WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:26:40

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Okay, do it.

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Do it now.

3
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Oh my god, it's a DS9 episode.

4
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Oh, okay.

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Okay.

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I'm not even going to say it.

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I can show you It's profit and loss from series 2.

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Oh my god, I have no idea what that is.

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It's not profit and lace, is it?

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It's the really dreadful Casablanca ripoff, featuring Garak and

11
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Quark.

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Okay, are we going to want to do that?

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Because one of the rules that I've only just made up this moment?

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Is that we can just re-roll over and over again until we get

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embarrassed by the whole process and have to stop?

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Okay.

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I'm going to press that.

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Oh, I don't even know what that is.

19
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Oh no, it's a Neelix episode from Voyager.

20
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Okay, show me, show me, show me.

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Mortal Coil from Series 4.

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Oh my god, why do I even have a Star Trek podcast?

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I have no idea what that is.

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Is it about him dying?

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Does he have a terminal illness?

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He dies.

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And then obviously, you know, Chakosa goes on a spirit quest with

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him and oh, it's all incredibly racist and terrible.

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Yep, let's do that.

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Oh my, okay, no, this is the one.

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This is right.

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I will not work any more pressing of the button.

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Okay.

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Yes, today's Enterprise.

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Oh my goodness.

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That's superb.

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What a coincidence that we got that on our 1st outing and it had

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nothing to do with repeatedly doing it until we actually got

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something we wanted.

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Let's do that.

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, uh, yesterday's Enterprise. you excited?

43
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I am desperately excited.

44
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I have watched it twice in the last week and both times.

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I think I enjoyed it, even more the 2nd time.

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I think this is a phenomenal episode of Star Trek.

47
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Yeah, I think so too.

48
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I think we were incredibly lucky to get it on our 1st roll. 1st

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roll.

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So let's just tell the listener a little bit about the episode.

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Undoubtedly everyone knows this.

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This is why we're doing this one.

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But it is series 3 of Star Trek, The Next Generation, where Star

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Trek, The Next Generation finally kind of gets its act together

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and has some idea of what it's doing.

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And it's some way into that.

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So it's episode 15.

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Episode 15.

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Um, and I'm going to very quickly stay, I think the reason why

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NextGen hit its groove in Series 3 was the introduction of Michael

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Pillar to the show.

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Now, this episode had 4 writers, credited, and one writer

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uncredited, and that writer who wrote the final polish of this

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script was Michael Piller.

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Oh, okay.

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He is an unsung hero in the Star Trek universe.

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I think I think Berman gets a lot of talk, bragger, from Moore, Ira

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Bear.

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Michael Piller basically is the guy that came in to Next

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Generation and sorted his shit out.

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Do you know what I think it is?

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I don't think it's a pillar at all.

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I think it's at the main cast stop wearing spandex uniforms.

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Oh, goodness sucks.

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They will stop wearing...

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They stop wearing those fabulous skirts to the wall.

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They're called scant, I happen to know.

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So show off lots of lovely masculine leg.

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That's all I know.

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So this, so this is written by, as we just learned, like half of

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the population of Southern California, and it's directed by David

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Carson, who he did generations, I want to say, and a whole bunch

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of...

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Well, he didn't do many.

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No, he didn't do many.

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He did.

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I think his his biggies are yesterday's Enterprise, generations, as

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you say, and MSA rich for DS9.

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Oh, okay.

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Um, which today, I think, is still the most expensive episode of

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Star Trek ever made.

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This is, this is, uh, has a bigger budget than like a normal Star

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Trek episode, though, I think.

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I don't know though.

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You know, I feel like this is just lit better and they and they've

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really like, um, put some focus on the look of this episode.

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I have no facts to back that up whatsoever.

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The fact that I can tell you, uh, which is quite interesting is

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that because, um, I don't think Guidin was initially supposed to

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be in this episode, um, Tasha Yar was always supposed to be in

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this.

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Yeah.

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And then they found a way to write Guy and Inn, and they needed

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both Whoopi Goldberg in high demand, and Denise Crosby in high

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demand to be available. to shoot this episode and they were

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available next week.

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And the script was not written yet.

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Right, right, right.

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Right.

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I think they usually had a couple of weeks to bash out a script.

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They essentially had like the weekend.

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There's 5 of them sort of working on the teleplay.

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Yeah, and none of them were happy with it, by all accounts.

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None of them will happen with it.

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Like, and on paper, this is a terrific script.

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I mean, I'm surprised.

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But apparently they all went into this with a sense of dread that

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this really wasn't going to work out.

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And look what happened.

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Yeah, it's pretty pretty spectacular.

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All right, what do you think?

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Are we ready to go?

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I'm ready to go if you are?

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Okay, all right, okay.

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Let me just get a thing happening here.

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Okay.

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So counting down.

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Well, you do.

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You do it so well.

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Okay.

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Five, four, three, two, one.

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And we're off.

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Let's go.

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So this scene with Wharf, is it a sort of contractual obligation?

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He has to be in every episode?

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Well, I mean, and Troy is in a scene in a 2nd as well.

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Very, very briefly.

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Yeah, I think that all the regulars that are credited in the title

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sequence have to show up at some point. story.

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I actually think though there's a good reason for him to be here.

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And it is that this is the Klingons.

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He's the only Klingon that we actually see in this episode.

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We hear one in voiceover.

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And he's talking about being a Klingon, you know, like what a

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Klingon is like.

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And it does a few other things as well.

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Like it reminds us of the Klingons on the Federation. you know

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have good relationships.

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You know, there's a Klingon on board the Enterprise.

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He's sitting there drinking prune juice.

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Oh, they can be much more relaxed.

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But that is terrific because that is a running joke that spreads

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right through TNG and DS9.

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And lower down.

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Oh, is it?

156
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Well, it starts here.

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And I do quite like the conversation about...

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Yeah.

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Okay, well, I mean, there is, there is a, a very kinky thread that

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runs through Star Trek, isn't it?

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Very, very rotten berry style kink that runs through next

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generation.

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I think they kind of, it gets a bit sexless when Roddenbury, uh

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departs the show and them and kind of takes creative control.

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Oh, swirly thing alert.

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Oh, something is wrong.

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But it gets Gynan to be kind of cool as well because she's really

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concerned throughout the episode, but here she's actually making

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fun of Warf and Warf is kind of coping with it and all of that

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sort of thing.

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So it introduces her character really well as well, I think.

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Oh, there she is, and on the bridge in her blue dress.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, Troy herself.

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Less.

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Is this her worst outfit?

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No, the camel toe outfit is worse, isn't it?

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It's probably it's probably her worst outing.

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She doesn't even get a line.

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No.

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Not a line at all?

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Doesn't she get to say that she...

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She can't say anything from the soirly thing or...?

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Probably.

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I don't think she does.

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So watch this in a second.

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Watch the very simple, very economic way.

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They make the suggestion that we've slipped into an alternative

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universe.

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So Picard turns his head, looks at Wolf.

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He turns around, he covers Wolf up.

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He turns around again in a 2nd and Tasha yards there.

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It's so beautifully done.

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That is a that is a masterful piece of direction, I think.

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And the lighting.

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Look at the panels.

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The panels are all sort of orange and yellow and stuff.

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Like, normally they're these sort of muted Star Trek beige, right?

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And, and you know, it's a cruise ship, essentially.

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Everything is, you know, sort of sweet and lovely and

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comfortable.

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And then suddenly it's like lit in a really interesting way.

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And Carson will do this again when he gets control of it in

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generations.

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Like he'll completely change the sort of very flat.

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Well, remember, as well, he sets the tone for DS9 by doing the

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pilot.

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That's very dark and very atmospheric for out.

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Oh, here comes.

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I thought I'd say, what's that ship called?

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but of course it's going to be expressed.

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And yeah.

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The 2nd you take the lights down.

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Yeah.

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That dreary set that they film on.

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Just, it looks amazing.

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Yeah, it looks terrific.

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And that's essentially like the template of Voyager later, isn't

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it?

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Voyager's very underlit.

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The bridge area and enterprise as well, I think.

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Oh, it's Tashi Yard.

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Now, okay, I need to set my store immediately retachiat and say

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that I think she's a fairly abysmal character in season one.

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Okay?

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Well, everyone is an obysmal character in series one, though.

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Everyone is shockingly terrible.

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I hope we get one early, you know?

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But this definitely goes to show that had she stuck around, like

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everybody else, they would have done really interesting things

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about character.

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Yeah, yeah.

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New hair.

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What do you think of these titles?

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I think they look very stylish in HD.

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It helps a lot.

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I love the model work.

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I'm sorry, I know Trek went CGI and we're going to talk a lot

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about production differences because we're going to hop around all

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of Star Trek.

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This is my favourite period because I love the model work.

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There's just something. tangible about physical effect that I

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don't get with CGI.

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I um, there's apparently a show called Babylon 5, which I've never

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watched or even heard of.

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It was sort of being made at sort of roughly the same time and it

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used really, really sort of shitty cartoonish CGI for its sort of

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space sequences.

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You can't, I mean, I won't criticise Babylon 5 for that because it

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um, you know, it pioneered CGI and we got, we got where we are now

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because it, it, but you just go back now and it looks like a

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dreadful cartoon.

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In comparison, the special effects in this, which are simple

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because you can't do as much because they are practical.

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But it just looks more robust.

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It looks real.

257
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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We will see some very, very stately starship battles in this

259
00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:43.080
episode, though, where no one moves around very much.

260
00:11:44.580 --> 00:11:48.960
Well, then you compare that since like last day, DS night or now

261
00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:50.580
with Discovery.

262
00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:52.019
You know, it's terrific.

263
00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:55.259
That is a beautiful model, though, the Enterprise, see, look at

264
00:11:55.259 --> 00:11:55.379
that.

265
00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:56.940
That's a lovely shot.

266
00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.899
And, you know, going lovingly across the model and then heading

267
00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:04.500
towards the other model, it is really pretty great.

268
00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:08.100
They touched up the effects for these or is it still the

269
00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:08.580
originals?

270
00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:13.559
There is an HD version of this where they do do some things, but I

271
00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:15.899
don't know that we're watching that on Netflix.

272
00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:21.059
But yeah, they did, they did do an HD version.

273
00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.360
I've got the sort of crappy downloaded to my iPad version at the

274
00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:25.860
moment, so it's compressed to buggery.

275
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:26.820
It's impossible to tell.

276
00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.820
Can I make a confession very quickly?

277
00:12:30.059 --> 00:12:34.379
So this is the 1st appearance of Wesley Crusher in that red

278
00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:36.299
Starfleet uniform.

279
00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:39.240
It normally wears that appalling gray...

280
00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.580
Yeah, yeah, yeah. tunic, doesn't it?

281
00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:45.960
Basically, Wesley in that red uniform was my sexual awakening.

282
00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:50.039
So I fancied him so much when I was a teen.

283
00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:54.419
And I used to take pictures of him in the red uniform with his

284
00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:57.539
hair kind of gel like that to the barbers and say, can you do my

285
00:12:57.539 --> 00:12:58.019
hair like that?

286
00:13:00.419 --> 00:13:05.759
That unfortunately is a true story. that's adorable Oh my

287
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:06.120
goodness.

288
00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:08.039
And don't you think so?

289
00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:11.639
And so he's clearly had a field promotion, like all of this stuff

290
00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.860
is said without it being said.

291
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.799
So he's there because he's got a feel promotion right because

292
00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:21.059
we're at war and so we need our cadets to just be in the field.

293
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.820
And that's, you know, that's clearly what's happening.

294
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.820
Wharf isn't on board anymore because we're at war with the

295
00:13:26.820 --> 00:13:27.360
Klingons.

296
00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:33.899
But what I think is super interesting about the set is if we get a

297
00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:37.440
if we get a wide shot of it, like that set is really stupid, isn't

298
00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:37.620
it?

299
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:41.100
Like it's clearly designed for the cameras to get around easily.

300
00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:42.960
It's a 4th wall camera, isn't it?

301
00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:44.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

302
00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:47.220
And whenever you see a high shot of it or something like that, it

303
00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:49.919
just looks ridiculous, there's so much sort of space and stuff.

304
00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:53.460
But they've really redressed it, like there's all these extra

305
00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:56.460
panels and stuff in there and Carson will put them back in for

306
00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:57.600
generations.

307
00:13:57.659 --> 00:13:59.759
There's so many extras.

308
00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:00.899
So many.

309
00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:01.559
So many people.

310
00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:03.659
Well, in the corridors.

311
00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:04.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

312
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:06.419
It reminds me of original trek.

313
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.379
Do you remember original Trek?

314
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:08.100
just people everywhere.

315
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:09.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

316
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:11.039
And I think there's a really good reason for that too.

317
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:16.019
Like later on in the dialogue, we'll hear that it can carry 6000

318
00:14:16.019 --> 00:14:16.860
troops.

319
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.820
But the normal compliment for the end surprises were a bit over a

320
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:21.059
thousand.

321
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:22.559
Now have a look at this shot, right?

322
00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:26.039
There's stairs now leading up to where the captain's chair is.

323
00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.259
And the captain's chair has nothing next to it.

324
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:33.000
And so this is like original track and like subsequent tracks

325
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.960
really, where the captain is, because it's a much, much more

326
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:41.159
hierarchical and much, much less collaborative environment.

327
00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:42.539
You know, they're at war.

328
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.940
So you don't have the councillor next to you.

329
00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.559
Well, no.

330
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.940
What the stairs do, though, is suggest like a hub activity.

331
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:52.500
There's people going up and down all the time.

332
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:53.700
There's movement all the time.

333
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:57.000
So it feels like it feels like a bit more urgent than everyone

334
00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:58.679
just sitting around staring at the screen.

335
00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:02.700
But it makes his, it makes his chair a bit more like a throne, you

336
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:04.799
know, because he is the commander.

337
00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:07.200
Riker doesn't sit next to him.

338
00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:12.299
You know, Riker is off to the back. who presumably he's looking at

339
00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:18.360
the back of Picard's head the whole time. attempting to avoid the

340
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:19.200
exploding rocks.

341
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:22.559
Oh my god, more of the exploding rocks later.

342
00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:23.460
There's so many of them.

343
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:28.620
And so when Star Trek came back, right?

344
00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:33.600
It deliberately did this sort of post-cold war thing where we had

345
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:39.120
had made peace with the Klingons and we had good relationships

346
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.720
with them.

347
00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:43.200
We had exchanges, you know, in series two.

348
00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:45.539
We've got a Klingon on the bridge, all of that.

349
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:50.100
And what they decided to do was to bring it back with this sort of

350
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.980
very 90s post-Cold War sensibility.

351
00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:54.779
You know, we're not at war.

352
00:15:55.259 --> 00:16:02.039
But it's all very, very tedious diplomacy. and this terrible kind

353
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.919
of colonial feel that they're going around civilising the

354
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:05.399
universe.

355
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.879
There are episodes where they literally go to do a diplomatic

356
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.460
mission and people don't do what they want and they're like, well

357
00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:13.259
we're just going to lead you to it and you're not going to do it

358
00:16:13.259 --> 00:16:13.679
our way.

359
00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:15.120
It's appalling.

360
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.320
It's it's...

361
00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:18.179
Star Trek's all a bit like that.

362
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.600
I think it's moved away from it a little bit, but like that is a

363
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:21.960
thing.

364
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:25.379
And obviously Deep Space Night interrogates that and, you know

365
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:26.700
brings that viewpoint in.

366
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.759
Oh, look, he's Lieutenant Castillo.

367
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:34.139
They, um, so there's a big trek cliche here and that is beaming

368
00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:38.100
onto the ship that's all damaged and smoky and in ruins and

369
00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:41.039
there's bodies everywhere and, you know, every Star Trek show will

370
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:41.399
do this.

371
00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:44.100
It's done particularly well here.

372
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.759
I think I think that, you know, it looks like they've been through

373
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:48.120
hell.

374
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.440
Yeah, well, so everyone's dead on the bridge, except for Rachel

375
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.360
and Lieutenant Castillo.

376
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:55.919
Give them time.

377
00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:57.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

378
00:16:57.419 --> 00:16:57.840
Yeah.

379
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:03.240
Um, so could I say, there's 3 creative 4s um, that were behind

380
00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:05.700
latter-day DS9 right in this.

381
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.460
You've got Ira Bear, Hans Beimla and Ron Moore.

382
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.140
Yeah, they had 3 biggies.

383
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:18.180
Um, This feels very season 6 DS9 to me, i.e. the Federation is at

384
00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:18.660
war.

385
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.279
It's very desperate.

386
00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:23.579
It's very bleak and Picard says at one point, you know, we're on

387
00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:24.960
the verge of losing this war.

388
00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:29.039
And Cisco says that exact line in season six.

389
00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.559
It's really interesting that for the next generation.

390
00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:33.960
This has to be an alternative universe.

391
00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:36.059
Whereas come DS 9.

392
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:37.140
This has become reality.

393
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:43.559
Well, I think that that's why, um, I think that's why Star Trek

394
00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.759
starts to go back and do prequels, because if you've got this sort

395
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:52.079
of situation where, um, you know, we're also evolved and stuff

396
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.039
like that, that we don't really do war anymore, we never strike

397
00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:59.700
first, we're purely diplomatic, we just cruise around from place

398
00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:01.680
to place going to conferences and shit.

399
00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:05.279
So enterprise goes back.

400
00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:08.819
And Discovery is set in this situation as well.

401
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.920
They're at war with the Kleons.

402
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.599
War breaks out in episode one of Discovery.

403
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:16.200
But they've had to do some pretty big loopholes in discovery

404
00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:16.680
haven't they?

405
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:19.680
Like, they tied up that wall pretty damn quickly.

406
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:24.059
And then in series 2, they skipped forward into the future so they

407
00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:26.759
could actually do something that has an impact, you know?

408
00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:30.720
Yeah, well, we'll talk more about that because I'm a huge fan of

409
00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:34.140
series one of discovery and it's massively overrated and all the

410
00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:35.339
people who don't like it are wrong.

411
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.799
Wrong, eh?

412
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:38.880
Oh yeah.

413
00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:41.400
And so we will get on to that.

414
00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:45.779
But again, you know, discovery is exciting because not only are we

415
00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:49.019
at war, but we're also worried about what we're becoming in that

416
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:51.720
context, and I think Deep Space 9 does that as well.

417
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.119
Whereas he...

418
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:57.420
But it's still doing what this is doing, which is examining the

419
00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:01.859
human condition, but it's doing it within a, like a situation of

420
00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:04.980
conflict, which next generation isn't really doing at all.

421
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:09.960
No, so in a way, this is it escaping its sort of premise a little

422
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.259
bit to do something a bit more exciting, I think.

423
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:14.940
Um, you know.

424
00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:18.000
I mean, this is this is head and shoulders above a lot of next

425
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.859
generation, for that very reason.

426
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.380
And this has punch, you know?

427
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:27.539
I just can't get over the number of background, just the number of

428
00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:29.160
people walking up and down the sheep.

429
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:29.759
It's so great.

430
00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:31.259
It is.

431
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.819
Can we can we take a look?

432
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:36.059
Sorry to interrupt you. a brief moment to talk about Captain

433
00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:37.019
Garrett, right?

434
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.740
Because this is what, 3 seasons into the next generation now or

435
00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:48.240
2.5 seasons in, the last episode of TOS featured a agonisingly

436
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.680
terribly characterised female character that wanted to be a

437
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.519
Starfleet captain, wasn't allowed, wasn't allowed.

438
00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:58.380
And you know, and look how far we've come here.

439
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:01.559
Like she's a very strong female character.

440
00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:05.279
Um, you know, she makes some tough choices in this.

441
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:09.299
She agrees to head back into, you know, essentially commit

442
00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:09.839
suicide.

443
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:11.279
She's a terrific character.

444
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:12.480
Like we've come a long way, I think.

445
00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:13.380
Yeah, yeah.

446
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.980
You know, turnabout intruder, that episode you mentioned is, yeah

447
00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:21.599
was the only original Star Trek episode to be broadcast during my

448
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:22.859
lifetime for the 1st time.

449
00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:24.599
Really?

450
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.799
Yeah, okay.

451
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:26.160
Yeah.

452
00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:28.019
Sorry, it's really dreadful.

453
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:29.339
No, shockingly bad.

454
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.700
It does have Shatner camping it up, pretending to be a lady.

455
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:33.839
It's really something.

456
00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:38.579
I think...

457
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:45.299
Also, I do want to point out that Dr. Bev, who I that's what I

458
00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:47.099
call her, Beverly Crusher, quite a lot.

459
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.819
Dr. Bev is just as dreary in this universe as she is in ask.

460
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:52.079
I know you like it.

461
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:53.400
I know you like her.

462
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.740
She was shockingly terrible in that seat.

463
00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:02.339
Like kind of kind of, you know, um, just ostentatiously bad, I

464
00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:06.000
think. where she says, please try and rest or whatever and then

465
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:06.839
walked away.

466
00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:11.759
Like, you know, it's fairly thankless, but gee whiz.

467
00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:12.779
Say it again.

468
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.579
Gates McFadden is a dancer.

469
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:15.720
She is not an actress.

470
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:18.900
And we will return to this every time we skip back to next

471
00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:19.319
generation.

472
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:24.240
I think that she does a great job directing Genesis in series 7

473
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:28.980
and I think also, which is a fabulous episode.

474
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:34.200
And I also think that she does occasionally show, she's charming.

475
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:37.619
You know, she is just terrifically charming, but she's not given

476
00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:38.819
any chance to do it in this episode.

477
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:40.799
You know what the trade-off is here.

478
00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:45.000
Like I'm talking about strong female characters, but our 2 female

479
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:45.839
regulars.

480
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:50.460
Ben gets one scene and Troy gets nothing at all because why do we

481
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:51.539
need a counsellor during war?

482
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:56.759
But the trade-off is, obviously we get Tash Yar, who's superbly

483
00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:01.019
characterised here, Guyon, and it's probably her best story, and

484
00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:04.319
Captain Garrett, and I'm thinking to myself, well, can't these

485
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:05.160
people be in it more?

486
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:07.380
Because they're much better than Troy and Dr. Bev.

487
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.359
Yeah, it's a bit of a shame, isn't it?

488
00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:13.799
Because the, you know, the, the 2 main female regulars who are

489
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:19.140
left after Tasha dies have really traditional kind of caring roles

490
00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:20.880
you know, like counsellor and doctor.

491
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:24.660
I mean, you know, like they're also traditionally male roles as

492
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:24.900
well.

493
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:26.279
But they're sort of caring roles.

494
00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:29.880
And part of the fun thing about Tasha was that she got to be

495
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:31.740
physically violent with people.

496
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.119
They start bringing in semi-regulars, don't they?

497
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:37.559
Semi-regular female characters.

498
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:40.619
You get Keiko, but she's basically the mother and wife.

499
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

500
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:44.460
Then you get in some row and she's a bit different.

501
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:45.480
Yeah.

502
00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:48.299
Yeah, they do kind of get round it, I guess.

503
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:52.619
And you've got Alyssa, Alyssa, what's her face, the other doctor?

504
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:53.339
Exactly.

505
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:55.019
Aldous.

506
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:56.759
Oh, she's lovely.

507
00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:58.980
She gets engaged. very cute.

508
00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:03.599
So the romance between Ya and Castillo?

509
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:04.319
Is that his name?

510
00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:07.559
This was what Ron Moore wrote in this episode.

511
00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:10.200
I think it's so good.

512
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:13.619
It's so incredibly good. quickly developed, isn't it?

513
00:23:13.619 --> 00:23:16.799
Yeah, I think it's sold mostly on their chemistry, which is really

514
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:17.039
good.

515
00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:17.940
Yeah.

516
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:21.720
But I think, you know, like Tasha's acting her socks off.

517
00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:26.460
You know, there was a sort of thing where she was almost lesbian

518
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:29.339
representation in series one because she had sort of short hair

519
00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:31.680
and used to beat the crap out of people and stuff and I certainly

520
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.099
had like gay female friends who kind of liked that.

521
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.940
But obviously we don't have gay representation in Star Trek and

522
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:41.640
the entire ideas completely unthinkable.

523
00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:47.099
But, and they do bring her back here to kind of heterosexualize

524
00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:49.380
her and they soften her look and all of that sort of thing.

525
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.400
Do you remember?

526
00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:53.279
Do you remember the, the, she kept going on about like rape gangs

527
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:54.059
and things like this.

528
00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:55.619
Yeah, that was kind of awful.

529
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:56.700
Oh, it was horrible.

530
00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.160
But okay, so I've got a quote here from Ron Moore.

531
00:23:59.220 --> 00:23:59.940
Okay.

532
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.920
About Tasha Yar's departure scene in Sarah's one, which was what

533
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:08.099
skin of evil, at the hands of the tar creature Armus.

534
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:13.259
Um, and he says that nobody on the series liked how she left and

535
00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:16.619
the fans didn't like it, and I'm fairly certain she didn't like it

536
00:24:16.619 --> 00:24:16.859
too.

537
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:20.339
So we deliberately wrote this to redress that.

538
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.420
So they wanted to give her another owl, but are better out and boy

539
00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:24.960
did they do that?

540
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:27.299
Yeah, I think it's so good.

541
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.640
And it would have been, like, it occurred to me when I was

542
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.039
watching it this time that it could easily have been, you know

543
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.240
let's get Denise back as a regular and this is how we do it and we

544
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.119
could have found some space way to sort of get her back into the

545
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:40.380
regular timeline or whatever.

546
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:44.759
But I like this idea and just the fact that she's died in such a

547
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.779
sort of pointless way works incredibly well to motivator.

548
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:50.220
Look at these two.

549
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:51.119
This is so great.

550
00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:55.380
This is, you know, the walking along the corridors, Castillo and

551
00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:59.579
Yar, and they're just delivering exposition, essentially.

552
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.900
But look at her smile, like she's kind of thinking I'm in there

553
00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:07.680
you know, like she's wonderful.

554
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:12.900
And they get this dialogue in a minute where he's like, you know

555
00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:14.579
oh, my friends don't call me Castillo.

556
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.319
My mother called me Richard.

557
00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:18.359
And she's like, oh, okay, Castillo.

558
00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:19.619
No, no, no, I preferred it.

559
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:20.519
You call me Richard.

560
00:25:20.579 --> 00:25:24.539
And it should be horrendous, but they play it brilliantly.

561
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.960
But I think the reason that it's, oh, look, she's put some Lippy

562
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:28.380
on.

563
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:32.039
Captain Garrett is now, wash the face and put some Lippy on

564
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:32.759
between scenes.

565
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:34.920
She is a female captain after all.

566
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:36.059
That is true.

567
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:41.039
Unlike um, unlike um, Richard, who is uh, still really kind of

568
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:41.880
schmutzi.

569
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:42.779
Oh, here we go.

570
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:47.400
We are going to have a confrontation here with...

571
00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:51.420
I think I think this is the only moment where Dr. Bever gets to

572
00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:54.119
like show her teeth is when she's always, she always does it with

573
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.180
Picard, where she's like, no, no, I'm the medical officer.

574
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:58.259
You'll do what I say.

575
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:01.319
She is so great though.

576
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.160
Yeah.

577
00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:05.339
No, the reason that I think that the, the, I would prefer you to

578
00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:11.759
call me Richard thing could be creepy, but Richard is the, is our

579
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:12.839
abashed tears.

580
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:15.299
You know, like he's like slightly embarrassed to say it.

581
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.140
It's adorable.

582
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:18.359
Well, and they're both throughout.

583
00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:21.779
They're both really tentative with each other because they clearly

584
00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:25.500
want to, you know, have sex with each other until they snog in the

585
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:27.599
transporter room and then there's kind of like a confidence

586
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.039
between them from that point on.

587
00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:30.839
It's really well done.

588
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:35.039
And given that this must have been rehearsed and recorded very

589
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.519
quickly.

590
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:37.500
If the script was written in a weekend.

591
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.980
They haven't had they really haven't had time to work on the

592
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:42.480
relationship or anything like that, you know?

593
00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:44.460
No, I think they play it incredibly.

594
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:45.180
Oh, my.

595
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:47.880
How have we got this far into the episode without talking about

596
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:48.960
Whoopi Goldberg?

597
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.619
Who?

598
00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:52.380
I think I think she's the best in this episode.

599
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:56.880
And there's a scene coming up in a minute where without dialogue

600
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:02.460
she manages to unnerve me more than the Borg. where she walks into

601
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:07.019
10 forward and looks at Tashier. and it's all in her eyes where

602
00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:08.819
she's like, you're not supposed to be here.

603
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.539
Yeah.

604
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.940
What about Patrick Stewart?

605
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.180
I have a controversial view that Patrick Stewart isn't quite as

606
00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:16.559
great as everyone thinks he is.

607
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:18.779
He's still great, right?

608
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:21.839
He is still great. he is incredibly good here.

609
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.900
Like the the way that he plays it, he plays it completely

610
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:25.559
different.

611
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:28.019
This is not at all like the normal Picard.

612
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.559
Like, normal Picard is sort of brusque and business-like and stuff

613
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:34.079
like that, but he's really, really different.

614
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:37.380
Even just the way he carries himself. angry, isn't he?

615
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:40.200
Every night of dialogue, he says has got an anger to it.

616
00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:42.660
But it also says that he's quite brittle as well.

617
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.160
Yeah, he's on the edge, you know?

618
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:46.079
It's sort of clipped and stuff.

619
00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:48.720
He doesn't make eye contact with his subordinates as much.

620
00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:51.599
He's not warm with them in the way that we're kind of used to by

621
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:51.839
now.

622
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:58.319
There's a kind of relaxed arrogance about the normal Picard, isn't

623
00:27:58.319 --> 00:27:58.440
there?

624
00:27:58.440 --> 00:27:58.859
Yeah, you know.

625
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:02.460
Whereas here, yeah, he's kind of edgy.

626
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.519
I always feel like he's on the verge of snapping, which I quite

627
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:05.819
like.

628
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.839
Here's your scene with Ruby Goldberg coming in and giving dead

629
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.980
Tasha side eye.

630
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:14.700
Dennis McCarthy did the music for this and he does a lot of music

631
00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:17.339
throughout TNG and DS9.

632
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:18.660
I think Voyager as well.

633
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.200
He said, this is his favourite score. of the entire run.

634
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.160
And you can see why, because in this scene here, the violins all

635
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.619
come in and it's really discordant and weird.

636
00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:31.079
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

637
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:32.819
Look, but look at her.

638
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.119
Look how unnerved Denise Crosby is acting.

639
00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:41.279
You know, like there's a whole heap just being done by with facial

640
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.640
expressions and stuff because like Star Trek, Star Trek.

641
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:46.980
It's usually Star Trek acting, you know.

642
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:51.900
And and so they're not required to kind of convey subtle emotions

643
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:54.059
or anything to each other and they're not really required to

644
00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:56.339
convey anything very subtle here.

645
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:02.640
But, um, But just the 2 of them looking at one another.

646
00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:07.319
It's so incredibly good and she's so quick to work something out.

647
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.220
Like, there's a whole heap of sort of unspoken stuff here and

648
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.420
we'll get to it a little bit later.

649
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:17.099
This is the 1st point where, um, obviously we know as an audience

650
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:18.240
things have changed and things like that.

651
00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:21.420
This is the 1st point where they're driving home. the fact that

652
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:24.599
somebody really knows that this isn't how it should be.

653
00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:26.519
And it's just done with her face.

654
00:29:26.579 --> 00:29:28.019
Can you even own any dialogue?

655
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:29.819
No, no, no one reminds me.

656
00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:30.779
That's on the fact that she's here.

657
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.980
Desperately underracing Whoopi Goldberg, and I think they underuse

658
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:37.079
her in this show, like horribly.

659
00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:41.339
Well, I think that they generally have her for a couple of hours

660
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:43.140
or whatever while she's doing something else.

661
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.140
Like, I just don't think they have the opportunity to use her as

662
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:46.380
much.

663
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.019
She was very keen to do this, though.

664
00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:50.579
She said, I want to do this, didn't she?

665
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:51.839
They did approach her.

666
00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:52.559
She approached them.

667
00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:53.039
Yeah.

668
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.099
Um, but when they do...

669
00:29:56.099 --> 00:29:57.180
This showing, dude.

670
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.380
Yeah.

671
00:29:58.380 --> 00:29:59.700
And the music again here.

672
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

673
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:02.220
Yeah, so good.

674
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:05.099
I love the line of dialogue.

675
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:05.759
The 1st line.

676
00:30:05.819 --> 00:30:06.839
What is it?

677
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:11.460
First time for, you know, there's a 1st time for everything, and

678
00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:15.000
she means it's the 1st time I've seen this shot as well, where

679
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.259
everyone gets a line of dialogue as he pans across the conference

680
00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:20.220
room.

681
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.680
And again, it's not a conference room.

682
00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:25.380
They're not sat around a table like they do. not sat around that

683
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:26.640
boring glass table.

684
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.160
It's a bit more dynamic than that, isn't it?

685
00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:32.460
But also the thing about not being sat around the table, having

686
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:35.759
him stand and lecture to them about what they're going to do

687
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:36.900
that's another change.

688
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:39.299
You know, like he's the captain.

689
00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:40.740
It's not collaborative.

690
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:43.380
You know, yeah, it's not collaborative anymore.

691
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.460
We're in a time of war.

692
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:45.960
All of that negotiation.

693
00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:51.059
All of the kind of flat team structure is all gone out the

694
00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:51.240
window.

695
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.779
They all come at him saying, we don't want to do this.

696
00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:57.119
And he's just standing there going, well, we're going to do this.

697
00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:59.579
So get on board.

698
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.640
But I mean, there is a very hokey line of dialogue in a minute

699
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.779
which I think it's Geordie that says it, where it's like, oh, who

700
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:07.980
knows if we're dead or alive?

701
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:10.140
And then the camera just pans onto cash up.

702
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:14.099
Dennis okay. leaps into it. literally, you made that point with

703
00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:15.180
Guyan in the last season.

704
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:16.259
You don't need to do this.

705
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.660
But this is still Star Trek after all.

706
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:19.140
Sure.

707
00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:24.000
I think too, what's interesting is the reason that there aren't

708
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:29.400
space reasons why Picard, you know, kind of decides to go with

709
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:30.059
Guyan.

710
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.599
Guidan actually just says, I don't lie to you.

711
00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:37.440
You know me well, you trust, you can trust me.

712
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:39.599
You absolutely have to do this.

713
00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:42.420
And it's the 2nd conversation they have about it.

714
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:45.779
And, you know, like that's enough to convince him.

715
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:51.420
They lean in on the Picard Guidon relationship throughout TNG's

716
00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:51.779
rum.

717
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.839
Um, and I like the fact that we've gone to an alternative universe

718
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:56.220
and it's still exactly the same.

719
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.140
You know, they're still, they're still very tight.

720
00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.700
And she doesn't push it onto him.

721
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:01.980
She doesn't say no. telling you you've got to do this.

722
00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:05.759
I'm telling you, this is wrong and you need to make a decision.

723
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:06.660
Yeah.

724
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.500
Yeah.

725
00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:09.539
And this too.

726
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:11.759
Oh, Tasha and Data.

727
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:14.160
Now, that was one thing they got right in the naked now.

728
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:15.779
Yeah.

729
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:16.380
Yeah.

730
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:17.940
No, but he had that.

731
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.559
Do you remember he had the little hologram of her?

732
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:21.359
You know, like he remembered her.

733
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:23.759
Like, it was one indication.

734
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:26.700
That was, come on, that was really overdone, though, that funeral

735
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:29.640
scene, where he was looking at a hologram and...

736
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.940
But I think it's among his belongings in like Measure of a Man in

737
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:34.380
series 2 or something as well.

738
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:37.200
Like, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

739
00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:40.079
And that's a story about whether he's human or not, and he misses

740
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:42.119
Mrs. Tasha and Grieves, Tasha.

741
00:32:42.180 --> 00:32:43.799
So, you know, like a little.

742
00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:47.039
You thought she had a lesbian style haircut in series one because

743
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:48.359
I think that's pretty...

744
00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:49.259
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

745
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.980
But, you know, like, but there's also a sort of attempt to make

746
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:57.240
the people from the past to give them a sort of 60s, 50s sort of

747
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:02.940
look, you know, like Star Trek always, this version of Star Trek

748
00:33:02.940 --> 00:33:05.220
always tells you that it surpassed by going to the middle of the

749
00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:08.339
20th century because that's our past, you know?

750
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:12.420
And so to sell it to the audience's past, you know, so, you know

751
00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:13.680
Castillo's.

752
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:14.519
I love those episodes.

753
00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:15.599
Let's not pretend that, right?

754
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:18.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. type travel episodes.

755
00:33:18.059 --> 00:33:20.700
But, you know, look at Rachel's hair.

756
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.220
It's sort of fabulous.

757
00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:28.680
She went straight out of dynasty, was she?

758
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:34.619
Yeah, where she headed past Mr. Mott, you know, just before coming

759
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:36.599
back to the Enterprise Sea, I think, probably.

760
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:40.440
And, um, and, you know, Castillo's like a good old, all American

761
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:42.359
boy, you know, with blue eyes.

762
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:44.099
Incredible blue eyes.

763
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:50.099
I really like the fact that the premise of this episode, which is

764
00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:54.000
quite complex, can be boiled down to a single sentence, and it's a

765
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:57.900
line that Guidance says, and that is, this is not how things are

766
00:33:57.900 --> 00:33:58.440
supposed to be.

767
00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:04.500
And and the the dramatic way they get out of that idea of of

768
00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:09.239
asking them to commit suicide of um, of Tashi R realising that

769
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:10.679
she's dead in the other time.

770
00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:13.860
Like, they drive a lot from that very simple idea.

771
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:15.119
Yeah.

772
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:23.099
But again, the, like, Picard, in a way, isn't just doing this, and

773
00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:24.960
we discover that in this scene here.

774
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:30.780
And I really like how fantastically, Stuart underplays this.

775
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:33.000
You know, like he barely opens his mouth.

776
00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:35.639
He's whispering, so he's not overheard by all of the people around

777
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:36.420
him and stuff.

778
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.320
But there's a solid practical reason why he gets them to go back.

779
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:44.699
It's not just because, you know, the timeline or whatever.

780
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:49.320
It's because he needs them to sacrifice themselves to stop this

781
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:50.820
war because we're going to lose.

782
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.059
I'll say, sod off.

783
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.559
I'm not doing that Well, um, yeah, interestingly, you could

784
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:02.940
literally um, cut this into DS 96. even how this is lit.

785
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:06.840
But you could have a scene featuring Picard saying we're losing

786
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.019
the war in D9 series 6 and you could just rip it out of this

787
00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:10.260
episode.

788
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:11.159
Yeah, yeah.

789
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:12.539
The similarities.

790
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:14.039
I just think it's really interesting.

791
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.960
I, uh, yeah, I think maybe you're right.

792
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:21.420
I think that what happens is that they discover that this is an

793
00:35:21.420 --> 00:35:24.360
exciting way to do Star Trek and then they when they have their

794
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:28.199
own show that no one's watching and that no one will be angry at

795
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:28.920
them about.

796
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:30.179
It takes a long time, though.

797
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:30.719
Oh, yeah, yeah.

798
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:33.780
You know, they have to go through series Wild with all of those

799
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:36.719
TNG knockoffs. they have to go for all these hoops to get where

800
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:37.500
they want to go to.

801
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:38.940
But yeah.

802
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:43.500
You can't make a quick change in Star Trek, can you?

803
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:44.820
It's like tentative steps.

804
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

805
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:49.199
Or you just like go off the air for a long period of time and then

806
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.739
a whole group of other people take it over, which is another good

807
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:53.579
way to do it, I think.

808
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:56.159
Oh, look, they're looking at each other longingly again.

809
00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:57.119
Oh, it's lovely.

810
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:01.800
I should have thought Tasha Yah didn't have characterisation

811
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:03.780
anything like this in series one.

812
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.639
Oh, in fact, there was another quote where Denise Crosby said she

813
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.280
was astonished at how good the script was for this.

814
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:14.820
So that was basically her, you know, saying how terrible series

815
00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:15.360
one was.

816
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.400
Yeah, well, it was.

817
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:18.659
It was, yeah.

818
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:24.780
I love how there's that thing where she starts to say you're going

819
00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:28.920
to be, you know, you've got more ships and shields and whatever.

820
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:29.699
Do you know what I mean?

821
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:32.820
Like you'll probably win the battle for these reasons and then she

822
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:36.300
just tails off because she knows that it's absurd and futile and

823
00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:37.440
just says you'll be fine.

824
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:40.199
I think that's incredibly gray.

825
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:46.860
I think we should take a moment to admire Captain Garrett one last

826
00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:50.400
time because she's about to get a massive bit of shrapnel in her

827
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:50.579
head.

828
00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:52.199
Yeah, yeah.

829
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:53.280
I just wouldn't see.

830
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.639
I want a job that's not at a console.

831
00:36:56.699 --> 00:36:59.280
Can I work the ship's arboretum or something?

832
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:00.179
Those rocks.

833
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:00.599
I know.

834
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:05.039
So clearly all of the consoles are packed with rocks.

835
00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:06.000
Is that what's happening?

836
00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:07.199
Like they're...

837
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:09.420
I figure, well, they're weighted down for some reason.

838
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:11.880
I don't know. with just rocks.

839
00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:14.400
It is super weird, isn't it?

840
00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:19.079
And shards, like they just stuff them with rocks and knives. as

841
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.059
we're about to see as the camera pans down.

842
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:25.739
Oh, that's very graphic for Star Trek.

843
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:26.219
Yeah.

844
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:30.300
And the fact that that saw us into an advert on transmission.

845
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:31.139
Yeah.

846
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:34.500
Okay, so in production terms, okay.

847
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:38.699
The idea of having those rocks in the consoles is to, you know, to

848
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:41.039
make it look very dramatic when things are happening.

849
00:37:41.099 --> 00:37:44.519
But, you know, you're one of why no one in a production just said

850
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:48.780
well, yeah, but it doesn't make any sense. be wrong.

851
00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:49.800
Who cares?

852
00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:50.699
It looks dramatic.

853
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:52.079
We'll just go with it, you know?

854
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:55.800
You know, like I actually literally went with it for 30 years and

855
00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:01.380
didn't actually realise until you brought it up that it was just

856
00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:02.820
like, why are they full of rocks?

857
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:04.079
Very bizarre.

858
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:04.739
Yeah.

859
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:06.000
Yeah.

860
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:08.880
Oh, we go.

861
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:12.659
So he is still...

862
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:13.380
Sorry, go on.

863
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.340
No call?

864
00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:15.599
No, no, no, I've got nothing.

865
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:19.019
Oh, well, I was going to say we've lost Garrett now, so we've lost

866
00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:22.559
our strong captain. and it's down to the 1st officer to see us

867
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:23.219
into the rift.

868
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:24.840
He's not even the 1st officer.

869
00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:25.199
Is he?

870
00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:27.119
He's just like the con officer or something like that.

871
00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:29.219
Look at the how blue his eyes are.

872
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.800
He's a terribly handsome man.

873
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:36.900
I think he's in something, but I never know.

874
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.960
This was the only television I was watching in the 1990s.

875
00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:40.980
This is all we have.

876
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:44.880
They have a, they have an incredibly sort of chased kiss now with

877
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:45.539
no tongue.

878
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:47.159
That's very Star Trek as well.

879
00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:49.800
I love this kiss though.

880
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:52.739
This is a little tearing up moment for me.

881
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:58.920
I think, just, again, look, look, they're so awkward.

882
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:03.480
You know, they're so incredibly awkward and they look at one

883
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:03.719
another.

884
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:04.380
This is real.

885
00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:06.000
Because, you know, we've all been here.

886
00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:07.260
We've had that 1st kiss.

887
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:08.639
It is awkward, isn't it?

888
00:39:08.699 --> 00:39:10.440
You're like, oh, should I, is it you?

889
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:13.500
I don't know. they're going for it.

890
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:16.800
I don't really want to see tongues. you know, like, I don't want

891
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:17.400
to see tongues.

892
00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:18.420
That was nice.

893
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:19.800
I bought that.

894
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.820
I mean, I don't really, I can't really remember in discovery, but

895
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:26.460
I figure, I think you see more than tongues nowadays, don't you?

896
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:27.719
It's all a bit steamy, isn't it?

897
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:29.099
Yeah, I think they're rude in discovering.

898
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:29.400
I think.

899
00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:33.119
Um, Yeah, they bone.

900
00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:35.340
They said goodbye for the 2nd time.

901
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.380
I think they're gonna say goodbye for the 3rd time soon.

902
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:40.199
Yeah, yeah. that's when they crash into something, isn't it?

903
00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:40.980
Like, yeah.

904
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:42.000
Oh, here we go.

905
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:42.480
Here we go.

906
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:47.280
Oh, this sequence with Tashiar and Dinan where she says, Tasha

907
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:49.860
you're not supposed to be here, you're supposed to be dead.

908
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.739
Could you imagine somebody saying those words to you?

909
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:53.579
Yeah.

910
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:54.960
I think too.

911
00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:59.219
What's super interesting is that I think that the assumption was

912
00:39:59.219 --> 00:40:02.519
when she turns up in series 2 that she'd always been there.

913
00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:05.760
So she doesn't appear.

914
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:09.599
We don't see her arrive on the Enterprise and everyone knows her

915
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.199
already.

916
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:13.980
And so the assumption is that 10 forward has always been there, but

917
00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:16.739
we've never seen it before and Guynan's always been on board.

918
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:21.599
But what they get to do, the, you know, they get to play on the

919
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.739
fact that this is, you know, that those 2 scenes, that one where

920
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:28.619
she was looking unnerved and then this one where she sort of tells

921
00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:29.280
it like it is.

922
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.099
Those are the only 2 scenes that those characters have ever had

923
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:32.519
together.

924
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:36.059
And so they get to sort of retcon it and say, no, Gynan came on

925
00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:37.860
board the ship after Tasha died.

926
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:39.659
And it's just convenient.

927
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:40.199
Yeah.

928
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:43.920
They had a refit of the ship in series two, episode one.

929
00:40:43.980 --> 00:40:45.179
Your favourite.

930
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:46.619
Of course.

931
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:49.980
In fact, it's an interesting series to episode one, the child

932
00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:50.820
because they make a lot of changes.

933
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.019
It's terrible.

934
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.019
Yeah, it's really awful.

935
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.659
Did you see the captain's locked there?

936
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:58.320
It's just numbers.

937
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:00.420
He's just sitting there going...

938
00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:04.380
It's a haunted look on Denise's Crosby's face now as she walks in

939
00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:05.159
like...

940
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:07.619
And she's like, I'm supposed to be dead.

941
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.320
And I like the fact that Picard isn't really angry.

942
00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:13.079
He just says, oh, she chose to share that information with you.

943
00:41:13.139 --> 00:41:14.760
I think he's on board now, isn't he?

944
00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:16.440
I love that.

945
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.199
She thought it was necessary to tell you that.

946
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:23.519
It's really, like, he's a little bit annoyed.

947
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:29.340
And it is only when, um, like when she makes, look how, like, he's

948
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:32.039
sort of shattered and and he doesn't make eye contact with her

949
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:33.719
when he tells her to sit down or anything.

950
00:41:33.780 --> 00:41:35.219
It's so good.

951
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.260
Even the what did she say to you?

952
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:41.219
You know, it's like he knows that Guynan must have told her this.

953
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:42.059
It's so good.

954
00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:45.179
The lighting in this scene.

955
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:48.420
Why isn't the show always lit as well?

956
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:49.559
It's so dramatic.

957
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:55.920
Well, it's, I, you know, I think it's actually a little bit too.

958
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:57.420
I know, I see, I don't mind people.

959
00:41:57.539 --> 00:41:59.699
See, I'd want to turn the fucking lights on if I was doing some

960
00:41:59.699 --> 00:41:59.940
work.

961
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:00.840
Do you know what I mean?

962
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:01.860
Like, what's he doing?

963
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.079
Just sitting there in the dark, for God's sake.

964
00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:05.099
Like what's going on there?

965
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:08.699
It is a dramatic TV.

966
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:09.960
Yeah, drama.

967
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:16.079
There's a little bit of warmth here from him, but it is so

968
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.019
underplayed compared to what he's normally like.

969
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:20.760
And he's not jovial, you know.

970
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:26.400
Okay, I very need to quickly to remind you of a moment in Hide and

971
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:30.900
Q in series one between this pair where Q puts her in the penalty

972
00:42:30.900 --> 00:42:36.360
box on the bridge and he's like, you know, Tasha, you can cry when

973
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:40.380
you're in the penalty box and then she goes, oh, if you weren't my

974
00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:41.039
caption.

975
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:42.480
Oh, yuck.

976
00:42:43.019 --> 00:42:45.719
They've come a long way since then.

977
00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:51.539
I'll take this level of warmth over that.

978
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:52.440
Thank you very much.

979
00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:00.059
This is what they're talking about here, the sacrifice committing

980
00:43:00.059 --> 00:43:01.199
suicide for history.

981
00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:05.159
It's a big weighty ideas and Star Trek isn't afraid to play about

982
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:06.179
with these kind of ideas.

983
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.420
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

984
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:13.980
There's a little bit of a kind of unreality about it, and I don't

985
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:16.079
know, maybe it's just because I'm a sort of comfortable middle

986
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.420
class person who's never risked my life to do anything.

987
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:22.380
Um, and like I don't know what war is like or anything like that.

988
00:43:22.739 --> 00:43:27.420
But I cannot believe you're doing a Star Trek commentary, you're

989
00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:29.460
saying there's a little bit of unreality, isn't it?

990
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:31.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

991
00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:34.199
But but I do think they do their best to sell it.

992
00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:39.239
Like, she, you know, she's going to die anyway, but she can help

993
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:41.639
and that will be meaningful.

994
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.420
Like she can go out and they'll wreck it later. spoilers.

995
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.179
He gets to make the choice instead of evil.

996
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:50.460
She's just flung across a set.

997
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.079
Like, well, guess get rid of her, you know?

998
00:43:52.139 --> 00:43:55.139
Like, I think it was intended to be shocking and random.

999
00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:57.960
Like, because a death like that of a major character would

1000
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.960
normally be this centrepiece of the episode, but it kind of, it

1001
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.320
has to go on hold so the stupid action can take place in that

1002
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:05.460
dreadful episode.

1003
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:08.940
Do you remember that dramatic red blob of blood?

1004
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:10.739
about that today.

1005
00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:12.719
And it looks so unrealistic.

1006
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:15.119
Look, there's a jellyfish on her face.

1007
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:18.900
It was Sharpie, but it's like a little, it's very weird.

1008
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:21.420
But here she gets to make a choice.

1009
00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:24.599
She gets to be a hero and, you know, like, if you're going to go

1010
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.599
out in TV terms, that's the way to go, right?

1011
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:31.860
Yeah, it is them kind of fixing the narrative, isn't it?

1012
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.460
But, I mean, Garrett says that heaps of them didn't want to slip

1013
00:44:35.460 --> 00:44:37.980
out during a fight, you know, heaps of them want to go back.

1014
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:40.320
You know, it's not like that.

1015
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:43.619
That is a dreadful old Star Trek cliche where they're like, oh

1016
00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:45.000
we're going into war.

1017
00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:48.360
Anyone who doesn't want to go, step backwards and nobody does.

1018
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:50.760
I want it to be an episode where everybody set us back.

1019
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:52.320
I go, nah, not me.

1020
00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:54.420
And it's that, I'm going to miss my loved ones.

1021
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.420
It's kind of like, it's 22 years, for God's sake, they'll be

1022
00:44:57.420 --> 00:44:57.719
fine.

1023
00:44:57.780 --> 00:45:01.019
Don't people sort of live for long periods of time, you know, like

1024
00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:01.800
goodness sake.

1025
00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:04.679
Do you know what the most egregious example of that is?

1026
00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:05.519
Well, I just said that.

1027
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:09.659
It's in Voyages of 37s where they've got a choice to go down and

1028
00:45:09.659 --> 00:45:11.460
be on this wonderful planet.

1029
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:15.179
And Janeway goes, right, anyone who wants to go, go to the cargo

1030
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:16.500
bay, and I'll see you off.

1031
00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:19.380
And she's outside the, outside the door, going, oh, my God, how

1032
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:19.800
many?

1033
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:20.519
They're all going to be in there.

1034
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:21.960
I'm going to lose my crew.

1035
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.699
And no fucker's in there at all.

1036
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:25.980
But God, say, I would have been the 1st one in there.

1037
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:26.820
Get away that long.

1038
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:28.980
I don't know.

1039
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:30.599
What was the Wi-Fi like on that planet?

1040
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:33.900
It was a Wi-Fi, like a Voyager.

1041
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:35.340
It's gel packs, isn't it?

1042
00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:39.000
When cheese can bring your ship down, you're in trouble.

1043
00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:43.199
Oh god, they dumped that pretty quick, didn't they?

1044
00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:44.400
Here we go.

1045
00:45:44.460 --> 00:45:48.719
Let's make sure that history never forgets the name Enterprise.

1046
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:49.800
There we go.

1047
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.480
That's a very famous line, that.

1048
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:52.079
Yeah.

1049
00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:56.039
He's also not doing his usual fruity RSC delivery as well.

1050
00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:59.579
You know, and he's all a bit more clipped and a bit, he's a very

1051
00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:01.800
leisurely battle sequence.

1052
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:06.840
He does have a moment earlier in the episode where he goes, not

1053
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:08.760
good enough, but it's good enough.

1054
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1055
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:11.159
But even that's not his normal delivery.

1056
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.519
It's not, you know, everything is a little bit more tight.

1057
00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:16.559
His throat is tighter or something.

1058
00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:19.260
Like everything's a little bit more clipped and urgent and stuff.

1059
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.360
I'm gonna make a confession.

1060
00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:27.360
I don't think there is an urgent action sequence at all in the

1061
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:29.460
next generation until generations.

1062
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:32.400
Oh, what about Roger Dana, though?

1063
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:34.260
What's that?

1064
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:35.820
Oh, you know, the hunter.

1065
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.559
He runs through the ship and stuff.

1066
00:46:37.619 --> 00:46:39.239
No, there isn't really.

1067
00:46:39.300 --> 00:46:40.920
Oh, I meant, I meant like a space battle.

1068
00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:42.000
Oh no, no, no.

1069
00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:43.500
Well, like at this point...

1070
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:46.440
Not even in best of both Wales, because what they did, they

1071
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.920
redress that in emissary and it's a fantastic opening sequence

1072
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.440
emissary where they're attacking the board ship.

1073
00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.440
Um, and that's why that, that, were they arrive late?

1074
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.920
Battle of Wolf 359, they couldn't afford to arrive at the battle.

1075
00:46:58.980 --> 00:46:59.579
We didn't see it.

1076
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:05.760
But, like, I think this shot where the Klingon ships, like, wing

1077
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:09.719
now here comes into shot and stuff over the top of the, like, it's

1078
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:12.900
sort of a cliche, but it's all done over kind of stock footage

1079
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:17.159
that they have of the, of the enterprise and stuff like that.

1080
00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:21.539
There's one scene where the where the model and it's all emotional

1081
00:47:21.539 --> 00:47:24.900
controlled cameras, you know, and the model kind of turns around

1082
00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:26.579
and starts to sort of come up.

1083
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:30.059
I'm gesticulating, demonstrating it for the podcast.

1084
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:35.880
You've seen this, like that shot, how many times have we seen that

1085
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:36.239
shot?

1086
00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:39.539
That explosion, I reckon, that actual explosion.

1087
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:41.099
So they can't afford it at this point.

1088
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:43.920
They're still having a go.

1089
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:45.360
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1090
00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:48.900
They make up for it with rocks with rocks in the things.

1091
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:52.980
Riker is about to get a knife in the head because it's rocks and

1092
00:47:52.980 --> 00:47:53.460
knives.

1093
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:57.000
Well, they also seem to pack those consoles with explosives as

1094
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:57.239
well.

1095
00:47:57.300 --> 00:47:57.960
It's very old.

1096
00:47:58.019 --> 00:47:59.820
If I works there.

1097
00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:01.380
I just wouldn't want to go anywhere near them.

1098
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:04.619
Yeah, like earth something, for God's sake, just earth.

1099
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:06.960
I'll be the counsellor, all right?

1100
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:08.579
Don't want to go near a pad.

1101
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.840
I actually quite like Geordie in this too.

1102
00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:15.239
He gets to do some urgent shouting.

1103
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:18.539
And there's something really great about this, which they would

1104
00:48:18.539 --> 00:48:21.360
never really properly have thought of in original trek, which is

1105
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:27.059
just that thing there where he can stand in the in engineering and

1106
00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:29.880
deliver urgent dialogue and it can just be heard by all the other

1107
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:30.780
characters.

1108
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.460
I think that's sort of actually pretty cool.

1109
00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:34.139
Here he is.

1110
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:34.980
A question for you.

1111
00:48:34.980 --> 00:48:35.880
Walking up to the camera.

1112
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:39.000
How do you feel about the decapitation of Wesley Crusher?

1113
00:48:39.059 --> 00:48:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

1114
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:42.960
This was an original, this was originally going to be a feature

1115
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:47.099
that they couldn't afford because Will Wheaton's mother objected

1116
00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:48.659
to them decapitating him or something.

1117
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:53.940
They just, yeah, they didn't have the money for, you know, an

1118
00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:55.800
elaborate action sequence.

1119
00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:59.400
So they just, they basically cut straight to Riker's death.

1120
00:48:59.460 --> 00:48:59.880
Yeah.

1121
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:03.420
But imagine seeing the decapitation of Wesley Crusher.

1122
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:04.619
Yeah, yeah.

1123
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:05.699
Oh, here he goes.

1124
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:12.119
A whole heap of rocks there. a knife came out of a flew out of

1125
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:12.420
the.

1126
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:13.860
I think a rock here or something.

1127
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:17.099
But I like the fact that they cut to him dead on the floor and

1128
00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:20.760
they don't clear up the rocks to like, you know, to get over the

1129
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:22.559
awkward explanation as to why they're there.

1130
00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:24.539
They're just falling in focus, aren't they?

1131
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:27.960
Of course it's Picard.

1132
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:29.760
There has to now take the...

1133
00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:30.420
It's on fire.

1134
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:31.739
There's fire in the foreground.

1135
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:32.519
Here we go.

1136
00:49:32.579 --> 00:49:35.880
Don't move, just stay still, enterprise.

1137
00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:38.039
I mean, if you think about it carefully, yeah.

1138
00:49:38.099 --> 00:49:39.179
It's the Klingons, right?

1139
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:41.940
So they're all about self-sacrifice.

1140
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.059
If they wanted to, they literally could have just like barged into

1141
00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:47.639
that ship, you know, crashed into it and got rid of it very

1142
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:47.880
quickly.

1143
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:48.840
I suppose.

1144
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:51.000
Oh here we go.

1145
00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:55.920
And now we're back to normal and there's look, there's Deanna in

1146
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.719
the background looking concerned. always back.

1147
00:49:57.780 --> 00:49:59.400
I love Tiana.

1148
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:03.420
Oh no, I was going to say, that's not the end, is it?

1149
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:05.039
No, we have a scene with Guyana, don't we?

1150
00:50:05.099 --> 00:50:06.420
She's like, is everything okay up there?

1151
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:07.860
Yeah, yeah.

1152
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.980
I was actually wondering what that scene was doing.

1153
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.260
I was wondering what that scene was doing.

1154
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:20.519
And I think what it's doing is that she's the only one who knows

1155
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:22.079
that something has happened.

1156
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:26.519
Like, she's the only one who's affected by any of this because no

1157
00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:32.280
one else can look at that woman's hair that the waitress has the

1158
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:34.320
most fabulous 80s nylon air.

1159
00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:36.420
But, um, like she's the only...

1160
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:39.659
That's always been like a thing about her species, isn't it?

1161
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:41.699
they can kind of sense things.

1162
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.400
There's that that thing with her cue.

1163
00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:47.820
Yeah, that they've got a long history and that she lives a long

1164
00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:48.059
time.

1165
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:50.940
She talks about how, you know, 100 husbands or something at one

1166
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:51.179
point.

1167
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:54.480
Like in the suggestion that she's lived, you know, the entirety of

1168
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:56.880
TOS and next generation.

1169
00:50:56.940 --> 00:51:00.659
Um, but I like that about her.

1170
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.039
Well, but I mean, here the idea is that these events have to have

1171
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:08.219
affected someone and what effect do they have?

1172
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:11.760
She's never met Tasha, but she goes and sits down with Jordan and

1173
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:13.440
asks him about her.

1174
00:51:13.500 --> 00:51:16.739
And I think that's actually really quite good, you know.

1175
00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:18.179
It's a nice tagline.

1176
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:21.480
But I tell you what, that is a packed episode, isn't it?

1177
00:51:21.539 --> 00:51:22.320
Yeah, yeah.

1178
00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:29.820
Yeah, it's, it, it, it, Star Trek, the Next Generation tends to be

1179
00:51:29.820 --> 00:51:35.760
very stately. and very talky and very kind of moving.

1180
00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:37.260
Paceless.

1181
00:51:37.380 --> 00:51:37.679
Yeah.

1182
00:51:37.739 --> 00:51:39.119
Yeah, I guess so.

1183
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:39.659
I guess so.

1184
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:44.280
But, um, you know, it's also ludicrous high concepts and stuff

1185
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:44.639
like that.

1186
00:51:44.699 --> 00:51:47.699
Like, I love Star Trek the Next Generation, and like, I

1187
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:52.079
acknowledge that it isn't necessarily the best of, um, it's not

1188
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:56.760
necessarily the best of 90 Star Trek, um, but it is my sentimental

1189
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:58.019
favourite.

1190
00:51:58.139 --> 00:52:01.980
And like I love those characters far, far more than they have any

1191
00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:03.480
right to be loved, I have to say.

1192
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:07.079
I cannot believe that you would point at this episode and call it

1193
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.980
absurd high concept when you've already mentioned Genesis in this

1194
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:11.340
episode.

1195
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:17.639
Okay, and I think we've, no, we didn't mention rascals, but I'm

1196
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:20.099
mentioning it now when let's turn them all into kids.

1197
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:21.780
Oh, great.

1198
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:25.199
I mean, I could just throw I could just literally throw my finger

1199
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:25.800
in any direction.

1200
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:26.579
What about the game?

1201
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:30.780
where someone tries to bring down the Federation with a computer

1202
00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:33.719
like a terrible 3D. terrible computer game.

1203
00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:34.440
So good.

1204
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:35.820
Very funny, though.

1205
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:39.659
But that, that for me, I think I said this at the beginning

1206
00:52:39.659 --> 00:52:43.619
episode, I'm going to say at the end, that is a top 10 across the

1207
00:52:43.619 --> 00:52:45.059
franchise episode, I think.

1208
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:49.320
I think everything's firing on like 4 cylinders now on.

1209
00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:50.219
Yeah.

1210
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:52.920
And it's one of those things where, you know, it's written by a

1211
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:55.440
committee and you just expect that it's going to be dreadful.

1212
00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:57.059
It's that sort of thing where you look.

1213
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:00.840
I imagine watching it for the 1st time in seeing all those, you

1214
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:05.099
know, story credit by and telly play by and thinking this is just

1215
00:53:05.099 --> 00:53:08.940
going to be an absolute kind of huge fucking mess.

1216
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:11.760
And it absolutely comes together.

1217
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.139
It looks great.

1218
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:14.579
The stakes are high.

1219
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:20.340
It fixes a weird, a weird choice that they made in series one.

1220
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.679
You know, it's really, really great.

1221
00:53:22.739 --> 00:53:27.059
The only thing is they will fuck it up in series 5. they'll ruin

1222
00:53:27.059 --> 00:53:32.579
that ending Oh, with Romulan Tashiar coming back.

1223
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:33.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1224
00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:34.380
I think as well.

1225
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:36.539
I don't know if it's the premise.

1226
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.519
I don't know if it's because there's another enterprise.

1227
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:41.519
I don't know if it's because of how it's directed or shot.

1228
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.400
Something's different about the performance in this.

1229
00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:45.000
Everything.

1230
00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:48.000
Everybody is upping their game a bit in this.

1231
00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:53.579
Um, And then I think if you, what's next, the offsprings next.

1232
00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:55.739
And, you know, which is a good episode.

1233
00:53:56.099 --> 00:54:00.239
But I'd only say, you know, Spiners up in his game in that one and

1234
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:03.300
everyone's back to delivering their made for TV performances, you

1235
00:54:03.300 --> 00:54:03.480
know?

1236
00:54:09.539 --> 00:54:11.460
It's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode.

1237
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:14.940
And so this time, I'm going to press the button on untitled Star

1238
00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:18.599
Trek Project.com slash randomiser.

1239
00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:23.280
And I thought that we might pick an episode from Joe's favourite

1240
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:25.619
Star Trek series.

1241
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:29.400
Now, I don't know if you've ever mentioned this in the time that

1242
00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:32.639
I've known you, Joe, but what is your favourite Star Trek series?

1243
00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:36.900
It's very, very rare for me to express an opinion.

1244
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.480
So it's highly unlikely that I have.

1245
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:45.119
Um, it's Deep Space 9, which I think is, uh, is my 2nd favourite

1246
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.219
television show of all time.

1247
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.079
Doctor Who's number one?

1248
00:54:49.139 --> 00:54:50.219
Space 9 is number two.

1249
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:53.519
And there's a 100000000 reasons for that, which we'll go into as

1250
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:58.679
we talk about DS9 episodes, but I'll sum it up very quickly with

1251
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:06.300
sophisticated storytelling, an incredible secondary guest cast.

1252
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:13.260
Um, Just like, asks hard questions about the things that Gene

1253
00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:14.699
Roddenby wants to talk about.

1254
00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:19.079
Um, you know, sort of examines the Roddenborough universe in a

1255
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:20.280
really compelling way.

1256
00:55:20.340 --> 00:55:25.139
Um, the effects come on in leaps and bounds as we go through, the

1257
00:55:25.139 --> 00:55:30.599
set pieces get way more uh, stylish and more exciting, um, and

1258
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:35.099
come the latter half of DS9. 4 through to 7.

1259
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:39.300
I think that's the strongest run of episodes in any Star Trek

1260
00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:39.719
show.

1261
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:44.820
It's sophisticated, it's exciting, and it's beautifully acted.

1262
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:46.139
There we go.

1263
00:55:46.260 --> 00:55:46.980
Excellent.

1264
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:48.300
Okay, all right.

1265
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:50.880
Those all sound like convincing reasons to me.

1266
00:55:50.940 --> 00:55:53.159
So that means we're just going to get something like move along

1267
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:55.860
home or if we should get the horses.

1268
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.639
Down, 2, 4.

1269
00:55:56.820 --> 00:55:58.199
Oh my god.

1270
00:55:58.260 --> 00:55:59.940
Can we get moving on homeward, doing it, all right?

1271
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:01.019
Okay, all right.

1272
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:03.000
That's a solid commitment.

1273
00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:07.440
Now, as usual, we can re-roll if we get something really tiresome

1274
00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:10.860
until we're sort of super embarrassed by the whole process and

1275
00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:11.280
stop.

1276
00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:12.599
What did you want to say?

1277
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:14.699
I was just going to say push the button.

1278
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.860
All right, okay, here goes.

1279
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:17.460
Here goes.

1280
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:23.760
Uh, and you can't see this because I can't see it all.

1281
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.099
Shut it, mirror.

1282
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:29.280
Oh, not a typical one.

1283
00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:31.380
It's a mirror episode.

1284
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:35.340
Yeah, it's the one with the weird gay subplot between Wharf and

1285
00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:35.820
Garak.

1286
00:56:36.539 --> 00:56:39.300
I mean, that's an interesting start.

1287
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:41.159
Well, what do you think?

1288
00:56:41.219 --> 00:56:44.699
Oh, I tell you what, roll it again and then we'll choose between

1289
00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:45.599
the two, all right?

1290
00:56:45.659 --> 00:56:46.679
Oh, really?

1291
00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:47.460
Is that allowed?

1292
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:49.079
I don't know if that's all right.

1293
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:50.460
You had 3 roles for mine.

1294
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:51.840
Yeah, yeah.

1295
00:56:51.900 --> 00:56:54.539
But, you know, we just moved along.

1296
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.440
All right, here goes.

1297
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:58.079
Paradise.

1298
00:56:58.139 --> 00:56:59.760
Oh my.

1299
00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:00.539
Oh, yes.

1300
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:03.300
Oh, okay, so that's a little quieter.

1301
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:04.260
That's series 2.

1302
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:08.699
It's the one with the crushed spaceship with the Technophobes

1303
00:57:08.699 --> 00:57:12.119
where Cisco and O'Brien are there and Alexis, who's essentially

1304
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:12.780
Catherine J.

1305
00:57:12.780 --> 00:57:14.159
Wick, because she sounds just like her.

1306
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:17.460
She's basically running a coal where they're not allowed to use

1307
00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:18.059
technology.

1308
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:21.599
Do you remember Cisco gets shoved in a sweatbox?

1309
00:57:21.659 --> 00:57:22.920
The box.

1310
00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:24.599
Yes, I think I remember the box.

1311
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:26.820
Okay, well, okay, I feel like it should be one of these 2 because

1312
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:28.139
they're both good episodes to talk about.

1313
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:30.659
Well, I don't know.

1314
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:32.219
We did re-roll.

1315
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:33.420
Go for it.

1316
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:35.219
Do you want to do paradise?

1317
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:35.820
I don't know.

1318
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:36.780
No, no, no.

1319
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:37.980
Let's roll it one.

1320
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:39.119
Let's make 3 old default.

1321
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:39.480
Come on.

1322
00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:42.659
We have to go with this one, right?

1323
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:45.420
Yeah, this is the one Oh, God, it's gonna be like...

1324
00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:47.340
Unless it's really terrible. profit and lace.

1325
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:49.199
No, it's going to be...

1326
00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:51.719
Let's hear who is without sin. if it's that.

1327
00:57:51.780 --> 00:57:52.860
Oh my god.

1328
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:55.019
At least that has Vanessa Williams in it.

1329
00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:55.739
All right, here goes.

1330
00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:58.980
It's profit and lay.

1331
00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:06.000
We're not doing transphobic deep say sign episode on our 1st deep

1332
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:07.920
say sign episode, so we're rolling again.

1333
00:58:08.699 --> 00:58:09.119
One more time.

1334
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:10.800
Profit and lace.

1335
00:58:10.860 --> 00:58:12.420
Are you embarrassing the process yet?

1336
00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:13.019
I'm not.

1337
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.179
Yeah, Melora.

1338
00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:16.619
Oh, no, roll again.

1339
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:19.320
That's got Dr. Grace Holloway from Dr. Who in it.

1340
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:20.159
It does.

1341
00:58:20.219 --> 00:58:21.000
Okay, one more time.

1342
00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:21.840
Okay, number five.

1343
00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:24.000
The House of Quark.

1344
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:26.579
Oh, let's do that.

1345
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:27.480
That's run more.

1346
00:58:27.539 --> 00:58:29.400
That's a terrific comedy.

1347
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:32.460
Beginning of series 3 where the show is pulling its shit

1348
00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:32.880
together.

1349
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:34.199
Like TNG.

1350
00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:35.340
Yeah, yeah.

1351
00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:39.300
Yeah, it has the exchange.

1352
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:43.380
I'm so sorry, I'm talking about the episode already. where she

1353
00:58:43.380 --> 00:58:46.079
just says to him, she kind of leans in and says, if you don't take

1354
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:51.300
your hand off my knee, I will shatter every bone in your body.

1355
00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:53.579
It's so funny.

1356
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:54.360
Let's do that.

1357
00:58:54.420 --> 00:58:56.519
Okay, all right, brilliant.

1358
00:58:56.579 --> 00:58:57.420
The House of Choir.

1359
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:01.920
All right, so we will see you next time with Deep Space 9's House

1360
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:02.579
of Guark.

1361
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:03.960
So you can watch it before then.

1362
00:59:04.019 --> 00:59:05.159
Salivating.

1363
00:59:14.940 --> 00:59:19.440
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1364
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:20.639
and Nathan Bottomley.

1365
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:24.659
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where

1366
00:59:24.659 --> 00:59:27.780
you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1367
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:31.739
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1368
00:59:31.739 --> 00:59:33.300
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1369
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:37.559
This episode was recorded on the 21st of September 2021 and

1370
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:39.179
released on the 5th of November.

1371
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:43.679
We'll see you next time for Deep Space 9s, the House of Quark.