WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:23:32

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, it's our 100th episode, and to celebrate, we are doing a spectacular episode of Deep Space 9.

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I think we both agree.

4
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Is that right?

5
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I think this is bloody brilliant.

6
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This is one of my favourites from the last series, which is one of my favourite series of Star Trek, which is why we keep coming back.

7
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We promise you it is random.

8
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It just happens to randomly always kick us into. like how the randomiser just tends to avoid TNG series one and two, have you noticed?

9
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Yeah, it's upsetting.

10
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It's doing us a favour, really.

11
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And we've obviously got a lot of earlier DS9 to get through.

12
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But this is very, very good. so good.

13
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Yeah.

14
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I thought this was properly good.

15
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So this is the 6th of the 9 episode run, including the double length episode that ends the series.

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Two episodes ago was The Changing Face of Evil, which we've already done.

17
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That was yours and mine, sort of favourite soap operatics we've had, yeah, in Star Trek, you know.

18
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Kai Wynn, facing up to the fact that the man she's been shagging, it's dug culture car, fabulous demar, causing a revolution and breaking off from the Dominion.

19
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Poor old Sabor.

20
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Oh, yeah, he's being stabbed in the back.

21
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And then his blood setting fire to the book of the coast emoji.

22
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Oh my god, what nonsense. was really fun.

23
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So that was incredibly fun.

24
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This is different though.

25
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Yeah.

26
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This is proper, I think.

27
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And so there's essentially 3 plots here.

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We've got what I think is the best plot, which is Damar and Kira.

29
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So clearly last week.

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Kira ends up in a Starfleet uniform working with Damar on the rebellion that he kind of started the week before.

31
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Do you remember the scene?

32
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It starts, it literally cuts to Cisco's office and Kira's standing there going, you want me to go to Cardassia and teach a bunch of Cardassians, how to be rebels?

33
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Do you realise what you're saying?

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Cisco goes, the runabout's waiting.

35
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Off you go.

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And it turns out that it works out really well this episode.

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I think that that's absolutely the strongest one with some incredible performances from everyone, you know, including Casey Biggs, including Nana Visitor and Renee.

38
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Oh, and Andrew Robinson.

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So good.

40
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And when you say him last, you know, we're in good, you know, we're in good space.

41
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So many great character moments within that strand.

42
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But so much of it leaning into the Cardassian Bajoran conflict that has gone back right to the start of the show and we're making parallels with what the Cardassians are going through to what the Cardassians were doing at the beginning of the show.

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I mean, talk about a mythology bearing through.

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Yeah.

45
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And so because you've had these characters and these arcs going for so long, everything is sort of meaningful.

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Everything has these sort of these whole levels of meaning and just the way the actors react and the way they behave and deliver their lines, there's so much there.

47
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Like there's so much to enjoy, so much subtext, all the stuff that 90 Star Trek never does.

48
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It just lets the actors tell us how they feel rather than giving them lines where the characters tell us how they feel.

49
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It's worth remembering as well.

50
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The cast were all exhausted at this point.

51
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They've been doing this, you know, gruelling show of 16 hours a day for 7 years.

52
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They were ready to stop.

53
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They could have just been phoning it in at this point.

54
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And I think they're doing their best work.

55
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Yeah, it's really, really properly good, I think.

56
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Then we have a 2nd plot, which I described last night to you on the chat.

57
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It's just the Klingons are on their same old bullshit again.

58
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But there's no way this is...

59
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There is definite movement and it's bring, it's basically Remor, who is essentially leaving Star Trek at this point.

60
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He's going to have a little flirtation with Voyager, but that won't last long.

61
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We've discovered that elsewhere.

62
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But he's basically bringing that plot to a conclusion, I think, that he's been running ever since the sort of mid-seasons of TNG.

63
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Yeah.

64
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Well, in fact, there are some, I think, deliberate parallels between this and reunion, which we did a few weeks ago.

65
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But I also think, though, you know, we're now at the point where wharf's been discommended twice and reaccepted back into the fold twice.

66
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And there's a real kind of sense of sameness here.

67
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You've got, you know, you've got Hartzler and you've got Michael Dawn and all of that's fun.

68
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There's a great scene with Michael Dawn and Nicole, which is really great too.

69
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But I couldn't help thinking that this felt a little bit black stuff we've seen a lot before.

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I thought this was a lot worthier than that.

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I like what it says about Cisco that he tells Worf effectively to go, kill Gowron, because that's taken us into new territory we've not been to with our Star Trek captain before.

72
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I love the scene with Ezra.

73
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I think it's the best scene as we get in the whole season where she systematically tears down the Klingon Empire in a few sentences and shows war for actually this can't go on anymore.

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And you've just got 3 hugely charismatic characters in Worf, Martoc, and Gowron. which just make all of those scenes sing.

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So I, as in no way bad material.

76
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No, no, no, no, no.

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But it is kind of the sort of thing we've seen before quite a lot.

78
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What pays it off.

79
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I think is the end where Garon is kills.

80
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And let's not forget that Robert O'Reilly, when you found out that the 2 actresses playing Lurser and Betor got Generations the movie.

81
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Well, they got the script for that and he was like, oh, you're doing a movie, are you?

82
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Well, it's been nice knowing you in the Star Trek franchise because the 2nd you do a movie.

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You're dead.

84
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And they go, no, no, no.

85
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Then they picked up the script and it's like, oh, bugger it.

86
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He's obviously done, you know, lots and lots of seasons since then.

87
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I just think what makes that work is killing off Garon, who's, you know, has been around since reunion, which is a long time.

88
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This is a legacy character and he's murdered in, I know you're going to mock the scene, but I love that scene.

89
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I love it when he's sort of push through the glass in slow motion and he is doing the usual Klingon ship, but it feels like that whole thing is coming to an end.

90
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And I think it deserves that because we've been doing this a long time.

91
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And it's book ended by the same scene in a sense that we have in reunion, isn't it?

92
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Where Worf kills either Duras or Gauron, and someone new exceeds to, you know, the chancellorship.

93
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I think there are also parallels here too, because in both of those plots that we've described, the main character is encouraged to act in order to sweep away something that's old and not functioning.

94
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And the way that they do that is by killing someone.

95
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So DeMar kills Rasot and Worf kills Gauron.

96
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And they're both encouraged to do that by a conversation that they have with a female regular.

97
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So, um, Asri, as we've just said, but there's an incredible scene, which we'll talk about, where Kira confronts demand in what is a really, really interesting scene emotionally, I think.

98
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And she encourages him, I think.

99
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And I think the episode is very clear about that, or at least the actor's performance is, that it's what she had said before, that encourages Damar to kill Rousot when he finally decides to do that.

100
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And I just think all of that stuff is really good.

101
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So this is one where the A and B plot are doing the same thing, they're clearing things away for a new group of people to kind of take over, take control of the various races.

102
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And it struck me you said this before.

103
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I think that ROM taking over as Nagus in a couple of episodes time is making fun of that.

104
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Don't you think?

105
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Like, you know, with DeMar.

106
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I mean, we know DeMar doesn't make it because he's killed in what you leave behind.

107
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But the idea is that it will be a better Cardassian with him in charge, with Martok in charge of the Klingon Empire and with Rom in charge of Rengenar.

108
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All of these sort of fusty old states that you're talking about there.

109
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That's all cleared and there's a new direction for all of them.

110
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And who knows what that's going to be, but that's DS9 basically saying, we're leaving it there, make your own judgement.

111
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Yeah, yeah, I think that's really good.

112
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But it looks like the future's bright in all of those cases.

113
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Well, maybe not Cardassia, 1000000 people are killed in the last episode.

114
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Yeah that's true.

115
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But that parallel again is where Bajor was in emissary.

116
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So, yeah, exactly.

117
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There's a lot of sort of circular movement in DS9 that really pays off.

118
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Yeah.

119
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And and unlike the changing face of evil, where everyone's plot was kind of inched along a beard, here it is just those 2 plots, and we have a sort of C plot, much sort of thinner plot, which leads into next week's episode, which section 31 and so on.

120
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So you can't have these last 10 episodes without one plot at least, just being the sort of A to B. Yeah, we're just going to inch it along, like you say.

121
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But within that, I do like the sheer sort of obsessed with trying to figure it out because he cares about Odo.

122
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I do like O'Brien being his friend coming in and, you know, feeding him and offering him support.

123
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We're not going to get to see that.

124
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We won't have the opportunity to say that in a few weeks time. all going to be over.

125
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And so I think that stuff is great.

126
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And they, and I know.

127
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But we get an episode where they just properly concentrate on that in like next week's episode.

128
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Play their love for each other.

129
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I thought what's going on there.

130
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Wait till we get to that one.

131
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But I like how that ends as well with, you know, we're going to lure them in.

132
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We're gonna lure section 31 to the station.

133
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So it does offer some excitement for the future as well.

134
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It's run more fire on all cylinders, I think.

135
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I think the dialogue is very strong.

136
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I think the acting is amazing.

137
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Yeah, yeah.

138
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And even the direction is pretty good for 90s track in this one too.

139
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Well, we should probably watch it, you know.

140
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I think we should.

141
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All right.

142
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I will count us in.

143
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Five, 4, 32, one and we're off.

144
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Oh, so this is exciting, isn't it?

145
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So it's an exciting game. ship, a Geminar ship, it's going to suddenly explode, and then it freezes and goes backwards.

146
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That's amazing.

147
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Unfortunately, when they freeze it, you can see sort of the cartoon nature of it, but never mind.

148
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I think it's really good.

149
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So I really, I mean, I just think these guys are great.

150
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I'm not so sure about Rasot.

151
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Rosat will be back, I think, in Enterprise as a Klingon.

152
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And he was in night terrors.

153
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He was the only survivor of that ship in Knights era.

154
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So he's had some Star Trek before.

155
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As a symbol of the old order, though, he works beautifully in the story, you know.

156
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Yeah, and he's a proper fascist.

157
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I mean, the thing about the about the Cardassians is they're kind of fascist.

158
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They've got that incredible monumental architecture and all of that sort of thing.

159
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Their respect for law and order, which Wayoon talks about in his scene, which we'll talk about.

160
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I think is a really interesting scene.

161
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Your opinion, no 1st, I think, was not solicited.

162
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Yeah, yeah, yeah He's so fucking arrogant though, isn't he?

163
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They're like, they're telling exactly what he should do, and he's breaking every one of the rules.

164
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Yeah, yeah.

165
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And because she is a Bajoran.

166
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He just can't bear that a Bajoran is telling him what to do.

167
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Yeah, and every accusation there is kind of an admission, isn't it?

168
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Like everything that he says is really what he feels.

169
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I do like Damas saying I'm going to give him my support.

170
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I thought that was pretty great.

171
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And it's basically the whole point at this point, isn't it?

172
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Is Demar realising no, in order for us to step forward.

173
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I can't give him support.

174
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I need to support these people.

175
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They're trying to help us build a new future.

176
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But that's not something you can come to very quickly, you know, changing your life.

177
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And I think the way he comes to it is so great.

178
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And so I think this is really good too.

179
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And watching it, so watching it for the 2nd time, after remembering that Kira knows that he's much sicker than he's letting on is really great because she's obviously trying not to give anything away, but she is telling the audience, I think.

180
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I think we can tell from her performance that she knows.

181
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Look at that shot. the sort of subtext we don't normally get.

182
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Normally there's stuff.

183
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Look at how she looks as he wants to spell out in dialogue, isn't it?

184
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Yes, exactly.

185
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And it will be spelled out.

186
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Look at him.

187
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He looks ghastly.

188
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He looks much ghastlier at the end.

189
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I think he looks worse.

190
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I think the clever thing is to have the clothing deteriorate and distressed because it's, of course, part of him.

191
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And look at Andrew Robinson's reaction when he sees him.

192
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Like, it's so perfect.

193
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It's so, he's so shocked without being kind of ridiculous without being camp comedy Andrew Robinson.

194
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Odo, even when he's deteriorating, he still gets in an insult.

195
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How like you to come sneaking in here.

196
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Gary.

197
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Yeah.

198
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But I think, like, I really, really like how this scene ends.

199
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Partly because too, like here, the interplay between these two, they're finishing each other's sentences.

200
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You know, he knows what question.

201
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Garak wants to ask, you know, we're getting some much needed, you know, exposition here about his performance and stuff like that, about his his deterioration, you know.

202
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Yeah, yeah, it's so good.

203
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It's so good And it's it's, remember, this is a relationship that has been established.

204
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Remember that 2 parter in series 3 and then we saw them hanging out together in series 4 so there is a relationship here.

205
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They're both sort of outcasts from their own people, aren't they?

206
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that have found themselves on Deep Space 9 and developed a weird sort of a respect for each other.

207
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I wouldn't say friendship, but no.

208
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Well, there's a moment that I just read as as Garak's respect for Odo.

209
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And it's coming.

210
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It's coming.

211
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It's this reaction where he says, he says something about, you know, like if I, if I don't want the woman I love, have, have, I don't want to accept pity from her, do you think I'm going to, you know, like I want to accept it from you, which is really good.

212
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And this, like, I love his line too.

213
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Look at him.

214
00:15:50.580 --> 00:16:01.259
He's kind of trying to judge whether he should say something and then he does and then he's interrupted, but he's not, he doesn't feel bad about being interrupted.

215
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:06.059
Like, I think this, where he's, he looks at him and smiles.

216
00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:10.799
And I think that that's showing respect for what Odo's like as a person.

217
00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:12.179
This is what Odo's like.

218
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:17.460
That kind of orneriness is what I like in him and, you know, what I appreciate about a person.

219
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:18.779
I think it's so well done.

220
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:32.039
Well, it's astonishing with Garak, is they've taken this character that it used to turn up to all once or twice a season and just blow our socks off because he was so conniving and manipulative and murderous and all those things that Star Trek characters don't do.

221
00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:37.139
And from the start of series 6, he's in probably half the season in 6 and seven.

222
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:52.379
They've made him almost a, they've made that character that doesn't conform to a Star Trek character's role, a regular in a way where we really like him, but he never loses all of those things that we love about him.

223
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:58.139
Yeah, I think they, do they make him a regular in, like, purgatory and Inferno?

224
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:03.600
It starts when he goes on to them to find at the end when they leave the station in call to arms.

225
00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:05.160
It's sort of from that point on.

226
00:17:05.220 --> 00:17:18.059
But I mean, there is, he is one of the regulars and they do show respect to him, you know, Martoc and all sorts of people say positive things about him, you know, when he's freaking out over, you know, being trapped in a confined space.

227
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:23.099
Yeah, in the same breath, you know, you still have episodes like in the Pale Moonlight, where it just stops the most.

228
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.079
I'll be along to say hello.

229
00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:28.440
And you know that guy's dead.

230
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

231
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:35.640
Yeah, he just killed that asshole and then that pretty, the pretty Romulan.

232
00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:45.420
Well, I've said this a 1000000 times, but what's happened with DS9 is they spend enough time doing sort of quieter episodes getting us to know those characters in the early seasons.

233
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:50.039
So when they're doing this crazy politicking in the last couple of seasons.

234
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:54.599
The characters are just like they're like perpetuating the stories themselves.

235
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.460
They're so strong at this point.

236
00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:01.019
I mean, it's also the choice to represent each political group by one character.

237
00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.740
And so character, stuff, and politics stuff are the same.

238
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.559
Just so precisely cast as well.

239
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:09.779
So good.

240
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.180
So oh, here we go.

241
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.000
Lots of Klingon ships all around, Deep Space 9.

242
00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:16.259
Way the warrior all over again.

243
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:20.579
Yeah, it's probably it's probably taken from where the warrior had shock.

244
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:33.839
I think it's worth remembering, again, the twist that Odo got the disease when he was on earth in series 4, that sort of retro rewriting of stuff we've already seen.

245
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:35.880
Massive strength of DS9.

246
00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:36.720
Yeah.

247
00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:37.619
Yeah.

248
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.519
It's the same thing that you end up seeing in Battlestar Galactica, isn't it?

249
00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:45.359
Where they look back and go, ooh, I think it must have happened here.

250
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:50.460
You know, like as if they're watching the show the way that we're watching it as well as writing it.

251
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:51.359
I think it's really good.

252
00:18:51.420 --> 00:19:12.059
Like you get an insight into the writer's room in the documentary when they when they redo the rise room for the potential 1st episode of season 8 and you can see that even all those years later, they love being together and just banding around ideas and character development and you can see how a lot of this sort of bore through back in the day.

253
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:27.119
So this scene is a little bit, I guess it's a scene where the 2 of them have conflict and he's tired and obsessed, but there's a lot of exposition kind of happening here to set up next week, isn't it?

254
00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:28.740
Is section 31?

255
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:35.519
The sort of the biggest gift DS 9 gave to future iterations of Star Trek.

256
00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:39.960
Well, I mean, they use it in enterprise, don't they?

257
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:41.579
and then they use it in discovery.

258
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.460
What, now it's going to be a something?

259
00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:45.119
Yeah, yeah.

260
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:45.720
Yeah, yeah.

261
00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:48.599
And then they're then they're doing a spinoff with Michelle Yeoh.

262
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:55.500
I suppose it's that and it's the Dominion as well because of how much it impacted series 3 of Picard.

263
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:57.000
You know, changed things.

264
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:58.440
Yeah, yeah.

265
00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:07.380
I, like this, this plot, this very plot of section 31 infecting Odo, you know, you know, that's a catalyst for that, isn't it?

266
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:08.220
Exactly right.

267
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:08.940
Yeah, yeah.

268
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:09.480
Yeah.

269
00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:11.640
Amanda Plummer's waiting in the wings right now.

270
00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:13.740
Exactly, she's.

271
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:14.880
She is.

272
00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:16.859
Here we go.

273
00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:17.940
No, come on.

274
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.240
Don't sigh when Robert O'Reilly's on the screen.

275
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:22.859
He is really funny.

276
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:24.299
He's terrific here.

277
00:20:25.019 --> 00:20:26.940
It's the eyes.

278
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:27.960
It's all in the eyes.

279
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:29.460
Yeah the eyes are all there.

280
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:31.619
But also he does a good job with the teeth.

281
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:37.920
I wonder why Klingons always have like perfectly white, lower teeth and horribly yellow front teeth.

282
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.380
Do you know, half no tears?

283
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.500
It's moving slowly, but the camera hasn't stopped moving in this episode.

284
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:44.579
Yeah, yeah.

285
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:49.740
It's constantly moving. should have been an easy victory.

286
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.160
Instead, he's had it as a shameful defeat.

287
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.500
I love him.

288
00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:57.839
No, he's great.

289
00:20:57.900 --> 00:20:58.680
He is great.

290
00:20:58.740 --> 00:20:59.400
He is great.

291
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:05.279
No, because then Cisco goes, he fought longer and harder than I ever would have done.

292
00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:10.079
Have you heard, you know, how many casualties there were and then Garon just goes as an aside?

293
00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:11.819
He's expected to survive.

294
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.140
Yeah, that's pretty funny. is pretty great.

295
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.900
It's all in the performances, I swear.

296
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:19.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

297
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:19.980
Yeah.

298
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:21.839
He is he's probably funny as well.

299
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.359
And I feel like his out now. in the eyes.

300
00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:28.200
They've been chewing up and spitting out this dialogue for so many years.

301
00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:30.119
It's just effortless.

302
00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:37.140
I mean, later on, I've seen start Swift Martok just going, challenge, Gowran, in the middle of a war.

303
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:41.880
I love it.

304
00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:42.960
You know what I mean?

305
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:47.099
I like big performances and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

306
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:53.759
Yeah, but I think, like, I think...

307
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:59.220
Martok's popular with the troops, I shan't relieve him of command yet.

308
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.740
And then pulls out the eyes again.

309
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:03.299
Yeah, yeah.

310
00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:03.779
Yeah.

311
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.819
Okay, meanwhile, on Cardassia.

312
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:10.500
Now, these scenes used to be fun, right?

313
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:15.059
And I think part of what's really interesting here and part of what's deliberate is that they're not fun anymore.

314
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:25.079
And the one character that we identify with in this scene is Wayoon, even though Wayoon's a terrible person, he's on the back foot, they're both threatening him.

315
00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:26.400
They're both dismissing him.

316
00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:28.859
She talks openly about killing him.

317
00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:32.220
And in fact, that's how she ends the scene with a threat to kill him.

318
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:36.779
It's kind of like keep me informed of when the cloning facilities come back online.

319
00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:43.019
Let me know because then I'm going to have you killed and replaced with a much better way in.

320
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:50.279
She underplays all of her dialogue, and yet there is like explicit threat in everything that she says.

321
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:51.420
Yeah, well that's really fun.

322
00:22:51.480 --> 00:23:07.019
And then I think the, the Breener introduced here and the way, the way that the, the way the Breener introduced at the end of series 7 to kind of up the stakes and stuff and to motivate all sorts of stuff. is they don't want characters and actors.

323
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:08.519
They don't need any more characters.

324
00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:09.900
They don't want to bring anymore.

325
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:11.279
You won't pay anyone, no.

326
00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:11.640
No.

327
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:22.500
So they just get some asshole in a suit and and then have them deliver dialogue that all of the other characters in the scene can understand, but we can't so they don't even have to write the dialogue.

328
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:24.720
But that alienates us from this scene.

329
00:23:24.779 --> 00:23:39.240
So whereas those scenes were like camp comedy stuff where you had sort of, you know, drunk Damar and and him being needled by, you know, it's kind of like he's lost his playmate a bit now that Damar's grown up and gone off to do, you know, terrorism and stuff.

330
00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:40.920
That's just, you're all right.

331
00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:42.299
There's an uncertainty to all of it.

332
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.279
I just I love her tactics as well.

333
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:47.160
When she goes, put a Kardashian on every facility.

334
00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:54.059
So but, you know, so they know that if they're going to turn the tire, they're going to have to murder a lot of their own people in order to do it.

335
00:23:54.119 --> 00:24:05.160
And of course, this is obviously building up the big revelation later on that they have actually found Damar's wife and son and killed him.

336
00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:08.339
This is her giving orders that that that should happen.

337
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.119
And all the stuff about descent will not be tolerated.

338
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:23.279
All of that sort of stuff, all of that Cardassian-like behaviour, which then causes demar to reflect on what he's been involved in for his whole career.

339
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:24.599
Super interesting, I think.

340
00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:29.400
Well, in the Kardashians in the situation that the Bajorans were in at the start of the series.

341
00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:33.299
It's the most interesting creative decision they ever made with the show.

342
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:34.440
Yeah, agree.

343
00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:38.039
Yeah, how long before our cloning facilities are operational again?

344
00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:41.220
Well, I like the fact, sorry, he tries to make a joke with her.

345
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.519
She says your opinion was not solicited in a very threatening way.

346
00:24:44.579 --> 00:24:46.859
What she's actually saying is, you're not a fan of it.

347
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:47.519
Shut the fuck up.

348
00:24:47.579 --> 00:24:50.400
We're not allowed to have fun with these people anymore.

349
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:52.019
No, that's right.

350
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.460
And so we end up feeling sympathy for Wayoon in that scene, which I think is pretty great.

351
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:59.640
Yeah, see, look, did you see that?

352
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:00.480
That scene started.

353
00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:02.279
It was high above them.

354
00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:05.940
Someone walked across a walkway and then the camera, there's no need to do that at all.

355
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.140
A very unconvincing and hastily erected walkway.

356
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.180
But even a papier mache.

357
00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:13.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

358
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:16.259
I mean, this is stock caves at one, isn't it?

359
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:22.740
Like, and they have used that set for kind of rebellion basis or special basis or whatever before.

360
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.240
The best set they have for the rebellion is when they go down into Mila's seller.

361
00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:32.640
It's the biggest seller you've ever seen in your life and they've got to clean it up in order to hide away there.

362
00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.740
She goes, you can stay here as long as you tide it up.

363
00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:39.900
And Garrett goes, The glamour of being a revolutionary.

364
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:44.220
Oh, fabulous.

365
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:45.059
Oh, yeah.

366
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.160
I did think this was maybe a tactical era.

367
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:48.539
We'll take a five man team.

368
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:50.759
The 5 most important people to the rebellion.

369
00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:52.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's Star Trek.

370
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:54.180
It's clearly Star Trek.

371
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.279
That's what we do all the time in Star Trek.

372
00:25:56.339 --> 00:25:59.160
I would like just one person to say, is that a good idea?

373
00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:02.940
They probably would have done a Kursman trick.

374
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:03.960
Yeah.

375
00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:09.660
So I also like how Garak has promised not to tell Kira.

376
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:20.339
And of course, the 1st thing he does is go and tell Kira, and he doesn't do it out of from Alice or anything like that, you know, he's doing it because it's important for her to know, given that she's just assigned him a job.

377
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:25.440
You know, she needs to know that he's sick and that it could threaten his life to do it.

378
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:34.319
I get it because I understand both Odo and Kira and how much respect they have for each other and why she would respect his wishes in this.

379
00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:34.920
I love it.

380
00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:38.400
But it frustrates me because I just wish people would talk more often, you know?

381
00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:40.079
But the other thing too.

382
00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:44.279
The other thing too is that Garak is shocked by this.

383
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:45.599
Don't you think?

384
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:47.099
Like, look how he's playing it.

385
00:26:47.160 --> 00:27:03.000
He's genuinely shocked that she knows and she isn't saying anything and she's letting him kind of sacrifice his life kind of allow his illness to progress because she respects his decision. probably let him do it to the bitter end, wouldn't she?

386
00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:05.339
And do you think that anything else?

387
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:10.619
And he just goes, no, like he's really genuinely shocked. so well played.

388
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.559
And that's the end of that act, isn't it?

389
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:20.640
Where she says, no, I know, and I'm going to let him continue to harm himself to make himself sicker and sicker.

390
00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:22.019
Give him one shred of dignity.

391
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:22.859
Shred of dignity.

392
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:23.880
It's good. isn't it?

393
00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:27.119
Okay, so here is...

394
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:29.160
Marfox in a terrible state.

395
00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:31.380
Those pyjamas are awful, aren't they?

396
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:32.759
Oh, good.

397
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:34.079
Yeah, never mind.

398
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:36.839
I feel like they don't have the whole set of Sick Bay there.

399
00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:38.819
It looks like a tiny corner set.

400
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:39.960
I think you're right.

401
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:45.119
I think that's the corner where they all recover from their sex capades in looking for Palmark.

402
00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:48.299
I have a lot of issues with war sometimes on TNG.

403
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.240
I think he just works like gang buses on DS9 at this point.

404
00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:55.259
Yeah, he's really good. so relaxed into the role and they're writing for him so well.

405
00:27:55.799 --> 00:28:14.819
Do you think that this scene is an answer to the scene at the end of reunion where he's condemned for, yeah, where Picard gives him a dressing down for killing Duras and now we have, now we have Cisco basically telling him to go and deal with going.

406
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:15.420
Love it.

407
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.900
And I love the fact that it's all, it doesn't say, say it, does it?

408
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:19.980
It's all implied.

409
00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:25.019
He's risking the entire defence and he's got to stop.

410
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:32.519
And, and like, it's not initially hit, like, it's not Worf goes off and says, all right, I better kill Gauron.

411
00:28:32.579 --> 00:28:36.960
I mean, he goes off and tries to persuade Martoc to challenge Garon.

412
00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:37.920
What a web.

413
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:39.359
He's trying to get someone else to do it.

414
00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:43.200
But, you know, like he's a Starfleet officer and stuff.

415
00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:48.839
And it's that thing again, just before he kills Duras in reunion.

416
00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.420
He takes off in what's quite a shocking scene at the time.

417
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:58.740
He takes his communicator off and leaves it on the table in his quarters before taking the bat left off and going onto the Klingon sheer.

418
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:01.019
Well, I think raises the stakes for me.

419
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:15.420
What makes this more interesting than your usual sort of political dramas within the Klingon Empire is it's taking place during the Dominion War at a point where we've learned that only the Klingon ships are immune to the brain weapons.

420
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:16.619
So there are stakes to this.

421
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:21.660
And Garon sacrifice and all of that just because he wants to embarrass Martoc.

422
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:23.819
Yeah, all of that's good.

423
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:28.619
And I think I think, you know, as usual Avery's kind of terrifying in this scene.

424
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:31.740
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

425
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:32.400
Oh my god.

426
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.319
Hera's going to beat up Risson now.

427
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:42.480
The line she has when she goes, stop pushing me or I'll make you realise how many nerves you've got in that miserable body of yours.

428
00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:46.200
Yeah, because he says to her, oh, look, I have hit a nerve.

429
00:29:46.619 --> 00:29:51.059
And because he's so massive and she's tiny.

430
00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:52.680
The fact that she...

431
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:54.240
Yeah, fucking head, doesn't he?

432
00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:59.339
And I love her delivery as well.

433
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:01.680
Like she's kind of toying with him, isn't she?

434
00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:03.960
Like, she's refusing to bite.

435
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:05.700
She thinks he's funny.

436
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:11.700
He's on the back foot, even though he's making these accusations because she's just refusing to take them serious.

437
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:16.019
And then she literally just goes, oh, I'll have time for this and just goes to walk away from him.

438
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:16.500
Yeah, yeah.

439
00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:17.940
But then he touches her.

440
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.500
Yeah.

441
00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:20.160
Straight through.

442
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:23.519
It's a bit of a Star Trek fight, though, isn't it?

443
00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.460
Seeing Kira beat up anyone?

444
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:28.380
Yeah, it's been good.

445
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:31.920
Can we please just have a moment for an Augusta?

446
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:34.500
And just she's so good in this.

447
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:35.880
Oh, she is.

448
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:36.599
Yeah.

449
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:37.740
But there's more to come.

450
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:42.359
There's some really, really good choices that she makes later on, I think, that it's really something.

451
00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:44.940
I think she's great when she's aggressive.

452
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:46.980
I think she's great when she's gentle.

453
00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:50.339
When she's accuser to it, she's just everything she does.

454
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:56.700
So he's going to leave and I think just one of the best Andrew Robinson moments ever.

455
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:58.740
He's so funny.

456
00:30:58.799 --> 00:30:59.759
It's so funny.

457
00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:01.200
So he's going to go off.

458
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:03.839
He's going, oh, I'll get you later. blah, blah, blah.

459
00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:05.700
You'll have to do something long before that.

460
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.859
He does it from the darkness.

461
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.140
He doesn't walk out and say it.

462
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:14.759
So he's delivering the line and then he walks out with shadows on it.

463
00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:15.839
It's so funny.

464
00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:20.940
It's like, oh, I'm being a mysterious presence again. so ridiculous.

465
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.440
It's wonderful.

466
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:23.700
It's just perfectly him.

467
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.359
He's just sort of, yeah, you could barely see him.

468
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:28.619
Yeah, yep.

469
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:35.759
And he's like the smile and everything and she's encouraging like he's encouraging her to kill him, isn't isn't he?

470
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:40.380
I really thought when I 1st watched this, that she was going to be the one to kill him.

471
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.059
Yeah, so I was quite surprised by the end.

472
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.240
Oh, here we go.

473
00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:46.740
We're going to have JG Hertzler now.

474
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:47.579
Oh, yeah.

475
00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:48.180
Sure now.

476
00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:49.140
Klingon stuff.

477
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.819
It's treasonous.

478
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

479
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:59.099
I do like as well how much they mock the word due to an honour in this episode.

480
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:01.319
Like we've overused these terms so much now.

481
00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:07.799
There's a bit later where Edry goes, it's very honourable and the wharf goes, that's a better term, but it's a bit obvious.

482
00:32:07.859 --> 00:32:12.059
Well, I thought I laughed out loud at that because that's what I thought.

483
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:17.519
I thought, oh, this is sort of Star Trek dialogue by the numbers and they decide to hang a hat on it.

484
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:22.319
Because her original line, which is just perfect, Ezri is... it was sweet.

485
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:22.680
Yeah.

486
00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:24.599
It was very sweet of him to do that.

487
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.700
Worf looks like he's got a bad taste in that sweet. really cute.

488
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.319
Terribly cute.

489
00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:45.900
Oh, and we have established as well that Martoc was from a poor family in once more onto the breach because Cor wouldn't give him the time of day because he's from a very, you know, a royal family. house.

490
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:47.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

491
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:55.140
So Martok's sort of anxiety that nobody would take him seriously if he took control. the council.

492
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:57.839
Back on Chronos.

493
00:32:57.900 --> 00:33:02.819
Yeah, but like this is, for me, this is like the way you react to techno babble.

494
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:03.480
Do you know what I mean?

495
00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:05.819
It's just like, oh, you sound like a Romulan blah, blah, blah.

496
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:06.480
Yeah, okay, right.

497
00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.220
Um, Yeah.

498
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:08.819
Yeah.

499
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:09.720
I don't know.

500
00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:11.220
I just think it's great.

501
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.779
I do like Wharf playing that very differently.

502
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:22.559
Like the way that he reacts to being accused of being like a Romulan and the way he smiles in response is pretty good.

503
00:33:22.619 --> 00:33:24.299
You're not gonna bait me.

504
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:26.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right.

505
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:27.539
Exactly right.

506
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:34.200
But I do think that this is a sort of a sort of slightly stupid barrier to overcome.

507
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:35.099
Do you know what I mean?

508
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:42.299
It's like, suddenly Martok is like super honourable and won't do that and it's just like, oh, okay, like, whatever.

509
00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:46.380
I do like how it forces me. being in a position of having to make the action at the end.

510
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:47.400
I do too.

511
00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:49.259
Animal, it looks so cool fighting.

512
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.259
Yeah. in that tiny scent.

513
00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.539
We're in the runabout now.

514
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:55.980
Oh, here we go.

515
00:33:55.980 --> 00:34:01.440
It's not often I say the best scenes are in the runabout, but the best scenes are in the runabout in this episode.

516
00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:04.200
Yeah, this is really good this scene.

517
00:34:04.259 --> 00:34:11.880
And it's all in the way the 2 main characters in the scene performer, I think. is really good.

518
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:14.639
So we just get a little moment between them.

519
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:17.280
I'm not listening to your bullshit lies anymore.

520
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:18.960
I'm going to get Arachtagino.

521
00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:23.639
Yeah, yeah, but she won't call him on it like she absolutely won't call him on it.

522
00:34:23.699 --> 00:34:24.599
And then there's this.

523
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:30.900
And so she comes in, Casey Biggs has the thing in his hand.

524
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:32.280
He's just received terrible news.

525
00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:37.739
She asks and it's his son, his wife and son.

526
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.780
We get that mentioned.

527
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:46.199
And you know what's so interesting is earlier in the season, we saw him with another woman on his arm.

528
00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:50.940
He's been abusing his power, forgetting his family, and now they've paid the price.

529
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:57.300
And he, like, she's heartbroken for him.

530
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:03.239
She feels for him and, you know, she closes her eyes and now she's, am I going to say this?

531
00:35:03.300 --> 00:35:04.619
Am I going to say it?

532
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:05.940
Like we get that shot of her.

533
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.519
Am I going to say anything?

534
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:10.019
And she says it.

535
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:12.360
She says, yeah, what people give those orders?

536
00:35:12.420 --> 00:35:15.420
He gives too much of a line, doesn't she?

537
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:18.360
But look at that look that he walks up to her.

538
00:35:18.420 --> 00:35:20.639
He's kind of got tears in his eyes.

539
00:35:20.699 --> 00:35:23.039
She doesn't know how he's going to react.

540
00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:24.900
She thinks she's blown it.

541
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:29.699
You know, like, was this the time to make that point when the man's family is dead?

542
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:39.420
And then Andrew Robinson, like Garrett comes in and says, no, that was okay, but just the 2 of them, the way that Demar reacts to that line is so good.

543
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:52.380
And I think there's a moment later, which makes it clear that that is the confrontation that causes him to decide to kill Rasad. to point out for me. just a suspense in that moment.

544
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:53.099
His reaction.

545
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.679
And when he comes out, isn't it?

546
00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:58.260
And because she goes, I've blown this, I fuck this up.

547
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.780
He's not gonna, you know, because there's so much at stake.

548
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:02.760
But you need...

549
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:11.340
The entire backstory of D Space 9, the Joran Kardashian conflict, their relationship where they were in series 6 for all of that to land.

550
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:12.659
Yeah.

551
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:17.880
So it just goes to show this long form storytelling and character arcs.

552
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:19.320
Great reward.

553
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.940
Yeah, it gives the actors something to do, I think.

554
00:36:24.059 --> 00:36:32.280
That was a very deep space night shot there with everybody in the shot across the runabout in various positions, so the camera could just point in one direction and they're all there.

555
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.039
We've arrived at the space station, everybody.

556
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:40.559
The Cardassian shuttle looks like it was clipped from a previous episode as well.

557
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:42.000
This is amazing.

558
00:36:42.179 --> 00:37:06.420
So, so I, I think that where I've heard this scene before is on Star Trek the Next Generation, where Picard and is it, is it in reunion, or it's at the end of reunion, isn't it, where he says, Um, Duras is gone.

559
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:15.239
You're accepting this commendation for the sake of this empire, and there's something wrong with his empire, why are you doing this?

560
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:16.380
It's either...

561
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:17.519
Do anything about it in that one.

562
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:34.139
In redemption, you know, like, like, so we've had this point made to wharf before, that if he's discommended while everyone knows that it was Duras's father who did the kid and the thing with the Romulans or whatever, then this is a corrupt empire.

563
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:40.260
So this is stuff that we've been going over for 7 years now, essentially, with this character.

564
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:51.000
Once again, though, this rewards on a couple of levels, because we've been through a whole journey with Worf and Ezri to the point now where they can sit down as 2 mature adults.

565
00:37:51.599 --> 00:38:00.360
I don't have this conversation where she is brutally honest with him in her own gentle way, but basically say, I think the Klingon Empire deserves to die.

566
00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:04.860
And to say that to a Klingon who's totally invested in the Klingon Empire, that's a big deal.

567
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.980
And also she does it in sort of psychological terms as well.

568
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:18.179
She talks about symptoms and stuff, you know, like because she's a counsellor, she's a psychologist, and that's super interesting, and she is different from, we get a mention of Jadia.

569
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:25.440
She brings it down to a level that we understand because we know Worf is as vulnerable where she thinks he is because we've been with him all this time.

570
00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:31.980
And she says, if you're willing to accept this, what help is there for the rest of the empire, you're willing to accept this corruption.

571
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:33.179
I really like it.

572
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:34.380
I like the dialogue here.

573
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:38.159
Yeah, yeah. pointed.

574
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:40.260
I like how honest it is.

575
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:47.579
It is a well-written version of this scene, but it is a scene that Ron Moore has written before, I think.

576
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:53.280
And at the point of redemption, you didn't have the stakes you have here.

577
00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:55.559
No, no, no, no.

578
00:38:55.619 --> 00:38:55.920
I agree.

579
00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:56.400
I agree.

580
00:38:56.460 --> 00:39:00.659
But that's why I think that this is the 2nd best plot of the episode.

581
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.119
And you don't have the conclusion.

582
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:06.539
Redemption, it's just you have the scene and then they just let it keep going.

583
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.599
Whereas Wolf here just goes, all right, enough.

584
00:39:09.659 --> 00:39:12.119
We've done this bullshit for too long now.

585
00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:15.780
Let's get him out of the way and forge a new future.

586
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:16.559
Yeah.

587
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:18.179
Oh, here we go.

588
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:19.500
Is that Kardashian space station?

589
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:21.119
Look at that Kardashian station.

590
00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:22.019
It looks so good.

591
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:29.519
And you instantly know it's Kardassian that uses heaps of the diff, you know, the same design features that deep space 9 does.

592
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:34.679
It's not just, you know, shooting Deep Space 9 from a different angle and calling it Mpoc Nor.

593
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:36.659
Does we do a...

594
00:39:36.659 --> 00:39:42.059
And the camera comes in and it comes under the Gemadar ship to give it scale. to the Jadar ship as well.

595
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:47.519
But we also, we also park our little ship near the Jem'Hadar ship so that we know where we're going.

596
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:49.019
Like it tells the story there.

597
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:53.760
Here is our Nazi friend. from the killing guy.

598
00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:54.900
Does he only get this one scene?

599
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:56.820
He only gets this one seen.

600
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:01.079
I do like the way he knows who they are. good luck looking.

601
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:04.800
Yeah, yeah, he knows that it's Damar, which I think is really interesting.

602
00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:07.860
Because if the Jem'adar intelligence is pretty poor, though.

603
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:08.880
They don't know who these people are.

604
00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:10.260
Well, yeah, that's right.

605
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:14.820
I mean, fucking Demar's face was all over every screen at the end of the changing face of evil.

606
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:17.219
Yeah, the Cardassians all look the same.

607
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:22.139
I like the fact that it's your stock DS9 corridor as well, you know?

608
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:28.079
Yeah, well, they can just use that as a Kardashian. they, don't they?

609
00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:33.539
Well, like I said, it's a step up from Mpok Nor, I think, where we even use the same model.

610
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:35.159
But yes.

611
00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:36.599
But in a minute, right?

612
00:40:36.659 --> 00:40:37.679
The scene where they go in.

613
00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:39.360
It works on 2 levels for me.

614
00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:45.179
One is brilliant because you've got Kitty Swink there. camping it up as the female water and we don't get too many of that.

615
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:46.260
Let me try this too.

616
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:53.159
You think that Damar is about to take the handcuffs off her, don't you?

617
00:40:53.219 --> 00:40:58.440
Like, she stops there with his back, but then they drop off and she was never, do you know what I mean?

618
00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.639
She was never imprisoned.

619
00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:00.960
I thought that was super interesting.

620
00:41:01.019 --> 00:41:05.460
And then you get the extra thing where it's Odo, which I think is pretty great.

621
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:07.440
Here's Mrs. Shimmerman.

622
00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:08.699
Oh, wonderful.

623
00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:10.380
As the voice.

624
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:11.940
Why are you bringing her to me?

625
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:19.199
Well, then I love it when Salome Gens comes in as the female shapes did.

626
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:20.820
Obviously it's Odo in disguise.

627
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:21.360
Yeah, yeah.

628
00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:24.900
I see the new plasma rifles have been deployed.

629
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:27.900
No, she says one, please. my rifle.

630
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:29.760
Cheers.

631
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:31.380
Here she is.

632
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:36.719
And then like I said earlier, Garak still Garak, so he murders everybody on the bridge, you know?

633
00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:38.760
And nobody really bats an eyelid.

634
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:41.159
No, and I think that's kind of okay.

635
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:42.179
Like, I agree with him.

636
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:45.000
There's a moment, I'm not quite sure what they're doing exactly.

637
00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:48.960
So we, I think we know this is Odo, don't we?

638
00:41:49.019 --> 00:41:52.559
Because we saw the, like if we were paying attention, we know this is Odo.

639
00:41:52.619 --> 00:41:53.699
Otherwise, why is she here?

640
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:54.900
Why should she not?

641
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.900
Look, we know when she asks to see the weapon and then gives it to Garak.

642
00:41:58.019 --> 00:42:02.579
No, but that's just happened now, but I think we knew already when she comes in.

643
00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:12.239
I think he's trying to convince us because it shows scenes between them all sort of looking at each other like, what the hell is she doing here, you know?

644
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:13.380
Yeah, yeah.

645
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:15.179
But like I think that's great.

646
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:16.019
Go for it.

647
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:18.420
And but why is she reacting like that?

648
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:19.800
Do you know what I mean?

649
00:42:19.860 --> 00:42:25.199
No, no, because then we cut to Odo and Odo, we cut to Odo saying...

650
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:26.579
If you have floss life was terrible.

651
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:27.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

652
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:29.940
But I think, you know, like it's war, screw it. kill them.

653
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:34.860
But we are in a very different place to where we were in TNG, right?

654
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:35.760
Where this is accepted.

655
00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:36.239
Yeah yeah.

656
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:41.159
If Picard was here, imagine, you'd be like eulogising them all.

657
00:42:41.219 --> 00:42:42.360
Yeah, but I mean, that's the thing.

658
00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:43.260
We can't lock them up.

659
00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:45.780
And that makes them seem more desperate, obviously.

660
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.380
Like, and that's why that's being done there because they're in a very scary situation.

661
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.840
This twist is so great.

662
00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:57.780
The fact that they haven't fitted the weapon yet and they have to spin this out for another half an hour.

663
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.579
That's when we go to the ad break off.

664
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:02.820
You're asked to camp it up as the female voice.

665
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.199
This is Luaran.

666
00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:05.219
Go ahead.

667
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:22.500
It's really funny the way that all of the female aliens on 90s Star Trek look like just American ladies and various, like, they have sort of American lady hair, and this one's called Loaren, which seems like an American lady name.

668
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:29.159
I feel like she's been watching a bit of campy sci-fi, Kira, because she goes, at one point she goes, excellent.

669
00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:32.159
So good.

670
00:43:32.219 --> 00:43:33.780
She's terrifically good.

671
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:38.820
But the zoom in on her as we cut to the ad break is wonderful.

672
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:39.840
Yeah, yeah.

673
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:40.260
Yeah.

674
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.860
So, so, uh, yes.

675
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:56.699
So later on, they flood the ship with neurazine gas, and I wondered whether they were killing them all, because it is full of gemhadar, isn't it?

676
00:43:57.659 --> 00:43:59.699
Don't they kill them all?

677
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:01.139
I don't think we hear about them again.

678
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:11.219
No, because I, I obviously research Neurazine gas on memory alpha, and the doctor uses it to knock out the inhabitants of a Romulan ship.

679
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:12.659
Is there an entire article?

680
00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:13.800
I of the needle.

681
00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:15.840
It only gets mentioned twice.

682
00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:19.980
Neurosene gaskets mentioned in Voyager and here, and it knocks you out.

683
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:29.400
So they're not going to kill all of the Jemhadar here, but they're just going to render them unconscious until they get the, you know, ship to federation space.

684
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:31.079
There it was.

685
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:34.679
That end of scene with Kira going.

686
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:35.159
Yeah, yeah.

687
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:36.900
We're dead.

688
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:39.000
But I love that.

689
00:44:39.059 --> 00:44:40.619
I absolutely buy that.

690
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:42.599
I think it's a really, really good twist.

691
00:44:42.659 --> 00:44:45.599
And it makes the whole thing really tense.

692
00:44:45.659 --> 00:44:47.400
So they've got to kind of prevaricate.

693
00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:48.900
It's so weird, isn't it?

694
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:50.519
Because so little.

695
00:44:50.579 --> 00:44:53.699
There's just Kira from the regulars in that entire plot.

696
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.159
And yeah, it's the most riveting thing happening.

697
00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:57.420
Yeah.

698
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:01.739
Well, because all the other characters are super interesting and they're strong secondary characters.

699
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:02.639
Oh, I love this.

700
00:45:02.699 --> 00:45:04.619
Brian coming in, just going, oh, forget it.

701
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:05.519
You might have been a bastard.

702
00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:06.840
Don't worry about it, you know.

703
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:11.159
I'm a huge fan of characters just forgiving one another and not being dicks about it.

704
00:45:11.219 --> 00:45:16.380
It's just like, yeah, you know, you're in a mood and you're worried about Odo and...

705
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:19.920
I would be a fan of crab rolls if I wasn't allergic to crustaceans.

706
00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:23.280
I would not be a fan of crab rolls despite, yeah.

707
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:24.539
I can't even try them.

708
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:30.300
Well, crab is a lot of effort to go to to get a very small amount of meat, I think.

709
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:32.039
It's really not that great.

710
00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:42.719
We are discussing how to lure Sloan to the station so they can find a cure for the disease, which is nice because it does give us a chance to bring that character back who has been really successful.

711
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:51.059
And and the funny thing is that he does get mentioned in dialogue, but not in the subtitles of the version that I'm watching.

712
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:55.199
Um, he, his name doesn't appear, but he is mentioned by name.

713
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:58.079
They speculate that Sloane might come.

714
00:45:58.139 --> 00:46:05.219
And so this is an episode that kills Sloan that next week's episode, but they're wandering around in his dying mind or something.

715
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:09.840
I love the repeated joke they do that every time Sloan comes on the station.

716
00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:12.960
He's always sitting there watching Bashir sleeping in the dark.

717
00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:15.719
So in every episode that Sloan's in.

718
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:16.739
That's how he's introduced.

719
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.019
He's just sort of sitting there watching him.

720
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:20.699
He's like, ah, doctor, you're awake.

721
00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:23.159
Time for our mission.

722
00:46:23.219 --> 00:46:25.199
Oh, this is my.

723
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:27.059
I do love this scene Yeah.

724
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:28.500
Oh, Penion 5.

725
00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:33.719
So, so we've brought one of their tables.

726
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:38.820
We've got a Klingon table here with like some rusty light underneath.

727
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:42.719
Yeah, but it's like got rusty iron grill or whatever.

728
00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:45.059
No one else says anything.

729
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:52.800
There's some lady Klingons here, which is a nice change, but none of them say anything. 15 battles, cruises, well, barely scratched that defences, Nathan.

730
00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:58.619
Would it have been, would it have been interesting to try and motivate Martoc?

731
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:00.539
To kill him?

732
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:02.699
No, it's got to be wrong.

733
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:05.460
It's got to be because it's been Worf story.

734
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:06.119
Yeah, that's true.

735
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:07.559
Yeah, yeah.

736
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:13.679
I love the plan that even when he stabs Gower on, he still gets one last line out, doesn't he?

737
00:47:13.739 --> 00:47:15.059
You will not have this.

738
00:47:15.300 --> 00:47:17.820
And he can't quite say day.

739
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:18.480
He's sorry.

740
00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:20.579
He doesn't, it's a meaningless line.

741
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:25.440
It's kind of like I'm trying to get it, you know, some hilarious thing, but I don't manage it.

742
00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:27.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

743
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:31.199
No, but he can't get he never gets the line out because he's dying, which is kind of great.

744
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:33.719
So he doesn't even get one final zinger at the end of it.

745
00:47:33.780 --> 00:47:35.820
I don't think this is a terrible fight, though.

746
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:37.019
I know it's a small room.

747
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:37.920
I think it's well done.

748
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:38.760
It's the small room.

749
00:47:38.820 --> 00:47:41.519
I think it is, I think it's a good fight and I think...

750
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:43.739
I like the fact they're shooting through that glass quite a bit.

751
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:46.800
It just gives it, it looks visually a bit different.

752
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:47.579
Exactly.

753
00:47:47.639 --> 00:48:00.239
And, and, you know, like we've talked about how fist fights are a cheap way of getting action onto a Star Trek show, but throwing him through the thing and having, you know, like a stunt double and all of that sort of thing happening.

754
00:48:00.300 --> 00:48:02.579
Like that's a bit more exciting, I think.

755
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:16.500
And I think I remember as well, somehow, I must have seen a next week on Deep Space 9 trailer that included that scene of him being thrown through the glass because I remember that as being striking.

756
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:35.280
It's just worth remembering at this point as well, just how many regular semi-regulars they are juggling at the moment. how they're having to bring all these characters to a point where they can conclude their stories. whilst continuing to tell the Dominion War story this season as well.

757
00:48:35.340 --> 00:48:36.119
So it's interesting.

758
00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.039
Like, it's a lot of work to do.

759
00:48:38.099 --> 00:48:39.900
The meetings must have gone on forever.

760
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:42.420
It's really good.

761
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:46.380
So he takes his he takes his thing off again, like he did in reunion.

762
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:51.000
Now we're going to do the fight with the batlifts, just like we do...

763
00:48:51.059 --> 00:48:52.320
I do too.

764
00:48:52.380 --> 00:49:01.500
And remember the fight with Duras was interesting because it was like, oh my god, it's Star Trek the Next Generation, and they're solving their problem through violence.

765
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:03.719
Like, and something actually happens.

766
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:06.360
You know, like they don't come in and stop them.

767
00:49:06.420 --> 00:49:09.300
Like you're expecting them to come in and stop him.

768
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:13.559
And the fact they come in, the door opens and he just sort of lands the batlet in the guy's neck.

769
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:16.920
We've got no doubt at all that nobody's coming to stop this.

770
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:19.500
Yeah, he's been given permission. coming in to stop this.

771
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:21.119
Now we're going through the window.

772
00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:25.019
So he picks up the little knives. insane, Gower on his during this fight.

773
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:26.219
Yeah, yeah.

774
00:49:26.219 --> 00:49:27.000
Is he?

775
00:49:27.659 --> 00:49:29.219
There we go.

776
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:30.900
Three, two, one.

777
00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:32.940
Stunt double through the glass.

778
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.679
That is a fabulous shot.

779
00:49:34.739 --> 00:49:35.820
I love that.

780
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:36.599
It is pretty great.

781
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:38.039
We slow it down a bit.

782
00:49:38.099 --> 00:49:38.579
Yeah.

783
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:42.539
And then this, which is exactly how he kills Duras, isn't it?

784
00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:50.099
He raises the bat length above his head and just brings it down into girass's throat, but and girass is on the ground.

785
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:56.219
Um, but now wharf's in that same position, but he actually manages to kill Gareth Gareron from there.

786
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:58.079
I might be on this if you want.

787
00:49:58.139 --> 00:50:00.300
I actually think the music's great in this scene as well.

788
00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:05.219
There's like a mad drum beat going on that's giving it a lot of energy and a lot of pace.

789
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:15.659
Yeah, and this way back from series one from Heart of Glory, that thing, and you know, having Worf do it again to the man he's just killed.

790
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:16.860
I think is pretty great.

791
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:21.719
Yeah, I love this, how...

792
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:22.559
The cloak.

793
00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:25.980
It shows you how easily it can go from one person to another.

794
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:27.239
Walk goes, no, I don't want to do that.

795
00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:28.440
You know, you have a question.

796
00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:32.880
That sounds like a lot of work to me, you know?

797
00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:34.500
yeah that's right.

798
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:37.440
Look all the badges on it.

799
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:38.340
Jesus Christ.

800
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:51.480
So is the idea that this is okay because he does it not to gain power, but to, for the the sake of the, you know, reading the empire of corruption.

801
00:50:51.539 --> 00:50:52.860
And so the fact that he hands it on.

802
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:54.300
That's why he doesn't.

803
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:59.940
Although, I do like the fact that in what you leave behind. um, Wharf goes with him, doesn't he?

804
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.460
He says, I want an ambassador from the Federation.

805
00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:04.619
Come on, come and live on Chronos with me.

806
00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:06.420
Yeah, but that doesn't happen.

807
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:07.380
He turns up in the next film.

808
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:08.460
Yeah.

809
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:10.860
And then Picard and it does so.

810
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:14.760
What they call the Fengus Warriors or something?

811
00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:16.139
No, can't remember.

812
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:18.719
Confederus, the federus, yeah, yeah, yeah.

813
00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:19.500
Oh, I can't remember.

814
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:20.639
Oh, here we go.

815
00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:21.599
Back to the Dominionship.

816
00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:22.559
Yeah.

817
00:51:22.619 --> 00:51:25.139
Although one last word for that last storyline.

818
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:32.820
The bit where he goes, I am not the man to usher in this day, but there is one man here who I could just see you guys.

819
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:34.380
Oh, God.

820
00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:36.719
Talk normally.

821
00:51:36.780 --> 00:51:37.559
Oh, my God.

822
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:43.139
See, these episodes now is thinking about what your reaction is, certain dialogue.

823
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:48.000
If they'd been if they'd been long scenes delivered in very slow Klingon, I would have been there.

824
00:51:48.059 --> 00:51:49.860
How great titles.

825
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:58.320
They sat on this for out and now in the middle of a suspense scene where they got to get out of there, the virus hits him and they have to talk about it.

826
00:51:58.380 --> 00:52:04.619
Yeah, it's really good and he looks much worse here and also I like that they don't show us it happening.

827
00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:06.119
They don't do a cheesy thing.

828
00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:08.519
It happens like that between shots.

829
00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:10.199
We just cut and he looks like that.

830
00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:11.519
It's really great.

831
00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:18.599
This scene now where they're all pointing guns at each other. is like, what the hell is going to happen here?

832
00:52:18.659 --> 00:52:19.500
You know?

833
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:24.300
And it really feels like this whole rebellion is just over because there's just gums everywhere.

834
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:25.980
Yeah, yeah.

835
00:52:26.039 --> 00:52:26.820
Yeah.

836
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:31.860
I think if we're paying attention, we know how this is going to play out, though.

837
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.099
Garak, though, I'm still here, Brassut.

838
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:36.599
With a gun.

839
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:40.860
You goes, you're not going to shoot one of your own kind.

840
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.599
How little you understand me.

841
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:47.099
Andrew Robinson can do these one-liner brilliant.

842
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:48.000
So good.

843
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:48.900
So good.

844
00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:51.599
Yeah, you know, you are right.

845
00:52:51.659 --> 00:52:55.139
Actually, as a scene progresses, it is very clear how this is going to end.

846
00:52:55.199 --> 00:53:06.360
Yeah, yeah, but it is very good and they do sort of, and look at that close-up of Damar thinking because he's trying, like, he's reacting to how unpersuasive.

847
00:53:06.420 --> 00:53:07.980
He finds this speech.

848
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:08.639
Look at him.

849
00:53:08.699 --> 00:53:16.559
He's reacting to Rissant speech being unpersuasive, whereas once it would have been persuasive, and I think it is that moment.

850
00:53:16.619 --> 00:53:17.579
I think it's that moment.

851
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:23.400
Look at the psychotic zeal in Garak's eyes as well who's like, ah, what's going to happen here?

852
00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:25.739
You know, he's loving it.

853
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:29.159
It's also a little bit cheesy that, you know, he shoots.

854
00:53:29.219 --> 00:53:34.619
We don't know who someone falls to the ground and then we go, oh, it's the most disposable person in the side.

855
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:35.340
I do like the line though.

856
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.159
His Cardassian is dead and it's not coming back.

857
00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:40.199
I do like that. drawing a line under.

858
00:53:40.260 --> 00:53:41.219
Look at that.

859
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:44.460
Look at that look that he gives her and that she gives him.

860
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:50.340
Like, I think that that's him saying that's him acknowledging that she was right.

861
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:51.360
Don't you?

862
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:53.039
Like, I don't think I'm over...

863
00:53:53.099 --> 00:53:54.239
Why is that what they're saying?

864
00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:55.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

865
00:53:55.380 --> 00:53:56.940
I think that's absolutely what they're doing.

866
00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:06.420
And so, so she has persuaded him to kill Rasot, just as Ezri persuades, uh, wharf to kill Gauron.

867
00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:12.900
And on a completely another level, the fact that they have taken this ship means now that they do have immunities in a brain weapon.

868
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:15.300
So it does, you know, there's a reason for doing it.

869
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:17.340
It's not just an action piece for nothing.

870
00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:19.260
No, that's right.

871
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:22.920
Everything is very well kind of crafted, I think.

872
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:27.360
Oh, I think this is beautifully acted this ending where she comes over to come for him.

873
00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:28.320
I'm saying, isn't it?

874
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:29.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

875
00:54:29.219 --> 00:54:31.139
Yeah, and he doesn't.

876
00:54:31.139 --> 00:54:32.579
And he covers her, doesn't he?

877
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:34.260
He says Marie...

878
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:35.820
He says, don't, just be with me.

879
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:38.280
I think offset that to people before, you know?

880
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:41.400
Yeah, but that's it is.

881
00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:42.480
Don't pity me.

882
00:54:42.539 --> 00:54:43.559
Just sit here.

883
00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:45.780
And I also like her, she says, no, I knew.

884
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:47.760
Obviously, I knew. you know.

885
00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:54.360
And that's, you know, once he admits to it, she's willing to admit to it.

886
00:54:54.420 --> 00:55:00.420
But she's not going to make him admit to it, and that's how she shows respect and love for him.

887
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:01.260
I think it's really good.

888
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:09.059
And you know, you shouldn't be able to watch a scene where 2 people this close with that ghastly makeup is this touching, but it really is.

889
00:55:09.179 --> 00:55:12.840
Yeah, the makeup is kind of...

890
00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:15.000
We do, we just love Odo, though, don't we?

891
00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:16.019
Yeah, yeah.

892
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:19.980
Oh, look at, look at...

893
00:55:20.039 --> 00:55:21.480
That's beautiful.

894
00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:22.440
Gorgeous.

895
00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:23.280
She's so good.

896
00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:24.420
Jesus Christ, she's great.

897
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.900
Man, they're foreign on all cylinders at this point.

898
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:28.679
I think they are.

899
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:29.880
It's really good.

900
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:31.199
They really great.

901
00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:34.380
And there's only what, 3 more to go, isn't it?

902
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:35.760
Yep.

903
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:39.960
Extreme measures, dogs of war and what you leave behind. yeah.

904
00:55:40.019 --> 00:55:49.260
And yeah, within those three, there's enormous development. still happen where this close to the end there's still a lot to do.

905
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:52.199
What will happen with Dukat and win?

906
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:53.639
Oh, yeah, who can say?

907
00:55:53.699 --> 00:55:57.000
the only point where no answer the last 10 very exciting.

908
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.440
Then I'll stop you.

909
00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:04.139
Are you still here?

910
00:56:05.219 --> 00:56:07.019
Emissary?

911
00:56:07.019 --> 00:56:08.039
The book?

912
00:56:09.300 --> 00:56:11.519
It's so great.

913
00:56:11.579 --> 00:56:27.119
Although, and it is worth noting, though, that whilst some elements of that could be considered soapy, that's played much more like a drama, this episode, compared to the changing face of evil, that's far more like a drama.

914
00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:27.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

915
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:29.639
This is properly serious, I think.

916
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.920
And both, you know, both the A and the B plot are probably serious.

917
00:56:34.980 --> 00:56:44.340
I mean, the C plot is a little bit disposable, but it's so that we don't have to have those scenes in next week's episode and so that Miles and Julian have something to do in this week's episode, I guess.

918
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:48.960
Well, then I'm going to ask you, so we've covered Imogen the Sand, shadows and symbols.

919
00:56:49.019 --> 00:56:52.199
Take me out to the hola suite, but I've beaten that a bang.

920
00:56:52.260 --> 00:56:54.360
Treachery faith from the great river.

921
00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:58.619
Change your face of evil, now tacking into the wind.

922
00:56:58.679 --> 00:57:01.679
I know you didn't like siege of AR 558 so much.

923
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:02.639
No.

924
00:57:02.699 --> 00:57:04.920
Is DS9 going out on a high?

925
00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:08.280
Oh yeah, I think this is a very, very good episode.

926
00:57:08.340 --> 00:57:15.480
And I also think they're managing a lot of things and doing quite a good job of it.

927
00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:25.380
I think they've set themselves a high bar, but they've really properly worked. to make sure that everything kind of fits together and that everyone gets a decent payoff.

928
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:30.539
And like I didn't really enjoy the B plot of this episode all that much.

929
00:57:30.659 --> 00:57:34.260
But I think it is the right way to go out.

930
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:39.300
You know, it's going out the way that you came in rounding that off.

931
00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:44.159
And we don't need Worf to do any particular character things for the rest of the show.

932
00:57:44.219 --> 00:57:52.320
His arc is kind of finished, and obviously he's got more to do in the next 3 episodes, but that's a good way of rounding it off.

933
00:57:52.380 --> 00:57:54.179
So we've sorted wharf.

934
00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:56.699
And I think we've kind of sorted Damara.

935
00:57:56.760 --> 00:57:59.099
I know that he's in the final episode as well.

936
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:02.219
But like we've done something proper with Damar.

937
00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:03.840
All of that stuff is really good.

938
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:19.139
And I'm not sorry, the way that other people are, that we stopped to do, take me out to the hola suite and better being better bang during this season, that it wasn't all this, that even though Star Trek decided we're going to do this.

939
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:22.079
We're going to do this war thing.

940
00:58:22.139 --> 00:58:24.300
We still stop to have fun.

941
00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:34.559
And I think, you know, out of that list of season 7 episodes that we've done, I still think that Take Me Out to the Holo Suite is my favourite as a piece of TV.

942
00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:36.300
I just think it's terrific.

943
00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:39.420
I think they time those episodes well.

944
00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:50.460
They do take me out to the hollow suite just after that big 3 part end of series 6, beginning of series 7, and then the bada bing, bada bang, just before the 10 episode.

945
00:58:50.460 --> 00:58:53.820
And end it with a song, which is called the best is yet to come.

946
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:55.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

947
00:58:55.380 --> 00:59:01.920
And I was just reading this week, actually, a bit of trivia about that where Ira Bear went, have you heard Avery Brooks's singing voice?

948
00:59:01.980 --> 00:59:04.619
Why did I put Captain Cisco singing a song?

949
00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:09.659
He goes, I knew I had to do it at some point in the series and this was my last shot.

950
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:10.679
So we're doing it.

951
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:13.619
Oh, he's so good.

952
00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:16.019
Sometimes being indulgent is absolutely okay.

953
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:16.860
Yeah.

954
00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:17.880
Yeah, I agree.

955
00:59:17.940 --> 00:59:21.960
But yeah, there's there's really not too much to complain about that.

956
00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:26.519
I don't think there's a better episode after this, though.

957
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:30.900
I feel like Extreme Measures is probably the weakest of the last 10.

958
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:43.800
The Dogs of War is great, but it's got the Ferengi plot and the Cardassian plot and Tony, they're fighting each other quite a bit because it's very funny and very dramatic at the same time.

959
00:59:43.860 --> 00:59:51.960
What you leave behind, I think, is a glorious ending, but there's just a few block conclusions that don't entirely land as well as they should.

960
00:59:52.019 --> 00:59:57.900
But as a whole, I think season 7 of DS9 is one of the best years of Star Trek.

961
00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:01.440
It's certainly one of the most substantial years of Star Trek.

962
01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:18.780
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to learn what we're doing next time in episode 101 and the choice is mine.

963
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:20.880
Do you want to ask me what we're doing?

964
01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:23.039
I would like to ask you what we're doing.

965
01:00:23.099 --> 01:00:23.400
Yes.

966
01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:26.760
We are doing Star Trek from the 1960s.

967
01:00:26.820 --> 01:00:29.820
So that means the original series.

968
01:00:29.820 --> 01:00:32.940
Is the animated series the 60s?

969
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:33.239
Probably not.

970
01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:39.059
That's from the 70s, but it is the 70s, yeah, because we finish in 1969.

971
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:40.619
It's the long 60s.

972
01:00:40.739 --> 01:00:42.000
So we'll do.

973
01:00:42.059 --> 01:00:44.579
You should put in strange new Wales and do that whole period.

974
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:45.780
You know, that's...

975
01:00:45.780 --> 01:00:49.980
I don't want to, I don't want to use up straight to you worlds too early.

976
01:00:49.980 --> 01:00:52.320
So good, good.

977
01:00:52.380 --> 01:00:53.880
I know, I know, I know it's so great.

978
01:00:53.940 --> 01:00:56.340
We could do discovery if we're doing the period as well.

979
01:00:56.400 --> 01:00:58.679
We haven't done that for a while.

980
01:00:58.739 --> 01:01:00.659
We've done a fair bit of 90s trek.

981
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:02.639
So let's see what we get.

982
01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:06.059
The Galileo 7.

983
01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:08.460
We cover this episode in episode 84.

984
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:09.780
It's wonderful.

985
01:01:09.780 --> 01:01:11.159
Monkey Men.

986
01:01:11.219 --> 01:01:13.139
The cage.

987
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:16.019
So that's the pilot, the 1st pilot.

988
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:17.280
The original pilot.

989
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:23.219
Ooh, that could be interesting. should do a bit of digging into the changes that were made and why.

990
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:24.360
Yeah.

991
01:01:24.420 --> 01:01:25.139
What do you think?

992
01:01:25.199 --> 01:01:27.000
It's the 1st one.

993
01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:31.860
It is like the one we did uh for Discovery.

994
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:33.599
I can't remember memory serves.

995
01:01:33.659 --> 01:01:34.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

996
01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:35.639
Memory, sir.

997
01:01:35.699 --> 01:01:37.739
It is very worthy and a bit.

998
01:01:37.739 --> 01:01:38.460
It is very worthy.

999
01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:39.119
And you know what?

1000
01:01:39.179 --> 01:01:41.219
a lot of fun with TOS.

1001
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:42.179
Yeah.

1002
01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:42.659
All right.

1003
01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:47.039
Let's see if we can manage that Bem, episode 74.

1004
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.039
Oh, that was a classic.

1005
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:52.139
Obsession.

1006
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:54.179
What's that?

1007
01:01:54.300 --> 01:01:56.039
I have no idea.

1008
01:01:56.099 --> 01:01:58.920
I think I've even heard of an episode called Obsession.

1009
01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:01.800
That's not a good sign.

1010
01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:02.519
Hang on.

1011
01:02:02.579 --> 01:02:03.659
I'll have a look.

1012
01:02:04.139 --> 01:02:09.719
Kirk becomes convinced that a deadly gaseous cloud is an intelligent being.

1013
01:02:09.780 --> 01:02:11.699
That sounds like every 2 is episode.

1014
01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:18.480
The same that killed 200 crew members aboard the USS Farragut on which Kirk served 11 years earlier.

1015
01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:20.880
3.5 stars out of four.

1016
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:22.440
Oh, okay.

1017
01:02:22.500 --> 01:02:25.019
It'll be terrible then if Jeremy gives it 3.5 .

1018
01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:27.480
Or just sort of try it.

1019
01:02:27.539 --> 01:02:28.980
Very serious, you know?

1020
01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:35.099
He says the plot is tight, the use of characters is effective and the punchy finale is exciting.

1021
01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:38.519
Yeah, I think that, no, I'm not convinced.

1022
01:02:38.579 --> 01:02:39.599
That's going to be the case.

1023
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:42.360
It does actually sell it to me more, I think.

1024
01:02:42.420 --> 01:02:43.860
I think we should do it.

1025
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:45.059
It's kind of weird.

1026
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:51.119
I mean, when it came up, it was literally, I have never heard of a Star Trek episode, God, Obsession.

1027
01:02:51.179 --> 01:02:53.039
So I know nothing about this at all.

1028
01:02:53.099 --> 01:03:02.460
If it's about a gas cloud, then I am getting happy, happy memories from Lonely Among Us, which also featured a sentient gas cloud.

1029
01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:08.159
And there's been so many characters throughout the Star Trek franchise that I've been obsessed about.

1030
01:03:08.219 --> 01:03:11.039
There's probably about 50 episodes you could call Obsession.

1031
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1032
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:20.760
The one with the crystalline entity and that crazy woman in it, the one with the court case with Admiral Satay in it.

1033
01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:21.900
You could have called that obsession.

1034
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:23.280
Yeah, yeah, she's obsessed.

1035
01:03:23.340 --> 01:03:27.420
Seven of 9 gets obsessed with those conspiracy theories on Voyager.

1036
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:31.079
The feeling it's Captain Kirk that's obsessed in this episode.

1037
01:03:31.139 --> 01:03:33.239
Yep, with a gas cloud.

1038
01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:34.380
I think I'm there.

1039
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:39.900
I think Captain Kirk is obsessed with a sentient cast cloud, has sold that.

1040
01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:43.860
And like a whole bunch of William Shatner just sounds like an enticing prospect to me.

1041
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:45.059
All right.

1042
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:46.320
I think we definitely do it.

1043
01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:47.039
That's no one.

1044
01:03:47.099 --> 01:03:47.460
Yeah.

1045
01:03:56.519 --> 01:04:07.980
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1046
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:13.559
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam.

1047
01:04:13.619 --> 01:04:19.320
This episode was recorded on the 27th of February 2024 and released on the 8th of March.

1048
01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:23.579
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, Obsession.

1049
01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:44.460
Don't you love it in this when Kira has to pretend to be the vorter?

1050
01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:46.440
And she's going...

1051
01:04:46.440 --> 01:04:47.159
Hang on.

1052
01:04:47.219 --> 01:04:49.139
She's going...

1053
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:54.480
She's doing a sexy thing, but she's also doing her weird haulty alien thing, which I think is really funny.

1054
01:04:54.539 --> 01:04:55.199
She's great.

1055
01:04:55.260 --> 01:04:57.659
But yes, she's being the secretary.

1056
01:04:58.260 --> 01:05:02.099
We get a fabulous sort of close-up.

1057
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:06.840
If they don't finish the brain weapon inside. then we're dead.

1058
01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:09.360
I really like that thing, though.

1059
01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:12.000
I know that's cheesy as hell but that absolutely landed with me.

1060
01:05:12.059 --> 01:05:13.500
I think it's so good.

1061
01:05:13.559 --> 01:05:15.000
I know such a great twist.

1062
01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:20.760
I'm not sure. he's doing differently, but some of that handheld camera work.

1063
01:05:20.820 --> 01:05:22.079
Who is it?

1064
01:05:22.139 --> 01:05:25.380
It's, uh, it's the best director they got at this point.

1065
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:26.400
Yeah, he's brilliant.

1066
01:05:26.460 --> 01:05:27.960
He did change the face of evil as well.

1067
01:05:28.019 --> 01:05:28.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1068
01:05:28.860 --> 01:05:35.579
But he's sort of doing this really interesting sort of handheld camera work where I'm like, is that a POV shot?

1069
01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:36.539
I not sure what's happening.

1070
01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:39.900
It's just more interesting than what I normally see on this show, you know?

1071
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.679
Yeah, yeah.

1072
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:44.880
So this is 2 episodes after changing Face of Evil.

1073
01:05:44.940 --> 01:05:47.639
What happened the episode before this?

1074
01:05:47.699 --> 01:05:56.400
So when it, when it rains is between this, and that's the episode where, um, Ducat and Win.

1075
01:05:56.460 --> 01:06:03.179
Um, she's like, you can't look at this book and he goes to look at it and he's blinded and she chucks him out.

1076
01:06:03.179 --> 01:06:04.679
She strays him out. a beggar.

1077
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:13.440
And it's also where Bashir starts doing and he realises that the Section 31 engineered the virus.

1078
01:06:13.500 --> 01:06:15.239
Isn't that this episode, no?

1079
01:06:15.300 --> 01:06:17.519
No, well, he's already, he already knows that.

1080
01:06:17.579 --> 01:06:18.420
Oh, yeah.

1081
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:19.980
So that's that's that episode as well.

1082
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:22.380
And it's the episode that brings in Gow as well.

1083
01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:33.000
And Garron's initially like, you know, if you're a friend of Martok, then you're a friend of mine to wharf after, you know, like... his 2nd discommendation.

1084
01:06:33.059 --> 01:06:35.940
And that wonderful bit where, what is that in this one?

1085
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:43.079
they all blow into one. where it's the Klingon ceremony and Cisco goes to boring Admiral Ross.

1086
01:06:43.139 --> 01:06:45.960
Oh, we're next, by the way, or whilst they're all cutting their hands.

1087
01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:47.699
And Roscoe's.

1088
01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:49.739
Abir Rosco's, you're joking.

1089
01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:53.099
And then there's a big close-up on his face like, oh, shit.

1090
01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:55.199
And he goes, oh, it still stings.

1091
01:06:55.260 --> 01:06:56.820
Oh God.

1092
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:58.199
Barry.

1093
01:06:58.260 --> 01:06:59.699
Fucking Barry.

1094
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:01.559
He's dead now.

1095
01:07:01.619 --> 01:07:02.159
He is dead.

1096
01:07:02.219 --> 01:07:06.719
Yes, day mortal, you snill, nissy bon on my note, but nevertheless.

1097
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:10.800
All righty.

1098
01:07:10.860 --> 01:07:11.880
Okay, we'll go in.

1099
01:07:11.940 --> 01:07:12.900
In we go.

1100
01:07:14.099 --> 01:07:17.039
Hey, Joe. Hi.