WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:27:31

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we are doing what I think is perhaps the worst episode of Voyagers run.

3
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But it's a, well, it's pretty close to that.

4
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It's called Cause Oblivion.

5
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Which sounds great, right?

6
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Sounds wonderful.

7
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Yeah, it's the same course that we're all eventually on, I think.

8
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But it's season five, episode 18.

9
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It's sort of a loose sequel to Demon the previous year, and it is by the co-creator of Star Trek Discovery, Brian Fuller.

10
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An auspicious beginning.

11
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Yeah, he's learned his lesson since then, I think.

12
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And I really, really properly hate this.

13
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What do you think I hate is a strong word.

14
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No, no, I mean, accurate.

15
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Yeah, 0 yeah.

16
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I've been saying too, haven't I?

17
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I'm sorry, apathetic about this.

18
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I just have no feeling about it whatsoever.

19
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I watched the entire 45 minutes and then wondered why I had.

20
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That's how I left the episode going.

21
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Well, what was that all about?

22
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What impact does that have on anything?

23
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And I know Voyager never has any impact on anything ever.

24
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And there are no consequences in this show, but this is taking that to an extreme.

25
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Yeah, and like, I guess partly I'm embarrassed for the actors.

26
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Bless them.

27
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Because of the makeup and the scenes at the very end, and particularly Kate's makeup, which is really bad, but also Garrett and Jerry have to suffer some pretty horrific makeup as well.

28
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I think that's awful.

29
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I was confused because there were scenes where Kate Mulgrew was attempting to do a moat with, you know, great alacrity.

30
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Unfortunately, they've glued her mouth shut with this makeup.

31
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That's crazy. started talking out the side of her mouth, so I could not barely understand what she was trying to say.

32
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And they don't do it to any of the other actors.

33
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They have quite a different makeup job on.

34
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It's super embarrassing.

35
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It's Janeway's eye.

36
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It looks so awful.

37
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And so that's embarrassing.

38
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Like, I just think that's a career low.

39
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You know, like you have to think, she's saying, why the fuck am I even doing this job at this point?

40
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And so that's embarrassing.

41
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I think you did talk about this. one of those fabulous convention interviews, you know, where she is remarkably candid.

42
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Now, now the adventure's over and she can be honest and say things like if Brennan Bragger had more balls, we would have done something more interesting on Voyager and stuff like that.

43
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And she did say there was one where she had all this makeup slapped on.

44
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And it's her usual line of like, you know, they were testing my acting ability to its absolute fullest.

45
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I think this is one of the few times where she can't do it.

46
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No, yeah.

47
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No, it's dreadful. absolutely dreadful.

48
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But the other thing is, too, like, from one point of view, these characters aren't real and they're not the characters that we see on TV every week.

49
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Now, I don't find that view particularly persuasive because they're all played by the same actors and they do their shtick.

50
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In fact, the very 1st scene is absolutely dedicated to showing us that these people are the characters that we know.

51
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And so what we have is an episode where all of them catch a horrible disease and then slowly fail and die.

52
00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.460
And I kind of think, well, that wasn't fun.

53
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So what was the point of that?

54
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Like, I just don't want to watch that.

55
00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.020
That's literally no fun at all.

56
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That's absolutely fucking miserable.

57
00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:09.960
And I just sort of think, how am I to be entertained by this?

58
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But you remember as I was watching this last night?

59
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I'm sending you a series of questions about this going, well, all these people would duplicate it on the demon planet and none of them know how they're suddenly this much closer to Earth than the other boy, all of these questions about the premiere.

60
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I wasn't even watching the episode.

61
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I was just going, how?

62
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Why?

63
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What?

64
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Yeah.

65
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So Demon is not a highly regarded episode, but I did watch it as kind of research and I didn't think it was terrible.

66
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I thought it was was quite stupid, but the idea was very star trekky. looks more interesting than this one.

67
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Yeah, yeah.

68
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And what happens at the end is like super weird.

69
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So it's this sort of, um, they call it the silver blood in both episodes and it's, it's like mercury.

70
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It's a liquid.

71
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Yeah.

72
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Yeah, yeah, that exists in a sort of armour style pool on this planet.

73
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No, I've been great.

74
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A great silver armus coming out.

75
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Yeah, that's right.

76
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So what happens is for the 1st time they encounter sentient life forms and because they can duplicate life forms, they become sentient and start to experience sentience and they experience what the world is like around them, that their planet is beautiful.

77
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They experience all of these things, and just weirdly and generously, and in a way that doesn't make a great deal of sense, but whatever.

78
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Everyone on the crew decides to allow the silver blood to replicate them.

79
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It's the last shot they're all on the planet.

80
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It's they're all standing on the planet surface.

81
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Why did you go to leave?

82
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So how did we get from there to here?

83
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So we don't.

84
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And that's so that's a cheat because because the duplicate Harry and the duplicate Tom in that episode are definitely not Harry and Tom and don't think they're Harry and Tom.

85
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They have their memories, but they do know that they're from the planet and they know that they're the silver blast.

86
00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.720
And they're sort of suggested in the middle of demon, they're sort of like evil doppelgangers.

87
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I know they're not, but they're sort of...

88
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

89
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Yeah, yeah.

90
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Like that's a sort of very Star Trek idea and it is very weird and it's not completely pulled off and it's a bit crap and like whatever.

91
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The sort of B movie fun.

92
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Yeah, we like that stuff.

93
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Yeah, yeah.

94
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And it's Star Treky fun because it is, you know, like there's something symbolic about them, you know, allowing this new life form to be created, encountering a life form, they've inadvertently created, and giving it, um, giving it of themselves so that they can experience one another's lives and stuff.

95
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And they're not, they're creating duplicates that sort of look like them.

96
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But what they're really giving them is the ability to think and feel and so on.

97
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And that's not what we have here in Dima.

98
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What we have is instead, somehow the silver blood is created an entire ship, that they've forgotten that they're duplicates somehow, and they're heading off into space.

99
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And like, I think there's potential, potentially an interesting idea there.

100
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The ship is made from the silver blood.

101
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And so it does say...

102
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No, in this episode.

103
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And so, so when I say it's a loose sequel to demon, it's completely inconsistent with anything that we see in demon.

104
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Because it's got to make just drive it.

105
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It was only last year, for God's sake.

106
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Yeah, I know.

107
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So, in fact, it depends on what this episode is for.

108
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And I think there's a sense in which there's a mystery here.

109
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And I was trying to think as I watched it, given that you, watching it now, we know what the premise is, right?

110
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And we've seen it before.

111
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We know what the reveal is.

112
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But at what point does a naive viewer make the decision that this isn't the crew?

113
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And is that a thing?

114
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Is part of what the episode's doing is getting you to work out, what's happening here, in which case they cheat, in which case it's not a fair play mystery, because they change the premise of demon.

115
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You could never have guessed it was demon because it's nothing like what was... know the exact point.

116
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I know the point.

117
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It's that close-up on that dismal carpet that you've got behind you right there.

118
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Because our Captain Janeway would never fail to hoover her carpet.

119
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No, that's true.

120
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Oh, that's so terrible sure.

121
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It's so awful.

122
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The carpet.

123
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Thank God we don't have carpet anymore.

124
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I just want to sneeze just even looking at it.

125
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Like it's full of mites and just...

126
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The drama of the slow motion rights.

127
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Oh my god.

128
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So I think that I think what's happening here is that they're sort of gesturing towards talking about identity and there's a kind of sense in which this is going for sort of existentialism.

129
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I know that sounds fancy for something that is so shit.

130
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The gesture is so minimal.

131
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They've got nothing to say about any of that.

132
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And all they do is they use those ideas to create an episode that's just deeply unpleasant and not fun to watch.

133
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I would have had more fun with this if the crew were gone.

134
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What the hell?

135
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We're not Janeway and her crew and just behaved appallingly because they all knew they was going to die, you know?

136
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I mean, it would be miserable to watch again, but it's better than just watching them sit around, slowly having more latax slapped on their faces and just slowly dying.

137
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There's no B movie. that the script of that wasn't binned straight away.

138
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Do you know, there was a premise mooted about this, though, which I think would have been just awful if they'd have gone for it. far more watchable than this.

139
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And that is that the demon replicants end up.

140
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They get home.

141
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They get back to earth and then they start melting.

142
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So we got this great celebration, celebration, we've made it home fireworks and all of this and that boring Admiral Paris is there and everybody, you know, we love Bridge Barclays waving the flag.

143
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And then, yeah, and then we slowly realise in the true dramatic sense of irony that, unfortunately, this is not the Voyager crew, and it's a load of duty because that's awful.

144
00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:34.559
I mean, it is awful, but imagine how fun that would be to watch compared to this.

145
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

146
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But given that we never properly get to see them come home either, you know, that would be a bit tragic too.

147
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We just get to see a crap version of it.

148
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Well, look, I mean, I've got plenty to say, but maybe it's best to say it while we're watching this wretched thing.

149
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What do think?

150
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Oh, I'll just throw in one quote then before we go.

151
00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:54.419
Oh, okay.

152
00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:56.399
It's from Kenneth Miller.

153
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Um, you know, writer of many great Voyager triumph.

154
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There was a discussion about whether it was too bleak at the end.

155
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I had written a version where they actually get that time capsule out and the real Voyager does come along.

156
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The duplicate ship is gone, but they find the capsule.

157
00:11:13.980 --> 00:11:22.799
So, because my biggest complaint about this is at the end, where Voyager comes along and goes, well, what's that debris over there?

158
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Oh, well, guess whatever, no. resume course, Mr. Jakotay.

159
00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:28.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

160
00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:32.220
And you're like, okay, so this is having no emotional impact on anybody whatsoever.

161
00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.100
But actually, I mean, I don't know how you'd play that.

162
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I don't know how that last scene would go.

163
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It was like, oh, it appears it was us.

164
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You know?

165
00:11:40.500 --> 00:11:48.120
But at least they could be held accountable for the decision that they made, you know, in demon or something, just something.

166
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Yeah, but even that, I mean, they make a good decision in Demon, a weirdly generous and sort of improbable decision, which I thought was kind of weird and fun and Star Trek-y.

167
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Um, so they haven't done anything wrong.

168
00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:09.779
It could have been like, well, you know, we never knew that they would have created their own Voyager and gone off and all died in this horrible way.

169
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Yeah, that's stupid.

170
00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:12.419
Well, it's all stupid.

171
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Yeah, yeah.

172
00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.440
I mean, the episode's called course oblivion, right?

173
00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:25.200
And so having a memorial where they're not forgotten really sells short the actual title.

174
00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:27.120
So they have to be forgotten.

175
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Well, see, they've already done it this year in timeless where you had that alternative voyage and it crashed into the ice and then at the end, everything resets snowball, but of course it does because the older Harry manages to get the message out.

176
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Don't go to the ice planet, you're going to crash onto it.

177
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And then he sends the message, which the younger Harry listens to in the last scene and there's some emotional resonance to the whole thing.

178
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They could have done that here.

179
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They chose not to.

180
00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:56.159
Yeah.

181
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No, because that's not what the episode is saying.

182
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But what the episode is saying is quite ugly, I think.

183
00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:04.259
And what was he trying to say?

184
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If you're all going to die, just accept it and die horribly.

185
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No, I don't I don't think that's it, but I do think that there's something to be said for the idea that course oblivion is, in fact, the course that we all find ourselves on all the time right now.

186
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Oh.

187
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Yeah.

188
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Startling revelation.

189
00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:30.480
No, it's not a startling revelation and they don't have anything interesting to say about it. printing out 20 years ago. realise this.

190
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We all were.

191
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I refuse to believe it review.

192
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I sorry.

193
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All right.

194
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I think we're going in.

195
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Randy, in the history of Star Trek, has the title of an episode promised so much and delivered so little.

196
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Yeah, well, coarse oblivion.

197
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:50.279
Sounds great, doesn't it?

198
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.399
All right, I'll count it in.

199
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If you have to.

200
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

201
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:10.679
Oh, wedding. d, d, d, d, d, d, d.

202
00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:14.639
Now, look, you're going to be treated, Nathan, to your favourite thing on Voyager.

203
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.240
The banter is Garrett Wang playing the...

204
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.000
Garrett Wang playing the clarinet.

205
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You love the sort of witty line.

206
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The character beats.

207
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Voyager.

208
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Absolutely do.

209
00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:30.539
Look, we've started off with Neelix.

210
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:34.379
Are you sure this isn't supposed to be cooked about the rice are they thrown?

211
00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:35.580
That's kind of funny.

212
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:48.419
And I think that, you know, like, here's the good Robert giving, you know, making a pretty crappy line land and we are getting, like, this scene is all about them being themselves, isn't it?

213
00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.940
So is he a hologram, the doctor?

214
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Yes, yeah.

215
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:56.700
So they've managed to create the ship which has managed to create holograms.

216
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:57.720
Yeah, yeah.

217
00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:00.179
I kind of think he emulates the technology.

218
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.700
Yeah, and he's a meta fails.

219
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:03.960
And, like, that's Star Trek.

220
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:05.039
It's stupid. fine.

221
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:08.159
I think that would be okay if this kind of worked.

222
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:15.600
You know, what's sad is this is actually better than the actual wedding of Tom Banana Torres.

223
00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:17.220
I don't see the wedding.

224
00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:17.940
Do we?

225
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.759
I kind of like it they go off in that car, don't I?

226
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:21.840
And drive.

227
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:29.639
Yeah, they go off in the Delta Flyer at the end, we've just married on the, on the, on the back, at the, at the, um, end of drive.

228
00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:34.139
Um, and I like that, and I think it's because we've seen this.

229
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:40.200
I really like how they react to 7 catching the bouquet.

230
00:15:40.259 --> 00:15:41.580
I think that's really funny.

231
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.059
Like she catches it and says, what does it mean?

232
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.700
And I think the doctor says, oh, I'm just not going to tell you, you know, that's going to upset you.

233
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.340
No, but this is about the pain sticks.

234
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:57.899
Yeah, they're saving the pain sticks for the honeymoon, says Garrett Wang.

235
00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.179
Oh, yuck.

236
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:00.899
Einstein.

237
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.139
It's a joke, and don't deliver it like a joke.

238
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.059
No, it's terrible.

239
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.340
I think it's really terrible.

240
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.299
I did message you throughout this episode and say Garawag is a terrible actor.

241
00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:13.200
Oh yeah.

242
00:16:13.259 --> 00:16:15.720
But you heard that. dramatically.

243
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:17.940
The thing that you... are shockingly bad.

244
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:26.940
But the thing said just there, which are the worst words that you can hear at a wedding, which is the couple have prepared their own vows, like...

245
00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:29.039
You recently went to a wedding.

246
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.059
Was that the cakes?

247
00:16:30.299 --> 00:16:35.039
No, not really, no, I didn't have him, those vowels were fine.

248
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:37.139
But, 0 my god.

249
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.399
Oh, God.

250
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.179
Oh, the ring.

251
00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.220
Oh, Harry goes, oh, the ring.

252
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.620
Oh, crappy sitcom nonsense.

253
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.059
Awful.

254
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:54.000
But so they're not getting married and so does this tell us that this is not the real ship already?

255
00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:56.399
The fact that we open with them getting married.

256
00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:58.980
They're in a relationship, aren't they?

257
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.000
And they have been since the beginning of series four.

258
00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:10.980
But at this point, there should be a key indicator that these are not the real Voyager crew that they're actually making genuine character development here for these people.

259
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

260
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:13.380
That's right.

261
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:18.240
But to be fair, the Voyager, they do actually go through with it at the beginning of series 7.

262
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:24.539
At the end, when basically they really don't have to deal with the consequences too much, as usual, on 90s straight.

263
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.079
We just get a year. going on with B'lana's wig.

264
00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:32.579
Is that the other way that we know that it's not...

265
00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:34.079
Our crew.

266
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.680
Bilana's doing something different with her hair on this floor.

267
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:43.740
No, the way we know that it's not the Voyager crew is that even Kate Mulgrew can't salvage the episode.

268
00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:46.920
So clearly that's not our Kate Malpru there.

269
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:57.000
But there is something about this version of the captain where, like, you know, um, Kirk marries someone, doesn't he?

270
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.700
Uh, like, we've seen captains marry people before.

271
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:10.259
But there's something about this, you know, where they're creating this family because they're stranded and staff.

272
00:18:10.259 --> 00:18:14.519
Yeah, this, I just, I think the dialogue here is actually pretty funny.

273
00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:17.519
I do like this, but I don't like that. 7 catches it.

274
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.380
What?

275
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:25.319
No, no, I like I like the jokes around K 7 catching the bouquet because her being fish out of water is always fun.

276
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.819
I don't like the slow-mo in a second, which...

277
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.200
And it's Tim Ross who says you may not want to know, which I think is just awesome.

278
00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:36.539
Okay, now this is dreadful.

279
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:44.400
I wish for like slow motion should be used very judiciously. and this, what's it...

280
00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:50.819
It just reminds me that this is all very artificial, that suddenly we're watching these vowels and this sequence in slow-mo.

281
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.700
It's really trying to point out something, isn't it?

282
00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:56.160
But what is it that they're doomed?

283
00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:58.619
That they're doomed.

284
00:18:58.740 --> 00:18:59.819
This is a real...

285
00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:00.900
I don't know.

286
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:01.799
It's much entirely clear.

287
00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:04.019
There's slow motion and timeless as well.

288
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.000
The beginning, there's a huge celebration.

289
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:12.059
We've got this fabulous new warp core that can take us all these miles across space.

290
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:17.220
And that's like a moment of triumph. absolutely telling you why it's in slow mode, whereas here it's unsettling.

291
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.299
So that's what it's doing.

292
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:19.440
It's being unsettling.

293
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:19.920
I think.

294
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:25.980
And then, of course, we get the scene where it goes down into the Jeffreys tube, the rice they're throwing goes through the floor.

295
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:29.339
And we do lots of wibbly wobbly stuff. stuff.

296
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:35.880
The Demon Planet has done a perfect job of recapturing the Voyager title sequence here as well, for this Voyager.

297
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:36.299
Yeah.

298
00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:37.140
Yeah.

299
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.339
Beat for beat.

300
00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:44.519
So, in a sense, these are the Voyager characters, aren't they?

301
00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:46.680
They believe themselves to be.

302
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:52.440
Oh, now I know what you're talking about, but these are your voyages. analogy.

303
00:19:52.500 --> 00:20:01.200
Yeah, they have they have the memory of the Voyager characters until 10 months ago.

304
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.539
In what sense is it not there?

305
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.000
Like in one sense, are they not real?

306
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:09.299
Because they're not the characters I've been following all this time.

307
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.099
Well, they are versions of you.

308
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:12.539
You saw it.

309
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.579
They did all their usual shtick at the wedding.

310
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:20.339
They even say in the episode, you didn't exist more than a year ago.

311
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.140
But that's not true.

312
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.640
Do you know what I mean?

313
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.140
In a sense, that's not true.

314
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.480
And it doesn't matter what they are.

315
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:29.700
And this is a thing, right?

316
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:41.099
that that we have undergone that same sort of, like as people, you know, where we thought we were the centre of the universe.

317
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.319
We thought that we were specially created by God.

318
00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:50.039
We thought that we were designed and that our lives had a particular purpose and all of that sort of stuff.

319
00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:56.880
And existentialism is, no, none of that's actually real, and you have to find your purpose.

320
00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:59.700
There's none that sort of imposed on you from the outside.

321
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.799
And we are different from what we thought we were.

322
00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:03.779
That's not true, people.

323
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:05.099
We're doing it right.

324
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:06.059
We found our purpose.

325
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:09.240
To mock Star Trek relentlessly.

326
00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:10.440
Exactly.

327
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:14.460
So, so, so something has changed.

328
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.079
They discover something about themselves.

329
00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:23.880
They don't, they aren't who they think they are, right, but they are still in a sense those people.

330
00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:34.259
And so one of the objections that I have to this episode is that it's just watching our regular crew members all die of the plague and then the ship exploding and that's not fun to watch.

331
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:46.140
And it, and they're even more our regular crew than the premise of the show because it is just, uh, the medium Robert and Kate playing these characters, which is exactly what they do every week.

332
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.140
This is a real difference between you and me, isn't it?

333
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:56.940
Because these hologram enterprise characters and these weird demon planet Voyager crew, I just have no interest in them at all.

334
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.819
Yeah, but, you know, they are our characters.

335
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:01.259
Not to me they're not.

336
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.119
They are to you, but they're not to me.

337
00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.779
They are just inferior duplicates covered in latex.

338
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:10.259
No, you see, the inferior duplicates every week.

339
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:14.400
They're just Kate and Jason and the worst Robert.

340
00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:16.619
Did you see who directed this episode?

341
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:22.799
So this is Anderson Williams. who was Potsey in Happy Days.

342
00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:24.119
Obviously.

343
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.680
That's a great bit of trivia.

344
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:28.680
It's like, and he was great in happy days.

345
00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:29.339
He was really good.

346
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.819
And he does, it's only a paper movie.

347
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.099
He does brilliantly, may I say?

348
00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:37.079
And statistical probabilities.

349
00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:39.000
He directed demon?

350
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:39.839
Okay.

351
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.099
He actually directed Demon.

352
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:46.319
He did real life, which is a much better episode than I think people give it credit for.

353
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:49.200
The gift.

354
00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:51.240
Oh, it's great, yeah.

355
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.019
Yeah.

356
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.220
I think that's all of them.

357
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.140
He doesn't do a huge number of them, but he does.

358
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.319
The gift is how you genuinely do Voyager character drama.

359
00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:58.920
You know?

360
00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:02.700
One, you just focus on the women because they're the best in Voyager.

361
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:03.000
Yes.

362
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.700
Two, you know, it's about the real crew.

363
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.299
Sorry.

364
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.859
And three, it has actual fucking consequences.

365
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.599
Kez leaves and 7 joins.

366
00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:13.380
Yeah.

367
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:17.819
So so here, I think, what's super interesting.

368
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:22.799
And I like this is that they've developed a way to get home and they expect to get home in 2 years.

369
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:25.619
And I think at this point we know that it's not them.

370
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:27.480
There's enough to adding up.

371
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:37.799
That could have been the payoff for this, is that they managed to send the information to the other ship and then they've got a way of getting home in 2 years.

372
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:38.940
What have we got?

373
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:40.319
Series 5, series 7.

374
00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:40.859
There you go.

375
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:46.680
Yeah, yeah, but I I think that kind of wrecks the show a bit in a way.

376
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:48.539
It would be something.

377
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.440
Yeah, but that's what series breaking about it, isn't it?

378
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.579
That's how you know it's not real.

379
00:23:53.640 --> 00:24:04.019
It is, firstly, the wedding because we never do those sorts of changes of the status quo on Voyager, and we certainly don't do them so thoroughgoingly just in the teaser.

380
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:08.099
You know, you would never just deal with their wedding in the teaser and when it happens.

381
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.160
Yeah, for Dax's wedding's right at the end and it's a big affair, you know?

382
00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:12.839
Yeah, yeah.

383
00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:16.319
And then here they're about to get home.

384
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:21.299
And like I, I like this idea.

385
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:31.200
And what works for me, I think, is that's the reason that they're coming apart because they think they're human and they think their ship is real.

386
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:38.279
They have run the modelling and their enhanced warp drive won't harm the ship.

387
00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:43.799
But it will harm whatever this is, and that's why they die.

388
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:50.039
You know what's very old is when, you know, obviously, because of this, things start melting a bit.

389
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:50.400
Yeah.

390
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:58.380
It takes ages for people to melt and the food starts melting and all sorts starts melting and then Bilardatorius only starts melting.

391
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:00.839
And it's like, oh, well what's wrong with her?

392
00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:01.980
We're going to do all these tests.

393
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:13.500
And no one makes the link, you know, that the whole thing is basically, you know, one of those, what do you call them, those real-time Jesus Christ, you know, when you watch flowers wilting?

394
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:14.579
It's basically that happening.

395
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

396
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:17.700
In real time.

397
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:19.140
Like, yeah.

398
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:23.640
Yeah, so, like, she's spotting it now.

399
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:32.039
And it, and so in a sense, they're doing a better job of a voyage, a better job being the Voyager crew than the normal crew.

400
00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:32.759
Oh, damning.

401
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:34.079
Are they?

402
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:38.460
Like, Tom and Belana have married, managed to get married.

403
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:42.180
They seem to have solved the strategy in the Delta Quadrant problem.

404
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:43.319
You know what, right?

405
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:44.940
Lana's doing something different with her hair.

406
00:25:45.480 --> 00:26:02.940
When the shit hits the fan with the normal Voyager crew, yeah. and it's they're on the verge of dying, you've got Janeway on the bridge like in year of hell, going, going to hell, I'm crushing the ship, or in the fabulous deadlock, where she goes, gentlemen, welcome to the bridge and then blows up the ship.

407
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:04.019
It is.

408
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.779
She just sits down in her chair, melts and dies, you know?

409
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:07.980
Yeah, it's so.

410
00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:10.500
They don't do everything there. than the normal voyager.

411
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.980
No, but at this point they are doing a better job of being the crew.

412
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:20.640
And so, but then this sort of horrible thing happens and they all discover they're going to die.

413
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.880
And spoiler alert, we are all going to die.

414
00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:25.740
That's a thing that's going to happen.

415
00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:29.039
And there's no escaping that.

416
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.259
And eventually people die enough forgotten.

417
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:33.000
Sorry, everyone, all right?

418
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:33.900
Yeah, yeah.

419
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:39.119
You guys, you'll be fine. as much as you can, all right?

420
00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:40.200
Yeah, yeah.

421
00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:45.960
So, so, I mean, that's the thing that this is saying, but why is that fun to watch?

422
00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:47.339
I'm trying to forget about that.

423
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:48.900
You know, like...

424
00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:53.160
Oh, you obviously, you can't tell stories about dying.

425
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:57.720
But not it's such a boring and bleak way as this.

426
00:26:57.779 --> 00:26:59.519
Yeah, well, that's it.

427
00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:04.559
And then everybody died and no one remembered who they were and it's as if they'd never existed.

428
00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:12.420
And you just sort of think, well, maybe it would be better to talk about how you can create meaning for yourself.

429
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.900
The meaning doesn't have to be absolute.

430
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.799
It is a thing that people create for themselves.

431
00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:26.460
And so you can have an effect on the world, even though you're going to die and be.

432
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:26.819
Exactly.

433
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.039
So why when they discovered they're all going to die?

434
00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:32.400
Do they all just sort of stop and go, oh, well, we're all going to die.

435
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:36.240
Instead of just doing something meaningful with the time they've got left.

436
00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:44.460
In fact, Janeway is the one who sort of says, why don't we go home to earth because who knows?

437
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:45.539
Do you know what I mean?

438
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.000
Like maybe we're what's left of the Voyager cruise.

439
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:50.640
You know, bleeding into the scripts here.

440
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:51.359
Yeah, yeah.

441
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:53.160
And that's not a dumb idea.

442
00:27:53.220 --> 00:28:04.380
Like her idea of saying, well, you know, because I'm different from what I thought I was, my values and goals and ideals are stupid.

443
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:06.480
Like why is that an automatic decision?

444
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:12.359
Well, then someone, does somebody say then, oh, no, because if we go back to Earth, they'll lock us up as inferior copies.

445
00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:14.460
But actually, maybe that won't happen.

446
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:21.359
The only place it would be awkward is after endgame when the other crew comes home and there's 2 of everybody hanging around.

447
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:26.099
Yeah, although that might make a good telly movie afterwards with all these duplicants of everybody.

448
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:33.480
Yeah, so here at this point, we know that they're all doomed to die.

449
00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:36.839
Well, we knew that when it was called course oblivion.

450
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:46.079
I just think everyone would have more of a reaction to the fact that they're not who they thought they were, and there would be more pushback against that, you know?

451
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:48.539
Is there everyone just going about their daily routines?

452
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:49.920
Yeah.

453
00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:54.599
But in a way, as I said, they are who they thought they were.

454
00:28:54.660 --> 00:28:59.579
Because what makes you you?

455
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:00.180
you know what I mean?

456
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:01.319
Like what makes...

457
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:01.920
At this point.

458
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.160
Okay, even if we accept that, they are who they say they were.

459
00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:11.279
Now they're not living the lives that they otherwise would have, which their other career, because they're not melting.

460
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:15.900
So at this point, this is where the divergence happens and we can actually well fuck this shit.

461
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:21.720
I'm not going to be an ensign on Voyager standing here with my pad repeating what the computer's saying.

462
00:29:21.779 --> 00:29:25.319
I'm actually going to go and have a bit of fun in the 10 hours I've got left to live.

463
00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:26.640
But we don't get any of that.

464
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:30.119
Just Tom Paris. being a bit grumpy asshole.

465
00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:31.559
Why should we listen to the captain?

466
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:33.420
Yeah, yeah.

467
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:38.039
And that's like, that's not pleasant to watch either because he just comes across as an arsehole.

468
00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:42.779
It's like, yeah, sure, dude, your wife died, but like you just have to be horrible to everyone now.

469
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:46.380
Like people who deal with loss in a gracious way.

470
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.220
We admire those people and people who are just pricks about it.

471
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:52.200
You're going to be following her shortly.

472
00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.119
So you may as well enjoy the time you got left.

473
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:55.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

474
00:29:55.740 --> 00:30:03.539
Oh, this is so, this is so funny because not only do you get another example of this sort of, you know, a lot of talk to me sort of acting that he does.

475
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.960
He sort of goes, he can't even say no, Kenny.

476
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:10.680
He goes, no, it's so bad.

477
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:20.279
I was so very aware of the ill camera shot because Roxanne Dawson is very visibly breathing throughout the entire scene.

478
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:23.579
Maybe I want to move the camera.

479
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:29.640
Right, okay, because now you're giving this job to the worst, Robert.

480
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:43.259
Um, and so he has to do grief at the loss of his wife, and you just sort of think if it had been the other way round, and we're not fridging her because she's a woman and what matters is how a man feels about.

481
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:44.279
Do you know what I mean?

482
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:52.079
If he had died and she'd felt sad about that, that would have been a lot better because he's just, she's just a vastly better actor than he is.

483
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.519
Even if it's just been Robert, the doctor, what's his name?

484
00:30:56.579 --> 00:30:58.500
Robert Picardo.

485
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:00.299
Yeah, he's the doctor, so he should be here.

486
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:02.460
Can't he just act this thing out with her?

487
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:03.720
No one else can come in.

488
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:04.680
She's infectious.

489
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:05.579
Let me do the acting.

490
00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:08.160
Yeah, that's right.

491
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:10.799
So this is just miserable to watch.

492
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.400
And it's the same complaint that I made about threshold.

493
00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:18.660
Like threshold is stupid, but that doesn't rule it out.

494
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:21.660
What rules are now is it's just fucking unpleasant.

495
00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:24.660
Like it's just... the ending with the babies and we love that.

496
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:25.680
Yeah that's awesome.

497
00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:32.220
But the, like, this makeup, I've got to say, is already intolerably ugly, this makeup.

498
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.319
And we haven't even started yet.

499
00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:35.579
No.

500
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:41.099
Like laws coming out of their noses, but...

501
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:42.779
It's so bad.

502
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:49.079
I'd love to have, had a chat with the actors, done a, no, no, Starburst interview with them on set when they were doing no sleep.

503
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:51.359
Oh, and Kate.

504
00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:53.880
Like, Jesus Christ, I'm so embarrassed, okay?

505
00:31:54.539 --> 00:32:01.380
Visually, the worst is Jerry Ryan, the most beautiful woman on this planet. who they can make.

506
00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:02.460
Look, absolutely.

507
00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:06.119
Gary Wang is a very beautiful man and he looks awful.

508
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:08.039
He just looks hideous.

509
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.700
But the makeup they put on Jerry Ryan. that sort of off green.

510
00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:13.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

511
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.819
Garrett's got that as well.

512
00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:16.740
And it's super shiny and stuff.

513
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.359
It's like deeply unpleasant.

514
00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:20.579
I mean, it's supposed to be, right?

515
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:26.039
But like, who thought that was a good idea?

516
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:27.779
Who's doing this to these?

517
00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:29.700
I thought that would be an enjoyable watch.

518
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:31.319
Yeah, that's right.

519
00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:32.279
That's right.

520
00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:33.420
So she's dead.

521
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:35.099
Naked eye.

522
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:44.759
I believe this is an appropriate moment to say to you that I did, in fact, go looking for viewer reviews of course oblivion.

523
00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:54.539
And actually the consensus, because there's a couple of YouTube reviews of this episode, both highly positive about what a tragedy and drama this episode is.

524
00:32:54.599 --> 00:33:02.519
But in the comments, people go, oh, one of my favourites, you know, brings me to tears every time. stunning makeup.

525
00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:03.599
That's what I was reading.

526
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:07.140
No, it's so ugly and so unpleasant.

527
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.259
And all of these horrible things happen to people for kind of no reason.

528
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.660
And I think I was saying this to you before.

529
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.480
All you need is a fucking typewriter to create this.

530
00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:17.460
Like, there's nothing ironic.

531
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:18.720
They don't bring it on themselves.

532
00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:19.980
Do you know what I mean?

533
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:21.960
Like there's no last minute thing.

534
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:24.240
They all just catch a plague and then die.

535
00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:30.000
And you can think, well, like, that's not tragedy in any sort of sense that Aristotle would understand.

536
00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:37.920
It's just a bunch of fucking ugly things happen to happening to people that we kind of like that we're tuning in to watch every week.

537
00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:38.759
It's miserable.

538
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.359
Did you see those clamps going up over Belada then?

539
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:44.880
The director finally realised you could see her breathing.

540
00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:46.500
Get the clothes up, Twig.

541
00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:58.440
I do love this big screen on the set, you know, the big screen where we'd, so this, the demon planet is one of our more interesting missions according to the medium robin here.

542
00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:04.619
Starloin made me howl because it's still pretty mediocre, you know?

543
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.440
And this is, as you know, Bob.

544
00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:17.340
Like, it is absolutely the medium Robert telling Tuvok exactly what happened even though. ironically, you know, one of not the 3 bobs in the show.

545
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.139
Yeah, that's right.

546
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:19.739
That's right.

547
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.500
It's bomb actually saying, look at poor Roxanne.

548
00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:25.679
She looks a bit like a reptile doesn't she?

549
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:27.300
It's dreadful.

550
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:30.000
And so this is where they realise it.

551
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:38.099
And actually, one of the things I think that you're meant to get too. is that they talk about a few recent adventures which are nothing at all like what we've had.

552
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:39.300
Do you know what I mean?

553
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:43.079
Like they mentioned these things that happened to them and that haven't happened in any episodes.

554
00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:49.679
And it's only when they go back to the demon planet thing that they're talking about a real episode.

555
00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:56.159
I believe if he injects her with a dichromite catalyst, she might start...

556
00:34:56.219 --> 00:34:56.880
Here we go.

557
00:34:56.940 --> 00:34:57.840
Oh, look at that.

558
00:34:57.900 --> 00:34:58.860
Like, why are you doing that?

559
00:34:58.920 --> 00:34:59.639
But you know what?

560
00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:05.039
You know, you were saying how people could sort of react to this sort of stuff in a more dramatic way than we get.

561
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:10.800
You know, one person could if pseudo was still on the ship, he could be like, my God, get me that dichromic catalyst.

562
00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:12.659
I'm going to go around melting everybody, you know?

563
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:13.500
Melting everyone.

564
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.900
Even that would be more fun.

565
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:18.179
Oh my god.

566
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.340
The way tumulk delivers that line, Depham.

567
00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:22.500
We are all duplicates.

568
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:26.280
And then you get obviously the sort of end of scene sting.

569
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:30.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and you get the medium Robert looking kind of upset.

570
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:35.519
I actually like the way that Tuvok delivers it and I'm glad they gave that line to a good actor, you know.

571
00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:39.420
I'm glad Bob Picardo gets to say, behold, the primordial soup.

572
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.980
By the way, we're all gonna die.

573
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:49.260
Well, they should have just hang a lantern on it, though, and had one line go.

574
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.860
You know, it's funny how we all forgot that we were from this planet.

575
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:53.699
I do say it.

576
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.840
They do say that.

577
00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:55.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

578
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:56.820
No, they say it.

579
00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:00.179
She goes, I've got no memory of being a copy, blah, blah, blah.

580
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:01.980
You got Janeway's memories.

581
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:07.800
They were duplicated too. the real voyage left where you began to forget we were duplicates.

582
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:09.000
And that's stupid.

583
00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:11.460
That's nothing like what demon says and it's cheating.

584
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:15.179
So if this is a fair play mystery, if we're supposed to...

585
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:16.320
No, no, it makes no sense.

586
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:28.980
And the, and it, and it, it kind of retrospectively spoils demon, which of course it doesn't because you can watch demon and enjoy it or hate it or whatever you like without this affecting it.

587
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:30.900
It doesn't actually change demon in any way.

588
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:42.780
But it's just a bit crappy, if the mystery matters, if we're supposed to work out what it is, then this is cheating because the demon wasn't like that.

589
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.639
Did they decide on the planet, oh, you know what?

590
00:36:44.699 --> 00:36:46.619
Pull up some Voyager schematics, right?

591
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:48.420
Let's make that out of the goo.

592
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:49.019
Here we go.

593
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:49.559
Yep.

594
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.500
And then... purpose.

595
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:59.579
Oh, well, we're just going to go off and boyish the stars like the other crew and then hopefully we won't run into them at any point.

596
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.579
No, because they think they're real now at this point.

597
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:06.119
They, so, so their experience, they were doing all of that.

598
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:11.099
They must still have remembered, you know, that they are duplicates on this player.

599
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:15.119
It has to be at some point after they've gone on the ship and they're off into space.

600
00:37:15.179 --> 00:37:19.079
Yeah, you can't push it too much because it falls to peace.

601
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:20.820
Surely they didn't all forget at the same time.

602
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:24.179
Like, people can't, what are you talking about?

603
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:25.260
We're from a demon planet.

604
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:28.800
Oh, you know, none of it makes anything.

605
00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:32.400
They're doing it to make they do whatever they need to do to make the episode work.

606
00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:33.239
Oh, no.

607
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:34.559
Poor Kate.

608
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:37.199
She's starting to get...

609
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.099
She's getting the makeup.

610
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:41.880
Do you think the makeup here is worse than threshold?

611
00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:44.099
I don't think anything's worse than threshold.

612
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:49.260
Yeah, again, that's ugly as well, but at least it's only the worst, Robert, who gets it.

613
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:51.480
At least no one's puking up their tongues in this though.

614
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:52.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

615
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.179
But here it's the entire crew.

616
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:56.760
You know, it's ugly to look at and it's everywhere.

617
00:37:56.820 --> 00:38:01.199
That poor woman in the band. in the back.

618
00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:04.260
Yeah, she's only a day player.

619
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:05.519
She got covered in latex.

620
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:07.199
Yeah, I saw that.

621
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:09.360
So Kate's right here.

622
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:15.059
She's expressing my view on what's going on here, that her feelings are real.

623
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.219
Like, why are her feelings not real?

624
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:36.780
Why, why, so her subjective experience is, she remembers everything of her childhood, everything up until a year ago, 10 months ago, like she has exactly the same memories as our Kate, and then it diverges a bit, and then suddenly she discovers she's not real.

625
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:44.579
And so her experiences, I've been a real, Catherine Janeway, I'm real, and now I discover that I'm just this goo thing.

626
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:45.840
What do I do?

627
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:47.400
Do know what I mean?

628
00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:49.920
The real Catherine Janeway is just made of meat.

629
00:38:49.980 --> 00:38:51.300
Like, do you know what I mean?

630
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:52.800
It's not what you're made of.

631
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:56.340
To take this line of reasoning to its conclusion then.

632
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:58.860
So you like the voyage crew, right, on the whole?

633
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

634
00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:01.019
Right?

635
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:07.980
So then you like these people because you believe these are the Voyager Prue and you are watching these people slowly die throughout this episode.

636
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.559
So why aren't you incredibly moved by all this?

637
00:39:10.619 --> 00:39:18.960
Because it's just stupid and like manipulative and it doesn't land. like none of it's real.

638
00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:22.500
Like they all just die of a stupid space. real.

639
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:27.239
None of what happens to them is real because they just die of a dumb space disease.

640
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:28.139
Do you know what I mean?

641
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:29.880
Like that's not tragedy.

642
00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:32.400
Like someone catches a disease and dies.

643
00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:35.340
That's sad, but it's not tragedy.

644
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.079
And this is a TV show.

645
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:37.800
It's not real life.

646
00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:42.420
Like you could get sad if lots of people caught in disease and died and they were real.

647
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:48.539
But if all of the characters in your show called a disease and died, you'd be going, what the fuck happened in the writer's room?

648
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:49.320
What's going on here?

649
00:39:49.380 --> 00:39:51.300
can't be very sad though.

650
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:56.699
Because I don't know if you remember the quickening where they've got that terrible disease blighted planet and they're all dying.

651
00:39:56.760 --> 00:40:00.119
And Bashir gets very close to that lovely lady of Corya.

652
00:40:00.179 --> 00:40:02.639
And then she dies at the end of the episode.

653
00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:15.539
But of course, because he's been putting all the drugs, which he thinks is going to cure it, all goes into a uterus, the baby comes out cured, and it's not only satisfying, but it's emotionally resonant as well, it offers hope for the future.

654
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:18.780
All the things this episode is refusing to.

655
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:21.420
We're deliberately choosing not to do.

656
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:23.760
I'm saying it's called course oblivion.

657
00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:32.880
It absolutely, like just mean spiritedly refuses to give them a win at all. those flowers and everything they try doesn't work.

658
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:36.539
Are those flowers supposed to be wilting like that because the ship's dying?

659
00:40:36.659 --> 00:40:38.039
I don't know.

660
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:43.860
It looks like, you know, I sometimes put out flowers and it's like that day's sort of sale by date on them and they're all a bit...

661
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:45.239
It's what they look like.

662
00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:48.539
I think it's supposed to be a visual clue that the ship sort of melting.

663
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:49.320
Maybe.

664
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.139
I could be reading far too much into this.

665
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.860
Well, but look how bad this scene is as well.

666
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:59.940
So she's going to try and get them home.

667
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.480
Like this, like I just...

668
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.460
There's no tribe in any of the performances.

669
00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:09.840
Kate Mulgrew is usually vital and alive in her performance, you know?

670
00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:11.519
She just gives up in this.

671
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.260
Because there's nothing real about the situation they're in.

672
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:19.320
So imagine you discover that you're a goo person.

673
00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:21.000
What do you do with that?

674
00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:22.860
What do you do with that information?

675
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:25.320
You know, what, is it, is it wrong?

676
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:26.400
You're asking me that question?

677
00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:27.300
Yeah.

678
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:34.559
If I discovered I was a goo person and not, in fact, the real Joe Ford, I'll probably go looking for the real Joe Ford.

679
00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:36.659
He's pretty hot, you know, we can have a lot of fun.

680
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.059
Yeah, there's always that, isn't there?

681
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:40.079
You could do that.

682
00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:43.739
But, um, but, like, what's the right thing to do?

683
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.880
We having an argument here.

684
00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:50.280
He thinks we should go back to the Y planet, the demon class planet from last year's episode.

685
00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:52.739
She thinks we should continue on our mission.

686
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.820
Who's right?

687
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:54.539
I don't know.

688
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:55.920
How do I even decide that?

689
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:57.780
So what's, what's, you know?

690
00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:00.360
It's not analogous to anything in our life.

691
00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:01.920
That's true.

692
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:04.199
Using Star Trek can do this quite well, can't they?

693
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:06.420
We're sort of metaphor that we can buy into.

694
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:07.679
But yeah.

695
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:28.199
And like the nearest there is to a possible reading of this where it's kind of like we aren't who we thought we were, but we have these memories and ideas and thoughts and the things that Kate was saying before, and those things are real, you know, those things, those things are real, those things matter, even if we aren't who we thought we were.

696
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:35.579
And I think there's something there, but it doesn't go anywhere, and we don't learn anything from it, and this is ugly.

697
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:36.360
Look at this.

698
00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:39.780
And it just has no impact on our crew at all.

699
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:41.699
That's such an oversight.

700
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:45.360
They were right to have that argument in the writer's room about the ending.

701
00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:46.920
They made the wrong call.

702
00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:55.679
Well, I think thematically if they wanted to create a nasty, ugly episode, then this ending is the right call.

703
00:42:55.739 --> 00:42:57.719
That's what they were going for.

704
00:42:57.780 --> 00:43:00.420
I think they think this is high drama.

705
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:05.039
They were. they were going, you know, they're so cruel to this crew.

706
00:43:05.099 --> 00:43:07.800
I don't think they're just trying to be deliberately cruel.

707
00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:10.139
I think we are supposed to feel for these people.

708
00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:12.659
That's that's the idea.

709
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:19.800
And by the end of it, you know, the irony that they dole died before the other Voyager crew came along, the ultimate tragedy.

710
00:43:19.860 --> 00:43:21.300
Their deaths have no purpose.

711
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.639
It's supposed to move us to tears.

712
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.260
Yeah, no, that's stupid.

713
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:26.280
And look at this.

714
00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:36.360
How can they not be the real Voyager crew, if they're meeting a group of intransigent aliens who want to get in their way for no reason.

715
00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:39.719
Like, that's classic voyage, and they kind of go, yes, that's right.

716
00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:40.860
We are the Voyager crew.

717
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:42.900
This bullshit happens to them every week.

718
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.360
I'll be saying, are we still doing this shit, really?

719
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.579
where none of us are real.

720
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:58.139
Well, I mean, no, but like here they're trying to go down to that planet because they think it's an environment that they can survive in more easily that it'll stop their degradation.

721
00:43:58.199 --> 00:43:59.940
And so this is...

722
00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:02.460
In the same breath that Tom Paris is, you know, token objections.

723
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:03.539
Why should we listen to her?

724
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:09.960
Yeah, take that to it saying, have a riot, have the Kruger, just make, just do this with some passion.

725
00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:15.119
Or just don't do this, I think, because all of it's so hardhearted, isn't it?

726
00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:18.780
I've never seen people die so somnambulistically.

727
00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:20.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

728
00:44:20.699 --> 00:44:29.159
But I don't think having a being fired, you know, where every, you know, like, why is Tom such a prick here?

729
00:44:29.219 --> 00:44:30.599
I think he always is.

730
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:32.039
He's not actor.

731
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:32.579
I think that's it.

732
00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:34.980
But is that is that what we want?

733
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:36.480
It's supposed to be like the rebel, isn't he?

734
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.619
Well, but he's supposed to be the character that we like, isn't he?

735
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.960
Because he's kind of cool and he likes the 20th century and it all fails horribly his dream.

736
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.159
Did he ever call, Nathan?

737
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:49.980
No, no, but I think the writers think he probably is.

738
00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:52.860
I think he's like the closest to like a jock on the show, don't they?

739
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:53.219
You know?

740
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.019
It's a bit of swagger about him.

741
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:56.820
Exactly, exactly.

742
00:44:57.059 --> 00:44:59.519
So, but why does he do that?

743
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:00.659
Why does he react that way?

744
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.039
Because B'lana's dead?

745
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.460
Well, like every, you know, heaps of people are dying around here.

746
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.139
He's the one being the prick about it.

747
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.119
Like what, you know, like what?

748
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:14.340
This could be the time for like the marquee mutiny, you know, I'm doing this.

749
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:20.519
What is, but what's Tom proposing here, that we just kill all the people on board this ship so we can land?

750
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:22.679
So does that mean we're doing that?

751
00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:24.000
Paris is an asshole all along.

752
00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:26.940
If this is exactly the same as the Voyager Cruise?

753
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:27.360
Yeah.

754
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:30.900
Yeah, if anything, if like anything bad happens to him.

755
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:33.059
If his wife dies, it's like, all bets are often.

756
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:34.559
I think we should just murder a bunch of people.

757
00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:36.059
Like, what's that?

758
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:41.219
I think they're trying to justify him being demoted earlier on in the season in that ocean planet episode.

759
00:45:41.340 --> 00:45:44.159
Oh, that horrible makeup on her face.

760
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:48.960
Even Robert Beltran.

761
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:49.860
Oh, no.

762
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:51.599
No, he's got terrible makeup too.

763
00:45:51.659 --> 00:45:54.420
I heard, though, that bit. over her eyes.

764
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.039
Oh, it's dreadful.

765
00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:57.719
It's dreadful.

766
00:45:57.780 --> 00:45:59.880
Who thought this was good?

767
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:01.139
Do you know what it looks like?

768
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:06.840
You know, because like I saw somebody have a stroke at work once and their eyes sort of went lazy like that.

769
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:08.760
It's really horrible.

770
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.719
Yeah.

771
00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:10.619
Yeah.

772
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.000
Yeah.

773
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:14.820
Let's look at our situation objectively here.

774
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:15.360
Okay.

775
00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:18.420
Let's be objective about this crazy situation.

776
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:23.099
So, I mean, also, here we go.

777
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:24.840
We're talking about the marquee stuff now.

778
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:28.019
He's saying, look, I've decided to do this because I thought we were the real crew.

779
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:28.679
Now we're not.

780
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.320
But I mean, that kind of makes...

781
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:49.260
Yeah, I mean, it makes sense in that if they're going to stay alive, they have to do something different from what the Voyager crew would have to do, yeah, um, so they, the facts of the matter have changed the situation enough that what they need to do is something different.

782
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:50.820
And Janeway needs to realise that.

783
00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:58.739
She doesn't need to, like, kill people or, you know, compromise her principles because they're her principles and they still matter even if she's a goo person, you know.

784
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:08.699
But you know, like when when these sort of dramatic crux of the episode is, do we just keep doing what we've always been doing or do we turn around and go back to where we were a year ago?

785
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:12.360
I feel as if we've gone up a blind alley with this episode.

786
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:14.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

787
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:18.659
Because neither option is interesting when it's about these melting people.

788
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:20.579
No, that's right.

789
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:25.320
But, like, and home isn't earth, like, in what sense I know he's going to die.

790
00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:28.980
That's right. you know, Did you feel anything when he died?

791
00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:30.000
Because I didn't.

792
00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:31.860
No, because it's just another...

793
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:34.199
I mean, I didn't feel anything when anyone died.

794
00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:35.159
No.

795
00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:45.900
And it's not because they're not real and because they're every bit as real as they are every week, it's the same actors doing the same shit, you know, like on the same sets.

796
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:47.519
It's what we're used to seeing.

797
00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:51.119
It's just that all of this is so bullshit.

798
00:47:51.179 --> 00:48:02.099
These scenes now where she sits down in the chair in a minute, just sort of sort of relaxes into the chair and the terrible makeup and her voice is flat and I just feel like Kate Mulgra has given up.

799
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.340
Yeah, they're not pulling this shit on.

800
00:48:05.460 --> 00:48:09.659
They're not making Tim Russ wear horrible goo makeup, are they?

801
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:17.760
I just feel like she, by this point in this production schedule in this season, we're about 2 thirds through now, and she's got this grizzly makeup on her face.

802
00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:19.739
Kate Margaret has gone, oh, enough.

803
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.199
I'll phone it in for the rest of the episode.

804
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:23.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

805
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:25.559
It's not even supposed to be me anyway.

806
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:26.760
So...

807
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:31.260
Well, and no one else, like no one else gets makeup.

808
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.260
Like, they all get makeup that makes them look stupid.

809
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:35.159
Right?

810
00:48:35.219 --> 00:48:44.099
But none of them gets makeup that actually obscures their features and makes it hard for them to, you know, like visibly express themselves.

811
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:48.059
And these close-ups ugly and unpleasant, and she's got the thing over her eye.

812
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:53.280
She can still, you know, do basically anything that she needs to do with her face.

813
00:48:53.340 --> 00:49:02.579
But later on, it's like this sort of hard carapace on a face that's covering her eye and one side of her mouth and she's trying, you know, she's expected to act through it.

814
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:03.780
Do you know what, Nathan?

815
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:04.559
This writing team.

816
00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:08.340
Yeah, they've got one of the greatest weapons they could possibly have.

817
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:11.760
They've got Kate Mongrew and they do this to her.

818
00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:13.260
Yeah, I know.

819
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:14.519
Oh no, it's so embarrassing.

820
00:49:14.579 --> 00:49:20.880
I do love these shots of Voyager kind of melting. the Odo morphing effects. you know.

821
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:21.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

822
00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:23.340
Well, that's it. green liquid.

823
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:27.960
It's silver liquid. they're the same sort of thing So this scene is the scene that I remember.

824
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:30.420
It's utterly fucking embarrassing.

825
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:34.139
Look at all of them. at all of them.

826
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.019
No, you've got Kate.

827
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:39.840
You've got...

828
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:41.219
Oh, Neelix.

829
00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:45.300
You've got pretty Garrett Wang and Pretty Jerry Ryan there.

830
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:46.920
I mean, even Felix.

831
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:53.099
He's already covered in spots and hair and ridges and now they put some...

832
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:55.320
Like they're covering her eye.

833
00:49:55.380 --> 00:50:00.360
Like they're covering her right eye on one side of her mouth and expecting her to act and deliver dialogue.

834
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:01.980
And look at that.

835
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:03.239
Look at Jerry Ryan.

836
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:04.320
Jesus Christ.

837
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:05.940
What are they doing?

838
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:07.920
What is that?

839
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.639
Just active fit to each other. between takes.

840
00:50:15.059 --> 00:50:21.659
They better bring me soup for lunch because I can only drink for a straw. fucking bullshit.

841
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:23.519
And look at Garrett.

842
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:24.480
It's awful.

843
00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:25.739
It's awful.

844
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:27.719
Garrett's reusing his makeup.

845
00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:30.239
Remember when he got infected by Species 8472.

846
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:31.619
It looks a bit like that again.

847
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:33.239
They've got the tubes up the nose again.

848
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:34.619
They choose up the nose.

849
00:50:34.739 --> 00:50:35.340
Yeah, yeah.

850
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:35.699
Yeah.

851
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.880
Oh, no, now Neelix is the chief medical officer.

852
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:41.460
Just when we thought fingers couldn't get any trouble now.

853
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:42.900
That's right.

854
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:45.539
Oh, no.

855
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:50.579
Kate, she should have said, how do you expect me to talk with a flu in my mouth?

856
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:51.179
That's right.

857
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:52.440
What are we doing here?

858
00:50:52.500 --> 00:50:54.360
Who thinks this is a good idea?

859
00:50:54.420 --> 00:50:56.880
Why is this in any way watchable?

860
00:50:56.940 --> 00:51:02.820
Do you know, I fear if there's anyone in the audience that enjoys listening to us and rant and rave in a hysterical way?

861
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:05.699
They will not be shortchanged in calls oblivion.

862
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:07.139
Yeah, okay.

863
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:09.059
So here we're doing another thing, right?

864
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:10.559
We're doing our personal logs.

865
00:51:10.619 --> 00:51:27.539
We've all seen the inner light, and so we're deciding that we're gonna download, download our logs of the last 10 years of Voyager, 10 months of Voyager episodes that never happened, and we're going to, you know, send them off into space.

866
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:35.099
But just because the riders are being horrible, it doesn't work.

867
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:37.679
And, you know, it's called course oblivion.

868
00:51:37.739 --> 00:51:39.119
So it was never going to work.

869
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:43.380
They're not going to be remembered because that's the opposite of what oblivion means.

870
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:45.059
Like I kind of get that.

871
00:51:45.119 --> 00:52:01.079
And I kind of get, you know, if we're making an existential point, if we're expecting our legacy to last forever, then we're fooling ourselves and we can't act on that basis either, we have to make our decisions, you know, now for this life because that's what we've got.

872
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:04.860
But, like, it just seems so mean spiritual.

873
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:05.639
So depressing.

874
00:52:05.699 --> 00:52:07.500
So depressing.

875
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:19.320
I wonder if this is why the deep memorial in the next season and the entire episode about this huge obelisk that remembers the society, you know. strangely enough, it's very moving and engaging to watch.

876
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:22.019
Yes, this bullshit.

877
00:52:22.739 --> 00:52:25.320
Yeah, no, let's shake the camera now a bit as well.

878
00:52:25.380 --> 00:52:28.860
In fact, no, when they shake the camera, the sort of the makeup is less visible.

879
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:29.639
So keep going.

880
00:52:29.940 --> 00:52:33.059
I mean, this has still got 7 minutes to go.

881
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:36.179
Oh, yeah, it's really bad.

882
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:38.760
Should we sing or something?

883
00:52:38.820 --> 00:52:51.539
No, we're just having a scene of techno babble. only everyone's ugly. which is normally what we have. fucking Did you see the, the, um, God, it's what they're called.

884
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:52.559
The closed captions there.

885
00:52:52.619 --> 00:52:54.480
It said tired sigh.

886
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:56.940
I mean, it could be close captioning me right now.

887
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:02.159
All right, now Janeway's dead, which seems like an odd choice, but okay.

888
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:03.719
This should move. surely.

889
00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:10.619
Yeah, no, but the whole thing is just, it's just like, oh, well, at least Kate doesn't have to get made up for the next 10 days.

890
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:15.119
Even the Vedians that they're worst looked as ghastly as Neelix does right there.

891
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:17.280
Or Garrett, look at him.

892
00:53:17.340 --> 00:53:18.539
Oh, Jerry.

893
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:19.440
Jesus Christ.

894
00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:21.059
It's so it's so bad.

895
00:53:21.179 --> 00:53:23.460
She looks like a monkey.

896
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:24.780
Like it's awful.

897
00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:28.800
I remember when we did Genesis, you know, and everyone was turning into creatures.

898
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:30.480
But that was fun.

899
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:34.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

900
00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:37.260
Orphors and Neanderthal and Reg Barker as a spider.

901
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:41.039
Yeah, I mean, I'm starting to see that episode in a new light, you know.

902
00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

903
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:44.579
Just look how just bleak this is.

904
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:46.500
And like he's this special effect.

905
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:48.719
Naughty let's give a shot of people dying.

906
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:50.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

907
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:51.539
Yeah.

908
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.800
Star Trek, you know?

909
00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:56.400
Yeah.

910
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.679
This bold optimistic year of the future.

911
00:53:58.739 --> 00:54:00.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

912
00:54:00.539 --> 00:54:05.159
No, the what happens in the future is everyone dies horribly and then is forgotten. and that's true.

913
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:08.699
But, like, why are we watching an episode about?

914
00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:17.760
There are ways of examining that, of rejecting that idea and examining that, and it's what DSI did on a regular occasion in its later years.

915
00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:19.440
This is not that.

916
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:20.880
No.

917
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:22.739
This is just giving up.

918
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:25.619
Yeah, yeah.

919
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:28.500
You know, well, matches are not, are they?

920
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.599
They're still sort of trying with all this techno.

921
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:31.380
They're still doing stuff.

922
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:33.179
Well, they're still trying to send off this thing.

923
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.579
That's the one thing that's happening.

924
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:39.900
I think somebody should have committed suicide just to make it even ghastlier.

925
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:41.159
Jerry Ryan should have gone.

926
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:43.860
I can't face looking on this for the rest of my life.

927
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for the rest of this episode.

928
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.840
I can't do sit in the makeup chair.

929
00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:53.579
I'm not getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning to be made up to look like this for another day.

930
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:58.079
Oh, funnily enough, they didn't do this to her on Picol, did they?

931
00:54:58.139 --> 00:54:58.860
No.

932
00:54:58.860 --> 00:54:59.280
No.

933
00:54:59.340 --> 00:55:03.599
They just let her look as sexy as she possibly can.

934
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:09.420
Oh, no, the launch mechanism's demolecularized.

935
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:10.380
Oh, no.

936
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:12.059
I hear that's bad news.

937
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:15.780
Well, I think it means that there are no molecules in it anymore.

938
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:19.380
And it's something that catastrophic existence.

939
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.780
Mission locks... history gone.

940
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:24.300
They don't have a backup.

941
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:26.579
Like, I just don't, like, they don't have a backup.

942
00:55:26.579 --> 00:55:30.960
And they just put them in the thing. and they were just going to fire it off into space.

943
00:55:31.019 --> 00:55:31.860
They didn't have a backup.

944
00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:34.199
They deleted them all.

945
00:55:34.260 --> 00:55:40.440
It should be panic, you know, like, it should be, it should make you feel something in the performance.

946
00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:42.780
But they're so fucking lacklustre.

947
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:45.059
Yeah, yeah.

948
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:46.980
Oh, God.

949
00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:49.079
No, we're trying to hail Voyager.

950
00:55:49.139 --> 00:55:51.360
The subspace transceivers malfunctioning now.

951
00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:52.199
Yeah, yeah.

952
00:55:52.260 --> 00:55:56.340
Because just everything and his puppy has died as well.

953
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:59.280
And like, it's just everything terrible is happening.

954
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:06.239
I just, I do wonder as well about the decision of leaving Garrett Wang to do the sort of emotional climax of the episode.

955
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:09.420
Oh, no, maybe they watched timeless earlier in the season, of course.

956
00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:10.500
Well, it worked.

957
00:56:10.619 --> 00:56:11.639
They thought he can do it.

958
00:56:11.699 --> 00:56:15.000
He can do it. bring things to the table.

959
00:56:15.059 --> 00:56:17.340
No, basically, but who's talking about?

960
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:18.179
No one can bring this.

961
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.280
Kate Mulgrew couldn't do it.

962
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:21.420
Yeah, that's right.

963
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.480
If this is above Kate Mulgrew's acting great.

964
00:56:24.539 --> 00:56:26.519
Garat Wang doesn't have a hope.

965
00:56:26.579 --> 00:56:30.659
Sorry, Gary. don't ever listen to untitled Star Trek expression.

966
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:34.920
But he is so pretty and they've ruined that as well.

967
00:56:34.980 --> 00:56:38.219
They've taken away as one redeeming feature as an accent.

968
00:56:38.219 --> 00:56:38.880
That's right.

969
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.019
The one thing that kept him on the show.

970
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:42.539
All right.

971
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.260
So what are we doing?

972
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:44.820
We're ejecting the warp core.

973
00:56:44.940 --> 00:56:46.920
Oh, no, it doesn't work.

974
00:56:46.980 --> 00:56:48.960
I suppose this reasons.

975
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:54.599
At this point, we're still thinking, we've still got a glimmer of hope, but actually, boy, we'll see somebody.

976
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.380
I remember them.

977
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:57.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

978
00:56:57.960 --> 00:56:59.880
Oh, the ship's shaking his head apart.

979
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:02.159
Sparks flying. can't see any rocks.

980
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:06.659
No, none of the, none of the console seem to be explo-.

981
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.480
Oh, there we go. why it's not Voyager, you see?

982
00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:09.900
No rocks.

983
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:11.280
Yeah, yeah.

984
00:57:11.340 --> 00:57:15.239
But I think we cut away from it before we see anything catastrophic happen.

985
00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:19.559
I mean, apart from this, this is pretty catastrophic. 7's dead.

986
00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:24.119
But not even a witty line like Janeway had every time she blew up the ship.

987
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:24.599
No.

988
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:25.079
Yeah.

989
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:25.619
You know?

990
00:57:25.739 --> 00:57:28.800
Hello, everybody. welcome to the bridge.

991
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:30.900
So great.

992
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:35.460
So just hang on for 5 seconds, 5 minutes, Garrett, you can do it.

993
00:57:35.579 --> 00:57:37.500
Now we come back to the real ship.

994
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:39.000
Oh, yeah.

995
00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:39.719
Here we go.

996
00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:41.219
And everyone's looking normal.

997
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.739
Oh, except for the...

998
00:57:43.739 --> 00:57:46.019
Indistinguishable from the fake one.

999
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:49.920
Oh, no, wait. looks a lot nicer.

1000
00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:52.139
That's right.

1001
00:57:52.500 --> 00:58:02.940
And so, and so this, right, which I think is, again, another bleak thing where she enters into the log.

1002
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:10.920
So not only, like when we see them on the on the screen, that's nothing, it's just liquid, do you know what I mean?

1003
00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:14.579
Like it's just completely gone apart.

1004
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:20.159
Like it's, it's just sort of fallen into liquid. and then we get...

1005
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:23.460
Residual, juridim...

1006
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:24.840
Well, we had that.

1007
00:58:24.900 --> 00:58:25.440
We had that before.

1008
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:27.599
At least everybody looks pretty again, though.

1009
00:58:27.659 --> 00:58:30.300
Yeah, see that's that's good.

1010
00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:33.239
And they never, they never fucked up Tim Ross.

1011
00:58:33.300 --> 00:58:36.239
In fact, I don't think they've ever looked to hear me.

1012
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:37.980
They do in this scene, all of them.

1013
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:41.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's right Make a note in the ship's record.

1014
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:46.019
We received a distress call at 900 hours and that's it.

1015
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:49.320
That's all that survives of that ship is that entry in the log.

1016
00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:52.019
The ship was destroyed.

1017
00:58:52.139 --> 00:58:54.659
She says, that's it. unknown.

1018
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:55.739
Yeah.

1019
00:58:55.800 --> 00:58:59.940
And so we could have called this episode cause unknown.

1020
00:58:59.940 --> 00:59:04.559
I like how she's delivering this because, do you know what I mean?

1021
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:09.960
She's getting to act like she's thinking about it, like what's you look at how she's thinking.

1022
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:19.500
It's, it's Kate doing the thing where it's just like, I don't know what happened here and she's properly wondering about it and she's selling that she's wondering about it.

1023
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:21.119
But that's amazing that they get.

1024
00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:25.559
How much she can perform when they remove the adhesive from her mouth, isn't it?

1025
00:59:25.619 --> 00:59:26.760
right.

1026
00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:27.840
It's amazing.

1027
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:29.219
You know what, right?

1028
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:39.719
I got to tell you, because the next episode has now begun on Netflix, and it's the fight featuring Robert Belcher and screaming hysterically because he's having all these visions of the boxing ring and Boothby.

1029
00:59:39.780 --> 00:59:49.920
And, of course, oblivion is the middle course of the trilogy of terror, the disease, course oblivion, and the fight. and the five.

1030
00:59:49.980 --> 00:59:52.679
And boys only does it twice.

1031
00:59:52.739 --> 00:59:56.699
There's a 3 episode run which we've already talked about in series three.

1032
00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:00.539
Ironically enough, also features a Harry Kim episode in there as well.

1033
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:01.079
Right.

1034
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:04.500
In fact, both of them, there's a fake heritage for Harry Kim.

1035
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:07.380
In both of those episodes, and they're both appalling.

1036
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.980
Yeah, that just doesn't have a pulse to it at all.

1037
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:15.900
I mean, I know they don't have pulses, but like, no, it's awful.

1038
01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:17.400
Like, it is just awful.

1039
01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:19.619
And it's in no way enjoyable.

1040
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:23.280
It's bleak and it just unnecessarily miserable.

1041
01:00:23.340 --> 01:00:26.639
It's mean spirited, and it's in no way entertaining.

1042
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:35.159
But what is the most egregious thing about this is we know all the people involved in this episode have done great work elsewhere.

1043
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:40.739
Fuller went on to create Star Trek Discovery, whatever you think about that, it was a huge success.

1044
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:46.380
And some Williams directed it's only a paper moon, which was one of the best character dramas in 90s trek.

1045
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:49.619
These actors have done Sterling work elsewhere.

1046
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:55.260
So how did all these people come together to create this nothing else?

1047
01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:56.820
Awful.

1048
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:57.960
Just dreadful.

1049
01:00:58.019 --> 01:00:58.920
Well, look.

1050
01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:09.599
As ever, you know, I said this a lot, but my most enjoyable experience of watching Course Oblivion has been, of course, with you ranting hysterically at my size.

1051
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:23.460
Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work out where we're going next.

1052
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:30.840
I sometimes go to the stats to see which series we've done too much of so that we don't use it up.

1053
01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:42.239
You know, I don't want to find myself at the end of Untitled Star Trek project sometime in 2040 or something, with no more episodes of Deep Space 9 left to watch.

1054
01:01:42.300 --> 01:01:45.179
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1055
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:47.940
So we try and we try and keep things even.

1056
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:57.480
But because that was such a deeply, deeply unpleasant experience, I'm going to choose something that we've actually watched a bit more of than any other show.

1057
01:01:57.539 --> 01:02:00.480
Strange new world to choose an episode.

1058
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:01.679
Strange new world.

1059
01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:03.900
Oh, my God.

1060
01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:07.260
He's going to drop another 10 episodes sometime recently soon.

1061
01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:08.579
It's in production at the moment.

1062
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:12.719
I have to watch something good. was absolutely fucking miserable.

1063
01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:20.579
This is the one time I can say with absolute confidence that what we're about to watch will be better than what we've just watched.

1064
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:22.079
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1065
01:02:22.139 --> 01:02:25.079
Yeah, well, we could do an enterprise episode and that would be true.

1066
01:02:25.139 --> 01:02:27.719
We could do an animated series episode.

1067
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:31.440
All right.

1068
01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:33.179
So we're going in.

1069
01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:34.559
I'm going to press the button.

1070
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:43.260
Your random Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode is all those who wander, season one, episode nine.

1071
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:48.000
So this is the 2nd last episode of series one.

1072
01:02:48.059 --> 01:02:52.500
It's a 10 episode season, and it is one of the gone episodes.

1073
01:02:52.559 --> 01:03:00.900
So it's a brilliantly atmospheric, if not entirely original premise, done just incredibly.

1074
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:02.460
It's about originality.

1075
01:03:02.460 --> 01:03:05.099
When the horror is done this.

1076
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:07.320
Well, Star Trek is pretty lame at horror.

1077
01:03:07.380 --> 01:03:08.880
This was terrifying.

1078
01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:10.559
It's really good.

1079
01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:18.119
And one of the very few episodes of Star Trek that you and I have watched together in person.

1080
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:19.860
Yeah, that's true.

1081
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:21.360
We have watched that one together.

1082
01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:23.400
And it's really terrifically enjoyable.

1083
01:03:23.460 --> 01:03:24.119
I think it's great.

1084
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:25.739
So I think we just go with that one immediately.

1085
01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:26.460
What do you reckon?

1086
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:27.539
Oh, glorious.

1087
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:28.139
Let's do it.

1088
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:30.059
Yeah, awesome.

1089
01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:51.119
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitledstar trekproject.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1090
01:03:51.179 --> 01:03:56.699
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1091
01:03:56.760 --> 01:04:02.340
This episode was recorded on the 2nd of April 2024 and released on the 19th of April.

1092
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:07.619
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Strange New Worlds, all those who wander.

1093
01:04:23.099 --> 01:04:24.719
Oh, great.

1094
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:26.460
Jesus Christ.

1095
01:04:26.460 --> 01:04:28.739
And he seemed like that as Hammer dying.

1096
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:29.820
Do you know what I mean?

1097
01:04:29.940 --> 01:04:30.480
Like Hammer?

1098
01:04:30.539 --> 01:04:33.480
who's been in it for like how many episodes?

1099
01:04:33.539 --> 01:04:38.340
5 episodes or 6 episodes. and that death land.

1100
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:41.039
Oh, I think I said this when we did skin of evil.

1101
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:45.059
That death is more affecting than Yars, death in skin of evil.

1102
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:46.500
And it's certainly...

1103
01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:47.880
Tears of the profits comes up soon.

1104
01:04:47.940 --> 01:04:50.340
And we're going to do all the deaths, you know?

1105
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:51.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1106
01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:53.280
Not that many of them.

1107
01:04:53.340 --> 01:05:02.760
And, and, you know, like, and all of those deaths, all 400 and something deaths or whatever, how many people are on Voyage 150?

1108
01:05:02.820 --> 01:05:03.780
I don't remember.

1109
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:07.079
Yeah, something like that, yeah. 170, something like that, yeah.

1110
01:05:07.199 --> 01:05:12.780
Yeah, but all of those people dying like, you know, who cares because it was just so dumb.

1111
01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:17.159
Yeah, yeah, that's going to be good.

1112
01:05:17.219 --> 01:05:18.960
I love Voyager.

1113
01:05:19.019 --> 01:05:20.219
And those Voyager.

1114
01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:22.739
I love, um, Strangely World.

1115
01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:27.000
Even dramatis persona, you know, are cared more about than this episode.

1116
01:05:27.059 --> 01:05:30.840
I just don't know if I've ever watched an episode in this entire run we've done so far.

1117
01:05:30.900 --> 01:05:34.380
We're off kids so little about what's going on on the screen.

1118
01:05:34.619 --> 01:05:42.360
Yeah, no, because it's so stupid and so mean spirited and it doesn't arise from anything.

1119
01:05:42.420 --> 01:05:44.400
It's got nothing to do with any of the characters.

1120
01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:45.659
We don't learn anything.

1121
01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:48.119
There's more mean-spirited episode of Star Trek, unless.

1122
01:05:48.840 --> 01:05:50.699
It probably is.

1123
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:52.739
There probably is a DSN eyes run, surely.

1124
01:05:54.059 --> 01:06:00.179
Yeah, like 90s strike doesn't do very good with, uh, you know, like the Star Trek.

1125
01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:03.360
Well, there's one that's very mean spirited, but it's brilliant, I think.

1126
01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:04.019
Valiant.

1127
01:06:04.139 --> 01:06:05.940
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1128
01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:11.039
It takes all those idealistic, you know, Star Trek characters and murders them all horribly.

1129
01:06:11.099 --> 01:06:14.099
Well, like I kind of like that because they're creeks.

1130
01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:15.599
Well, yeah, they are.

1131
01:06:15.659 --> 01:06:16.380
They are usual.

1132
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:20.880
There are usual sort of, it's series one, uh, TNG, you know?

1133
01:06:20.940 --> 01:06:23.280
If you go out and civilise the galaxy.

1134
01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:26.219
The finest crew, the finest crew.

1135
01:06:26.219 --> 01:06:26.940
Red squad.

1136
01:06:26.940 --> 01:06:27.659
Red squad.

1137
01:06:28.679 --> 01:06:39.539
But it's the, um, like I thought, no, the Battle to the Strong was pretty mean-spirited, because it's like Nog, who is a nice person, not Nog, because it's Jake, who's a nice person.

1138
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:44.519
Can't cope in their shitty version of Mash that they create for the episode.

1139
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:47.159
I love it.

1140
01:06:47.219 --> 01:06:48.179
I love it.

1141
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:50.219
I love our bleak kids and I love it how he acts it.

1142
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:51.719
Sarah often.

1143
01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:52.199
Yeah, great.

1144
01:06:52.260 --> 01:06:56.699
Yeah, he's good, but I just sort of think, well, there's nothing wrong with actually bottling out of that.

1145
01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:57.239
Do you know what I mean?

1146
01:06:57.300 --> 01:06:59.039
Is the visitor quite well?

1147
01:06:59.099 --> 01:07:03.960
No, you've got to kill yourself in all of...

1148
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:08.280
It's kind of weird because it doesn't go anywhere.

1149
01:07:08.340 --> 01:07:11.159
I mean, the Ben remembers it.

1150
01:07:11.219 --> 01:07:16.320
The tone is lovely. like it's it's melancholic rather than depressing.

1151
01:07:16.380 --> 01:07:19.980
Because it is, like, we do die. dies, but he dies.

1152
01:07:20.039 --> 01:07:23.699
He gets the chance to talk to this young woman who admires his work.

1153
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:31.380
He's given happiness to, you know, people who've read the thing. would be me knocking on your door.

1154
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:34.380
You are Nathan Bottomley, the podcaster, aren't you?

1155
01:07:34.860 --> 01:07:36.960
For Christ sake.

1156
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:40.860
But like, but that's beautiful.

1157
01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:41.820
Like, that's beautiful.

1158
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:46.739
Like it's got Jake loving his father, which is also sad and beautiful and a thing.

1159
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:48.420
Oh, gorgeous, yeah.

1160
01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:50.039
Well, and it just looks beautiful.

1161
01:07:50.099 --> 01:07:55.920
Yeah, got a lovely garden outside and the sunlight coming in through the windows and the music's gorgeous.

1162
01:07:55.980 --> 01:07:57.719
There's just none of that here at all, isn't there?

1163
01:07:57.780 --> 01:08:03.539
Well, no, but what do you get, like, you get the worst, Robert, kind of going, no, B'Elana, like, it's awful.

1164
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:04.860
Like, that's awful.

1165
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:07.079
Well, the cheesy thing.

1166
01:08:07.139 --> 01:08:11.699
You know, we've barely scratched the surface with dreadful rubber dump McMill acting, you know.

1167
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:16.979
There's so many episodes that he gets, it's run, and we've only done one or two, I swear.

1168
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:18.359
Oh, yeah.

1169
01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:19.859
We've done the worst.

1170
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:20.399
Yes, which is.

1171
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:22.680
Well, I don't know, you think the worst.

1172
01:08:22.739 --> 01:08:25.680
I think Alice might be worst.

1173
01:08:25.739 --> 01:08:27.539
It's been a while since I've seen Alice.

1174
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.539
I suppose it is an evil car that haunts him.

1175
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.100
That's quite fun.

1176
01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:33.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1177
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:40.199
It's actually, it was supposed to be this sort of really sexy sports car, you know, in human form, which you can't act at all.

1178
01:08:43.260 --> 01:08:45.060
God, I'm right.

1179
01:08:45.060 --> 01:08:46.560
If this does go in on the tag, right?

1180
01:08:46.619 --> 01:08:47.159
Any of this.

1181
01:08:47.220 --> 01:08:49.859
And I feel like it should because we're sort of talking about Star Trek here.

1182
01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:51.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1183
01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:52.920
I would like to point out to anyone this thing.

1184
01:08:52.979 --> 01:08:55.500
We do actually like Star Trek.

1185
01:08:55.619 --> 01:08:56.819
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

1186
01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:59.039
I mean, part of the reason, like, that's what I said.

1187
01:08:59.100 --> 01:09:06.000
These are characters that we like that we tune in and watch and we've got complaints to make about, you know, some of the acting and stuff like that.

1188
01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:08.279
But broadly, we have fun hanging out with these people.

1189
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:11.100
And very quickly was horrible.

1190
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:12.420
That was just horrible.

1191
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:13.380
I don't want to watch that.

1192
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:21.899
Quickly recommend then. to the audience to hang around at the end to hear you and me doing our untitled Star Trek project banter.

1193
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:25.739
Go and listen to the doomsday machine.

1194
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:31.199
Dharmok. um I mean, tacking into the wind, which we did recently.

1195
01:09:31.260 --> 01:09:34.319
Oh, actually, you were a little bit mean about that a couple of times.

1196
01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:35.939
I'm trying to think of something you fully endorsed.

1197
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:38.220
Oh, but take me out to the hola suite.

1198
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:41.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah. counterpoints.

1199
01:09:41.159 --> 01:09:42.180
Yep.

1200
01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:45.720
Um, and then what was that, fabulous true episode of Discovery.

1201
01:09:45.779 --> 01:09:47.340
Do you remember?

1202
01:09:47.399 --> 01:09:49.319
Oh, yeah, to connect.

1203
01:09:49.380 --> 01:09:52.140
But to connect from discovery.

1204
01:09:52.199 --> 01:09:54.239
I mean, anything from Strange New Worlds that we covered.

1205
01:09:54.300 --> 01:09:54.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1206
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:57.180
Pretty much anything from lower decks.

1207
01:09:57.239 --> 01:09:58.859
A night in Sick Bay.

1208
01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:03.659
Yeah, all right.

1209
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:06.960
We were doing so well until then.

1210
01:10:07.020 --> 01:10:08.279
It's so much fun.

1211
01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:09.300
It's great.