WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:23:14

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Okay, do it.

2
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Do it now.

3
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Oh my god, it's a DS9 episode.

4
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Oh, okay.

5
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Okay.

6
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I'm not even going to say it.

7
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I can show you It's profit and loss from series 2.

8
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Oh my god, I have no idea what that is.

9
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It's not profit and lace, is it?

10
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It's the really dreadful Casablanca ripoff, featuring Garak and Quark.

11
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Okay, are we going to want to do that?

12
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Because one of the rules that I've only just made up this moment?

13
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Is that we can just re-roll over and over again until we get embarrassed by the whole process and have to stop?

14
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Okay.

15
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I'm going to press that.

16
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Oh, I don't even know what that is.

17
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Oh no, it's a Neelix episode from Voyager.

18
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Okay, show me, show me, show me.

19
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Mortal Coil from Series 4.

20
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Oh my god, why do I even have a Star Trek podcast?

21
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I have no idea what that is.

22
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Is it about him dying?

23
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Does he have a terminal illness?

24
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He dies.

25
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And then obviously, you know, Chakosa goes on a spirit quest with him and oh, it's all incredibly racist and terrible.

26
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Yep, let's do that.

27
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Oh my, okay, no, this is the one.

28
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This is right.

29
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I will not work any more pressing of the button.

30
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Okay.

31
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Yes, today's Enterprise.

32
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Oh my goodness.

33
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That's superb.

34
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What a coincidence that we got that on our 1st outing and it had nothing to do with repeatedly doing it until we actually got something we wanted.

35
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Let's do that.

36
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

37
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So, uh, yesterday's Enterprise. you excited?

38
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I am desperately excited.

39
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I have watched it twice in the last week and both times.

40
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I think I enjoyed it, even more the 2nd time.

41
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I think this is a phenomenal episode of Star Trek.

42
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Yeah, I think so too.

43
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I think we were incredibly lucky to get it on our 1st roll. 1st roll.

44
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So let's just tell the listener a little bit about the episode.

45
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Undoubtedly everyone knows this.

46
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This is why we're doing this one.

47
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But it is series 3 of Star Trek, The Next Generation, where Star Trek, The Next Generation finally kind of gets its act together and has some idea of what it's doing.

48
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And it's some way into that.

49
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So it's episode 15.

50
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Episode 15.

51
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Um, and I'm going to very quickly stay, I think the reason why NextGen hit its groove in Series 3 was the introduction of Michael Pillar to the show.

52
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Now, this episode had 4 writers, credited, and one writer uncredited, and that writer who wrote the final polish of this script was Michael Piller.

53
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Oh, okay.

54
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He is an unsung hero in the Star Trek universe.

55
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I think I think Berman gets a lot of talk, bragger, from Moore, Ira Bear.

56
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Michael Piller basically is the guy that came in to Next Generation and sorted his shit out.

57
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Do you know what I think it is?

58
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I don't think it's a pillar at all.

59
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I think it's at the main cast stop wearing spandex uniforms.

60
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Oh, goodness sucks.

61
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They will stop wearing...

62
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They stop wearing those fabulous skirts to the wall.

63
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They're called scant, I happen to know.

64
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So show off lots of lovely masculine leg.

65
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That's all I know.

66
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So this, so this is written by, as we just learned, like half of the population of Southern California, and it's directed by David Carson, who he did generations, I want to say, and a whole bunch of...

67
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Well, he didn't do many.

68
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No, he didn't do many.

69
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He did.

70
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I think his his biggies are yesterday's Enterprise, generations, as you say, and MSA rich for DS9.

71
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Oh, okay.

72
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Um, which today, I think, is still the most expensive episode of Star Trek ever made.

73
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This is, this is, uh, has a bigger budget than like a normal Star Trek episode, though, I think.

74
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I don't know though.

75
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You know, I feel like this is just lit better and they and they've really like, um, put some focus on the look of this episode.

76
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I have no facts to back that up whatsoever.

77
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The fact that I can tell you, uh, which is quite interesting is that because, um, I don't think Guidin was initially supposed to be in this episode, um, Tasha Yar was always supposed to be in this.

78
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Yeah.

79
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And then they found a way to write Guy and Inn, and they needed both Whoopi Goldberg in high demand, and Denise Crosby in high demand to be available. to shoot this episode and they were available next week.

80
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And the script was not written yet.

81
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Right, right, right.

82
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Right.

83
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I think they usually had a couple of weeks to bash out a script.

84
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They essentially had like the weekend.

85
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There's 5 of them sort of working on the teleplay.

86
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Yeah, and none of them were happy with it, by all accounts.

87
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None of them will happen with it.

88
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Like, and on paper, this is a terrific script.

89
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I mean, I'm surprised.

90
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But apparently they all went into this with a sense of dread that this really wasn't going to work out.

91
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And look what happened.

92
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Yeah, it's pretty pretty spectacular.

93
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All right, what do you think?

94
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Are we ready to go?

95
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I'm ready to go if you are?

96
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Okay, all right, okay.

97
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Let me just get a thing happening here.

98
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Okay.

99
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So counting down.

100
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Well, you do.

101
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You do it so well.

102
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Okay.

103
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Five, four, three, two, one.

104
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And we're off.

105
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Let's go.

106
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So this scene with Wharf, is it a sort of contractual obligation?

107
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He has to be in every episode?

108
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Well, I mean, and Troy is in a scene in a 2nd as well.

109
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Very, very briefly.

110
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Yeah, I think that all the regulars that are credited in the title sequence have to show up at some point. story.

111
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I actually think though there's a good reason for him to be here.

112
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And it is that this is the Klingons.

113
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He's the only Klingon that we actually see in this episode.

114
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We hear one in voiceover.

115
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And he's talking about being a Klingon, you know, like what a Klingon is like.

116
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And it does a few other things as well.

117
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Like it reminds us of the Klingons on the Federation. you know, have good relationships.

118
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You know, there's a Klingon on board the Enterprise.

119
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He's sitting there drinking prune juice.

120
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Oh, they can be much more relaxed.

121
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But that is terrific because that is a running joke that spreads right through TNG and DS9.

122
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And lower down.

123
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Oh, is it?

124
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

125
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Well, it starts here.

126
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And I do quite like the conversation about...

127
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Yeah.

128
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Okay, well, I mean, there is, there is a, a very kinky thread that runs through Star Trek, isn't it?

129
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Very, very rotten berry style kink that runs through next generation.

130
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I think they kind of, it gets a bit sexless when Roddenbury, uh, departs the show and them and kind of takes creative control.

131
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Oh, swirly thing alert.

132
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Oh, something is wrong.

133
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But it gets Gynan to be kind of cool as well because she's really concerned throughout the episode, but here she's actually making fun of Warf and Warf is kind of coping with it and all of that sort of thing.

134
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So it introduces her character really well as well, I think.

135
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Oh, there she is, and on the bridge in her blue dress.

136
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Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, Troy herself.

137
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Less.

138
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Is this her worst outfit?

139
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No, the camel toe outfit is worse, isn't it?

140
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It's probably it's probably her worst outing.

141
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She doesn't even get a line.

142
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No.

143
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Not a line at all?

144
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Doesn't she get to say that she...

145
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She can't say anything from the soirly thing or...?

146
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Probably.

147
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I don't think she does.

148
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So watch this in a second.

149
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Watch the very simple, very economic way.

150
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They make the suggestion that we've slipped into an alternative universe.

151
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So Picard turns his head, looks at Wolf.

152
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He turns around, he covers Wolf up.

153
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He turns around again in a 2nd and Tasha yards there.

154
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It's so beautifully done.

155
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That is a that is a masterful piece of direction, I think.

156
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And the lighting.

157
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Look at the panels.

158
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The panels are all sort of orange and yellow and stuff.

159
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Like, normally they're these sort of muted Star Trek beige, right?

160
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And, and you know, it's a cruise ship, essentially.

161
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Everything is, you know, sort of sweet and lovely and comfortable.

162
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And then suddenly it's like lit in a really interesting way.

163
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And Carson will do this again when he gets control of it in generations.

164
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Like he'll completely change the sort of very flat.

165
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Well, remember, as well, he sets the tone for DS9 by doing the pilot.

166
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That's very dark and very atmospheric for out.

167
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Oh, here comes.

168
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I thought I'd say, what's that ship called?

169
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but of course it's going to be expressed.

170
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And yeah.

171
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The 2nd you take the lights down.

172
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Yeah.

173
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That dreary set that they film on.

174
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Just, it looks amazing.

175
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Yeah, it looks terrific.

176
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And that's essentially like the template of Voyager later, isn't it?

177
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Voyager's very underlit.

178
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The bridge area and enterprise as well, I think.

179
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Oh, it's Tashi Yard.

180
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Now, okay, I need to set my store immediately retachiat and say that I think she's a fairly abysmal character in season one.

181
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Okay?

182
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Well, everyone is an obysmal character in series one, though.

183
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Everyone is shockingly terrible.

184
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I hope we get one early, you know?

185
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But this definitely goes to show that had she stuck around, like everybody else, they would have done really interesting things about character.

186
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Yeah, yeah.

187
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New hair.

188
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What do you think of these titles?

189
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I think they look very stylish in HD.

190
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It helps a lot.

191
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I love the model work.

192
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I'm sorry, I know Trek went CGI and we're going to talk a lot about production differences because we're going to hop around all of Star Trek.

193
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This is my favourite period because I love the model work.

194
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There's just something. tangible about physical effect that I don't get with CGI.

195
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I um, there's apparently a show called Babylon 5, which I've never watched or even heard of.

196
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It was sort of being made at sort of roughly the same time and it used really, really sort of shitty cartoonish CGI for its sort of space sequences.

197
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You can't, I mean, I won't criticise Babylon 5 for that because it, um, you know, it pioneered CGI and we got, we got where we are now because it, it, but you just go back now and it looks like a dreadful cartoon.

198
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In comparison, the special effects in this, which are simple because you can't do as much because they are practical.

199
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But it just looks more robust.

200
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It looks real.

201
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

202
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We will see some very, very stately starship battles in this episode, though, where no one moves around very much.

203
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Well, then you compare that since like last day, DS night or now with Discovery.

204
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You know, it's terrific.

205
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That is a beautiful model, though, the Enterprise, see, look at that.

206
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That's a lovely shot.

207
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And, you know, going lovingly across the model and then heading towards the other model, it is really pretty great.

208
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They touched up the effects for these or is it still the originals?

209
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There is an HD version of this where they do do some things, but I don't know that we're watching that on Netflix.

210
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But yeah, they did, they did do an HD version.

211
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I've got the sort of crappy downloaded to my iPad version at the moment, so it's compressed to buggery.

212
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It's impossible to tell.

213
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Can I make a confession very quickly?

214
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So this is the 1st appearance of Wesley Crusher in that red Starfleet uniform.

215
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It normally wears that appalling gray...

216
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. tunic, doesn't it?

217
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Basically, Wesley in that red uniform was my sexual awakening.

218
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So I fancied him so much when I was a teen.

219
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And I used to take pictures of him in the red uniform with his hair kind of gel like that to the barbers and say, can you do my hair like that?

220
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That unfortunately is a true story. that's adorable Oh my goodness.

221
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And don't you think so?

222
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And so he's clearly had a field promotion, like all of this stuff is said without it being said.

223
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So he's there because he's got a feel promotion right because we're at war and so we need our cadets to just be in the field.

224
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And that's, you know, that's clearly what's happening.

225
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Wharf isn't on board anymore because we're at war with the Klingons.

226
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But what I think is super interesting about the set is if we get a, if we get a wide shot of it, like that set is really stupid, isn't it?

227
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Like it's clearly designed for the cameras to get around easily.

228
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It's a 4th wall camera, isn't it?

229
00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:44.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

230
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And whenever you see a high shot of it or something like that, it just looks ridiculous, there's so much sort of space and stuff.

231
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But they've really redressed it, like there's all these extra panels and stuff in there and Carson will put them back in for generations.

232
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There's so many extras.

233
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So many.

234
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So many people.

235
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Well, in the corridors.

236
00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:04.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

237
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:06.419
It reminds me of original trek.

238
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.379
Do you remember original Trek?

239
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:08.100
just people everywhere.

240
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:09.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

241
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:11.039
And I think there's a really good reason for that too.

242
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:16.860
Like later on in the dialogue, we'll hear that it can carry 6000 troops.

243
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:21.059
But the normal compliment for the end surprises were a bit over a thousand.

244
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:22.559
Now have a look at this shot, right?

245
00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:26.039
There's stairs now leading up to where the captain's chair is.

246
00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.259
And the captain's chair has nothing next to it.

247
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:41.159
And so this is like original track and like subsequent tracks, really, where the captain is, because it's a much, much more hierarchical and much, much less collaborative environment.

248
00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:42.539
You know, they're at war.

249
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.940
So you don't have the councillor next to you.

250
00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.559
Well, no.

251
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.940
What the stairs do, though, is suggest like a hub activity.

252
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:52.500
There's people going up and down all the time.

253
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:53.700
There's movement all the time.

254
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:58.679
So it feels like it feels like a bit more urgent than everyone just sitting around staring at the screen.

255
00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:04.799
But it makes his, it makes his chair a bit more like a throne, you know, because he is the commander.

256
00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:07.200
Riker doesn't sit next to him.

257
00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:19.200
You know, Riker is off to the back. who presumably he's looking at the back of Picard's head the whole time. attempting to avoid the exploding rocks.

258
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:22.559
Oh my god, more of the exploding rocks later.

259
00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:23.460
There's so many of them.

260
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:28.620
And so when Star Trek came back, right?

261
00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:39.720
It deliberately did this sort of post-cold war thing where we had had made peace with the Klingons and we had good relationships with them.

262
00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:43.200
We had exchanges, you know, in series two.

263
00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:45.539
We've got a Klingon on the bridge, all of that.

264
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:52.980
And what they decided to do was to bring it back with this sort of very 90s post-Cold War sensibility.

265
00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:54.779
You know, we're not at war.

266
00:15:55.259 --> 00:16:05.399
But it's all very, very tedious diplomacy. and this terrible kind of colonial feel that they're going around civilising the universe.

267
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:13.679
There are episodes where they literally go to do a diplomatic mission and people don't do what they want and they're like, well, we're just going to lead you to it and you're not going to do it our way.

268
00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:15.120
It's appalling.

269
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.320
It's it's...

270
00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:18.179
Star Trek's all a bit like that.

271
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.960
I think it's moved away from it a little bit, but like that is a thing.

272
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:26.700
And obviously Deep Space Night interrogates that and, you know, brings that viewpoint in.

273
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.759
Oh, look, he's Lieutenant Castillo.

274
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:41.399
They, um, so there's a big trek cliche here and that is beaming onto the ship that's all damaged and smoky and in ruins and there's bodies everywhere and, you know, every Star Trek show will do this.

275
00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:44.100
It's done particularly well here.

276
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.120
I think I think that, you know, it looks like they've been through hell.

277
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:54.360
Yeah, well, so everyone's dead on the bridge, except for Rachel and Lieutenant Castillo.

278
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:55.919
Give them time.

279
00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:57.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

280
00:16:57.419 --> 00:16:57.840
Yeah.

281
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:05.700
Um, so could I say, there's 3 creative 4s um, that were behind latter-day DS9 right in this.

282
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.460
You've got Ira Bear, Hans Beimla and Ron Moore.

283
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.140
Yeah, they had 3 biggies.

284
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:18.660
Um, This feels very season 6 DS9 to me, i.e. the Federation is at war.

285
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.279
It's very desperate.

286
00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:24.960
It's very bleak and Picard says at one point, you know, we're on the verge of losing this war.

287
00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:29.039
And Cisco says that exact line in season six.

288
00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.559
It's really interesting that for the next generation.

289
00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:33.960
This has to be an alternative universe.

290
00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:36.059
Whereas come DS 9.

291
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:37.140
This has become reality.

292
00:17:37.200 --> 00:18:01.680
Well, I think that that's why, um, I think that's why Star Trek starts to go back and do prequels, because if you've got this sort of situation where, um, you know, we're also evolved and stuff like that, that we don't really do war anymore, we never strike first, we're purely diplomatic, we just cruise around from place to place going to conferences and shit.

293
00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:05.279
So enterprise goes back.

294
00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:08.819
And Discovery is set in this situation as well.

295
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.920
They're at war with the Kleons.

296
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.599
War breaks out in episode one of Discovery.

297
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:16.680
But they've had to do some pretty big loopholes in discovery, haven't they?

298
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:19.680
Like, they tied up that wall pretty damn quickly.

299
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:26.759
And then in series 2, they skipped forward into the future so they could actually do something that has an impact, you know?

300
00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:35.339
Yeah, well, we'll talk more about that because I'm a huge fan of series one of discovery and it's massively overrated and all the people who don't like it are wrong.

301
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.799
Wrong, eh?

302
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:38.880
Oh yeah.

303
00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:41.400
And so we will get on to that.

304
00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:51.720
But again, you know, discovery is exciting because not only are we at war, but we're also worried about what we're becoming in that context, and I think Deep Space 9 does that as well.

305
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.119
Whereas he...

306
00:18:54.119 --> 00:19:04.980
But it's still doing what this is doing, which is examining the human condition, but it's doing it within a, like a situation of conflict, which next generation isn't really doing at all.

307
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:13.259
No, so in a way, this is it escaping its sort of premise a little bit to do something a bit more exciting, I think.

308
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:14.940
Um, you know.

309
00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:19.859
I mean, this is this is head and shoulders above a lot of next generation, for that very reason.

310
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.380
And this has punch, you know?

311
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:29.160
I just can't get over the number of background, just the number of people walking up and down the sheep.

312
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:29.759
It's so great.

313
00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:31.259
It is.

314
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.819
Can we can we take a look?

315
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:37.019
Sorry to interrupt you. a brief moment to talk about Captain Garrett, right?

316
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:56.519
Because this is what, 3 seasons into the next generation now or 2.5 seasons in, the last episode of TOS featured a agonisingly terribly characterised female character that wanted to be a Starfleet captain, wasn't allowed, wasn't allowed.

317
00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:58.380
And you know, and look how far we've come here.

318
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:01.559
Like she's a very strong female character.

319
00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:05.279
Um, you know, she makes some tough choices in this.

320
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:09.839
She agrees to head back into, you know, essentially commit suicide.

321
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:11.279
She's a terrific character.

322
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:12.480
Like we've come a long way, I think.

323
00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:13.380
Yeah, yeah.

324
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:22.859
You know, turnabout intruder, that episode you mentioned is, yeah, was the only original Star Trek episode to be broadcast during my lifetime for the 1st time.

325
00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:24.599
Really?

326
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.799
Yeah, okay.

327
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:26.160
Yeah.

328
00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:28.019
Sorry, it's really dreadful.

329
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:29.339
No, shockingly bad.

330
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.700
It does have Shatner camping it up, pretending to be a lady.

331
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:33.839
It's really something.

332
00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:38.579
I think...

333
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:47.099
Also, I do want to point out that Dr. Bev, who I that's what I call her, Beverly Crusher, quite a lot.

334
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.819
Dr. Bev is just as dreary in this universe as she is in ask.

335
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:52.079
I know you like it.

336
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:53.400
I know you like her.

337
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.740
She was shockingly terrible in that seat.

338
00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:06.839
Like kind of kind of, you know, um, just ostentatiously bad, I think. where she says, please try and rest or whatever and then walked away.

339
00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:11.759
Like, you know, it's fairly thankless, but gee whiz.

340
00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:12.779
Say it again.

341
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.579
Gates McFadden is a dancer.

342
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:15.720
She is not an actress.

343
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:19.319
And we will return to this every time we skip back to next generation.

344
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:28.980
I think that she does a great job directing Genesis in series 7 and I think also, which is a fabulous episode.

345
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:34.200
And I also think that she does occasionally show, she's charming.

346
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:38.819
You know, she is just terrifically charming, but she's not given any chance to do it in this episode.

347
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:40.799
You know what the trade-off is here.

348
00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:45.839
Like I'm talking about strong female characters, but our 2 female regulars.

349
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:51.539
Ben gets one scene and Troy gets nothing at all because why do we need a counsellor during war?

350
00:21:51.660 --> 00:22:05.160
But the trade-off is, obviously we get Tash Yar, who's superbly characterised here, Guyon, and it's probably her best story, and Captain Garrett, and I'm thinking to myself, well, can't these people be in it more?

351
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:07.380
Because they're much better than Troy and Dr. Bev.

352
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.359
Yeah, it's a bit of a shame, isn't it?

353
00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:20.880
Because the, you know, the, the 2 main female regulars who are left after Tasha dies have really traditional kind of caring roles, you know, like counsellor and doctor.

354
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:24.900
I mean, you know, like they're also traditionally male roles as well.

355
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:26.279
But they're sort of caring roles.

356
00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:31.740
And part of the fun thing about Tasha was that she got to be physically violent with people.

357
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.119
They start bringing in semi-regulars, don't they?

358
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:37.559
Semi-regular female characters.

359
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:40.619
You get Keiko, but she's basically the mother and wife.

360
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

361
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:44.460
Then you get in some row and she's a bit different.

362
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:45.480
Yeah.

363
00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:48.299
Yeah, they do kind of get round it, I guess.

364
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:52.619
And you've got Alyssa, Alyssa, what's her face, the other doctor?

365
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:53.339
Exactly.

366
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:55.019
Aldous.

367
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:56.759
Oh, she's lovely.

368
00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:58.980
She gets engaged. very cute.

369
00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:03.599
So the romance between Ya and Castillo?

370
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:04.319
Is that his name?

371
00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:07.559
This was what Ron Moore wrote in this episode.

372
00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:10.200
I think it's so good.

373
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:13.619
It's so incredibly good. quickly developed, isn't it?

374
00:23:13.619 --> 00:23:17.039
Yeah, I think it's sold mostly on their chemistry, which is really good.

375
00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:17.940
Yeah.

376
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:21.720
But I think, you know, like Tasha's acting her socks off.

377
00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:35.099
You know, there was a sort of thing where she was almost lesbian representation in series one because she had sort of short hair and used to beat the crap out of people and stuff and I certainly had like gay female friends who kind of liked that.

378
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:41.640
But obviously we don't have gay representation in Star Trek and the entire ideas completely unthinkable.

379
00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:49.380
But, and they do bring her back here to kind of heterosexualize her and they soften her look and all of that sort of thing.

380
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.400
Do you remember?

381
00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:54.059
Do you remember the, the, she kept going on about like rape gangs and things like this.

382
00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:55.619
Yeah, that was kind of awful.

383
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:56.700
Oh, it was horrible.

384
00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.160
But okay, so I've got a quote here from Ron Moore.

385
00:23:59.220 --> 00:23:59.940
Okay.

386
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:08.099
About Tasha Yar's departure scene in Sarah's one, which was what, skin of evil, at the hands of the tar creature Armus.

387
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:16.859
Um, and he says that nobody on the series liked how she left and the fans didn't like it, and I'm fairly certain she didn't like it too.

388
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:20.339
So we deliberately wrote this to redress that.

389
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.960
So they wanted to give her another owl, but are better out and boy, did they do that?

390
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:27.299
Yeah, I think it's so good.

391
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:40.380
And it would have been, like, it occurred to me when I was watching it this time that it could easily have been, you know, let's get Denise back as a regular and this is how we do it and we could have found some space way to sort of get her back into the regular timeline or whatever.

392
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:48.779
But I like this idea and just the fact that she's died in such a sort of pointless way works incredibly well to motivator.

393
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:50.220
Look at these two.

394
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:51.119
This is so great.

395
00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:59.579
This is, you know, the walking along the corridors, Castillo and Yar, and they're just delivering exposition, essentially.

396
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:07.680
But look at her smile, like she's kind of thinking I'm in there, you know, like she's wonderful.

397
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:14.579
And they get this dialogue in a minute where he's like, you know, oh, my friends don't call me Castillo.

398
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.319
My mother called me Richard.

399
00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:18.359
And she's like, oh, okay, Castillo.

400
00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:19.619
No, no, no, I preferred it.

401
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:20.519
You call me Richard.

402
00:25:20.579 --> 00:25:24.539
And it should be horrendous, but they play it brilliantly.

403
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.380
But I think the reason that it's, oh, look, she's put some Lippy on.

404
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:32.759
Captain Garrett is now, wash the face and put some Lippy on between scenes.

405
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:34.920
She is a female captain after all.

406
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:36.059
That is true.

407
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:41.880
Unlike um, unlike um, Richard, who is uh, still really kind of schmutzi.

408
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:42.779
Oh, here we go.

409
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:47.400
We are going to have a confrontation here with...

410
00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:57.180
I think I think this is the only moment where Dr. Bever gets to like show her teeth is when she's always, she always does it with Picard, where she's like, no, no, I'm the medical officer.

411
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:58.259
You'll do what I say.

412
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:01.319
She is so great though.

413
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.160
Yeah.

414
00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:12.839
No, the reason that I think that the, the, I would prefer you to call me Richard thing could be creepy, but Richard is the, is our abashed tears.

415
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:15.299
You know, like he's like slightly embarrassed to say it.

416
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.140
It's adorable.

417
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:18.359
Well, and they're both throughout.

418
00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:29.039
They're both really tentative with each other because they clearly want to, you know, have sex with each other until they snog in the transporter room and then there's kind of like a confidence between them from that point on.

419
00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:30.839
It's really well done.

420
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:35.519
And given that this must have been rehearsed and recorded very quickly.

421
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:37.500
If the script was written in a weekend.

422
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:42.480
They haven't had they really haven't had time to work on the relationship or anything like that, you know?

423
00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:44.460
No, I think they play it incredibly.

424
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:45.180
Oh, my.

425
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.960
How have we got this far into the episode without talking about Whoopi Goldberg?

426
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.619
Who?

427
00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:52.380
I think I think she's the best in this episode.

428
00:26:52.380 --> 00:27:08.819
And there's a scene coming up in a minute where without dialogue, she manages to unnerve me more than the Borg. where she walks into 10 forward and looks at Tashier. and it's all in her eyes where she's like, you're not supposed to be here.

429
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.539
Yeah.

430
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.940
What about Patrick Stewart?

431
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.559
I have a controversial view that Patrick Stewart isn't quite as great as everyone thinks he is.

432
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:18.779
He's still great, right?

433
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:21.839
He is still great. he is incredibly good here.

434
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:25.559
Like the the way that he plays it, he plays it completely different.

435
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:28.019
This is not at all like the normal Picard.

436
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:34.079
Like, normal Picard is sort of brusque and business-like and stuff like that, but he's really, really different.

437
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:37.380
Even just the way he carries himself. angry, isn't he?

438
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:40.200
Every night of dialogue, he says has got an anger to it.

439
00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:42.660
But it also says that he's quite brittle as well.

440
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.160
Yeah, he's on the edge, you know?

441
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:46.079
It's sort of clipped and stuff.

442
00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:48.720
He doesn't make eye contact with his subordinates as much.

443
00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:51.839
He's not warm with them in the way that we're kind of used to by now.

444
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:58.440
There's a kind of relaxed arrogance about the normal Picard, isn't there?

445
00:27:58.440 --> 00:27:58.859
Yeah, you know.

446
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:02.460
Whereas here, yeah, he's kind of edgy.

447
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.819
I always feel like he's on the verge of snapping, which I quite like.

448
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:10.980
Here's your scene with Ruby Goldberg coming in and giving dead Tasha side eye.

449
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:17.339
Dennis McCarthy did the music for this and he does a lot of music throughout TNG and DS9.

450
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:18.660
I think Voyager as well.

451
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.200
He said, this is his favourite score. of the entire run.

452
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:28.619
And you can see why, because in this scene here, the violins all come in and it's really discordant and weird.

453
00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:31.079
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

454
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:32.819
Look, but look at her.

455
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.119
Look how unnerved Denise Crosby is acting.

456
00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:44.640
You know, like there's a whole heap just being done by with facial expressions and stuff because like Star Trek, Star Trek.

457
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:46.980
It's usually Star Trek acting, you know.

458
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:56.339
And and so they're not required to kind of convey subtle emotions or anything to each other and they're not really required to convey anything very subtle here.

459
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:02.640
But, um, But just the 2 of them looking at one another.

460
00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:07.319
It's so incredibly good and she's so quick to work something out.

461
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:12.420
Like, there's a whole heap of sort of unspoken stuff here and we'll get to it a little bit later.

462
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:18.240
This is the 1st point where, um, obviously we know as an audience, things have changed and things like that.

463
00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:24.599
This is the 1st point where they're driving home. the fact that somebody really knows that this isn't how it should be.

464
00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:26.519
And it's just done with her face.

465
00:29:26.579 --> 00:29:28.019
Can you even own any dialogue?

466
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:29.819
No, no, no one reminds me.

467
00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:30.779
That's on the fact that she's here.

468
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:37.079
Desperately underracing Whoopi Goldberg, and I think they underuse her in this show, like horribly.

469
00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:43.140
Well, I think that they generally have her for a couple of hours or whatever while she's doing something else.

470
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.380
Like, I just don't think they have the opportunity to use her as much.

471
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.019
She was very keen to do this, though.

472
00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:50.579
She said, I want to do this, didn't she?

473
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:51.839
They did approach her.

474
00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:52.559
She approached them.

475
00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:53.039
Yeah.

476
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.099
Um, but when they do...

477
00:29:56.099 --> 00:29:57.180
This showing, dude.

478
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.380
Yeah.

479
00:29:58.380 --> 00:29:59.700
And the music again here.

480
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

481
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:02.220
Yeah, so good.

482
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:05.099
I love the line of dialogue.

483
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:05.759
The 1st line.

484
00:30:05.819 --> 00:30:06.839
What is it?

485
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:20.220
First time for, you know, there's a 1st time for everything, and she means it's the 1st time I've seen this shot as well, where everyone gets a line of dialogue as he pans across the conference room.

486
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.680
And again, it's not a conference room.

487
00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:26.640
They're not sat around a table like they do. not sat around that boring glass table.

488
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.160
It's a bit more dynamic than that, isn't it?

489
00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:36.900
But also the thing about not being sat around the table, having him stand and lecture to them about what they're going to do, that's another change.

490
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:39.299
You know, like he's the captain.

491
00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:40.740
It's not collaborative.

492
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:43.380
You know, yeah, it's not collaborative anymore.

493
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.460
We're in a time of war.

494
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:45.960
All of that negotiation.

495
00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:51.240
All of the kind of flat team structure is all gone out the window.

496
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.779
They all come at him saying, we don't want to do this.

497
00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:57.119
And he's just standing there going, well, we're going to do this.

498
00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:59.579
So get on board.

499
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:07.980
But I mean, there is a very hokey line of dialogue in a minute, which I think it's Geordie that says it, where it's like, oh, who knows if we're dead or alive?

500
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:10.140
And then the camera just pans onto cash up.

501
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:15.180
Dennis okay. leaps into it. literally, you made that point with Guyan in the last season.

502
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:16.259
You don't need to do this.

503
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.660
But this is still Star Trek after all.

504
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:19.140
Sure.

505
00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:30.059
I think too, what's interesting is the reason that there aren't space reasons why Picard, you know, kind of decides to go with Guyan.

506
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.599
Guidan actually just says, I don't lie to you.

507
00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:37.440
You know me well, you trust, you can trust me.

508
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:39.599
You absolutely have to do this.

509
00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:42.420
And it's the 2nd conversation they have about it.

510
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:45.779
And, you know, like that's enough to convince him.

511
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:51.779
They lean in on the Picard Guidon relationship throughout TNG's rum.

512
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:56.220
Um, and I like the fact that we've gone to an alternative universe and it's still exactly the same.

513
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.140
You know, they're still, they're still very tight.

514
00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.700
And she doesn't push it onto him.

515
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:01.980
She doesn't say no. telling you you've got to do this.

516
00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:05.759
I'm telling you, this is wrong and you need to make a decision.

517
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:06.660
Yeah.

518
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.500
Yeah.

519
00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:09.539
And this too.

520
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:11.759
Oh, Tasha and Data.

521
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:14.160
Now, that was one thing they got right in the naked now.

522
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:15.779
Yeah.

523
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:16.380
Yeah.

524
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:17.940
No, but he had that.

525
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.559
Do you remember he had the little hologram of her?

526
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:21.359
You know, like he remembered her.

527
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:23.759
Like, it was one indication.

528
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:29.640
That was, come on, that was really overdone, though, that funeral scene, where he was looking at a hologram and...

529
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:34.380
But I think it's among his belongings in like Measure of a Man in series 2 or something as well.

530
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:37.200
Like, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

531
00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:42.119
And that's a story about whether he's human or not, and he misses Mrs. Tasha and Grieves, Tasha.

532
00:32:42.180 --> 00:32:43.799
So, you know, like a little.

533
00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:48.359
You thought she had a lesbian style haircut in series one because I think that's pretty...

534
00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:49.259
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

535
00:32:49.319 --> 00:33:08.339
But, you know, like, but there's also a sort of attempt to make the people from the past to give them a sort of 60s, 50s sort of look, you know, like Star Trek always, this version of Star Trek always tells you that it surpassed by going to the middle of the 20th century because that's our past, you know?

536
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.680
And so to sell it to the audience's past, you know, so, you know, Castillo's.

537
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:14.519
I love those episodes.

538
00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:15.599
Let's not pretend that, right?

539
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:18.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. type travel episodes.

540
00:33:18.059 --> 00:33:20.700
But, you know, look at Rachel's hair.

541
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.220
It's sort of fabulous.

542
00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:28.680
She went straight out of dynasty, was she?

543
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:36.599
Yeah, where she headed past Mr. Mott, you know, just before coming back to the Enterprise Sea, I think, probably.

544
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:42.359
And, um, and, you know, Castillo's like a good old, all American boy, you know, with blue eyes.

545
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:44.099
Incredible blue eyes.

546
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:58.440
I really like the fact that the premise of this episode, which is quite complex, can be boiled down to a single sentence, and it's a line that Guidance says, and that is, this is not how things are supposed to be.

547
00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:10.679
And and the the dramatic way they get out of that idea of of asking them to commit suicide of um, of Tashi R realising that she's dead in the other time.

548
00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:13.860
Like, they drive a lot from that very simple idea.

549
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:15.119
Yeah.

550
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:24.960
But again, the, like, Picard, in a way, isn't just doing this, and we discover that in this scene here.

551
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:30.780
And I really like how fantastically, Stuart underplays this.

552
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:33.000
You know, like he barely opens his mouth.

553
00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:36.420
He's whispering, so he's not overheard by all of the people around him and stuff.

554
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.320
But there's a solid practical reason why he gets them to go back.

555
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:44.699
It's not just because, you know, the timeline or whatever.

556
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:50.820
It's because he needs them to sacrifice themselves to stop this war because we're going to lose.

557
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.059
I'll say, sod off.

558
00:34:54.119 --> 00:35:02.940
I'm not doing that Well, um, yeah, interestingly, you could literally um, cut this into DS 96. even how this is lit.

559
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:10.260
But you could have a scene featuring Picard saying we're losing the war in D9 series 6 and you could just rip it out of this episode.

560
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:11.159
Yeah, yeah.

561
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:12.539
The similarities.

562
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:14.039
I just think it's really interesting.

563
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.960
I, uh, yeah, I think maybe you're right.

564
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:28.920
I think that what happens is that they discover that this is an exciting way to do Star Trek and then they when they have their own show that no one's watching and that no one will be angry at them about.

565
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:30.179
It takes a long time, though.

566
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:30.719
Oh, yeah, yeah.

567
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:37.500
You know, they have to go through series Wild with all of those TNG knockoffs. they have to go for all these hoops to get where they want to go to.

568
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:38.940
But yeah.

569
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:43.500
You can't make a quick change in Star Trek, can you?

570
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:44.820
It's like tentative steps.

571
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

572
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:53.579
Or you just like go off the air for a long period of time and then a whole group of other people take it over, which is another good way to do it, I think.

573
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:56.159
Oh, look, they're looking at each other longingly again.

574
00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:57.119
Oh, it's lovely.

575
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:03.780
I should have thought Tasha Yah didn't have characterisation anything like this in series one.

576
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:11.280
Oh, in fact, there was another quote where Denise Crosby said she was astonished at how good the script was for this.

577
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:15.360
So that was basically her, you know, saying how terrible series one was.

578
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.400
Yeah, well, it was.

579
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:18.659
It was, yeah.

580
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:28.920
I love how there's that thing where she starts to say you're going to be, you know, you've got more ships and shields and whatever.

581
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:29.699
Do you know what I mean?

582
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:37.440
Like you'll probably win the battle for these reasons and then she just tails off because she knows that it's absurd and futile and just says you'll be fine.

583
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:40.199
I think that's incredibly gray.

584
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:50.579
I think we should take a moment to admire Captain Garrett one last time because she's about to get a massive bit of shrapnel in her head.

585
00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:52.199
Yeah, yeah.

586
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:53.280
I just wouldn't see.

587
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.639
I want a job that's not at a console.

588
00:36:56.699 --> 00:36:59.280
Can I work the ship's arboretum or something?

589
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:00.179
Those rocks.

590
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:00.599
I know.

591
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:05.039
So clearly all of the consoles are packed with rocks.

592
00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:06.000
Is that what's happening?

593
00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:07.199
Like they're...

594
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:09.420
I figure, well, they're weighted down for some reason.

595
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:11.880
I don't know. with just rocks.

596
00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:14.400
It is super weird, isn't it?

597
00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:21.059
And shards, like they just stuff them with rocks and knives. as we're about to see as the camera pans down.

598
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:25.739
Oh, that's very graphic for Star Trek.

599
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:26.219
Yeah.

600
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:30.300
And the fact that that saw us into an advert on transmission.

601
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:31.139
Yeah.

602
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:34.500
Okay, so in production terms, okay.

603
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:41.039
The idea of having those rocks in the consoles is to, you know, to make it look very dramatic when things are happening.

604
00:37:41.099 --> 00:37:48.780
But, you know, you're one of why no one in a production just said, well, yeah, but it doesn't make any sense. be wrong.

605
00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:49.800
Who cares?

606
00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:50.699
It looks dramatic.

607
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:52.079
We'll just go with it, you know?

608
00:37:52.139 --> 00:38:02.820
You know, like I actually literally went with it for 30 years and didn't actually realise until you brought it up that it was just like, why are they full of rocks?

609
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:04.079
Very bizarre.

610
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:04.739
Yeah.

611
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:06.000
Yeah.

612
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:08.880
Oh, we go.

613
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:12.659
So he is still...

614
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:13.380
Sorry, go on.

615
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.340
No call?

616
00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:15.599
No, no, no, I've got nothing.

617
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:23.219
Oh, well, I was going to say we've lost Garrett now, so we've lost our strong captain. and it's down to the 1st officer to see us into the rift.

618
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:24.840
He's not even the 1st officer.

619
00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:25.199
Is he?

620
00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:27.119
He's just like the con officer or something like that.

621
00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:29.219
Look at the how blue his eyes are.

622
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.800
He's a terribly handsome man.

623
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:36.900
I think he's in something, but I never know.

624
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.960
This was the only television I was watching in the 1990s.

625
00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:40.980
This is all we have.

626
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:45.539
They have a, they have an incredibly sort of chased kiss now with no tongue.

627
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:47.159
That's very Star Trek as well.

628
00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:49.800
I love this kiss though.

629
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:52.739
This is a little tearing up moment for me.

630
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:58.920
I think, just, again, look, look, they're so awkward.

631
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:03.719
You know, they're so incredibly awkward and they look at one another.

632
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:04.380
This is real.

633
00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:06.000
Because, you know, we've all been here.

634
00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:07.260
We've had that 1st kiss.

635
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:08.639
It is awkward, isn't it?

636
00:39:08.699 --> 00:39:10.440
You're like, oh, should I, is it you?

637
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:13.500
I don't know. they're going for it.

638
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:17.400
I don't really want to see tongues. you know, like, I don't want to see tongues.

639
00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:18.420
That was nice.

640
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:19.800
I bought that.

641
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:26.460
I mean, I don't really, I can't really remember in discovery, but I figure, I think you see more than tongues nowadays, don't you?

642
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:27.719
It's all a bit steamy, isn't it?

643
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:29.099
Yeah, I think they're rude in discovering.

644
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:29.400
I think.

645
00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:33.119
Um, Yeah, they bone.

646
00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:35.340
They said goodbye for the 2nd time.

647
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.380
I think they're gonna say goodbye for the 3rd time soon.

648
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:40.199
Yeah, yeah. that's when they crash into something, isn't it?

649
00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:40.980
Like, yeah.

650
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:42.000
Oh, here we go.

651
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:42.480
Here we go.

652
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:49.860
Oh, this sequence with Tashiar and Dinan where she says, Tasha, you're not supposed to be here, you're supposed to be dead.

653
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.739
Could you imagine somebody saying those words to you?

654
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:53.579
Yeah.

655
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:54.960
I think too.

656
00:39:55.019 --> 00:40:02.519
What's super interesting is that I think that the assumption was when she turns up in series 2 that she'd always been there.

657
00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:05.760
So she doesn't appear.

658
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:10.199
We don't see her arrive on the Enterprise and everyone knows her already.

659
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:16.739
And so the assumption is that 10 forward has always been there, but we've never seen it before and Guynan's always been on board.

660
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:29.280
But what they get to do, the, you know, they get to play on the fact that this is, you know, that those 2 scenes, that one where she was looking unnerved and then this one where she sort of tells it like it is.

661
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.519
Those are the only 2 scenes that those characters have ever had together.

662
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.860
And so they get to sort of retcon it and say, no, Gynan came on board the ship after Tasha died.

663
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:39.659
And it's just convenient.

664
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:40.199
Yeah.

665
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:43.920
They had a refit of the ship in series two, episode one.

666
00:40:43.980 --> 00:40:45.179
Your favourite.

667
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:46.619
Of course.

668
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:50.820
In fact, it's an interesting series to episode one, the child, because they make a lot of changes.

669
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.019
It's terrible.

670
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.019
Yeah, it's really awful.

671
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.659
Did you see the captain's locked there?

672
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:58.320
It's just numbers.

673
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:00.420
He's just sitting there going...

674
00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:05.159
It's a haunted look on Denise's Crosby's face now as she walks in like...

675
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:07.619
And she's like, I'm supposed to be dead.

676
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.320
And I like the fact that Picard isn't really angry.

677
00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:13.079
He just says, oh, she chose to share that information with you.

678
00:41:13.139 --> 00:41:14.760
I think he's on board now, isn't he?

679
00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:16.440
I love that.

680
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.199
She thought it was necessary to tell you that.

681
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:23.519
It's really, like, he's a little bit annoyed.

682
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:33.719
And it is only when, um, like when she makes, look how, like, he's sort of shattered and and he doesn't make eye contact with her when he tells her to sit down or anything.

683
00:41:33.780 --> 00:41:35.219
It's so good.

684
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.260
Even the what did she say to you?

685
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:41.219
You know, it's like he knows that Guynan must have told her this.

686
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:42.059
It's so good.

687
00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:45.179
The lighting in this scene.

688
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:48.420
Why isn't the show always lit as well?

689
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:49.559
It's so dramatic.

690
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:55.920
Well, it's, I, you know, I think it's actually a little bit too.

691
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:57.420
I know, I see, I don't mind people.

692
00:41:57.539 --> 00:41:59.940
See, I'd want to turn the fucking lights on if I was doing some work.

693
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:00.840
Do you know what I mean?

694
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:01.860
Like, what's he doing?

695
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.079
Just sitting there in the dark, for God's sake.

696
00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:05.099
Like what's going on there?

697
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:08.699
It is a dramatic TV.

698
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:09.960
Yeah, drama.

699
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:19.019
There's a little bit of warmth here from him, but it is so underplayed compared to what he's normally like.

700
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:20.760
And he's not jovial, you know.

701
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:41.039
Okay, I very need to quickly to remind you of a moment in Hide and Q in series one between this pair where Q puts her in the penalty box on the bridge and he's like, you know, Tasha, you can cry when you're in the penalty box and then she goes, oh, if you weren't my caption.

702
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:42.480
Oh, yuck.

703
00:42:43.019 --> 00:42:45.719
They've come a long way since then.

704
00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:51.539
I'll take this level of warmth over that.

705
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:52.440
Thank you very much.

706
00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:01.199
This is what they're talking about here, the sacrifice committing suicide for history.

707
00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:06.179
It's a big weighty ideas and Star Trek isn't afraid to play about with these kind of ideas.

708
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.420
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

709
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:18.420
There's a little bit of a kind of unreality about it, and I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm a sort of comfortable middle class person who's never risked my life to do anything.

710
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:22.380
Um, and like I don't know what war is like or anything like that.

711
00:43:22.739 --> 00:43:29.460
But I cannot believe you're doing a Star Trek commentary, you're saying there's a little bit of unreality, isn't it?

712
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:31.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

713
00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:34.199
But but I do think they do their best to sell it.

714
00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:41.639
Like, she, you know, she's going to die anyway, but she can help and that will be meaningful.

715
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.420
Like she can go out and they'll wreck it later. spoilers.

716
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.179
He gets to make the choice instead of evil.

717
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:50.460
She's just flung across a set.

718
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.079
Like, well, guess get rid of her, you know?

719
00:43:52.139 --> 00:43:55.139
Like, I think it was intended to be shocking and random.

720
00:43:55.139 --> 00:44:05.460
Like, because a death like that of a major character would normally be this centrepiece of the episode, but it kind of, it has to go on hold so the stupid action can take place in that dreadful episode.

721
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:08.940
Do you remember that dramatic red blob of blood?

722
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:10.739
about that today.

723
00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:12.719
And it looks so unrealistic.

724
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:15.119
Look, there's a jellyfish on her face.

725
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:18.900
It was Sharpie, but it's like a little, it's very weird.

726
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:21.420
But here she gets to make a choice.

727
00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:27.599
She gets to be a hero and, you know, like, if you're going to go out in TV terms, that's the way to go, right?

728
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:31.860
Yeah, it is them kind of fixing the narrative, isn't it?

729
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:37.980
But, I mean, Garrett says that heaps of them didn't want to slip out during a fight, you know, heaps of them want to go back.

730
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:40.320
You know, it's not like that.

731
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:45.000
That is a dreadful old Star Trek cliche where they're like, oh, we're going into war.

732
00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:48.360
Anyone who doesn't want to go, step backwards and nobody does.

733
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:50.760
I want it to be an episode where everybody set us back.

734
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:52.320
I go, nah, not me.

735
00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:54.420
And it's that, I'm going to miss my loved ones.

736
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.719
It's kind of like, it's 22 years, for God's sake, they'll be fine.

737
00:44:57.780 --> 00:45:01.800
Don't people sort of live for long periods of time, you know, like, goodness sake.

738
00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:04.679
Do you know what the most egregious example of that is?

739
00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:05.519
Well, I just said that.

740
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:11.460
It's in Voyages of 37s where they've got a choice to go down and be on this wonderful planet.

741
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:16.500
And Janeway goes, right, anyone who wants to go, go to the cargo bay, and I'll see you off.

742
00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:19.800
And she's outside the, outside the door, going, oh, my God, how many?

743
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:20.519
They're all going to be in there.

744
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:21.960
I'm going to lose my crew.

745
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.699
And no fucker's in there at all.

746
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:25.980
But God, say, I would have been the 1st one in there.

747
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:26.820
Get away that long.

748
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:28.980
I don't know.

749
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:30.599
What was the Wi-Fi like on that planet?

750
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:33.900
It was a Wi-Fi, like a Voyager.

751
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:35.340
It's gel packs, isn't it?

752
00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:39.000
When cheese can bring your ship down, you're in trouble.

753
00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:43.199
Oh god, they dumped that pretty quick, didn't they?

754
00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:44.400
Here we go.

755
00:45:44.460 --> 00:45:48.719
Let's make sure that history never forgets the name Enterprise.

756
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:49.800
There we go.

757
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.480
That's a very famous line, that.

758
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:52.079
Yeah.

759
00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:56.039
He's also not doing his usual fruity RSC delivery as well.

760
00:45:56.099 --> 00:46:01.800
You know, and he's all a bit more clipped and a bit, he's a very leisurely battle sequence.

761
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:08.760
He does have a moment earlier in the episode where he goes, not good enough, but it's good enough.

762
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

763
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:11.159
But even that's not his normal delivery.

764
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.519
It's not, you know, everything is a little bit more tight.

765
00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:16.559
His throat is tighter or something.

766
00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:19.260
Like everything's a little bit more clipped and urgent and stuff.

767
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.360
I'm gonna make a confession.

768
00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:29.460
I don't think there is an urgent action sequence at all in the next generation until generations.

769
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:32.400
Oh, what about Roger Dana, though?

770
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:34.260
What's that?

771
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:35.820
Oh, you know, the hunter.

772
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.559
He runs through the ship and stuff.

773
00:46:37.619 --> 00:46:39.239
No, there isn't really.

774
00:46:39.300 --> 00:46:40.920
Oh, I meant, I meant like a space battle.

775
00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:42.000
Oh no, no, no.

776
00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:43.500
Well, like at this point...

777
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:52.440
Not even in best of both Wales, because what they did, they redress that in emissary and it's a fantastic opening sequence emissary where they're attacking the board ship.

778
00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.440
Um, and that's why that, that, were they arrive late?

779
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.920
Battle of Wolf 359, they couldn't afford to arrive at the battle.

780
00:46:58.980 --> 00:46:59.579
We didn't see it.

781
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:17.159
But, like, I think this shot where the Klingon ships, like, wing now here comes into shot and stuff over the top of the, like, it's sort of a cliche, but it's all done over kind of stock footage that they have of the, of the enterprise and stuff like that.

782
00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:26.579
There's one scene where the where the model and it's all emotional controlled cameras, you know, and the model kind of turns around and starts to sort of come up.

783
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:30.059
I'm gesticulating, demonstrating it for the podcast.

784
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:36.239
You've seen this, like that shot, how many times have we seen that shot?

785
00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:39.539
That explosion, I reckon, that actual explosion.

786
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:41.099
So they can't afford it at this point.

787
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:43.920
They're still having a go.

788
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:45.360
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

789
00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:48.900
They make up for it with rocks with rocks in the things.

790
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:53.460
Riker is about to get a knife in the head because it's rocks and knives.

791
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:57.239
Well, they also seem to pack those consoles with explosives as well.

792
00:47:57.300 --> 00:47:57.960
It's very old.

793
00:47:58.019 --> 00:47:59.820
If I works there.

794
00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:01.380
I just wouldn't want to go anywhere near them.

795
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:04.619
Yeah, like earth something, for God's sake, just earth.

796
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:06.960
I'll be the counsellor, all right?

797
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:08.579
Don't want to go near a pad.

798
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.840
I actually quite like Geordie in this too.

799
00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:15.239
He gets to do some urgent shouting.

800
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:30.780
And there's something really great about this, which they would never really properly have thought of in original trek, which is just that thing there where he can stand in the in engineering and deliver urgent dialogue and it can just be heard by all the other characters.

801
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.460
I think that's sort of actually pretty cool.

802
00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:34.139
Here he is.

803
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:34.980
A question for you.

804
00:48:34.980 --> 00:48:35.880
Walking up to the camera.

805
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:39.000
How do you feel about the decapitation of Wesley Crusher?

806
00:48:39.059 --> 00:48:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

807
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:48.659
This was an original, this was originally going to be a feature that they couldn't afford because Will Wheaton's mother objected to them decapitating him or something.

808
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:55.800
They just, yeah, they didn't have the money for, you know, an elaborate action sequence.

809
00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:59.400
So they just, they basically cut straight to Riker's death.

810
00:48:59.460 --> 00:48:59.880
Yeah.

811
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:03.420
But imagine seeing the decapitation of Wesley Crusher.

812
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:04.619
Yeah, yeah.

813
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:05.699
Oh, here he goes.

814
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:12.420
A whole heap of rocks there. a knife came out of a flew out of the.

815
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:13.860
I think a rock here or something.

816
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:22.559
But I like the fact that they cut to him dead on the floor and they don't clear up the rocks to like, you know, to get over the awkward explanation as to why they're there.

817
00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:24.539
They're just falling in focus, aren't they?

818
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:27.960
Of course it's Picard.

819
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:29.760
There has to now take the...

820
00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:30.420
It's on fire.

821
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:31.739
There's fire in the foreground.

822
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:32.519
Here we go.

823
00:49:32.579 --> 00:49:35.880
Don't move, just stay still, enterprise.

824
00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:38.039
I mean, if you think about it carefully, yeah.

825
00:49:38.099 --> 00:49:39.179
It's the Klingons, right?

826
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:41.940
So they're all about self-sacrifice.

827
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:47.880
If they wanted to, they literally could have just like barged into that ship, you know, crashed into it and got rid of it very quickly.

828
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:48.840
I suppose.

829
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:51.000
Oh here we go.

830
00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:57.719
And now we're back to normal and there's look, there's Deanna in the background looking concerned. always back.

831
00:49:57.780 --> 00:49:59.400
I love Tiana.

832
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:03.420
Oh no, I was going to say, that's not the end, is it?

833
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:05.039
No, we have a scene with Guyana, don't we?

834
00:50:05.099 --> 00:50:06.420
She's like, is everything okay up there?

835
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:07.860
Yeah, yeah.

836
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.980
I was actually wondering what that scene was doing.

837
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.260
I was wondering what that scene was doing.

838
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:22.079
And I think what it's doing is that she's the only one who knows that something has happened.

839
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:34.320
Like, she's the only one who's affected by any of this because no one else can look at that woman's hair that the waitress has the most fabulous 80s nylon air.

840
00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:36.420
But, um, like she's the only...

841
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:39.659
That's always been like a thing about her species, isn't it?

842
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:41.699
they can kind of sense things.

843
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.400
There's that that thing with her cue.

844
00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:48.059
Yeah, that they've got a long history and that she lives a long time.

845
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:51.179
She talks about how, you know, 100 husbands or something at one point.

846
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:56.880
Like in the suggestion that she's lived, you know, the entirety of TOS and next generation.

847
00:50:56.940 --> 00:51:00.659
Um, but I like that about her.

848
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:08.219
Well, but I mean, here the idea is that these events have to have affected someone and what effect do they have?

849
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:13.440
She's never met Tasha, but she goes and sits down with Jordan and asks him about her.

850
00:51:13.500 --> 00:51:16.739
And I think that's actually really quite good, you know.

851
00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:18.179
It's a nice tagline.

852
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:21.480
But I tell you what, that is a packed episode, isn't it?

853
00:51:21.539 --> 00:51:22.320
Yeah, yeah.

854
00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:35.760
Yeah, it's, it, it, it, Star Trek, the Next Generation tends to be very stately. and very talky and very kind of moving.

855
00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:37.260
Paceless.

856
00:51:37.380 --> 00:51:37.679
Yeah.

857
00:51:37.739 --> 00:51:39.119
Yeah, I guess so.

858
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:39.659
I guess so.

859
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:44.639
But, um, you know, it's also ludicrous high concepts and stuff like that.

860
00:51:44.699 --> 00:51:58.019
Like, I love Star Trek the Next Generation, and like, I acknowledge that it isn't necessarily the best of, um, it's not necessarily the best of 90 Star Trek, um, but it is my sentimental favourite.

861
00:51:58.139 --> 00:52:03.480
And like I love those characters far, far more than they have any right to be loved, I have to say.

862
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:11.340
I cannot believe that you would point at this episode and call it absurd high concept when you've already mentioned Genesis in this episode.

863
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:20.099
Okay, and I think we've, no, we didn't mention rascals, but I'm mentioning it now when let's turn them all into kids.

864
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:21.780
Oh, great.

865
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:25.800
I mean, I could just throw I could just literally throw my finger in any direction.

866
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:26.579
What about the game?

867
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:33.719
where someone tries to bring down the Federation with a computer, like a terrible 3D. terrible computer game.

868
00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:34.440
So good.

869
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:35.820
Very funny, though.

870
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:45.059
But that, that for me, I think I said this at the beginning episode, I'm going to say at the end, that is a top 10 across the franchise episode, I think.

871
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:49.320
I think everything's firing on like 4 cylinders now on.

872
00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:50.219
Yeah.

873
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:55.440
And it's one of those things where, you know, it's written by a committee and you just expect that it's going to be dreadful.

874
00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:57.059
It's that sort of thing where you look.

875
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:08.940
I imagine watching it for the 1st time in seeing all those, you know, story credit by and telly play by and thinking this is just going to be an absolute kind of huge fucking mess.

876
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:11.760
And it absolutely comes together.

877
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.139
It looks great.

878
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:14.579
The stakes are high.

879
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:20.340
It fixes a weird, a weird choice that they made in series one.

880
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.679
You know, it's really, really great.

881
00:53:22.739 --> 00:53:32.579
The only thing is they will fuck it up in series 5. they'll ruin that ending Oh, with Romulan Tashiar coming back.

882
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:33.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

883
00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:34.380
I think as well.

884
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:36.539
I don't know if it's the premise.

885
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.519
I don't know if it's because there's another enterprise.

886
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:41.519
I don't know if it's because of how it's directed or shot.

887
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.400
Something's different about the performance in this.

888
00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:45.000
Everything.

889
00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:48.000
Everybody is upping their game a bit in this.

890
00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:53.579
Um, And then I think if you, what's next, the offsprings next.

891
00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:55.739
And, you know, which is a good episode.

892
00:53:56.099 --> 00:54:03.480
But I'd only say, you know, Spiners up in his game in that one and everyone's back to delivering their made for TV performances, you know?

893
00:54:09.539 --> 00:54:11.460
It's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode.

894
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:18.599
And so this time, I'm going to press the button on untitled Star Trek Project.com slash randomiser.

895
00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:25.619
And I thought that we might pick an episode from Joe's favourite Star Trek series.

896
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:32.639
Now, I don't know if you've ever mentioned this in the time that I've known you, Joe, but what is your favourite Star Trek series?

897
00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:36.900
It's very, very rare for me to express an opinion.

898
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.480
So it's highly unlikely that I have.

899
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:47.219
Um, it's Deep Space 9, which I think is, uh, is my 2nd favourite television show of all time.

900
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.079
Doctor Who's number one?

901
00:54:49.139 --> 00:54:50.219
Space 9 is number two.

902
00:54:50.340 --> 00:55:06.300
And there's a 100000000 reasons for that, which we'll go into as we talk about DS9 episodes, but I'll sum it up very quickly with sophisticated storytelling, an incredible secondary guest cast.

903
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:14.699
Um, Just like, asks hard questions about the things that Gene Roddenby wants to talk about.

904
00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:20.280
Um, you know, sort of examines the Roddenborough universe in a really compelling way.

905
00:55:20.340 --> 00:55:35.099
Um, the effects come on in leaps and bounds as we go through, the set pieces get way more uh, stylish and more exciting, um, and come the latter half of DS9. 4 through to 7.

906
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:39.719
I think that's the strongest run of episodes in any Star Trek show.

907
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:44.820
It's sophisticated, it's exciting, and it's beautifully acted.

908
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:46.139
There we go.

909
00:55:46.260 --> 00:55:46.980
Excellent.

910
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:48.300
Okay, all right.

911
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:50.880
Those all sound like convincing reasons to me.

912
00:55:50.940 --> 00:55:55.860
So that means we're just going to get something like move along home or if we should get the horses.

913
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.639
Down, 2, 4.

914
00:55:56.820 --> 00:55:58.199
Oh my god.

915
00:55:58.260 --> 00:55:59.940
Can we get moving on homeward, doing it, all right?

916
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:01.019
Okay, all right.

917
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:03.000
That's a solid commitment.

918
00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:11.280
Now, as usual, we can re-roll if we get something really tiresome. until we're sort of super embarrassed by the whole process and stop.

919
00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:12.599
What did you want to say?

920
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:14.699
I was just going to say push the button.

921
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.860
All right, okay, here goes.

922
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:17.460
Here goes.

923
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:23.760
Uh, and you can't see this because I can't see it all.

924
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.099
Shut it, mirror.

925
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:29.280
Oh, not a typical one.

926
00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:31.380
It's a mirror episode.

927
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:35.820
Yeah, it's the one with the weird gay subplot between Wharf and Garak.

928
00:56:36.539 --> 00:56:39.300
I mean, that's an interesting start.

929
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:41.159
Well, what do you think?

930
00:56:41.219 --> 00:56:45.599
Oh, I tell you what, roll it again and then we'll choose between the two, all right?

931
00:56:45.659 --> 00:56:46.679
Oh, really?

932
00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:47.460
Is that allowed?

933
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:49.079
I don't know if that's all right.

934
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:50.460
You had 3 roles for mine.

935
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:51.840
Yeah, yeah.

936
00:56:51.900 --> 00:56:54.539
But, you know, we just moved along.

937
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.440
All right, here goes.

938
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:58.079
Paradise.

939
00:56:58.139 --> 00:56:59.760
Oh my.

940
00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:00.539
Oh, yes.

941
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:03.300
Oh, okay, so that's a little quieter.

942
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:04.260
That's series 2.

943
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:12.780
It's the one with the crushed spaceship with the Technophobes where Cisco and O'Brien are there and Alexis, who's essentially Catherine J.

944
00:57:12.780 --> 00:57:14.159
Wick, because she sounds just like her.

945
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:18.059
She's basically running a coal where they're not allowed to use technology.

946
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:21.599
Do you remember Cisco gets shoved in a sweatbox?

947
00:57:21.659 --> 00:57:22.920
The box.

948
00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:24.599
Yes, I think I remember the box.

949
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:28.139
Okay, well, okay, I feel like it should be one of these 2 because they're both good episodes to talk about.

950
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:30.659
Well, I don't know.

951
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:32.219
We did re-roll.

952
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:33.420
Go for it.

953
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:35.219
Do you want to do paradise?

954
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:35.820
I don't know.

955
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:36.780
No, no, no.

956
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:37.980
Let's roll it one.

957
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:39.119
Let's make 3 old default.

958
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:39.480
Come on.

959
00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:42.659
We have to go with this one, right?

960
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:45.420
Yeah, this is the one Oh, God, it's gonna be like...

961
00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:47.340
Unless it's really terrible. profit and lace.

962
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:49.199
No, it's going to be...

963
00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:51.719
Let's hear who is without sin. if it's that.

964
00:57:51.780 --> 00:57:52.860
Oh my god.

965
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:55.019
At least that has Vanessa Williams in it.

966
00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:55.739
All right, here goes.

967
00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:58.980
It's profit and lay.

968
00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:07.920
We're not doing transphobic deep say sign episode on our 1st deep say sign episode, so we're rolling again.

969
00:58:08.699 --> 00:58:09.119
One more time.

970
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:10.800
Profit and lace.

971
00:58:10.860 --> 00:58:12.420
Are you embarrassing the process yet?

972
00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:13.019
I'm not.

973
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.179
Yeah, Melora.

974
00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:16.619
Oh, no, roll again.

975
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:19.320
That's got Dr. Grace Holloway from Dr. Who in it.

976
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:20.159
It does.

977
00:58:20.219 --> 00:58:21.000
Okay, one more time.

978
00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:21.840
Okay, number five.

979
00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:24.000
The House of Quark.

980
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:26.579
Oh, let's do that.

981
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:27.480
That's run more.

982
00:58:27.539 --> 00:58:29.400
That's a terrific comedy.

983
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:32.880
Beginning of series 3 where the show is pulling its shit together.

984
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:34.199
Like TNG.

985
00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:35.340
Yeah, yeah.

986
00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:39.300
Yeah, it has the exchange.

987
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:51.300
I'm so sorry, I'm talking about the episode already. where she just says to him, she kind of leans in and says, if you don't take your hand off my knee, I will shatter every bone in your body.

988
00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:53.579
It's so funny.

989
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:54.360
Let's do that.

990
00:58:54.420 --> 00:58:56.519
Okay, all right, brilliant.

991
00:58:56.579 --> 00:58:57.420
The House of Choir.

992
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:02.579
All right, so we will see you next time with Deep Space 9's House of Guark.

993
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:03.960
So you can watch it before then.

994
00:59:04.019 --> 00:59:05.159
Salivating.

995
00:59:14.940 --> 00:59:20.639
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

996
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:27.780
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

997
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:33.300
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

998
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:39.179
This episode was recorded on the 21st of September 2021 and released on the 5th of November.

999
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:43.679
We'll see you next time for Deep Space 9s, the House of Quark.