literally where Spock's brain is in the
episode.
This, what is this all about where he just lasers the raw?
Well, this is called eating up running time.
And I actually really quite like it, and they do do it in Star
Trek, the Next Generation early on, but you don't see it later.
And like it's clearly a sort of prop that's lit from inside.
And there's some really great sort of blowing on their hands and
rubbing their hands in front of the fire acting, which just
goes...
I mean, no, the effect is nice, but it's just pointless.
No, no, it's eating up running time.
It's like, well, we're going to wait here.
We may as well do something.
Yeah, we were really worried about whether Chekov would get cold
while he was waiting upstairs. pretty men, you know. are other
ways of keeping warm.
I guess so.
That's right.
What do you think the morgues do?
Look at that.
Nemoy.
Okay, so let a new my, uh, you know, famous equation.
He was so embarrassed doing this.
So let's see if we can see embarrassment on his face as he's
pretending to have no emotion whatsoever.
Oh, dear.
So they set your phases to gently lower herself to the ground.
They love doing these kind of futuristic sets coming out of rock
don't they, in TOS?
And that's quite nice.
Although the rock does look like paper.
It just looks like screwed up paper.
Yeah, that's been spray painted.
Yeah.
I like the lighting down here though.
It's all kind of 60s pop art liking, is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And gels, you know, like the gels that they do and it's pink
because this is where the ladies live.
So this is ladyland.
This is where they start talking about Morgan eye morgue, and I
just zoned out completely.
Yeah, with this, she doesn't know the word him. also sort of
stupid.
She doesn't know what a brain is.
They love they love man handling women in TRS as well.
Shaking them about, you know?
Yeah, yeah, it's like their property.
It's awful.
It is a bit awful.
And he does a fair amount of it.
I love those boots though.
I want to know where they're getting them from.
Do you think they have a teacher but for like bootmaking?
Maybe.
Yeah.
Not quite as nice as the purple ones, woman out at the beginning
no. one is lovely, but this is pretty good. and the boots are
fantastic.
Why is she so distressed?
Because she doesn't recognise who they are because they're not
primitives and they're not smart.
They're something different.
She's an idiot.
I don't know who can say.
She's just doing that.
There's a question about... the nature of them stealing Spock's
brain because maybe you can give me an answer because I couldn't
get it within the episode. itself.
Why did they need Spark's brain?
Uh, they just needed a clever brain to run the controller thing.
I don't know.
Why is that right?
Surely there was someone nearer.
He's the smartest person on the ship.
Well, I don't know.
Yeah, who knows?
Is it just because it's an episode of Star Trek?
Yeah, essentially.
I think so.
They were just waiting for a ship to go through the Sigma Draconis
system and they took the smartest person on board.
No one else goes there because it's a shithole.
I don't know, sing us to...
No, to get my engine going, you know?
It's a real star, right?
It's one of the stars in the constellation of Draco.
That's what it so it's actually a real thing.
They look like Klingons, don't they, those 2 that are flanking her
I think.
And is it?
Well, because they've got those Russian hats to make them look
taller because we can't cast any muscle men.
There's one cute morgue who comes in later on.
But like they just cast fat guys. because they don't have much...
Amazing zoom on Leonard V.
Second one.
Do you know what?
They just keep bloody lying down, didn't they?
Yeah, it's relaxing.
A woman in kinky boots, feeding a man.
I know.
And is he the cute one?
Not really.
He's got really bad hair as well.
I think he's been into Scotty's brill cream.
Yeah, this one maybe.
What are the women then?
The women are in child chair.
Are they?
No, they live downstairs.
So they're like the Morlocks or whatever and they live in space
corridors and then the men live upstairs in...
Yeah, Styrofoam rocks.
And, and, um, they, what, capture some of them and they bone and
uh, and that's it, really, I guess.
You know what service?
I have seen some pre-shitty B movies.
I've got a movie on my show called a nymphoid barbarian and
dinosaur Hell.
It ain't nowhere near as terrible as this, I'm telling you, right?
I mean, I mean, to just go for a script editor?
Well, I mean, the problem is that nothing much is happening.
I mean, the women are wearing fabulous boots and that's just about
enough to rescue the episode, but everyone is so dumb and slow on
the uptake that, you know.
Are those bombs around their stomachs?
No, they're pain inflicting devices.
Now we're in Batman territory now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. don't I don't know what they're called.
Oh, look at that fabulous lamp behind them.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
It's awesome It's very period.
Yeah.
What was I saying about fetching scraps?
No, yeah, but there is that fabulous 60s design to this and it is
a super cheap set, you know, and it's just kind of interestingly
lit and it's just sort of furniture from the warehouse or
whatever.
Like it's, you know, nothing hugely impressive.
But, you know, I don't know.
There's just something about the design of the original series
though, isn't it?
That is massively a It's kind of simple.
It's always a lot of geometric designs, isn't it, you know, and
shapes, but it's, yeah, it's very easy on the eye.
In the way that like the next generation could just look
incredibly bland in comparison.
Yeah, well, I mean, it's the same with 60s Bond films and stuff
like that.
I mean, they have Sir Ken Adam doing the design and they're always
absolutely stunning.
But, you know, it's one of the reasons... why people often jump
over to the Avengers and things like that is, you know, because
they're kind of samey stories, but the design work and the
fashions and everything, you know.
You want to be part of that world, don't you?
Yeah.
Well, I just think about when Dax puts on the miniskirt in trials
and tribulations and she's talking about classic, you know, 23rd
century design or whatever.
It's it's gorgeous.
You know, even the extras and stuff on the enterprise, there were
some fabulously stylish looking women and the hair here is just
you know, I remember watching trials and tribulations, right?
And when they're all in those beautiful original series costumes
and on the Enterprise, and then they'd ship back to DS9 at the end
and I was like, oh, I've never realised now fucking plain DS9 is
just... until spending, you know, a whole episode in colourful TOS
land.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, they've got colour and they're definitely going to
go for it.
You know, like most...
Brain and brain.
This is the best life.
Watch his brain.
I mean, that's good.
And look at Paul DeForest Kelly, William Shatner and James Doan.
They're trying to give this some gravity, aren't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look at look at James Bohune right now.
He's got like a look of shock on his face.
Jesus Christ.
I mean, do you think they behind the scenes, yeah, where the
camera was off there, we're like, oh, what is this we're doing?
What is what?
Well, that's like, look at this.
Look at this.
He's kneeling in front of her.
He's so not into it.
He's like, you can see Shatner.
You know, Shatner.
We talked about this last time.
Chatner has a kind of wry smile a lot of the time, like he's
slightly amused by what's going on, and I think it's charming as
hell.
And there's just none of that here.
He's just being a massive dickhead at this point.
There is a difference between what Shatner was doing in the
Corbinite movie and what he's doing in this episode.
Like, yeah, yeah.
In Cormart movie, they knew they were on to a success.
Yeah.
Here, now, that success has faded and they know that the NBC are
trying to cancel them.
And I think maybe maybe he's just not trying as hard.
Yeah, he's certainly not enjoying himself.
Like, that was fucking miserable.
That, you know, they turn the pain things on and he just starts
rolling, like literally rolling over and over on the studio
floor.
It's just stupid.
But the thing is, you know, were you worried about these guys on
the surface, whether they were cold because there was a shot of
them just to remind you that they're not?
irrelevant later on.
Oh, they know, I don't think so.
Do they come in?
I can't know. don't know. they do something useful?
Does anyone?
I really want that lamp you know.
I mean, I mean, it's a completely sparse set and a lamp.
The lamp, yeah.
And there's 2 of them, or they've moved that one into the other
corner. of the room.
Something's a premature. exactly the same.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I actually have a secret fondness for this scene.
Um, so they're being uh, they've been stripped of their
communicators and um, whatever their phases. and they're being
guarded by a morgue, and they have the pain plates on, and they
need to get their communicators so they can speak to Spock.
And, um, they talk about using science.
Oh, and then they punch him.
Then they just punch him in the face.
Yeah, no, this was the one scene where I felt like they were
actually having some fun.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and you know that sort of TOS chemistry we were talking
about.
This is the one moment where it kind of leaks in a little bit.
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's, I think it's super, you know, how we can gonna
correct the situation. science might provide an answer.
You've got...
If he's smiling, like he's really having fun, like...
Oh my god, look at the guy picking up Scotty.
Just through him.
That's it.
Well, they're supposed to be muscle man and there's Nimoy looking
bored.
And this is a pop... literally left over the table.
Did you see?
That kicks the guy in the chest.
And then in the nuts.
Finally, we're having some funny stuff.
Science will triumph.
Okay, well, that's over now, the rest of it.
We're just going to go back to something really boring.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, look at me, Moiler.
Oh.
I mean, at least he doesn't have to show any interest in this.
Well, he really isn't.
Do you know what they could have done?
They could, well, if they hadn't, you know, they could have like
taken Spot's brain back and he could have just been the
disembodied voice for the rest of the season.
Yeah, they could have just like used his body as a planter or
something like that.
Doesn't he say something along the lines of, oh, hearing your
voice, Captain Kirk?
It induces pleasure in my brain or something like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's sort of trying to be Spock dialogue.
You know, like a motionless Spock dialogue, but it's...
Did you hear that?
It just went on about the...
Major oblongata.
It's part of the brain.
Yeah, yeah.
You said that beautifully, you know.
McCoy has terrible difficulty with the word ganglia later, which
is super embarrassing for the ship's doctor.
You know, we were talking about you can't pronounce it.
That whole that whole sequence for it.
He suddenly forgets how to do it.
Jesus Christ.
What's the point of that?
Again, it's to eat up running time.
Do you think he's not going to be able to do it?
And it's literally like, you know, like, it's so obvious as well
you know, like, the knowledge is gone.
Oh, well.
We'll add one more stab of tension to this thing.
Yeah, yeah.
It's just tedious.
I did like, um, Spock saying that, uh, he would trust, uh, you
know, um, McCoy to Popazito or something and, or set a bone, but
not to restore a brain, like, D is there going, I'm right here, you
know, like, it's, uh, worse is when they, he reconnects his speech
centres and then Spock's going, right, I'm going to talk you
through it now.
It's so bad. vocal chords.
That is the producer was like, oh, this would be really fun.
What if he reconnected his vocal cords and he and he talked and
that wasn't even in the original scripts.
So they just because they were just making this happen.
They went along.
It's so bad.
Well, it's just kind of nothing is happening.
I mean, they are just kind of, oh here we go.
I've got a question about spot's clothes.
Why have they taken him out of his uniform?
Uh, I don't know.
He seems to be tucked as well.
Look, there's no sign of a, like, not that I'm looking
particularly, but he seems to be very, very heavily tucked in
there.
Now everyone at home is going to be looking.
He's the only one you can see because the others are wearing black
trousers, you see.
I have no idea.
We've got the pain giving devices attached to us.
I mean, Honestly, there's just, oh, it's just terrible.
Oh, now that's just a nice bit of design, isn't it?
The device that's holding a spot. brain.
Yeah.
No, it's very period.
It's, uh, I love that there's some sort of flashing uh, lights and
stuff like that, which I think look really fabulously 60s a bit
later, and I kind of miss that.
Spock's finally making some sense here.
He literally just said, this isn't making much sense.
You got to be careful with lines like that, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
We must act immediately.
So now we're just wandering a load of corridors, trying to find a
spot's brain.
It's, yeah, it's super undramatic, isn't it?
Oh, there's a nice design feature there.
So how could this be done better?
Could it be done better?
Um, I think there needs to be more incident.
It's so linear. like nothing happens.
They go down to the planet, they get attacked, they get captured
they wander around some corridors, they find Spock's brain.
Is William Shatner doing right now?
Yeah, when he's trying to pretend to being pain.
He's losing his shit.
This is him kind of going, NBC had better cancel this because I'm
done with this shit.
He really just isn't bothering.
If we make this as bad as we possibly can.
They may put us out of our misery.
That's right I mean, you're not telling me that Captain Kirk is
averse to a bit of pain, all right?
Yeah, no, but and so now, like, what's he doing?
Like, it all just seems...
Like, there's just a few buttons in there and like, is there a
take her bracelet off button?
How is this even working?
Yeah, he's read the script.
So yeah, he's remote controlling him.
Yeah, okay.
Oh, now I can stop doing my pain acting.
So, and so now, now there's this whole sequence where she has the
helmet forced on her head. and what the knowledge poured into her
brain because...
So so they're all stupid.
Like it, because the society has degenerated and the, the, all the
technical knowledge is in this sort of green basketball on the
desk or whatever.
And then there's like a hair salon hairdryer thing that goes down
over your hair.
I think that's rather fabulous, you know?
Oh, I do too.
I do too.
I think it looks gray.
Yeah.
Um, And maybe there's, you know, like the whole idea is kind of
preposterous, but I do like the idea that Spock is experiencing
this as if the kind of this complex was his body.
And so just the normal things that his brain would be controlling
where he says it feels to me like I'm breathing and that my heart
is, you know, pumping blood and stuff like that.
Like, I kind of like that, but, you know, clean pickings.
I think the tension in this is supposed to come from the fact that
everybody's favourite character is Spock.
Yeah, he's not in it.
He's in a situation of biological peril.
Yeah, you know, and we're supposed to be super invested in that
despite how utterly preposterous it is.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is, it's really something.
Yeah, that looks great, doesn't it?
That the helmet. that's quite a nice shot.
Okay, I want to ask you a question about the franchise at large
yeah.
Do you think there are there are stupider episodes than this?
I can only think of a couple. like threshold.
Freshold is definitely stupider than this.
I thought, what's the one?
Is it...
There's the one where they're all melting, all their faces are
melting on Voyager because they're really from the demon.
Jesus Christ, that shit. terrible.
I'm sorry.
I'm going to bring up that Gates McFadden directed episode from
TNG.
That's awesome.
That's really great.
Counsellor always turned into an amphibian and then as it off with
and then wharf breaks into her quarters and has it off with, I
mean, it's...
Yep.
No, I really like it.
But it is one of the ones that people don't like very much.
No, the home is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?
Alamarine.
Can't do four.
Alamarine.
Well, it's a little bit kind of pointless, you know, because we
think there's steaks, but there aren't, and we discover that at
the end and it's kind of like, well, why did you make us care
about that?
That's tedious.
What about Kurtzman Trek?
Are there any super absurd episodes of that?
Um, No, I think it's all, it's all a bit.
I don't think it's po-face.
Like, I do think it is funny and it does doesn't always take
itself seriously.
But there's nothing like...
I mean, they don't really, because I want it to be good.
So they don't want to do anything that's too ridiculous.
But, you know, like, I guess the silliest thing is in that
incredibly good episode in series one, the time one.
Uh, you know, the time loop one, which is being caused by Harry
Maud. series one or like the alternative universe stuff, because
that was where they really got so happy, silly and have fun, you
know?
It's really great But, you know, there's a serious purpose to the
to the alternative universe thing, I think.
It was when Waterface...
Cousin Michelle, cousin Michelle becomes evil.
I started doing all this amazing cry moves.
I was like, no, I mean, that is camp.
That's fantastic.
You've got a, what, 57-year-old woman kicking people in the head?
Like it's terrific.
Absolutely.
But this is kind of them. you know, he's Shatner now trying to
wring a little bit of tension out of this.
And he has stopped menacing her.
And it's icky that he menaces her when she has the mind of a
child.
But now that she's put the teacher on and is talking like a normal
person.
Um, you know, he's no longer kind of pushing her around quite so
much.
Did you see Scotty then?
Just sort of...
What was that all about?
I don't know.
Oh, that was in one episode.
Oh, okay. times in one episode, can they fall over or be in pain
or roll about the set?
Again, because everyone on in this episode is stupid.
All that Scotty has to do is kind of feign a bit of a feint and
distract her so that she can be conveniently disarmed.
But look, Shannon is having no fun here at all.
This is unpleasant to watch.
It's not, you know, when Shatner's chewing the scenery and stuff
like that, that's actually quite, quite fun.
Mad eyes.
She's like, she's giving him like such a stare, isn't she?
Yeah, she's pretty great.
Like, I think for a guest actress.
This is like grand, this is because like we can just come in.
I can just come in and beat camp as hell for 40 minutes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, dear.
All right.
Oh my god.
And so what, he's going to put the hairdryer on and suddenly
become a genius surgeon.
Do you know what this would have worked as?
This might have worked as a animated series episode, a condensed
episode.
Yeah, if it had been half an hour long, I think it would have been
tolerable, actually. you know, maybe not tolerable, but, well, I
mean, the idea is inherently stupid, right?
And you've got people saying Spock's brain, and there is something
there is something kind of a bit amazing about them deciding to
play it completely straight.
I mean, this does feel like it's geared at children.
Yeah, and I don't think the original series often does, like, this
it does just feel very simplistic.
Yeah, it's super simplistic and it's super B movie, like and it's
sort of weird and grotesque.
Um, But I don't think that's the problem, is it?
Like, it's the problem that they've stolen Spock's brain?
What about when they steal Neelix's lungs in, uh, yeah, see, that
works.
And that works, you know.
And he has that wonderful moment where wonderful.
It's really scary where he can't breathe and he has a panic attack
and he's stuck in the buyer bed and he's all claustrophobic.
Well, there's none of that going on here, is there?
No, no, no.
There's no acting from Shatna here at this point.
He's just standing there.
Deforest Kelly has just had all the medical knowledge of the
universe called into his brain.
I love when Scotty goes, oh, I might use that in a minute, you
know.
Technical the technical expertise.
I actually like this line, the one where he says, of course, even
a child could do it.
I think that's that's really cool.
Like that properly sells how much knowledge he has.
I'm absolutely there for that line.
Oh, look, I've...
Oh, Jesus Christ.
But look, of course, we're not actually going to see it.
So his head is behind a screen.
I would just see DeForest Kelly kind of, you know, doing...
Doing things like apparently like a foot above his head.
Like, do his do his arms really reach all the way down there?
Maybe his just a very long scalpel or something.
I don't quite know what's going on.
So then you get to the point at the end where it's like, okay, so
his brain is reconnected and he's all fine.
And so what was the point of this?
Did we learn a valuable lesson?
Yeah, we did.
We learned how not to make Star Trek.
Well, is this like, and we've deactivated Landrew, and now you can
all just kind of live your lives normally or whatever, like what's
happening.
Like, you won't have the controller, so you'll have to go up top
and fuck the morgues and have babies or whatever.
Like, I don't...
Like, a lot of T West does have, like, the director camera.
This is the moral of the episode, doesn't it?
Whereas there's none of that, because what could we possibly learn
from this?
But is isn't that in?
Like we'll stay behind and help you, but you can't live in the
remains of this technology that's infantilising you or something?
But it's all very undercoated.
How is that relevant to anything inside?
what are we learning as an audience?
Well, put your phone down. know, I don't know.
Ooh, okay, there you go.
That's a good reading.
Right.
Thanks, box, brain.
I'm going put it in the drawer.
Yeah, that's right.
Oh dear.
Do you know what's, do you know what's the worst thing about
Spot's brain?
Oh, I don't think it's the worst episode of the third.
So season?
Okay, that's the one with the demonic kids with the magical
bewitched powers.
And the dreadful light entertainment actor who appears as a
shimmering green ghost going, kill them all.
It's really terrible.
Oh my god, they put so much sweat on his face, haven't they?
Like, this is tense stuff now.
No, these is poor old Daniels.
What is his name, Mark Daniels?
Mark Daniels. wring some tension out of these, where it's kind of
like, do you think Spock will survive?
Who knows, you know, like maybe he's not going to make it.
Except that obviously he is.
I mean, that literally would be the nail in the coffin of Star
Trek.
If they remove Spock from the show.
Yeah.
Well, you know, he wasn't going to come back for phase two.
And they had another...
What was phase two?
So it was an attempt to make a new Star Trek series in the early
70s, I think.
And then eventually they just turned it into the movie.
Wasn't it greenlit?
and they even built sets and things. and then it was, the plug was
pulled at the...
There was some casting happening.
There were some scripts.
The child from Star Trek, The Next Generation Series 2 is a phase
2 script that they've repurposed.
Well of course it was.
I mean, I mean, the child from season 2 of TNG is Gene Robinbury
fruit and fruit, isn't it?
It's so crummy.
A female crew member being violated horribly.
Yeah, yeah, by Tinker Bell.
So bad.
Oh, see this is quite cute now.
This is quite cute where Spock.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. like the whole.
No, no, that's fine though.
But look, and Shatner's kind of got his old glint in his eye back
as well.
I think it's having Nemoy around.
Do you think he should deliver?
to have fun.
Like, well, this is a bit more fun and a bit less silly, and it's
the 3 main characters doing interplay, and they're all very good
together.
Oh, and then you've got, you know, 3rd wheel.
Scoffing as well, yeah.
But do you know what?
As the show goes on.
He does get a more prominent role in a lot of episodes, Scottie
you know, he's trying to muscle in.
He never quite makes it.
It's such a weird look.
I like his look in the films much more when he's a big fat guy
with the stars.
I know this ship, like the back of my hand, slam.
It's really fun. he's right.
Don't you know what the best part is, is when he picks up the
mouse in Star Trek 4 goes. tilt into the mouth.
Hello, computer.
So funny.
We got to do the films one day.
Oh yeah, no, no, we absolutely will.
Oh, dear.
So that's it.
That was the...
Does this end?
Hang on.
Is this a number 2 track episode that ends on a terrible joke?
Ends on a crap joke.
Yeah.
Like a really, really shitty crap joke.
It's miserable.
And it's kind of mean-spirited and racist as well.
Look, not a hair out of place.
Does it have that kind of...
I always do at the end.
Oh, look at me boy.
He's like, oh, this terrible joke where he's like, oh, I should
have, what is it?
I should have kept his speech centres off or something.
Yeah, yuck. you know that's dreadful.
And it's kind of like, aren't you supposed to be like science
people?
Why aren't you interested in this explanation?
You know, like it's not.
It's not that boring.
Yeah, it's very strange.
What the fuck has Scotty done in this scene?
Why is he here?
No, I don't know.
No, what's he done in this episode?
But what's that?
I think he's winding.
He's winging.
I come back for series 3 and then she just put me in more scenes
all right?
Yeah maybe that's it.
I'm still worried about Chekhov.
I hope that that glowing rock hasn't run out because I would hate
to think they were cold right now.
Yes, and we haven't cut back to...
It was completely irrelevant.
No, they didn't come back in.
Here we are.
We're all laughing at the crack cramp joke.
So bad.
It's, uh, yeah.
Do you know what, right?
Do you know what?
I'm going to be honest with you.
Yeah.
Oh, look at that fabulous alien monster there.
Did you see that?
That's from Spectra of the Gum. is a much superior episode.
Oh, okay.
Is that a Tholian?
No, no, no, no.
No, you don't really find out.
It's a weird green disembodied head in a black void that sends
them off to that Western town that they took the Mickey out of so
spectacularly in lower decks.
L X last week.
Well, the other week.
I could be completely honest with you, right?
Yeah?
I started talking about other ridiculous episodes in the franchise
because David was so little to talk about in the latter half of
that episode.
I think that that's the problem.
I don't think that the premise had to be terrible.
Like, I think the premise is stupid, but it has been known for
there to be other stupid premises in Star Trek episodes.
And I don't think that that's the criminal thing.
The criminal thing is how linear and how boring it is and how it
just fails as a piece of drama, you know, there's no stakes.
But you know something that the original series does so well is it
can be so much fun.
Like, go and watch something like the Trouble with Tribbles.
I mean, it's just like a sugar rush of an episode.
It's so much fun.
There's no fun in this at all.
No.
And, you know, even the ones where they go to, like, like, space
Chicago or, like, just ancient Rome.
Oh, and that one.
Oh, that's not a thigh in that episode, I'm telling you.
It's, I mean, it's stupid, but they're funny.
Remember when they go to Alice in Wonderland and the rabbit is
bouncing around in Southern California?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it can do preposterous premises.
That's not the problem.
The problem is that that's just kind of terribly tedious.
I think you just needed another run through the script to make it
overtly comic.
And a director that was just willing to go crazy with it instead
of just taking it also bloody seriously.
Yeah, although there is something pretty damn impressive
particularly about the scene where they are talking about Spock's
brain being gone and everyone playing it so straight.
So Nathan, I've got a question for you.
Why are you insisting that we do a 2nd Star Trek, The Next
Generation episode, beyond your complete love for that show?
Oh, that's basically the reason, to be honest, but we haven't
actually done a Star Trek The Next Generation episode since our
very 1st episode.
We've done 2 voyages and 2 Deep Space 9.
So I thought it would be time to do Star Trek the Next
Generation.
We've even done 2 TOSes.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
There's only 3 seasons of TOS.
And there are 7 seasons of the next generation.
So it's time that we got our Deanna on and um, yes, I hope we get
Deanna episode.
I love her so much.
Yeah, what about man of the people?
Imagine that.
All right.
I've got my finger on the button.
If it's man, the people, I'll just be, go on.
Oh, this isn't a bad one.
Go on.
So this is season four, episode 19.
It's the nth degree.
Yeah, I don't remember that at all, I'm afraid.
Yeah, so that's Barclay one.
It's the 2nd Barclay one.
Nah, push it again.
Okay.
Oh, this is the 1st part of a 2 parter.
It's the season 6 finale descent.
Oh, it's truly dreadful.
It's really quite dreadful, isn't it?
Oh, I'm almost tempting because we haven't we haven't done a two
parter.
Yeah, what do you reckon?
It's your call.
Well, we get Brent, you know, 2 Brents, in fact, that's
something.
Do you know what?
There's some fabulous discussion to be had around the complete
emasculation of the Borg and how they just got it.
Like, it's like the weak angel effects with every subsequent
appearance.
They just kept wrong. and worse.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What do you reckon?
Double the brand.
And I think in episode two, Dr. Bev gets to fly the ship.
I remember that's entirely possible.
And Hugh Borg turns up before... turns up as well.
And oh, and data is like violent, isn't he?
And has he moments of where he's really quite scary.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Actually that's pretty good.
Yeah let's do that.
This, I believe, there's Ron Moore's involved in this.
And it's pretty and it's pretty shit.
So that would be interesting to talk about as well.
Brilliant.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 27th of December 2021 and
released on the 14th of January 2022.
We'll see you next time for the Next Generation's descent.