WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:33:28

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So we're back on Voyager with a better episode than we did the

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last time we did Voyager.

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No, that's true.

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All of the other ones are better.

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This is Voyager, series 6, episode 3, Barge of the Dead, from

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October 1999, and it is, I think, the last episode that Ronald D

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Moore had a hand in. that right?

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A sad occasion, I think, given the impact that Ronald D. Moore had

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on Next Generation, Deep Space 9, and for a very brief period of 4

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episodes.

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Possibly the best 4 episode runs.

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Or Voyager.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so this is a story that's written by Ronald D. Moore and

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Brian Fuller, who co-created Star Trek Discovery, and the

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teleplayers by Brian Fuller, and it's directed by Mike Vajar, who

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is someone who directs a lot of them.

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Michael Vajar, I think, is the best director of the late 90s, early

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2000s.

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So he's the one that came in and did tacking into the win that we

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did recently, what you leave behind, Sacrifice of Angels.

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He directed Endgame, which I know we have things to say about, but

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it did look pretty great.

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Yeah, yeah.

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He's the one they give all the sort of event episodes too in the

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tail end of 90s trick.

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And I think he does some interesting things here as well.

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Yeah, I do too.

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I complain about 90s trek not wanting to look weird and this seems

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to be a script that wants to be weird that wants to show us things

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that we've never seen before.

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So some of it is the sort of same old Klingon stuff that we're

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basically used to since what, Heart of Glory, maybe a matter of

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honour.

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But there's all sorts of new elements here.

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And there's some great visuals, although I have to say, they're

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not quite as great as my memory of...

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No, my, you know.

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Still, it's like a cut above what I come to expect from Voyager

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which is pleasing.

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You know, there were a few moments where my eyeballs were

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titillated and that doesn't happen very often when we watched 90s

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trick.

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And then the other thing is that it concentrates on one of our

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favourite characters and one of our favourite actors.

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So this is a Balana episode.

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It's a Klingon episode.

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I finally remembered her again after 2 seasons of 7 of 9.

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We've got a new woman in the show, so we can't focus on the other

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women, of course.

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We can only focus on this new hot Jerry Ryan.

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And then I think somewhere between 5 and 6.

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I went, oh, do you remember we've got Roxanne Dawson?

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She can act as well.

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Let's give us something to do.

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And she gets this and she gets Muse this year and they're both

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great episodes.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And she's really good in them.

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She is really good in them.

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Going back to what you were saying about Brian Fuller and Ronald D

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Moore.

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I actually think that is a match made in heaven.

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Given the similarities that you and I have pointed out about Deep

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Space 9 and Discovery, that sort of, um, tentative arc building

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and strong character work that the both of those shows do and the

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sort of look sort of picking up the rock and looking at the

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dirtier side of what happens in the Star Trek universe.

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I think they complement each other really, really well.

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And maybe this isn't their best work, either of them, but I think

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I would have liked to have seen that collaboration go on because I

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think I, I mean, it can't, because then we wouldn't have got

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Battlestar Galactic, Erin, that was just one of the best genre

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shows we ever had.

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But I think this is a tantalising glimpse into what Voyager could

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have been if the 2 of them had continued working together and

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refined it a bit more, you know?

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Just about people, about the bloody characters for once.

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That's it.

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And part of the problem, I think, is that this is the beginning of

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year six, we've had 5 whole seasons, and Bellana hasn't really

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advanced very much beyond the kind of single paragraph outline

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that we get of her, presumably in the show's Bible.

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What was it?

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X-moquee, X-moquee, turned Federation Engineer.

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That's it.

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She's a Klingon, but she tries to suppress her Klingon side and

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her parents broke up, and we covered all of that sort of stuff

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particularly in faces, and in fact, in our sort of 2nd or 3rd

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episode of Untitled Star Trek project. episode, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, in lineage.

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So it's a thing that they go back to because it's basically the

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only thing that she's got going.

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And here, here it is more interesting, but they do explore it

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further, but it's a little bit too late in the day to try and base

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just an episode on that character and have it really properly

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work.

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And if we ever saw any evidence of this stuff in episodes that

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weren't about this, then it would be different, but we don't.

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And there's no real all out of this, is it?

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Lineage is another season and a half away, which is forget about

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this whole thing for a year, a year and a half and then we're

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going, oh yeah, I've already got issues about my lineage.

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Let's deal with that.

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I'm having a baby.

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And then once again, we never talk about that.

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It's not like DS9, is it, where they do remember the character

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beats throughout the show.

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It is weird how we dip in and out of people's anxieties as of when

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the show wants to cover them. we've covered that as well, haven't

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we?

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It's the problem with formulaic TV, you know, procedures.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And just not being able to do any sort of arc development.

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And so this is very good, but it is in a way a little too late.

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And while that stuff works really well, the other thing that I

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think is interesting is that it flirts with the idea of religion

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but I'll talk about it as we go along a little bit.

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I think it has some really good, interesting things to do, that it

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does some really interesting things with religion that Star Trek

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tends not to do, and that it does some weird sort of TV crap with

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religion as well at the end, which I think works rather less

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well.

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So I don't think it's got anything sort of strong to say about

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religion and I don't know that the character stuff with B'Elana

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lands, but.

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In spite of that, it's a great performance, the script itself is

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really good. lots of interesting things happen.

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It looks great.

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Like I think this is, you know, among the best Voyager episodes.

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Certainly of the ones that we've covered.

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Interestingly, you say late in the day.

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So this was originally supposed to be a DS9 episode that Ron Moore

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wanted to write, and it was about Martok and Wolf rather than

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Belana.

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I don't know whose parent was dishonoured.

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I guessing wharfs, because that's a that's a strong thing, isn't

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it, throughout DNG?

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And Ira Bear put the kibosh on that and said, no, it's too late in

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the day to tell this sort of story.

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We're doing all the war stuff now.

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I don't really want to get into this big treaties on religion and

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death. this late in the day.

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So, our bear had the knots to say, no, we ain't doing that.

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Well, of course, the Voyager writing room, we're going, my God

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look at this great script.

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Of course we've got to do it. much better than the shit we

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normally put out.

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Who cares?

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It's too late in the day.

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And rocks I get stuff to do.

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There is one brilliant thread through this episode, which we'll

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talk about when we're in there, and that is that they suddenly

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remember, and they've completely forgotten about this for about

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2.5 seasons, that early relationship between Janeway and Torres

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and just how brilliant those 2 are when they're on screen

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together.

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And I really like, it doesn't say anything in the last scene, but

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I really love the last scene of this episode.

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I actually felt very moved for 2 characters on Voyager. and I'm

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gonna tell you, Nathan, that doesn't happen too often for me.

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No.

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I was really moved by that final scene except for the involvement

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of Robert Duncan McNeil, but we'll get there when we get there.

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He does threaten to sing a lot of scenes in this episode.

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Let's him.

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That's one particular moment where he does his hysterical acting

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which I went out as we go.

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Oh my god.

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All right.

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I think we'll go in What do you think?

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I'm scared the next time we do a Robert Duncan McNeil episode.

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Just nobody's just going to be really mean about him.

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Yeah, don't let Ed please.

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I know he does his own podcast, so don't let him know we exist

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people, please.

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All right.

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I'm going to count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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This is our sort of general voyager opening.

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The shuttle shaking, sparks are flying.

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Palada Torres is in having technical issues.

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I actually thought this was okay, but again, it's sort of very

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constrained in a sort of voyage away.

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Like we only see into the shuttle bay through the shuttle window

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and so it never looks quite as impressive as it has it cool.

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That POV shot going through.

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Yeah, it's not period Voyager through the doors.

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Yeah.

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Unfortunately, it is exactly the same cold open as threshold

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except that time it was Tom Paris and...

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This time it's also not real.

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Here he is speaking for devil.

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Oh my god.

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So one of the things that really shits me about, about the

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character, not just Robert, but, but, but Tom Paris is that it's

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always about his feeling, like he centres his feelings.

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And so we're even in an episode of...

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Particularly in an episode about Torres, when she is in danger or

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where she's experiencing something, he's there to kind of tell us

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how he feels about it and he just annoys me.

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See, I love this one, the way I love it when Joe Wade chews people

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out.

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I get a little bit turned on if I'm honest.

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Yeah, so this is fun.

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So what's happening here?

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No, this is not fun.

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This is what Voyager does all the time.

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She calls her Lana for this one scene.

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She's never done it before, and she'll never do it again.

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But do you know why she doesn't because what's happening in this

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part of the story, this is the thing...

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It was just a dream now already now.

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Yeah, so this is all of this is the dream.

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We open with the dream.

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And so all this Klingon stuff is leaking into her experience of

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Voyager. none of this is real.

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She was in like a coma right now then.

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Yeah, she's in a coma right now in the eye on storm.

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And so because there is this thing where it explicitly kind of

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equates Janeway with morale, her mother.

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So that's why we have Janeway, call her Lana, which, again, yes, I

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love this hope until you...

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Even in her head, she's doing a normal Voyager episode where

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something from the Alpha Quadrant has ended up in the Delta

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Quadr.

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And I love the fact that they go, we don't know how.

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Maybe it's because the Borg assimilated a ship and it's just they

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just spat out the debris or maybe it was...

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Her theory is that they're saying brave Klingons came into the

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into the Delta Quadrant.

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Um, and she's dismissing that.

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But it does lead to the wonderful image of all of that blood

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coming up out of the symbol, which I was very badly realised.

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I think it's too large on on 90 Star Trek.

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Not a lot.

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We said that in reunion, didn't we?

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And I like it when you see the table from below with all the blood

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sort of just running out onto the glass table.

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I didn't think it was that bad.

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Yeah, it's a bit rough.

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I think it's not as bad as the bug is. patch on Tashi Yar's face.

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Oh yeah, yeah, no, but that's meant to be weird.

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Yeah, see, that looks pretty good, doesn't it?

247
00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:22.799
It's coming out of the logo, but then when it spills over the

248
00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:23.940
table, it looks really shit.

249
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.440
Do you know, I don't know if you noticed in that very 1st scene in

250
00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:29.519
the shuttlecraft, right?

251
00:12:29.580 --> 00:12:32.879
Tom Paris came up to Bilanosaurus and said, oh, you did.

252
00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:37.559
Nobody in any sort of existence would go up to somebody and ask

253
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:38.220
that question, would they?

254
00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.799
When I get a 1st day call at work, I don't go up the summer and go

255
00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:44.220
are you dead?

256
00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:45.240
No, I'm good.

257
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:46.919
Well, I'm going to treat you now. question.

258
00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:48.419
Yeah, yeah, that's the 1st question.

259
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.100
I'm not going to treat you if you say yes.

260
00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:56.340
So, at the moment, all April World's warning bells are going off.

261
00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:56.940
Uh-oh.

262
00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:58.440
Klingon symbol, blood.

263
00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.080
Bl Torres, we're in for a Klingon episode, everybody.

264
00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:03.179
You know, you can sort of zone out for this one.

265
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.500
Yeah, yeah, but it's not the usual thing because it's being taken

266
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:12.179
away from wharf, you know, is this the 1st Ronald D. Moore Klingon

267
00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:14.340
episode that has an involved wharf.

268
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:19.440
And so now he has B'Elana to play with, and she has some

269
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.799
similarities with Wolf, but like lots of differences as well.

270
00:13:22.860 --> 00:13:24.779
That's super interesting, isn't it?

271
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:29.220
It takes a little more to actually do a proper Klingon episode on

272
00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:29.879
Voyager.

273
00:13:29.940 --> 00:13:31.740
I don't think any of the other riders are that interested.

274
00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:34.500
It's his obsession, Ron Moore.

275
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:35.279
I mean, he wanted that.

276
00:13:35.340 --> 00:13:36.720
He wanted the Klingon spinoff.

277
00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:38.820
That's what soldiers into the Empires was all about.

278
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:43.379
It was supposed to be a pilot for Martoc to have his own spinoff

279
00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:43.740
show.

280
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.019
And when that was clear, it wasn't going to happen.

281
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.840
He said, well, can I just write that one episode then of just all

282
00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:49.980
of a Klingon cruiser?

283
00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:52.379
Think about the latex bill.

284
00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:53.759
It just would have been ridiculous.

285
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.179
I feel it would have been as successful as the lone gunman show

286
00:13:57.179 --> 00:13:58.679
was from the spinoff in the Exiles.

287
00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:03.240
Yeah. you know, 9 episodes. only lots of latex.

288
00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.480
Actually, you know what?

289
00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:09.539
As a complete side note, this only the child sequence, so it

290
00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:09.960
doesn't matter.

291
00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:12.779
Did you ever watch the pilot of the lone gunman?

292
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:17.639
Where the plot was, a bunch of terrorists nicking a plane to crash

293
00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:18.659
into the twin towers.

294
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:20.399
Oh my god, really?

295
00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:21.779
A year before that happened.

296
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.000
Do you think he didn't?

297
00:14:24.059 --> 00:14:25.379
Do you think Chris Carter did that then?

298
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:32.340
It's just a very odd coincidence. don't think they show it

299
00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:32.639
anymore.

300
00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.440
No, probably not.

301
00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:36.480
Ah, here's Harry Kim.

302
00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:39.059
Now, poor Harry as well.

303
00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:43.259
Like here he's been given, he's a little bit sarky and tired and

304
00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:43.620
stuff.

305
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:47.700
And so there's something going on for him in this scene, but he's

306
00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:51.720
just not really very good, unfortunately, and the camera doesn't

307
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.200
catch some of his, you know, some of the faces he pulls.

308
00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:58.679
He kind of, I can see him sort of trying and he just doesn't get

309
00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.259
you know, he's not saying it's very wrong.

310
00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:03.299
I mean, you've got rockside Dawson there looking absolutely

311
00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:03.899
beautiful.

312
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:05.580
Why would you be looking at Harry Kim?

313
00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:12.000
Oh, Harry is beautiful and he is he's more my type than Roxanne

314
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:13.860
who is undoubtedly very beautiful.

315
00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:16.379
I'm not too sure anymore, Nathan, if I'm honest with watching

316
00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:18.000
these pretty ladies in Star Trek.

317
00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:20.580
That's true Oh, no, here we go.

318
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:25.080
Neelix has come along to do his ambassadorial duties. ha.

319
00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:26.220
Daughter of the Empire.

320
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:27.840
I'm doing a party for you.

321
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:32.220
And so, and so part of the thing here, like why everyone's got

322
00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:35.700
such a sort of massive hard on for Klingon culture is that none of

323
00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:41.460
this is real, and this is, you know, the Naj, the, I think it's

324
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:47.759
the Naj, stupid. where she's pretending not to be on the barge of

325
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.700
the dead and all this Klingoness is leaking into the illusion

326
00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:51.539
she's constructing.

327
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:55.320
But I swear to God, Ron Moore, who's has written the story for

328
00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.139
this, yeah, possibly some of the teleplay has looked back over

329
00:15:58.139 --> 00:15:58.980
Voyager.

330
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.039
He's very aware of what they're putting out, and he knows all the

331
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.100
cliches, and one of the cliches is Neelix comes along with

332
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:07.559
whatever's going on this week and goes, well, we're going to throw

333
00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.379
a party in the, in the mess hole.

334
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:12.120
That happens loads of times.

335
00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:15.480
Things coming from the alpha quadrant into the Delta quadrant.

336
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:18.240
That happens, like, I swear to God, he's leaning into the cliches

337
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:18.899
on purpose.

338
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.740
Well, because this is a constructed version of Voyager that

339
00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:24.960
Bananas making.

340
00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:28.080
We can all just say it in the end, it was in her head. why there's

341
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.399
so many cliches in it, you know?

342
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.159
But in a way, it's a tell, isn't it?

343
00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:34.980
Like something odd is going on, we don't know what it is.

344
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.500
Why is everyone suddenly acting so Klingon?

345
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.860
And it starts here in this incredible scene.

346
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.200
This is wonderful, isn't it, this scene?

347
00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:50.159
So Tim Russ plays a Klingon in invasive procedures in series 2 of

348
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:51.179
Deep Space Nine.

349
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.879
Oh, have you Do you remember its performance in that?

350
00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:54.779
I've seen so.

351
00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:56.940
The 2nd he gets those teeth in.

352
00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:58.259
He was so over the top.

353
00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.039
It's glorious.

354
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:03.840
But he's great as a Klingon here, and it kind of works as well

355
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:08.160
because, you know, Klingons and Vulcans date from the 1960s and

356
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.700
they're very, very alpha quadrant, and in a way, they're kind of

357
00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:13.259
the essence of Star Trek.

358
00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:18.480
And so, you know, the fact that she doesn't behave like a Klingon

359
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:21.539
and has rejected her Klingon heritage is in a way kind of

360
00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:23.279
offensive to Tuvok.

361
00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:28.680
But like Tuvok is a Klingon kind of leaking through.

362
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:32.940
I do think this is the 1st time you properly know something is

363
00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:33.180
up.

364
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:36.420
Like the other scenes you could sort of write off as, okay, this

365
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.500
is our typical Voyager.

366
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:39.299
Now he's behaving so out of character.

367
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:42.599
You know what's another cliche, Voyager, is that when they give

368
00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:47.160
Tim Russ something to do that isn't being a monotone robot, he's

369
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:48.779
reliably excellent as he is here.

370
00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.359
Yeah, yeah, he's so good.

371
00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:52.680
This is really great.

372
00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:57.059
Like, I like, you know, like, I like that he cares about Klingon

373
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:57.420
culture.

374
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:01.019
I think when he gets angry, he's like the scariest thing in

375
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:01.619
Voyager.

376
00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:03.539
Oh, yeah, yeah.

377
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:04.500
He's really good.

378
00:18:04.619 --> 00:18:06.119
Holy crap, they waste him.

379
00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:07.980
Wait, can we get to Mel?

380
00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:10.920
He's in that room, Sailor Power's going to murder everybody.

381
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:11.880
It's really scary.

382
00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:15.359
I do like how he keeps the lights down as well.

383
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:19.200
It's a Warrior's blades. crafted for precision.

384
00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:22.740
I mean, look at how he handles the bat list.

385
00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:25.680
Yeah, he's really good, isn't he?

386
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:26.819
Like, woo hoo.

387
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:29.940
He sort of nicks her face, doesn't he?

388
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.440
Yeah, yeah.

389
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:34.500
And that's the beat, that's the beat where he goes too far and

390
00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:38.339
where she kind of gets cross with him and it looks, that's weird.

391
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.859
You know, it's your idea. therapy.

392
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:43.319
Oh, and that's super violent, isn't it?

393
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:45.480
Like he just like goes for a phase.

394
00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:46.920
He doesn't accidentally nick it.

395
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:49.500
He's like, it's really good.

396
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:55.440
It's, it's, and like you said, it's very dramatically lit at that

397
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:56.039
scene as well.

398
00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:58.799
Well, but it is always in his quarters.

399
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:03.839
Um, but yes, he is behaving very oddly and...

400
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.579
So sort of dog. in silhouette, though.

401
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.880
It's lovely Oh, I just think this is joyous this scene.

402
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:11.160
Not Neelix come along singing the Klingon.

403
00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:15.299
But, um, I love the bit in slow motion while they all get murdered

404
00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:15.960
horribly.

405
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:19.799
I was like, yes, Harry Kim, yes, stabbed in the stomach, you

406
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:19.980
know?

407
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:26.160
So this song, and I thought I had heard it a lot before.

408
00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:30.240
You have heard it on one DS9.

409
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:31.259
It's in Way of the Warrior.

410
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.039
Yes, yeah.

411
00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:32.519
Yeah.

412
00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:36.059
And so Martoc and and Worf sing it.

413
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:42.779
Um, and so this is the best Robert and Jerry Ryan singing it.

414
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:48.000
And I think any excuse you can get those 2 singing, you know

415
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.140
absolutely do that.

416
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.819
Well, they love, didn't they?

417
00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:53.460
Just a few episodes back and someone to watch over me.

418
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:54.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

419
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:56.640
I like the fact that she sings.

420
00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:59.819
She sings beautifully, but with a look of utter disdain on her

421
00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:02.220
face that she's doing it. just terrific.

422
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.799
Very hard to pull off, but she somehow manages it.

423
00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:09.420
I've got to say, right, this is probably, ooh, what is that

424
00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:10.500
ghastly food on the plate?

425
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.059
Is it gah?

426
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:13.740
Oh, that's, yeah, that's gosh.

427
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.279
Doesn't he say I injected it with a stimulant?

428
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:18.420
I mean, to make it move.

429
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.240
Yeah, yeah, because it's replicated, so it's not alive.

430
00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:27.420
So he's, he says a kinaesthetic agent or something. to give it a

431
00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:28.859
little...

432
00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:32.819
That is, though. poor even, Phillips.

433
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:34.259
I think that's his most annoying look.

434
00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:38.519
Series 6 is where they brush his hair to such a degree that he's

435
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:40.740
got sort of feathered hair coming out of the top of his head.

436
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:41.880
Oh okay.

437
00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:44.819
And he's put on a, oh, no, I've been going on about people putting

438
00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:49.980
on weight lately, but he has, is, is, Jacket is severely padded.

439
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:52.079
It's a bizarre look, he gets this season.

440
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:53.819
You go back and watch him in series one.

441
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.740
It's all much more muted.

442
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:57.720
Right, right, right, right.

443
00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:03.240
So, so this is the 2 of them talking and that's the problem with

444
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.599
the Roxanne episode is that the worst Robert always comes along

445
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:07.440
for the ride.

446
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:10.440
She's saddled with him.

447
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:11.039
That's why.

448
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

449
00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:15.059
But she's so much better than him.

450
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:20.279
So this is the, this is the religion thing that's happening, okay?

451
00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:26.880
And in particular, the breakup between morale and her racist

452
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:34.200
father seems to have been precipitated, not this time by by Balana

453
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:38.759
but by the religiosity, morale religiosity, right?

454
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:43.799
And we really play up the fact that Marah was super religious and

455
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:48.000
you know, sent her to a monastery when she was little after the

456
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.539
breakup and it was all rituals and honour and stuff like that.

457
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:53.759
And that's kind of interesting.

458
00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:57.240
We'll get back to it because again, he didn't interject then.

459
00:21:57.299 --> 00:21:57.960
Did you see as well?

460
00:21:58.019 --> 00:22:00.059
That was one scene where he just listened to her.

461
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:02.279
Yeah, talking about her childhood.

462
00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:03.779
Sometimes why?

463
00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:05.400
What about me?

464
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.359
Oh, this is great.

465
00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:10.500
Look, the lights have come down.

466
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:12.839
The flames are licking against people's faces.

467
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:18.480
Janeway is giving a very strange Klingon speech and now...

468
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.500
I think that looks great.

469
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:21.420
It's a slow motion stuff.

470
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:23.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

471
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:27.000
Look, I like after a lot...

472
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.279
They've turned the fucking lights down and it's suddenly more

473
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:29.940
atmospheric.

474
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:30.960
Yep.

475
00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:34.619
Every time we have a flame in the set, it's better than the usual

476
00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:35.880
strip lighting that they have.

477
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:36.660
That's right.

478
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:41.700
No, and the way he sort of is slow motion comes up behind them and

479
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:43.980
I mean, the size of that bloody knife he's got.

480
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:46.019
Gameway's being stabbed in the back.

481
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:46.980
The big knife.

482
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.640
Not sure how the doctor was murdered with a bat left, but it's in

483
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:51.720
Balana's heads, I don't know.

484
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.339
No, he gets knocked over, I sort of thing.

485
00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.440
Harry stabbed in the gut.

486
00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:56.819
Yeah.

487
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.660
Whoop.

488
00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:58.200
There he goes.

489
00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:00.059
They must have had great fun shooting this.

490
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:01.619
So you reckon all playing dead on the floor.

491
00:23:05.099 --> 00:23:06.119
Yeah.

492
00:23:06.180 --> 00:23:08.460
And so now we're going to Grethor.

493
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:12.420
And so Stovercor is where the honoured dead go and Greythor is

494
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:13.380
where the dishonoured...

495
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:14.640
That's really good, isn't it?

496
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:18.180
She gets hit by the batlether and then she wakes up in the in the

497
00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:18.900
barge of the dead.

498
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.619
It's not just that, I think, is a good set, and I do think that is

499
00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:24.180
a really good barge set.

500
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.220
It's the light and they're throwing it.

501
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.980
The wind they're throwing in it and he's doing what we said about

502
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:30.359
the Gorn episode the other day.

503
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:34.200
He's tilt in the angle to suggest movement and just to make it a

504
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:35.220
bit more visually exciting.

505
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:37.259
I think it's really great.

506
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:40.200
I think the scenes shot in this set are great.

507
00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:45.779
Okay, I'm going to watch the lamps. because I, do you think the

508
00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:48.779
lamps, the lamps would give away?

509
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:50.339
Yeah, they're swaying.

510
00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:52.140
But yeah.

511
00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:55.079
Look, you can't think about moving the camera and the lamps, all

512
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:55.380
right?

513
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.819
That's too much, but no one is trek.

514
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.940
And so she's been branded...

515
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.980
Yeah, I don't like all these pilots towards women.

516
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:12.240
It's horrible Well, yeah, but I mean, so it happens to both of

517
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.819
them, but it also happens to the other guy here.

518
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:16.380
So we have some other guy.

519
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:19.859
What's that guy, hitch car or something?

520
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.859
No, Hitchcar is the the 1st one.

521
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:24.900
Just throw a lot of consoners together, you each time.

522
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.980
Yeah.

523
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:27.779
So we have...

524
00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:32.099
Oh, look at that album.

525
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:33.059
The camera is tilting.

526
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:33.900
I think that's really nice.

527
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.019
I know it's simple, but it's way more than effort than they

528
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:37.559
normally go to.

529
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.400
But I'm just saying, are they tilting the set because they're not

530
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:43.079
tilting in the foreground so much.

531
00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:45.720
And they can sometimes do that.

532
00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:46.500
Yeah.

533
00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:53.880
So this guy is Harris from Enterprise from Section 31.

534
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.400
What, from series 4?

535
00:24:56.460 --> 00:24:58.980
The one who keeps talking to Malcolm Reed all the time.

536
00:24:59.039 --> 00:24:59.519
Yeah.

537
00:24:59.579 --> 00:25:00.119
Yeah.

538
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:02.039
Is he liaisons?

539
00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:07.680
He's in for the uniform, and he is in a bunch of enterprise

540
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:08.039
episodes.

541
00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:11.579
He's the captain of the other ship in fully uniform who tells

542
00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:13.980
Cisco he's got to stop going after Eddington.

543
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:16.680
I do remember that There's a couple of people in this, aren't

544
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:18.599
there, that do the rounds in Star Trek?

545
00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:23.039
Well, no, because there's only there's basically only 4 guest

546
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:23.819
stars.

547
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:29.220
So there's this guy, exposition Klingon, who is also, doesn't

548
00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:31.859
believe in the Klingon afterlife either.

549
00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:34.619
Did you say Exposition Klingon?

550
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:36.539
He's exposition.

551
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:43.200
We get Sherman Augustus, who has a big career, but this is his

552
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.099
only Star Trek.

553
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:48.299
See, they're shoeing off the set there, but it's not a long shot

554
00:25:48.299 --> 00:25:48.599
is it?

555
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:50.460
So you can't see it in its entirety.

556
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:52.380
No, you see it.

557
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:53.099
That's good.

558
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:59.640
Yeah, I seem to remember exterior shots of the barge, but this is

559
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:00.299
all we get.

560
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:01.380
They're just practical ones.

561
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:02.460
They're built in the set.

562
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:04.500
This guy's jumped overboard in this now.

563
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:07.440
He's in the CGIC now.

564
00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:08.279
Sea of blood.

565
00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:09.000
So great.

566
00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:10.799
That's that is actually pretty good.

567
00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:12.299
But sort of like sea snakes, aren't they?

568
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:13.140
They sort of...

569
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

570
00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:15.839
Or later on.

571
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.000
I can't remember the word that gets used.

572
00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:26.759
But later on, um, the, the word that, um, uh, that morale uses, she

573
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.720
uses that word to describe B'lana, she thinks B'lana is not real.

574
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:33.599
So there's some kind of supernatural something or other.

575
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:36.720
And so this is the 1st Klingon or something, isn't it?

576
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:37.920
Like, this is the guy.

577
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.079
And he...

578
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:44.279
So there's some story about the Clons killing their gods.

579
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.940
It gets mentioned in Dax's wedding, doesn't it?

580
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.220
Oh, yeah.

581
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:51.839
Oh, God, I do know the story.

582
00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:55.859
I've forgotten It's all very theatrically done. their gods.

583
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.500
And then the fella's very lonely.

584
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:02.400
And then the other the other Klingon woman heart comes along and

585
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.920
they come together and they're stronger than they were

586
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:06.779
individually and et cetera, et cetera.

587
00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:07.740
Yeah.

588
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:09.960
So his quarter is his name.

589
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:12.839
No, that's not right.

590
00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:15.960
I've, I think I've got the, I think I've got those actors mixed up

591
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.640
but I think this is Harris, this guy.

592
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:23.640
You know, it is a fairly fully realised society.

593
00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:27.660
Within all the episodes, all the Klingon episodes, you know, we do

594
00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:32.039
touch on how they do a wedding ceremony. you know, the afterlife

595
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:33.900
the political system.

596
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:35.880
It's covered quite thoroughly.

597
00:27:35.940 --> 00:27:40.859
In fact, it's, I think the, the, the Klingons kill their gods

598
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:43.680
thing might be a throwaway line in an X-Gen episode.

599
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:49.019
And certainly, like, um, Grethor, I think might get mentioned for

600
00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:50.640
the 1st time in Devil's Dew.

601
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:52.319
Really?

602
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:53.460
But yeah.

603
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:54.299
Yeah.

604
00:27:54.299 --> 00:28:01.980
Well, Antra, remember, appears as, um, is it Fekla?

605
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:09.000
You know, the monster, the guardian of Grethor. like a sort of

606
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:11.640
Klingon monster, but with sort of teeth and a sort of slavering

607
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:12.660
mouth and stuff like that.

608
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:18.839
Like, she just appears because Kang tells Kirk in Day of the Dove

609
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.960
there's no Klingon devil, but the underworld does have a

610
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:22.500
guardian.

611
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.680
We don't get to see Fekla, but Fekla does get mentioned here.

612
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.140
Okay, he's morale arriving.

613
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:35.640
So, morole is uh, Dr. Calandra from your favourite episode, nor

614
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:36.720
the Battle to the Strong.

615
00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:40.859
So she's the doctor that runs the hospital, you know, who talks to

616
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:43.319
Bashir quite a lot and says, the Klingons are coming and all of

617
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:43.500
this.

618
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:44.579
Right, okay.

619
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.220
That's sort of like your normal Star Trek stuff.

620
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.799
I'm sure she had a bit more fun doing this on that ship, you know

621
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:53.519
rocking about wind and lightning going and dressed up as a boy.

622
00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:56.160
She's literally 4 years older than Roxanne.

623
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:57.599
I know, isn't that great?

624
00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:00.539
I mean, you can sort of tell, right, but just go with it.

625
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:01.740
Yeah, yeah.

626
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:02.220
Yeah.

627
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.660
So this is real.

628
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:04.559
So this is real.

629
00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:09.059
She's woken up and this is her actual, when we're on the ship, that

630
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:10.740
is genuinely voyager.

631
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:11.339
Okay, thank you.

632
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:12.240
I'm so pleased to you.

633
00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:16.200
And none of that Klingon stuff is leaking into Voyager, except

634
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:17.640
look at her hand.

635
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:22.259
And that's actually, you know, like the doctor just kind of

636
00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:24.839
assumes that it's part of the injury that she got on the shuttle

637
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:29.940
or whatever, but she had it on, you know, on the barge.

638
00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:32.220
Yeah.

639
00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:38.160
My God, that was a 2nd Tom Paris scene where he just was concerned

640
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:38.579
husband.

641
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:42.299
Oh, no, not husband at this point. quite yeah, concerned, horrible

642
00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:42.720
boyfriend.

643
00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:44.940
I liked this scene a lot.

644
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.180
Not really because of what they were saying, just because of their

645
00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:49.500
body language.

646
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.859
I could really tell it was 2 actors that are used to working

647
00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.039
together because they get a lot of scenes together and just 2

648
00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:58.019
characters that are comfortable being around each other.

649
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:02.400
There's a lot with how tactile people are on screen together.

650
00:30:02.460 --> 00:30:05.640
And I just like how he sits on his bed on her bed, sorry, very

651
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:07.980
comfortably and talks to her here.

652
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.619
It's not very interesting what they're saying, but they're mine.

653
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:14.519
Well, this is more religion stuff and this actually plays into the

654
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:15.359
end of the episode.

655
00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:24.299
So she says, she asks him about his religious beliefs, and we know

656
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.339
that he's a fake Native American.

657
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:28.980
We're in trouble, whatever we were asking Chakotay about his

658
00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:29.700
beliefs, yeah.

659
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.359
Doesn't he say, he does mention his people, the beliefs of his

660
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:34.079
people at some point.

661
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:34.920
I'm like, okay.

662
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:36.420
He talks about his grandfather.

663
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.160
He talks about his grandfather.

664
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:42.660
And so she says that she had this sort of afterlife, you know, near

665
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:43.980
death experience thing.

666
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:47.400
And he says, well, that's gonna be what you hallucinate because

667
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:48.839
your mother went on and on about that.

668
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:50.940
So it's unsurprising.

669
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:52.079
You experience that.

670
00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:59.579
And his line is, you're being too literal about this, that these

671
00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:02.819
images are produced by your brain and you need to think about what

672
00:31:02.819 --> 00:31:04.259
they mean more deeply.

673
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.099
But yeah, here, it's your subconscious dream, right?

674
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.539
to tell you something.

675
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.319
Yeah.

676
00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:10.799
Yeah.

677
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:15.119
So he thinks that she's wrong to think that this is actually a

678
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.660
literal afterlife and that she has to go back and save her

679
00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:19.019
mother.

680
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.440
And that's where the episode lands, I think.

681
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.079
And I think that's a little bit of a shame because it would have

682
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:29.880
been more fun had it been more ambiguous had we not known that

683
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:34.380
this wasn't the afterlife that she'd been experiencing.

684
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:36.299
That line there.

685
00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:37.079
Did you see it?

686
00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:38.039
so on the nose.

687
00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:39.539
She goes, I'm an engineer.

688
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:42.960
I've spent my life inured in schematics.

689
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:44.339
I'm like, oh, please.

690
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:45.900
Who talks like that, you know?

691
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.180
Brian Fullo, will you try again, please?

692
00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:52.859
Well, he did, and he's done much better. got fired for it as

693
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:53.099
well.

694
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:59.460
Oh, I suppose, but again, it is 2 characters on this show that

695
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:03.660
normally just talk techno babble and, you know, bridge politics or

696
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:06.720
whatever, actually talking about faith.

697
00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:11.220
So it's an effect, but this too, like the way she's playing this.

698
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:12.180
She's so good.

699
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:13.799
Like, that's really real.

700
00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:17.220
She's saying, my mother's been on my mind a lot lately, which is

701
00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:20.099
just an unusual voyager thing.

702
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:21.599
Do you know what I mean?

703
00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:23.940
Because it sort of acknowledges that they do things that aren't

704
00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:25.680
just the episodes that we see them in.

705
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:28.559
And it's been 10 years since she's talked to her.

706
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:29.279
No, I know.

707
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.559
She's eluding to it, but yeah.

708
00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:32.160
Yeah.

709
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.460
Yeah, but it's like, I show now.

710
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.220
A show now would sort of lead up to this, wouldn't it?

711
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:39.359
and lead away from it.

712
00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:41.279
You'd have a moment in an episode.

713
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:45.839
Now, but in Voyager, they just do it in that one episode and then

714
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:46.440
we move on.

715
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:47.640
That's right.

716
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:51.960
And so again, here is the worst, Robert.

717
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.480
Here's the worst Robert with her.

718
00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:56.759
Oh, come on, he says, it can't be that bad.

719
00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:58.319
Yeah, yeah.

720
00:32:58.380 --> 00:32:59.579
Shut up to embarrass.

721
00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:05.220
Well, again, you know, oh, yeah.

722
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.799
Anyway, I just think that's what you're loathsome in this

723
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:08.099
episode.

724
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.519
I just think he's absolutely loathsome, Paul.

725
00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:17.039
And I feel like that's the voyager's biggest era in its 7 year run

726
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.859
is ever giving a shit about Tom Paris.

727
00:33:20.099 --> 00:33:21.839
Is it?

728
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:25.140
know whether it's because he's the straight white guy on the show

729
00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:29.039
and so they want to foreground him more, you know, like, and he

730
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:33.660
has to be, but he's here to mansplain what she should do at all

731
00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:33.960
times.

732
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:36.960
Like, I just find him... you know what?

733
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:39.960
What do you care if that's if that's, you know, that you said your

734
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.220
mum to the afterlife and all.

735
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:42.839
Go wait on Paris.

736
00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:44.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

737
00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:46.859
I care because I love my mom, all right?

738
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:50.339
Yeah, yeah, like he makes no attempt to understand her is all

739
00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:52.200
about telling her that she's wrong.

740
00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:56.339
No, she said to him, I have a chance to rescue my mother from this

741
00:33:56.339 --> 00:33:57.240
terrible fate.

742
00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:58.859
He's going, well, it's not real anyway.

743
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:00.119
Don't worry about it, you know.

744
00:34:00.539 --> 00:34:02.339
Yeah, that's right.

745
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:04.680
The wedding would be off for me at this point.

746
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:06.000
Oh, no.

747
00:34:06.059 --> 00:34:07.140
He gets one great one.

748
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:07.980
What do you mean, Nathan?

749
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:08.579
You want to go back?

750
00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:11.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

751
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:16.500
I mean, it's hard to know how to react.

752
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.659
Yeah, and I suppose he is.

753
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.380
He said they are respectful what you believe in. you're starting

754
00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:23.099
to scare me now.

755
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:24.059
That's it.

756
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:25.079
You're starting scare me.

757
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:27.539
Let me talk about my feelings for a while here.

758
00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:31.079
Can we send to this conversation on how I feel about it?

759
00:34:31.139 --> 00:34:33.780
This entire episode might be built around your difficult

760
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:36.420
relationship with your mother and the Klingon afterlife.

761
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.159
But can we please talk about my feelings?

762
00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:39.900
That's right.

763
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:45.179
So, and then the lease too, because one of the things, you know

764
00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:50.039
Janeway is a scientist and she's had episodes that have portrayed

765
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:54.659
her as being adversarial towards religion, what we rolled one and

766
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:56.460
then said, no.

767
00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:01.679
And then, like when she says, I'm going to let religious practises

768
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:05.039
go so far, but only so far, you don't.

769
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:05.820
I do too.

770
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.599
And I love the fact that she chooses an extreme example.

771
00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:12.539
What have your religious practises meant you sacrifice babies on

772
00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:12.960
the ship?

773
00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:16.380
See, I think that's really negative and offensive.

774
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:20.039
And I think that that's a bit of a weird thing. place for her to

775
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:20.219
come.

776
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.380
If I say something about me, then I'd laugh my head off at that

777
00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:22.619
line.

778
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:26.639
No, no, but you just, but you just say, come on, no one

779
00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:27.840
sacrificing babies.

780
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:28.619
Do you know what I mean?

781
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.960
I'm doing a thing in a controlled environment or whatever.

782
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:33.420
And but now she's just saying, this wasn't real.

783
00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:36.539
And she says it's real to me.

784
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.639
And what do we, where do we go now?

785
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:39.659
Do you know what I mean?

786
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:41.159
How can we possibly argue this?

787
00:35:41.219 --> 00:35:43.679
And the trouble with these scenes is, these things are always

788
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:45.480
pointless because you very often.

789
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:49.019
It happened when B'Elana and Tom started having their relationship

790
00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:52.079
together and they were getting all kissy kissy in the corridors

791
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:53.760
and the Jeffries tubes and things like this.

792
00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:56.699
And Janeway went, there's only so far I'm going to allow

793
00:35:56.699 --> 00:36:00.539
interpersonal relationships on this ship and then she just lets it

794
00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:00.840
happen.

795
00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:04.139
And the same with this episode, she says, it's only so far let

796
00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:06.719
religious experiences go on in this ship and then it happens

797
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:07.079
anyway.

798
00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:09.539
So they're always...

799
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:17.340
But you see, I think it happens because, you know, she's put in

800
00:36:17.340 --> 00:36:20.880
the position of a parent.

801
00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:22.440
Don't you think?

802
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:27.960
And one of the things that you do when you're a parent is that you

803
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:31.980
have to let people make their dumb decisions.

804
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:37.920
You can't just make rulings and forbid things.

805
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:42.659
You sometimes have to let your kids do a thing that you think is a

806
00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:43.380
bad idea.

807
00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:46.440
Um, and here, well, here we go.

808
00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:50.099
Here's Tom, you know, give his view and take on this.

809
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:51.059
Yeah.

810
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:55.980
That's got to be an easier one.

811
00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:58.260
Go to church or something.

812
00:36:58.320 --> 00:36:59.039
Oh, Tom.

813
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:00.960
Yeah, yeah, church.

814
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:02.039
It's a Christian thing.

815
00:37:02.099 --> 00:37:03.599
Klingon's doing our man.

816
00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:05.460
Thank you, Tom, for all the answers.

817
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:06.420
Too kind.

818
00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:09.059
No, no, he's going to find all the answers.

819
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:10.079
He's going to solve it.

820
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:11.880
There you go.

821
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.119
There's a mild threat there where he goes, I just hope there isn't

822
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:15.480
next time.

823
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.260
Oh no, I think that means that we I hope you don't die of this.

824
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:21.360
I do like the line.

825
00:37:21.420 --> 00:37:22.619
You come back.

826
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.019
You came back from this thing as a born again.

827
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:26.159
Klingon was pretty good.

828
00:37:26.219 --> 00:37:30.300
I hope she doesn't die as well because do you remember how much of

829
00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:31.739
a cunt he was last time she dies?

830
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.820
Awful.

831
00:37:32.940 --> 00:37:35.219
Inside and revolution on Voyager.

832
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.099
And all that bad acting.

833
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.659
I would not even kiss him now.

834
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:40.800
Don't touch her.

835
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:42.900
Spin it for you.

836
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:44.400
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

837
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:47.340
And none of that was about comforting her.

838
00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:49.619
That was all about making sure he was okay.

839
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.860
Well, I think in terms of the script is just someone objecting to

840
00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:53.639
it, isn't it?

841
00:37:53.699 --> 00:37:56.699
Someone saying, you know, to bring a bit of drama to what's

842
00:37:56.699 --> 00:37:57.239
actually going on.

843
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.019
Yeah, but it always has to be him, doesn't it?

844
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:04.500
Going back to, actually, it's something I said to you in our chat

845
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:04.860
Red.

846
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:09.360
And that is that this is very functional Voyager plotting, that

847
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:10.199
all of this stuff.

848
00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:13.079
The thing appearing in the Delta Quadrant, Neelix doing his

849
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:13.500
party.

850
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.239
Janeway objecting to the thing.

851
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:17.039
Tom Paris shouting his head off.

852
00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:20.219
All of it is cookie cutter Voyager.

853
00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:21.960
Yeah, from HB to C.

854
00:38:22.019 --> 00:38:25.139
I think the difference with this episode is that a lot of the time

855
00:38:25.139 --> 00:38:28.679
the character stuff does hit, mostly because of the actors and

856
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:30.059
sometimes because of the writing.

857
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:34.440
Um, and just because I think the barge is so interesting and

858
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.619
realised. that it's somewhere that's worth going to, you know?

859
00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:41.820
Yeah, so here we go.

860
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:46.380
So they're kind of putting it asleep, aren't they, so that she can

861
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:47.699
appear back on the barge.

862
00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:52.260
And let's look, the camera just goes there and looks at the worst

863
00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:53.940
Robert, just so that we know how he feels.

864
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.940
But I do like Jangwei going, kapla.

865
00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:58.320
Yeah.

866
00:39:00.059 --> 00:39:02.760
She's object anymore, is she?

867
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:03.900
She just, oh, off you go.

868
00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:09.420
Yeah, this is so much more interesting than the voyager says.

869
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:12.840
Can't we go here for the rest of the series?

870
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:16.440
Well, it's a bit monochrome.

871
00:39:16.500 --> 00:39:18.119
It's very brown.

872
00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:25.079
And she looks fabulous in that sort of warrior's outfit, doesn't

873
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:25.320
she?

874
00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:26.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

875
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:27.840
We should see more of that.

876
00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:31.619
And I do like that because, you know, she's been dragged off

877
00:39:31.619 --> 00:39:32.579
Voyager.

878
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:35.039
So she's wearing her Voyager outfit the 1st time.

879
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:36.539
She turns up here.

880
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:39.239
She's here deliberately by choice.

881
00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:43.559
And so when she turns up, she's in a Klingon outfit, it makes

882
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:43.860
sense.

883
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:46.260
You know what it means?

884
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:48.480
It feels like, because it's all about smoking there, right?

885
00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:49.920
A wind's sort of whipping it around.

886
00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:53.880
It feels like they're facing the elements, like when we go down to

887
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:55.260
Voyager colony planets.

888
00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:57.360
It never feels like there's any weather at all.

889
00:39:57.420 --> 00:40:00.119
It's just sort of the lighting grid above them, you know, telling

890
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.380
us whether it's bad or night.

891
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.659
It does actually feel like it feels like they're sort of

892
00:40:03.659 --> 00:40:04.320
outsider.

893
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:06.900
No, they're not outside for once, but...

894
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:10.260
Well, the thing about the enemy in Star Trek, the Next

895
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:10.739
Generation.

896
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:12.239
That's reasonable.

897
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:13.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

898
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.900
Yeah, and that's just that's when they bought the women's machine

899
00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:16.260
I'm honest.

900
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:17.159
Exactly.

901
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:17.820
Yeah, yeah.

902
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.420
Yeah, yeah.

903
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:20.340
We're going to get some money out of this tonight.

904
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:22.739
Never got to work.

905
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.139
Stop Ryan leaves at me enough, enough.

906
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:28.619
Right, get the rain going.

907
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:29.280
Come on.

908
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.460
Well, it just looks a bit less like the studio.

909
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:33.000
You're right.

910
00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:36.179
It looks a little bit like the real world, just like those scenes

911
00:40:36.179 --> 00:40:39.239
you know, once they start learning to do sunlight in the studio

912
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.460
that helps a bit as well.

913
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:42.539
Yeah.

914
00:40:42.539 --> 00:40:44.280
And in fact, you know what?

915
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:51.300
Latter-day 90s trek, they do learn how to light that colony set.

916
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.739
Like kids day and night.

917
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.360
They do get there.

918
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:56.280
It takes a long time.

919
00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:01.260
Well, I think the inner light is where I remember it really, really

920
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:01.800
well as well.

921
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.219
There's scenes where they go off and do the planting and it's all

922
00:41:05.219 --> 00:41:09.840
filmed outside a dusk and they get the sort of that sort of golden

923
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.659
light in perfect in the colonies there as well.

924
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.659
The colony said, Jesus Christ.

925
00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:19.019
What are we doing here?

926
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:24.659
We could be doing great things with our lives.

927
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:30.659
I wanted to give you Anna, Belana.

928
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.280
Oh my god.

929
00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:35.820
No, I would like to say to anyone listening that.

930
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:38.460
Every single time I've said the Lana at the end of a line I've

931
00:41:38.460 --> 00:41:38.880
quoted.

932
00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:42.360
It's in fact not there, but I just feel like it belongs there.

933
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:44.159
It does, I think.

934
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:50.340
Yeah, she actually hangs a head on it, doesn't she?

935
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:52.619
We're on the barge of the dead and we're having the same argument

936
00:41:52.619 --> 00:41:56.760
and it's like literally the same argument that comes up in every

937
00:41:56.760 --> 00:42:00.360
Balana focussed episode that we ever do.

938
00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:01.800
So...

939
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.320
Well, I mean, I do like the fact that here the focus is her mother

940
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:06.840
and in lineage, the focus is her father.

941
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:09.059
So we kind of get that so for both of them.

942
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.000
So it's a kind of fleshed out family by the end.

943
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:18.840
Neither one of them quite gets it right, but... no, that's right.

944
00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:20.820
And I like this too.

945
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:22.800
I actually really like this.

946
00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:27.059
She can't come back and perform the ritual and then just have the

947
00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:29.940
doctor wake her up and it doesn't work.

948
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.000
You know, the 1st Klingon guy, Cortar, or whatever.

949
00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:36.420
Like he, um, he just says, what do you think?

950
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:37.860
I was going to be tricked by that.

951
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.539
You know, this is the afterlife.

952
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:40.619
It's real.

953
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:44.099
You know, you can't just come in and do some Star Trek shit.

954
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:45.960
And she won't accept it either.

955
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:47.519
She doesn't want...

956
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:51.119
I would rather save that. damnation with what little honour you've

957
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:54.179
left me, then cheat my way into Stovercore.

958
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:55.739
Yeah.

959
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:59.159
This fella at the wheel is having a great time.

960
00:42:59.219 --> 00:43:00.840
He is pretty good.

961
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:01.920
Yeah.

962
00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:04.980
So she's got to take her mother's place now.

963
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:08.699
You know, I'm going to, does that mean she's going to get shoved

964
00:43:08.699 --> 00:43:10.920
off the ship and eaten by those terrible snakes?

965
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.719
Or she's just going to stay on the bar?

966
00:43:12.780 --> 00:43:13.739
turn up at the end.

967
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:16.320
She stays on the barge until it reaches Greth or and then she has

968
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:19.980
to go in Greth or and that does happen because the plan doesn't

969
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:20.219
work.

970
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.579
They can't wake her up in Sick Bay.

971
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:28.619
And so she actually does end up going into Greth or we're almost

972
00:43:28.619 --> 00:43:29.940
at Greth or now.

973
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:33.119
So can I tell you about the special effect of how they realise the

974
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:33.539
doors?

975
00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:35.280
Yeah.

976
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:36.480
Hang on.

977
00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:36.960
Please go.

978
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:37.559
Oh, here we go.

979
00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:40.139
The Gates of Grethel, one of the most complicated shots of the

980
00:43:40.139 --> 00:43:44.579
show, combining Dan Curry's map painting with Photoshop pictures

981
00:43:44.579 --> 00:43:50.760
CGI environment modelling, and digital muse coals, and water to

982
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:51.360
complete the effect.

983
00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:52.980
You're yawning.

984
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:54.840
Yeah, no, sorry.

985
00:43:57.780 --> 00:44:01.619
The depths of research I've done for this and you're yawning.

986
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:02.760
It's very interesting.

987
00:44:04.739 --> 00:44:09.780
It's 3 things that come together to create that effect and it does

988
00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:10.559
look primitive now.

989
00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:13.019
But I think then I was very impressed.

990
00:44:13.380 --> 00:44:19.260
Yeah, look, and and like because it is an attempt to do something

991
00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:22.380
that we haven't seen before, I'm there for it.

992
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:24.360
Look, now she's got the brand on her face.

993
00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:27.059
It's the sort of thing. remember when we went to Vagra 5 or

994
00:44:27.059 --> 00:44:30.780
whatever it was, Met Armos, you know, and it was a fabulous oil

995
00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:31.619
slick and all of that.

996
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:32.519
We said, you know what?

997
00:44:32.579 --> 00:44:33.719
It's shit, but it's weird.

998
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:36.360
And they sort of lose that a little bit.

999
00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:37.320
Yeah, there it is.

1000
00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:37.920
They look.

1001
00:44:37.980 --> 00:44:40.440
Yeah, it does look pretty great, doesn't it?

1002
00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:43.320
I'm not sure I'd want to step over those hot coals, if I'm

1003
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:43.559
honest.

1004
00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:47.400
Yeah, and like it needs to look kind of lurid and hyper real

1005
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:49.920
anyway, because it's a dreamscape or whatever.

1006
00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:52.800
So the fact that it doesn't look particularly realistic is fine.

1007
00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:55.800
I don't think that's a problem. when the door's open, it gets even

1008
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:59.579
more melodramatic and all the fires of hell are raging behind the

1009
00:44:59.579 --> 00:44:59.820
doors.

1010
00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.219
It does seem hard, doesn't it?

1011
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:04.679
It doesn't seem, well, they're great. doesn't seem hard.

1012
00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:08.219
There are some spars, you know, where you can step over hot coals

1013
00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:08.579
like this.

1014
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.820
I can't say I... any of them.

1015
00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:15.719
Oh, yeah, look at the CGI flames on there, not too great, are

1016
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:15.900
they?

1017
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:16.860
Oh, pretty great, aren't they?

1018
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.019
It's after effects.

1019
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:24.599
I think they're just trying to, you know, highlight it's quite

1020
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:25.380
unpleasant there.

1021
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.059
Yeah, yeah.

1022
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:28.380
Well, then it's like hell.

1023
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:29.159
Do you know what I mean?

1024
00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:32.579
Like it's just like our, you know, like Christian mythology around

1025
00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:33.599
hell, I guess.

1026
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:38.219
And look, the Kleon symbol upside down is the symbol of Grethor.

1027
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:39.420
Do you notice that?

1028
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:40.199
above the gates?

1029
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:41.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1030
00:45:43.139 --> 00:45:45.300
Oh, wait.

1031
00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:47.400
It does...

1032
00:45:47.460 --> 00:45:48.960
Does that mean she's nearly dead?

1033
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:53.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. how you get Deanna back to life in man of the

1034
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:53.639
people.

1035
00:45:53.699 --> 00:45:56.699
With the usual skill, I might ask.

1036
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.659
It's just pressing a hyperspray to someone's neck, really, but

1037
00:46:00.659 --> 00:46:01.199
there we go.

1038
00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:06.420
It does add weight to the fact that all those times when we've

1039
00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:11.519
talked about dishonour in starting TNG and DS9, you know, this is

1040
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:15.179
what they're facing if they do dishonourable acts.

1041
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:17.460
So I suppose it does add a bit of weight to all of that.

1042
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.880
Yeah, but this is where it goes to shit, I think.

1043
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:26.940
And so Greth or, it turns out, is, as usual, just the Voyager set

1044
00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:30.300
with some lighting changed and all the regular actors.

1045
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:32.519
The camera on a table. weirdly.

1046
00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:33.300
Yeah.

1047
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:38.400
And, and, like, I feel the trouble is here that Robert Picardo can

1048
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.239
pull off this sort of, um, sort of the evil acting and Ethan

1049
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:44.159
Phillips perhaps can't.

1050
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:48.539
Yeah, but I actually just think the problem with this is it's so

1051
00:46:48.539 --> 00:46:49.320
fucking tired.

1052
00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:51.059
Like how many times?

1053
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.280
I mean, we still do it on Discovery, I think.

1054
00:46:53.340 --> 00:47:00.179
Do we have the ship's corridors standing in for the, you know, a

1055
00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:03.539
dreamscape or an interior of someone's mind or something like

1056
00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:03.840
that?

1057
00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:07.380
And it, well, see, those fecla...

1058
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:08.039
I mean, well done.

1059
00:47:08.099 --> 00:47:10.320
Have you noticed how they've pumped smoke into the corridor there

1060
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:12.360
and they've got the lights coming from above?

1061
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:15.179
It's, it's, it looks different from usual.

1062
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:19.260
I know, I know, yeah, but we found it a 1000000 times, aren't we?

1063
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:19.559
You know?

1064
00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:20.280
Yeah exactly.

1065
00:47:20.340 --> 00:47:25.800
And what's the implication here, that B'lana is in hell on Voyager

1066
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:27.659
because she's a scientist and not a Klingon?

1067
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:34.440
No, I think that what's happening is this calls back to the

1068
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.920
conversation that she had with a medium, Robert, before where he

1069
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.619
said, look, this isn't a literal afterlife.

1070
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:48.420
This is a dreamscape and you need to understand it on that level.

1071
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:51.539
So if you just go in there thinking, this is literally you saving

1072
00:47:51.539 --> 00:47:55.440
your mother from damnation, that's not what's going on here, but

1073
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.679
there is something going on here and you need to learn something.

1074
00:47:58.739 --> 00:48:02.699
And so this is this, it now becomes what that's about.

1075
00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:05.820
So all of the dreamscape that she's experiencing in this near

1076
00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:09.239
death experience she's having is all about her.

1077
00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:12.059
And so now we have all the characters wandering around talking

1078
00:48:12.059 --> 00:48:16.559
about her and what she's like and she has.

1079
00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:20.579
Yeah, see, he's Chakotah actually saying that to her, are you

1080
00:48:20.579 --> 00:48:21.420
interpreting these?

1081
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:24.719
These are symbols in your subconscious, and that's something

1082
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.840
that's come from that conversation that she had with him before

1083
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:29.519
although that might not have been real.

1084
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:33.900
Anyway, it doesn't, yeah, no. in one brilliant moment going, you

1085
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:38.219
know, this is what has brought your dishonour, Balana, and to the

1086
00:48:38.219 --> 00:48:39.119
gates of Greth.

1087
00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:40.500
When she gets to camp it up a bit.

1088
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:40.980
She wonderful.

1089
00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:47.820
But look, and so here is Miral, but in Janeway's uniform, right?

1090
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:51.960
And it looks like we're on the barge now, the way it's being shot

1091
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.360
even though we're still on the Voyager set, you know, like it's

1092
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:57.719
still those Dutch angles and the brown and all of that.

1093
00:48:57.780 --> 00:48:59.760
She goes, forget the ritual.

1094
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:00.420
It's meaningless.

1095
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:01.739
Like God, somebody said it.

1096
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:03.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

1097
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:04.320
But that's it.

1098
00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:09.420
So this is where it just becomes really, really overwrought, I

1099
00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:14.460
think, because it's all about what we know about B'Elana from her

1100
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:16.980
one paragraph bio.

1101
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:21.780
And, you know, it's the same conflict that occurs in every B'Elana

1102
00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:22.260
episode.

1103
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:27.719
So... just like lineage, people just shouting hysterically at each

1104
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:27.900
other.

1105
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:30.480
That's not dramatic.

1106
00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:32.280
I think it is, but it's not.

1107
00:49:32.340 --> 00:49:33.840
It's daytime soap drama.

1108
00:49:34.019 --> 00:49:35.760
Yeah, yeah.

1109
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:36.719
And that's a good job.

1110
00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:40.980
I did really like, I really liked her mother saying, um, I'll see

1111
00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:41.940
you in...

1112
00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:45.119
Stovercorn, or maybe when you get home.

1113
00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:46.980
I do really like that line.

1114
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:48.900
And that was underplayed.

1115
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.000
So he actually had a bit of weight to it.

1116
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:54.780
And I did like seeing her in the uniform as well because it is

1117
00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:58.739
sort of making explicit that Janeway is the surrogate mother.

1118
00:49:58.800 --> 00:49:59.460
Yeah, exactly right.

1119
00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:02.039
And then that is then paid off in the last scene.

1120
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:04.679
Beautifully paid off in the last scene.

1121
00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:06.300
Silently, I think.

1122
00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:07.380
I don't think they say a word.

1123
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:11.579
No, but my God, you act as to your best work on Voyager when

1124
00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:13.260
you're not given terrible dialogue, say.

1125
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:14.760
That's right.

1126
00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:15.300
That's right.

1127
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:21.300
Oh, she wheels the bat lift quite well, but yeah, this is...

1128
00:50:21.300 --> 00:50:23.820
Tell me what you want me to be. blah, blah, blah.

1129
00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:24.900
A good star beat, officer.

1130
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:26.460
A good marquee.

1131
00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:27.420
A lover.

1132
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:28.440
A daughter?

1133
00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:31.860
Jesus like, come on.

1134
00:50:31.860 --> 00:50:37.980
Nathan, just tell me what you want from me. that's right We only

1135
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:38.639
want you.

1136
00:50:38.699 --> 00:50:41.519
We're not your enemies, defend yourself.

1137
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:42.659
God.

1138
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.659
And all of this is, oh, my God.

1139
00:50:45.780 --> 00:50:47.880
And then she throws the weapon away and stuff.

1140
00:50:47.940 --> 00:50:51.000
But like, she's not very much like that.

1141
00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:55.619
Like she is generally just doing plot functions and stuff.

1142
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:58.320
Yeah, that's quite a good shot where she's going into the sea

1143
00:50:58.380 --> 00:50:58.920
yeah.

1144
00:50:58.980 --> 00:51:01.199
Flash of lightning just made it come alive.

1145
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:02.400
Yeah.

1146
00:51:02.460 --> 00:51:04.980
But yeah, all of that stuff, don't you think?

1147
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:08.400
It's just sort of bullshit, really, and a little bit overraw.

1148
00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:10.139
Like who thinks like that?

1149
00:51:10.199 --> 00:51:15.119
I don't think anyone in real life says, I'm so tired of fighting.

1150
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:17.099
They're so tired of fighting.

1151
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:19.619
That's definitely a soap line, isn't it?

1152
00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:25.320
But if you think about her as a precursor to Starbucks, you know

1153
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:31.739
who is religious, and who is properly defensive and has things to

1154
00:51:31.739 --> 00:51:36.300
prove, and it behaves like that all the time, not just in episodes

1155
00:51:36.300 --> 00:51:41.159
where it's about that, where I think that, you know, Starbucks is

1156
00:51:41.159 --> 00:51:43.619
not a 1000000 miles away from B'Elana's character.

1157
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:45.119
It's like B'lana Dunright.

1158
00:51:45.179 --> 00:51:45.719
I don't think?

1159
00:51:45.780 --> 00:51:49.559
I can see him taking this seed of a character and creating

1160
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:50.699
Starbuck out there.

1161
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:53.760
And that's sort of the fire in the belly as well, you know, but

1162
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:55.380
all the anxiety is underneath.

1163
00:51:55.500 --> 00:51:58.320
They're, oh, their look.

1164
00:51:58.380 --> 00:51:59.760
This.

1165
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:00.599
That's so nice.

1166
00:52:00.659 --> 00:52:02.340
The weight, oh, there's time.

1167
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:03.420
Fuck off, Robert.

1168
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:05.159
This is not about you, this scene.

1169
00:52:05.219 --> 00:52:06.300
Go away.

1170
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:10.440
Like, he touches the small of a back, the fucking creep.

1171
00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:12.360
It's having a moment.

1172
00:52:12.539 --> 00:52:15.659
They're having a moment, the 2 of them, you know?

1173
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:18.780
Yeah, he has to come up and inject himself into it.

1174
00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:24.480
No, I like the way the Kate Margaret holds her back that way. in a

1175
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:26.940
way that when you're really, really protecting somebody.

1176
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:32.820
But Kate is also smiling and a bit surprised.

1177
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:34.199
Do you know what I mean?

1178
00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:38.280
Like, she's surprised and pleased that this is what this is what's

1179
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:38.579
happening.

1180
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:40.380
I just thought it was so real.

1181
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:46.139
It was a really really good moment. and um Roxanne buries herself

1182
00:52:46.139 --> 00:52:48.900
in Kate Mulberry's neck as well.

1183
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.659
It's just, it's just, it's so intimate.

1184
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:54.539
And yeah, you don't really get a lot of this in Voyager.

1185
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:55.440
Really.

1186
00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:56.519
And you could.

1187
00:52:56.579 --> 00:53:00.480
Like, you know, the thing that discovery does is that everyone

1188
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:01.380
loves everyone.

1189
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:02.400
Do you know what I mean?

1190
00:53:02.460 --> 00:53:05.400
and some people find that tire somewhere over the top, but this

1191
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:12.599
would have worked in Voyager because, you know, Tuvoc and Janeway

1192
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:14.280
are old friends.

1193
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:19.619
You know, B'Elana is reminded of her mother by Janeway.

1194
00:53:19.739 --> 00:53:25.139
Janeway cares about Harry because, you know, he's about the age

1195
00:53:25.139 --> 00:53:28.679
her son would be if she had a son and he doesn't have his mother

1196
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:29.219
with him.

1197
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:32.880
You know, all of these things are built into the premise, and

1198
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:34.739
these people aren't just workmates.

1199
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:36.719
They live on the ship.

1200
00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:39.659
So they could be doing this stuff.

1201
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:41.940
They spent so much time telling us that they're a family.

1202
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:43.679
I mean, Janeway states it a lot.

1203
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:44.639
We never see it.

1204
00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:45.780
Show us.

1205
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:46.139
Yeah.

1206
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:48.119
Whereas actually, I think...

1207
00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:49.920
You know I always make the DSM comparison.

1208
00:53:49.980 --> 00:53:54.360
But I think because on DS9 it's made up of families, so courtroom

1209
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:58.260
and nogs, are they always touching each other, relationships, Cisco

1210
00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:00.239
and Cassidy, they're always touching each other.

1211
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:06.599
Kira and Odo, like Bashir and O'Brien, weirdly, quite a tactile

1212
00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:07.199
relationship.

1213
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:09.659
You know, so you see it.

1214
00:54:09.659 --> 00:54:12.239
Evidence in front of you all the time.

1215
00:54:12.300 --> 00:54:15.960
They don't, I don't think once DS9 has to say, oh, what a family

1216
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:16.559
we are.

1217
00:54:16.619 --> 00:54:17.940
You know, we just see it every week.

1218
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.760
Yeah, it's kind of a shame, isn't it?

1219
00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:23.280
That is the actual proof of how good it could work.

1220
00:54:23.340 --> 00:54:24.960
Yeah, that's right.

1221
00:54:25.019 --> 00:54:26.099
That was a great moment.

1222
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:30.840
And there was that scene with her and with Kate and her, maybe it

1223
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:31.739
doesn't work.

1224
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:35.760
Like maybe Kate isn't properly persuaded by any sort of decent

1225
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:39.480
argument, but it's just well played by both of them.

1226
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:40.920
And I don't know.

1227
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:45.420
What I will say about Bulger the Dead is I know I have been mean

1228
00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:48.719
about Bulger in the past and talked about the 2 trilogies of

1229
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:51.539
terror in series 3 and series 5.

1230
00:54:51.780 --> 00:54:55.920
Here you have the trilogy of, oh, I need a positive word that

1231
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:58.019
begins with T. Help me out here.

1232
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:00.300
I don't know, tremendously.

1233
00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:03.719
Trilogy of triumph. there we go There we go, even better.

1234
00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:07.500
You get from more survival instinct, which is a really great 7 of

1235
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:08.099
9 episode.

1236
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:12.420
It's an episode all about where they crash land on a planet, her

1237
00:55:12.420 --> 00:55:16.199
and a few Borg, back when she was Borg, and they've all got their

1238
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:18.599
individuality back for a 2nd and none of them know how to deal

1239
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.719
with it. really focusses on that brilliantly.

1240
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:26.340
But as a subplot, Voyager visit is there's pleasure world, where

1241
00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:27.599
there's a sun in orbit.

1242
00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:29.159
So there's sunlight coming through the windows.

1243
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:30.480
I can remember it vividly.

1244
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:33.000
They're all getting to all sorts of hijinks.

1245
00:55:33.059 --> 00:55:34.320
It's a really brilliant episode.

1246
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:36.300
Then this, which works really, really well.

1247
00:55:36.300 --> 00:55:40.139
And then next you get Tinker Taylor Tenor Spy, which is a

1248
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:44.280
brilliant doctor episode, and it's a fantastic voyager comedy

1249
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:47.099
episode, and those are not words I put together very often.

1250
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:52.440
I remember watching series 6 as it came out and I watched those 3

1251
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:53.519
episodes in succession.

1252
00:55:53.579 --> 00:55:56.280
I even quite like Scorpion 2 at the time, I think, as well

1253
00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:00.119
thinking, my God, Voyager, it's on its own now.

1254
00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:03.659
DS9 has ended and they're really delivered, unfortunately, then

1255
00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:04.679
Alice comes after that.

1256
00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:10.500
And then the rest of season 6 goes jarringly between being superb

1257
00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:16.019
like Muse and Blink and Van Eye and Memorial and just agonisingly

1258
00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:16.500
terrible.

1259
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:24.840
Like, the one with the, the, the midgets that will sing opera, and

1260
00:56:24.840 --> 00:56:26.940
oh, God, I could go on.

1261
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:29.159
But just for this tiny little period.

1262
00:56:29.219 --> 00:56:32.039
It really felt as if Voyager was going to start delivering.

1263
00:56:32.099 --> 00:56:34.199
And I think Ron Moore's got something to do with that.

1264
00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:38.099
So I'm pleased we've covered this episode because it's a shining

1265
00:56:38.099 --> 00:56:39.000
beacon of light.

1266
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:40.079
Voyages rum.

1267
00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:41.219
Yeah.

1268
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:51.480
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1269
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.880
find out what we're doing next time.

1270
00:56:53.940 --> 00:56:59.639
It was my go last week, and so it's your turn now.

1271
00:56:59.699 --> 00:57:02.579
What series are we going to be choosing from?

1272
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:06.719
Well, I do have the opportunity here to talk about the fabulous

1273
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:12.000
new feature on untitled Star Trek project.com that you have added

1274
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.440
nothing to do with me, of course.

1275
00:57:13.500 --> 00:57:19.019
And that is, um, what we calling it, the coverage page where you

1276
00:57:19.019 --> 00:57:22.920
can see every single series of Star Trek, how many episodes we've

1277
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:27.119
covered of each in order, if you wish to select that, and the

1278
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:28.980
percentages that we've covered.

1279
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:34.860
And it is clear that some things are sorely underrepresented in

1280
00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:35.880
this podcast.

1281
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:37.679
I'm just very quickly, actually.

1282
00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:38.460
Do you mind?

1283
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:40.559
I'm very quickly gonna tell everybody.

1284
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:44.039
Strange New Worlds and short tricks, 20% covered.

1285
00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:47.940
Star Trek, prodigy, 15.79%.

1286
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:50.820
Star Trek movies, 15.38%.

1287
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:56.639
The original series, 15% animated series, 13.64%, discovery

1288
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:58.199
13.56%.

1289
00:57:58.260 --> 00:58:00.659
Picard 13.51%.

1290
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:04.860
Somehow, unbelievably, given how many we've done of them, in 90s

1291
00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:07.260
trek, coming at the bottom of the pole here.

1292
00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:15.480
DS9, 13.29, Voyager, 12.50, lower decks, 12.50, Enterprise, 10.31

1293
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:18.780
and next generation, 10.23.

1294
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:20.699
Now I was looking at this.

1295
00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:22.320
And I was like, how?

1296
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:24.000
It feels like we've done a lot of next gen.

1297
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:28.139
I think we've done 32 parters with next gen, which is obviously

1298
00:58:28.139 --> 00:58:31.860
more running time, but less episodes because they're counted as

1299
00:58:31.860 --> 00:58:32.039
well.

1300
00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:37.260
No, so this is the number of actual episodes of the show that

1301
00:58:37.260 --> 00:58:41.519
we've covered, not the number of episodes that we have recorded.

1302
00:58:41.579 --> 00:58:44.579
So when we do a two-part of that counts as two.

1303
00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:49.739
There are 176 episodes of Star Trek the Next Generation.

1304
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:51.420
We've done 18 of them.

1305
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:55.380
A few of them have been two partisan, so we've actually recorded

1306
00:58:55.380 --> 00:58:59.940
somewhat less, less, less, less.

1307
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:02.820
One possible direction we can go in then, and that is to choose

1308
00:59:02.820 --> 00:59:04.380
the lowest.

1309
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:06.059
Star Trek, the Next Generation.

1310
00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:08.519
We're going to watch one of those.

1311
00:59:08.579 --> 00:59:10.500
So are you ready for me to press one?

1312
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:11.039
I'm ready.

1313
00:59:11.099 --> 00:59:12.719
Oh, come on.

1314
00:59:14.820 --> 00:59:16.920
Use a code of honour.

1315
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:22.079
We're definitely going to do it.

1316
00:59:22.139 --> 00:59:24.179
You're a random Star Trek.

1317
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:29.340
The next generation episode is season five, episode five

1318
00:59:29.340 --> 00:59:31.139
disaster.

1319
00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:33.300
Oh, I love disaster.

1320
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:34.320
That's wonderful.

1321
00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:36.420
We've talked about that all the time.

1322
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:37.920
When we talk about disaster.

1323
00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:41.880
The game and what's the one where they all become kids?

1324
00:59:41.940 --> 00:59:43.739
Oh, rascals.

1325
00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:44.639
Rascals.

1326
00:59:44.699 --> 00:59:46.679
We always talk about.

1327
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:49.139
I mean, well, that's a foregone conclusion.

1328
00:59:49.260 --> 00:59:52.139
I'm putting my phone down right now.

1329
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:54.059
Okay, we're done. brilliant.

1330
00:59:54.119 --> 00:59:54.719
Disaster.

1331
00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:55.619
What an absolute fake.

1332
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.659
I think Ron Moore's got something to do with that episode.

1333
00:59:57.719 --> 00:59:59.639
Is that the one that's written by committee?

1334
00:59:59.699 --> 01:00:02.400
I swear there's about 16 names on that screen.

1335
01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:06.360
It's possible that each subplot is written by a different group of

1336
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:06.659
people.

1337
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:09.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1338
01:00:10.019 --> 01:00:11.639
Oh, wow. awesome.

1339
01:00:11.699 --> 01:00:12.119
Wow.

1340
01:00:12.179 --> 01:00:13.320
And we get to see.

1341
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:16.739
Paul Patrick Stewart stuck with those terrible kids that can't act

1342
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:18.719
in the turbo lift. for the whole episode.

1343
01:00:18.780 --> 01:00:19.980
Oh, it's wonderful.

1344
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:24.719
Oh, and Marina, sitting in the captain's chair, like she owns the

1345
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:27.300
place. giving birth to Keiko's baby.

1346
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:30.960
So good.

1347
01:00:40.260 --> 01:00:43.679
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1348
01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:44.880
and Nathan Bottomley.

1349
01:00:44.940 --> 01:00:48.480
We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find

1350
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:51.300
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1351
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:55.440
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1352
01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:57.119
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1353
01:00:57.179 --> 01:01:01.500
This episode was recorded on the 23rd of April 2024 and released

1354
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:02.579
on the 10th of May.

1355
01:01:02.699 --> 01:01:06.000
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the Next Generation.

1356
01:01:06.059 --> 01:01:07.320
Disaster.

1357
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:27.420
Oh, that's great choice.

1358
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:28.920
That's so good.

1359
01:01:28.980 --> 01:01:30.840
Thank you randomiser.

1360
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:33.539
Forgive me. a good next generation episode. fun.

1361
01:01:33.599 --> 01:01:35.400
That's so fun. was really great.

1362
01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:37.139
That was the 1st one.

1363
01:01:37.139 --> 01:01:38.039
Yeah.

1364
01:01:38.099 --> 01:01:38.579
Yeah.

1365
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:40.679
Sometimes sometimes it lands.

1366
01:01:40.739 --> 01:01:42.719
Let's just see what I would have got next.

1367
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:44.039
Yeah, yeah.

1368
01:01:44.099 --> 01:01:45.360
Oh, that's a good one again.

1369
01:01:45.420 --> 01:01:45.900
Relics.

1370
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:48.059
Yeah, relics is not bad.

1371
01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:50.219
Oh, yesterday's Enterprise.

1372
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:51.420
My God, what have you got this?

1373
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:51.960
Setter.

1374
01:01:52.019 --> 01:01:52.739
Good episodes.

1375
01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:54.719
Oh there you go.

1376
01:01:54.780 --> 01:01:56.519
That would have been fun anyway, though.

1377
01:01:56.579 --> 01:01:57.539
Night, night terrors.

1378
01:01:57.599 --> 01:01:58.260
Night terrors.

1379
01:01:58.320 --> 01:01:59.820
Who are you?

1380
01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:05.699
Do you remember the flights are entirety episode for the Doctor

1381
01:02:05.699 --> 01:02:07.260
Who night terrace episode?

1382
01:02:07.380 --> 01:02:08.940
The, um...

1383
01:02:08.940 --> 01:02:10.920
Wait a sec.

1384
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:12.000
I think I can find it.

1385
01:02:15.059 --> 01:02:17.159
Yeah, running a 2nd it's 20 past 11.

1386
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:18.840
Wait a sec.

1387
01:02:18.900 --> 01:02:20.039
Yeah.

1388
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:26.579
Uh, so this is Night Terrors, and I do the hello, dear listener

1389
01:02:26.579 --> 01:02:29.159
and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, blah, blah, blah, blah

1390
01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:29.340
blah.

1391
01:02:29.579 --> 01:02:33.420
Well, we've been trapped in this rift for nearly a month now, and

1392
01:02:33.420 --> 01:02:37.199
the crew of the USS Britain, have made no effort at all to lighten

1393
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:37.800
our mood.

1394
01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:41.400
As we descend into chaos and madness, it looks like only

1395
01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:45.539
Councillor Troy's one moon circling can save us from our night

1396
01:02:45.539 --> 01:02:46.260
terrace.

1397
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:49.139
Because she, her bum.

1398
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:52.440
Her massive, generous ass.

1399
01:02:52.500 --> 01:02:54.900
It's wonderful and so good.

1400
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:56.280
So good.

1401
01:02:56.340 --> 01:02:58.019
How did they shoot that?

1402
01:02:58.079 --> 01:03:00.599
They just shoot her from below.

1403
01:03:00.659 --> 01:03:01.380
I guess.

1404
01:03:01.500 --> 01:03:03.360
Jesus Christ.

1405
01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:05.159
I mean, when we do eventually do that one.

1406
01:03:05.219 --> 01:03:08.340
Believe next chance, it feels like we've done loads.

1407
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:10.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1408
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:14.159
So the ones that are under, like the ones that are under the, you

1409
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:21.360
know, the, uh, so next gen, Enterprise and lower decks and Voyager

1410
01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:27.840
are all under the 12.69%, which is the total.

1411
01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:33.179
So we've done 12.69% of Star Trek itself.

1412
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:39.480
Deep Space 9 comes in just above that at 13.29, 23 episodes

1413
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:41.219
Voyager with 21 episodes.

1414
01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:43.800
You realise that.

1415
01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:46.860
If there's 9 comes in at the highest and we've only done 23

1416
01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:50.400
episodes, we haven't actually covered a full season of some amount

1417
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.500
of episodes of any one of those series.

1418
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:55.380
No, because that's 14% or something, isn't it?

1419
01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:58.559
It's got 6 seasons of each of them to go.

1420
01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:00.480
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

1421
01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:04.380
We'll be doing this...

1422
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.960
Yeah, I'm already there half the time.

1423
01:04:07.019 --> 01:04:08.940
Oh, the hell.

1424
01:04:08.940 --> 01:04:10.980
All right.

1425
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:12.300
Well, I enjoyed that one.

1426
01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:13.380
Yeah, that was fun.

1427
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:14.039
That's a good one