WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:30:41

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Hi, Joe. Hi.

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So, we finished an entire series of Star Trek, just 2 weeks ago

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with the counter clock incident, we said farewell to the animated

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series, and tonight, we are saying farewell not just to Star Trek

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Enterprise, but also to 90s trek.

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So this is these are the Voyages, series 4, episode 22, broadcast

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on the 13th of May 2005, which seems like an impossibly long time

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ago.

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Have you noticed the pattern as well?

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So we're getting sort of, as we're saying goodbye to all of these

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shows, an untitled Star Trek project, we are ever doing more

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popular shows as we go along.

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We started with TNG, which no one likes.

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Then we did Voyager, which some people liked.

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Then we did the animated series, which obviously everybody likes.

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And now we're doing Enterprise, which was the rounding jaw of the

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franchise.

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So I had always been taught to regard this as some kind of war

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crime.

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This is the worst thing that ever happened. that this was an

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absolute disaster and an absolute slap in the face to the dozens

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of loyal enterprise fans that existed at the time.

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You think as many as that, do you?

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A dozen. yeah possibly.

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I actually thought that this was actually quite a nice tribute to

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enterprise and perhaps more than a series, which was, I think, you

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know, by any measures kind of a failure.

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It's sort of more than it deserved, like a generous treatment of a

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show that didn't really, in the end, ever quite work.

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It's a series of unfortunate mistakes, isn't it?

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It's like 2 course corrections.

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And then when they finally make the course correction in the right

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direction, they get the shop.

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Yeah, yeah.

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What the hell?

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But I just, you know, I think it's fair enough for Paramount to

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say, well, look, we've given you 4 seasons to get this right.

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You know, like, we're not going to pour any, because it can't be a

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cheap show to make.

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It must have been maybe 3 or 4000000 per episode.

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Maybe.

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's not cheap, is it?

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No.

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Yeah.

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I mean, look, like, I read up on what Jamma had to say, and he

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gives his 2 stars, so he doesn't think...

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He's a little generous on Jamas.

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He doesn't think it's too much worse than Bem.

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Let's just say.

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And he says...

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You're never going to let that go, are you?

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He points out that I think that the news that Marina and Jonathan

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Frakes were going to be in it had leaked or had been announced or

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something and everyone was losing their shit and already saying

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how terrible it was going to be.

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You feel as if the the sort of the news of that meant that no one

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gave this a chance.

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Well, I think people came out determined to dislike it.

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And I have to say, the big criticism is, I think, kind of

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incomprehensible to me, in that, the idea is that every week we've

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been tuning in for 45 minutes of real space events from the

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distant future, but this week...

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So compellingly done.

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I can't tell any difference from reality.

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And this week we're just watching a TV program with William Riker

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and that's less realistic.

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And and we've addressed this before because I think we talked

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about the people who think that we're wasting time in batter bing

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batter bang helping to save the fictional bar of a fictional

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character when we're on a fictional space station, which is also

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crude by fictional people.

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So people.

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Yeah, they're fictional.

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Or, you know, the people who don't like the visitor because it

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never really happened.

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And so, like, you're talking about there, you know.

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I know.

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All of that stuff, I think, is sort of bafflingly weird, because

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this is an episode of Enterprise, and it's an episode of

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Enterprise that we couldn't, I think, have got without some kind

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of narrative Fiji Widginess, because they must have assumed that

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Enterprise would go for 7 years.

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I don't think they had an end in sight.

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It's not like Voyager, where we know that the Andes they come

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home.

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It's not like Deep Space 9 where from about series 4 onwards, we

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know that it's going to end with the end of the war.

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It doesn't have an ending site.

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So what do we do at the end of it, right?

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And I think that.

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Well, I think that having them found the Federation is a thing.

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Having, you know, this be the story of the ship that went out into

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space and and forged alliances and met people and stuff and

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eventually led to the foundation of the Federation.

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Now, the show in no way tells that story, you know, like from week

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to where you can use.

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It stops telling it in the last series.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it probably, and I actually said it would have come to

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fruition in the fifth.

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Yeah, but they don't have the 5th suddenly and they've got the

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weird situation where...

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They had us one episode left. just do it now Instead of doing this

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TNG episode.

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Oh, in the last scene, they do.

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At the end of the Foundation of the Federation.

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The whole thing is about them heading towards this meeting where

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Archer has to give a speech and it's the foundation of the

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Federation.

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Now, the episode itself is barely about that at all.

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But it does end with that.

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And like, I don't think we could have done a seven-year jump, you

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know, like we would never have had a 7 years later suddenly at 7

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years later.

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That's weird.

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And so they have the framing story in order to motivate that, I

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think.

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So the previous ending that we had last week in Terra Prime is

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that it turns out human beings are slightly better than our worst

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white supremacists, and we'll go back to the drawing board for a

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bit, but we're heading towards the federation.

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And we do that in a scene that is visually incredibly boring

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because it is just a crappy hotel conference room that they're

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using as a location.

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And we have a speech and, you know, that speech is already fine.

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And that kind of ends it.

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But I think that that giving it a kind of attempting to give it a

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more mythic and more spectacular ending is the right call.

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Now, I think they swing and miss in all sorts of ways, but I don't

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think that the episodes are mis forgotten.

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I think that this is what they should have tried to do.

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I think that is a heroic reading on this episode, but

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unfortunately, I was bored stiff watching it to the point where I

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had to do it in 3 lumps.

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I am that incomprehensible person that you were talking about

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because I really don't like the framing device to this and I was

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taken out of the action every time Troy and Riker turned up in the

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back of scenes.

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I know this is a TV show and I know it isn't real, but it is so

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distracting to watch these things play out and having Marina

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Curtis in the background going, What the this?

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It's just baffling.

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I would have done anything to have watched Star Trek with Marina

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Surtis on the couch next to me commenting on it.

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I can't think of anything better than that.

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It just spells out artifice in every frame.

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And I know it is a real TV show.

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Well, it's not for me because it took me out of it and I just

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didn't care about what was unfolding because I'm like, well, none

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of this is important.

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What's important is the decision he's making on the Pegasus.

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I wanted to watch the Pegasus after watching this to say just what

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I can't even remember what decision he's trying to make.

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Do they make it clear in the episode?

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Yeah, no, they do.

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So he has sworn to Admiral Pressman that he's not going to reveal

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a secret about the Pegasus being fitted with a cloak, a cloaking

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device, and he decides to disobey that command.

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And he decides to trust Captain Picard.

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And I think that that's like, that doesn't really dovetail very

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well with what's going on in the episode, to be honest.

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Like, I, you know, it's Tripp's decision to punch Archer in the

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face, which, you know, you would want to do, I would think, uh, in

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order to sort of save his life and then kill the bad guys.

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And that's what motivates Reich, it's a kind of trust Picard.

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And there's more to it than that because he does talk to Tripp

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about his relationship with Archer in a scene that I think is

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actually pretty good. far more invested in that that I was in the

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internet.

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So I get why I don't care about Enterprise and so I'm not angry

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about this.

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I just don't care about this and I think that's even worse.

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I have no reaction to it.

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Tripp dies at the end of this episode.

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I have no emotional reaction to it whatsoever.

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I was just like, well, this is just a record of the past.

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Never mind.

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But it's the same people, shot the same way, doing the same

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acting.

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All of that.

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I don't understand why it makes a difference. the best scenes in

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Star Trek and none of them would be improved by having somebody

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else walking around the back of the scene and making it all

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mythic.

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It just I just came out of it completely.

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So there is a disconnect for me throughout the entire episode.

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So do you have sympathy with the people who say, I don't care

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about Vic Fontaine because he's a fictional character and why are

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we wasting time on the holiday?

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When you mentioned better being better bang?

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Good, good point.

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But that's a bit of fluff.

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That's a bit of fluff in the middle of the last season just before

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all the big important real stuff starts happening.

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Whereas this is the series finale.

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This is where we say goodbye to these people.

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I don't think I'm saying goodbye to the Enterprise crew.

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I feel as if I'm watching a next generation episode where they're

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you know, reading a book about enterprise.

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I think you're given plenty of chance to see the crew for the last

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time.

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And I think they give the crew the sort of time that they weren't

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able to give them in the much more action heavy to part of it

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preceded.

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The right people.

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Hoshi gets up 3 lines and so disrupted.

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They're over and done with in the 1st scene.

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Right. them done in the finale.

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I mean, you can understand why those actors are pissed.

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That Marina is a Jonathan Frakes are getting a 3rd of this episode

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and they're in one seat.

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They're not in one scene because they each have the chance to talk

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to Chef.

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So they do actually get, uh, they do get 2 scenes, but it's

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probably more amazing. less time.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But beyond beyond the framing device.

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Yeah?

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I found the performance is muted in this.

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I said this to you on the chat.

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Nobody really particularly seems invested in this group that

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they've got.

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They're competent, but nobody's going above and beyond in this

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script, acting wise, except possibly Jeffrey Coombs.

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I don't think the direction is a cut above either, and whatever

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you might say about Endgame, the direction of that was quite

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exciting, and there was action, there was fun things and visually

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interesting things going on there, and yeah, just a story.

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Man, it's so like lustre.

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The story is so boring.

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Berman and Bragg just can't let go.

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They can't give it to Manikoso.

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So they come in and they've just got nothing.

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The tank is completely empty.

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We're going to do, let's go after Strand's child and then have

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these green people attack the ship, the end.

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That's how we're seeing this show out.

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So there's some attempt to tie that back into their 1st mission or

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something, but it was clearly referencing an episode that I

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haven't seen.

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So they've been to Rygel before on their 1st mission in series

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one.

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So they're trying to sort of top and tail it.

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And the problem is, and we've observed this before, if this show

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is about founding the Federation, founding the Federation involves

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lots of people in rooms doing negotiations and writing contracts

249
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and doing all sorts of boring stuff that we're not going to see on

250
00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:24.779
this.

251
00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:27.659
And so they do something dumb instead.

252
00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:32.279
And I just think that's that, it means that the episode lacks

253
00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:33.659
focus, I think.

254
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:36.960
And they try and focus it around Tripp's death.

255
00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:42.539
And like, I thought, well, they focus it around that for about 10

256
00:12:42.539 --> 00:12:42.840
minutes.

257
00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:47.159
Well, yeah, yeah, but at the climax of the episode, like it's 10

258
00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:48.179
important minutes.

259
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:54.779
And they foreshadow it beforehand by having Marina mention it and

260
00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:56.340
they fake it out early on.

261
00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:58.980
We're supposed to think that bit where that panel falls from

262
00:12:58.980 --> 00:12:59.700
underneath him.

263
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.379
Then he's going to die.

264
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:01.919
That's right.

265
00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:02.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

266
00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:04.799
Turns out it's even more boring the way you go.

267
00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:06.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

268
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.879
Then, but, oh, no, no.

269
00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:11.460
I mean, I kind of like the way he goes, but it is like dumb.

270
00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.860
You know, like these dumb people come on the sheep and they get

271
00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:17.639
then for no reason and suddenly it's such a giant threat that he

272
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.539
has to, uh, you know, kill himself, even though we faced much more

273
00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:26.460
interesting and deadly threats than these stupid people in their

274
00:13:26.460 --> 00:13:27.779
warp 2 ship or whatever.

275
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.559
What I don't understand is why couldn't they have just done the 2

276
00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.659
parts of before leading up into this?

277
00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:35.820
The founding of the federation is happening here?

278
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:37.500
I don't know, there's a big bomb going off.

279
00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:40.919
They've got to stop the conspiracy of those those evil separatists

280
00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.220
or whatever they were coming in and that's how they end it with

281
00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:46.860
them saving the formation of the federation.

282
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:48.360
Is it because they fixed a day?

283
00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:49.860
So they can't do it now.

284
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:50.940
I think it is.

285
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:52.440
Oh, fuck off.

286
00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:54.960
Well, then that's Star Trek fans problem.

287
00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:55.980
Exactly right.

288
00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:57.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

289
00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:58.679
I don't think so.

290
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.559
They're that invested in what the fans think, that they won't just

291
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:02.399
tell a good story.

292
00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.220
They'll skip it forward to the point where they've already said it

293
00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:05.759
takes place.

294
00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:08.279
Are we that tied up into this stuff?

295
00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:09.659
Yes, yes.

296
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:12.419
One of the reasons and I think...

297
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:13.740
The one that a franchise died.

298
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:15.059
Well, this is the problem.

299
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.700
This is the absolute problem that the whole franchise has with

300
00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:18.419
continuity.

301
00:14:18.539 --> 00:14:23.820
So it's in the teaser of the outcast that Deanna announces that

302
00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:25.679
this round is Federation Day.

303
00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:31.860
Federation was founded in 2161, so 2s, aces, and 6s are wild, and

304
00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:34.860
that's when it's established that the Federation's founded in

305
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:36.120
2161.

306
00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:40.139
And so when they set season one in 2151.

307
00:14:40.379 --> 00:14:43.320
They must have known they were never going to make it to

308
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.100
Federation Day.

309
00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:46.500
At some point they're going to have to do a leap.

310
00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:47.940
Or they're going to have to do a leap.

311
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:49.019
But Star Trek doesn't do that.

312
00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:52.080
And they were never, ever going to do a leap without some kind of

313
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:52.740
framing story.

314
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:54.899
No, they do it with a framing story.

315
00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.539
Like they were never going to just say 7 years later.

316
00:14:57.600 --> 00:14:58.740
That was never going to happen.

317
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.320
And so they do it with a framing story and they do it with a

318
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.139
framing story, which is about the legacy of enterprise.

319
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:08.100
And so we go up to the foundation of the federation, but we don't

320
00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:08.460
see it.

321
00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:13.740
Like we have, he walks onto the stage and then it ends, you know

322
00:15:13.740 --> 00:15:16.320
the whole end of the episode is about him writing his speech.

323
00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.500
That's the conversation that he has with Tripp as his, as Tripp's

324
00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:19.799
dying.

325
00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.019
And he goes out onto the stage.

326
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:26.700
He's about to make the speech and it ends, but what we do see is

327
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.340
the legacy that the show has.

328
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:33.899
And I think the legacy of Enterprise actually is far, far better

329
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:39.059
dealt with in those old scientists in strange new worlds because

330
00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:44.159
you've had Boimler and Mariner geeking out over the crew of the

331
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:45.720
Enterprise.

332
00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:49.919
And then you have the Enterprise crew geeking out about the crew

333
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:51.179
of the NXO one.

334
00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:55.379
And when they mention the characters by name, the 2 characters

335
00:15:55.379 --> 00:16:00.360
they mentioned by name are Travis and Hoshi, the 2 people of

336
00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.480
colour and the 2 most neglected characters in the entire history

337
00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:04.080
of the show.

338
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:07.379
They need the exposure in other shows that they didn't get here.

339
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.759
I absolutely think that they're addressing that and that's a

340
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:13.500
deliberate choice in Strange New Worlds.

341
00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.019
But this is sort of trying to do that as well.

342
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:20.220
And I think for a show that failed, that everyone kind of tried at

343
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:21.419
that is sad.

344
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.940
Like it is a sad kind of failure.

345
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:27.720
The only show in the 90s not to make it to its 5th season.

346
00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:29.519
I think...

347
00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:33.419
Is that podcast that Triner and Montgomery do?

348
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:36.720
We're trying to give this show some sense of relevance, you know?

349
00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:41.279
And now, now, no, this is Delta Flyers that are doing DS9 now

350
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:43.320
moving on to shows that are sort of a bit better.

351
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.299
I can actually say nice things about.

352
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:50.100
But, yeah, it is sad because I feel like this is a group of actors

353
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.919
that really wanted to make their mark in this franchise and

354
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.379
spectacularly fail to do that.

355
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.259
Yeah, and I don't think it was their fault.

356
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:02.759
No, it was, it was, unfortunately, that created exhaustion of the

357
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:03.659
people in charge.

358
00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:08.460
And I do think there is some studio interference as well.

359
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:09.900
Bourman always says that.

360
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:11.880
Well, actually, talking of bourbon.

361
00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:14.160
Shall I give you some quotes before we go in?

362
00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:16.440
Because everyone's got somewhere to say about this?

363
00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:17.400
Not just you and me.

364
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.799
According to Rick Burman, this episode would have been the 4th

365
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.700
season finale, even if it had been picked up for a 5th season, he

366
00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:30.299
did state, however, that if the series had been renewed, Tucker

367
00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:32.940
would still have been killed off, because the episode flash

368
00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:33.900
forward in time.

369
00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.319
So when the show came back for a new season, Tucker would still

370
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:38.160
have been alive.

371
00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:39.420
God.

372
00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:41.640
I mean, isn't that terrible choice?

373
00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:43.259
How does how does it work?

374
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.119
Is it anything other than the end of first?

375
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:46.200
He die at some point.

376
00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:47.160
Never mind, you know.

377
00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:49.200
Yeah, but how does it ever work?

378
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:51.000
You know, we've seen the foundation of the Federation.

379
00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:51.660
What the point now?

380
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:52.859
you know that's ridiculous.

381
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:58.440
So Berman later said at a Star Trek convention in Las Vegas, this

382
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:02.579
was a valentine to all the Star Trek shows, bizarre that Voyager

383
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:05.339
and DS9 don't get mentioned then. don't think it was.

384
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:06.119
Was it?

385
00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:08.460
I think it's a Valentine to Enterprise.

386
00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:11.279
Well, he says that and then Enterprise just happened to be the

387
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:12.119
show on at the time.

388
00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:14.460
So he's not agreeing with you there, I'm afraid.

389
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.299
But he also said that it had a cool concept and some great stuff

390
00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:18.599
in it.

391
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.900
However, he found the episode to be languid, I agree.

392
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:23.759
And not a complete success.

393
00:18:23.819 --> 00:18:24.960
No shit.

394
00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:26.400
Yeah that's probably fair.

395
00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:32.160
Manikoto says that he considered this to be a coder rather than a

396
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:36.779
true finale of the series. fellow series producer Mike Sussman

397
00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:38.160
considered a two-part story.

398
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:40.980
Demons and Terra Prime that precede this instalment to be the

399
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:43.500
actual finale of the Enterprise storyline.

400
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:44.460
Yeah.

401
00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.680
Yeah, I think that's fair.

402
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:50.519
I think it's a bit of a limp finale, but I do think it does work

403
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.559
as a finale, and this is something different.

404
00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:55.259
And it's different from any of the other finales we've had, which

405
00:18:55.259 --> 00:18:58.440
I think is part of the problem that people have with it as well.

406
00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:00.480
John Billingsley.

407
00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:01.980
John Billingsley.

408
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:03.960
I think he gets 2 scenes in this, doesn't he?

409
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:06.599
The best thing about the show.

410
00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:10.079
I wasn't wild about the last episode as it is often the case.

411
00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:12.480
I think probably more as made of these things than they should

412
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:12.660
be.

413
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.420
See, he's always sort of very measured, isn't he?

414
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.200
It arguably should have been more about our stories on the next

415
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.019
generation's cast, and I think the people who were a little put

416
00:19:22.019 --> 00:19:23.700
out perhaps had a point.

417
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.359
It seemed to me from things that I've read or heard that people's

418
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:28.799
reactions were a little over the top.

419
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:33.480
I also think they were on some level trying to find a way to say

420
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.960
goodbye or at least goodbye to now for the entire franchise.

421
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:39.539
And to that extent, I would understand what the thought process

422
00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:42.779
was in wanting to bring in some of the next generation

423
00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:43.319
characters.

424
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.599
So it's sort of batting for both teams there.

425
00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:46.799
Yeah, yeah.

426
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:49.440
I think that's a reasonably measured view know viewpoint.

427
00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:52.980
Jolene Blaylock, who's...

428
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.740
She doesn't, yeah, she literally says it's appalling.

429
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.079
She goes, I don't know where to start with that one.

430
00:19:58.200 --> 00:19:58.680
Appalling.

431
00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:00.059
She gets some good scenes in it.

432
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.240
Marina Syrtis, personally, I thought this was a good episode.

433
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:05.640
I just don't think it was a good last episode.

434
00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:09.720
I don't think that's unfair because I think if this had been mid

435
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.059
season, you know, something this lacklaster had been mid-season

436
00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:13.980
I'd have been, well, that was all right. fair enough.

437
00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.440
There are plenty of Lack Leicester episodes in mid-T. But not in

438
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:17.579
series 4 though.

439
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:21.180
I think the basketball racing series 4 and this is way down there

440
00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:22.200
in terms of this season.

441
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:27.119
Brandon Bracker apologised to the entire cast of Enterprise for it

442
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.359
and said that he thought he'd made a narcissistic move in trying

443
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.539
to make the episode a Valentine to Star Trek and called it

444
00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:34.380
frappy.

445
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:37.920
I think that's him dialling it back, isn't it, after the

446
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.279
reaction?

447
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.799
He always does that though.

448
00:20:40.859 --> 00:20:43.259
Like when there's a crappy episode he's responsible for.

449
00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.380
He always goes into a sort of don't hit me stance, I think, and

450
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:49.380
goes in and says it's terrible before anyone else gets the chance

451
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:49.799
to.

452
00:20:49.859 --> 00:20:52.680
This is sort of his longer statement, though.

453
00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:55.799
The final episode of Enterprise was an idiotic move on my part.

454
00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:58.740
I thought it would be cool to do a Valentine to all of Star Trek.

455
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:00.119
I just don't see that at all.

456
00:21:00.299 --> 00:21:04.079
To me, there was something really post-modern about the idea of

457
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:06.420
saying it was an episode of Next Generation that you've never seen

458
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:09.299
where they go on the holiday with their heroes aboard the

459
00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:09.900
Enterprise.

460
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:11.339
It sounded good in my head.

461
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:14.640
What ended up airing was really bad and not successful

462
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:15.240
completely.

463
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.720
It should have been enterprises finale.

464
00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:21.960
It was a misstep and the actors, they hated it.

465
00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:26.880
It was the only time, the only time Scott Bacula got pissed off at

466
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.059
me.

467
00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:31.440
So apparently... grit his teeth throughout this...

468
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:32.039
He does that.

469
00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:32.640
Yeah, that's right.

470
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.940
To give us all on the level performance that he does, it's pretty

471
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:37.740
good if he's gritting his teeth the whole time.

472
00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:39.000
Oh my god.

473
00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:41.039
He was much worse in Strange New World.

474
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:43.019
I don't know why he wasn't crossing him then.

475
00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:44.759
Brakes is quite kind.

476
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:47.819
He says, uh, the reality was it was a bit of a stretch to have us

477
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:49.140
shut down enterprise.

478
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.599
I do think it was a bit of a disservice to them.

479
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:57.960
So, mixed, but it's not exactly positive, is it?

480
00:21:58.019 --> 00:22:02.160
But I have to say that I think the idea that it's a disservice to

481
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.680
enterprise is a stretch.

482
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.400
And I think perhaps people need to get a grip because it was the

483
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:12.000
show that failed and the entire episode.

484
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:14.160
It could really appetize it as such, though, could they?

485
00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:16.200
I suppose, oh, by doing it.

486
00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:23.220
Well, but the whole time you've got Riker and Troy there saying

487
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:27.000
how much they admire these people, how fun it is to wander around

488
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:28.259
this ship and see them.

489
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:32.099
You've got Riker chatting to them and drawing out what they feel

490
00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:33.720
about Tripp and about other things.

491
00:22:33.779 --> 00:22:37.920
Like, everything that they do is centred on the story that's being

492
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:42.720
told in Enterprise, and they're surprisingly little about the

493
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.279
Pegasus. actually there.

494
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:45.599
There's one scene.

495
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.740
I think that's devoted entirely to the decision that Riker has to

496
00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:49.980
make.

497
00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:52.559
And the rest of the time they're just observing what's happening

498
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:53.579
on the enterprise.

499
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:57.900
I think people overreact and overestimate how much next gen there

500
00:22:57.900 --> 00:22:58.859
is in this episode.

501
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.180
Before we go in, I hope it's worth pondering the question, what

502
00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:04.140
could they have done?

503
00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:07.559
That would have made people happy because looking at the other

504
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.579
like turnabout intruder was, you know, that's not...

505
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:12.960
It was just a show ending, wasn't it?

506
00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:14.279
They didn't have a finale, really.

507
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:17.819
That was Star Trek 6 that everybody loves because it was one last

508
00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:19.859
hurrah and final adventures for that crude.

509
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:20.880
And it was probably good.

510
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:22.980
People liked all good things a lot.

511
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.740
I think that's still very popular despite what we might have said

512
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:28.680
about it because it was all the crew together solving a space

513
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:29.940
problem and that was that show.

514
00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:34.740
And again, like a 3rd of that is set in a future that probably

515
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:40.559
won't happen, but no one's saying we wasted all that time looking

516
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.259
at a thing that isn't real and that never happened.

517
00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:44.279
Do you know what I mean?

518
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:49.319
Because the fun there was putting those characters into sort of

519
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:51.660
different situations and getting them to meet up with one another

520
00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:55.559
and seeing how time had passed and it was a possible plausible

521
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:59.220
future, some of which has gone on to be canonised in Picard.

522
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:01.440
So all of that, I think, works really well.

523
00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.440
It had Mrs. Carmichael back in it from Times Arrow.

524
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:05.759
So an instant win.

525
00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:11.700
DS9 ended the way only DS9 could, which was over 10 episodes and

526
00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:16.319
11 hours to wrap everything up, but also to tell a big, exciting

527
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:20.160
political story with tons of character stuff.

528
00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:22.920
You and I have been there quite a bit recently and there's loads

529
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.140
of character stuff going on on payoffs and things like that.

530
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:27.119
So that worked really well.

531
00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:31.019
Voyager went out with sort of a lot of bangs and whistles, didn't

532
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:31.200
it?

533
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:32.880
Which is basically what Voyager did.

534
00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:36.119
Well, you know, like, I'm not convinced that this is that much

535
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:39.660
worse than Endgame, and I was sort of fairly pro-end game, but

536
00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:43.380
Endgame is another one where we kind of left with what can we

537
00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:48.299
possibly do to end this given that no one's undergone any sort of

538
00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:51.240
interesting character development in the last 7 years.

539
00:24:51.299 --> 00:24:51.900
What do we do?

540
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.619
And it turns out we just relitigate the decision that led us

541
00:24:55.619 --> 00:24:55.920
here.

542
00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:00.000
And we have a space anomaly that gives us a spare Janeway so that

543
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.299
we can sacrifice ourselves and still arrive.

544
00:25:03.660 --> 00:25:04.680
Double the hate bulger.

545
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:07.859
I mean, what more do you need in your finale, you know?

546
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.039
But, I mean, that's not great, but I mean, it's it's hampered by

547
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:12.779
the fact that the show isn't great.

548
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.940
Depending on all sorts of ways.

549
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.180
Whereas I think the thing of it what made me happy with Enterprise

550
00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:20.160
would have been just to end on a really great story.

551
00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:25.980
Just a really good, interesting, exciting story with some

552
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:29.039
genuinely good character beats that made me feel something.

553
00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:31.140
I didn't get any of that here.

554
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:32.460
I'm honest.

555
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:38.160
But I think that I think that the show then doesn't end up being

556
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:42.359
about anything, and this is a last stitch attempt, to make this

557
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:46.200
show, you know, the reason for all of the other shows, to make

558
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.900
this show, the thing that leads to the foundation of the

559
00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:49.440
Federation.

560
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:53.519
I don't know if it does that entirely successfully.

561
00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:57.180
I think... far more of that for me.

562
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:02.220
They look back so affectionately on this that we feel the impact

563
00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:06.839
of enterprise because of them telling us how amazing it was rather

564
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:08.339
than it actually being amazing itself.

565
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:09.660
That's fair.

566
00:26:09.779 --> 00:26:12.900
Well, I think we should definitely go in on that note.

567
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:19.019
The only thing that, you know, I was watching this. you know, bored

568
00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:22.259
stiff and I kept thinking to myself, oh, thank God, I get to watch

569
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:23.880
this with Nathan talking all over it later.

570
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.000
The only way to make this tolerable.

571
00:26:27.059 --> 00:26:28.500
Oh, maybe.

572
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:29.940
Let's see how I go.

573
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.359
Well, you're at least bit witty, you know?

574
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:36.720
Yeah we'll do our best. 42 minutes and 49 seconds.

575
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:38.460
I think we can just about manage it.

576
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:39.779
I'm going to count us in.

577
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:45.720
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

578
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.779
That was a long preamble there, wasn't it?

579
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:49.859
It really was.

580
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:50.940
It really was.

581
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.599
So here we get these 2 characters speaking for the 1st time in

582
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:55.200
ages.

583
00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:57.359
Hoshi said some character development.

584
00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:00.240
She has thrown her hair.

585
00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:04.019
Yeah, that's right, because we've passed a few years, so she's

586
00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:04.799
grown her hair.

587
00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:09.480
Well, again, you know, what part of the thing, because there's a

588
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:12.420
slight artifice to this end that we're watching a TV show about

589
00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:14.220
these people.

590
00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:19.920
It actually, we don't end up raising the question, like, why the

591
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:21.839
hell are they all still here 10 years later?

592
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:25.380
And it's always a slightly dumb thing about Star Trek, isn't it

593
00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:28.319
that they all stay in the same job for 7 years and never leave

594
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:28.680
it.

595
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:30.299
Here, they're here for 10 years.

596
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.000
Which is quite nice at the end of DS9, isn't it?

597
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:35.819
They're all going off to do jobs elsewhere. walks off to Kronos.

598
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:36.900
O'Brien's off to earth.

599
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:38.220
That happens here too.

600
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:41.579
We do get them going off to different places.

601
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:44.700
A few of them really want to work with Captain Archer again, which

602
00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:47.460
is braver. understand why, if I'm honest.

603
00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:50.640
Oh, look, there's William Riker.

604
00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:51.960
There's William Riker.

605
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:55.259
Set during the Pegasus, but I think he's eating a few pork pies

606
00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:55.740
since then.

607
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.799
Well, look, it's 11 years and it's a TV show.

608
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:04.680
Like, like, it's okay, you know, it Marina's hair is really quite

609
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:05.339
different as well.

610
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:08.220
They could have said to him, look, you've got 3 months, all

611
00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:08.579
right.

612
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.019
Lay off the pork pie.

613
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:10.799
Oh, no way.

614
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:13.079
They're 11 years old.

615
00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:13.920
Come on.

616
00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:15.660
It's an episode of Star Trek.

617
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:17.400
No one's starving themselves to be on that.

618
00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:19.200
I said I'm being a little bit mean, don't I?

619
00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:21.720
Oh, it's been a long time.

620
00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:25.140
Oh, it's a long time to hear.

621
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:29.099
Nathan and I decided off mic that this actually was the best theme

622
00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:30.900
tune of the entire 90s trek.

623
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:33.660
No, I think we, I think we did.

624
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.940
I think we did. let's say the most memorable.

625
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.680
I said something about how fabulously dadcore it was and how I

626
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:42.720
wanted to sing it every time it came on and stuff.

627
00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:45.059
Dad cool. love that.

628
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:51.059
My favourite bit is still the bit that goes, I've got, I've got

629
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:53.579
the...

630
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:55.259
Do you know what?

631
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:56.519
It's great for a gag as well.

632
00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:59.640
You know, the amount of times on other podcasts where they've been

633
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.819
going for a while and I just make a guest appearance and go, it's

634
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:03.839
been a long time.

635
00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:09.359
Bizarrely, everybody knows what I'm talking about.

636
00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:12.000
So it did, it's stuck in the memory, this theme tune.

637
00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:15.420
Do you think, I think, you know, when, like, discovery is

638
00:29:15.420 --> 00:29:19.920
obviously the next show after this, and it has the little kind of

639
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:24.359
blueprint elements that the, that appear here.

640
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:26.940
Look at this shot of the enterprise and how beautiful it is.

641
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:28.319
Very nice.

642
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:30.180
That shot, if the Enterprise did.

643
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.460
It says completely CG Enterprise there, isn't it?

644
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:34.500
Yeah, for the 1st time on TV.

645
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.319
And it's the Enterprise D, which was always a model.

646
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:38.579
And I think it looks beautiful.

647
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:41.400
And so these sets are recreated, are they?

648
00:29:41.579 --> 00:29:43.859
I know, send forward.

649
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:48.240
Do you know, somehow, they are a little more visually interesting

650
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.359
than those sort of gun metal gray enterprise sets, aren't they?

651
00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:53.460
Not much, but a little bit more.

652
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:58.859
Well, there's there's a moment where Deanna tells Raika to watch

653
00:29:58.859 --> 00:30:01.559
his head because all the ceilings are so low.

654
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:05.400
And look at how giant this...

655
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:07.980
You love latter-day marina soda is hair.

656
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.559
She sort of lets it all cascade down, doesn't she?

657
00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:13.980
So this is a wig and this is not how her hair looks.

658
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:17.099
That's not how her hair looks on Pegasus.

659
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.460
And she hates the wig.

660
00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:22.440
But I actually quite like it.

661
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:27.960
And this is kind of post-first contact, isn't it?

662
00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:30.660
Like, this is post-first contact Marina.

663
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.839
And so she's chilled, she's doing an English accent instead of

664
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.079
whatever the hell her accent was before her sort of Greek accent.

665
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:38.400
Like, she's...

666
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.759
I haven't got time to hang about on the Enterprise bridge, break

667
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:42.240
seat.

668
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:44.640
Reg Barkley coming in in a minute, you know.

669
00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:47.519
She's basically Cockney's hair, isn't it?

670
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:47.880
little bit.

671
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:48.599
It's wonderful.

672
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:49.980
It's just terrific. love it.

673
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:53.940
Written by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, Nathan.

674
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:56.220
We're in for a treat. make good.

675
00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:56.519
Yeah.

676
00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:02.039
So I, there's one moment with Marina and um, and Jonathan that I

677
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:04.559
just think is absolutely superb that I'll point out later.

678
00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:06.660
Jeffrey Combs.

679
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.500
Yes.

680
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:10.380
Finally, to add a bit of interest to the episode.

681
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.480
Yes, yeah, yeah.

682
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:16.619
And he's pretty great and it's his 2nd Star Trek finale, isn't

683
00:31:16.619 --> 00:31:16.799
it?

684
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:22.259
Yeah, well, of course, he was in, you know, he's gets murdered by

685
00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:25.680
Garak in a wonderful scene at the beginning of the last episode of

686
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.160
DS9.

687
00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:27.720
Yeah.

688
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:32.279
In fact, do you know, this is directed by Alan Croeca, who also

689
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:36.480
directed Endgame and what you leave behind?

690
00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:38.099
So there you go.

691
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:41.880
He's out there. getting worse and worse as they go along.

692
00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:49.380
So my favourite credit, my favourite closing credit is puppeteer

693
00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:54.119
and there are 2 puppeteers credited on this episode, and there's a

694
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:58.980
puppeteer for each of the Andorians doing their antennas.

695
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:01.980
I'd be going to conventions, you know, saying, oh, just the one

696
00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:03.059
that did the out in 10 ice.

697
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:05.519
I want to sign something. antennae.

698
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:08.880
What a great job.

699
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:09.900
What do you have to do?

700
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:10.680
Put a string?

701
00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:12.299
I don't know.

702
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.099
No, I think they're probably computer generated.

703
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.619
I like the move ahead an hour as well.

704
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:20.099
Like, I kind of like that we would just do this through a cut.

705
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:20.940
Do you know what I mean?

706
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.779
Or we would go, we would see a model shutter, we would do an ad or

707
00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:28.200
you know, and then we would advance the action, but just having

708
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:32.039
Riker do it, like having Riker direct the episode is something

709
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:32.759
that I quite like.

710
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:36.839
Oh, if only Jonathan Frakes was directing this episode.

711
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:37.859
Yeah, yeah.

712
00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:39.359
It might be a life to it.

713
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:42.420
Yeah, oh, no.

714
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:44.099
All that makeup in HD.

715
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.380
Do you see it all coming off his neck there?

716
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:47.400
Yeah, yeah.

717
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.579
I actually think that this is the most boring part of the episode

718
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:54.720
and that it's not really rescued by Jeffrey Coombes.

719
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:58.259
You seem to be suggesting that there isn't a boring part of this

720
00:32:58.259 --> 00:32:58.440
episode.

721
00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:02.400
No, but I think I mean, I found more interest in the sort of stuff

722
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:07.079
where people are talking to Riker and stuff like that and just

723
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:09.420
character stuff about trip and things.

724
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:10.259
I thought it was kind of fun.

725
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.059
I think this is boring.

726
00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:15.960
I know it seems like I'm just disagreeing with you for now as a

727
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:16.859
matter of course.

728
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:19.980
I actually think the piece where we're going to find a little girl

729
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:23.279
was the one bit where I was just a tiny bit invested.

730
00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:25.680
One because I like Jeffrey Coombes as an actor.

731
00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:27.660
I'm sure because that's something I can buy into.

732
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.039
It's a little girl in trouble.

733
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:32.819
So, yeah, and maybe they need to do their kind of last thing is

734
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:35.220
like one of their stupid heists that they do.

735
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:40.259
I mean, the sort of breaking into a place, is that a particularly

736
00:33:40.259 --> 00:33:41.039
enterprising?

737
00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:43.319
And I could have done without frakes in that...

738
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:44.700
Well, you're in the 2 parter.

739
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:45.480
We did before this.

740
00:33:45.539 --> 00:33:47.099
Terra Prime 2 parter.

741
00:33:47.099 --> 00:33:50.519
I know that fabulous base landing on the moon, and they were going

742
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:52.319
to murder all the aliens on the earth.

743
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:54.240
And that felt big, you know.

744
00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:56.039
Now we're just going after some little girl.

745
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:58.740
Yeah, but like part of the problem.

746
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.180
Part of the problem too with that.

747
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.940
And I think I sort of hinted at it before.

748
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:06.420
Like, it is a pretty good ending, but it the basic ending is a bit

749
00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:08.880
kind of muted that we're kind of too crap.

750
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:18.659
We're too far away from being capable of, of, um, uh, you know

751
00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:21.539
like of of being part of a federation, because we're all too

752
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:22.079
races.

753
00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:26.280
You see, I, this scene is worth doing in the final episode.

754
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:27.179
Don't you think?

755
00:34:27.539 --> 00:34:29.820
Still got a phone with his hands, I wasn't...

756
00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:31.199
Yeah, it's still on mine.

757
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:36.780
He's talking about how he felt about Vulcans and now he's going

758
00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:41.880
back and he's teaching her about her, you know, racism against

759
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:42.900
Andorians.

760
00:34:43.019 --> 00:34:47.280
And like that's a scene that's worth doing and it relies on them

761
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:48.480
having a relationship.

762
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:51.960
And then the galley thing, like, that's cute.

763
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.000
I think the galley thing is cute.

764
00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:55.739
No, you're not going to like me saying this.

765
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:59.400
I just see a pale imitation of Cisco and Kira right here.

766
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.079
Oh, yeah, it's just, it's just not as interesting and it's, it's

767
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:05.039
not as well played.

768
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:06.960
That's not a problem with this episode.

769
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:10.980
That's a problem with the show. if I'm thinking about a series

770
00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:11.699
gone by.

771
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:12.840
That's done this better.

772
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.239
But a series of better cast.

773
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:18.480
So Porthos is very young and he doesn't seem to have aged in the

774
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:18.960
last 7 years.

775
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:22.320
I did notice that, especially just a bit of gray, you know, in

776
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:22.800
Israel?

777
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:23.880
around the muzzle.

778
00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:26.400
Mind you, I feel as if they should have done that with some of the

779
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:27.119
cast as well.

780
00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:28.739
Just make it a bit more obvious.

781
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.159
Yeah, they give, I mean, they give her a different wig.

782
00:35:32.219 --> 00:35:34.679
They give Hoshi more longer hair.

783
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:38.760
I kind of like this, don't do him any favours at all, do they?

784
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:42.420
No, but like he's a, you know, he's not hiding the fact that he's

785
00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:43.260
a middle-aged man.

786
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:43.679
That's fine.

787
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:44.579
I think that's all right.

788
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:47.400
Oh, no, look, I wear a wire right now, okay.

789
00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:50.639
You can only see this part of me, but it's on skies down there.

790
00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:54.360
So what I think is really fun here too.

791
00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:58.079
And it's, I think I compared it to you earlier on to the

792
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:02.639
revelation that the doctors named himself Joe. that's finally what

793
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:04.139
he's settled on for his name.

794
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:05.760
I thought that was a good playoff.

795
00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:06.239
What a name.

796
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:08.099
What a name.

797
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:12.539
And so, and so here, we've got this character of the chef who's

798
00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:14.639
been mentioned all the way through the show's run, we've never

799
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.800
seen him, I think, is that right?

800
00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:19.079
I mentioned chef all the time.

801
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:19.980
Over and over again.

802
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:23.699
Usually as a way of getting out of scenes, you know, like, oh, I

803
00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:25.980
need to go and tell Chef what's on the menu today and stuff like

804
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:26.099
this.

805
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:27.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

806
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:31.380
But, and so we never find out who chef is, but we get chef here

807
00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:32.880
and chef is Riker.

808
00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:37.860
And so we get a scene where he pretends that he knows them.

809
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:38.820
Do you know what I mean?

810
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.820
acting as a character who knows and has a pre-existing

811
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:46.739
relationship with all of these characters, they open up to him, and

812
00:36:46.739 --> 00:36:48.659
we're talking about Tripp, aren't we?

813
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:51.659
We're talking about trip here because trip is sort of central to

814
00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:54.059
the question that Riker is here to answer.

815
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:59.880
But like I just, like I just kind of like this, this is them just

816
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:03.659
cooking the way that, you know, they do on Strange New Worlds and

817
00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:04.860
talking about people.

818
00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:10.920
And this, this speech where she talks about missing him, you know

819
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:14.940
that having been in a relationship with him and missing him.

820
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:20.400
And I kind of like this, it's not what you would do now, it seems

821
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:25.079
wrong, but it's just like he, he's older, he's a bit older than

822
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:28.440
her, and he feels a bit sad for her.

823
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:30.840
You know, like, I think that stuff lands.

824
00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:31.739
I think that lands.

825
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:34.800
These must be the crew, and this is the crew of the show. is

826
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.780
they're looking at pictures of a crew.

827
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:40.559
That payoff of the chef thing, and we don't even actually know

828
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:41.280
that that's true.

829
00:37:41.340 --> 00:37:44.219
I think we both just made up that they mentioned the chef lots of

830
00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:45.059
time, isn't it?

831
00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:46.079
Oh, I know that.

832
00:37:46.139 --> 00:37:50.159
It's a very niche payoff if it is, though. that's what you do in

833
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:51.360
your last episode, isn't it?

834
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:54.420
Like, you do have a story in your last episode.

835
00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:57.960
Oh, you do all that stuff as well. one of your jokes.

836
00:37:58.019 --> 00:37:59.039
Of course you do.

837
00:37:59.099 --> 00:38:00.719
That's exactly what you do in a finale.

838
00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:02.579
I don't know.

839
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:03.719
I don't know, do you know what?

840
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:05.099
Again, I would listen to what you're saying.

841
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:08.940
I appreciate what you're saying about, you know, simple character

842
00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:11.760
moments and hanging and cooking and all those lovely things.

843
00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:14.159
I'm still distracted by the fact that Riker's there.

844
00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:15.719
So it just doesn't feel real to me.

845
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:17.519
But it's not real.

846
00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:20.219
It doesn't feel real to me either, but it's nice.

847
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:21.059
Like they're nice seeing.

848
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:22.800
I'm not invested in the moment then.

849
00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:25.920
I'll use a different word I'm not in understand that.

850
00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:29.760
It's like not being invested in the visitor because it didn't

851
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:30.059
really happen.

852
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.460
Well, that's an alternative universe.

853
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:34.860
I'm not really invested in that either, but it's so well acted

854
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:36.000
give it a pass.

855
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.420
Until the dreadful makeup hits.

856
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:40.800
Oh my god, yeah.

857
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:45.780
Here we are, lots of Next Generation scenes now in the Enterprise

858
00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:46.260
finale.

859
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:48.900
Well, but it's a scene where we're all talking about, we're

860
00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:50.159
talking about the NXO1.

861
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:54.360
And, you know, we're getting all of that stuff about the legacy of

862
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:54.539
it.

863
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:55.739
Oh, shit.

864
00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:57.599
She's not giving it reverence.

865
00:38:57.659 --> 00:38:58.860
She goes, I'll get them all mixed up.

866
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.000
I'll compare it.

867
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.260
Which one is the NXO one?

868
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.780
That's down of being Marina for a change.

869
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:04.440
Look at this.

870
00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:05.820
Yeah, watch yourself.

871
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:08.159
They talk about where's the where's the fish tank?

872
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:10.559
How could Archer survive in here without a fish tank?

873
00:39:10.619 --> 00:39:12.960
I love those pictures of them.

874
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.719
Who's doing these cute scenes with Hoshi and the regulars?

875
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.739
I don't understand why we're doing this with these pairs.

876
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:24.659
Because we're trying to make this show have a legacy that it

877
00:39:24.659 --> 00:39:26.219
didn't get in its run.

878
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:28.199
We're trying to rescue it.

879
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:30.179
So is admitting defeat?

880
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:32.880
Well, I think that's it failed.

881
00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:36.539
This is the last episode of series 4 and it's the end of series

882
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:36.840
4.

883
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:37.619
It failed.

884
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:40.860
I just don't know if this ain't the biggest failure of all, though

885
00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:41.340
this episode.

886
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:45.420
See, I love all this sort of stuff with them wandering around the

887
00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:47.460
wandering around the ship and commenting on it.

888
00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:48.900
And...

889
00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:51.059
Here we go.

890
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:51.960
Here's the crew.

891
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.460
There's one black guy.

892
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:54.420
Oh, there's a woman.

893
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:56.519
There's a lot of white guys in this scene, though.

894
00:39:56.579 --> 00:39:57.000
Look at that.

895
00:39:57.059 --> 00:40:00.360
You can't understand why they're pissed then, but they're

896
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:03.239
basically, what you're saying is true, and they're reading this

897
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:06.300
script, which is giving relevance to this show, that they've

898
00:40:06.300 --> 00:40:09.840
slayed their asses off for 4 years, by handing it to the next

899
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:13.619
generation, and them, giving it some kind of relevance, you can

900
00:40:13.619 --> 00:40:15.119
understand why they're a bit pissed.

901
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:16.559
Well, what was all of our hard work for?

902
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:21.480
Well, but like it didn't erase the previous episodes of the show

903
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:23.460
they still exist.

904
00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:27.119
But at the 11th hour, it needs a better show to come along and say

905
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:27.960
well, that was worth doing.

906
00:40:28.019 --> 00:40:30.960
Yes, it does.

907
00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:34.920
And they should, they, they need to be realistic about having been

908
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.980
in a failed show, which was not their fault, and this is what we

909
00:40:37.980 --> 00:40:38.460
do.

910
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.219
We try and give it a generous send off.

911
00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:45.480
I feel like they should go out on a triumphant high and not on a

912
00:40:45.539 --> 00:40:47.159
Well, that didn't work, but...

913
00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:50.159
But it's not saying it didn't work.

914
00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:53.460
They're doing it because it didn't work, but they're saying this

915
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:58.920
show is the thing without which we don't, we, without it, we don't

916
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.480
get Star Trek the next generation.

917
00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:04.619
And it's clear at the very end, when we go back in time, we go at

918
00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:07.800
the very, very end, we get Captain Picard doing the thing over the

919
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:11.699
Enterprise, D, we get Kirk doing it over the original Enterprise

920
00:41:11.699 --> 00:41:13.920
and then we get Archer finishing it off at the end.

921
00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:17.519
And it's kind of like bringing it in, saying that this is part of

922
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:19.679
that history and this is important.

923
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:25.619
And it was, it, I think that's a generous thing to do. is to lend

924
00:41:25.619 --> 00:41:29.760
the weight of the far more successful show to the finale of this.

925
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:33.719
Yeah, we really are coming at this from different angles.

926
00:41:33.780 --> 00:41:36.480
I just feel a way of disappointment watching this.

927
00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:39.840
Yeah, yeah, but I'm not...

928
00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:40.739
Yeah.

929
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:45.360
Oh, look, I think it would have been better to have a big good

930
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.739
ending, but it would have been better if Endgame had been a big

931
00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:51.000
good ending as well.

932
00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:53.519
But the shows just weren't leading up to that.

933
00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:54.840
So what do you do?

934
00:41:54.900 --> 00:41:59.519
It's, it's that scene that I really like where it's a moment where

935
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.360
it's absolutely Jonathan and Marina, where Marina sees Archer and

936
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.780
goes, he's cute and Jonathan laughs and says, don't get any

937
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:07.380
ideas.

938
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.980
So you're not coming on here to do porn with archer in the

939
00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:12.420
holodeck after I go.

940
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.840
And but it's absolutely Jonathan laughing at Marina there.

941
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:22.139
You know, I was watching as well.

942
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:27.719
In a minute, there's a kind of an action sequence on that, uh, when

943
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.960
they save the little girl, and do you remember the action sequence

944
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:36.480
in Broken Bow, where they, they're in this fabulous location, and

945
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:39.719
it's all snow everywhere, and they're shooting through the snow

946
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:41.699
and it's visually very arresting.

947
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:43.559
Yeah.

948
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.019
I'm not sure how we got from there to here.

949
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:52.320
So at this point, we know that Tucker's going to die, but we

950
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:53.460
haven't dwelt on it.

951
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:57.480
Doesn't Marina say he, you know, or someone says he thinks he's

952
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:58.559
going to come home.

953
00:42:58.619 --> 00:42:59.460
Why does he need to die?

954
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:04.739
Well, I think it just gives the show...

955
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:05.579
Exactly.

956
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:06.840
That's the best I can do.

957
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:08.099
It feels unearned.

958
00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:12.420
Yeah, it does feel unearned because he dies for a dumb reason.

959
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:16.980
Like, it's like the most generic space people come on board and

960
00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:20.579
offer the least interesting threat imaginable, and he has to kill

961
00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:22.500
himself in order to save Archer.

962
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:24.719
It's a bit it's a bit mundane.

963
00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:28.139
You and I have established doing enterprise episodes in the past

964
00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:29.880
that we really like Connor Trinier.

965
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:31.920
We really like Tripp when they get him right.

966
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:33.900
And you absolutely.

967
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:36.480
He's the one you kind of do feel something for because he's got

968
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:37.920
this sort of wounded puppy look.

969
00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:38.820
He does, you know.

970
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:42.000
So I should be all over this shit when he does.

971
00:43:42.059 --> 00:43:43.139
What about this scene?

972
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.480
Like, I think this scene is really nice.

973
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:53.340
Because they've broken up at some point and she is telling him

974
00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:56.940
after having that chat with Chef, she's telling him that she's

975
00:43:56.940 --> 00:43:58.139
going to miss him.

976
00:43:58.139 --> 00:44:02.760
And she doesn't yet know, we know, but she doesn't yet know how

977
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:04.079
much she's going to miss him.

978
00:44:04.139 --> 00:44:10.320
And this, you know, like, Like, just the 2 of them, you know, we've

979
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:14.880
moved beyond the sort of, we're rubbing, uh, gel into each other's

980
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:19.559
tits stage of the relationship. 2 years we were doing that for.

981
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:23.340
And now it's kind of something that's a little bit more grown up

982
00:44:23.340 --> 00:44:26.940
and a little bit more kind of a little bit sad and wistful.

983
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:29.039
I think that's a good scene, you know.

984
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:30.420
It's a good scene.

985
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:31.139
I, you know what?

986
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:32.699
I think another issue.

987
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:36.360
I'm having with my list of issues is, is the fact that the last

988
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:39.480
time we saw them, they were in a relationship, you know, they were

989
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.179
having a baby and all of this, and I don't know what's on the best

990
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:46.920
split up, and that sort of intervening gap, it, it, it just feels

991
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:48.480
absent, you know?

992
00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:51.420
Yeah, but that's why this feels honour.

993
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:55.739
Well, what it feels like, when Manikozo says it's a coder rather

994
00:44:55.739 --> 00:44:56.699
than a finale.

995
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:02.039
It's a little bit like the 1st enterprise film.

996
00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:03.239
Do you know what I mean?

997
00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:06.239
It's like if we were to, if we were to have the film, we would

998
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:07.500
have jumped ahead 7 years.

999
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:09.119
We would have seen how everyone had gone.

1000
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:12.360
We would have seen how they changed. how their relationships among

1001
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:13.139
each other changed.

1002
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:14.219
That's how those things were.

1003
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.739
You make a you make a good point there.

1004
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:17.880
How things have changed.

1005
00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:21.599
TNG straight to a film within, you know, a month.

1006
00:45:21.659 --> 00:45:24.119
Now, it's like we can't end this quick enough.

1007
00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:26.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1008
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:26.699
Yeah.

1009
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:29.159
Oh, these villains.

1010
00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:31.500
I mean, what do you remember about these villains?

1011
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:36.179
That guy has like the weird ridges that he has on his face, like

1012
00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:40.260
it's a track that something's going to run down, like a model

1013
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:46.559
train. train. and this is the other fucking baffling thing.

1014
00:45:46.619 --> 00:45:50.159
So we've had heaps of dialogue about how this amethyst that

1015
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:54.059
they've created is undetectable without a neutronic something or

1016
00:45:54.059 --> 00:45:56.219
other. completely undetectable.

1017
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.940
So we'll swap it for the baby and then we'll the child and then

1018
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:00.900
we'll leave.

1019
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:04.679
But for some reason they decide to make it into a bomb.

1020
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.199
Like, I don't know why, like, like, look at this.

1021
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:08.579
It's so dumb.

1022
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:09.420
It's so dumb.

1023
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.119
And it looks like one of those cheap crystals you get when you go

1024
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:13.619
to the Festival Maze place, yeah.

1025
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:15.719
That's very Star Trek.

1026
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:17.940
It starts sort of flashing, yeah.

1027
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.000
So it gives them a child to do strobe lighting and stuff like this

1028
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.119
and make this really look good and they just flash it like 3 times

1029
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:24.840
and that's it.

1030
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:27.059
But like, why do they even do that?

1031
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.360
Why don't they just say, all right, we've got the kid Legger.

1032
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:33.599
You've done something atmospheric with it, you know?

1033
00:46:33.659 --> 00:46:36.719
And instead it's just like, oh, well, that's got them away, you

1034
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:36.960
know?

1035
00:46:37.019 --> 00:46:41.639
But also, if it's a bomb, why aren't they injured or dead or

1036
00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:43.619
anything, like, what the hell was the point of it?

1037
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:45.480
They turned it into a bomb.

1038
00:46:45.539 --> 00:46:49.260
It didn't do anything and it still leaves them alive.

1039
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:51.960
It still left them alive to come back on board the ship later and

1040
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:52.619
kill Tripp.

1041
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:56.760
It's ridiculous. is so bad that later on when he comes on the

1042
00:46:56.760 --> 00:47:00.000
Enterprise, he literally says, I'm not going to kill him now.

1043
00:47:00.059 --> 00:47:03.780
We'll be gone for 10 minutes and if we're not back, then you can

1044
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:04.139
kill him.

1045
00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:04.980
Kill him then.

1046
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:05.400
What?

1047
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:05.639
Yeah.

1048
00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:08.880
So late. so he's detecting it.

1049
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:10.679
We're up here for some reason.

1050
00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:12.599
I'm not quite sure what we're doing.

1051
00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:14.940
I do like a bit of scaffolding, Enterprise.

1052
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.280
I like sort of high shooting down shots, you know?

1053
00:47:17.340 --> 00:47:19.739
Well, they're kind of shooting in a warehouse or something.

1054
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:21.000
Yeah, so it explodes.

1055
00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:21.780
Why does it do that?

1056
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:22.380
We don't know.

1057
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:24.420
It's not good, isn't it?

1058
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:25.139
just sort of flashing.

1059
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.719
No, it's just flashing what so that they can get away?

1060
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.820
As far as I can see, the only thing that it's achieving is it's

1061
00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:35.699
lightening up your pretty face even more than it is on the

1062
00:47:35.699 --> 00:47:35.880
screen.

1063
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:39.900
But apart from that, no, there's no reason.

1064
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:43.199
Yeah, it is a bit. a bit of largy barge here.

1065
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:43.920
People running about.

1066
00:47:43.980 --> 00:47:47.579
There's a macco, Riker gets to be a macco there.

1067
00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:50.099
Think about that glorious sequence in where the Warrior, where

1068
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:51.300
they're fighting on the promenade.

1069
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.039
I mean, it shits all over this, doesn't it?

1070
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:54.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1071
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:56.760
But that's always an enterprise problem, isn't it?

1072
00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:57.780
No one really cares.

1073
00:47:57.840 --> 00:47:59.219
These people are super boring.

1074
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:02.340
This is just eating up running time.

1075
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:06.719
It's just weird how actions got sort of less interesting as time's

1076
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:08.940
gone on in the 90s into the 2000s.

1077
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:09.960
Nothing's at stake.

1078
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:11.579
Why are we even still here?

1079
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:14.880
You know, I would have loved for him to die like this falling off

1080
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:15.599
this paddle.

1081
00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:16.860
Yeah.

1082
00:48:17.099 --> 00:48:21.480
So, I mean, that, like that's what's happening, isn't it?

1083
00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:24.059
Is it supposed to be tense because we think Tripp's going to die?

1084
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:27.900
A truly heroic death in the service of saving Schran's daughter

1085
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:28.260
you know?

1086
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1087
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:31.139
By falling off a theme.

1088
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:34.679
Instead what happens, what he saves Archer and gets electrocuted

1089
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:35.159
or something.

1090
00:48:35.219 --> 00:48:38.519
He saves, yeah, killing those guys. blows them up.

1091
00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:39.659
So boring.

1092
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:41.699
What a boring way to go.

1093
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:43.800
Actually, I think it's better than.

1094
00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:48.360
At least Jadzia gets fried alive by evil gold to cut as he's taken

1095
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:49.139
the wormhole out.

1096
00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:52.079
I know, but it's more exciting than this.

1097
00:48:52.139 --> 00:48:53.280
Well, yeah.

1098
00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:57.119
But it's very definitely, it's so that the kids at home know that

1099
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:02.039
it's purely contractual, you know, that she's dying in the finale

1100
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:05.219
just because Terry's not banking.

1101
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.199
She gets the ultimate soap line, isn't she?

1102
00:49:07.260 --> 00:49:07.920
You know, about a baby.

1103
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:08.820
Oh my god.

1104
00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:09.599
So bad.

1105
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:12.480
I can't say I felt anything there either.

1106
00:49:12.539 --> 00:49:14.760
I laughed a lot, yeah?

1107
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.460
Wow, pink skin.

1108
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:18.360
Yeah.

1109
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:19.800
Still doing that.

1110
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:22.739
Yeah, we're still doing that, even though it really only works for

1111
00:49:22.739 --> 00:49:23.340
white people.

1112
00:49:24.539 --> 00:49:26.460
Oh, well, that's it.

1113
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:27.000
We've done that.

1114
00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:29.039
We can end the episode down.

1115
00:49:29.099 --> 00:49:30.900
Yeah, yeah. let's just head off.

1116
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:33.059
It's time for him to write his speech.

1117
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:36.059
How did they come up all the enterprise?

1118
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:38.159
I think I've zoned out at that point.

1119
00:49:38.219 --> 00:49:39.119
I don't know.

1120
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:41.280
No, they're on a on a shuttle.

1121
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:43.139
Beautiful shot.

1122
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:46.199
I did like these fabulous rocks past the windows in the

1123
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:46.739
Enterprise.

1124
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:51.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah Does that happen in Pegasus?

1125
00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:53.280
I can't remember No, it's the sort of thing they couldn't really

1126
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:54.599
do back in the day, isn't it?

1127
00:49:54.659 --> 00:49:56.940
So now they're taking advantage of that.

1128
00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:01.260
I like having data for one last little interaction too.

1129
00:50:01.739 --> 00:50:04.559
Well, until Picard comes along, of course.

1130
00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:05.820
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1131
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:10.260
But like that's a while away now and look, look how much Marina

1132
00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:11.400
loves Brand, bless her.

1133
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.760
I mean, imagine if this was how we would have seen next generation

1134
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:17.579
off as well. in this dreary episode.

1135
00:50:18.300 --> 00:50:20.400
I mean, I'm very pleased.

1136
00:50:20.460 --> 00:50:22.860
I know I had a few issues with that Picard Series 3.

1137
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:26.099
But boy, I boy, did they celebrate the next generation in that

1138
00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:26.340
season?

1139
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.679
Yeah, yeah, it's so great.

1140
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:32.699
Oh, no, or that side shot on his tummy.

1141
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:33.239
I'm sorry.

1142
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:35.280
I know, I know, I know.

1143
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:37.860
Yeah. happens to us all.

1144
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:40.619
I'm just literally 11 years ago.

1145
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:44.940
We saw that sort of lovely swelt William Riker from Skin of Evil

1146
00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:45.840
the other day, didn't we?

1147
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:46.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1148
00:50:46.860 --> 00:50:48.719
Well, you know, that's all right.

1149
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:50.159
Yes.

1150
00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:53.219
Marina somehow looks more beautiful though.

1151
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.440
Yeah, she's so fabulous.

1152
00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:58.500
I mean, I don't know what they would do with her in series one.

1153
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:01.260
They put that bun on her head and that horrible black question.

1154
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:01.800
That's terrible.

1155
00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:04.079
She looks gorgeous in a Starfleet uniform.

1156
00:51:04.139 --> 00:51:07.260
See, I don't know why we're going through all this.

1157
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:12.059
And I think that this is a complete waste of our time.

1158
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:13.320
Oh, so you mean this scene?

1159
00:51:13.380 --> 00:51:14.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1160
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:19.139
It just goes on for too long and like, we are sort of, like, I

1161
00:51:19.139 --> 00:51:23.400
don't think we do a particularly good job of motivating, like, why

1162
00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:25.139
is Riker watching this episode?

1163
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:31.440
Um, you know, in particular, and they kind of sort of try and make

1164
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:32.760
it work, but it doesn't quite work.

1165
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:35.880
Oh, she...

1166
00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:38.760
I mean, they did this scene in best of both worlds, you know, when

1167
00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:41.519
she says to him, you know, you're getting a little seasoned, you

1168
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:42.960
know, in your old age.

1169
00:51:43.019 --> 00:51:45.000
It was a lot better then.

1170
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:51.420
Look, here we get, here we get Reed talking about...

1171
00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:56.400
There's actually one moment where they nearly out, he was gay, and

1172
00:51:56.400 --> 00:52:02.340
then, like, they queer bait, and then, um, and then walk away from

1173
00:52:02.340 --> 00:52:05.820
it as a kind of joke, and I'll kind of give them that, I think.

1174
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:11.579
So you've got him talking about Reed, talking about Tripp.

1175
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:15.300
Um, Nothing very much.

1176
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.300
Yeah, did you ever find yourself attracted to him, Riker says.

1177
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:25.440
And then we discover that he's talking to Hoshi. 15 seconds.

1178
00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:28.260
Yeah, that's all he gets, this, that's all he gets.

1179
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:29.760
No wonder he was pissed.

1180
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.079
Well, he's got nothing.

1181
00:52:31.139 --> 00:52:33.000
What are we going to talk to read about?

1182
00:52:33.059 --> 00:52:36.719
Like, honestly, can we just come to some conclusions about these

1183
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:37.199
characters?

1184
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:42.719
I know they're nothing characters. 15 seconds with Riker in the

1185
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:43.199
holodeck.

1186
00:52:43.260 --> 00:52:43.559
I mean.

1187
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:48.719
Oh, here's Anti Montgomery.

1188
00:52:48.780 --> 00:52:50.760
Yeah, they get hardly anything.

1189
00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:52.320
I would have made him the star of the show.

1190
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:53.340
Look at him. gorgeous.

1191
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:54.420
Yeah, yeah.

1192
00:52:54.539 --> 00:52:58.320
He's just young and pretty and like there was going to be

1193
00:52:58.320 --> 00:52:59.760
something generational about him.

1194
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:04.260
He was like a young person who'd grown up in space, you know, I

1195
00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:06.000
don't know, there's just a missed opportunity.

1196
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:08.760
Oh, he was very humble, actually, when he was talking on that big

1197
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:11.639
group interview and he said, look, I go, I didn't get much to do

1198
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:14.519
but I got to hang out with these fabulous people for years.

1199
00:53:14.579 --> 00:53:15.480
So never mind.

1200
00:53:15.539 --> 00:53:17.280
It is a great shame.

1201
00:53:17.340 --> 00:53:19.619
It would have been great if you got to hang out with them and have

1202
00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:21.000
some good things to do as well.

1203
00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:22.980
I like this.

1204
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:24.300
This is pretty great.

1205
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:28.199
Here's Dr. Fox and any scene with Dr. Fox is really good.

1206
00:53:28.260 --> 00:53:30.599
Literally the best character in Enterprise.

1207
00:53:30.659 --> 00:53:31.800
He should have been there.

1208
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.639
He should have been.

1209
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:34.559
It should have been his daughter they were going after.

1210
00:53:34.619 --> 00:53:36.179
We've established he's got children.

1211
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:42.539
Yeah, so like this, like it's really funny, like he, he orders him

1212
00:53:42.539 --> 00:53:47.099
to get 6 hours sleep and Tripp negotiates him down, talks him down

1213
00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:51.659
to four. and like, that's actually quite cute, you know, like, and

1214
00:53:51.659 --> 00:53:54.360
you've got, you've got flocks doing some cooking and kind of

1215
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:55.019
enjoying it.

1216
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.900
Like, there is something nice about all of this, I think.

1217
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:01.440
Like, that's just a little bit of time to celebrate the crew.

1218
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:02.699
We can be done with more.

1219
00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:03.599
BC.

1220
00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:06.239
These are scenes we get in strange new worlds every week.

1221
00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:09.420
Oh yeah, but you don't get them in Enterprise.

1222
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:11.460
We celebrate the end of the show.

1223
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:14.039
We should have had in series one.

1224
00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:15.719
But it's too late for that now.

1225
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:17.699
So at least they're here now.

1226
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:18.659
Do you know what I mean?

1227
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:19.559
Like that's it.

1228
00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:22.619
Thank you for getting around to showing them cooking.

1229
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:24.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

1230
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:27.719
I love those things with Captain Pike when he's cooking.

1231
00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:29.159
When Cisco's cooking as well.

1232
00:54:29.219 --> 00:54:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

1233
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:32.519
When I've done it, I've done it.

1234
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:33.900
And he's got a bit over the top with it.

1235
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:37.980
But here we get mentions Ephraim Cochrane again and the father and

1236
00:54:37.980 --> 00:54:38.340
stuff.

1237
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:42.840
And here we get, and it would have been better, I think, to have

1238
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:47.639
had, have made this the through line for the actual enterprise

1239
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:52.079
episode where it's, he hasn't written his speech yet.

1240
00:54:52.139 --> 00:54:56.519
And we only get it mentioned here for the 1st time, and we're, what

1241
00:54:56.519 --> 00:55:01.320
15 minutes from the end, and that's going to be the thing, and the

1242
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:05.820
episode ends, like Archer Story ends with him striding out towards

1243
00:55:05.820 --> 00:55:07.380
the podium, you know.

1244
00:55:07.380 --> 00:55:09.659
We get all this false tension before then.

1245
00:55:09.659 --> 00:55:11.460
And a pointless death.

1246
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:13.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1247
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:14.280
What is this?

1248
00:55:14.340 --> 00:55:15.420
I know.

1249
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:16.260
How do they get on?

1250
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:19.980
Like they had a warp to ship, you know, like...

1251
00:55:19.980 --> 00:55:21.719
There was just a sort of wobble off the camera.

1252
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:22.559
So that was it.

1253
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:23.940
That's them.

1254
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.159
There you go, Alan, that's Alan earning his money this week.

1255
00:55:26.219 --> 00:55:30.000
We've abandoned all of the sort of ghastly racism we had in series

1256
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.280
one that made everyone so unlikeable.

1257
00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:33.900
So we have made a few strides.

1258
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:38.699
Yeah, we kind of have, but I mean, still mostly aliens are evil.

1259
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:45.300
And there's one moment that I quite liked where, yeah, so he

1260
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:51.480
punches Archer, he punches Archer and then saves him, like this is

1261
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:52.500
to save his life.

1262
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.739
But there's a scene a bit later where they say, you know, Tripp

1263
00:55:55.739 --> 00:55:58.739
would have thought it was worthwhile, even though it ended in this

1264
00:55:58.739 --> 00:55:59.400
terrible way.

1265
00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:03.659
Even though, you know, so many of our encounters with aliens went

1266
00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:05.519
bad, it was still worth it.

1267
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:09.599
I felt, as well, in this scene, there was a bit of awkward

1268
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:12.900
blocking and it felt a bit improvised as well with the acting.

1269
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:17.039
It felt like a 1st take version of this scene rather than that.

1270
00:56:17.099 --> 00:56:19.739
It's almost like, shit, the terror down the sets, get in that

1271
00:56:19.739 --> 00:56:21.059
corridor and shoot that scene now.

1272
00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:22.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1273
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:24.420
There was a bit of that, wasn't there?

1274
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:28.380
They literally said that, yeah, as they were filming, as they were

1275
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:31.440
doing the last shot with each one, they were tearing them down.

1276
00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:31.739
Yeah.

1277
00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:34.260
But apparently that happened with Voyager and DS9 as well.

1278
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:37.199
Oh, that promenade set being torn down.

1279
00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:38.099
What a crime.

1280
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:40.980
They've remade it in Las Vegas nature.

1281
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:41.699
We'll go one day.

1282
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:45.059
Yes, we should do that. drinking corks bar.

1283
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:48.960
So, so, yes.

1284
00:56:49.019 --> 00:56:50.940
And like I had never watched this before.

1285
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:54.179
I knew that he was bluffing and that these had nothing to do with

1286
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:55.619
communications and stuff.

1287
00:56:56.820 --> 00:57:01.980
But yeah, all of this, like this is such a low rent threat and

1288
00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:05.159
where he has to kill himself in order to get out of it.

1289
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:06.539
Mid season jeopardy, isn't it?

1290
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:08.460
It's worse than that, though.

1291
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:09.480
I think it'd be bad.

1292
00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:11.219
It's like mid-episode Jeopardy.

1293
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:12.300
Do you know what I mean?

1294
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:14.460
Like, it's not even the final threat.

1295
00:57:14.579 --> 00:57:17.880
The client, the final jeopardy of the series.

1296
00:57:17.940 --> 00:57:19.199
Yeah, yeah.

1297
00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:20.820
Yeah, this.

1298
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:21.360
There he goes.

1299
00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:22.380
They're all dead.

1300
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.139
Even that explosion was a bit lame, wouldn't it?

1301
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:28.260
It's just like sort of nothing puff of smoke.

1302
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:32.460
Yeah, so he isn't too blowed up, you know, when he gets to Sick

1303
00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:33.179
Bay, I guess.

1304
00:57:33.300 --> 00:57:35.639
Ah, so that can all sort of...

1305
00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:38.820
Well, because he does a little wink and a thumbs up as he goes

1306
00:57:38.820 --> 00:57:40.019
gets pushed into the thing.

1307
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:42.119
They do blow these enterprise steps up quite well, though.

1308
00:57:42.179 --> 00:57:43.980
That's a big destruction, very good.

1309
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:49.380
That's really great. torn holes in the wall and exposed wires.

1310
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:53.639
Although, nothing's as good as that one in series 3 when all the

1311
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:56.219
Zindi ships blow the shit out of the enterprise and the singling

1312
00:57:56.219 --> 00:57:56.760
falls down.

1313
00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:57.300
That's great.

1314
00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:01.920
It's so bad we've lost the ceiling.

1315
00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:03.420
He's dead.

1316
00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:06.360
There's Riken there again to remind us all.

1317
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:07.559
I know. going stop saying it.

1318
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:08.820
Well, that's why he's watching it.

1319
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:10.739
To remind us that it's a TV show.

1320
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.300
It really is a TV show.

1321
00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:13.739
It's not a TV show.

1322
00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:15.000
It is yourself.

1323
00:58:16.500 --> 00:58:19.019
It's real life, though.

1324
00:58:19.139 --> 00:58:21.000
This is trip apologising.

1325
00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:24.300
They should have made it clear that Flux was giving him a lot of

1326
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:25.079
drugs at this point.

1327
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:27.179
Oh, actually.

1328
00:58:27.179 --> 00:58:30.119
That's a lot better than Tashios, blah, blah, blah, isn't it?

1329
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:31.739
I saw a few weeks ago.

1330
00:58:32.219 --> 00:58:39.300
Although, you know, imagine if we had that...

1331
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:42.780
But that's, I mean, I quite like that interchange as well where

1332
00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:45.360
Tripp is absolutely concerned about the mission.

1333
00:58:45.420 --> 00:58:49.260
Like, you know, he sacrifices himself to save Archer so that

1334
00:58:49.260 --> 00:58:50.579
Archer can give that speech.

1335
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:54.719
And so when Archer says, I'll be able to write my speech, he goes

1336
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:55.260
great news.

1337
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:57.780
And this is the, and this is the thing.

1338
00:58:57.840 --> 00:58:58.739
This is the thing.

1339
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:03.179
When we kill him in the final episode, in a sense, it doesn't

1340
00:59:03.179 --> 00:59:06.179
matter because we don't miss out on him.

1341
00:59:06.300 --> 00:59:12.480
But I think that they make the point really, really well, in a

1342
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:17.159
scene that absolutely surprised and impressed me, that I thought

1343
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:20.519
was a very unusual thing, Star Trek to do.

1344
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:23.880
There is no impression at all.

1345
00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:25.440
Scuba diving off Florida.

1346
00:59:25.500 --> 00:59:28.920
In fact, which is what annoyed me about this was that they waited

1347
00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:31.260
till the last episode where they don't have to deal with this

1348
00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:31.980
afterwards.

1349
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:34.019
At least with Terry Farrell.

1350
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:36.239
We had a year afterwards where we dealt with the emotional

1351
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:36.840
consequences.

1352
00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:43.139
To be fair, that was, you know, forced on them.

1353
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.619
Due to the producers being bricks. not having a conversation with

1354
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:47.280
her about pay.

1355
00:59:48.659 --> 00:59:54.420
This, and I love this scene, actually, and it's about, like, it

1356
00:59:54.420 --> 01:00:00.179
mentions her mother who we saw die earlier in series 4 in the, you

1357
01:00:00.179 --> 01:00:03.900
know, Keshara episode that we watched, where Tapul's mother was

1358
01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:06.780
killed, and we were introduced to her as a sort of semi-regular

1359
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:14.340
character for a few episodes, and she talks about how Tripp told

1360
01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:17.820
her that the pain would lessen.

1361
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:21.119
She would miss her less as time went on.

1362
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:24.480
And she said, but that's not been my experience.

1363
01:00:24.539 --> 01:00:25.500
I miss her more.

1364
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:29.760
And so we'd had them talking about missing one another.

1365
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:35.280
And, like, I just, yeah, this, Tripp told me as the years went by

1366
01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:36.599
that I would miss her less.

1367
01:00:36.659 --> 01:00:40.019
And like, the dialogue's not that great, but I think it's a nice

1368
01:00:40.019 --> 01:00:40.920
moment.

1369
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:44.820
And I think, like, if you're, you have to have something that

1370
01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:47.940
they're going to act about, you know, and you have to have

1371
01:00:47.940 --> 01:00:50.820
something that's going to motivate them talking about, if we kill

1372
01:00:50.820 --> 01:00:53.400
him in this final episode, we never miss him in a way.

1373
01:00:53.460 --> 01:00:58.260
Um, and it's kind of sad if you think that this is all real and he

1374
01:00:58.260 --> 01:01:00.900
doesn't go on to have a rich and happy life because we were never

1375
01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:01.440
going to see that.

1376
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:02.699
We were never going to see him again.

1377
01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:04.019
So in a way, it doesn't matter.

1378
01:01:04.139 --> 01:01:11.340
Um, So, so I didn't feel that it was as gratuitous and as kind of

1379
01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:15.360
mean spirited as I thought it must have been originally, because

1380
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:17.760
it gives the characters the chance to react in this way.

1381
01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:22.980
There is something about these whispers of performances that just

1382
01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:27.300
don't move me in a way that the best of Voyager, you know, Kate

1383
01:01:27.300 --> 01:01:32.219
Mulgrew and Jerry Ryan, and the best of DS9, Nana Visitor, and

1384
01:01:32.219 --> 01:01:36.480
when they have dialogue scenes like this, they really move me.

1385
01:01:36.539 --> 01:01:38.159
I just got nothing from this.

1386
01:01:38.219 --> 01:01:42.179
Well, I just don't think you can blame this episode for that

1387
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:42.480
though.

1388
01:01:42.539 --> 01:01:45.539
No, no, I mean, it's a show in general, but they're trying to make

1389
01:01:45.539 --> 01:01:48.420
a point here and they're trying to move you and it's not

1390
01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:48.719
happening.

1391
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:51.239
See, I like that.

1392
01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:55.860
I like, and that look, and his look, like, I was a little bit

1393
01:01:55.860 --> 01:01:58.739
worried that he would be too stoic, and this, I think this is

1394
01:01:58.739 --> 01:01:59.159
wonderful.

1395
01:01:59.219 --> 01:02:00.900
His trip.

1396
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:05.039
He's back because he's not really dead.

1397
01:02:05.099 --> 01:02:08.699
He's a character in a TV show and we can see him.

1398
01:02:08.699 --> 01:02:10.380
I really do think that we want.

1399
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:13.619
I would like to point us out. only you think this way.

1400
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:17.340
Everybody else is like, okay, he's just died and here he is

1401
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:17.579
again.

1402
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:19.679
Well, because...

1403
01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:20.880
The TV show.

1404
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:24.599
And so we get to see him and I think that is so much better.

1405
01:02:24.659 --> 01:02:28.019
This is what they tried to do with Tasha.

1406
01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:28.980
Do you know what I mean?

1407
01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:31.980
It's like, let's have her alive and she's in heaven and she gets a

1408
01:02:31.980 --> 01:02:34.139
chance to tell everyone how much she loves.

1409
01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:37.440
But this, I love this.

1410
01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:39.960
Like, he talks to him.

1411
01:02:40.019 --> 01:02:44.639
He knows how this ends for him and then he goes back in time and

1412
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:49.079
gets the chance to talk to him and we get to see how charming and

1413
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:50.699
beautiful he is.

1414
01:02:50.940 --> 01:02:52.139
Look at him.

1415
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.119
He's just so adorable.

1416
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:57.840
Do you feel like the death of Joyce Summers in Buffy would have

1417
01:02:57.840 --> 01:02:59.340
been better at the end of the episode?

1418
01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:02.820
We haven't seen where she walked in and talked to Buffy.

1419
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:05.699
I don't want to mind that as a Star Trek.

1420
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:07.019
No, it would have been.

1421
01:03:07.019 --> 01:03:08.039
I don't want to say that.

1422
01:03:08.099 --> 01:03:14.340
No, but you do get vampires in the final scene of that episode, the

1423
01:03:14.340 --> 01:03:20.579
body, just to remind you of what this show is really about and to

1424
01:03:20.579 --> 01:03:23.400
say something about death in a very odd way.

1425
01:03:23.460 --> 01:03:24.960
But fear.

1426
01:03:25.019 --> 01:03:29.820
It's so odd to juxtapose his death scene and then then reacting to

1427
01:03:29.820 --> 01:03:30.360
his death.

1428
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:31.980
I think it's terrible.

1429
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:33.539
No, it's awful.

1430
01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:34.380
No.

1431
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:37.079
It's a series of bad choices.

1432
01:03:37.139 --> 01:03:37.980
This is one of the worst.

1433
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:40.860
No, this is the final say.

1434
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.860
Finally, we don't, the last time that we've seen him.

1435
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:49.199
We get to see him smiling and beautiful and we get to remember him

1436
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:52.800
and it's wistful because he does...

1437
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:55.619
Oh, he asks, he asks Chef about the future.

1438
01:03:58.980 --> 01:04:00.960
Yeah, I love that.

1439
01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:03.360
I just think, you know, he's not real.

1440
01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:06.179
He's, you know, the death of the character.

1441
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:10.500
It's a thing and it gets the characters to react, but we get to go

1442
01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:11.880
back and we get to see him.

1443
01:04:11.940 --> 01:04:15.119
And because we could have done that in a flashback.

1444
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:16.739
I know this.

1445
01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:20.579
We could have done that in a flashback, but instead Riker creates

1446
01:04:20.579 --> 01:04:23.340
the flashback. does a flashback for us.

1447
01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:25.440
That's so...

1448
01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:27.960
To me, it just feels like it's just fundamentally misunderstand

1449
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:29.340
how to traumatise something.

1450
01:04:29.820 --> 01:04:36.360
No, I think that you're, I think that...

1451
01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:39.000
Yeah, I think that you're that person.

1452
01:04:39.059 --> 01:04:43.440
It's a TV show and this is a TV drama and it's using the things

1453
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:44.760
that TV drama can do.

1454
01:04:44.820 --> 01:04:48.719
But sometimes when I'm watching a TV show, I like to forget it's a

1455
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:51.000
TV show and just enjoy it on its own terms.

1456
01:04:51.059 --> 01:04:54.960
I don't need to be reminded every 5 minutes that it's a TV show.

1457
01:04:55.019 --> 01:04:57.900
No, but you don't, it shouldn't need to be reminded.

1458
01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:59.099
It's clearly a TV show.

1459
01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:00.539
Like, that's the thing.

1460
01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:05.340
And so watching how stories unfold watching what the writers are

1461
01:05:05.340 --> 01:05:07.920
deciding to do, watching what the directors are deciding to do

1462
01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:09.179
that's the pleasure.

1463
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:12.659
Like the pleasure is not just, you know, disappearing into a world

1464
01:05:12.659 --> 01:05:14.340
where there are these characters.

1465
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:18.539
It's being told a story by skilled people who are making

1466
01:05:18.539 --> 01:05:19.260
decisions.

1467
01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:23.340
Because I'm not talking a story, not a wife.

1468
01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:24.300
That's true.

1469
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:25.079
That's true.

1470
01:05:25.139 --> 01:05:26.699
I like this scene too.

1471
01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:31.800
Unfortunately, a series by people that fundamentally dismantled

1472
01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:36.420
the franchise and murdered.

1473
01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:37.739
And here's a good example of why.

1474
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:42.420
Nah, so, but this, I mean, I kind of like this.

1475
01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:47.820
So they were talking about staying with, um, you know, like, uh, I

1476
01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:52.199
think Travis and and Malcolm were going to stay with with Archer

1477
01:05:52.199 --> 01:05:53.099
or something like that.

1478
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:55.800
Oh, here's Billy for the last...

1479
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:59.159
I like this bit, you got the 2 best characters here, to poll and

1480
01:05:59.159 --> 01:05:59.579
flocks.

1481
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:01.320
I'm an acute moment with Archer.

1482
01:06:01.380 --> 01:06:03.000
Okay, that's quite nice.

1483
01:06:03.059 --> 01:06:04.800
And the smile.

1484
01:06:04.860 --> 01:06:05.880
We get the smile.

1485
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:11.519
I just don't think that CGI audience was acceptable even then.

1486
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:13.739
No, but the smile is pretty great.

1487
01:06:13.739 --> 01:06:15.239
That smile is good.

1488
01:06:15.300 --> 01:06:16.679
And I like this.

1489
01:06:16.739 --> 01:06:20.579
I do like that he walks out there and we don't quite see it

1490
01:06:20.579 --> 01:06:21.000
happen.

1491
01:06:21.059 --> 01:06:24.659
Well, you know that the Federation gets founded because it's been

1492
01:06:24.659 --> 01:06:25.980
there all episode.

1493
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:28.679
I thought it was a good summation of the show.

1494
01:06:28.739 --> 01:06:30.239
Enterprise ducking the moment.

1495
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:34.500
Oh, no, no, I think that's a deliberate thing that you do.

1496
01:06:34.559 --> 01:06:38.940
It's a little bit, the thing that it reminds me of. is the end of

1497
01:06:38.940 --> 01:06:41.820
Angel, which ends mid...

1498
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:43.260
They're just about to have a fight.

1499
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:45.179
Are you using this in your defence?

1500
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:47.280
And Wesley's about to die.

1501
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:50.579
And we never find out what happens.

1502
01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:51.719
Do you know what I mean?

1503
01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:54.780
And like the thing that you get to do in a TV show, which this one

1504
01:06:54.780 --> 01:07:00.119
does, and like the others, the others may be, maybe what you leave

1505
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:04.679
behind, but none of them aggressively, as aggressively goes, and

1506
01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:09.360
we're done with this story, and it's going to end at this, this

1507
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:14.280
point before something hugely important happens, and you know that

1508
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:15.119
it's going to be important.

1509
01:07:15.179 --> 01:07:16.139
I like it.

1510
01:07:16.199 --> 01:07:17.940
Marino in the background or that shock.

1511
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:21.780
She's never quite sure what to do until Riker turns up.

1512
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:24.360
So she's just sort of like, oh, what a lovely scene.

1513
01:07:24.420 --> 01:07:25.320
Watching telly.

1514
01:07:25.380 --> 01:07:26.460
She's watching telly.

1515
01:07:26.519 --> 01:07:26.940
That's it.

1516
01:07:30.420 --> 01:07:33.059
That, yeah, yeah, here we go.

1517
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:33.780
There you go.

1518
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:37.139
Tell us how important all this was for the last 4 years.

1519
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:38.219
Yeah.

1520
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:39.059
Yeah, yeah.

1521
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:42.780
Well, it's part of the problem is the show never ended up being

1522
01:07:42.780 --> 01:07:43.260
about anything.

1523
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:46.139
Because we're done it, she said. let's go.

1524
01:07:46.199 --> 01:07:48.119
This whole from show.

1525
01:07:48.179 --> 01:07:49.920
End program.

1526
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:50.880
Turn it off.

1527
01:07:50.940 --> 01:07:52.619
Isn't that great?

1528
01:07:52.679 --> 01:07:54.300
I love that computer end program.

1529
01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:59.280
That's like the end of, what's the, uh, ship in a bottle, the end

1530
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:01.800
of ship in a bottle where they say computer end program.

1531
01:08:01.860 --> 01:08:02.760
Was it not real?

1532
01:08:02.820 --> 01:08:03.420
None of it.

1533
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:04.920
They just walked out of a fake room.

1534
01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:09.900
Well, nothing on Star Trek has been real since shipping a bottle.

1535
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:10.860
It is.

1536
01:08:10.860 --> 01:08:13.500
They never left the thing.

1537
01:08:13.559 --> 01:08:14.579
Oh, please.

1538
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:16.619
That would be the best West ever.

1539
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:19.319
Picard leaves his jacket in there.

1540
01:08:19.380 --> 01:08:22.500
Like he literally comes out with a different jacket.

1541
01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:24.720
He's a lovely letter to the franchise.

1542
01:08:24.779 --> 01:08:27.060
Kirk, Picard, and Archer.

1543
01:08:27.659 --> 01:08:28.619
Archer Yeah.

1544
01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:30.239
Or Kate Mulgrew.

1545
01:08:30.300 --> 01:08:33.060
No, no, no, but that's not the enterprise, is it?

1546
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:34.439
You know, like, that's it.

1547
01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:36.359
It's the end to me.

1548
01:08:36.659 --> 01:08:38.159
I love letters to the franchise.

1549
01:08:38.220 --> 01:08:40.199
Oh, so the Enterprise.

1550
01:08:40.199 --> 01:08:44.819
It's a love letter to Enterprise, the show, I think. pretty

1551
01:08:44.819 --> 01:08:45.239
clearly.

1552
01:08:45.300 --> 01:08:48.000
It's sort of like a poison pen layer, do you think?

1553
01:08:48.060 --> 01:08:52.500
No, no, I think they've, I think they've...

1554
01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:53.340
Yeah.

1555
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:58.800
I mean, look, like this is my least favourite Star Trek, I think.

1556
01:08:58.859 --> 01:09:01.739
Well, that's the animated series.

1557
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:03.539
Oh, that doesn't even count.

1558
01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:05.340
Yeah.

1559
01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:08.100
It's like a pamphlet, isn't it?

1560
01:09:08.220 --> 01:09:10.920
Yeah, it's my least favourite one that's actually making an

1561
01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:11.340
effort.

1562
01:09:11.460 --> 01:09:13.859
And I'd never kind of watched it much before.

1563
01:09:13.859 --> 01:09:16.319
Untitled Star Trek project came along.

1564
01:09:16.380 --> 01:09:20.520
And sometimes I'm furious at it and sometimes, you know, there are

1565
01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:23.640
things that it does that I think are really, really misconceived.

1566
01:09:23.699 --> 01:09:27.060
And it's clearly being made by people who don't really give a shit

1567
01:09:27.060 --> 01:09:28.979
about the politics of Star Trek at all.

1568
01:09:29.039 --> 01:09:34.800
And oh, knackered, creatively knackered.

1569
01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:40.079
And so, you know, like, I think that they had the right to look

1570
01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:43.020
back on something they created.

1571
01:09:43.079 --> 01:09:48.359
I think that centring it around trip was a great idea because I

1572
01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:54.119
think I think the doctor is like he's a character part, isn't he?

1573
01:09:54.180 --> 01:09:57.960
Like he's the character that I enjoy the most, but he's scenery in

1574
01:09:57.960 --> 01:09:59.279
a way, I think.

1575
01:09:59.340 --> 01:10:01.920
He's not as developed a character as Tripp.

1576
01:10:01.979 --> 01:10:06.000
And I think, you know, you've got trip to Poland Archer doing

1577
01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:12.840
maybe the best recreation of the original 3 from Star Trek, the

1578
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:13.500
original series.

1579
01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:15.479
Ale imitation.

1580
01:10:15.539 --> 01:10:19.739
Oh, nowhere near as good, but definitely that's the that's the

1581
01:10:19.739 --> 01:10:20.819
best attempt at it.

1582
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:22.020
You know, the...

1583
01:10:22.020 --> 01:10:24.720
Now we're exploring TOS, you know, and seeing it.

1584
01:10:25.260 --> 01:10:28.020
Vital and alive on the screen.

1585
01:10:28.140 --> 01:10:32.460
Yeah, yeah, people whisper it in gray rooms is, yeah, yeah.

1586
01:10:32.520 --> 01:10:35.579
But, you know, like Conor Trinier is great.

1587
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:37.020
John Blaylock is great.

1588
01:10:37.079 --> 01:10:41.340
You know, Bacula's fine on his day, hampered by a kind of horrible

1589
01:10:41.340 --> 01:10:41.819
character.

1590
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:45.239
But like it wasn't all a complete waste of time.

1591
01:10:45.300 --> 01:10:50.640
It was still Star Trek, and I liked the fact that even though it

1592
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:55.199
had failed, I think what they're doing here isn't saying we need

1593
01:10:55.199 --> 01:11:00.300
to rush Jonathan and Marina over here stat before the patient sort

1594
01:11:00.300 --> 01:11:06.659
of haemorrhages to death, I think they bring them back as a way of

1595
01:11:06.659 --> 01:11:08.939
paying a tribute to the show and what the show has been.

1596
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:13.020
And to try and make the show something a little bit more momentous

1597
01:11:13.020 --> 01:11:14.039
than it actually was.

1598
01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:22.979
Okay, like it's a 4 script, being endured by a crew that's just

1599
01:11:22.979 --> 01:11:25.979
had enough of this nonsense now, that just acting their way

1600
01:11:25.979 --> 01:11:26.340
through it.

1601
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:28.859
I don't think on any level.

1602
01:11:28.920 --> 01:11:31.800
I said to you in a message, I don't think it even appears above

1603
01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:37.260
average at any point, you know, it would be barely acceptable as

1604
01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:38.399
in the midseason episode.

1605
01:11:38.460 --> 01:11:42.060
It's not a triumphant way to see out this show.

1606
01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:45.000
And I just had no investment in it.

1607
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:46.199
That's my biggest problem.

1608
01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:48.960
My biggest into Star Trek, is the characters.

1609
01:11:49.020 --> 01:11:52.560
And, you know, even on TNG where they're paper thin.

1610
01:11:52.619 --> 01:11:55.560
I can get behind them because the performances are so good and

1611
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.500
their chemistry is so great and they still make me feel things

1612
01:11:58.500 --> 01:12:00.060
even when the writing isn't there.

1613
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:03.060
I just felt nothing watching this at all.

1614
01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:05.819
And I just wanted it to be over with.

1615
01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:09.420
And I guess that's a true fitting tribute for me at enterprise

1616
01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:11.579
just wanted it to be over with.

1617
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:13.560
Yeah, I know I've been mean.

1618
01:12:13.619 --> 01:12:16.380
I know I've been mean, but I've been honest as well, because I

1619
01:12:16.380 --> 01:12:17.640
feel like we have to on this thing.

1620
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:20.880
And it's not like, maybe I went into this expecting to not like

1621
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:21.180
it.

1622
01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:23.819
I don't think I expected to be as bored as I was.

1623
01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:32.220
So for me, the the 2 part finale that precedes this, um, is good

1624
01:12:32.220 --> 01:12:35.579
and it deals with some heart to it and it.

1625
01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:37.260
It had something to say, I think.

1626
01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:42.300
Yeah, it deals with some of the themes that the show sort of is

1627
01:12:42.300 --> 01:12:45.420
working towards, even though it's the sort of stuff that is kind

1628
01:12:45.420 --> 01:12:50.819
of, you know, well trodden ground in Deep Space 9 by this point.

1629
01:12:51.060 --> 01:12:56.460
But it was pretty limited in its ambitions and it was a story

1630
01:12:56.460 --> 01:13:00.600
whose resolution was, we're not ready for the Federation yet.

1631
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:04.560
So it ends with a, with a note of failure.

1632
01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:08.579
One day we'll be able to do this, but we're not ready for it yet.

1633
01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:12.899
And so here, what they do is they go for something more ambitious

1634
01:13:12.899 --> 01:13:17.279
and something more important to the history of the franchise, and

1635
01:13:17.279 --> 01:13:21.960
they swing and miss, but I think the attempt was worth making.

1636
01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:33.300
Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to

1637
01:13:33.300 --> 01:13:36.060
work out where we are going next.

1638
01:13:36.119 --> 01:13:39.899
I chose Enterprise for my sins.

1639
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:41.640
And so now it's your turn.

1640
01:13:41.699 --> 01:13:43.979
So, what are we going to be watching?

1641
01:13:44.039 --> 01:13:47.399
Your sins are racking up, you know, with these choices?

1642
01:13:48.779 --> 01:13:55.260
Well, since, you know, she was a little neglected in the love

1643
01:13:55.260 --> 01:13:58.800
lesson to the franchise that we just watched, I would like us to

1644
01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:02.640
watch an exciting adventure featuring Captain Catherine Janeway

1645
01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:04.619
from Star Trek Voyager.

1646
01:14:04.680 --> 01:14:06.239
Okay, excellent.

1647
01:14:06.300 --> 01:14:07.319
That sounds like a great choice.

1648
01:14:07.380 --> 01:14:08.760
I'm excited by the prospect of that.

1649
01:14:08.819 --> 01:14:09.539
Oh, dear.

1650
01:14:09.600 --> 01:14:10.859
Straight away. push the button.

1651
01:14:10.920 --> 01:14:12.420
That's what we've done, state of flux.

1652
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:13.920
Okay, in mind.

1653
01:14:13.979 --> 01:14:15.359
Okay.

1654
01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:16.619
That's a good one. yeah.

1655
01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:19.020
Okay, scientific method.

1656
01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:22.020
Series four, episode seven.

1657
01:14:22.199 --> 01:14:26.579
Oh, that's the one where they, they all get covered in spots and

1658
01:14:26.579 --> 01:14:26.819
stuff.

1659
01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:27.539
It's very boring.

1660
01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:33.659
It's like a science versus religion one where Janeway kind of has

1661
01:14:33.659 --> 01:14:35.039
to confront something.

1662
01:14:35.100 --> 01:14:38.520
Is it alien, like some kind of weird alien thing?

1663
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:39.659
It's so forgettable.

1664
01:14:39.720 --> 01:14:42.600
I've completely forgotten, but I just remember Chakotay has spots

1665
01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:43.260
in it at one point.

1666
01:14:43.319 --> 01:14:44.159
Okay.

1667
01:14:44.220 --> 01:14:45.840
Okay, should we go somewhere else?

1668
01:14:45.899 --> 01:14:46.439
should do it.

1669
01:14:46.500 --> 01:14:47.579
No, let's do something else.

1670
01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:48.119
Okay.

1671
01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:52.500
Your random Star Trek Voyage episode is season 6 or we do go there

1672
01:14:52.500 --> 01:14:53.159
quite a bit.

1673
01:14:53.220 --> 01:14:56.520
Episode 18, Ashes to Ashes.

1674
01:14:56.699 --> 01:14:57.840
Oh, that's Harry Kim episode.

1675
01:14:57.899 --> 01:15:00.539
Oh, we never get to do a Harry King episode.

1676
01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:01.439
We ruled one out last time.

1677
01:15:01.500 --> 01:15:02.640
No, this is the one.

1678
01:15:02.699 --> 01:15:06.659
This is the one. because I know how much you love it.

1679
01:15:07.079 --> 01:15:08.760
Oh my god.

1680
01:15:08.819 --> 01:15:12.180
Season five, episode 18.

1681
01:15:12.420 --> 01:15:14.579
Course oblivion.

1682
01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:16.619
Oh, my God.

1683
01:15:17.100 --> 01:15:18.600
Wow.

1684
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:25.260
People say, people say that like, there have been votes where that

1685
01:15:25.260 --> 01:15:29.340
enterprise episode we watched came last out of the entire

1686
01:15:29.340 --> 01:15:35.520
franchise. from angry, angry nerds who weren't even thinking about

1687
01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:39.000
Course Oblivion, which is one of the most unpleasant and

1688
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:42.899
ridiculous hours of TV in the shows history.

1689
01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:46.380
Weirdly, I have heard because, you know, there was a time when I

1690
01:15:46.380 --> 01:15:47.640
saw out reviews.

1691
01:15:47.699 --> 01:15:51.899
I have heard reviews in both directions of this episode of some

1692
01:15:51.899 --> 01:15:55.020
people saying it's sort of bold, you know, and ambitious, and

1693
01:15:55.020 --> 01:15:57.180
other people just saying it's the most dismal television

1694
01:15:57.180 --> 01:15:58.859
experience you could possibly have.

1695
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:00.300
So bad.

1696
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:01.619
It's so bad.

1697
01:16:01.680 --> 01:16:02.699
Oh, let's do it.

1698
01:16:02.760 --> 01:16:03.060
Come on.

1699
01:16:03.119 --> 01:16:05.460
It'd be nice, you know.

1700
01:16:05.460 --> 01:16:09.119
You started with low expectations going into these are the voyages

1701
01:16:09.119 --> 01:16:10.380
and you actually rather enjoyed it.

1702
01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:11.399
Yeah.

1703
01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:13.680
That's not going to happen this week.

1704
01:16:14.100 --> 01:16:16.619
How long has it been since you lost all this?

1705
01:16:16.739 --> 01:16:21.600
It has been a long time, but there's something massively

1706
01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:26.279
misconceived about the entire thing and just the spectacle of

1707
01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:32.100
Janeway looking tragic with like a pound of latex kind of hand.

1708
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:34.560
They also start melting at her face.

1709
01:16:34.619 --> 01:16:35.939
It's quicksilver, isn't it?

1710
01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:37.140
They're made out of this sort of quicksample.

1711
01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:39.600
So they've all got this weird sort of silver paint dripping off

1712
01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:41.640
their faces and stuff.

1713
01:16:41.699 --> 01:16:43.680
Do you not want to do that then?

1714
01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:45.600
Are you not in the mood for course oblivion?

1715
01:16:45.659 --> 01:16:46.739
No, no, let's do it.

1716
01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:47.340
Let's do it.

1717
01:16:47.399 --> 01:16:49.920
I've got to say nice things about a terrible episode.

1718
01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:52.140
Now, let me say terrible things about a terrible episode.

1719
01:16:52.199 --> 01:16:53.279
Give that a go.

1720
01:16:53.579 --> 01:17:00.000
And I, I think when I reviewed this on my website, Doggo reviews, I

1721
01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:01.619
did give this one out of 10.

1722
01:17:01.859 --> 01:17:06.300
So I'm sort of starting in a low place, but I'm prepared to be

1723
01:17:06.300 --> 01:17:06.720
impressed.

1724
01:17:06.779 --> 01:17:09.659
I'm pretty sure Jama slams it as well.

1725
01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:12.420
So, uh, this might be an agreement.

1726
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:14.220
We can all agree on, yeah.

1727
01:17:14.279 --> 01:17:17.579
The stars have aligned and a supernova's hit.

1728
01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:18.779
Oh my god.

1729
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:19.800
Course oblivion.

1730
01:17:19.859 --> 01:17:21.060
Set course.

1731
01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:22.920
For oblivion.

1732
01:17:31.979 --> 01:17:34.920
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1733
01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:38.880
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project

1734
01:17:38.100 --> 01:17:41.460
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1735
01:17:41.460 --> 01:17:42.239
media accounts.

1736
01:17:42.300 --> 01:17:46.140
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceron, and the theme was

1737
01:17:46.140 --> 01:17:47.640
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1738
01:17:47.699 --> 01:17:52.079
This episode was recorded on the 26th of March 2024 and released

1739
01:17:52.079 --> 01:17:53.100
on the 12th of April.

1740
01:17:53.340 --> 01:17:57.600
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, course oblivion.

1741
01:18:15.659 --> 01:18:18.359
The stars have aligned, and the supernova's hit.

1742
01:18:18.420 --> 01:18:19.739
Oh, my God.

1743
01:18:19.800 --> 01:18:21.000
Course oblivion.

1744
01:18:21.060 --> 01:18:22.260
Set course.

1745
01:18:22.319 --> 01:18:24.239
For oblivion.

1746
01:18:24.300 --> 01:18:24.960
No, wait.

1747
01:18:25.020 --> 01:18:25.800
I'll start that again.

1748
01:18:26.640 --> 01:18:29.819
Set course, of course oblivion.

1749
01:18:29.880 --> 01:18:31.260
I don't even know if that works.

1750
01:18:31.380 --> 01:18:32.100
Does it?

1751
01:18:32.100 --> 01:18:35.880
Oh God.

1752
01:18:35.939 --> 01:18:38.340
Well, that was...

1753
01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:40.319
All of that stays in.

1754
01:18:40.380 --> 01:18:43.020
Are you attempting to do it and then fucking it up and then

1755
01:18:43.020 --> 01:18:43.979
attempting to do it again?

1756
01:18:44.039 --> 01:18:46.680
That's just a podcasting water is all about.

1757
01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:48.659
That's kind of funny though.

1758
01:18:49.140 --> 01:18:51.659
The funniest thing is the people listen.

1759
01:18:53.039 --> 01:18:56.100
That episode, like, fuck.

1760
01:18:56.159 --> 01:19:01.619
Like, like, the twist is that it's not the real crew, and then the

1761
01:19:01.619 --> 01:19:03.600
real crew fly past at the end.

1762
01:19:03.659 --> 01:19:06.119
I don't even want to see what it is.

1763
01:19:06.180 --> 01:19:07.920
No, they don't even know what it is.

1764
01:19:07.979 --> 01:19:08.819
So it's nothing.

1765
01:19:08.939 --> 01:19:11.100
Nothing happens to the crew.

1766
01:19:11.100 --> 01:19:14.100
They sacrifice themselves for the other crew or is it just...

1767
01:19:14.100 --> 01:19:16.199
No, they just melt and die.

1768
01:19:16.260 --> 01:19:18.060
It's like so ridiculous.

1769
01:19:18.119 --> 01:19:21.840
And with such a dramatic tile, yeah. should be really exciting.

1770
01:19:21.899 --> 01:19:23.520
No, actually it's a pretty great title.

1771
01:19:23.579 --> 01:19:26.699
I love a title with a colon in it.

1772
01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:29.399
Like a like a assignment earth.

1773
01:19:29.460 --> 01:19:29.880
Yeah.

1774
01:19:29.939 --> 01:19:32.520
Yeah, of course, Oblivion was a TOS episode.

1775
01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:33.659
It would be the best thing ever.

1776
01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:36.420
No, it's the worst thing ever.

1777
01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:37.920
Yeah, yeah, it would be terrible.

1778
01:19:37.979 --> 01:19:40.859
It's just like not even a show.

1779
01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:42.840
I just remember it's just so flat.

1780
01:19:42.899 --> 01:19:45.899
Like, no, well, not unlike what we just watched.

1781
01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:50.159
It's just so like, It's nothing, but it's not even the

1782
01:19:50.159 --> 01:19:50.579
characters.

1783
01:19:50.640 --> 01:19:53.880
Like, and like, you know, like it's all our actors and stuff, but

1784
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:56.640
no one learns anything, nothing happens.

1785
01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:58.739
And then it's demon, isn't it?

1786
01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:00.300
Like then there's a seat.

1787
01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:01.380
No, demons four.

1788
01:20:01.439 --> 01:20:02.340
This is five.

1789
01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:03.479
This is the end of five.

1790
01:20:03.539 --> 01:20:08.640
Oh, this is the end of the trilogy of terror because you have, um

1791
01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:15.180
uh, the fight, and the Harry King won, the disease, and then

1792
01:20:15.180 --> 01:20:16.920
course oblivion all back to back.

1793
01:20:16.979 --> 01:20:19.380
But then, what's the demon then?

1794
01:20:19.380 --> 01:20:21.300
Demas, the 1st one of this.

1795
01:20:21.359 --> 01:20:24.720
Oh, wait, course oblivion is a sequel to Demon.

1796
01:20:24.779 --> 01:20:25.380
Yeah.

1797
01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:27.539
Yeah, there we go.

1798
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:28.680
Yeah.

1799
01:20:28.739 --> 01:20:29.279
Yeah.

1800
01:20:29.399 --> 01:20:31.020
So that's right.

1801
01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:33.239
They allow themselves to be copied at the end of demon.

1802
01:20:33.720 --> 01:20:37.619
And the twin says that it's a copy from Demon, which was a pretty

1803
01:20:37.619 --> 01:20:39.239
shitty episode you watched last year.

1804
01:20:39.300 --> 01:20:42.600
It's such a shame that they do have free on the bounce because in

1805
01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:46.140
5 you can and then you get like relativity, which is a really fun

1806
01:20:46.140 --> 01:20:50.760
7 time travel episode. 1159, which showed that allows Mulberry to

1807
01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:51.300
do different things.

1808
01:20:52.859 --> 01:20:56.340
I actually got equinox at the end of the season, which we quite

1809
01:20:56.340 --> 01:20:56.760
liked.

1810
01:20:56.819 --> 01:21:01.500
Yeah, yeah, so it's a bit of a shame, really, that...

1811
01:21:01.560 --> 01:21:05.579
As you head towards the end of the season, they just all start and

1812
01:21:05.579 --> 01:21:08.640
it, there's one scene where they're all in the, they're all in the

1813
01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:10.979
observation lounge, you know, where they have the meetings.

1814
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:12.180
Yeah, yeah.

1815
01:21:12.180 --> 01:21:15.300
And Janeways, like, literally in the sort of last 3rd of the

1816
01:21:15.300 --> 01:21:16.319
season's slump.

1817
01:21:16.380 --> 01:21:19.199
Mulgrew is, and she's just sort of sitting there covered in still

1818
01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:19.920
the paint gang.

1819
01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:23.220
Well, we make it out of here, Mr. Chicago.

1820
01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:28.380
Overwhelmingly, that was my sense of why the episode was shit.

1821
01:21:28.439 --> 01:21:33.060
It was just looking at poor Kate with that fucking makeup on

1822
01:21:33.060 --> 01:21:38.640
trying to deliver a line, just me dying of embarrassment on her

1823
01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:39.300
bar.

1824
01:21:40.619 --> 01:21:44.220
How many seasons of this that we have to go.

1825
01:21:44.340 --> 01:21:45.960
That's right.

1826
01:21:46.020 --> 01:21:48.180
Fucking hell dreadful.

1827
01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:52.079
Oh, but, you know, it would be nice to be truly mean about, because

1828
01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:54.899
we're like, we sort of laughed our way through skin of evil.

1829
01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:58.319
And you know, you said nice things about today's episode.

1830
01:21:58.380 --> 01:22:02.460
So it would be nice to just be truly savage for one week. that's

1831
01:22:02.460 --> 01:22:02.579
right.

1832
01:22:02.640 --> 01:22:05.819
Unless one of us, you know, has lost any with it.

1833
01:22:06.119 --> 01:22:07.979
Seems unlikely.

1834
01:22:08.100 --> 01:22:09.600
All right.

1835
01:22:09.659 --> 01:22:10.079
Okay.

1836
01:22:10.140 --> 01:22:11.579
I'm gonna I'll go.

1837
01:22:11.640 --> 01:22:12.300
What do you think?

1838
01:22:13.260 --> 01:22:15.420
It was still fun though.

1839
01:22:15.479 --> 01:22:17.880
You know, I was horrible, bro, that whole thing.

1840
01:22:17.939 --> 01:22:18.659
Yeah, yeah.

1841
01:22:18.720 --> 01:22:22.439
But I'm glad that I got to say things because it's just, it just

1842
01:22:22.439 --> 01:22:23.640
like...

1843
01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:25.439
It's nice to have 2 opinions as well.

1844
01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:26.880
I think so too.

1845
01:22:26.939 --> 01:22:30.000
But I also think that there's just a fair bit of sort of shitty

1846
01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:32.460
entitlement behind some of the backlash.

1847
01:22:32.520 --> 01:22:36.000
You know, it's like, this is enterprise and why can't we be, you

1848
01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:38.939
know, like, like, and it was just like, no, no, look what you

1849
01:22:38.939 --> 01:22:39.180
got.

1850
01:22:39.239 --> 01:22:40.800
Like look what they're trying to do for you.

1851
01:22:40.859 --> 01:22:46.859
You know, this show failed and we're trying to make it give it a

1852
01:22:46.859 --> 01:22:49.859
successful final mission. try to do for you in the last gulp.

1853
01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:51.359
Yeah, yeah.

1854
01:22:51.420 --> 01:22:55.020
Like we couldn't be doing it all along, Babs, but we didn't, you

1855
01:22:55.020 --> 01:22:55.199
know.

1856
01:22:55.619 --> 01:22:57.899
Yeah, they were learning lessons.

1857
01:22:57.960 --> 01:22:58.800
It's so annoying.

1858
01:22:59.460 --> 01:23:01.140
Yeah, no.

1859
01:23:01.199 --> 01:23:03.600
They deliberately threw out all the lessons they'd learned because

1860
01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:08.100
they thought that was putting people off, you know.

1861
01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:09.479
Shame, shame, shame.

1862
01:23:09.539 --> 01:23:10.079
Shame.

1863
01:23:10.079 --> 01:23:10.500
Shame.

1864
01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:12.060
The potential was there, I think.

1865
01:23:12.119 --> 01:23:14.159
Yeah, yeah.

1866
01:23:14.279 --> 01:23:19.140
Yes, give it to Manny earlier before they do series 3 and ruin

1867
01:23:19.140 --> 01:23:19.380
it.

1868
01:23:19.439 --> 01:23:23.100
So when Ira Bear came into DS9, didn't it, you know?

1869
01:23:23.159 --> 01:23:25.560
and brought wrong Moore along with him as well.

1870
01:23:25.619 --> 01:23:26.760
And he's like, right, come on.

1871
01:23:26.819 --> 01:23:28.439
Beef this show up a bit now.

1872
01:23:28.500 --> 01:23:31.439
Yeah, yeah, let's have some fun or in Bajor episodes.

1873
01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:34.439
Come on, bring in a star, put on some torpedoes.

1874
01:23:34.500 --> 01:23:35.100
Let's go.

1875
01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:37.319
Awesome.

1876
01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:39.180
Okay.

1877
01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:39.659
Okay.

1878
01:23:39.720 --> 01:23:40.680
I'm going to go to bed.