Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're back on board Deep Space 9.
It's series three, episode 16, profit motive, which is the 3rd
appearance, I want to say, of...
That's right.
Yep, well, Sean and Zack, and that's a welcome return.
Another Ferengi episode.
And one that I have to say I thought was enjoyable but slight, let
me say, slide.
Oh, that's being very kind.
Well, see, I think that lots of people like are offended by the
Frankie episodes because they're comedic.
I mean, there's some you should be offended by.
Prophet and lace.
Oh, yeah, like profit and lace and stuff.
Yeah, but like we've said before that the great thing about Deep
Space 9 is that because of the way the characters are drawn, it
works well as soap and it works well as a sitcom, because in
sitcoms, people have sort of predictable ways of behaving and you
can play with that or play against it.
And you can see that happening here.
That's very much what's going on with Zec in this episode.
So it does work as a sitcom.
The trouble with it, I think, is that we have 2 plots that have no
character arc in them at all.
And so the 1st plot, the big plot is Grand Megasec has had a
religious experience with the prophets.
I'm sold It's awesome.
It's a great premise.
So what we're doing is emissary only if it was with Ferengi.
And I think that that's great.
Of course, of course, Quark has to go and see the wormhole aliens
by before the end of the episode.
And it's the best really good.
But I think the problem is that what we're trying to do is to get
Zec to go back to being his usual self.
So while there's some comedy in Zec behaving out of character and
we do some playing around with the rules of acquisition and we do
some playing around with those scenes from emissary, like kind of
making fun of them in a way.
Like taking 2 bits of Star Trek law, of Deep Space 9 law, and just
crashing them against one another to see what happens, 2 bits that
don't belong in the same show, and have the show itself observe
that.
The profits are actually annoyed at being in a Ferengi episode.
But other than that, there's not much there, I think.
Well, it's exactly what the episode earlier in the season.
House of Court was doing with Ferengi's and Klingon culture.
It's just smushing those 2 things together and having some fun
with it.
You're right.
This is really slow and this is really slight.
And I realise watching this that I don't care about either of
those things because I just adore these characters and they're in
my blood, these characters.
I watched these at a time in my life where I needed to watch
really fun TV.
I've said to you before I watch this with my mom and I treasure
that, absolutely.
And I just love these actors.
So this could be slighter.
This could be slower. be happy with it. and I'd still be happy
because I'm on Deep Space 9 and I'm hanging out with Quark Rum on
the Grand Nagus.
And you know, like, I actually think that that's a thing that this
show discovers about Star Trek is that you can just do that.
And I think, you know, people object to it and I understand that.
But I do also like that we have an episode that is essentially
very low stakes and he's just sort of stuff happening with the
characters.
The B plot.
Again, is...
Yeah, cider.
Julian gets nominated for an award and he thinks he's not going to
get it and then he kind of kind of hopes gets hope that he might
get it and then he doesn't get it.
And that's the whole plot.
But the fun of that plot.
And it is fun.
And again, it's just hanging out with these characters and
watching all these terrible gossips on Deep Space 9 who are
learning all the news about the, and as you said to me on the chat
how suddenly everyone's an expert in, you know, medical.
Yeah, everyone has an opinion about all of these.
Oh, Brian...
Yeah, it's... where Odo sits down and starts looking around him
before he starts gossiping.
I'm like, oh, I just, I want to live on that station.
In fact, one of my favourite moments in the episode is when Quark
goes to see Julian, because he thinks that something's wrong with
Zach, and those 2 plots collide, because then you get Quark making
fun of Julian and saying he's a useless doctor and he's not going
to win the Carrington and stuff.
No wonder you're not going to win the Currenton Award.
Yeah.
So both of those are sort of very thin.
I think this is a season of Deep Space 9 where they're pushing up
against the limits of what their premise is, which is why we kind
of reinvented the following year.
And we're working towards that reinvention probably in this season
as well.
It's such a weird year three.
And I look, I do like 3 a lot because you can see they're learning
as they go.
They bring in the defiant.
They give the Dominion a big role.
That's starting to impact the series massively.
You know, they do big two-parters like past tense that stand up
there with the greatest of Star Trek.
So they are doing some really great stuff, but there's still some
of that slower, far more character-based stuff from the earlier
seasons as well.
And it's, you're right, it's 4 with where the Warrior, they go
fuck that shit.
We're just going to go crazy.
Let's have fun.
But do you know what?
I tell you, I've got a story I'd like to tell you.
As I told by Renee Oberjon himself, from the extremely heavy Bible
otherwise known as Star Trek, the Deep Space 9 companion, a book
but it's almost impossible to read in the bar because it's so it's
bigger than that revised version of the rules of acquisition in
this.
It's enormous.
So he's been going through his director's training throughout
series three.
And it looks like it's time for the stabilisers to finally come
off.
He says, Rick was incredibly supportive from that time on.
I proceeded to do production meetings and editing, casting, and
dubbing sessions.
I watched the whole process and talked to directors at length.
Berman then ran into me a few months later and said, so are you
ready?
I said, oh, uh, no, not yet, he recalls.
But when Berman called him a few years later, he goes, I think
it's time to put you in.
He accepted the challenge and by the luck of the draw was assigned
to profit motive.
It was a wonderful show to start on with for a lot of reasons.
Key among them, Arman and Max, he says.
Unlike some of the other actors in the series, who prefer to be
spontaneous in their performances.
Arman Schimmermann and Max Groddenshick, liked to rehearse their
scenes together.
That really suited a novice director like me, says Arman.
They gave me unlimited access to themselves.
We came in on weekends and rehearsed on the sets.
So when the filming began, the scenes are already totally
rehearsed and ready to go.
A glorious experience, says Shimmerman.
We worked everything out and we were solid, all 3 of us.
We were all in harmony.
That's the beauty of rehearsal.
The richest you can get from working together with extra time so
that you can develop something good.
I just love the idea of these 3 incredible creatives coming
together in their own time to put this bit of 2 on the screen as
well as they possibly can.
And, you know, Renee goes on to direct, you know, the quickening
some really good episodes of Deep Space Night.
Wolves in series 6, where, you know, DeCut's got those crazy
ghosts and very bad episodes.
Well, he does let his videos without seeing.
It's luck of the draw, though, with what scripture given. did the
best he could, and he did bring in Vanessa Williams, you know.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Got Terry Farrell on her to float outrageously with each other.
It seems to me that the Ferengi family, when Chase Marston came in
when the woman who played rookie came in, Aaron, Eisenberg, they
were so tight, and what happens with that is, I really think it
translates on the screen.
You can see his actors having a blast.
And so like we've said, if the episode is as thin as this, you're
still really enjoying their company.
And I did.
So what do you think?
Should we go in?
I think we probably should.
Yes.
Prepare yourself for Grand Nagus quotes.
Uh, because...
What a Sean.
Line delivery is sublime.
He's really great.
All right.
Here goes. 5, 4, 32, one, and we're off.
That's okay, Nathan.
I like you.
Oh, yuck.
Quark is currently being masturbated at the start of the episode.
There is no question of that.
Like, they literally do masturbation humour around Umaks.
There's a terrible line in Bar Association, which is a great
episode where Rom goes, I'm getting too much remarks. and later
goes, oh, who's the lucky female?
and he goes, no female, just me.
No, no.
I mean, should we be talking about wanking in Star Trek?
It's really great.
That is really great.
So we have self-stealing stem bolts here.
He's trying to offload some on this woman whose name is Emmy, I
think.
Is it a bit icky?
I mean, it is bit icky.
It's basically saying we're going to do the deal, but I'm going to
have sex with you first.
Yeah, no, but in fact, like, something is going on here because, of
course, that's not a very, very Ferengi like, is it?
Like, he should be caring about the deal and not caring about
getting wanked off.
And he even says, I'm a very unusual Ferengi.
So he's unusual in that he's not obsessed with money um quite as
much as he probably ought to be.
He's certainly not as bad as the similar scene that starts profit
and lace, where he says to his employee, you'll be fired unless
you have sex with me.
What were they thinking?
And then by the end of the episode, she's going, oh, I really
wanted to do that actually.
I'm like, what are you doing?
I'm a bad dog.
So, nothing is more important than this deal.
And then who are I?
No, no, he's saying nothing is more important than getting wanked
off by this alien.
It's not the deal.
It's like ROM is coming in to send him to go and see Grand Nega
Zack.
And it's slightly odd that we don't see Zek at this point.
So this is tiny Ron as my hard do.
So lovely scenes where the camera swings round on him.
He's crying in a corner.
Yeah, yeah, having him cry. he's like a big wrestler or a football
player or something, isn't he?
He only talks as a prophet though, doesn't he?
Not as Mae Hard do.
So that's part of the 2 kind of worlds colliding, isn't it?
Like he only talks when he's in the profit kind of part of the
plot.
Yeah, yeah, because the prophets have, you know, they've got power
over the narrative, don't they?
I think those scenes are really pretty great.
I think they are on, yeah, highlights.
I like the all the experience he has as well.
All that stuff in the bar that's shot in sort of lots of high and
low angles as well in the middle of the episode.
I think Renee's trying, you know, in a way that some director
started.
I sent you a photo of Rome sitting at a window and it's framed in
a really nice way.
You know, he's not just pointing and shooting.
He's trying to think, well, look, these boring directors we
normally have.
What can I do?
That's a bit different. true.
How do I make my mark?
I mean, by the time we come to the quickening, He does
extraordinary aerial shot of Bashir holding the baby where the
camera swoops high over the whole location that they've got.
Wow.
He's got some talent as a director.
I don't know if he went on from Star Trek to do anymore.
I imagine he probably did.
They usually do.
Yeah, so he did eight.
I don't know.
I don't know what he goes on and does after this.
He's a bit older, I think, than anyone else on the cast.
He probably doesn't need the work, if I'm honest.
Yeah, it's really...
I mean, he can act, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, here we go.
We're still laboriously panning our way across the station.
Make sure you go around several times.
Like we're in a war of the park.
Now, will they say?
Make sure you go around several times.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lower decks is so tricky.
I love that one though.
That one was Kerr and Quark.
Well, Kieran and Shacks are really funny together.
So here's the B plot happening and it looks like we're having a
kind of surprise party for Bashir or something.
Which I think they did earlier in the season, you know, so.
Oh, okay.
Well, there's that birthday, the birthday episode where he grows
into an old man.
Do you remember the?
Oh God, no. gets inside his head?
Yeah, it's terrible.
Do you know what it is?
tell you what it is. is that later on, there's so much sort of
empire hopping and so much politicking and space battles and
things like that going on.
There's less hang time.
In the early seasons, there's so much hang time on the station.
And that's sort of where he got his claws into me, you know, just
hanging out with these people.
And so whilst I accept this isn't the better version of the show
it's the more comforting version.
I still think an episode like this should have some kind of plot
arc.
Like the characters, the characters should be going through a
thing.
And it doesn't have to be a painful thing.
And, you know, if it's Star Trek, it'll almost certainly be a
cheesy kind of crappy, obvious thing.
But here there's nothing to be learned.
Like this is eating up running time.
They can't do it as well.
They can do really good for you as well.
We'll do treasury pay for the Great River, and that was other...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you remember the one where where Keiko comes back on the
station in series 4 and O'Brien and Bashir are both mooning about
the station because they're not allowed to spend any time together
anymore.
And then she manipulates the 2 of them.
Oh, she goes, I need to get a brine out of my hair. really
annoying me.
So she goes, have you seen Julian?
He's like really depressed.
And the 2nd he's out there, he goes, oh, I'll go and see him.
And then she gets straight on the phone to Julian and goes, have
you seen Miles?
He's really depressed, you know?
They can do these amiable subplots in their sleep.
Yeah, yeah.
But, I mean, this is amiable.
What is fun about it?
I think is just the fact that everyone becomes an expert in these
you know, federation doctors and staff.
You know, we've done so many season 7 episodes.
I forgot Jazzy Adax exists.
Oh, she's magnificent, isn't she?
Um, I do think her in this subplot is very odd.
She's the one that puts him up for the award because she decides
that he needs it.
Despite the fact knowing that he probably ain't going to get it.
Then she chees him up here and goes, you should be excited.
You could win this.
And then at the end, she goes, oh, are you all right about
losing?
And he goes, no, I'm not.
And she goes, no, I didn't think you were.
And that's the... you bitch. you know, like, why did you put him
through this?
Yeah, I don't quite know what's going on here.
You remember in that episode where she deliberately goes to Odo's
room and moves his furniture just an inch to the left just to
annoy him.
Yeah, actually doing that with Bashir.
Just the fact that everyone's suddenly obsessed with it and she
starts it off.
So this is, what I think is the closest to a character arc is, is
actually Rom and Quark.
And so they start off here at Loggerheads because it's Nog's job
apparently to clean up that plate on the floor.
It's nog shop and he's away.
So they're fighting.
And one of the things that they say, and I think Rom says, it was
terrible living with you, when we lived at home together, you know
I hated that.
This is more sort of structured than you might think, because in
series three, you have this here, whereas the 1st time where he
says to him, stop it, brother, I'm not doing what you tell me.
This is my house and if you don't like it, fuck off.
And then he has a scene a couple of episodes later where Noggs
trying to get into the academy and Kork tries to sabotage that.
He throws him up against the wall and he goes, you can do whatever
you want to me, but don't you come near my son.
Right.
Then we get bar association where he finally properly comes out of
court shadow.
So they are sort of putting these bits in a bit at a time.
But you can't tell that here because it's just a few scenes here
you know.
No.
But, but what happens here is they're at loggerheads and then in
the final scene, which I think has a really, it's got a really
funny resolution.
Yeah, where it turns out he's been embezzling, like ROM has been
embezzling money from the charity all this time.
And and hello.
It's so good.
Father would be fine.
Father would have been so proud of you.
And so that's a heartwarming thing.
And I love that it's heartwarming about embezzling money from a
benevolence. after all. really good.
That's great.
This here, I can sort of tell this team's been well rehearsed, just
how they're sort of playing the room, using the props.
I think they...
It might be overdoing a bit.
The bit where the bit where Quark illustrates your ear picking by
sticking the brandy bottle is wrong.
I guess I thought, okay, you could hear the rubber going.
I love it always.
It's like, this is from my private stock.
Those tablecloths, that trixie and bubble juice.
There's whole room.
He's been embezzling from court beholder.
Oh, and that's that is a lovely thing about Rome, is that slow for
sure.
He's been called an idiot the whole time and we're learning.
He is really smart.
To the point where he's the one that creates the bloody minefield
that stops the dominion from attacking the Alpha Quadron.
It's also just that he's sweet as well, I think, is really nice.
Do you know what?
Gemma hates Rom and Lita.
He loves them as character.
There's one point in, it's only a paper moon where he said they
were tolerable, and otherwise he just sends, he just says they're
like teeth clenchingly bad.
It's very, very weird.
But then, you know, I, I, I, we're mentioning him quite a lot at
the moment, you know?
I know, we, we're trying not to be mean. we should lay off No, we
shouldn't.
We shouldn't.
Oh, he goes, don't let Mehart do intimidate you and shops inform
me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He goes, why?
I'm going to be behind this thing.
I knew you'd be around here somewhere.
Now, I just want to very quickly cite you, but during this scene
my other half walked past the door, he has said to walk past the
door when I'm watching Star Trek or come in and just insult me
heard Wallace Sean and went, he's heard the dinosaur from Toy
Story.
And I said, I said, yeah.
And he sat down and he watched the whole rest of the episode. on
the strength of what is Sean being in it?
and actually, he said, again, that was quite fun.
And for him, that's a huge endorsement of Star Trek.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I think it's mostly because, you know, the Vegas is a cartoon
character. just had fun with him.
Well, and just while Sean is so much fun.
I mean, just in everything that he's in, it's wonderful.
Look at the look of horror on Mehardou's face after he's been
leafing through the new rules of acquisition.
Well, I love about this bit in a minute, right, as they're reading
the book and he's doing the 1st word from every line, right?
If never keep smile.
A good smile, honestly.
It feels entirely improvised.
It doesn't feel scripted at all.
It's like they're just making up any shit in the sense to fill out
the running time.
And so eventually there's a book, isn't there, that you can buy
which has the rules of acquisition in it.
Revised every year, you know?
Right, right.
But, I mean, the 1st rule of acquisition we already know is if you
have their money, never give it back.
First rule of acquisition, and it's got a sort of rhythmic way of
saying it.
Do you know what I mean?
If you have their money, never give it back.
Like, and they do that a lot with the actual rules.
The other ones are very discordant, aren't they?
But, but, but now, if they want their money back and they're
trying to make it rhyme, give it to them.
And it, and there's Rome trying to make it fit the metre, but it
doesn't, you know, because it's...
He just goes, if they have the money back, give it to them.
This made her do crying.
Please rose every episode of Star Trek.
Okay?
It's fun.
Oh, this is that shot where he's sitting in the window.
I just love those windows, you know.
They're really cute.
Does Jake ever sit in a window like that?
I don't think he does.
No.
That is a kid.
I still say, though, it's so annoying because every time we go
back in time to where they were around Bajor, there's sunlight
coming through those windows and it looks great.
What a show. too expensive.
Never mind.
Just hang a curtain with some sequins outside there and we'll just
go with that.
What is weird is this sort of Cardassian design that we 1st saw in
TNG felt so cold when I 1st saw it.
And now it's become my ultimate comfort design.
I think whenever I go back to DS9, just because of 7 years on the
station.
But I also think the light's a bit yellower and there's the brown
has a kind of more organic, do you know what I mean?
Like I just, and the shape.
Oh, it's so dark.
Good.
There's some fucking atmosphere there.
Yeah, yeah.
And just round things being round as well, like having curves, not
having everything kind of just straight lines, like the Federation
ships.
But people prefer like boring next gen says.
I mean, what is wrong with people?
The flat lighting.
Well, and then we go worse, I think.
You know, the next gen sets had some colour and some slightly odd
shapes of the corridors, but then we go to Voyager and
everything's much, much more boring and gray, I think.
Well, then we go to Enterprise and they discovered the true
meaning of gray, didn't they?
Yeah, that's true.
That is true.
What does it mean, brother?
It means absolutely nothing.
He gets quite excited.
But all of this stuff is so ridiculous.
Oh, the next the book.
Yeah, yeah, he licks the edges of the book.
He goes, we'll hold it up to the light and then he looks out the
window and kind of goes, actually, no, I can't even do that.
Oh, he's not actually doing it because he's holding out the book
and then you see his tongue going all the way along the pages.
He's a pro.
He really is.
And it is great.
I do I do like the fact that it's such an appalling shift. that
suddenly there's a mystery to solve, you know, what the hell has
happened to him, something must have happened to make him like
this.
It's not some devious scheme that he's come up with.
No.
Yeah, yeah.
So, I mean, there is fun to be had, like the just because there
are several of the rules of acquisition that are reversed here.
Like, and they're, you know, they have corresponding numbers that
are literally the opposite.
You know, all the stuff about, you know, family doesn't come
before profit and dignity.
You know, it's more important than money.
He just said, these new rules are part of an evil scheme to take
control of the financial of the entire quadrant.
He's nice a bit of hyperbole walk, doesn't he?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But that is kind of because nothing's happening.
So what we're going to do.
We're going to put this book down and just walk away from...
All right, guys, you've improvised this scene long enough now.
Let's move on with a fly.
Oh, I just love them, no.
I just love them.
I mean, when they're married to a great story like um, the Roswell
one.
It's sublime.
Yeah.
And like I, I think that people who think, like, I, I don't have
much, I don't have much kind of patience for people who say that
that it shouldn't be funny or that it should always have very high
stakes.
Like, that doesn't worry me.
People say it shouldn't be sitcom.
Yeah, it should. sitcoms or...
It should.
But I just think that a sitcom would have a character arc.
Yeah.
This is a lot of vamping.
But it's just well good active vamping.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't keep saying I don't care.
It's terrible.
But I don't. no fun for the Beatles though.
Oh, no, come on, do the line.
Might be fun for you or me, but it's no fun for the Beatles.
Do you know the best light he delivers in this?
Oh my god.
It's after he's been turned back to normal when he goes, oh, you're
wrinkling my suit.
Oh God, he's great.
He is really good.
I mean, he's grotesque, isn't he?
But that's all part of the fun.
He's horrible, perverting.
I find the ear hair.
A bit triggering, I have to say.
And you're right, it does look a bit scrotish, doesn't he?
Yeah, it's got a scrote thing happening there, I think.
By all accounts, Wallish on really hated the makeup.
I mean, you would, look at him, bless him.
But, you know, and he's a distinguished actor.
He doesn't need to be slumming it playing this role.
But he loved the other actors and he just loved being a part of
Star. a bit like Penny Johnson Gerald, you know?
She didn't need to do this.
She's got other fish to fry, but she's not being around Avery.
He loved being around almond, you know.
It's a testament to the environment, I think.
Yeah.
And I said to Mark when we were watching this.
I said, you know, you've got an Oscar winner from one flew over
the cookie's nest. you know, guest row here. you got Wallace Sean
here.
Star Trek is a pretty hefty acting talent.
These insane minor roles.
Oh, no, may I do?
Having a drink.
Ron started drinking.
Yeah, this scene I didn't think landed at all where they're
playing darts.
So I think the gag, like the running gag or the thing that the
scene does is that whenever Miles says something, something that
that gets under Julian's skin, he misses the dartboard.
And he wouldn't usually, you know, because he's genetically
engineered with perfect hand eye coordination.
But not yet.
At this point, he's not.
That's right.
And so, so, but there is something funny.
Like the funny thing in this scene is that Miles has an opinion
about the Carrington Award.
Um, that's what I that's what I liked.
What's going on about?
about gentronological research.
What of an age?
Old people, old people research.
That is not a line.
O'Brien would say that.
No, that's right.
That's what's funny about it.
And so then Julian gets his revenge by saying something about
Keiko, I think, right?
But then what I love is, what I take from this scene is how
glorious is it that Julian and Mars sneak off to the cargo base to
play dolls all the night, you know?
It's just not the sort of thing you imagine Dr. Bev and Riker
doing, you know?
No.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but what's going on here?
Like, it doesn't play into his character.
Like, it's just like one.
It doesn't play.
And it's not funny.
It's those 90s gags that aren't funny.
Oh, how long's your wife going to be away?
Oh, he misses the board.
Oh, there you go.
He misses the dartboard and Julian wins this round.
No.
So they're both the actors are trying to make that work with that
reaction, but it doesn't quite...
Look, these poor actors.
All these actors, there's one, two, three, four.
Five of them there, milling about.
They've all had to go into makeup, just to be in this one scene.
The Ferengi...
What's that, the FBA?
I'm reading.
The Ferengi Benevolent Association.
One of the things I really love about the following episodes is
they do a lot of fun wordplay a lot of the time. in a way that
sort of Star Trek comedy really gets wrong.
But it's that sort of wordplay that you get in British sitcoms
like a lower, low and things like that.
It's repeated phrases that get funnier and funnier, the more you
say them in various ways and then sort of turn them on the head
and things like that.
So this is by, this is by Ira Stephen Bear and Robert Hewitt
Wolf.
So they're just kind of stalwart writer's room guys, aren't they?
Just absolute staff writers who've written a 1000000 episodes.
Ira hasn't sort of taken the range yet.
When he does.
That's when he's going to start doing your little green men's and
you're magnificent for MGs and things like that.
Okay.
Yeah.
I do like there's nothing beyond greed.
No, it's not.
The temp for all of acquisition is greed is eternal, not anymore.
Well, I just like that they're literal opposites, you know, dead
and eternal are like complete opposites.
And of course, it's the green is good thing.
Greed is good, which is a reasonably recent memory, I think.
Probably, you know, when is this?
Oh, it's 95.
It's quite late.
He's made you join chairman of the Frankie Benevolent
Association.
And he goes, no, we're going to be taking to the top of the cow
tower commerce and pushed off.
That chemistry is undeniable, isn't it?
Oh, it's great, isn't it?
And Rob is so funny.
Funny.
Isn't it the spy?
Is it the spire of commerce or is it the tower of commerce?
I don't know.
But every, you basically see the exterior shot when we go to
Frankinar.
They always come in at the top.
One covered in rain because it's always raining and 2 just going
oh, that was so many steps.
Don't they have lifts?
Yeah, but you have to pay for them.
It goes, I didn't have any change.
Oh, dear.
You know what?
I can't even argue any of your complaints.
So I'm still laughing.
I kind of, like, like that upping the stakes like that is very
quark because he's a bit of a drama queen.
Not as much as he does later.
No, he's getting now, cut him up.
Cut him open.
See what's wrong with him.
That's not true.
There's something deeply wrong with him, doctor.
So what did they do?
Oh, that's right.
Oh, they devolved him, didn't they?
There's been a lot of that going on lately on Untitled Star Trek
Project.
Well, but kind of what I want it to be is that he goes back, meets
the prophets and has a religious experience and so comes back
being nice and not greedy anymore.
Like that's a kind of more fun way of looking at it.
We do get if they de evolved him, but it is essentially kind of
the premises.
He has a religious experience and comes back and decides that
greed is bad and that is kind of funny.
And then it kind of happens for space reasons, which is slightly
disappointing.
Well, that it does give Cork to Charles to, you know, make the
most over the top argument as to why.
But again, like, there's a way in which it sort of slightly
undermines because there is that incredible speech that we've
mentioned before, the one that Quark makes in the Jem'Hadar, um, so
is that the end of this season?
And they lost. where the last season.
And that speech where he says, look, you know, you look down on us
and you think that we're, um, you know, we're venal and greedy and
you live in this sort of post scarcity socialist utopia, but we
don't have a history of massive massacres of each other, but you
do.
And I think that's pretty great.
Um, but it's kind of...
Do you know what?
that outsider's opinion that it's missing a lot of the time on
TNG.
That's what I love about Walk.
And I know you don't like the CGBR 558 so much, but I love his
input in that.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, that's one of the best things about it.
It's like, oh, you people are all very tedious.
Will you please get me out of here?
What a boring episode to be a part of.
Oh, I love this.
They're broken into the shuttle now, aren't they?
No, but the fun thing is that Zek's, no, is it Zek?
No, it's Tony Ron.
It's Mehardou's reaction where he's actually kind of into it.
I mean, looks like he's gonna... yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and so here is where we find out what it is, where we're
crashing that these 2 elements of Deep Space 9's mythology into
one another.
And what's great is where are we now?
20 minutes in, and this is the 1st point, are there's Eddie
mention of the prophets, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. surprise.
Much more than halfway through.
What I did notice is the music was subtle in this episode, but I
did notice how the beginning is all the trumpets of the usual sort
of Ferengi music.
And now it goes into all that sort of weird sort of dark music
that I did an emissary for profits, all the sort of heavy, I don't
know.
I think it's strings they're doing.
Right.
There's an, there is an effort to change the tone of the episode
with the music.
It's still very subtle.
There's an effort.
See, I have to say that I thought that the orb experience that
Quark has, while it lets us see zany things doesn't really amount
to anything, whereas the later vision that he has of the profits, I
think is really brilliant.
Like, I think it's it's the best thing about the episode.
I mean, I like how a lot of this is framed in this.
There's a wonderful scene where, yeah, he's on the wheel and then
the camera zooms right up and out of him.
Yeah, that's no, that's not it.
He's just sitting on the wheel there.
No, but that's coming later.
But again, like, you know, this is giving Renee something to do as
well, which is kind of interesting.
What's great about the sequences later and every time we do the
profits is those scenes must have been a nightmare to shoot
because you have to shoot in all those different locations. various
bits of dialogue and then edit it all together.
That is really fun to cut between different locations and
different characters.
Where's all that quark cleverness, Nathan?
You couldn't find them if they're hanging from your lobes.
Oh, I love him.
Can't he be a regular?
All that makeup though.
And the ear hair, I just find it so, so off putting.
There are bits of profit and lace that I do like, you know, I do
like the nagus in that where he's like, boys, together, we're
gonna start a revolution or die in the attempt, you know?
It's just a very, it's aged very badly.
Mind you, some of this fogus stuff has aged very badly, indeed
across the board.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But there are, I have heard other Star Trek podcasts where they
just won't give any of their stuff a child because it is a little
sexist.
And I'm like, you know what?
There is a lot of effort here.
This is of its time.
This is the 90s where probably we did the best.
You know, like we watched Star Trek, the original series and the
animated series, you know, like it's it's worse, like considerably
worse.
I think.
I just think this is a bit more icky at times.
Yeah.
It's a bit more like, you know, I'm really enjoying this.
Should I be?
Yeah.
Oh, no, I think profit and lace is just like horrifically bad.
What?
Well, I repair like the story.
I wrote the episode where Quark goes into the Gamma Quadrant to do
the deal about Tulaberry wine and finds the caramel and um, he's
the one that 1st hears about the Dominion.
And there's a scene and it's shot just like this is now from the
front of a Ferengi shuttle where he's going.
Zeg didn't care about Tulaberry wine.
All he cared about was the Dominion.
And they do like bringing these 2 things together on the odd
occasion. like it.
That is the joy, I think, of on DS9, the joy of having all of
these different cultures represented by one person. is that you
have these clashes of culture all the time.
And that's good viewing.
Oh, I agree.
For the most part.
Lots of carrying now.
I was figuring it all out.
Oh, so we're just getting, so we're getting why he's there.
And and like, that's kind of super interesting.
The contrast between.
So we get.
We get, um, We get the wormhole aliens encounter Cisco in emissary
and he's living in the past, and in particular, he can't escape
that particular event where his wife dies.
Here, you get, um, you get Zek coming in and he's obsessed about
the future.
Uh, is, you know, and so we have a sort of similar conversation.
This is them not understanding how linear time is they do mention
it.
Um, But sort of from a different, from a different viewpoint.
All right, so here is Renee, in his own episode, this is his only
sort of big scene.
I think his makeup looks better.
He's like, I'm not wearing that.
That usual shitty mask.
Do a better job.
Do you think, I actually think that they, that, is this the
makeup?
Like, the makeup changes as time goes by.
Actually, he gets more latex as he goes along, I think.
At the beginning, he's quite gaunt in the face in series one. and
it gets rounder and rounder. look at his lips.
Like there's enough of his own mouth there.
Like, he starts having old man face later, and it's super
unflattering.
This is not as bad as that, I think.
I just like how he does exactly what I do at work there.
He comes down the stairs and looks around himself, sort of
suspiciously, a little bit paranoid, and then sits down with the
sheer and starts gossiping, and that's exactly what I do at work.
You know, you got to do a quick 360 around you before you start
divvying out the golf.
And he's kind of cute because it's not very him too because he's
super serious and so seeing him be trivial and gossipy is kind of
part of the fun.
He's heard it from his friends, cousins, cats, neighbours.
You know, it goes on and on.
That is super funny, isn't it?
That's very unlike him.
And, and like, I think, I think doesn't Julian say so, like refers
to them as his friend and then Odo corrects him and says, no, no
it's, you know, like my friend's wife's, you know, whatever.
Yeah.
This is the point where we realise, of course, Bashir thinks he
might possibly... because he's working on his acceptance speech.
And so apparently this is somehow based on Star Trek the Next
Generation where they expected to be up against something CSI or
something, they thought that they had stood a chance in their last
year or whatever.
Or, uh, of winning a sort of major Emmy and of course, they didn't
get it, you know, something else won.
And so this was about that, apparently.
But again, there's just nothing there, I think.
It's not obvious.
Oh, I love this.
What can I do for you boys?
And then they shuffled.
And they put him in a sack.
And I don't know.
Is it him inside that sack?
Oh, I hope so.
I want to think that's more of Sean being carried along going.
That's okay, Quark.
I still like you.
Yeah, no, probably not.
I mean, they don't... like someone's moving.
It might not be Wallace Short.
You know how in Star Trek?
Like if their faces aren't in shot, it's just someone else, you
know, like...
Oh, it's so funny.
I mean, it's just nothing, is it?
No, I do think putting Zach in a big bag is actually quite fun.
It's almost like we are just arsing around for a week, isn't it?
Just not just goes...
Yeah, that rum goes, I'd really love to stay and go with you
brother, but I won't.
And then he goes. that's right Which is exactly what I would say
to you if you were heading off to the wormmo aliens.
Yeah, yeah.
All those spraggy shuttles are so bad, aren't they?
I think they're adorable.
I like those...
Yeah, yeah, that's... like a crab, isn't it?
Yeah, it's cute.
But remember that big crab ship in the in the last outpost?
How impressive it looked.
Yeah.
I'll tell you what, I do, I do think as payoff to nothing.
This sequence coming up, it's pretty good.
And like it just seems to me that this is what they have in their
head.
Like, this is the important thing in the scene.
How do we get there?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How do we get to court meet in the wormhole aliens?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, I mean, the great way that it's resolved is that they find
Quark incredibly tedious and annoying and they don't want to be in
any more episodes with him and he says, if you give me Zek back
you won't have to see any more Ferencia.
For again.
And they go, okay.
Oh, it's wonderful.
But it'll just get to that point.
Walk does suggest that, you know, destabilisation of the entire
the entirety of reality, um, just because Zach's been changed and
they go, yeah. your case a little bit.
But he is a drama queen.
Like we said that before.
That's why I love it.
So we actually haven't seen the prophet since emissary at this
point.
This is their second appearance in the show.
They they, they start sort of having more, they're in a session
aren't they?
They're in the rapture, I think.
Sacrifice of Angels, and then a couple of times in series 6 and
seven.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's very hard to do that sort of delivery to Canberra when
the actor's not there.
Doctor, what are you doing here?
But I like how he figures this all out a lot quicker than Cisco
ever did.
Yeah, yeah.
But he's, you know, he's heard, he's heard of it before, I think.
Like he's from this environment in a way that Cisco isn't when
when it 1st starts.
The transition from scene to scene has been thought through as
well.
So you had, um, walk talking to somebody else, the staff coming in
turning his head, and then it was Cisco holding the staff in a
completely different room.
It's not, you know, the end of the world direction, but it's way
more thoughtful than we normally get.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, this is this is the show trying to do something weird, and
this is clearly Renee relishing his 1st go, you know, at being the
director.
I'd say it's quite a thing to give a 1st time director.
This sequence.
See, notice that line where he says Zach wanted to know the
outcome of the game before it was played is delivered to us by
Cisco holding a baseball, which is exactly how he explains linear
time to the prophets in that 1st episode.
And they do do that a bit.
They do it more thoughtfully, I think, in emissary, where they
give particular people the role of, you know, they assign the
dialogue of the aliens to particular people. you know, with a fair
bit of thought.
Here, it's a little bit more random, but there are one or 2
attempts to do that, I think.
We do miss, however, the sequence of brand Negger Zach having a
conversation with the wormhole aliens, which I would love to see.
That would be pretty great, but I think we have to forego that in
order to get the quark one, which we really need to have.
And I like all this.
I like all the discussion around sort of linear time and it could
be really sort of badly delivered.
And I think it's ambiguous enough to work.
Yeah, look it.
I mean, it is just a very, very kind of complex way of doing the
is this the human feeling you call love?
Do you know what I mean?
Is this what time is?
And I think it works well because there's a real proper character
thing in the emissary episode, isn't there?
starts to happen and I'm so sorry to mention Babylon 5 for the 2nd
week on the trot.
Yeah, no, no, okay.
Well, is that they look over at Babylon 5 and realise that Kosh
this weird character in a massive suit who is a bit like the
prophet exists in his own sort of time space and has prophecies of
the future.
He says these obscure lines, and that then means something later
on, and the profits basically take on that role going forward, you
know, a pendance must be exacted and things like that.
But this, our ambition to improve ourselves motivates everything
we do.
And all of that stuff is actually pretty great.
I do love the...
I agreed, people were lying around doing nothing.
They wouldn't work, they wouldn't bathe.
They wouldn't even eat. starve to death.
This is him just going over the top.
And of course, you know, the Federation proves that's not the
case.
You know, these people aren't working because they'll starve
otherwise, which is the reason that we're all working.
I think, uh, it's, it's, um, Changing you will not result in the
end of all poor existence.
Maybe I exaggerated a little.
I really like my favourite line is still Kira saying linguistic
communication is tiresome.
Oh, I liked it when Kira went, oh, not another one.
But here it is.
Here's how he convinces them.
There'll be more people to come and meet you to find out what
happened to me and Zach.
You think I'm annoying?
There's many more.
I love that is linear as well.
It's so funny Eva goes, potentially very annoying to you as well.
I just hold it up his hand in that Frankie swear, isn't he?
Yeah, these liquids of communication is time.
My point is...
And that's it.
He convinces them.
In a in a sort of nothing episode, that's a very good scene.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's the bit that they're going, oh, let's do that.
You know, that's clearly what's making this episode happen.
But it's not like, it's not like, um, cork, pork, rama, knock of
the Roswell aliens.
I mean, that tickles your testicles, doesn't it?
Just at the thought of it.
Yeah, yeah, it's so great, isn't it?
I feel like maybe they get just, they get more ambitious.
Oh, we're going to do the magnificent 7 with the Ferenke.
Yeah.
Ah, you're wrinkling my...
I'm gonna make them pay through their noses.
Oh man, I love him.
So this guy is credited as medical big shot.
In the closing credits?
Medical big shot.
Yeah.
It's about Toby Hado, because told me that it's much better to
have a name, you know, not the description.
Yeah, no, just be, you know, woman.
Your performance was so substandard in 2 lines that you had, we're
going to call you medical big shop.
I love the reaction of the extras behind when he doesn't win.
They're like, oh, really?
can't believe it.
Look at the woman behind Bashi.
She's appalled.
But Cisco has a thing Roget.
Who's he?
Why are they picking him?
You know, it's so great.
I think one fella just gets a sort of an off the cuff line, you
should have won. you know.
He's like, I'm going to get paid a little bit for dialogue.
Okay.
Yeah, it's just about nothing, is it?
And I do think, what's the end of series three?
They do a series of really quite fun B plots.
And this is probably the least substantial of all of them.
Yeah.
Well, it's just like the way it ends and that we go out of that
scene really quickly.
So it doesn't get the chance to land, but it's kind of like he's
in a worse place than he was now because like, he never...
You know, Rob just went, the only place the revised rules of
acquisition are are in my head and that goes...
Ah, look, he gets a pat on the head from May I do.
Oh dear, oh dear.
I have laughed a lot.
There's only one thing that bothers me, Nathan.
Did you have to go through this whole episode?
We didn't really get much out of it, you know?
Really?
Nothing happens.
But, but it's this.
This, and look at, look at, just the look on Max's face is so
funny.
It's so funny because he's so kind of, he's sort of gormless and
we think he's trustworthy, but like he's baring his teeth and he's
going, oh, is the senior administrator?
Senior administrator, brother.
So great.
It's really good.
That is the best scene. been such a good episode.
And just having them smile at one another.
And look, I think, does Quo put his arm around him?
Yeah, of course, he does.
It's just adorable.
That is a fabulous ending.
But the other following episode of the year, um, uh, House of Hawk
where, at the end, where he goes to him, oh, the customers are
bored of hearing the story now, Rom.
And Rom goes, no, tell me again.
And he starts telling him, and Brom's looking at him like it's the
most magnificent Frankie he's ever seen.
Yeah.
Oh, they I love those endings.
Yeah, I mean, I think we did house of quite quite early.
It might be our 2nd episode, I think, at Untitled Star Trek
Project.
And I think that that is magnificent.
And it is, as you said, another one where we go, let's just bring
these 2 Star Trek things together and get them to clash.
But I think, you know, it's got such a strong guest character in
Grill Car.
It's properly funny.
It gets, we get to see, is it Gauron, like reading the
spreadsheets and stuff, like all that stuff. really funny.
Do you remember?
She goes, what is that?
I really am very grateful quark.
And that is why I'm going to let you take your hand off my knee
instead of shattering every bone in your body.
They laugh.
Oh, that's great.
I love the Ferengi episodes, Nathan.
I know, I know if you sneeze, that episode would blow away.
It's like a massage to me, you know?
It's like umaks.
Like, yes.
But mostly it's down to the actors in this one.
It's just being around those people, having fun. is fun.
That they would learn to do this better.
They would learn to sort of throw in a high concept that really
really gets you excited.
But, you know, I enjoyed it.
Yeah, I had fun too.
All right, it's the end of the episode and we are going to make
another poor decision, I think, this week.
It's my turn on the randomiser and I am going to pick Star Trek
Enterprise.
Excuse me.
We are going to make another poor choice.
I made a superb choice for us to have some fun watching a Ferengi
episode of T Space 9.
Yeah, okay.
Why don't you make a more choice?
Choose enterprise.
I promise I may.
It could be the best episode of Enterprise ever.
Great.
I can't wait.
All right, here goes.
You're random Star Trek episode is Carbon Creek.
Season two, episode two.
Why?
Oh, no, that's not the one I'm thinking of.
You know what it is?
That's the one with the past.
Yeah, with the other Vulcan, who's a really great actor, and it's
very, very slight, but it gets all the sort of the emotional beats
right.
It's sort of one of those enterprise episodes that you're going to
forget, but doesn't do anything wrong.
Uh, I've really pressed it on again.
Series four, episode one, stormfront.
No, let's not do that.
Let's not do evil Nazis.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Although a lot of them get shot, which is kind of fun.
What do you think of this?
Your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is season four, episode
22?
These other voyages.
Yes, of course.
I mean, we've just done. the end of a series.
We may as well do another.
That's right I fear that sort of the quotes that I'll pull out for
that one.
Maybe the length of a Bible.
Yeah, people are very, very cross, I think.
No, that's just the actors that were involved.
I think that is a sublime choice that you've made there.
It is pretty good.
Like we did, in a sense, we did the real finale of Enterprise
didn't we?
The Terra Prime thing.
Which was pretty good.
Like it was, it was not bad, but yes, this is going to be a
thing.
And I tried to watch it once and then just thought, yeah, no, I
don't think so, I'm out.
I mean, it's got your 2 favourites.
Jonathan Frakes and Marina Saltis, isn't it?
Yeah, that's true.
But I've never reached the end of it or really probably got past
guiding credits, to be fair.
I bet some geeky Star Trek fans cut in. these scenes into the
Pegasus and it's amazing how Frekes, you know, gains and loses
weight with such alarming regularity.
I mean, we can't really skip past this one, can we?
No, I think if we've rolled it, we have to we have to do it.
I think I'm going to go in without too much of an opinion, except
for the Brannan Braga Rick Berman excuse that they made, which was
we were trying to tie up the whole of 90s Trek rather than just
Enterprise. and see how that works.
That's clearly true.
I can't wait to see all the DS9 and Voyager references that they
make in the episode then. can't wait.
But I think like bookending it with the original show is a thing
and you can understand why they might have wanted to do that.
I think people should be more disappointed that Enterprise doesn't
get a 5th season, to be honest.
You know, that it's the 1st show that gets cancelled before 7
seasons.
We came to that conclusion when we were watching that 2 parter
that this was starting to roll at this point.
Yeah, yeah.
And when we did that wonderful Vulcan episode.
Do you remember?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At 3 Barter.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, all right, I'm up for this.
This will be interesting.
And like I said, I haven't seen it before.
I don't have a strong opinion about it and you know me, I am a big
one for celebrating the Berman Braga era of Star Trek.
I've often seen waving a placard.
Yes.
Let's just try and remember that.
We only just did the counterclock incident and we were both pretty
mean about that.
You were quite mean about all good things when we were watching
that and I was very mean about endgame when we were watching
that.
Yeah, we tend not to like the finales.
Maybe this will be the one that sways us.
Perhaps.
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 19th of March 2024 and released
on the 5th of April.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise.
These are the voyages.
Yeah, I think that's it.
Wow, I've never seen this.
And like I said, I just You haven't seen it through.
No, I bowed out.
I just said, ah, this is for another time. can't be asked.
Well now's the time.
Now is the time.
I'm going to have to run though, right?
Because it's 10 now.
Okay.
Um, I'll say, but I am coming back before I go to work, so I'll
still get to these to you today.
Okay, cool.
Cool, cool.