WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:31:23

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are doing what I think is perhaps the worst episode of

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Voyagers run.

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But it's a, well, it's pretty close to that.

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It's called Cause Oblivion.

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Which sounds great, right?

7
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Sounds wonderful.

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Yeah, it's the same course that we're all eventually on, I think.

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But it's season five, episode 18.

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It's sort of a loose sequel to Demon the previous year, and it is

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by the co-creator of Star Trek Discovery, Brian Fuller.

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An auspicious beginning.

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Yeah, he's learned his lesson since then, I think.

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And I really, really properly hate this.

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What do you think I hate is a strong word.

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No, no, I mean, accurate.

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Yeah, 0 yeah.

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I've been saying too, haven't I?

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I'm sorry, apathetic about this.

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I just have no feeling about it whatsoever.

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I watched the entire 45 minutes and then wondered why I had.

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That's how I left the episode going.

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Well, what was that all about?

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What impact does that have on anything?

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And I know Voyager never has any impact on anything ever.

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And there are no consequences in this show, but this is taking

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that to an extreme.

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Yeah, and like, I guess partly I'm embarrassed for the actors.

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Bless them.

30
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Because of the makeup and the scenes at the very end, and

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particularly Kate's makeup, which is really bad, but also Garrett

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and Jerry have to suffer some pretty horrific makeup as well.

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I think that's awful.

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I was confused because there were scenes where Kate Mulgrew was

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attempting to do a moat with, you know, great alacrity.

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Unfortunately, they've glued her mouth shut with this makeup.

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That's crazy. started talking out the side of her mouth, so I

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could not barely understand what she was trying to say.

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And they don't do it to any of the other actors.

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They have quite a different makeup job on.

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It's super embarrassing.

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It's Janeway's eye.

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It looks so awful.

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And so that's embarrassing.

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Like, I just think that's a career low.

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You know, like you have to think, she's saying, why the fuck am I

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even doing this job at this point?

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And so that's embarrassing.

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I think you did talk about this. one of those fabulous convention

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interviews, you know, where she is remarkably candid.

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Now, now the adventure's over and she can be honest and say things

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like if Brennan Bragger had more balls, we would have done

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something more interesting on Voyager and stuff like that.

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And she did say there was one where she had all this makeup

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slapped on.

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And it's her usual line of like, you know, they were testing my

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acting ability to its absolute fullest.

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I think this is one of the few times where she can't do it.

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No, yeah.

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No, it's dreadful. absolutely dreadful.

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But the other thing is, too, like, from one point of view, these

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characters aren't real and they're not the characters that we see

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on TV every week.

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Now, I don't find that view particularly persuasive because

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they're all played by the same actors and they do their shtick.

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In fact, the very 1st scene is absolutely dedicated to showing us

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that these people are the characters that we know.

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And so what we have is an episode where all of them catch a

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horrible disease and then slowly fail and die.

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And I kind of think, well, that wasn't fun.

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So what was the point of that?

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Like, I just don't want to watch that.

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That's literally no fun at all.

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That's absolutely fucking miserable.

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And I just sort of think, how am I to be entertained by this?

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But you remember as I was watching this last night?

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I'm sending you a series of questions about this going, well, all

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these people would duplicate it on the demon planet and none of

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them know how they're suddenly this much closer to Earth than the

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other boy, all of these questions about the premiere.

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I wasn't even watching the episode.

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I was just going, how?

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Why?

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What?

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Yeah.

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So Demon is not a highly regarded episode, but I did watch it as

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kind of research and I didn't think it was terrible.

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I thought it was was quite stupid, but the idea was very star

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trekky. looks more interesting than this one.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And what happens at the end is like super weird.

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So it's this sort of, um, they call it the silver blood in both

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episodes and it's, it's like mercury.

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It's a liquid.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, that exists in a sort of armour style pool on this

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planet.

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No, I've been great.

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A great silver armus coming out.

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Yeah, that's right.

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So what happens is for the 1st time they encounter sentient life

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forms and because they can duplicate life forms, they become

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sentient and start to experience sentience and they experience

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what the world is like around them, that their planet is

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beautiful.

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They experience all of these things, and just weirdly and

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generously, and in a way that doesn't make a great deal of sense

108
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but whatever.

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Everyone on the crew decides to allow the silver blood to

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replicate them.

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It's the last shot they're all on the planet.

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It's they're all standing on the planet surface.

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Why did you go to leave?

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So how did we get from there to here?

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So we don't.

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And that's so that's a cheat because because the duplicate Harry

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and the duplicate Tom in that episode are definitely not Harry and

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Tom and don't think they're Harry and Tom.

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They have their memories, but they do know that they're from the

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planet and they know that they're the silver blast.

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And they're sort of suggested in the middle of demon, they're sort

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of like evil doppelgangers.

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I know they're not, but they're sort of...

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like that's a sort of very Star Trek idea and it is very weird and

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it's not completely pulled off and it's a bit crap and like

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whatever.

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The sort of B movie fun.

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Yeah, we like that stuff.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it's Star Treky fun because it is, you know, like there's

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something symbolic about them, you know, allowing this new life

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form to be created, encountering a life form, they've

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inadvertently created, and giving it, um, giving it of themselves

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so that they can experience one another's lives and stuff.

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And they're not, they're creating duplicates that sort of look

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like them.

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But what they're really giving them is the ability to think and

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feel and so on.

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And that's not what we have here in Dima.

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What we have is instead, somehow the silver blood is created an

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entire ship, that they've forgotten that they're duplicates

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somehow, and they're heading off into space.

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And like, I think there's potential, potentially an interesting

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idea there.

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The ship is made from the silver blood.

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And so it does say...

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No, in this episode.

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And so, so when I say it's a loose sequel to demon, it's

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completely inconsistent with anything that we see in demon.

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Because it's got to make just drive it.

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It was only last year, for God's sake.

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Yeah, I know.

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So, in fact, it depends on what this episode is for.

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And I think there's a sense in which there's a mystery here.

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And I was trying to think as I watched it, given that you, watching

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it now, we know what the premise is, right?

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And we've seen it before.

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We know what the reveal is.

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But at what point does a naive viewer make the decision that this

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isn't the crew?

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And is that a thing?

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Is part of what the episode's doing is getting you to work out

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what's happening here, in which case they cheat, in which case

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it's not a fair play mystery, because they change the premise of

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demon.

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You could never have guessed it was demon because it's nothing

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like what was... know the exact point.

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I know the point.

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It's that close-up on that dismal carpet that you've got behind

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you right there.

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Because our Captain Janeway would never fail to hoover her

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carpet.

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No, that's true.

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Oh, that's so terrible sure.

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It's so awful.

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The carpet.

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Thank God we don't have carpet anymore.

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I just want to sneeze just even looking at it.

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Like it's full of mites and just...

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The drama of the slow motion rights.

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Oh my god.

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So I think that I think what's happening here is that they're sort

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of gesturing towards talking about identity and there's a kind of

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sense in which this is going for sort of existentialism.

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I know that sounds fancy for something that is so shit.

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The gesture is so minimal.

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They've got nothing to say about any of that.

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And all they do is they use those ideas to create an episode

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that's just deeply unpleasant and not fun to watch.

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I would have had more fun with this if the crew were gone.

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What the hell?

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We're not Janeway and her crew and just behaved appallingly

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because they all knew they was going to die, you know?

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I mean, it would be miserable to watch again, but it's better than

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just watching them sit around, slowly having more latax slapped on

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their faces and just slowly dying.

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There's no B movie. that the script of that wasn't binned straight

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away.

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Do you know, there was a premise mooted about this, though, which

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I think would have been just awful if they'd have gone for it. far

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more watchable than this.

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And that is that the demon replicants end up.

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They get home.

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They get back to earth and then they start melting.

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So we got this great celebration, celebration, we've made it home

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fireworks and all of this and that boring Admiral Paris is there

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and everybody, you know, we love Bridge Barclays waving the flag.

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And then, yeah, and then we slowly realise in the true dramatic

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sense of irony that, unfortunately, this is not the Voyager crew

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and it's a load of duty because that's awful.

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I mean, it is awful, but imagine how fun that would be to watch

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compared to this.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But given that we never properly get to see them come home either

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you know, that would be a bit tragic too.

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We just get to see a crap version of it.

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Well, look, I mean, I've got plenty to say, but maybe it's best to

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say it while we're watching this wretched thing.

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What do think?

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Oh, I'll just throw in one quote then before we go.

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Oh, okay.

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It's from Kenneth Miller.

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Um, you know, writer of many great Voyager triumph.

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There was a discussion about whether it was too bleak at the end.

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I had written a version where they actually get that time capsule

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out and the real Voyager does come along.

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The duplicate ship is gone, but they find the capsule.

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So, because my biggest complaint about this is at the end, where

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Voyager comes along and goes, well, what's that debris over

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there?

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Oh, well, guess whatever, no. resume course, Mr. Jakotay.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And you're like, okay, so this is having no emotional impact on

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anybody whatsoever.

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But actually, I mean, I don't know how you'd play that.

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I don't know how that last scene would go.

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It was like, oh, it appears it was us.

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You know?

241
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But at least they could be held accountable for the decision that

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they made, you know, in demon or something, just something.

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Yeah, but even that, I mean, they make a good decision in Demon, a

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weirdly generous and sort of improbable decision, which I thought

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was kind of weird and fun and Star Trek-y.

246
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Um, so they haven't done anything wrong.

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It could have been like, well, you know, we never knew that they

248
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would have created their own Voyager and gone off and all died in

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this horrible way.

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Yeah, that's stupid.

251
00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:12.419
Well, it's all stupid.

252
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:13.919
Yeah, yeah.

253
00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.440
I mean, the episode's called course oblivion, right?

254
00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:23.279
And so having a memorial where they're not forgotten really sells

255
00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:25.200
short the actual title.

256
00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:27.120
So they have to be forgotten.

257
00:12:27.179 --> 00:12:32.039
Well, see, they've already done it this year in timeless where you

258
00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:35.279
had that alternative voyage and it crashed into the ice and then

259
00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:38.460
at the end, everything resets snowball, but of course it does

260
00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:41.039
because the older Harry manages to get the message out.

261
00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:44.220
Don't go to the ice planet, you're going to crash onto it.

262
00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:48.539
And then he sends the message, which the younger Harry listens to

263
00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:51.960
in the last scene and there's some emotional resonance to the

264
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:52.259
whole thing.

265
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:54.059
They could have done that here.

266
00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:55.379
They chose not to.

267
00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:56.159
Yeah.

268
00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:58.559
No, because that's not what the episode is saying.

269
00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:01.980
But what the episode is saying is quite ugly, I think.

270
00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:04.259
And what was he trying to say?

271
00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:08.879
If you're all going to die, just accept it and die horribly.

272
00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:12.720
No, I don't I don't think that's it, but I do think that there's

273
00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:16.259
something to be said for the idea that course oblivion is, in fact

274
00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:20.159
the course that we all find ourselves on all the time right now.

275
00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:21.360
Oh.

276
00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:22.080
Yeah.

277
00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:23.639
Startling revelation.

278
00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:26.460
No, it's not a startling revelation and they don't have anything

279
00:13:26.460 --> 00:13:30.120
interesting to say about it. printing out 20 years ago. realise

280
00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:30.480
this.

281
00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:31.679
We all were.

282
00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:34.259
I refuse to believe it review.

283
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:34.679
I sorry.

284
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:36.960
All right.

285
00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:38.279
I think we're going in.

286
00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:42.419
Randy, in the history of Star Trek, has the title of an episode

287
00:13:42.419 --> 00:13:45.659
promised so much and delivered so little.

288
00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.720
Yeah, well, coarse oblivion.

289
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:50.279
Sounds great, doesn't it?

290
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.399
All right, I'll count it in.

291
00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:54.659
If you have to.

292
00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:03.419
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

293
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:10.679
Oh, wedding. d, d, d, d, d, d, d.

294
00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:13.379
Now, look, you're going to be treated, Nathan, to your favourite

295
00:14:13.379 --> 00:14:14.639
thing on Voyager.

296
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.240
The banter is Garrett Wang playing the...

297
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.000
Garrett Wang playing the clarinet.

298
00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:22.980
You love the sort of witty line.

299
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:24.179
The character beats.

300
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:25.200
Voyager.

301
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:27.659
Absolutely do.

302
00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:30.539
Look, we've started off with Neelix.

303
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.960
Are you sure this isn't supposed to be cooked about the rice are

304
00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:34.379
they thrown?

305
00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:35.580
That's kind of funny.

306
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:39.480
And I think that, you know, like, here's the good Robert giving

307
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:44.820
you know, making a pretty crappy line land and we are getting, like

308
00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:48.419
this scene is all about them being themselves, isn't it?

309
00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.940
So is he a hologram, the doctor?

310
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:52.200
Yes, yeah.

311
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:55.740
So they've managed to create the ship which has managed to create

312
00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:56.700
holograms.

313
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:57.720
Yeah, yeah.

314
00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:00.179
I kind of think he emulates the technology.

315
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.700
Yeah, and he's a meta fails.

316
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:03.960
And, like, that's Star Trek.

317
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:05.039
It's stupid. fine.

318
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:08.159
I think that would be okay if this kind of worked.

319
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.600
You know, what's sad is this is actually better than the actual

320
00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.600
wedding of Tom Banana Torres.

321
00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:17.220
I don't see the wedding.

322
00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:17.940
Do we?

323
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.759
I kind of like it they go off in that car, don't I?

324
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:21.840
And drive.

325
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:24.659
Yeah, they go off in the Delta Flyer at the end, we've just

326
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:28.500
married on the, on the, on the back, at the, at the, um, end of

327
00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:29.639
drive.

328
00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:34.139
Um, and I like that, and I think it's because we've seen this.

329
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:40.200
I really like how they react to 7 catching the bouquet.

330
00:15:40.259 --> 00:15:41.580
I think that's really funny.

331
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.059
Like she catches it and says, what does it mean?

332
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.779
And I think the doctor says, oh, I'm just not going to tell you

333
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:50.700
you know, that's going to upset you.

334
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.340
No, but this is about the pain sticks.

335
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.879
Yeah, they're saving the pain sticks for the honeymoon, says

336
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.899
Garrett Wang.

337
00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.179
Oh, yuck.

338
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:00.899
Einstein.

339
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.139
It's a joke, and don't deliver it like a joke.

340
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.059
No, it's terrible.

341
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.340
I think it's really terrible.

342
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.639
I did message you throughout this episode and say Garawag is a

343
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:12.299
terrible actor.

344
00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:13.200
Oh yeah.

345
00:16:13.259 --> 00:16:15.720
But you heard that. dramatically.

346
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:17.940
The thing that you... are shockingly bad.

347
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.539
But the thing said just there, which are the worst words that you

348
00:16:21.539 --> 00:16:24.539
can hear at a wedding, which is the couple have prepared their own

349
00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:26.940
vows, like...

350
00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:29.039
You recently went to a wedding.

351
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.059
Was that the cakes?

352
00:16:30.299 --> 00:16:35.039
No, not really, no, I didn't have him, those vowels were fine.

353
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:37.139
But, 0 my god.

354
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.399
Oh, God.

355
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.179
Oh, the ring.

356
00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.220
Oh, Harry goes, oh, the ring.

357
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.620
Oh, crappy sitcom nonsense.

358
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.059
Awful.

359
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:51.659
But so they're not getting married and so does this tell us that

360
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:54.000
this is not the real ship already?

361
00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:56.399
The fact that we open with them getting married.

362
00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:58.980
They're in a relationship, aren't they?

363
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.000
And they have been since the beginning of series four.

364
00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:06.779
But at this point, there should be a key indicator that these are

365
00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:09.599
not the real Voyager crew that they're actually making genuine

366
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:10.980
character development here for these people.

367
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

368
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:13.380
That's right.

369
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.680
But to be fair, the Voyager, they do actually go through with it

370
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.240
at the beginning of series 7.

371
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:21.119
At the end, when basically they really don't have to deal with the

372
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.539
consequences too much, as usual, on 90s straight.

373
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.079
We just get a year. going on with B'lana's wig.

374
00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:32.579
Is that the other way that we know that it's not...

375
00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:34.079
Our crew.

376
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.680
Bilana's doing something different with her hair on this floor.

377
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:41.519
No, the way we know that it's not the Voyager crew is that even

378
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:43.740
Kate Mulgrew can't salvage the episode.

379
00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:46.920
So clearly that's not our Kate Malpru there.

380
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.779
But there is something about this version of the captain where

381
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:57.000
like, you know, um, Kirk marries someone, doesn't he?

382
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.700
Uh, like, we've seen captains marry people before.

383
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.660
But there's something about this, you know, where they're creating

384
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:10.259
this family because they're stranded and staff.

385
00:18:10.259 --> 00:18:14.220
Yeah, this, I just, I think the dialogue here is actually pretty

386
00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:14.519
funny.

387
00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:17.519
I do like this, but I don't like that. 7 catches it.

388
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.380
What?

389
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.220
No, no, I like I like the jokes around K 7 catching the bouquet

390
00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:25.319
because her being fish out of water is always fun.

391
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.819
I don't like the slow-mo in a second, which...

392
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.299
And it's Tim Ross who says you may not want to know, which I think

393
00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:34.200
is just awesome.

394
00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:36.539
Okay, now this is dreadful.

395
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:42.059
I wish for like slow motion should be used very judiciously. and

396
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:44.400
this, what's it...

397
00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:47.579
It just reminds me that this is all very artificial, that suddenly

398
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:50.819
we're watching these vowels and this sequence in slow-mo.

399
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.700
It's really trying to point out something, isn't it?

400
00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:56.160
But what is it that they're doomed?

401
00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:58.619
That they're doomed.

402
00:18:58.740 --> 00:18:59.819
This is a real...

403
00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:00.900
I don't know.

404
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:01.799
It's much entirely clear.

405
00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:04.019
There's slow motion and timeless as well.

406
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.000
The beginning, there's a huge celebration.

407
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:10.319
We've got this fabulous new warp core that can take us all these

408
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:12.059
miles across space.

409
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.940
And that's like a moment of triumph. absolutely telling you why

410
00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:17.220
it's in slow mode, whereas here it's unsettling.

411
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.299
So that's what it's doing.

412
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:19.440
It's being unsettling.

413
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:19.920
I think.

414
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:23.279
And then, of course, we get the scene where it goes down into the

415
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.980
Jeffreys tube, the rice they're throwing goes through the floor.

416
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:29.339
And we do lots of wibbly wobbly stuff. stuff.

417
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:33.720
The Demon Planet has done a perfect job of recapturing the Voyager

418
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:35.880
title sequence here as well, for this Voyager.

419
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:36.299
Yeah.

420
00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:37.140
Yeah.

421
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.339
Beat for beat.

422
00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:44.519
So, in a sense, these are the Voyager characters, aren't they?

423
00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:46.680
They believe themselves to be.

424
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:50.880
Oh, now I know what you're talking about, but these are your

425
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:52.440
voyages. analogy.

426
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:58.380
Yeah, they have they have the memory of the Voyager characters

427
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:01.200
until 10 months ago.

428
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.539
In what sense is it not there?

429
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.000
Like in one sense, are they not real?

430
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:09.000
Because they're not the characters I've been following all this

431
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:09.299
time.

432
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.099
Well, they are versions of you.

433
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:12.539
You saw it.

434
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.579
They did all their usual shtick at the wedding.

435
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:20.039
They even say in the episode, you didn't exist more than a year

436
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:20.339
ago.

437
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.140
But that's not true.

438
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.640
Do you know what I mean?

439
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.140
In a sense, that's not true.

440
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.480
And it doesn't matter what they are.

441
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:29.700
And this is a thing, right?

442
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:38.940
that that we have undergone that same sort of, like as people, you

443
00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:41.099
know, where we thought we were the centre of the universe.

444
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.319
We thought that we were specially created by God.

445
00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:48.119
We thought that we were designed and that our lives had a

446
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:50.039
particular purpose and all of that sort of stuff.

447
00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:55.740
And existentialism is, no, none of that's actually real, and you

448
00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:56.880
have to find your purpose.

449
00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:59.700
There's none that sort of imposed on you from the outside.

450
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.799
And we are different from what we thought we were.

451
00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:03.779
That's not true, people.

452
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:05.099
We're doing it right.

453
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:06.059
We found our purpose.

454
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:09.240
To mock Star Trek relentlessly.

455
00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:10.440
Exactly.

456
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:14.460
So, so, so something has changed.

457
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.079
They discover something about themselves.

458
00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:22.079
They don't, they aren't who they think they are, right, but they

459
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.880
are still in a sense those people.

460
00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:27.299
And so one of the objections that I have to this episode is that

461
00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:30.900
it's just watching our regular crew members all die of the plague

462
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:34.259
and then the ship exploding and that's not fun to watch.

463
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:38.640
And it, and they're even more our regular crew than the premise of

464
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.900
the show because it is just, uh, the medium Robert and Kate

465
00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:45.839
playing these characters, which is exactly what they do every

466
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.140
week.

467
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.140
This is a real difference between you and me, isn't it?

468
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:53.039
Because these hologram enterprise characters and these weird demon

469
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.940
planet Voyager crew, I just have no interest in them at all.

470
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.819
Yeah, but, you know, they are our characters.

471
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:01.259
Not to me they're not.

472
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.119
They are to you, but they're not to me.

473
00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.779
They are just inferior duplicates covered in latex.

474
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:10.259
No, you see, the inferior duplicates every week.

475
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:14.400
They're just Kate and Jason and the worst Robert.

476
00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:16.619
Did you see who directed this episode?

477
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:22.799
So this is Anderson Williams. who was Potsey in Happy Days.

478
00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:24.119
Obviously.

479
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.680
That's a great bit of trivia.

480
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:28.680
It's like, and he was great in happy days.

481
00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:29.339
He was really good.

482
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.819
And he does, it's only a paper movie.

483
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.099
He does brilliantly, may I say?

484
00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:37.079
And statistical probabilities.

485
00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:39.000
He directed demon?

486
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:39.839
Okay.

487
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.099
He actually directed Demon.

488
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.819
He did real life, which is a much better episode than I think

489
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:46.319
people give it credit for.

490
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:49.200
The gift.

491
00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:51.240
Oh, it's great, yeah.

492
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.019
Yeah.

493
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.220
I think that's all of them.

494
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.140
He doesn't do a huge number of them, but he does.

495
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.319
The gift is how you genuinely do Voyager character drama.

496
00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:58.920
You know?

497
00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:02.039
One, you just focus on the women because they're the best in

498
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:02.700
Voyager.

499
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:03.000
Yes.

500
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.700
Two, you know, it's about the real crew.

501
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.299
Sorry.

502
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.859
And three, it has actual fucking consequences.

503
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.599
Kez leaves and 7 joins.

504
00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:13.380
Yeah.

505
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:17.819
So so here, I think, what's super interesting.

506
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:21.660
And I like this is that they've developed a way to get home and

507
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:22.799
they expect to get home in 2 years.

508
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:25.619
And I think at this point we know that it's not them.

509
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:27.480
There's enough to adding up.

510
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:32.220
That could have been the payoff for this, is that they managed to

511
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:36.720
send the information to the other ship and then they've got a way

512
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:37.799
of getting home in 2 years.

513
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:38.940
What have we got?

514
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:40.319
Series 5, series 7.

515
00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:40.859
There you go.

516
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:46.440
Yeah, yeah, but I I think that kind of wrecks the show a bit in a

517
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:46.680
way.

518
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:48.539
It would be something.

519
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.440
Yeah, but that's what series breaking about it, isn't it?

520
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.579
That's how you know it's not real.

521
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:57.539
It is, firstly, the wedding because we never do those sorts of

522
00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:00.900
changes of the status quo on Voyager, and we certainly don't do

523
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:04.019
them so thoroughgoingly just in the teaser.

524
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:06.420
You know, you would never just deal with their wedding in the

525
00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:08.099
teaser and when it happens.

526
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.859
Yeah, for Dax's wedding's right at the end and it's a big affair

527
00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:11.160
you know?

528
00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:12.839
Yeah, yeah.

529
00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:16.319
And then here they're about to get home.

530
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:21.299
And like I, I like this idea.

531
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:25.920
And what works for me, I think, is that's the reason that they're

532
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.299
coming apart because they think they're human and they think their

533
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:31.200
ship is real.

534
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:37.500
They have run the modelling and their enhanced warp drive won't

535
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:38.279
harm the ship.

536
00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:43.799
But it will harm whatever this is, and that's why they die.

537
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:47.519
You know what's very old is when, you know, obviously, because of

538
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.039
this, things start melting a bit.

539
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:50.400
Yeah.

540
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.059
It takes ages for people to melt and the food starts melting and

541
00:24:54.059 --> 00:24:57.839
all sorts starts melting and then Bilardatorius only starts

542
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.380
melting.

543
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:00.839
And it's like, oh, well what's wrong with her?

544
00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:01.980
We're going to do all these tests.

545
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:05.819
And no one makes the link, you know, that the whole thing is

546
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:09.480
basically, you know, one of those, what do you call them, those

547
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:13.500
real-time Jesus Christ, you know, when you watch flowers wilting?

548
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:14.579
It's basically that happening.

549
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

550
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:17.700
In real time.

551
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:19.140
Like, yeah.

552
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:23.640
Yeah, so, like, she's spotting it now.

553
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:28.440
And it, and so in a sense, they're doing a better job of a voyage

554
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:32.039
a better job being the Voyager crew than the normal crew.

555
00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:32.759
Oh, damning.

556
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:34.079
Are they?

557
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:38.460
Like, Tom and Belana have married, managed to get married.

558
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.880
They seem to have solved the strategy in the Delta Quadrant

559
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:42.180
problem.

560
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:43.319
You know what, right?

561
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:44.940
Lana's doing something different with her hair.

562
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.740
When the shit hits the fan with the normal Voyager crew, yeah. and

563
00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:52.920
it's they're on the verge of dying, you've got Janeway on the

564
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.859
bridge like in year of hell, going, going to hell, I'm crushing

565
00:25:55.859 --> 00:26:00.660
the ship, or in the fabulous deadlock, where she goes, gentlemen

566
00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:02.940
welcome to the bridge and then blows up the ship.

567
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:04.019
It is.

568
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.779
She just sits down in her chair, melts and dies, you know?

569
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:07.980
Yeah, it's so.

570
00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:10.500
They don't do everything there. than the normal voyager.

571
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.500
No, but at this point they are doing a better job of being the

572
00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:13.980
crew.

573
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:19.440
And so, but then this sort of horrible thing happens and they all

574
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:20.640
discover they're going to die.

575
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.880
And spoiler alert, we are all going to die.

576
00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:25.740
That's a thing that's going to happen.

577
00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:29.039
And there's no escaping that.

578
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.259
And eventually people die enough forgotten.

579
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:33.000
Sorry, everyone, all right?

580
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:33.900
Yeah, yeah.

581
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:39.119
You guys, you'll be fine. as much as you can, all right?

582
00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:40.200
Yeah, yeah.

583
00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:45.180
So, so, I mean, that's the thing that this is saying, but why is

584
00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:45.960
that fun to watch?

585
00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:47.339
I'm trying to forget about that.

586
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:48.900
You know, like...

587
00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:53.160
Oh, you obviously, you can't tell stories about dying.

588
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:57.720
But not it's such a boring and bleak way as this.

589
00:26:57.779 --> 00:26:59.519
Yeah, well, that's it.

590
00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:02.940
And then everybody died and no one remembered who they were and

591
00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:04.559
it's as if they'd never existed.

592
00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:09.599
And you just sort of think, well, maybe it would be better to talk

593
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:12.420
about how you can create meaning for yourself.

594
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.900
The meaning doesn't have to be absolute.

595
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.799
It is a thing that people create for themselves.

596
00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:25.079
And so you can have an effect on the world, even though you're

597
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:26.460
going to die and be.

598
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:26.819
Exactly.

599
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.039
So why when they discovered they're all going to die?

600
00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:32.160
Do they all just sort of stop and go, oh, well, we're all going to

601
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:32.400
die.

602
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:35.880
Instead of just doing something meaningful with the time they've

603
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:36.240
got left.

604
00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:41.279
In fact, Janeway is the one who sort of says, why don't we go home

605
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:44.460
to earth because who knows?

606
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:45.539
Do you know what I mean?

607
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.000
Like maybe we're what's left of the Voyager cruise.

608
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:50.640
You know, bleeding into the scripts here.

609
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:51.359
Yeah, yeah.

610
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:53.160
And that's not a dumb idea.

611
00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:57.420
Like her idea of saying, well, you know, because I'm different

612
00:27:57.420 --> 00:28:03.480
from what I thought I was, my values and goals and ideals are

613
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:04.380
stupid.

614
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:06.480
Like why is that an automatic decision?

615
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:09.660
Well, then someone, does somebody say then, oh, no, because if we

616
00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:12.359
go back to Earth, they'll lock us up as inferior copies.

617
00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:14.460
But actually, maybe that won't happen.

618
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:18.359
The only place it would be awkward is after endgame when the other

619
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.359
crew comes home and there's 2 of everybody hanging around.

620
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:24.660
Yeah, although that might make a good telly movie afterwards with

621
00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:26.099
all these duplicants of everybody.

622
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:33.119
Yeah, so here at this point, we know that they're all doomed to

623
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:33.480
die.

624
00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:36.839
Well, we knew that when it was called course oblivion.

625
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:40.500
I just think everyone would have more of a reaction to the fact

626
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:43.740
that they're not who they thought they were, and there would be

627
00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:46.079
more pushback against that, you know?

628
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:48.539
Is there everyone just going about their daily routines?

629
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:49.920
Yeah.

630
00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:54.599
But in a way, as I said, they are who they thought they were.

631
00:28:54.660 --> 00:28:59.579
Because what makes you you?

632
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:00.180
you know what I mean?

633
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:01.319
Like what makes...

634
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:01.920
At this point.

635
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.160
Okay, even if we accept that, they are who they say they were.

636
00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:08.640
Now they're not living the lives that they otherwise would have

637
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.279
which their other career, because they're not melting.

638
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:14.519
So at this point, this is where the divergence happens and we can

639
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:15.900
actually well fuck this shit.

640
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.859
I'm not going to be an ensign on Voyager standing here with my pad

641
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:21.720
repeating what the computer's saying.

642
00:29:21.779 --> 00:29:24.240
I'm actually going to go and have a bit of fun in the 10 hours

643
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:25.319
I've got left to live.

644
00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:26.640
But we don't get any of that.

645
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:30.119
Just Tom Paris. being a bit grumpy asshole.

646
00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:31.559
Why should we listen to the captain?

647
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:33.420
Yeah, yeah.

648
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:36.480
And that's like, that's not pleasant to watch either because he

649
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.039
just comes across as an arsehole.

650
00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:41.279
It's like, yeah, sure, dude, your wife died, but like you just

651
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:42.779
have to be horrible to everyone now.

652
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:46.380
Like people who deal with loss in a gracious way.

653
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.220
We admire those people and people who are just pricks about it.

654
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:52.200
You're going to be following her shortly.

655
00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.119
So you may as well enjoy the time you got left.

656
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:55.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

657
00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:58.859
Oh, this is so, this is so funny because not only do you get

658
00:29:58.859 --> 00:30:02.039
another example of this sort of, you know, a lot of talk to me

659
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:03.539
sort of acting that he does.

660
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.960
He sort of goes, he can't even say no, Kenny.

661
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:10.680
He goes, no, it's so bad.

662
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:17.400
I was so very aware of the ill camera shot because Roxanne Dawson

663
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.279
is very visibly breathing throughout the entire scene.

664
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:23.579
Maybe I want to move the camera.

665
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:29.160
Right, okay, because now you're giving this job to the worst

666
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:29.640
Robert.

667
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:35.640
Um, and so he has to do grief at the loss of his wife, and you

668
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.539
just sort of think if it had been the other way round, and we're

669
00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:42.240
not fridging her because she's a woman and what matters is how a

670
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:43.259
man feels about.

671
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:44.279
Do you know what I mean?

672
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:48.180
If he had died and she'd felt sad about that, that would have been

673
00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:51.480
a lot better because he's just, she's just a vastly better actor

674
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:52.079
than he is.

675
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.519
Even if it's just been Robert, the doctor, what's his name?

676
00:30:56.579 --> 00:30:58.500
Robert Picardo.

677
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:00.299
Yeah, he's the doctor, so he should be here.

678
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:02.460
Can't he just act this thing out with her?

679
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:03.720
No one else can come in.

680
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:04.680
She's infectious.

681
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:05.579
Let me do the acting.

682
00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:08.160
Yeah, that's right.

683
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:10.799
So this is just miserable to watch.

684
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.400
And it's the same complaint that I made about threshold.

685
00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:18.660
Like threshold is stupid, but that doesn't rule it out.

686
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:21.660
What rules are now is it's just fucking unpleasant.

687
00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:24.660
Like it's just... the ending with the babies and we love that.

688
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:25.680
Yeah that's awesome.

689
00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:29.819
But the, like, this makeup, I've got to say, is already

690
00:31:29.819 --> 00:31:32.220
intolerably ugly, this makeup.

691
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.319
And we haven't even started yet.

692
00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:35.579
No.

693
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:41.099
Like laws coming out of their noses, but...

694
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:42.779
It's so bad.

695
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:46.200
I'd love to have, had a chat with the actors, done a, no, no

696
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.660
Starburst interview with them on set when they were doing no

697
00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:49.079
sleep.

698
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:51.359
Oh, and Kate.

699
00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:53.880
Like, Jesus Christ, I'm so embarrassed, okay?

700
00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:59.099
Visually, the worst is Jerry Ryan, the most beautiful woman on

701
00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:01.380
this planet. who they can make.

702
00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:02.460
Look, absolutely.

703
00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:06.119
Gary Wang is a very beautiful man and he looks awful.

704
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:08.039
He just looks hideous.

705
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.700
But the makeup they put on Jerry Ryan. that sort of off green.

706
00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:13.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

707
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.819
Garrett's got that as well.

708
00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:16.740
And it's super shiny and stuff.

709
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.359
It's like deeply unpleasant.

710
00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:20.579
I mean, it's supposed to be, right?

711
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:26.039
But like, who thought that was a good idea?

712
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:27.779
Who's doing this to these?

713
00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:29.700
I thought that would be an enjoyable watch.

714
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:31.319
Yeah, that's right.

715
00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:32.279
That's right.

716
00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:33.420
So she's dead.

717
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:35.099
Naked eye.

718
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:39.839
I believe this is an appropriate moment to say to you that I did

719
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:44.759
in fact, go looking for viewer reviews of course oblivion.

720
00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:47.880
And actually the consensus, because there's a couple of YouTube

721
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:52.680
reviews of this episode, both highly positive about what a tragedy

722
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.539
and drama this episode is.

723
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:58.140
But in the comments, people go, oh, one of my favourites, you know

724
00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:02.519
brings me to tears every time. stunning makeup.

725
00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:03.599
That's what I was reading.

726
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:07.140
No, it's so ugly and so unpleasant.

727
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.839
And all of these horrible things happen to people for kind of no

728
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:10.259
reason.

729
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.660
And I think I was saying this to you before.

730
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.480
All you need is a fucking typewriter to create this.

731
00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:17.460
Like, there's nothing ironic.

732
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:18.720
They don't bring it on themselves.

733
00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:19.980
Do you know what I mean?

734
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:21.960
Like there's no last minute thing.

735
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:24.240
They all just catch a plague and then die.

736
00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:27.900
And you can think, well, like, that's not tragedy in any sort of

737
00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.000
sense that Aristotle would understand.

738
00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:34.079
It's just a bunch of fucking ugly things happen to happening to

739
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:37.559
people that we kind of like that we're tuning in to watch every

740
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:37.920
week.

741
00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:38.759
It's miserable.

742
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.359
Did you see those clamps going up over Belada then?

743
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:44.880
The director finally realised you could see her breathing.

744
00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:46.500
Get the clothes up, Twig.

745
00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:52.680
I do love this big screen on the set, you know, the big screen

746
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.799
where we'd, so this, the demon planet is one of our more

747
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:58.440
interesting missions according to the medium robin here.

748
00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:04.319
Starloin made me howl because it's still pretty mediocre, you

749
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:04.619
know?

750
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.440
And this is, as you know, Bob.

751
00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:12.239
Like, it is absolutely the medium Robert telling Tuvok exactly

752
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.500
what happened even though. ironically, you know, one of not the 3

753
00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:17.340
bobs in the show.

754
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.139
Yeah, that's right.

755
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:19.739
That's right.

756
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.500
It's bomb actually saying, look at poor Roxanne.

757
00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:25.679
She looks a bit like a reptile doesn't she?

758
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:27.300
It's dreadful.

759
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:30.000
And so this is where they realise it.

760
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:32.579
And actually, one of the things I think that you're meant to get

761
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:36.300
too. is that they talk about a few recent adventures which are

762
00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:38.099
nothing at all like what we've had.

763
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:39.300
Do you know what I mean?

764
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:41.639
Like they mentioned these things that happened to them and that

765
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:43.079
haven't happened in any episodes.

766
00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:48.119
And it's only when they go back to the demon planet thing that

767
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:49.679
they're talking about a real episode.

768
00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:54.539
I believe if he injects her with a dichromite catalyst, she might

769
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:56.159
start...

770
00:34:56.219 --> 00:34:56.880
Here we go.

771
00:34:56.940 --> 00:34:57.840
Oh, look at that.

772
00:34:57.900 --> 00:34:58.860
Like, why are you doing that?

773
00:34:58.920 --> 00:34:59.639
But you know what?

774
00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:02.880
You know, you were saying how people could sort of react to this

775
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.039
sort of stuff in a more dramatic way than we get.

776
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:08.340
You know, one person could if pseudo was still on the ship, he

777
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:10.800
could be like, my God, get me that dichromic catalyst.

778
00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:12.659
I'm going to go around melting everybody, you know?

779
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:13.500
Melting everyone.

780
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.900
Even that would be more fun.

781
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:18.179
Oh my god.

782
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.340
The way tumulk delivers that line, Depham.

783
00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:22.500
We are all duplicates.

784
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:26.280
And then you get obviously the sort of end of scene sting.

785
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:29.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and you get the medium Robert looking kind of

786
00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:30.239
upset.

787
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:33.780
I actually like the way that Tuvok delivers it and I'm glad they

788
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:35.519
gave that line to a good actor, you know.

789
00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:39.420
I'm glad Bob Picardo gets to say, behold, the primordial soup.

790
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.980
By the way, we're all gonna die.

791
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.599
Well, they should have just hang a lantern on it, though, and had

792
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:49.260
one line go.

793
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.320
You know, it's funny how we all forgot that we were from this

794
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:52.860
planet.

795
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:53.699
I do say it.

796
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.840
They do say that.

797
00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:55.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

798
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:56.820
No, they say it.

799
00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:00.179
She goes, I've got no memory of being a copy, blah, blah, blah.

800
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:01.980
You got Janeway's memories.

801
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:06.539
They were duplicated too. the real voyage left where you began to

802
00:36:06.539 --> 00:36:07.800
forget we were duplicates.

803
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:09.000
And that's stupid.

804
00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:11.460
That's nothing like what demon says and it's cheating.

805
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:15.179
So if this is a fair play mystery, if we're supposed to...

806
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:16.320
No, no, it makes no sense.

807
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:22.320
And the, and it, and it, it kind of retrospectively spoils demon

808
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.420
which of course it doesn't because you can watch demon and enjoy

809
00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:28.980
it or hate it or whatever you like without this affecting it.

810
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:30.900
It doesn't actually change demon in any way.

811
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:37.199
But it's just a bit crappy, if the mystery matters, if we're

812
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:41.760
supposed to work out what it is, then this is cheating because the

813
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:42.780
demon wasn't like that.

814
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.639
Did they decide on the planet, oh, you know what?

815
00:36:44.699 --> 00:36:46.619
Pull up some Voyager schematics, right?

816
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:48.420
Let's make that out of the goo.

817
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:49.019
Here we go.

818
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:49.559
Yep.

819
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.500
And then... purpose.

820
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.440
Oh, well, we're just going to go off and boyish the stars like the

821
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:59.219
other crew and then hopefully we won't run into them at any

822
00:36:59.219 --> 00:36:59.579
point.

823
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.579
No, because they think they're real now at this point.

824
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:06.119
They, so, so their experience, they were doing all of that.

825
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:09.539
They must still have remembered, you know, that they are

826
00:37:09.539 --> 00:37:11.099
duplicates on this player.

827
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:14.099
It has to be at some point after they've gone on the ship and

828
00:37:14.099 --> 00:37:15.119
they're off into space.

829
00:37:15.179 --> 00:37:19.079
Yeah, you can't push it too much because it falls to peace.

830
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:20.820
Surely they didn't all forget at the same time.

831
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:24.179
Like, people can't, what are you talking about?

832
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:25.260
We're from a demon planet.

833
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:28.800
Oh, you know, none of it makes anything.

834
00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:31.679
They're doing it to make they do whatever they need to do to make

835
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:32.400
the episode work.

836
00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:33.239
Oh, no.

837
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:34.559
Poor Kate.

838
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:37.199
She's starting to get...

839
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.099
She's getting the makeup.

840
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:41.880
Do you think the makeup here is worse than threshold?

841
00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:44.099
I don't think anything's worse than threshold.

842
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:48.300
Yeah, again, that's ugly as well, but at least it's only the worst

843
00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:49.260
Robert, who gets it.

844
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:51.480
At least no one's puking up their tongues in this though.

845
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:52.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

846
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.179
But here it's the entire crew.

847
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:56.760
You know, it's ugly to look at and it's everywhere.

848
00:37:56.820 --> 00:38:01.199
That poor woman in the band. in the back.

849
00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:04.260
Yeah, she's only a day player.

850
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:05.519
She got covered in latex.

851
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:07.199
Yeah, I saw that.

852
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:09.360
So Kate's right here.

853
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:13.739
She's expressing my view on what's going on here, that her

854
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.059
feelings are real.

855
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.219
Like, why are her feelings not real?

856
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:22.619
Why, why, so her subjective experience is, she remembers

857
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:28.079
everything of her childhood, everything up until a year ago, 10

858
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:33.179
months ago, like she has exactly the same memories as our Kate, and

859
00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:36.480
then it diverges a bit, and then suddenly she discovers she's not

860
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:36.780
real.

861
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:41.099
And so her experiences, I've been a real, Catherine Janeway, I'm

862
00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:44.579
real, and now I discover that I'm just this goo thing.

863
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:45.840
What do I do?

864
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:47.400
Do know what I mean?

865
00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:49.920
The real Catherine Janeway is just made of meat.

866
00:38:49.980 --> 00:38:51.300
Like, do you know what I mean?

867
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:52.800
It's not what you're made of.

868
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:56.340
To take this line of reasoning to its conclusion then.

869
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:58.860
So you like the voyage crew, right, on the whole?

870
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

871
00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:01.019
Right?

872
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.960
So then you like these people because you believe these are the

873
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:07.019
Voyager Prue and you are watching these people slowly die

874
00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:07.980
throughout this episode.

875
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.559
So why aren't you incredibly moved by all this?

876
00:39:10.619 --> 00:39:17.880
Because it's just stupid and like manipulative and it doesn't land

877
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:18.960
like none of it's real.

878
00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:22.500
Like they all just die of a stupid space. real.

879
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:26.280
None of what happens to them is real because they just die of a

880
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:27.239
dumb space disease.

881
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:28.139
Do you know what I mean?

882
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:29.880
Like that's not tragedy.

883
00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:32.400
Like someone catches a disease and dies.

884
00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:35.340
That's sad, but it's not tragedy.

885
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.079
And this is a TV show.

886
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:37.800
It's not real life.

887
00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:41.280
Like you could get sad if lots of people caught in disease and

888
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.420
died and they were real.

889
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.360
But if all of the characters in your show called a disease and

890
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.119
died, you'd be going, what the fuck happened in the writer's

891
00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:48.539
room?

892
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:49.320
What's going on here?

893
00:39:49.380 --> 00:39:51.300
can't be very sad though.

894
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:53.519
Because I don't know if you remember the quickening where they've

895
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:56.699
got that terrible disease blighted planet and they're all dying.

896
00:39:56.760 --> 00:40:00.119
And Bashir gets very close to that lovely lady of Corya.

897
00:40:00.179 --> 00:40:02.639
And then she dies at the end of the episode.

898
00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:05.219
But of course, because he's been putting all the drugs, which he

899
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:08.579
thinks is going to cure it, all goes into a uterus, the baby comes

900
00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:12.420
out cured, and it's not only satisfying, but it's emotionally

901
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:15.539
resonant as well, it offers hope for the future.

902
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:18.780
All the things this episode is refusing to.

903
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:21.420
We're deliberately choosing not to do.

904
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:23.760
I'm saying it's called course oblivion.

905
00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:29.219
It absolutely, like just mean spiritedly refuses to give them a

906
00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:32.880
win at all. those flowers and everything they try doesn't work.

907
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:35.940
Are those flowers supposed to be wilting like that because the

908
00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:36.539
ship's dying?

909
00:40:36.659 --> 00:40:38.039
I don't know.

910
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:40.980
It looks like, you know, I sometimes put out flowers and it's like

911
00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:43.860
that day's sort of sale by date on them and they're all a bit...

912
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:45.239
It's what they look like.

913
00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:48.179
I think it's supposed to be a visual clue that the ship sort of

914
00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:48.539
melting.

915
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:49.320
Maybe.

916
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.139
I could be reading far too much into this.

917
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.860
Well, but look how bad this scene is as well.

918
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:59.940
So she's going to try and get them home.

919
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.480
Like this, like I just...

920
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.460
There's no tribe in any of the performances.

921
00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:09.599
Kate Mulgrew is usually vital and alive in her performance, you

922
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:09.840
know?

923
00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:11.519
She just gives up in this.

924
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.260
Because there's nothing real about the situation they're in.

925
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:19.320
So imagine you discover that you're a goo person.

926
00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:21.000
What do you do with that?

927
00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:22.860
What do you do with that information?

928
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:25.320
You know, what, is it, is it wrong?

929
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:26.400
You're asking me that question?

930
00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:27.300
Yeah.

931
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:31.260
If I discovered I was a goo person and not, in fact, the real Joe

932
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:34.559
Ford, I'll probably go looking for the real Joe Ford.

933
00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:36.659
He's pretty hot, you know, we can have a lot of fun.

934
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.059
Yeah, there's always that, isn't there?

935
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:40.079
You could do that.

936
00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:43.739
But, um, but, like, what's the right thing to do?

937
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.880
We having an argument here.

938
00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:48.539
He thinks we should go back to the Y planet, the demon class

939
00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:50.280
planet from last year's episode.

940
00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:52.739
She thinks we should continue on our mission.

941
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.820
Who's right?

942
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:54.539
I don't know.

943
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:55.920
How do I even decide that?

944
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:57.780
So what's, what's, you know?

945
00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:00.360
It's not analogous to anything in our life.

946
00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:01.920
That's true.

947
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:04.199
Using Star Trek can do this quite well, can't they?

948
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:06.420
We're sort of metaphor that we can buy into.

949
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:07.679
But yeah.

950
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:12.000
And like the nearest there is to a possible reading of this where

951
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.480
it's kind of like we aren't who we thought we were, but we have

952
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.539
these memories and ideas and thoughts and the things that Kate was

953
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:22.920
saying before, and those things are real, you know, those things

954
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:27.360
those things are real, those things matter, even if we aren't who

955
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:28.199
we thought we were.

956
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:32.340
And I think there's something there, but it doesn't go anywhere

957
00:42:32.340 --> 00:42:35.579
and we don't learn anything from it, and this is ugly.

958
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:36.360
Look at this.

959
00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:39.780
And it just has no impact on our crew at all.

960
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:41.699
That's such an oversight.

961
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:44.639
They were right to have that argument in the writer's room about

962
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:45.360
the ending.

963
00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:46.920
They made the wrong call.

964
00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:52.260
Well, I think thematically if they wanted to create a nasty, ugly

965
00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:55.679
episode, then this ending is the right call.

966
00:42:55.739 --> 00:42:57.719
That's what they were going for.

967
00:42:57.780 --> 00:43:00.420
I think they think this is high drama.

968
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.679
They were. they were going, you know, they're so cruel to this

969
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:05.039
crew.

970
00:43:05.099 --> 00:43:07.800
I don't think they're just trying to be deliberately cruel.

971
00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:10.139
I think we are supposed to feel for these people.

972
00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:12.659
That's that's the idea.

973
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:16.199
And by the end of it, you know, the irony that they dole died

974
00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:19.800
before the other Voyager crew came along, the ultimate tragedy.

975
00:43:19.860 --> 00:43:21.300
Their deaths have no purpose.

976
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.639
It's supposed to move us to tears.

977
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.260
Yeah, no, that's stupid.

978
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:26.280
And look at this.

979
00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:31.860
How can they not be the real Voyager crew, if they're meeting a

980
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:35.940
group of intransigent aliens who want to get in their way for no

981
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:36.360
reason.

982
00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:39.539
Like, that's classic voyage, and they kind of go, yes, that's

983
00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:39.719
right.

984
00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:40.860
We are the Voyager crew.

985
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:42.900
This bullshit happens to them every week.

986
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.360
I'll be saying, are we still doing this shit, really?

987
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.579
where none of us are real.

988
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:51.480
Well, I mean, no, but like here they're trying to go down to that

989
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:53.880
planet because they think it's an environment that they can

990
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:58.139
survive in more easily that it'll stop their degradation.

991
00:43:58.199 --> 00:43:59.940
And so this is...

992
00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:02.460
In the same breath that Tom Paris is, you know, token objections.

993
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:03.539
Why should we listen to her?

994
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:07.800
Yeah, take that to it saying, have a riot, have the Kruger, just

995
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:09.960
make, just do this with some passion.

996
00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:14.699
Or just don't do this, I think, because all of it's so hardhearted

997
00:44:14.699 --> 00:44:15.119
isn't it?

998
00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:18.780
I've never seen people die so somnambulistically.

999
00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:20.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1000
00:44:20.699 --> 00:44:24.179
But I don't think having a being fired, you know, where every, you

1001
00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:29.159
know, like, why is Tom such a prick here?

1002
00:44:29.219 --> 00:44:30.599
I think he always is.

1003
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:32.039
He's not actor.

1004
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:32.579
I think that's it.

1005
00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:34.980
But is that is that what we want?

1006
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:36.480
It's supposed to be like the rebel, isn't he?

1007
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.500
Well, but he's supposed to be the character that we like, isn't

1008
00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:40.619
he?

1009
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:44.639
Because he's kind of cool and he likes the 20th century and it all

1010
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:45.960
fails horribly his dream.

1011
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.159
Did he ever call, Nathan?

1012
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:49.980
No, no, but I think the writers think he probably is.

1013
00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:52.679
I think he's like the closest to like a jock on the show, don't

1014
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:52.860
they?

1015
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:53.219
You know?

1016
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.019
It's a bit of swagger about him.

1017
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:56.820
Exactly, exactly.

1018
00:44:57.059 --> 00:44:59.519
So, but why does he do that?

1019
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:00.659
Why does he react that way?

1020
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.039
Because B'lana's dead?

1021
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.099
Well, like every, you know, heaps of people are dying around

1022
00:45:05.099 --> 00:45:05.460
here.

1023
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.139
He's the one being the prick about it.

1024
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.119
Like what, you know, like what?

1025
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.980
This could be the time for like the marquee mutiny, you know, I'm

1026
00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:14.340
doing this.

1027
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:18.599
What is, but what's Tom proposing here, that we just kill all the

1028
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:20.519
people on board this ship so we can land?

1029
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:22.679
So does that mean we're doing that?

1030
00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:24.000
Paris is an asshole all along.

1031
00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:26.940
If this is exactly the same as the Voyager Cruise?

1032
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:27.360
Yeah.

1033
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:30.900
Yeah, if anything, if like anything bad happens to him.

1034
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:33.059
If his wife dies, it's like, all bets are often.

1035
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:34.559
I think we should just murder a bunch of people.

1036
00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:36.059
Like, what's that?

1037
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:39.480
I think they're trying to justify him being demoted earlier on in

1038
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:41.219
the season in that ocean planet episode.

1039
00:45:41.340 --> 00:45:44.159
Oh, that horrible makeup on her face.

1040
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:48.960
Even Robert Beltran.

1041
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:49.860
Oh, no.

1042
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:51.599
No, he's got terrible makeup too.

1043
00:45:51.659 --> 00:45:54.420
I heard, though, that bit. over her eyes.

1044
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.039
Oh, it's dreadful.

1045
00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:57.719
It's dreadful.

1046
00:45:57.780 --> 00:45:59.880
Who thought this was good?

1047
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:01.139
Do you know what it looks like?

1048
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:03.539
You know, because like I saw somebody have a stroke at work once

1049
00:46:03.539 --> 00:46:06.840
and their eyes sort of went lazy like that.

1050
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:08.760
It's really horrible.

1051
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.719
Yeah.

1052
00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:10.619
Yeah.

1053
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.000
Yeah.

1054
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:14.820
Let's look at our situation objectively here.

1055
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:15.360
Okay.

1056
00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:18.420
Let's be objective about this crazy situation.

1057
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:23.099
So, I mean, also, here we go.

1058
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:24.840
We're talking about the marquee stuff now.

1059
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:27.179
He's saying, look, I've decided to do this because I thought we

1060
00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:28.019
were the real crew.

1061
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:28.679
Now we're not.

1062
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.320
But I mean, that kind of makes...

1063
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:35.699
Yeah, I mean, it makes sense in that if they're going to stay

1064
00:46:35.699 --> 00:46:39.539
alive, they have to do something different from what the Voyager

1065
00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:45.059
crew would have to do, yeah, um, so they, the facts of the matter

1066
00:46:45.059 --> 00:46:48.719
have changed the situation enough that what they need to do is

1067
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:49.260
something different.

1068
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:50.820
And Janeway needs to realise that.

1069
00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:53.940
She doesn't need to, like, kill people or, you know, compromise

1070
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:56.159
her principles because they're her principles and they still

1071
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:58.739
matter even if she's a goo person, you know.

1072
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.940
But you know, like when when these sort of dramatic crux of the

1073
00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:06.420
episode is, do we just keep doing what we've always been doing or

1074
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:08.699
do we turn around and go back to where we were a year ago?

1075
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:12.360
I feel as if we've gone up a blind alley with this episode.

1076
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:14.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1077
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:17.519
Because neither option is interesting when it's about these

1078
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:18.659
melting people.

1079
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:20.579
No, that's right.

1080
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.900
But, like, and home isn't earth, like, in what sense I know he's

1081
00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:25.320
going to die.

1082
00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:28.980
That's right. you know, Did you feel anything when he died?

1083
00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:30.000
Because I didn't.

1084
00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:31.860
No, because it's just another...

1085
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:34.199
I mean, I didn't feel anything when anyone died.

1086
00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:35.159
No.

1087
00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:40.860
And it's not because they're not real and because they're every

1088
00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:43.860
bit as real as they are every week, it's the same actors doing the

1089
00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:45.900
same shit, you know, like on the same sets.

1090
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:47.519
It's what we're used to seeing.

1091
00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:51.119
It's just that all of this is so bullshit.

1092
00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:54.900
These scenes now where she sits down in the chair in a minute, just

1093
00:47:54.900 --> 00:47:58.559
sort of sort of relaxes into the chair and the terrible makeup and

1094
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.099
her voice is flat and I just feel like Kate Mulgra has given up.

1095
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.340
Yeah, they're not pulling this shit on.

1096
00:48:05.460 --> 00:48:09.659
They're not making Tim Russ wear horrible goo makeup, are they?

1097
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:13.199
I just feel like she, by this point in this production schedule in

1098
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:16.440
this season, we're about 2 thirds through now, and she's got this

1099
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:17.760
grizzly makeup on her face.

1100
00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:19.739
Kate Margaret has gone, oh, enough.

1101
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.199
I'll phone it in for the rest of the episode.

1102
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:23.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1103
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:25.559
It's not even supposed to be me anyway.

1104
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:26.760
So...

1105
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:31.260
Well, and no one else, like no one else gets makeup.

1106
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.260
Like, they all get makeup that makes them look stupid.

1107
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:35.159
Right?

1108
00:48:35.219 --> 00:48:38.639
But none of them gets makeup that actually obscures their features

1109
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:43.500
and makes it hard for them to, you know, like visibly express

1110
00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:44.099
themselves.

1111
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:47.460
And these close-ups ugly and unpleasant, and she's got the thing

1112
00:48:47.460 --> 00:48:48.059
over her eye.

1113
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:52.500
She can still, you know, do basically anything that she needs to

1114
00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:53.280
do with her face.

1115
00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:56.760
But later on, it's like this sort of hard carapace on a face

1116
00:48:56.760 --> 00:49:00.719
that's covering her eye and one side of her mouth and she's trying

1117
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:02.579
you know, she's expected to act through it.

1118
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:03.780
Do you know what, Nathan?

1119
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:04.559
This writing team.

1120
00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:07.980
Yeah, they've got one of the greatest weapons they could possibly

1121
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:08.340
have.

1122
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:11.760
They've got Kate Mongrew and they do this to her.

1123
00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:13.260
Yeah, I know.

1124
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:14.519
Oh no, it's so embarrassing.

1125
00:49:14.579 --> 00:49:19.920
I do love these shots of Voyager kind of melting. the Odo morphing

1126
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:20.880
effects. you know.

1127
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:21.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1128
00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:23.340
Well, that's it. green liquid.

1129
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:26.760
It's silver liquid. they're the same sort of thing So this scene

1130
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:27.960
is the scene that I remember.

1131
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:30.420
It's utterly fucking embarrassing.

1132
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:34.139
Look at all of them. at all of them.

1133
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.019
No, you've got Kate.

1134
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:39.840
You've got...

1135
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:41.219
Oh, Neelix.

1136
00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:45.300
You've got pretty Garrett Wang and Pretty Jerry Ryan there.

1137
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:46.920
I mean, even Felix.

1138
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:50.820
He's already covered in spots and hair and ridges and now they put

1139
00:49:50.820 --> 00:49:53.099
some...

1140
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:55.320
Like they're covering her eye.

1141
00:49:55.380 --> 00:49:58.019
Like they're covering her right eye on one side of her mouth and

1142
00:49:58.019 --> 00:50:00.360
expecting her to act and deliver dialogue.

1143
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:01.980
And look at that.

1144
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:03.239
Look at Jerry Ryan.

1145
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:04.320
Jesus Christ.

1146
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:05.940
What are they doing?

1147
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:07.920
What is that?

1148
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.639
Just active fit to each other. between takes.

1149
00:50:15.059 --> 00:50:20.219
They better bring me soup for lunch because I can only drink for a

1150
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:21.659
straw. fucking bullshit.

1151
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:23.519
And look at Garrett.

1152
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:24.480
It's awful.

1153
00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:25.739
It's awful.

1154
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:27.719
Garrett's reusing his makeup.

1155
00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:30.239
Remember when he got infected by Species 8472.

1156
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:31.619
It looks a bit like that again.

1157
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:33.239
They've got the tubes up the nose again.

1158
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:34.619
They choose up the nose.

1159
00:50:34.739 --> 00:50:35.340
Yeah, yeah.

1160
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:35.699
Yeah.

1161
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.880
Oh, no, now Neelix is the chief medical officer.

1162
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:41.460
Just when we thought fingers couldn't get any trouble now.

1163
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:42.900
That's right.

1164
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:45.539
Oh, no.

1165
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.559
Kate, she should have said, how do you expect me to talk with a

1166
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:50.579
flu in my mouth?

1167
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:51.179
That's right.

1168
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:52.440
What are we doing here?

1169
00:50:52.500 --> 00:50:54.360
Who thinks this is a good idea?

1170
00:50:54.420 --> 00:50:56.880
Why is this in any way watchable?

1171
00:50:56.940 --> 00:50:59.940
Do you know, I fear if there's anyone in the audience that enjoys

1172
00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:02.820
listening to us and rant and rave in a hysterical way?

1173
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:05.699
They will not be shortchanged in calls oblivion.

1174
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:07.139
Yeah, okay.

1175
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:09.059
So here we're doing another thing, right?

1176
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:10.559
We're doing our personal logs.

1177
00:51:10.619 --> 00:51:13.860
We've all seen the inner light, and so we're deciding that we're

1178
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:21.119
gonna download, download our logs of the last 10 years of Voyager

1179
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:25.260
10 months of Voyager episodes that never happened, and we're going

1180
00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:27.539
to, you know, send them off into space.

1181
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:35.099
But just because the riders are being horrible, it doesn't work.

1182
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:37.679
And, you know, it's called course oblivion.

1183
00:51:37.739 --> 00:51:39.119
So it was never going to work.

1184
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:42.000
They're not going to be remembered because that's the opposite of

1185
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:43.380
what oblivion means.

1186
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:45.059
Like I kind of get that.

1187
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:48.539
And I kind of get, you know, if we're making an existential point

1188
00:51:48.539 --> 00:51:52.860
if we're expecting our legacy to last forever, then we're fooling

1189
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:56.579
ourselves and we can't act on that basis either, we have to make

1190
00:51:56.579 --> 00:52:00.480
our decisions, you know, now for this life because that's what

1191
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:01.079
we've got.

1192
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:04.860
But, like, it just seems so mean spiritual.

1193
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:05.639
So depressing.

1194
00:52:05.699 --> 00:52:07.500
So depressing.

1195
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:10.440
I wonder if this is why the deep memorial in the next season and

1196
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:14.159
the entire episode about this huge obelisk that remembers the

1197
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:18.960
society, you know. strangely enough, it's very moving and engaging

1198
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:19.320
to watch.

1199
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:22.019
Yes, this bullshit.

1200
00:52:22.739 --> 00:52:25.320
Yeah, no, let's shake the camera now a bit as well.

1201
00:52:25.380 --> 00:52:28.139
In fact, no, when they shake the camera, the sort of the makeup is

1202
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:28.860
less visible.

1203
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:29.639
So keep going.

1204
00:52:29.940 --> 00:52:33.059
I mean, this has still got 7 minutes to go.

1205
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:36.179
Oh, yeah, it's really bad.

1206
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:38.760
Should we sing or something?

1207
00:52:38.820 --> 00:52:43.079
No, we're just having a scene of techno babble. only everyone's

1208
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:49.440
ugly. which is normally what we have. fucking Did you see the, the

1209
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:51.539
um, God, it's what they're called.

1210
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:52.559
The closed captions there.

1211
00:52:52.619 --> 00:52:54.480
It said tired sigh.

1212
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:56.940
I mean, it could be close captioning me right now.

1213
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:01.980
All right, now Janeway's dead, which seems like an odd choice, but

1214
00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:02.159
okay.

1215
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:03.719
This should move. surely.

1216
00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:07.800
Yeah, no, but the whole thing is just, it's just like, oh, well, at

1217
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:10.619
least Kate doesn't have to get made up for the next 10 days.

1218
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:14.400
Even the Vedians that they're worst looked as ghastly as Neelix

1219
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:15.119
does right there.

1220
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:17.280
Or Garrett, look at him.

1221
00:53:17.340 --> 00:53:18.539
Oh, Jerry.

1222
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:19.440
Jesus Christ.

1223
00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:21.059
It's so it's so bad.

1224
00:53:21.179 --> 00:53:23.460
She looks like a monkey.

1225
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:24.780
Like it's awful.

1226
00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:28.139
I remember when we did Genesis, you know, and everyone was turning

1227
00:53:28.139 --> 00:53:28.800
into creatures.

1228
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:30.480
But that was fun.

1229
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:34.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1230
00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:37.260
Orphors and Neanderthal and Reg Barker as a spider.

1231
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.800
Yeah, I mean, I'm starting to see that episode in a new light, you

1232
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:41.039
know.

1233
00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1234
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:44.579
Just look how just bleak this is.

1235
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:46.500
And like he's this special effect.

1236
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:48.719
Naughty let's give a shot of people dying.

1237
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:50.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1238
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:51.539
Yeah.

1239
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.800
Star Trek, you know?

1240
00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:56.400
Yeah.

1241
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.679
This bold optimistic year of the future.

1242
00:53:58.739 --> 00:54:00.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1243
00:54:00.539 --> 00:54:03.420
No, the what happens in the future is everyone dies horribly and

1244
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:05.159
then is forgotten. and that's true.

1245
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:08.699
But, like, why are we watching an episode about?

1246
00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:13.500
There are ways of examining that, of rejecting that idea and

1247
00:54:13.500 --> 00:54:17.159
examining that, and it's what DSI did on a regular occasion in its

1248
00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:17.760
later years.

1249
00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:19.440
This is not that.

1250
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:20.880
No.

1251
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:22.739
This is just giving up.

1252
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:25.619
Yeah, yeah.

1253
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:28.500
You know, well, matches are not, are they?

1254
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.599
They're still sort of trying with all this techno.

1255
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:31.380
They're still doing stuff.

1256
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:33.179
Well, they're still trying to send off this thing.

1257
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.579
That's the one thing that's happening.

1258
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.940
I think somebody should have committed suicide just to make it

1259
00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:39.900
even ghastlier.

1260
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:41.159
Jerry Ryan should have gone.

1261
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:43.860
I can't face looking on this for the rest of my life.

1262
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for the rest of this episode.

1263
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.840
I can't do sit in the makeup chair.

1264
00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:51.300
I'm not getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning to be made up to

1265
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:53.579
look like this for another day.

1266
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:57.840
Oh, funnily enough, they didn't do this to her on Picol, did

1267
00:54:57.840 --> 00:54:58.079
they?

1268
00:54:58.139 --> 00:54:58.860
No.

1269
00:54:58.860 --> 00:54:59.280
No.

1270
00:54:59.340 --> 00:55:03.599
They just let her look as sexy as she possibly can.

1271
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:09.420
Oh, no, the launch mechanism's demolecularized.

1272
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:10.380
Oh, no.

1273
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:12.059
I hear that's bad news.

1274
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:15.780
Well, I think it means that there are no molecules in it anymore.

1275
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:19.380
And it's something that catastrophic existence.

1276
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.780
Mission locks... history gone.

1277
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:24.300
They don't have a backup.

1278
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:26.579
Like, I just don't, like, they don't have a backup.

1279
00:55:26.579 --> 00:55:30.059
And they just put them in the thing. and they were just going to

1280
00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:30.960
fire it off into space.

1281
00:55:31.019 --> 00:55:31.860
They didn't have a backup.

1282
00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:34.199
They deleted them all.

1283
00:55:34.260 --> 00:55:38.760
It should be panic, you know, like, it should be, it should make

1284
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:40.440
you feel something in the performance.

1285
00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:42.780
But they're so fucking lacklustre.

1286
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:45.059
Yeah, yeah.

1287
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:46.980
Oh, God.

1288
00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:49.079
No, we're trying to hail Voyager.

1289
00:55:49.139 --> 00:55:51.360
The subspace transceivers malfunctioning now.

1290
00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:52.199
Yeah, yeah.

1291
00:55:52.260 --> 00:55:56.340
Because just everything and his puppy has died as well.

1292
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:59.280
And like, it's just everything terrible is happening.

1293
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:03.119
I just, I do wonder as well about the decision of leaving Garrett

1294
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:06.239
Wang to do the sort of emotional climax of the episode.

1295
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:09.239
Oh, no, maybe they watched timeless earlier in the season, of

1296
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:09.420
course.

1297
00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:10.500
Well, it worked.

1298
00:56:10.619 --> 00:56:11.639
They thought he can do it.

1299
00:56:11.699 --> 00:56:15.000
He can do it. bring things to the table.

1300
00:56:15.059 --> 00:56:17.340
No, basically, but who's talking about?

1301
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:18.179
No one can bring this.

1302
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.280
Kate Mulgrew couldn't do it.

1303
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:21.420
Yeah, that's right.

1304
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.480
If this is above Kate Mulgrew's acting great.

1305
00:56:24.539 --> 00:56:26.519
Garat Wang doesn't have a hope.

1306
00:56:26.579 --> 00:56:30.659
Sorry, Gary. don't ever listen to untitled Star Trek expression.

1307
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:34.920
But he is so pretty and they've ruined that as well.

1308
00:56:34.980 --> 00:56:38.219
They've taken away as one redeeming feature as an accent.

1309
00:56:38.219 --> 00:56:38.880
That's right.

1310
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.019
The one thing that kept him on the show.

1311
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:42.539
All right.

1312
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.260
So what are we doing?

1313
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:44.820
We're ejecting the warp core.

1314
00:56:44.940 --> 00:56:46.920
Oh, no, it doesn't work.

1315
00:56:46.980 --> 00:56:48.960
I suppose this reasons.

1316
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:51.480
At this point, we're still thinking, we've still got a glimmer of

1317
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:54.599
hope, but actually, boy, we'll see somebody.

1318
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.380
I remember them.

1319
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:57.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1320
00:56:57.960 --> 00:56:59.880
Oh, the ship's shaking his head apart.

1321
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:02.159
Sparks flying. can't see any rocks.

1322
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:06.659
No, none of the, none of the console seem to be explo-.

1323
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.480
Oh, there we go. why it's not Voyager, you see?

1324
00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:09.900
No rocks.

1325
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:11.280
Yeah, yeah.

1326
00:57:11.340 --> 00:57:13.980
But I think we cut away from it before we see anything

1327
00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:15.239
catastrophic happen.

1328
00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:19.559
I mean, apart from this, this is pretty catastrophic. 7's dead.

1329
00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:23.699
But not even a witty line like Janeway had every time she blew up

1330
00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:24.119
the ship.

1331
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:24.599
No.

1332
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:25.079
Yeah.

1333
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:25.619
You know?

1334
00:57:25.739 --> 00:57:28.800
Hello, everybody. welcome to the bridge.

1335
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:30.900
So great.

1336
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:35.460
So just hang on for 5 seconds, 5 minutes, Garrett, you can do it.

1337
00:57:35.579 --> 00:57:37.500
Now we come back to the real ship.

1338
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:39.000
Oh, yeah.

1339
00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:39.719
Here we go.

1340
00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:41.219
And everyone's looking normal.

1341
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.739
Oh, except for the...

1342
00:57:43.739 --> 00:57:46.019
Indistinguishable from the fake one.

1343
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:49.920
Oh, no, wait. looks a lot nicer.

1344
00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:52.139
That's right.

1345
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:59.099
And so, and so this, right, which I think is, again, another bleak

1346
00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:02.940
thing where she enters into the log.

1347
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:08.699
So not only, like when we see them on the on the screen, that's

1348
00:58:08.699 --> 00:58:10.920
nothing, it's just liquid, do you know what I mean?

1349
00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:14.579
Like it's just completely gone apart.

1350
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:18.840
Like it's, it's just sort of fallen into liquid. and then we

1351
00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:20.159
get...

1352
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:23.460
Residual, juridim...

1353
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:24.840
Well, we had that.

1354
00:58:24.900 --> 00:58:25.440
We had that before.

1355
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:27.599
At least everybody looks pretty again, though.

1356
00:58:27.659 --> 00:58:30.300
Yeah, see that's that's good.

1357
00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:33.239
And they never, they never fucked up Tim Ross.

1358
00:58:33.300 --> 00:58:36.239
In fact, I don't think they've ever looked to hear me.

1359
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:37.980
They do in this scene, all of them.

1360
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:41.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's right Make a note in the ship's record.

1361
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:46.019
We received a distress call at 900 hours and that's it.

1362
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:49.320
That's all that survives of that ship is that entry in the log.

1363
00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:52.019
The ship was destroyed.

1364
00:58:52.139 --> 00:58:54.659
She says, that's it. unknown.

1365
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:55.739
Yeah.

1366
00:58:55.800 --> 00:58:59.940
And so we could have called this episode cause unknown.

1367
00:58:59.940 --> 00:59:04.440
I like how she's delivering this because, do you know what I

1368
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:04.559
mean?

1369
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:08.820
She's getting to act like she's thinking about it, like what's you

1370
00:59:08.820 --> 00:59:09.960
look at how she's thinking.

1371
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:13.980
It's, it's Kate doing the thing where it's just like, I don't know

1372
00:59:13.980 --> 00:59:17.579
what happened here and she's properly wondering about it and she's

1373
00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:19.500
selling that she's wondering about it.

1374
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:21.119
But that's amazing that they get.

1375
00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:24.599
How much she can perform when they remove the adhesive from her

1376
00:59:24.599 --> 00:59:25.559
mouth, isn't it?

1377
00:59:25.619 --> 00:59:26.760
right.

1378
00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:27.840
It's amazing.

1379
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:29.219
You know what, right?

1380
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:31.559
I got to tell you, because the next episode has now begun on

1381
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.940
Netflix, and it's the fight featuring Robert Belcher and screaming

1382
00:59:35.940 --> 00:59:38.760
hysterically because he's having all these visions of the boxing

1383
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:39.719
ring and Boothby.

1384
00:59:39.780 --> 00:59:44.579
And, of course, oblivion is the middle course of the trilogy of

1385
00:59:44.579 --> 00:59:48.480
terror, the disease, course oblivion, and the fight. and the

1386
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:49.920
five.

1387
00:59:49.980 --> 00:59:52.679
And boys only does it twice.

1388
00:59:52.739 --> 00:59:56.280
There's a 3 episode run which we've already talked about in series

1389
00:59:56.280 --> 00:59:56.699
three.

1390
00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:00.300
Ironically enough, also features a Harry Kim episode in there as

1391
01:00:00.300 --> 01:00:00.539
well.

1392
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:01.079
Right.

1393
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:04.500
In fact, both of them, there's a fake heritage for Harry Kim.

1394
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:07.380
In both of those episodes, and they're both appalling.

1395
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.980
Yeah, that just doesn't have a pulse to it at all.

1396
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:15.900
I mean, I know they don't have pulses, but like, no, it's awful.

1397
01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:17.400
Like, it is just awful.

1398
01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:19.619
And it's in no way enjoyable.

1399
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:23.280
It's bleak and it just unnecessarily miserable.

1400
01:00:23.340 --> 01:00:26.639
It's mean spirited, and it's in no way entertaining.

1401
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:31.860
But what is the most egregious thing about this is we know all the

1402
01:00:31.860 --> 01:00:35.159
people involved in this episode have done great work elsewhere.

1403
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:38.699
Fuller went on to create Star Trek Discovery, whatever you think

1404
01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:40.739
about that, it was a huge success.

1405
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:44.219
And some Williams directed it's only a paper moon, which was one

1406
01:00:44.219 --> 01:00:46.380
of the best character dramas in 90s trek.

1407
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:49.619
These actors have done Sterling work elsewhere.

1408
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:54.840
So how did all these people come together to create this nothing

1409
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:55.260
else?

1410
01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:56.820
Awful.

1411
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:57.960
Just dreadful.

1412
01:00:58.019 --> 01:00:58.920
Well, look.

1413
01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:03.719
As ever, you know, I said this a lot, but my most enjoyable

1414
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:06.960
experience of watching Course Oblivion has been, of course, with

1415
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:09.599
you ranting hysterically at my size.

1416
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:22.320
Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work

1417
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:23.460
out where we're going next.

1418
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:28.320
I sometimes go to the stats to see which series we've done too

1419
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:30.840
much of so that we don't use it up.

1420
01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:34.679
You know, I don't want to find myself at the end of Untitled Star

1421
01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:40.320
Trek project sometime in 2040 or something, with no more episodes

1422
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:42.239
of Deep Space 9 left to watch.

1423
01:01:42.300 --> 01:01:45.179
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1424
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:47.940
So we try and we try and keep things even.

1425
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:52.320
But because that was such a deeply, deeply unpleasant experience

1426
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:55.679
I'm going to choose something that we've actually watched a bit

1427
01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:57.480
more of than any other show.

1428
01:01:57.539 --> 01:02:00.480
Strange new world to choose an episode.

1429
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:01.679
Strange new world.

1430
01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:03.900
Oh, my God.

1431
01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:07.260
He's going to drop another 10 episodes sometime recently soon.

1432
01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:08.579
It's in production at the moment.

1433
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:12.719
I have to watch something good. was absolutely fucking miserable.

1434
01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:17.039
This is the one time I can say with absolute confidence that what

1435
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:20.579
we're about to watch will be better than what we've just watched.

1436
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:22.079
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1437
01:02:22.139 --> 01:02:24.960
Yeah, well, we could do an enterprise episode and that would be

1438
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:25.079
true.

1439
01:02:25.139 --> 01:02:27.719
We could do an animated series episode.

1440
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:31.440
All right.

1441
01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:33.179
So we're going in.

1442
01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:34.559
I'm going to press the button.

1443
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:39.420
Your random Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode is all those who

1444
01:02:39.420 --> 01:02:43.260
wander, season one, episode nine.

1445
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:48.000
So this is the 2nd last episode of series one.

1446
01:02:48.059 --> 01:02:52.500
It's a 10 episode season, and it is one of the gone episodes.

1447
01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:57.360
So it's a brilliantly atmospheric, if not entirely original

1448
01:02:57.360 --> 01:03:00.900
premise, done just incredibly.

1449
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:02.460
It's about originality.

1450
01:03:02.460 --> 01:03:05.099
When the horror is done this.

1451
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:07.320
Well, Star Trek is pretty lame at horror.

1452
01:03:07.380 --> 01:03:08.880
This was terrifying.

1453
01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:10.559
It's really good.

1454
01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:16.260
And one of the very few episodes of Star Trek that you and I have

1455
01:03:16.260 --> 01:03:18.119
watched together in person.

1456
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:19.860
Yeah, that's true.

1457
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:21.360
We have watched that one together.

1458
01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:23.400
And it's really terrifically enjoyable.

1459
01:03:23.460 --> 01:03:24.119
I think it's great.

1460
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:25.739
So I think we just go with that one immediately.

1461
01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:26.460
What do you reckon?

1462
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:27.539
Oh, glorious.

1463
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:28.139
Let's do it.

1464
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:30.059
Yeah, awesome.

1465
01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:43.260
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1466
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:47.400
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitledstar trekproject.com

1467
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:50.219
where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1468
01:03:50.219 --> 01:03:51.119
media accounts.

1469
01:03:51.179 --> 01:03:55.440
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed

1470
01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:56.699
by Cameron Lamb.

1471
01:03:56.760 --> 01:04:01.380
This episode was recorded on the 2nd of April 2024 and released on

1472
01:04:01.380 --> 01:04:02.340
the 19th of April.

1473
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:06.420
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Strange New Worlds, all

1474
01:04:06.420 --> 01:04:07.619
those who wander.

1475
01:04:23.099 --> 01:04:24.719
Oh, great.

1476
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:26.460
Jesus Christ.

1477
01:04:26.460 --> 01:04:28.739
And he seemed like that as Hammer dying.

1478
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:29.820
Do you know what I mean?

1479
01:04:29.940 --> 01:04:30.480
Like Hammer?

1480
01:04:30.539 --> 01:04:33.480
who's been in it for like how many episodes?

1481
01:04:33.539 --> 01:04:38.340
5 episodes or 6 episodes. and that death land.

1482
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:41.039
Oh, I think I said this when we did skin of evil.

1483
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:45.059
That death is more affecting than Yars, death in skin of evil.

1484
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:46.500
And it's certainly...

1485
01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:47.880
Tears of the profits comes up soon.

1486
01:04:47.940 --> 01:04:50.340
And we're going to do all the deaths, you know?

1487
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:51.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1488
01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:53.280
Not that many of them.

1489
01:04:53.340 --> 01:04:59.699
And, and, you know, like, and all of those deaths, all 400 and

1490
01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:02.760
something deaths or whatever, how many people are on Voyage 150?

1491
01:05:02.820 --> 01:05:03.780
I don't remember.

1492
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:07.079
Yeah, something like that, yeah. 170, something like that, yeah.

1493
01:05:07.199 --> 01:05:10.980
Yeah, but all of those people dying like, you know, who cares

1494
01:05:10.980 --> 01:05:12.780
because it was just so dumb.

1495
01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:17.159
Yeah, yeah, that's going to be good.

1496
01:05:17.219 --> 01:05:18.960
I love Voyager.

1497
01:05:19.019 --> 01:05:20.219
And those Voyager.

1498
01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:22.739
I love, um, Strangely World.

1499
01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:26.639
Even dramatis persona, you know, are cared more about than this

1500
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:27.000
episode.

1501
01:05:27.059 --> 01:05:29.639
I just don't know if I've ever watched an episode in this entire

1502
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:30.840
run we've done so far.

1503
01:05:30.900 --> 01:05:34.380
We're off kids so little about what's going on on the screen.

1504
01:05:34.619 --> 01:05:40.380
Yeah, no, because it's so stupid and so mean spirited and it

1505
01:05:40.380 --> 01:05:42.360
doesn't arise from anything.

1506
01:05:42.420 --> 01:05:44.400
It's got nothing to do with any of the characters.

1507
01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:45.659
We don't learn anything.

1508
01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:48.119
There's more mean-spirited episode of Star Trek, unless.

1509
01:05:48.840 --> 01:05:50.699
It probably is.

1510
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:52.739
There probably is a DSN eyes run, surely.

1511
01:05:54.059 --> 01:05:59.340
Yeah, like 90s strike doesn't do very good with, uh, you know, like

1512
01:05:59.340 --> 01:06:00.179
the Star Trek.

1513
01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:03.059
Well, there's one that's very mean spirited, but it's brilliant, I

1514
01:06:03.059 --> 01:06:03.360
think.

1515
01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:04.019
Valiant.

1516
01:06:04.139 --> 01:06:05.940
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1517
01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:09.900
It takes all those idealistic, you know, Star Trek characters and

1518
01:06:09.900 --> 01:06:11.039
murders them all horribly.

1519
01:06:11.099 --> 01:06:14.099
Well, like I kind of like that because they're creeks.

1520
01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:15.599
Well, yeah, they are.

1521
01:06:15.659 --> 01:06:16.380
They are usual.

1522
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:20.880
There are usual sort of, it's series one, uh, TNG, you know?

1523
01:06:20.940 --> 01:06:23.280
If you go out and civilise the galaxy.

1524
01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:26.219
The finest crew, the finest crew.

1525
01:06:26.219 --> 01:06:26.940
Red squad.

1526
01:06:26.940 --> 01:06:27.659
Red squad.

1527
01:06:28.679 --> 01:06:34.019
But it's the, um, like I thought, no, the Battle to the Strong was

1528
01:06:34.019 --> 01:06:36.900
pretty mean-spirited, because it's like Nog, who is a nice person

1529
01:06:36.900 --> 01:06:39.539
not Nog, because it's Jake, who's a nice person.

1530
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:44.039
Can't cope in their shitty version of Mash that they create for

1531
01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:44.519
the episode.

1532
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:47.159
I love it.

1533
01:06:47.219 --> 01:06:48.179
I love it.

1534
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:50.219
I love our bleak kids and I love it how he acts it.

1535
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:51.719
Sarah often.

1536
01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:52.199
Yeah, great.

1537
01:06:52.260 --> 01:06:54.300
Yeah, he's good, but I just sort of think, well, there's nothing

1538
01:06:54.300 --> 01:06:56.699
wrong with actually bottling out of that.

1539
01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:57.239
Do you know what I mean?

1540
01:06:57.300 --> 01:06:59.039
Is the visitor quite well?

1541
01:06:59.099 --> 01:07:03.960
No, you've got to kill yourself in all of...

1542
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:08.280
It's kind of weird because it doesn't go anywhere.

1543
01:07:08.340 --> 01:07:11.159
I mean, the Ben remembers it.

1544
01:07:11.219 --> 01:07:14.699
The tone is lovely. like it's it's melancholic rather than

1545
01:07:14.699 --> 01:07:16.320
depressing.

1546
01:07:16.380 --> 01:07:19.980
Because it is, like, we do die. dies, but he dies.

1547
01:07:20.039 --> 01:07:23.219
He gets the chance to talk to this young woman who admires his

1548
01:07:23.219 --> 01:07:23.699
work.

1549
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:28.800
He's given happiness to, you know, people who've read the thing

1550
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:31.380
would be me knocking on your door.

1551
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:34.380
You are Nathan Bottomley, the podcaster, aren't you?

1552
01:07:34.860 --> 01:07:36.960
For Christ sake.

1553
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:40.860
But like, but that's beautiful.

1554
01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:41.820
Like, that's beautiful.

1555
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:45.360
Like it's got Jake loving his father, which is also sad and

1556
01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:46.739
beautiful and a thing.

1557
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:48.420
Oh, gorgeous, yeah.

1558
01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:50.039
Well, and it just looks beautiful.

1559
01:07:50.099 --> 01:07:52.980
Yeah, got a lovely garden outside and the sunlight coming in

1560
01:07:52.980 --> 01:07:55.920
through the windows and the music's gorgeous.

1561
01:07:55.980 --> 01:07:57.719
There's just none of that here at all, isn't there?

1562
01:07:57.780 --> 01:08:00.900
Well, no, but what do you get, like, you get the worst, Robert

1563
01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:03.539
kind of going, no, B'Elana, like, it's awful.

1564
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:04.860
Like, that's awful.

1565
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:07.079
Well, the cheesy thing.

1566
01:08:07.139 --> 01:08:10.139
You know, we've barely scratched the surface with dreadful rubber

1567
01:08:10.139 --> 01:08:11.699
dump McMill acting, you know.

1568
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:15.539
There's so many episodes that he gets, it's run, and we've only

1569
01:08:15.539 --> 01:08:16.979
done one or two, I swear.

1570
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:18.359
Oh, yeah.

1571
01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:19.859
We've done the worst.

1572
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:20.399
Yes, which is.

1573
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:22.680
Well, I don't know, you think the worst.

1574
01:08:22.739 --> 01:08:25.680
I think Alice might be worst.

1575
01:08:25.739 --> 01:08:27.539
It's been a while since I've seen Alice.

1576
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.539
I suppose it is an evil car that haunts him.

1577
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.100
That's quite fun.

1578
01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:33.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1579
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:36.239
It's actually, it was supposed to be this sort of really sexy

1580
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:40.199
sports car, you know, in human form, which you can't act at all.

1581
01:08:43.260 --> 01:08:45.060
God, I'm right.

1582
01:08:45.060 --> 01:08:46.560
If this does go in on the tag, right?

1583
01:08:46.619 --> 01:08:47.159
Any of this.

1584
01:08:47.220 --> 01:08:49.199
And I feel like it should because we're sort of talking about Star

1585
01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:49.859
Trek here.

1586
01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:51.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1587
01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:52.920
I would like to point out to anyone this thing.

1588
01:08:52.979 --> 01:08:55.500
We do actually like Star Trek.

1589
01:08:55.619 --> 01:08:56.819
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

1590
01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:59.039
I mean, part of the reason, like, that's what I said.

1591
01:08:59.100 --> 01:09:01.979
These are characters that we like that we tune in and watch and

1592
01:09:01.979 --> 01:09:05.279
we've got complaints to make about, you know, some of the acting

1593
01:09:05.279 --> 01:09:06.000
and stuff like that.

1594
01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:08.279
But broadly, we have fun hanging out with these people.

1595
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:11.100
And very quickly was horrible.

1596
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:12.420
That was just horrible.

1597
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:13.380
I don't want to watch that.

1598
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:17.819
Quickly recommend then. to the audience to hang around at the end

1599
01:09:17.819 --> 01:09:21.899
to hear you and me doing our untitled Star Trek project banter.

1600
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:25.739
Go and listen to the doomsday machine.

1601
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:31.199
Dharmok. um I mean, tacking into the wind, which we did recently.

1602
01:09:31.260 --> 01:09:33.960
Oh, actually, you were a little bit mean about that a couple of

1603
01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:34.319
times.

1604
01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:35.939
I'm trying to think of something you fully endorsed.

1605
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:38.220
Oh, but take me out to the hola suite.

1606
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:41.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah. counterpoints.

1607
01:09:41.159 --> 01:09:42.180
Yep.

1608
01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:45.720
Um, and then what was that, fabulous true episode of Discovery.

1609
01:09:45.779 --> 01:09:47.340
Do you remember?

1610
01:09:47.399 --> 01:09:49.319
Oh, yeah, to connect.

1611
01:09:49.380 --> 01:09:52.140
But to connect from discovery.

1612
01:09:52.199 --> 01:09:54.239
I mean, anything from Strange New Worlds that we covered.

1613
01:09:54.300 --> 01:09:54.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1614
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:57.180
Pretty much anything from lower decks.

1615
01:09:57.239 --> 01:09:58.859
A night in Sick Bay.

1616
01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:03.659
Yeah, all right.

1617
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:06.960
We were doing so well until then.

1618
01:10:07.020 --> 01:10:08.279
It's so much fun.

1619
01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:09.300
It's great.