Hey, Joe. Hi.
So we're back doing Star Trek, the original series, and this is
season two, episode 13, depending on how you count.
I'm going in broadcast order.
It's called Obsession, and we admitted, I think, openly to never
even having heard of it before, although that might not be true
for you.
I've reviewed this twice.
Oh my blog.
So I've definitely seen this before.
But we are literally, this is like halfway through TOS, isn't it?
The halfway point.
Yep, yeah.
I initially, I had one of those sort of moments because we watched
Galileo 7 last and I said that that was inept in a way that kind
of just made you wonder, you know, how it made it to air.
And that is a thing that occasionally happens with Star Trek.
You know, occasionally you get a Star Trek episode like Wolf in
the Fold where you kind of go, what the hell is everyone think
they're doing?
Manhunt.
Yeah.
But I mean, I'm in original trek where it's sort of really early
days and we're not quite sure what we're doing and sometimes we
just, you know, face plant horribly.
You know why, though?
You know why it's so shocking because it's starkly contrasted with
just exceptional work elsewhere.
Exactly.
It's not like they can't make great TV.
We had the doomsday machine earlier this season, not so long ago.
Which tribles was this season?
Yeah, yeah.
So when I saw this initially when I 1st saw the teaser, I thought
oh, no, this is not going to be very good at all.
That same alien planet again.
Only work.
Capolite.
That's right.
But I think it's really great.
I don't think it's like top tier, but I think it's absolutely
solid and Shatner is so good in it.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
In fact, the 2nd you said at the beginning of this episode, we're
back in the original series, did you see I smiled?
This is how I've turned a corner with the original series.
I love it when we go back here now. really fun.
It is great.
I said to you on the chat, I do think it's about 10 minutes too
long.
It's a bit wordy for its own good.
It could comfortably be 40 minutes and just be a very tight
story.
But as we've said before, you could probably level that at, no
just the original series and so let's cut it apart for that.
I've got a quote, if you don't mind, from Captain's log.
The complete voyages book here, but it's a very short one, and I'm
only, I only want to bring this up because it references what
influenced this, and I want to know your thoughts on that.
So it's from writer Art Wallace, who explains, Gene Roddenbury and
I were having dinner one night and then it came to me that it
wouldn't be a bad idea to do a version of Moby Dick, which became
obsession.
I just substituted the cloud, the great whale.
What do you think?
Well, I think that's kind of obvious.
I think that anyone watching it would be thinking that way, I
think.
Like, that's clearly an influence.
The big thing about the episode is you don't know, you know, at
what point Kirk is going to become the problem.
And it looks like he's heading towards being the problem.
It looks like he's heading towards being an intransigent idiot and
he looks like he's heading towards a kind of character breaking
moment and they pull back from it.
So even though he's obsessed, even though he is angry and all of
those things at himself and at the thing, he isn't actually super
irrational.
And I think there's a massively superb central scene between all 3
of the leads, where it looks like that's where it's heading.
It looks like he's crazy, he's Captain Ahab, but it's just Al Kirk
and he's there, and he's he's not irrational.
They're there to sort of hold up a mirror. he realises, doesn't
he?
Even while he's still acting in this obsessed way, there's some
sort of self-awareness to it.
There's a couple of other episodes in trick where they do this
sort of obsession theme, this sort of Moby Dick, they'll maybe
it's Les Miserables in one of them.
Uh, and that's the, you remember before the uniform where Cisco is
blazingly angry at going after Commander Reddington.
And then, of course, we've already covered Equinox, which features
insane Captain Janeway going after Ransom who's been murdering all
those Ghostbuster ghosts.
I think this is probably the best of the free.
I do love for the uniform, but that's far more of a two-handed
character tale than what this is.
I just think Shatner plays it brilliant.
I love the bit on the bridge where he suddenly goes, it's a
conspiracy against me and then suddenly everyone's looking at him
and he realises, oh.
Maybe I should have said conspiracy.
Yes, right.
And then the music kicks in. everyone's aware that he's a complete
nutcase.
But like Shatter's made for this sort of material, right?
Yeah, he's really good.
He's really properly good.
And our gym shines through from time to time and he just does keep
it light.
He doesn't make him stupid.
He doesn't make Kirk the problem.
Unlike a lot of season 3 that I've seen as well.
That sort of, sort of pushing it a bit over the top, doesn't go
over a cliff because there's several times in the 3rd series where
we're in pantomime territory, whereas this stays within a sort of
dramatic boundary, which is good.
Would you mind if I quoted from my blog, like a whole review?
I would love you to do that.
I thought I'd just read out the synopsis and show you how
impressed I was the last time I watched this.
Okay.
Here's what I said.
One of the best William Shatner performances in the original
series is Rum, because he has a chance to get his teeth into some
dark psychological material rather than simply devouring the
scenery, although there is a bit of that as well.
Obsession is an intelligent piece, dramatically excused, very
nicely acted, and featuring some memorable exchanges between the
trio of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
Aside from some overdone music at times.
What am I talking about?
I love that now.
We're talking too much 90s trek.
There are none of the hallmarks.
Overdone campness, ridiculous monsters, unconvincing romance that
usually embarrass about early trek.
It's incredibly focussed, directly told, and features a villain
that really gets under the skin, obsession and guilt.
Top 10 TOS for me.
So I definitely did watch this before.
No, I'm surprised I forgot.
I think that's absolutely fair.
You know, like there is a ridiculous monster and obviously there
is some over the top stuff, but we want that as well.
Those are not negatives.
Um, yeah, I just really enjoyed this and it was, it was just that
just teetering on the edge of being crap that just gave it that
edge, uh, to me, that made me really, really enjoyed.
There's a suspense about watching it.
This is going to go to hell.
To be fair, it's a position where we're in regularly with Star
Trek.
That's absolutely true. part of the experience, isn't it?
Oh, well, we should probably watch this, you know.
I think we should.
I do need to warn you of 2 things.
One, I will be singing a bit of incidental music.
So good.
And two, I have to inform you that 4 ones, you are in complete
agreement with Gemma.
Yeah, yeah.
I did actually check out German's review.
And yes, that is a horrifying position to find myself in.
But of course, he loves all this serious trek, doesn't he?
It's quite serious this episode, so of course he loves this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it seems...
I mean, for Star Trek.
Ridiculously serious, of course.
I'd say melodramatic rather than dramatic, but Exactly.
Not a bad thing.
All right.
I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
So I'm watching the new version with the new special effects.
This is not one of them.
This is a Jabalite rock that's been hastily spray painted.
With a small section that comes away when the phaser hits it, you
know?
I do like how Spock corrects him from saying it's 20 times as hard
as time into 21.4 times as hard and he just throws it away.
He just says, thank you very much.
Mr. Sparken doesn't sort of create a thing about it.
I want to say something about the cloud effects, which are so
simple.
And they're a bit, but I think he's signed a bit different, you
know?
Yeah, so it looks like like dry ice or something and now the now
the film's being run backwards.
That's what's effective, though, I think, because it's just, it's
acting in a weird way.
They obviously replace the space effect. is that's not the
original.
Look at that.
That beer rock looks so light.
It really does, doesn't it?
Leto, don't push that claw too hard. go straight through it.
So this where he can smell something, I thought that was weird and
cheesier and like is going on about the odour and he mentions it.
An odour is such an American word.
It makes me laugh.
Um, and I think that there's something clever, something
intelligent happening with that.
And we might talk about it later, but I think he is genuinely in
communication with this creature.
Who's uh, Kirk is?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Kirk knows that it's intelligent and purposeful, and later on
he, you know, learns that it's going home just from the smell, from
experiencing the smell.
And so it's a thing that communicates via smell, but it's also a
thing that can change its molecular structure, which would mean
that it would be able to create certain smells because smells are
just us detecting, you know, detecting the molecules, I guess.
I like the whole smell thing because it's such a sort of opaque
frat.
But it was another way to signal that it was about throughout the
episode.
And yeah, and that it's intelligent.
You know, like there is something, the way that it communicates
and stuff.
So it's incomprehensible, look at these fucking plants, will you?
Look at those.
I imagine that's what the Varga plants look like in the Dale.
Doctor Who.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're really bad.
I mean, this is...
No, look, it's the...
TNG season one planet set, look.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, are there?
Look, something's coming over, something's coming over the hill
behind them.
Quick, someone's there, like, go pop, pop, pop, get that dry ice
going.
So yeah, so there's another feature of this as well, where this
guy Rizzo, or they say Rizzo.
They pronounce it like he's Italian.
Rizzo, though, just like the character in Greece to film.
Yes, but they pronounce it the Italian way for some reason, which
I think is an odd decision, but like that's fine.
It's a shame.
I love these...
I love those POV shots of the clown attacking people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're not afraid to do a bit of freaky direction in TOS, are
they?
No.
And I think this is the thing that's terrifying.
Like, I think that this is the thing that terrified children.
And particularly when we see the dead bodies later and they're all
just white or much whiter, then they all were before.
Oh, shot there, that overhead.
It's been shot from the ceiling.
So you're seeing the entire size of the set.
Yeah, so that's what we end on before we go to the credits.
It's a really good shot that high.
What does he say?
Every car puzzle when their body uses sucked out or something is a
gray line.
Yeah, I remember it now.
Why are 2 of them completely white, like zombies and yet the
other...
Well, because Rizzo is still like Rizzo is still okay.
He's not dead, but the other 2 are dead because all of their red
corpuscles have been sucked out.
And again, there's a little bit of science there because we know
that Spock doesn't have haemoglobin with iron in it.
He's as copper based and so he's not vulnerable to the thing, which
comes up later.
That's such a great horror movie line by something that can't
possibly exist. doesn't exist.
Funny, see, that is.
That's that's so at this point I was like, okay, this is Galileo
7.
Plus those, that shitty planet, you know, like...
And then it goes, da, da, da, da, da.
I have to confess once again, I did skip over the opening music.
No, you can't do that.
This doesn't appeal to me at all.
It's a boring, it's a boring opening titles, but David, I've got
to tell you something right.
I want another podcast the other day and somebody said to me that
they thought that the Star Trek theme tunes have got successively
worse.
So he's including the Kurtzman's as it's gone along.
And I tried to make a defence for its sort of technical competence
you know, and beauty in kosmetry, and I wouldn't have it at all.
They were like, no, no, no, the original was the best and
everything that came after just gone.
All right, then.
That's fine.
Good for you, though.
Horses precautious.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In fact, one of the things that really sold me on Strange Street
Worlds was the new take on that music, you know, just a much more
propulsive and interesting version of that song.
You don't get writers' names like Art Wallace much anymore, do
you?
No, it is a very period name.
So he doesn't write any other Star Trek apart from co-writing
assignment Earth with, with, um, oh, we love that as well.
Yeah, Roddenbury.
Um, but this guy, Ralph Soneski, Sonenski, who directs he directs
stacks of stuff, like he directs 5 or 6.
And I think he does a great job.
The one of the really interesting things about this is how look
how green that wall is behind them.
Just for colours, like the doomsday machine.
There's lots of sort of half shadows on people's faces
throughout.
It's just more interesting to look at than that flat TNG line.
But I also thought too that because kind of the emotions are
heightened, you know, there's something like making the
background's much more dramatic, rather than that sort of gray
teal colour that we know those walls are, everything has this sort
of green lighting behind him.
And it's really striking all the way through, I think.
That'll strike me that forgetting how to light things sort of
moodily. is a bit baffling, isn't it?
as they, not, not, don't mean TOS.
I mean, you know, they get it right here for the most part.
And then when we hit 90 straight, it's just so boring, isn't it?
Do you think, do you think it has something to do with black and
white?
Like, because, you know, this is a show that's very proud of being
in colour, isn't it?
Like, yeah.
But they're still using the sort of the same techniques when black
and white was in where you had to use light and shadow in a really
striking way.
But I mean, you know, the reason the uniforms are all primary
colours and the colour scheme on the bridge and stuff is because
it's colour and look how colour it is.
It isn't just a HD that makes those colours pop, but they really
like, they really go staying with it.
I've got to say recently we did Muse or the Muse.
I can't remember the moves. right.
Yes, but I'm talking about Majel Barrett.
Yeah, the muse.
Oh, Vermuse. very confusing.
They shouldn't reuse styles.
She's barely aged.
I mean she obviously looks younger here, but she aged beautifully
didn't she?
She did age beautifully.
She is really great in this episode as well.
Now, she's getting...
We don't get to say that very often, Nathan.
No, she's giving him a few ccs of cordrazine, and cordrazine is
something that Beverly uses all the time in Star Trek the Next
Generation, unless it's very serious, in which case she uses
trichordrazine.
And you'll remember Man of the People, uh, in Man of the People
she used Cordrazine to bring Deanna back to life.
So it's powerful stuff.
Weirdly enough, not, though, the least convincing moment in the
next generation.
It's up there.
In fact, I thought all the sort of Dr. Bev moments in this episode
were split quite evenly between Nurse Chapel, understandably, and
Scotty, Vazali. oddly.
He's got to do something though, isn't he?
Exactly.
But look at look at Kirk here.
Like Kirk is clearly much more crazed than usual.
And he looks like he hasn't slept.
Like he's got sort of eye bags.
I mean, there's De Forrest Kelly who always has eyebags, but do
you know what I mean?
He looks, he's really super tense.
He's really, really stressed, and you wonder, like, that was the
thing.
For me, it wasn't just, is this going to just fall to pieces and
be a massive embarrassment, which is always an exciting
possibility with original series, but is Kirk's character going to
be kind of wrecked?
Is he going to become the problem?
And he doesn't, despite all of this?
And he gets to do some real proper acting.
That's one thing I'll say about Shatner is he might be, you know, a
fascinating egotist and attempting to steal the screen from
everybody.
We've heard great stories, you know, Julian from Voyage Home and
all that, where he's always trying to get the camera on him.
But for the most part, I think maybe some parts of three, this
isn't true.
But for the most part, he's totally invested in making this a
vehicle for his career.
And and for selling what they're doing, you know, because you
could so easily not.
He's being asked to be obsessed about a sentient cloud, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he just sells it.
He's really properly good, isn't he?
He's great.
So you saw the lighting in Sick Bay.
Like it's all purples and reds and stuff.
It's just like, why is it like that?
Why are we lighting it like that?
Because it's interesting.
Yeah, exactly right.
No one seems to know how to pronounce dicoronium.
And it's such an, it's such a TOS name for a substance, isn't it?
Dikeronium?
So awesome.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Let's assume it's intelligent, Nathan.
This gaseous cloud.
So he has got the impression it's intelligent.
So it's 11 years ago when his career starts, right?
I like that, though, that they wait this long to lean into his
past and explain sort of his 1st captain, its 1st ship and all of
this.
Yeah, yeah.
They, I mean, Farpoint in TNG. covered a lot of ground in that.
There was no room for any development after that because they
basically got the bios out of the way in the 1st episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they had much more kind of they had the whole paragraph bio
that they had to get through in FarPoint.
You know, we had to hear about the rape gangs.
They had seven, oh, Blake.
Okay.
That's the one line.
Mark always brings up whenever I mention TNG, you know.
So this is Stephen Brooks's Ensign Garavic, and Garavic is the son
of the captain of the Farragut, who, um, Kirk, uh, you know
served.
What a coincidence.
Well, that's okay.
But but I kind of like how this works because because we get to
see Enson Garavic go through the exact same thing that Kirk goes
through.
So when Kirk forgives himself for his moment of hesitation.
We get to see it because he forgives Garavic, and it allows him to
re-engage with that period of his life because it's not just like
and I did a bad thing and everyone died.
He doesn't have to think that about himself anymore.
I think that's so good.
Like that's such a great outcome.
You know how we've always said about how charming Kirk can be
relaxed with his crew.
I bloody love that bit there, where he goes, I don't expect
special treatment, sir, because you knew my dad. and Kurt just
cuts him down with, well, you won't get it here, so don't worry
you know?
So I want to know, though, why Garavik is standing like this?
like in this whole scene.
He's like standing look at his legs.
Yeah, yeah, like, he's holding the fucking, like, look at him.
Why is he holding the tricorder like that?
It's so...
Dramatic license.
Oh, I want to know why very often in original Star Trek, then men
look as edible as chocolate sundaes.
I mean, he's beautiful.
No, see, I think he's not quite beautiful enough, and this episode
would be much better.
Yeah, no, he's weird looking.
He's got terrible teeth.
He's gorgeous.
He reminds me of Maxwell Caulfield from Greece 2.
Okay.
I don't know that's a deep card that reference.
I think one of the guys behind him is much hotter than him and
maybe he'll come into shot.
Well, that's good.
We both join this away team.
There's someone for both of us.
No, this guy doesn't do anything for me.
He really is.
Oh, my God.
It's a shame.
The clown's coming.
Wait, I think I smell honey.
That's so great.
He looked so bored before it appeared.
He's just kind of...
There we go.
We're doing hard hell camera work.
Yeah, we're doing handheld.
That's pretty exciting.
Yeah, look at that.
There is just...
I can't believe I'm going to say this.
Oh, no, it's the guy on the left.
This guy on the left.
So much more dynamism and creativity with how they hold their
fucking cameras in the 60s.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look, it's come on, but it's true.
Oh yeah.
It's a space vampire, Nathan.
Yes.
So the guy at the back, I thought that because he'd been facing
away, they just had decided to save money and not make him up, but
he's still alive as well.
So that's a thing.
Although your production issue possibility, you know, that could
have been real as well.
Yeah.
Yes.
Very serious voice over here.
I am now even more convinced.
It's not only an intelligent creature, but the same which
decimated the crew of the USS Farragut.
So, so he says that 200 people died.
So, and says it's about half the crew.
Um, Yeah, which is not what decimate it means, but that's fine.
So sorry to always talk about the set dressing in TOS, but I swear
that table changes every time we go into this room.
Oh really?
Yeah, because it's been red before.
So I enjoyed the table in Kirk's quarters, which we'll see later
because it seems to be wood, which I think is a great choice.
Like, uh, one of the best things about that stupid set in in X-Jan
Just look at his red uniform against that green background.
It's really strong.
It's great, isn't it?
My eyes are very pleased.
Yeah, it's a kind of boring set that said.
You know, compared to the Star Trek, the Next Generation set, which
is much sad.
That's it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. boring, but that's a great shot.
Yeah.
And so this is, we will discover, the reason that Jim's being such
an assehole is that he's being an assehole to himself.
Um, yeah, look at his reaction to when he says it hovers.
It hovers and he, you know, might not have fired at it quickly
enough.
You were 20 yards away from this creature and you missed, got my
ship.
Yeah.
That's right didn't fire while it was hovering, sir.
Yeah, no, because he...
Come on, how do you sell this dialogue, but they do somehow.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it's all it's...
Look, it's Shagnay's so good.
It's the conviction, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And Shannon being unreasonable, like being like this is not
completely out of Shatner's wheelhouse, but it is him behaving
differently.
Look at the lighting behind him too.
You've noticed.
Oh, they put him in a uniform, which sort of accentuates his
muscles, but he's got chicken arms, Captain Kirk.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, one size smaller, said shadow, shadow.
You haven't got any muscles.
This was a sort of stuff we loved about the court mite maneuver
wasn't it?
Well, that guy who loses his shit.
Remember the guy who loses his shit on the bridge, that guy?
That's every TOS episode, really.
Yeah, I guess so.
And yeah, very often it is Captain Kirk, like here.
Hmm.
So, Yeah, so this as well, I love how he just says, no, we're not
having a dialogue scene now, write me. you know, like I'm just
leaving.
There he goes, you'll be filing both reports.
So they just walks out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't talk to me.
I'm not going to have this conversation with you like we do in a
normal episode.
Will you look at this set?
The purple licing?
It's wonderful.
I know we're going on about it a lot. don't get to say nice things
about how things look in Star Trek.
Apart from Kurtzman Trait, usually.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, this is where this is where Scotty has this wonderful Dr
Fair's deadly light.
They desperately need the medicine captain in the colony, you
know.
So I think that we get to mark down every next generation episode
where the motivation is that we've got to deliver the medicine to
the colony over here.
That's just absolute bullshit.
Yeah, about 10 years, isn't it?
Next generation.
It does seem to have a great deal and they've just stolen it from
this.
I'm not sure it adds much suspense to this one either, though.
The episode would have been fine if they didn't have somewhere
urgent to be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I guess because we have to see him disobeying orders in order
to do this.
But there's no consequences for it, and he makes the point that
he's allowed to do it, and that's super interesting in that
scene.
The next time I'm at work, I'm going to try that line.
It's a conspiracy against me.
I love this.
I love this. comes in and says, yeah, I need some advice. and he
says, well, I'm going to need a drink then. if you want to.
I mentioned that in my review as one of the best exchanges.
I also said my review as well.
I love the fact that the thing that McCoy always throws at him as
an insult is green blood is actually pivotal to his blood.
Yeah, so very important.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, these, I mean, like, I do think it is a shame that the other
regulars really don't get much of a cut of pie a lot of the time
Ahura and check off people like that.
But there is a reason why they keep going back to the three, and
that's because it just works like Gangbusters.
It's great telly when they're together.
This scene looked like it was going to be a explain the human
feeling you call obsession, but actually ends up providing and
giving a good reason for Spock to know what happened in the past
and to tell McCoy so we get to see it so that we don't have to see
them reading it or something like that.
Like Spock's read it fast to the McCoy because he's Spock.
And so he's able to deliver the, um, and, you know, it's not
tedious.
Like, it's quite a good scene.
You've got McCoy's reaction and it gets us to reinterpret what's
happened.
Even when they're both on the same page, they still sort of throw
barbed in themselves.
The spot goes.
Well, don't worry, doctor.
I can read a lot faster than you.
Well, I don't think I don't think that's a dig.
And so look at the book.
Well, I don't know.
It's just I like...
Their dynamics are fab.
So again, the parallel already now is drawn between Garavik and
Kirk, because they both retire to their quarters and they're both
lying there and he's having a bit of a voiceover, obviously.
Why letting the horror distort my judgement?
But that's interesting as well because that shows that he's
rational, that he isn't, you know, mad.
And I think this scene, which does go on for quite a long time, is
maybe the high point of the of the show, just because they're all
so good.
I mean, it's great, but it's very funny how, you know, when it
goes to Paul Ranklin, it goes, you know, I'm the medical officer
and I'll say whether you're working or not.
Spock is literally waiting outside the entire...
It sounds wonderful.
So look at the skull on the on the bench behind him.
There's a skull.
It's just come out of it's just moved out of shot.
But there was a skull on the thing and I'm kind of thinking, who
put that there and why?
And it's like, it's like a memento Maury, you put a little skull
in an image or a skull somewhere that reminds you that you will
die.
And, and so in a way, like, I don't think I'm overreading it here
I think it's there because, because Kirk is thinking of the people
who died on the Farragut and it was his fault.
And I think that's just a way of getting that across in a sort of
subconscious way.
Well, I'll keep my eye out to see if you've seen other episodes
because we go to Kirk's quarters quite a lot. quite a lot.
But I'll see if they're putting that much thought into this or
not.
Yeah, yeah.
It seems like it seems like a thing.
Because I also think it's really great because he delays it firing
at it and so does Garavic.
And Garavik hasn't, you know, resulted in the deaths of lots of
people, but 2 people will, you know, have died because Garavik
hesitates.
Whereas for Kirk, it's 200 people, including his beloved captain.
Um, Yeah, I think there's a lot in original trek.
This, um, you know, the captain is the head of the ship, the most
important person there.
If he's behaving irrationally, then you know, something is going
to go seriously wrong.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like the king in a Shakespeare play.
Like it's absolutely...
It's far more of a flat structure nowadays, isn't it?
Yeah, well, yeah, sort of, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so this, he's still continuing to blame himself and and
McCoy's telling him it's irrational, it's unreasonable.
Yeah, yeah.
And just I can't believe it's selling these lines.
The malevolence, I know, it's evil.
It must be destroyed.
And he teeters on the edge of, and you kind of, this is the bit
doesn't know.
It doesn't lose it.
I think he's convincing.
Well, he comes back from it in this scene.
That's what's so interesting about it.
In this very scene.
You know, this is where he teeters closest to the edge of becoming
the problem, don't you think?
Watching their faces without hearing the dialogue, the intensity
of the looks between them.
Like, look at McCoy looks like he's about to murder him.
Yeah.
Well, because Kirk's literally just...
Look at Kirk's reaction.
Look at Kirk's reaction now.
He's actually taken aback by the fact that McCoy is doing that. and
now he's going to the door to get... waiting outside.
He'd be there sort of in the frame of the door.
No, he kind of knows...
Then I just go.
This is the beat where I thought he would lose his shit about
being, you know, conspired against, like he was saying on the
bridge earlier.
And like he, when he says this, like he's not playing it as I'm
crazy and you're standing in my way.
He's playing it as, oh my god, this is the, this is where we are.
Like, this is where we've reached this.
You know, I'm maybe I'm the problem, you know.
I like it.
It doesn't do the obvious dumb thing because he's got to be our
captain next, you know, like next time, next episode.
He can't be the main problem here and they deftly make him not the
problem.
I think that's where uh, Equinox 2 failed miserably because
everyone's just...
You're behaving irrationally, Captain Janeway and she's going, I
don't care.
She could make our telly.
I don't care.
The best thing about for the uniform when they did this is Cisco
sort of realises halfway through.
And then he realises he's got to play the villain because that's
Edinton wants to be the hero of the thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he leans into it wholeheartedly. far missiles on a planet. don't
care.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's wonderful Well, you see, this thing, like he ends up being
right, doesn't he?
Like he ends up being right that the thing can communicate with
him because he's able to predict that it's going to go to the
other planet at the end.
And so it is a thing that uses, you know, emits molecules that we
can pick up by smell and thereby communicates.
So Kirk has proved right about all of that.
And I think then Spock agrees with him, doesn't he?
Yes.
Like, yeah.
I agree with you, I think this is the centrepiece of the episode.
When that cloud appeared on the viewscreen, I was so happy because
we had just been standing around in rooms for about half an hour
at this and I was like, finally, we're going to get some action
and that clouds back and doing some crazy shit.
But look at look at Shatner.
Look at him thinking, you know, like he's, he's, he's not Captain
Ahab here.
He is reasoning with Spock.
Like my intuition, you know, that's part of my job as a
commander.
I have intuitions and I'm, you know, it's reasonable to follow
them.
And he's saying you're all doing the right thing by questioning
me.
And he even says to McCoy, doesn't he?
Keep the medical lock entry open.
Do you know?
Maybe, like, in case I...
I may behave more rationally, right?
It remains open and he smiles.
Look, look.
Like, it's good.
It's so well done.
It's really great.
It's, they just, this three.
They just got it right, didn't they?
They really got it right.
There's a reason why they keep trying to simulate this in the
latest series.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that never lands.
It, like, Neverlands.
Yeah, we go now.
The cloud's coming along. going super fast.
So this is not the original cloud that you and I are watching.
This is a...
CG cloud.
I did see pictures of it in memory alpha.
And I think it looked a lot like the, you know, there's an optical
effect.
No, but the other optical effect that they use on the cloud when
it appears on the planet, not the smoke, but the other kind of
overlay effect that they have.
Like fairy lights.
Yeah.
Yeah, just missed.
I don't think they do the lights or anything.
Poor old Chekhovs doing nothing but pushing buttons in this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, they're being scenery, aren't they?
They're being like the discovery crew.
It's just like, you know, these girls.
I'm not sure she's even picked up a signal or anything.
Yeah, she did.
No, she said something before she relayed some news from the
Yorktown, I think, earlier.
So here it is.
Yeah, see that's modern digital effect, isn't it?
Can I do it?
Do you mind?
Is it da, da, da, da, da, da, da. favourite music.
It's so great.
What was I talking about in my review?
I know, the music's really good.
I think, honestly.
I feel as if you've turned me.
That's the trouble.
I'm tired of Star Trek project, you know, you've made me realise
just how shit night is.
Well, suddenly the music is terrible.
I really enjoyed it till I started talking.
I exist to ruin people's fun.
So this little bit of detail is good too, because the open the
open hatch, do you know what I mean?
which is established he was fixing it before, blah, blah, blah, and
it's how it gets in.
Oh, and this.
We keep up the speed.
Get blown up.
And then, and so Coco goes, oh, maybe we shouldn't blow up then.
He thinks about it.
Spock looks at him and he goes, yeah, no, actually that's crazy
isn't it?
Like, yeah.
Okay.
Oh, God.
But it was never going to go any other way, was it?
Like he was in, because that would have been too far.
I was wondering whether to self-sacrifice himself.
He's sitting in there in his quarters, wondering why he left the
purple light on, I think, probably.
Oh, I love this scene with Nurse Jack.
I do too.
Look at her.
Either you feed yourself or we're gonna put a drip on you and
force feed you.
And it's all a line.
Like, none of it's true because she shows this, the prescription.
This is the prescription from the doctor and it has one word on it
eat.
And then in the next scene, she returns it to seek bait and he
identifies it as some journal article about some other pathogen or
something.
So she's just bluffing. really good.
You know, obviously, Spock is my favourite character in the
original series.
So I'm pleased of the changes that were made.
For what the, you know, the show ultimately became.
I would have loved for her to have been number one as well
though.
Yeah, and seeing what.
She's a great. she's a really good actress.
Yeah, she really is.
And she gets the odd moment like this, but a lot of the time, you
know, she's ducking soup and moving after Spock and, you know, that
terrible sexist that occurs in a lot of original Star Trek.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it is. and she's, you know, she's manipulating him in order
to get him to, is that food?
No, no, that's the, that's the prescription.
So that yellow thing.
She's saying that's McCoy's prescription.
It has one word on it. eat.
You have to eat, the doctor says, I will force feed.
Then she puts it back in the box and he ident- oh, she identifies
it as a journal article.
Oh no, he does.
Respiration disease.
Diseases.
And she just goes, ah, you know, it's just applying psychology
using it as a prop.
And it was lovely because we had a little bit of that.
Well, in fact, there's a line from that portrayal of her to the
Strangely World's portrayal, I think.
In moments, yeah.
But God, number one is Strangely Wales.
No, no, no.
So good.
She's Star Trek royalty, Rebecca Remain.
Oh, that, what was that food?
A load of plaster scene.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the stuff that comes out of the replicator or whatever, the
food thing.
They love in moments of mania.
They love throwing things on the wall.
So he throws the thing at the wall and switches the active
ventilation thing to bypass, which will enable the cloud to get
into his room later and make it unable to get it out.
So he's broken the thing and that's all very obvious, which I just
think, come on.
But see, what I like here, like it doesn't fully land, like they
don't say it, but we see it happen.
We see them fire the phases at the cloud and it doesn't work.
And that's the moment that both Garavic and Kirk C, which absolves
both of them from the guilt of the deaths that came afterwards
which I think is really good.
The reason I love the cloud is the same reason I loved that weird
shape in the Corbin mite maneuver, and the reason I love the Bork
cube in Q Hu is because it cannot be reasoned with on any level.
And for Star Trek, the original series for it not to have, you
know, the mysterious voice that the clouds often do have.
It's just an evil fucker that's going to kill people.
Well, like the doomsday machine as well.
Yeah, but like, you know, this is a show all about sort of
rationality, isn't it?
And sort of logic and emotion and, you know, talking things to
death and things like this.
They can't do it with this.
Yeah, so something, something implacable and incomprehensible.
Look at, look at.
He's just playing that, he's pressing those buttons like an
absolute demon.
Check off.
The plough is covering the entire screen now.
It really feels like it's...
Do you see it surrounding the enterprise?
I can't remember No, no, it's gone in through the vent.
It's gone in through the vent.
They couldn't have tried that.
So it's gone in through the vent and it's going to end up in
Garavic's quarters hilariously.
Oh, bit of technobabble.
Thanks, Scotty.
Yes, that's what he's here for.
Oh, and we've killed 2 people.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
No, one's alive, one's not.
Oh, that's kind of good, isn't it?
You can add that little price tag to your little monster hunt
Captain Kirk.
Yeah, so he's still angry, isn't he?
He's still kind of angry.
He's still accusing him of being irrational, but look at Kirk's
response.
Yeah, this is great.
Gentlemen, could we please stop talking, stop belabouring the
point.
I'm like, we should have got out of the creature because we found
the creature.
It's in the ship.
Oh, yeah.
And this is the point where Spock is definitely on his side.
It really is not just a cloud, it's an intelligent creature.
I think Shatner looks very handsome there, you know?
Yeah, I think there are, I think Shatner is a handsome man.
There are moments when he's sort of over, he overdoes the makeup a
bit and...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's still got a lot of eyeliner on this episode, I seem to.
I think Jimmy Dooman thinks he's handsome, but he's not.
That's probably fair.
Oh, I'm sorry, Jim.
I was wrong Here we go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There you go.
And it is, like, it's just normal, rational kind, people, and look
at, look at Kirk smiling, you know, he's...
He's not the problem.
Did he just say the creature's ability to throw time out of sync.
No, he throws himself out of time, sync.
Like, I don't even know what that is or that come from or why we
needed that at all.
It's a bit like they like throwing these things in. like, do you
remember when they said about what was it?
the map of the galaxy or whatever it was, contain.
Do you remember?
The Galactic Barrier or whatever.
They just throw random things in every now and again.
So that's the thing, the time sink thing is that that 22nd delay
that both Kirk and Garavik did when 1st shooting at the creature
would have made no difference because, you know, they shot the
thing with the phaser and it went straight through the creature.
And so it wouldn't have, it wouldn't have, um, yeah, here we go.
Is this spocky to explain that?
What does that explain then why Captain Kirk or Ensign Kirk
whatever he was back in the day, couldn't...
Yeah, either of them.
Neither of them could have saved everybody because it would have
had no effect.
And I think these... shit, though, and it giving them a get out
clause.
Well, no, I think you need it.
I think you absolutely need it because you need a kirk who's been
healed of this.
You need a kirk who's not haunted by this, and that's how it ends
where he goes and spends time talking to Garavic about his
father.
And so Garavik is healed from his guilt and also gets to
reacquaint with his father, rubbing that weird prickly exchange
that they had about the father earlier on when he 1st came on and
Kirk was being a bit of a nutcase.
It's very kind of you to come, Mr. Spock.
No, no, no.
Kindness is a human emotion, Mr. Garovic.
I'm not afflicted with that.
And here we close this episode. finally, the cloud attacks.
You smell something, Nathan?
Yes, it smells like honey.
It does.
What's he doing?
Oh, he's going to, he's putting his hands in front of the face.
All right, he's discovered that he's discovered that doesn't
work.
No, he tried to flick the switch back, but stupid Garavic broke it
when he threw the tray, the lunch tray.
It often works, you know, that would work perfectly in this
scenario.
You know, when they open up cargo bay doors and suck something out
and they'll just hold onto a console and don't get sucked into
space. would work perfectly right now.
Well, if it still had an ejector hatch like it did in the animated
series.
They could just open that up.
I know it's so simple, just that reverse effect.
Yeah, it's pretty.
But I do like it.
Yeah, I like it too.
What is that device?
Is he the fellow you said you thought was quite pretty?
That one there.
No, no.
Oh, no, it's quite pretty, isn't it?
I don't think I'd mind serving on this ship, you know?
Yeah, I think they look slightly weird.
They saw a loop as well, with the morals.
They don't mind them all.
Back it up on the Enterprise, don't I?
I guess not.
Yeah.
Oh, so there we go.
Thank you, Spark.
The reverse pressure worked.
We're in 90s territory again. explaining everything.
Well, I mean, it is just reversing the air pressure closes.
The vent makes sense.
It's not super technical.
There is.
It says green blood up his.
Well, doctor, my reverse haemoglobin.
There we go.
He's not taking the insult at all, spokes.
Can you say how colloquially expressed?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He says, but still essentially correct, doctor.
So this, this bit where we just admit, yes, he is in communication
with the creature.
And so the sense that he gets that it's alive and evil isn't just
him, you know, deciding that because he needs that to be true in
order for, you know, not to have full responsibility for the
deaths or whatever to, you know, 11 years ago. don't know.
You know, it is why we're inism.
We have met about 4 gaseous clouds already on TOS, and none of
this came up at those points.
Well, they were different types of gaseous clouds, I think.
I remember last week.
I remember last time when we were talking about the one in Lonely
Among Us, which is sort of a gaseous cloud, isn't it?
Oh, yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, that's a gaseous cloud that just takes over people, you
know?
Yeah, definitely to behave in strange ways.
So I don't, I, yeah, so I don't quite get...
I don't know.
I don't quite get why I don't know this so well.
I knew that.
Yeah, all me.
Yeah, so Kirk.
Kirk being on the Farragut as his 1st mission, his 1st posting.
I think I did know that.
And I think that we've referred to that maybe in Strange New
Worlds or something.
But this isn't an episode that's sort of come up or been redone or
been referred to in anything.
Is it?
Like I just can't think of.
It sort of vanishes without trace. do think this is very well
done.
But when you sort of break it down, there's a scene on a fake
planetary landscape, there's lots of talking on the enterprise.
Captain Kirk behaving obsessively, and this has all happened
elsewhere.
So I think it could shuffle very easily into the pack.
There's not that sort of one, even the cloud monsters.
We do cloud monsters elsewhere as well.
And in shitter episodes, and very often you remember the crap ones
more than the good ones.
Yeah, I mean, I guess the thing that's really good about this
episode is that it's well directed and that the script is
interested in the characters.
Yeah, that's right.
And just having that, you know, that great parallel between young
kirk look.
See, Garavix are a little bit more relieved now that he's not to
blame for everything.
Chekhov was bent over that console.
Captain Kirk walked in and just stared straight at his bum.
Did you notice that?
Well, you would, you would.
I would.
I think you would.
Although now Kirk's bending over him, Captain Kirk turned away.
Oh, no, no, Spock's still looking.
I mean, Kirk's still looking at Spock's bum for a 2nd there, I
think.
That's the sort of insightful combination.
This is why people choose.
What's going on in those displays behind?
It looks like some weird sort of arty ink splot.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know what that is.
They sort of hinted that a little bit in the design of the Strange
New Worlds enterprise set, I think.
But yes, they look great.
I think they look so good.
Strange new world sets.
Oh, yeah, but these...
Please, I don't care. 20 episodes.
Please, can we watch another one soon?
Yeah, so good.
Well, they're shooting series 3.
Okay, when it starts, then we've got carte blanche.
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
Yes, yeah, see, that's super interesting.
Isn't it?
So he can he can communicate with it.
He can understand what it's saying.
I like it.
We even do that, though, don't we?
Remember Spock and the halter?
in that episode where you're in communication. with it. yeah.
But it's all good stuff, but it's all sort of...
Yeah, I guess so.
I guess so.
Yeah, I guess this is a solid episode that doesn't shit the bed in
any kind of spectacular way.
And we've watched, you know, wolf in the fold and yeah, yeah, yeah
yeah, Galileo 7.
Do you think that was the worst dwarf in the fold that we've
done?
Um, no, it had some things going for it.
Oh, you forget sexual politics.
I think I, I think I thought that Galileo 7 was pretty poor.
Although he'd had good things going for it.
What is brain?
Yeah.
Spock's brain like has a woman in a miniskirt with a big gun on
the Bridge of the Enterprise.
So there is that.
Like, that is pretty great.
A most hairy primitives.
Do you remember?
Yeah, yeah.
There's plenty to laugh at at least.
Yeah, yeah.
I do like, so we go back down onto the planet in a minute and
there's some wonderful execution there.
Some great camera work.
Keep an eye on it.
Yeah.
I actually really like the bit where Garavic goes to attack, like
attacks Kirk to stop him from sacrificing himself, and Kirk says
I'm not sacrificing myself.
Can you know who I am?
No, I'm not going to do that.
Do you think that useless bunch can run that shit without me?
Come on now.
Plus I'm William Shatner, you know.
I also like to.
I was expecting Garavik to die, like, and I think that would have
been a mistake.
And so you have, you have, um, McCoy.
You have Nemoy setting it up by saying, you know, under these
environmental conditions.
We could lose someone.
And then you have the sort of gaff view mastershot of them taking
forever to re-materialize in the transport to pay.
But I'm glad they kill them.
That line there, it's going to take 2 men to do it.
Well, of course it is.
Yeah, yeah.
The 2 men winning to go down.
Look, so look at this.
It's that thing floating in the air.
Yes, it's anti-gravity.
Isn't that cool?
Was it flowing in the air originally, though?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, no, I think that's the intention that it can just fly in the
air.
I think probably there was a wire, probably originally, but
they've taken out.
They didn't do anything to nomads wires, remember, and they were
really bad.
Oh, no math.
Wow, great robot.
But I love this.
I like they just let go of it.
I mean, the bottom of it's not in shot in that shot, but I just
love...
No rud coming up the chute.
Do you remember?
No, man, so awesome.
Oh dear.
Okay, here we go.
But dramatic showdown with the cloud.
Yes, yeah.
Will they possibly defeat it?
I think they will.
Yeah.
But it's more excuse for the crazy music to kick it, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dramatic zooms.
See, that looks like, see that?
That's weird.
I think that that's probably what it looked like through the
thing.
So the plan goes wrong at the last minute, doesn't it?
It drinks all lahema thing, all the blood stuff that has been
provided by Dr. McCoy, hemoplasm.
Yeah.
So we'll have to use something else for bait.
I was going to call this episode Red Shirt Party because there's
quite a few red shirts that die.
He should have done he should have done what Avon did in Blake 7
to Villa and just thrown Gary.
You're wearing a red shirt.
It's the same colour as blood.
It's fair game, mate.
Yeah, yeah.
Chop.
There we goes.
Down he goes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
People's collarbones are notoriously weak on TOS, aren't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But I should have.
Oh, no.
The whole rock face just moved.
Oh my god, they all set.
Yeah, but that, that, like you're on report.
That's so funny He's doing the tombstone machine thing, isn't he?
Spock, come on now.
Not quite as camp.
But I did think that that was...
I thought that was terribly cute because it's an episode that
raises the question, is Shatner acting irrationally and basically
says, no, he's not.
But for a 2nd you think, oh, maybe he is trying to sacrifice
himself and Garavek hasn't quite worked out how the episode works
yet.
Look at this.
The camera work here, it's the POV of the cloud coming out.
Yeah, yeah, just...
And then staring straight at it.
It's really good, isn't it?
And you know what music you've got here?
I think I think that Jama did say something about the score.
Here we go.
He likes it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's a fabulous explosion.
It's every cue from every episode.
It's great cues.
They, yeah, they're great cues and they deploy them really well.
Yeah, see?
Look at just the race.
Nemoy's eyebrow race is so good.
So great.
I love the app.
I always love the acting of the people in these moments.
So watch Dr. McCoy here where it's like, oh, God, are they going
to make it?
Because loads of Star Trek episodes do this. you know, we all know
they're gonna make it.
They're really trying to sell it.
Will we get them back this time?
No, but I love this thing.
Spock is currently cross-circuiting to A, but that doesn't quite
work.
So he goes, yeah, cross circuiting to be.
And then later on, he claims that he saves the...
Crazy way to travel, spreading a man's molecules are over the
universe.
I thought it was just perfectly tied.
And realised...
I checked that back, or I can get behind.
Cross-so A, that didn't work.
Let's try and be.
It works.
But then we do a comeback to be.
Like, it's really kind of funny.
Oh my god.
We're all okay.
He's so happy checking his lands.
He's been through a nervous breakdown.
I'm confronted with the horrors of the past.
He's like, well, that's that then.
Yeah, yeah, but but McCoy goes, thank goodness or thank the good
Lord or something like that.
And, uh, and, uh, spot goes, no, no, it was me cross circuiting to
be.
There was no deity involved, which I think was pretty great.
So, well, do you remember that medicine we were supposed to?
Oh, yeah, yeah. we're doing that now.
Yeah, yeah, we'll do that now.
It's in the fridge.
It'll be okay.
You'd sell by dates.
You know, they were always a couple of days conservative, I
think.
Imagine, though, he is that charming Captain Kirk that we love
isn't he?
But it's because this is him forgiving his young self and
reacquainting himself with that time.
Now it's okay for him to talk about Captain Garavic, because he
knows that he wasn't responsible for the death, and he's kind of
in some way, you know, taken revenge, I guess, even though that
doesn't seem to be the kind of primary motivation at that point.
I thought that was just good, just solid, fun, enjoyable, you
know.
I do have to say that Netflix has started playing wolf in the fold
now, and that exotic bow dance was on my screen.
So unfortunately, this solid competent TV is about next week
however, next week, we also got the shot of Nomad spraying Ahura
in the face on the closing credits in the still, you can't see it
because you're watching the next episode, but the closing credits
was just Nomad firing a beam at Ahura's face.
And there's Jolene Blaylock there at the very end of the credits.
You know how those robots go about on discovery, you know, what
are they called?
The dots, they're called dots, fabulous robots.
They should have kept Nomad at the end of that episode.
And you should just see them every now and again, floating past
vacuuming.
Just like vacuuming somewhere. doing some tolls, you know.
I mean, they've got the prop.
Why not?
Yeah, you're right.
That was really good.
I'm not sure I enjoyed it as much as I did when I reviewed it on
my website.
I was sort of watching Star Trek out of order like this, but I'd
seen some pretty terrible TOSs.
I think the one I watched before, this was the one with all the
evil kids in series 3, which is a loathsome episode.
So this automatically scored points there.
But yeah, in terms of characterisation, in terms of performance, uh
and sort of tackling its theme in an engaging way.
Yeah, I think that's a winner.
We've seen a lot worse. have.
Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to
find out where we're going next.
Obsession was my excellent choice this week, and so it's your turn
Joe, what series are we choosing from?
Well, then, we're on a roll.
We did that brilliant triple short trek.
We did a great DS9 episode.
We've done a really good TOS episode.
Something shit from series one and 2 of Star Trek The Next
Generation, I would think.
Oh, I did say I was going to do that, didn't I?
Right, yes.
Let's clear everything and put in Star Trek the Next Generation
and I'm not stopping until it's one of the 1st 2 seasons.
No, no, that's my condition.
Oh, 2 seasons.
Okay?
All right. settle in Okey dokey.
Oh, no, it's not, I'm afraid.
So we can't do it.
It is the best of both worlds.
Okay, my first.
No, it's the 1st 2 kids.
All right. fist.
Oh no, another brilliant episode.
En some Row.
Oh, no.
Maybe this was a dumb idea.
Come on, a matter of perspective, the most toys.
Oh, yes.
Oh my god.
Is it?
Is it code of honour?
No, but it is a Tashiara episode.
Season of Evil.
Episode 23.
Innovation.
Skin of evil.
Oh my god.
Did I send you the picture?
So there was the Star Trek like cruise and it was, it was Denise
Crosby running away screaming from someone who was cosplaying his
arms.
Oh, yeah.
That was a great costume.
It was the same ball gown that they chopped up and turned into
arms.
I can't believe we're doing skin of evil.
I'm going to let you on a little secret.
I know, I know this is a shitty episode.
I love it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It wins the booby prize for the least convincing blob of blood in
Star Trek.
What the hell is that thing on her cheek?
It's very strange.
That's the cheesiest funeral scene you're ever going to see
television ever.
I'll almost certainly tear up, I think, probably, but that's just
me.
And it's got some great moments with Troy, that fucking weird
monster that's very cheap, but somehow a bit scary.
I think as well.
Oh, what a joy.
Yeah, no, we have to do it.
Absolutely.
Brilliant.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 5th of March 2024 and released on
the 15th of March.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, Skin of
Evil.
Wow.
Skin of evil.
Perfect.
Oh my god.
Gator, something's got me.
What about what about, um, what is it, KY jelly or something?
Like, like, that's tar, isn't it?
No, no, no, but remember they submerge frakes in it.
Like it Frakes's face is like one of the ad breaks and stuff.
Brilliant quote about that as well.
Yeah.
LeVar Burn turned to him afterwards and said, Fraser, you're mad
would have done that.
He's trying to impress at this point, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it worked for him.
It, you know, it's a very long career.
It's working about Denise Crosby leaving as well and like some of
the quotes that, you know, god damn it, what did I do?
I don't think she regrets it, but I don't think she thought it was
going to be a success either.
Yeah.
She did a lot.
I mean, I might actually pull up her IMDb and sort of point out
some of the work she did afterwards because she's been busy.
I see.
Yeah, she should.
I watched her on a brilliant.
We're watching with Mark and my friend Lucy.
We're watching very slowly because Lucy only comes around every a
couple of weeks.
An episode of Dexter each time she comes around and she was like
Dr. Death in one episode where she was administering a too higher
dosage and murdering patients.
And God bless her.
She, she goes back to her flat, Denise Crosby, and um, she's got
this weird relationship with the cat, like she's this lonely
catwoman, and she's going, oh, Mr. Frickles, I love you.
And then Dexter knocks her out.
And honest to God, she's completely naked in this scene with just
a bit of shrink wrap around her sort of midrift. and she plays out
the whole scene naked.
It's brilliant.
Yeah.
Bless her.
Awesome.
Oh, I'm glad that you should do anything for a paycheque.
At this point.
But she's certainly, she's certainly traded in on the Star Trek
now, though, because she does more convention appearances than
anyone.
Yeah, yeah.
No, well, we love her.
She's tremendous.
She's brilliant.
But, uh, more or so.
Yeah, that'll be a brilliant commentary.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we haven't done.
Oh, we did justice.
Yeah, she's been, remember the picture on the, on the, um, for
justice.
There's that picture where it's her and Troy standing on either
side of a man wearing nappies, like unattractive white guy from
the planet Justice wearing a nappy.
Yeah, yeah, it's got a bit of moose knuckle happening there.
And she's looking off camera at her age of kind of going, can you
just get me the fuck out of this stupid show?
Oh, I'll get to talk about the fact that this wasn't the last
episode she shot as well.
Yeah, she waved the one where she.
Yeah, yeah.
From behind.
It's really obvious.
It's adorable.
Oh, there's so many talking boys on that one.
I think that one's going to be an easy and easy one to talk
about.
Yeah, I think so too.
Like, but that wasn't hard to talk about.
But because it's a lot of men talking in rooms.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, this was good.
Like it had a thing.
It had an R.
Yeah, it had things to do. as well.
Yeah, yeah.